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        <title>CDS Discussion</title>
        <description>Official Forums for the Confederation of Democratic Simulators</description>
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            <title>CDS Discussion</title>
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            <description>Official Forums for the Confederation of Democratic Simulators</description>
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        <pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:32:17 GMT</pubDate>
        <ttl>60</ttl>
        <item>
            <title>Events in CDS :: Re: Last Day of Snow Celebration: Saturday March 20! :: Reply by Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2738&amp;p=14438#p14438</link>
            <description><![CDATA[We will meet between noon and 1 pm SLT, at around 12:30 p.m. SecondLifeTime. <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2738</comments>
            <pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:27:26 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: CSDF Meeting 18 March 2pm SLT :: Author Patroklus Murakami</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2761&amp;p=14437#p14437</link>
            <description><![CDATA[The Citizens' Social Democratic Faction will hold a general meeting tomorrow. Our meetings are open to all.<br /><br />Thurs 18 March at 2pm SLT in the Al Andalus Alhambra<br /><br />Agenda<br />1. Ideas for legislation - RA size and any others<br />2. Expansion (including development of Sacromonte, other existing sims)<br />3. Defining Citizenship<br />4. Any other business]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Patroklus Murakami)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2761</comments>
            <pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:57:37 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2761&amp;p=14437#p14437</guid>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Re: Last Day of Snow Celebration: Saturday March 20! :: Reply by Keila Forager</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2738&amp;p=14436#p14436</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Has there been a definite decision yet on the time?]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Keila Forager)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2738</comments>
            <pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:52:58 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2738&amp;p=14436#p14436</guid>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Re: Music Events :: Reply by Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14435#p14435</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Thanks Rose.  When Winters asked me about playing I was not aware of this decision, and thought I was helping to keep cultural events active.  Since I told him he could play, maybe this one time he can play somewhere else in the CDS.  Then we can see about possible future events.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2759</comments>
            <pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:59:10 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14435#p14435</guid>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Re: Music Events :: Reply by Rose Springvale</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14434#p14434</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Please see this post re the AA Cultural Commissions decision re Winters events in AA. He has asked and asked to have his performances reinstated, but the citizens chose to seek others to play.<br /><!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2705">viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2705</a><!-- l --><br />Perhaps one of the other CDS venues is more appropriate.<br />I will be back in world on Friday.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2759</comments>
            <pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:58:08 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Re: Music Events :: Reply by Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14433#p14433</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Unfortunately, so far I have not been able to get the land permissions in Al Andalus in order to change the music stream for a music event in the Al Zahra Theatre, or to find anyone who could change the music stream for us.  In talking with Winters about this, he asked to reschedule for the next day, so now his live performance has been moved to:<br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Wednesday, March 17th at 7pm SLT</span>.<br /><br />For now the location is unknown, although he would still like to be able to perform in the Al Zahra Theatre.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2759</comments>
            <pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 03:13:43 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14433#p14433</guid>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Next meeting of the Portal/Forum Workgroup :: Author Keila Forager</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2760&amp;p=14432#p14432</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Will be on Friday the 19th at 1pm  slt.  I'll post a location when I get home this evening. You really want to be there !! <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />   <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalu">http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalu</a><!-- m --> ... e/240/16/2]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Keila Forager)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2760</comments>
            <pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:20:03 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: A New Community in the CDS :: Reply by Sylvia</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2599&amp;p=14431#p14431</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Hello, <br /><br />Maybe it's just a bad mood that I'm in today or recently, but I must say I am having severe doubts about joining the CDS after reading this thread.  I'm sure most of you don't realise how you sound, but this thread is just awful IMO.  <br /><br />Sonja is a recent new friend of mine so I realise that there is probably a lot of history or baggage going on here that I don't know about, but it's also clear to me that several of you have some real issues based on these comments.  Perhaps I'm just being naive and Sonja will turn out to be purest evil, but I think it much more likely that she isn't.  <br /><br />I'm sure we all have bad and good days and we all say things we don't mean sometimes, but I find most of this thread to be a way over-the-top reaction to a &quot;hurt&quot; that seemed completely unintentional to me.   <br /><br />Just to be clear ... to someone looking at this from the &quot;outside&quot; like me there is absolutely nothing out of order or wrong with what she posted in the original post.  I just take it as a wry remark about the CDS's notoriously bad communication efforts.  Is there someone here that is going to argue that the CDS has excellent communication and everyone is well aware of everything going on?  If so there are about a dozen threads on the front page to disprove that notion.  <br /><br />To me it's as if she posted a cookie recipe and you all started calling her Hitler or something.  It's so bizarely, strangely, <span style="font-style: italic">hateful</span> I just felt compelled to comment about it.  The things that Jamie says in particular are absolutely awful.  &quot;Accusatory&quot; ??? &quot;Finger pointing&quot; ????  How ironic to point a finger at someone and accuse them of that!   It seemed like a perfectly normal post to me.  <br /><br />My apologies if I'm wrong and Sonja has done all kinds of evil things that I'm not aware of but I don't understand you people at all today.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sylvia)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2599</comments>
            <pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 03:05:50 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2599&amp;p=14431#p14431</guid>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Music Events :: Author Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14430#p14430</link>
            <description><![CDATA[This Tuesday (March 16th) Winters Kanto will play his wonderful piano music *live* in the Al Zahra Theatre in beautiful Al Andalus Generalife, beginning at 8pm SLT.<br /><br />Here is the address:  <a href="http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalus%20Generalife/207/126/40" class="postlink">http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalus%20Generalife/207/126/40</a>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2759</comments>
            <pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 01:21:11 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2759&amp;p=14430#p14430</guid>
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            <title>General Discussion :: CDS on Twitter :: Author Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2758&amp;p=14429#p14429</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Now we can post about and follow events in the CDS on Twitter, even with a cell phone!<br />The address is:<br /><!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://twitter.com/SLCDSnews">http://twitter.com/SLCDSnews</a><!-- m --><br /><br />If you have a Twitter account, add <span style="font-weight: bold">SLCDSnews</span> to your resources. <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2758</comments>
            <pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 01:11:31 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2758&amp;p=14429#p14429</guid>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Warning re Beta Viewer :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2742&amp;p=14428#p14428</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Hehe Sylvia... I cannot argue with that. I'm sure that it is impossible to design a single UI that pleases <span style="font-style: italic">everybody</span>, and SL 2.0 is <span style="font-style: italic">definitely</span> not something made to please all...<br /><br />As a matter of fact, I had high hopes that <a href="http://imprudenceviewer.org" class="postlink">Imprudence</a> went ahead and implemented their vision of what an UI should look like — this was one of the pillars of that project, make a radically different UI (and fix inventory!!). Sadly, the team behind that is very small, and they are barely managing to keep up with keeping the features up to date... but my point was, if we had a <span style="font-style: italic">lot</span> of completely different UIs to choose from, people would be just using the one they liked best. The problem is that we're stuck with an UI designed in 2002 which has become &quot;familiar&quot; over the years. It's hard to imagine anything different. And that's also a reason why all third-party viewers are mostly stuck with it.<br /><br />For instance, I don't use Windows, but I rather liked the simplicity of Windows XP. Vista and Win 7 are way too confusing for someone who just uses that very occasionally. I'm used to Mac OS X, which in a decade, has not changed UIs at all. The <span style="font-style: italic">last</span> time it changed, with Mac OS X 10.0, it was a huge mess, and for years Mac old-timers grumbled and complained and refused to use the &quot;new&quot; UI, because they preferred the old one, which had things that even after a decade haven't been implemented yet (and very likely will never be). It's very hard to argue about the &quot;best&quot; UI. Something designed in 2002, even if outdated and full of bugs and inconsistencies, might be &quot;best&quot; if it's something that everybody is so familiar with that it becomes second nature; specially if the &quot;redesign&quot; just introduced new bugs, new inconsistencies, and possibly some lack of functionality...<br /><br />So, no, I won't argue <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2742</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:47:35 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2742&amp;p=14428#p14428</guid>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Warning re Beta Viewer :: Reply by Sylvia</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2742&amp;p=14427#p14427</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Hi Gwyn <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />I realise that Emerald and others will be basng their new versions off of the 2.0 viewer, so the &quot;split&quot; in regards capabilities to see web pays and so on will dissapear. You are certainly right about that problem gong away. <br /><br />I disagree that the UI is irrelevant though. I wish when people were talking about the viewer and whether they like it or not that they would separate issues of features from issues about the UI. having made the same mistake myself I can see how confusing it is to the whole argument. <br /><br />Personally what i'm hoping for is that the folks behind emerald see this and leave the UI alone while simply adding the same capabilities. The 2.0 UI is simply impossible for me. It makes building so difficult that it's almost not worth trying and gives me motion sickness after only a short time using it <br /><br />Several of us had a fun time testing out the media capabilities in the plats over the weekend when Pat put the eurovision contest on a prim, but if that UI is all that's available (I don't think it will be), then I'd have to seriously reconsider playing SL at all in anything other than a casual way. <br /><br />Almost every single thing in the old UI that I use regularly has been removed<br />or deprecated in the new UI. It's hard to overstate how bad that is and how annoying to the players that need the features the removal was.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sylvia)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2742</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:57:23 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2742&amp;p=14427#p14427</guid>
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            <title>Representative Assembly Discussion :: RA Town Hall Meeting 15 March 2010: Transcript - Part 2 ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2757&amp;p=14426#p14426</link>
            <description><![CDATA[[11:05] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: is this a public event? I don't see it on the calendar -</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: between now and then I will try to get this permission</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: it is a public event Kaseido</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't think i has been put on the calendar yet,</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: is there someplace else I should be looking for events other than the Google calendar?</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: ahh, ok</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: that does make planning hard <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: partly because I have not worked out this permissions issue</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I may have an access</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Kaseido, would you like to help with planning events?</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I will test</span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: Sonja, I'm under orders from my department chair not to volunteer for *anything* until the end of the semester - but let's talk in May <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: alright</span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I should leave now <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: we will do the best we can Kaseido</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: RL work is yelling at me lol</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: yes of course Sonja <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: right now I am working very hard for the CDS</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: see you <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: bye bye Lilith <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: bye</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: see you Lilith <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:09] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: well, my laundry beckons too - thank you all!</span><br />[11:10] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: alright Kaseido <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:10] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: thanks for being here with us</span><br />[11:10] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: it's my pleasure - thank youfor all your work!</span><br />[11:10] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: i will go too, i am still learning about things</span><br />[11:11] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: alright Frances <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:11] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: thank you everyone</span><br />[11:11] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: bye</span><br />[11:12] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: see you later folks <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /> think i might go shopping!</span><br />[11:13] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'm out too. See you all</span><br />[11:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: see you Patroklus!</span><br />[11:13] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: bye <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:13] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: see you soon, Pat <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (mikeloserevi)</author>
            <category>Representative Assembly Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=24&amp;t=2757</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:13:44 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2757&amp;p=14426#p14426</guid>
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            <title>Representative Assembly Discussion :: RA Town Hall Meeting 15 March 2010: Transcript - Part 1 ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2756&amp;p=14425#p14425</link>
            <description><![CDATA[[9:17] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Sonja <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hi Mikelo!</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Arria</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: we were wondering why it was so quiet at the other place</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we were waiting in AA lol</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Mikelo <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Lilith <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hi <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: oh, ups</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Well, was the Town Hall announced somewhere?</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Kaseido <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: hi Lilith!</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hi Kaseido!</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Kaseido <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: hi Arria</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: maybe at the calendar - not sure</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: possible</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: it was on the calendar - but no inworld announcements went out till just now</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: I'd been waiting around to see if it was a timezone issue, maybe <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I might have to go afk or poof suddenly as I´m waiting for a call</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: it's a regular schedule, but then we announce when it starts, too</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: here it's a nice place too</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: people tend to forget</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: myself included</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can start</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I only know about your daylight saving time because of my US hubby</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: maybe other people will join</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: does anyone has a topic to bring here?</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: don´t think the Lindens announced it this time</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Sylvia <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Sylvia <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: hello <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I was just asking for topics</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hi Sylvia!</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Hi Sonja <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: can't see yet</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: gimme a sec</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: np</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: any topic to open the discussion?</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´m curious about the rest of your team Sonja <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: maybe you could tell us about</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: about the executive team?</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: so far there is me, Sudane and you...</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: unless the SC decided against your being on the team -</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Object whispers</span>: mmmm..., tea!</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Imotali <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ah I see</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Imotali</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Hello Imotali</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: which I certainly hope they will support.</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: Hi everyone</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Hi Imotali!</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I have asked several others if they would like to be, and they have said no.</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I can´t see what should be wrong with me collecting litter</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: not a very powerful office lol</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: me either, lol</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: haha</span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I'm really glad you will do it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I thin it's jsut a technicality isn't it?</span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´d like too as I can´t walk across litter anyway hehe</span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: if anyone else wants to volunteer, please contact me or have them contact me.</span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yeah, I'm like that too</span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, we need volunteering ...</span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: but civil servants get paid <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: not a lot, I admit. But they get something.</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: that's true</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: well, you won´t get rich with that money hehe</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe I can restate it</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I know <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: if anybody would like to work for the CDS, please contact me <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I'm not a citizen still</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: maybe I have a topic</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: or i would volounteer for stuff like that maybe</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: great Sylvia, we can talk more after the meeting <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I am very interested by the dvelopment of the homestead sim Sacromonte</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: sure</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: doesn´t it count as a citizen to have a shop in AA?</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: usually you are the owner of the parcel where you have your shop</span><br />[9:29] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I am not sure for the commercial parcels that the last Executif had organized</span><br />[9:29] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: didn´t Rose say AA founded a group for the merchants in AA so they can become a citizen</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: before the merger</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the AA peopel have group citizenship or somethign right?</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: for the Market?</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: that's still being worked out, but I think many do, yes</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I thought so</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: everyone who has a booth there is citizen?</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: you were there also when Rose talked about it</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: on Friday?</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´ll have to read the transcript again</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we are working on the definition of the citizen</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: all inpus and experiences are welcome</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: inputs*</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: will you send a note when the workgroup is meeting?</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Hello Pat</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Pat <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´d be very interested to join you <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hi Pat</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hi everyone <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:33] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: hi Pat</span><br />[9:33] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I think, yes</span><br />[9:33] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Mikelo is in charge to organize the meeting</span><br />[9:33] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, I'll send group notices beforehand</span><br />[9:33] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: great <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: may we talk about Sacromonte or I am the only one to be interested by this topic?</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: aah, clocks changed in california? i wondered why i was an hour out!</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: Yes Sunday 14 March DST</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: didn´t time change in all US?</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: yep, I suspect that caught a bunch of us</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: (I understand now)</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: almost all -</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I thought the time doesn't change until 2:00 AM this evening</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: catches me every time <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: a lot of people do that - it's 2am going into Sunday, not coming out of it</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: luckily, my phone is smarter than me</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: oh</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so what's the official time now?</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hehee</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: 9:30 or 8:30?</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´d wish europe would change at the same day</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: 9:30 - the viewer clock is right</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: 9:30 i guess</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: right</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: no, Lilith, it's too fun so <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: in SL? It is 9:30, yes.</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: lol</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I don't think officials in Europ have ever heard about the issue it bring in SL <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: but they should...</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: last call for Sacromonte topic ...</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: and one of our faction leaders has an official SL Avatar hehe</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I think you should talk about it if you want Arria</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok</span><br />[9:38] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Sacromonte is empty since the coptic church has left</span><br />[9:38] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: as you know, empty sim = no fees to the treasurer</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: in the same time, there is a waiting list of people who want a parcel in AA</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Rose said 4 in the forums</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I think it could be a good project to bring CDS and AA together</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we talked about that in the guild already</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we could work with our usual process</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: with the Guild</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: goog</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: the problem is there are only few guild meetings lately</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: good*</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, but if the project is interesting, people will come</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Who is on the guild?</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Moon is the chair</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and everyone can go</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: the problem is Moons tight schedule</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I haven't seen her</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, we can do a team work</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: and without chair no meeting <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: usually we create a workgroup and we report to the Guild</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the Guild sure doesn't sound very active</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: does the guild have a deputy chair? like the RA has the 'pro tem' leader for times when the LRA can't make it?</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: so the chair must not be directl involved, but look the project at the end as an expert</span><br />[9:42] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: good question, pat</span><br />[9:42] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: in the past, Moon asked me sometimes to chair when I was chair of the Faculty</span><br />[9:42] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: so the chair of the Faculty could do</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i'm sure if we took a decision to develop a sim, a workgroup would soon form <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: where is Sacromonte sim?</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i don't see it on the map</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the sim is already there, but rather raw now</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: am i spelling it wrong?</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: ne corner</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: NE</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: next to albaycin and generalife</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: oh okay <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: &quot;Al Andalus Sacromonte&quot;</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalus%20Sacromonte/113/141/24">http://slurl.com/secondlife/Al%20Andalu ... 113/141/24</a><!-- m --></span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: didn't come up in search for plain old Sacromonte</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: right</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: thanks</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it's an homestead sim</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can set at least 6 parcels</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: rose said there was a group which had 'ideas' for sacromonte. anyone know anything about that?</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: The last time I heard Rose suggested some parade event there during Cultural meet.</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I don't know more, Pat</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I wonder about that too Pat</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: when will it be for sale</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I would like to know who are these citizen and then we can work together</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: rose also asked &quot;who to the approach? Me? Sudane? the Guild? Sonja? &quot;</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: which is a good question <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have a process</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the Guild I think</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: if someone wanted to do something with sacromonte, who should they talk to?</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: is the proper route</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Guild -&gt; RA -&gt; Executif</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but it appears to not meet much</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: and be empty of members?</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i'm not sure the guild is the right answer</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I talked about Sacromonte a few times with some other people</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: not really a group</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: a workgroup of citizen then</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i would say exec&gt;RA&gt;guild <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: better, Pat</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I once talked with Delia about Sacromonte and she told me to talk with Rose.</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: for development of the sim it shold be the guild</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: what to do with the sim</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: is the RA</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and we have to involve citizen</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but that should already have been decided when it was joined sorta</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Moon said the guild would have to ask the RA</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: last time I saw her <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: feels like we are in one of those loops we used to get into where no one knows who is responsible <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> it's to be expected soon after the merger i suppose</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: when AA joined the Sim was occupied as far as I know</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: yes lilith, i think it was</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: then probably Pat is right</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: NL 8-2 &quot;In-Theme&quot; Expansion Act</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the exec or RA has to determine what to do with it</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=214">http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=214</a><!-- m --></span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: and we probably didn't give enought thought to 'what happens when someone leaves?'</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: then the Guild would be tasked with the actual dooing i think</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: The name sounds familiar, I'd swear I'd been there</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I don't remember it though</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: can the plots be sold now?</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: or does the disposition of the whole sim have to be solved first?</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: the Sim where the copts have been</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i don't think it's divided into plots (but could be wrong)</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: it´s not devided</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: there is no plots currently</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I am looking for the masterplan of AA</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so Sudane would have to be involved</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: to divide it then</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-style: italic">Sylvia Tinkel whispers: ?</span></span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it's important to know the potential income of these sims</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hmm, it's interesting to have a blank slate</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: presumably an individual could offer to take it on as a homestead and agree to pay tier for it?</span><br />[9:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I would do that if I didn't already have a homestead</span><br />[9:52] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes I think that was the case at the time of the merger</span><br />[9:52] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: well ... I would prefer to see several parcels -&gt; moe citizen</span><br />[9:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: right</span><br />[9:53] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: to rent it to one person will not solve the question of the waiting list</span><br />[9:53] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: here are the questions the RA asks for a project of development:</span><br />[9:53] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: well, is there a really a problem with the waiting list? i know sylvia is waiting, and rose mentions 3 others interested in AA. but how many CDS parcels are for sale?</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I'm also not on any official list as far as I know</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but rose knows i'm interested</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the yellow map shows only one</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I think Sudane should make a list</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: and the people on the waiting list are interested in the spanish theme</span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Rose tried but they didn´t want to have a parcel in our other Sims</span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Sylvia, are you interested by a plot in Sacromonte?</span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-style: italic">Kaseido Quandry laughs. &quot;Seems a premature question till there's a theme and a build!&quot;</span></span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: well i'm thinking of opening a store</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but actually what i will likely sell woudl be better in Neufriestadt</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Fahcwerks etc.</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: So the question is what them will Sacromonte be</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: how rigid that is</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: and will it allow stores?</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: guild is talking about a Sim next to the Schloss also</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: *theme</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, but we have to see if we can afford a new sim today</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Sacromonte is there, but empty</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Is that where I heard of it?</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: for me the issue is also that I can't do anythign as a non citizen</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: the expansion for the schloss?</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so i have to buy a sort of fake polot somewhere</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we can´t bring Sacromonte next to the Schloss as it is a homestead</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: *plot</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I think a move is not free</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: no, they charge</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: LL will charge us</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: but it's less expensive than a new sim</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Sylvia, you and I can stay in contact about finding a good property for you here.</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: it could be used as a public resource instead of selling it</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: wasn´t the plan to build the Schloss across the Sim border to have a better place for events?</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: like a market in the middle of a natural setting</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: THAT WOULD NOT WORK WITH A HOMESTEAD ANYWAY</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so that residents could sell their stuff there</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: or an event venue</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: sorry - didn´t mean to use caps</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: right</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: no need to shout about it, Lilith!</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hahaa</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: haha</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: sylvia, what do you want to do that you can't currently do as a non-citizen?</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe - I apopogize</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: np <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: well don't i have to be a citizen to build things?</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i thought i did</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: build things where?</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: or volounteer etc.</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: well i'm a builder</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: and i'd like to volounteer to build things</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: dont' i have to be a citizen to do that ?</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: come to the Guild <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i think we would welcome volunteers whether they are citizens or not <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> pls try the guild, they should welcome the offers of help</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: okay</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i was prety sure i had to be a citizen to join the guild</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but i'd also like to have a small shop anyway</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: to vote maybe</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Sylvia, the guild no longer has a specific membership.</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: as far as I know you have to be a citizen to be able to vote</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: really</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: ?</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Those who show up can participate in the meetings.</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: aah, yes. you won't be able to vote until you are a citizen</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: with voting that is true, yes</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: The Guild is not as powerful as it used to be</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: not at all</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: and as for shops, well we have limited commercial property but you could ask someone if they would be prepared to sell to you</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: no, the role of the Guild has changed some</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, Pat's idea is good</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: maybe i'll just open a shop in Arosa <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: you can have both Sylvia <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I'll email Moon maybe</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, good idea</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I can help you to get a shop in the CDS</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and Arosa...</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but both are good</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: thanks Sonja</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: all plots people intent to sell are not for sale ...</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: like the house I have here <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: if someone is interested by a senatorial villa ...</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: back to Sacromonte</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: can we do something ?</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: first we have to know who are the poeple who are interested to work on this project</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can ask Rose</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: There seems to be a need for inexpensive plots to let people buy in to CDS</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: or a redefinition of citizenship</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I can imagine the parcels will be cheap</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so tht land purchase is not necessary</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: not saying which i agree with but that idea has been floated as well</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that needs a lot of discussion sylvia</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can calculate this easely</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: in this case, the land has already be sold</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it's more problematic for a new sim</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: because we need money to finance it</span><br />[10:08] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: is there an issue with putting several rentals onto a homestead sim like sacromonte? i know we do the same with teh MOnastery, how does that work? i think the other CDS homesteads are rented to individuals</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the Monastery sim had to be financially sustainable</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: there are 7 parcels, including the one of the Monastery</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Hey Stui</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the 6 others are to individuals</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Evening !</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we are talking about Sacromonte at the moment</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: ah ha</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hi Stui</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: in the masterplan, the Monastery can caver its costs even when they will be 125 US $</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Evening Sonja</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: cover*</span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: there is few public prims in Monastery sim</span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: how does it work for the renters arria? how do the limitations of a homestead sim affect them? there was some concern about this before the RA chose to set up the monastery in this way</span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: until now, I did not hear any claim</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: except the Monastery, it's residential</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: hello Frances</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: hello</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hi Frances</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: hello</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and the Monastery doesnt work with events</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: okay, so with a limited number of plots it might work well?</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Frances</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: hi <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: maybe half a dozen bedouin tents? <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I could live in a tent</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Hi Frances <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: for the newcomers, we are talking about the possibility to start a development poject in the sim Sacromonte, as it is empty now</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Frances Ying</span>: hi <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: to solve the issue of the waiting list for AA parcels</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: maybe it should be a more desert like sim</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: to denote it's sparser prims</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, we could install an oasis</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yeah</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: well the sim cannot give unused prims to other sims</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: camels! <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /></span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: does anyone know the extent of the waiting list ?</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: true</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Rose said 4 poeple</span><br />[10:15] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: in a homestead sim, we can have 6-8 parcels and few public prims</span><br />[10:15] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: a few houses in a nice landscape would be great</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I like Pat's tent idea <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: or even, parcelling and convenant</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: maybe an arabian market</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: parcelling, terraforming, a few infrastructure (like roads) and a convenant</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: oasis trading post?</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and people can install or build their own house</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I think owing to it's coastal edge</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it'd make good smugglers cove type things</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: a beach <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that's a great idea stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or fishing things</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: doesn't it have to be spanish/muslim though?</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: well yes</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it does</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the beach in CN is kind of lame as far as beaches in SL goes</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but there must be a coastal solution</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: it should fit the theme of the joining Sims</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: of course</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I like to fish sometimes in SL</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I'm looking at the map</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but it doesn't attact hundreds of people or anythign</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: boating attracts more</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: is it the end of our world in the general Masterplan?</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if we look into the fishing of the period</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: perhaps we can find a residential solution related to coastal life</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but in the corner</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: there are two buildings</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: it only has two parcels that would really have coast if it's divided into the usual four pieces</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: so for aesthetics we may need to find a way to link those into the space</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: are you part of the group of citizen already interested by this project, Stui?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: so, the first step would be for the RA to ask the Guild to prepare a proposal for developing the sim along the lines discussed and with the information they need as described in the 'in-theme' expansion act</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: no I've been so busy in RL lately</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I am not sure</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I agree, Pat</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but looking at the map</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: there's a discrepency between the edges of the sims</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: on two sides</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: brb phone</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: it looks like it needs some terraforming anyway</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: what is albaycin used for?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's a nature reserve</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I know that much</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: also a homestead?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: yep</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I think so</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: ah, okay. does anyone know who pays for it as a homestead?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I know it has links to Delia</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: she set up the nature reserve</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we really need this masterplan for AA</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: maybe</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: rose said &quot;Delia has an island that has several parcels that have been ready for sale since shortly after the merger, but they are awaiting pricing as far as i know.&quot;</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: we could have a quarry type settlement</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: what island?</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i assume that's albaycin</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the masterplan is the list of parcels with fees, amount of prims and public prims</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I see an island on Almunecar</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, a small island</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: you know</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: would it be a ridiculous idea to actually go there</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and have a look</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and see what we see</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and what we feel it needs</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: ?</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: we can be pioneers</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I don't see that we have the information we need to make any kind of decisions</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: wb Lilith <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it's a long process, Sylvia</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: wb Lilith</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: thanks <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i meant today we don't</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: evil crash hehe</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and we have to find these information first</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I konw even less than you Arria</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so i haven't much to say</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: but I think it could be a challenging project for our community</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: maybe both homestead sims could have residential plots</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: as well as being nature reserves</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it seems that the sim of Delia will have parcels too</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: aren´t those sky plots?</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it could be interesting to know how many and for what price</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can ask Delia for the details</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: do we discuss an other topic?</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: shall we put this on the agenda for next week's RA meeting and post something on the forums?</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, I agree</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: then ppl can get thinking about how/if to develop sacromonte</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I am ready to write a post and people can say their ideas</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: great <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and I take it as point for next RA meeting</span><br />[10:34] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: sounds good to me</span><br />[10:34] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Sorayah</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sorayah Sarrasine</span>: hello</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Sorayah <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sorayah Sarrasine</span>: sorry to disturb your meeting</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: have a seat</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: any other topic?</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: should we ask the european community to set the change of time in the same time than US to facilitate the life of CDS residents? <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hear hear</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe I´d apreciate that <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: or maybe the US can scrap daylight savings</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: oh, that would rock!</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: silly idea</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: maybe the hundred of millions users of Facebook have a better chance <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: should we stop here?</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: it seems to haev been a good meeting</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Sacromonte</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: any private announcement?</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I have found a general overview</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: oh, Arria, yes -</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: The Sacromonte neighbourhood is located on the extension of the hill of Albaicín, along the Darro River. This area, which became famous by the nineteenth century for its predominantly Gitano inhabitants, is characterized by cave houses, which are dug into the hillside. The area has a reputation as a major center of flamenco song and dance, including the Zambra Gitana, Andalusian dance originating in the Middle East. The zone is a protected cultural environment under the auspices of the</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: tell us stui</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: I'm going to throw another party, a week from Monday, at my place in AA</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Cave houses !</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: great</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: 6-8pm SLT, great DJ doing Middle Eastern pop.rock</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: great Kas - great Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we could add this in the CDS event Calender</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: great!</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: love the cav house idea</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Kaseido Quandry</span>: Arria, I'll get you copy shortly</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok. thank you</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: good, Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and mine workings</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: dating back to roman origin</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I take also the opportunity to remember the egg painting contest in the Monastery <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: and next week, the snow will MELT in CDS</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: is that for charity Arria?</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I got my egg yesterday</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: how will it make money?</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: do we have a fixed time already?</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: living in a cave house sounds like fun</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: this contest bring no money to the Monastery</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: oh</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: also we could have a gold mine hehhe</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it's only to encourage creativity</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: well i have mine i've been working on it all day yesterday</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but i hope lots of peole enter</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I hope too</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: SOnja, do you have information about the snow melting?</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Gypsies called Gitano's</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: the last day for snow will be next Saturday, the 20th</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: We will have a gathering for it</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: about what time will we gather?</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: how is it that peole have build rights to change the trees?</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i thoguht that Sudane would be needed or something</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: so far we have talked about either noon or 1pm SLT</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: people who are in the group Land management can change the trees</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: do you have a preference of one of those times?</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: ah</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: you know I don´t count as I´m not a typical european hehe</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: every time works for me <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: does anyone have a preference?</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: both are fine for me</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the only *real* time is game time <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: for me too</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: the rest of you are just off</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: for me too</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hahaa Sylvia</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: joke</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: exactly Sylvia hehe</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i'm being a time zone bigot</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: well, it will be around then</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: it is to be a gathering,</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: so we can start whenever works for us</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: then we will walk from there together to Alpine Meadow</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and maybe have some time around a campfire there <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: sounds lovely <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: great <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: those who are able can begin to replace trees</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´m so tired of snow hehe</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: so they are green</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: those who are not able to plant trees</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: can come along and be with everybody</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: then on the 21st the snow will be gone for the season.</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: couldn´t we change the land settings so everybody is able to plent trees?</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: only during the event</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: what do you all think about our doing that?</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I'd like to do it</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: chancing trees is quite a bore when only a few are able to do it</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but i don't hink i'm a member of the group</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: maybe people could be joined</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: and then tossed out the next day?</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: 19 people in this group</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: what's the group exactly?</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: that's ok with me</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Land Manager</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we could create a new role in this group</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: better is to ask Sudane</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: owners are sudane and jamie. it shd prob be sudane and sonja now?</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: yes</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, I think</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Sylvia, I will work on this between now and then</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: okay Sonja</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: and the owners/officers can set up new roles if needed for the tree changing</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: I was intending to show up anyway</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: i've already bought a dress <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: but if there is nothign to do it could get boring</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-style: italic">Patroklus Murakami is only a recent member</span></span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: that's a good idea Patroklus</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/aol/imageDetails?s_it=imageDetails&amp;query=traditional+Sacromonte+cave+houses&amp;img=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lechuaphotography.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FDSC_1563a-680x1024.jpg&amp;site=&amp;host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lechuaphotography.com%2F2009%2F11%2F14%2Fexploring-andalucia-granada-sacromonte-albaicin%2F&amp;width=100&amp;height=150&amp;thumbUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages-partners-tbn.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AbXNnWZc3IU-9UM%3Awww.lechuaphotography.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FDSC_1563a-6">http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/aol/imageDet ... SC_1563a-6</a><!-- m --></span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Sylvia</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Pictures of cave houses too <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: me is not going to click on that <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-style: italic">Lilith Ivory copies the link to have a look later <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span></span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: well i have RL laundry to do</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: so I shall depart <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: thanks for hte lvoely meeting Arria</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: looks good <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /> that would be a great theme for a sim</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: *lovely</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I found the shorter link</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.lechuaphotography.com/2009/11/14/exploring-andalucia-granada-sacromonte-albaicin/">http://www.lechuaphotography.com/2009/1 ... -albaicin/</a><!-- m --></span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: *waves to all*</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Does anybody here have the ability to give me a government status in the Al Andalus group?</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: bye Sylvia!</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Rose can</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: bye Sylivia</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: not sure sonja. let me try</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I can send notice. the rest I don't know</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think Rose can too, but she is not her.</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: she is not here.</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: she´s on the beach this weekend</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: sounds nice <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: sonja, you already have the 'chancellor' role' <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´m jealous lol</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: in the AA group?</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: oh sorry, i got my groups mixed up!</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: the main reason why I am wanting this is,</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: no, i can't invite you to the group as CDS Gov</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Winters Kanto is scheduled to play next Tuesday, as usual,</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: as usual?</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: ok, thanks Patroklus</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes, he has been playing music in Al Andalus every Tuesday evening for a long time</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ah I see <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but I have no ability to change the music stream where he plays.</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: If anybody here can do that,</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: only owners can assign members to roles - that's jamie and rose</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I would appreciate it if you would come to the event on Tuesday night.</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: at about what time is it?</span>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (mikeloserevi)</author>
            <category>Representative Assembly Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=24&amp;t=2756</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:13:04 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2756&amp;p=14425#p14425</guid>
        </item>
        <item>
            <title>Representative Assembly Discussion :: RA Town Hall Meeting 28 February 2010: Transcript - Part ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2755&amp;p=14424#p14424</link>
            <description><![CDATA[[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I think that will be the most efficient way to go</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: or if you prefer we can revive the Commerce Commission or another existing group.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't really want to see a new group created,</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: if people don't like it, you can be sure to hear about it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, who needs more clutter?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes, I agree Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i would say it's best to get *something* set up. it can be refined later</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and Pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: important to keep the momentum going</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: it can always be changed</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: like my profile  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: right, well, should the commerce committee be ra, executive appointed or a citezen volunteer group, like guild?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:39] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: which is now different than it was at the beginning of this meeting</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:40] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: That's a good question Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:40] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think in the past it was an RA thing</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:40] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe now it should become an executive one</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:41] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: It could also be a freestanding group, like the Guild... yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:41] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: well, how does this work in the real world? i think it's usually non-governmental in nature. so perhaps citizens should set this kind of thing up?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I am not a shop owner, but I think Pat is right.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Pat, I guess some times governments have commerce departments</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Seems business should get together.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-style: italic">Patroklus Murakami /me is a 'minimal government socialist' - i know, rather odd  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and sometimes non-governmental chambers of commerce</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol, it sounds nice though pat  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:42] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hahaa</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:43] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: it sounds like the best we can hope for right now is a couple of volunteers</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:43] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I could get started on it and see if anybody wants to join me in the effort</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: then we could see if anybody wants any structure to it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: well, what would it take to test sol's idea?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i agree with pat, i think they could have efforts approved by the ra, but should be lead by citizens</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think I could just make a sign</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and put it around</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I agree Sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, lets try this:</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: My building skills are good enough for that.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:45] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we announce the intention of a business directory, people weill love it or freak, everyone's design and system can be submitted</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:45] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, it could be a mess at first, but that's better than apathy</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:45] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and then a group of volunteers can approve a choise and the ra can vote</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I agree with that Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i would hope the group would have business owners in it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: do shops have to buy space from CDS?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: sounds good solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: to have a shop, yes tor</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Tor, shops in the CDS are privately owned</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:46] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: like anyone with a house</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I was wondering if you could off them no rent on exchange for a share of profits.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: you also can rent a stall in AA</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ok, then lets say the submission deadline is in two weeks</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: for the shop, but I think the idea was to not charge for promotion</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: they don't buy them from the CDS itself, but from their owners</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't think we need to charge for promotion</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: don¬¥t think so also</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:47] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: solomon: do you want to post the notice to start things off?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: ok, just trying to understand this place.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: If there is a cost I can ask the RA to pay for it, as it would be for the whole community</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: right</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ok, sure</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Thank you Solomon  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and yes, this would be fiunded by ra, but no, we wouldnt charge for businesses to participate</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:48] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: If you want help you can ask me.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:49] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks sonja</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:49] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we cold also make it a partnership in a way</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:49] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: where we ask the businesses to have a small sign about cds in their shops</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:49] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: good idea!</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:50] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: if they are on the kiosk, they have a small, tasteful sign with a limk to the site and maybe a nc about us and land sales</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:50] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe a poster with a lm in it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:50] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I was wondering if you would want to promote shops at events?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:50] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so we can try and catch their customers with info about us. everyone gets a bump</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:50] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: might want to charge for that tho.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:50] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: i.e. Flamenco Friday brought to you by ......</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: At past events we have had stands</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: oh, I see</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: too much advertisement during events might anoy peole</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, we can have social events like fairs and have boths for free</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes lil</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:51] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: sure don't in rl</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:52] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i think if we have events, they will be in public places, and we would have a direcory at the sim centers</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:52] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: there could maybe be a sign near the event</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:52] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so it will get attention anyway</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:52] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: that would be great</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:52] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: a directory I mean</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: whoever is hosting the evets would want to encourage 'touring the sim...' etc..</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: &quot;thank you, try the veal&quot;</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: yes, i thing that would be good.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: &quot;be sure to stop by Lilith's shop!&quot;</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I try to encourage tours when I meet peopel at anzere</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:53] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:54] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Sometimes we have done things like that  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:54] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haha, like a tourist guide.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:54] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: me too Tor</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:54] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I direct people to the tours all the time,</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:54] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: from Arosa too</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:55] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: oh i migh be missing something, but how do i get the owl to rezz for the tour of NFS</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:55] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so it will happen naturally without 'selling out' an event</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:55] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: you're lucky if it doesn't....</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:55] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:55] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Tor, I can show you after this meeting</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:55] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:56] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ok, so, action items....</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:56] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: did anyone take notes?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:56] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: heh</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:56] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: btw: can anybody send me an invite to the commerce group?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:56] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I will look for signs that need updating.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:56] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I did</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: oh lil</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: give sonja the list.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: good call</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I¬¥m too lazy to find it hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we need to pick one of the 3 i think</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and just kill the others</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: its confusing</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yesindeed</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:57] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Probably CDS Traders Association is best</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: maybe pick the one with a still active founder. might make it easier</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i think both are open access</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: exactly</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: lol yes Sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: oh dear, are ppl looking at me?  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haha</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yep!</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i have no idea, i havent looked at them in months</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: you are still active...</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:58] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: which is yours?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: TA</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:59] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-style: italic">Lilith Ivory /me likes that tag  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:59] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ty Pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: anyone else want invites?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-style: italic">Patroklus Murakami /me feels a fraud as he has no business in the CDS these days....</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i would be very happy for someone else to take it over!</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: maybe that's best, no conflict</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: so you have more time for the job?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-style: italic">Lilith Ivory /me smiles</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: i better take cover.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lil!</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-style: italic">Sonja Strom /me thinks he can support them</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: its you!</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: LOL! no, i have not time at all</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:01] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: me what?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:01] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lil...lil...lil...</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:01] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: new ta chief head cheese commander</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:01] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-style: italic">Lilith Ivory /me isn¬¥t sure to have time besides her other dutyies</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:01] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:01] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: what about you Sol?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:02] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i dont have much time either, and my business here... well i dont really have one. i dont do much with it</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:02] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: but i will till a proper one is found</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:02] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: time to change that  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:02] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!! <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i'm sure once people learn i'm running it, new nominations will pour out</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haha</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Sol has a plan already.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I¬¥ll help however I can  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: excellent</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:03] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: me too</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:04] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i really am already ebhind my own schedule on stuff, but i can delegate like mofo</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:04] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: pss the buck , i mean</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:04] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:04] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haha</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:04] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-style: italic">Lilith Ivory /me smiles</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ok, so, two weeks from today</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: submissions for new business directory plan due</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: in the meantime, committee formed to judge</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: pick a new me, and roll ball</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:06] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: would be great to get info about how many shops we have in the Sims</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:06] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: there was a list put together at one point,</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:06] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think around six months ago</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:06] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes, but unless someone physically goes around and takes a head count,</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:07] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe Brian was involved with that?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:07] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we would rely on them responding to a notice to submit their names and info</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:07] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: true</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:07] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so, proactivity will have to do it</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: it makes a difference wether we have to create a board for 10 or 30 shops</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: do we have an eate mgr on each sim in cds?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: estate*</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: the estate manager for the former cds sims is sudane erato</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we can ask them to take a count and notes on their sims on their next swing through</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i think rose is EM for the former AA sims</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:08] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes, right</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: oh, but not one per sim?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Does anyone run a business from there home but not have a shop?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: no solomon, i believe sudane was EM for all of them</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: like a service, tor?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hmmm</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Tor, I think Gwyneth is like that.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: say a scripter.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: some might be</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:09] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: So they need to be included.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: we have considered other ways of running this but not yet found a better solution</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: right, they are free to join if they have land here</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I think when it's come up before, there have not been enough volunteers for one manager per sim</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: She sells scripts on XstreetSL from a box at her home.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: ah</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hmm... i need a scripter</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't think she has a shop anywhere - although she used to.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: other ppl sell services too - arbitration for example</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: see and we have one right here</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Solomon, I know a couple of good scripters.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Gwyn has a shop at the forum  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: oh, ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I was wrong about that then.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i don't *think* we have any sex workers but, who knows?  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: well there could be others tho.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't know of anybody Tor</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: anyway, that sim rep is another issue, but for now, does anyone have any other ideas about gathering this info?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haha</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we would know Pat  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes Pat, not that are saying, lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: well somebody is planing a new sim</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:11] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i think a lot of people are...  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: the guild does</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:12] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Have to check out those shy classrooms more often.</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: you should Tor  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:13] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, the system isnt ever in stone, always subject to updating and scaling</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:13] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so we can say that in the notice, to acomodate.... 25 businesses</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:14] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:14] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: if it turns out that we have lots more, and its popular, we create a new one'</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:14] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: right</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:14] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: but i'd hate to see it die because we couldnt get a number to start from</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:14] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: sure -</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:14] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: or maybe 24?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: is brian still doing the website?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: 24, ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: 4 rows of 8</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: or 6 rows of 6</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i must get going now. bye everyone  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hmm.. sounds like you'll have a submission, sonja?</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: bye pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: bye pat, thanks</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: bye Pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: bye Patroklus</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: cheerio  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: thanks for hosting the meeting!</span><br />[2010/02/28 11:15] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: np</span>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (mikeloserevi)</author>
            <category>Representative Assembly Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=24&amp;t=2755</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:45:16 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2755&amp;p=14424#p14424</guid>
        </item>
        <item>
            <title>Representative Assembly Discussion :: RA Town Hall Meeting 28 February 2010: Transcript - Part ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2754&amp;p=14423#p14423</link>
            <description><![CDATA[[2010/02/28 09:09] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hi lilith, we're outside  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:09] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hi lilith</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:09] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hi Pat  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:09] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Left Door</span>: Lilith Ivory is at the door.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: was not easy to find you  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: less experienced Avies might have problems</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:11] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: great ball last night  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:11] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, the logical entry point is inside</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:11] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: maybe we should send the slurl in group chat</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:11] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: some pushed for out here last time, so we sort of defaulted to the patio this time</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I had to copy it from the note and paste it in chat</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:12] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: if you have the slurl feel free to send it out in the group chat</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: lol ok  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: how is it called? townhall meeting?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:13] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: yup, i just sent a group notice to AA and CDS groups</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, or townhall style</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hi arria</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:13] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Mikelo  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Lilith  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hi arria  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Pat  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Arria  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: oh wow! I love your shoes Arria</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: aah, i see i'm still wearing last night's outfit  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:14] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:15] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: no problem for us, Pat  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:15] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: well, jamie some peopel don't change for years so I think you're ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:15] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:15] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: those look a little, aah, painful arria  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:15] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'm sure they feel better in SL</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:16] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:16] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: beautiful but painful. we suffer for fashion?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:16] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: most of my shoes I couldn¬¥t wear in RL hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:16] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Gwyn and I, we intented to add to CSDF manifesto a new point: &quot;fashion&quot;  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:16] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:16] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I second  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:17] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: LOL! lucky you didn't try!</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: unfashionable RA members will be expelled</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:17] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: or perhaps censure is better?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:18] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: (I can't talk by the way, someone picked this outfit for me)</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:18] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Keila  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:18] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it's a nice place</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:18] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hi keila  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:18] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Hi</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:18] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Keila  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:19] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I like the textures of the walls</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:19] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Yes, Satir does a great job.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:19] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: does anyone have a topic they want to begin our discussion with?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I have one of her vases</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hi arias  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Hi</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have started on fashion  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Hi Arias</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Arias  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: jeroma, welcome  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Arias  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Lets see if I can sit down without sitting on a lap.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Jeroma Wycliffe</span>: Hi all</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: hey Jeroma</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Jeroma</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Jeroma</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:20] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I was hoping citizens might have things to discuss</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i was just trying to prompt a discussion before you came. feel free to jump in!</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Soliel</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Hi Soliel</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Soliel</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'm sure we can come up with topics if no one has anything pressing on their mind</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: Hi</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:21] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hi soliel, great ball last night!  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" />  i had fun</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, the musoc was great</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: music*</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I'll just say the on thursday at 1pm the Portal forum workgroup with meet again</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: will</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: oh, that's a good thing</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: you video about the ball is great, Pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:22] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Smilsson</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Smilsson</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: ty arria, glad you liked it. pretty much my first effort!</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Soro</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:23] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Soro</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Schmilsson Nilsson</span>: Hello all  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:24] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Hello</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hi  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:24] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hello everyone  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:24] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Sonja</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:24] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi SOnja  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: am I taking up too much bench?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:25] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: I am fine -- prefer to stand.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:25] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Hi Sonja</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:25] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:25] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-style: italic">Arias's Google Translator: Hi Sonia</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:26] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: so... anyone want to begin?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: suddenly everyone is very shy  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Lady:-)</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Lady</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: LOL</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: not me..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'm trying to not talk too much, I can be kind of chatty sometimes</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:27] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: what do you all think would be best for us to promote in the CDS, I mean, for us to support?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:28] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">LadySilverfoxx Starship</span>: Hello everyone</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:28] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Hi Lady  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" />  welcome</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: what do you mean Sonja?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: brb phone</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:28] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: We support all of CDS, not just one part.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I am involved with a number of organizations outside of SL and have been encouraging them to develope a presence.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: ok, so every aspect of the CDS all at one time?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the kind of activities we could developp, you mean?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Well, some have concerns about commerce, others want community, etc, is that what you mean?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I guess I am asking, what are our interests?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I think it all needs to be supported concurrently..that is what makes CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:29] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Last night I met with one new non-profit group that votd unanamiously to get involved with SL</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: great, Arias</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Damn, my bunny is hungry..it can wait a bit</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: great Arias</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: bunnies could be one example...</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I might have some cilantro</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe we would like to support having bunnies in the CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I will be working to find them quarters, probably in AA</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:30] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Before you talk bunnies, you might need to redo the covenant..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: bunnies are something everyone can support</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: But I would love having them here..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hi arria</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Hi Imotali</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Hello Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hello everyone</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Officially, they are against the CDS covenant..as is quite a bit of other things I've noticed.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hi soro</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we definitely should have a look at the covennant - it¬¥s way old fashioned</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">LadySilverfoxx Starship</span>: hello Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:31] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: HI, Arria and everyone</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Hi Imotali</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: except bunnies, I think we should promote cultural and educational activities</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: oh, you mean their scripting?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hello lady...lilith  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Imotali</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: Hi Lil</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: this two domains are more and more important in SL</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Yes Lilith, it's needs a good looking at..just around me, I can say the me, sudane, jeroma, and jamie are not in compliance.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have a good basis</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:32] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I liked the covenant when I first cam to CDS, because I'd been shopping on the mainland</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: with no rules, SL becomes a zoo</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: So Sonja, what are your thoughts for what you want to accomplish</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I have a couple of questions about the covenants too</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: are you moving back to CDS?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I never left the CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I don¬¥t want to delete it - just renew it</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:33] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Oh, your profile just says your home is Arosa..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Yes, true</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:34] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: As for the website, I've spoken to Aida too</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I have two homes  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: How about you Keila? Do you have property outside of the CDS?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:35] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I do, but I'm not chancellor ..<img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: What do you want me to do?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:35] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Just bringing up that point as someone new asked me about it</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: What point?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: this person can ask Sonja directly  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes, I think so too -</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Why the chancellor lives in Arosa and not CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: issue or not, but perhaps there may be more pressing items on todays agenda?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Sonja, the issue is conflict of interest.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I am approachable</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I don't think it's a conflict to have land elsewhere</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: The Chancellor does live in the CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I said you had to or you couldn't be chancellor /...hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: The Chancellor has had continuous land ownership in the CDS for over three years.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: Yes, on the covenant topic. Is it over?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: having it in AA was never a problem</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: I think the issue is the profile not land ownership in this instance perhaps?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:37] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: It's the promoting of CDS..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think a lot of people active in the CDS also have land elsewhere.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: a profile is personal</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Solomon, do you have knowledge of an agenda?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: it's a week in to her term, lets see what her actions as chancellor say about her interest, not her profile</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: If that is your job, you need to promote however you can</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I can change my profile, is that the problem?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I don't really care...</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: you were only asking for somebody else</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: My only issue with the covenant was it has no mention of tier</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: several people wanted to talk about the convenant</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: oh, no, buti cant imagine her profile or land holdings can be the most important thing.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: but I will ask them to contact you from now on</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: nvm</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: please do  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: let's talk about convenant</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lets</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:39] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: (Pat is on the phone ...)</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:40] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: One question I would like to bring about the covenants is, what about advertising for businesses in the CDS?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:40] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: One citizen has a shop here, and would like to put up signs for it on other sims,</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:40] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I think it¬¥s ok on your land but not on public land</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:40] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but says this has not been allowed</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: back  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I am setting up a studio here. Is that an infringement?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: What does the covenant say about it??</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we are talking about cnvenants, Pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a business directory kiosk of a sort though, listing shops all over cds</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: ok, i'll read back to catch up</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I agree with Sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: That makes sense Solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, me too</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: one agreed upon design that could go in public places, giving averyone equal exposure</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:41] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Especially in NFS when you can't tp to anywhere but the market place</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:42] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I think advertising is a good idea, esp if it's fair</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:42] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I just don¬¥t want ugly advertisement signs everywhere</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:42] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: a business directory is a good idea</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:43] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: there doesn't need to be signs</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:43] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: signs at your business should be enough , if there is a directory</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:43] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yeah, it would have to be tasteful</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: this is why a kiosk might work</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: What is tastefull to one is trash to another</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: not only for in-world shops, but also for services</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: perhaps we could announce the intention to the group and have a submission deadline for those that want to submit a design</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: not everyone has a shop</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we need a commision to decide what is tasteful and what is not</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: right arria, any business</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:44] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: for example a DJ</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:45] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: the commission can decide on the submissions</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:45] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: a board in the sims theme with small logo with a lm for every business..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:45] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes Keila</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:45] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: that sounds great!</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:45] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: so if a shop's logo is considered distasteful, then they can't be in the directory??</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: pardon me I must leave, RL issues here</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: if there is a board the logo itselv does not matter imao</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, we can say 'keep it pg'</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: the covenant talks about tackiness, basically</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: but, remember most with shops already are here because of good taste</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: : )</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think so too Soliel</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:46] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: good point, sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: so I think it will be a non issue</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and for NFS, you might want to relook the marketplace covenant..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: are there some business owners here? is a business directory what ppl want?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Right Door</span>: Tor Karlsvalt is at the door.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: my little house will be a flower shop</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and did you know that the building in the marketplace overlap property lines..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I¬¥m a shop owner and would be happy to have such a board</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I am trying to develope a studio to market my paintings and graphics.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:47] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Tor</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:48] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: it could have a list on the website too</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:48] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Would love to have a business here, but not feasible for me</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:48] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soliel Snook</span>: and for those that are new to SL commerce I would be happy to have a small workshop on promotion</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:48] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: why is that keila</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:48] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: space, prims.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:49] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i hear some people say that it would be useful. does anyone have a specific product in mind?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:49] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Keila I did not know about the overlapping property lines, but I think maybe it could be because the smallest unit for property line measurement is 16sm</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:49] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hmm.., could you have a smaller boutique, like a satelite shop here?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: in the market place, and the property is infringing into the building next to it</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: still not enough prims for the cost</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hmm..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: soliel, i think thata a great idea</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and I won't have a business anywhere that they can't tp directly to my shop</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: does anyone use Xstreet in CDS?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Keila, I think maybe the property lines can not be made small enough in the Marktplatz to accommodate all of the buildings there.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: most people will up and leave before everything rezzes</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I do..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I do  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:50] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: good</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: they can TP directly in CN, right?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: but will be leaving when they impose the fees</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and there's plenty of places that arent in nfs</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: have you moved to slapt.me Lilth?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I know my own building on the Marktplatz has no infringement, but I could see it being the case with others.</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: never heared about that Keila  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ooops does LL intent to set fees in Xstreet?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:51] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: A lot are moving there, once the fees are started</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: yes..said so last year</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: what fees are these?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: per item listed</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ye, we put in slapt kiosks in solace beach</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: 10L i think?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: per item</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: or items 10L and less</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and 99L for free items</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: then I¬¥d leave also as the sales are only a small part of my income</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: oops,</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: shut up!?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:52] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: oh i see, on the marketplace?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: 99l?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: jeez</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: 99l fee for items 10L or less</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and 10L per every other item</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Patroklus, I think they are talking about XstreetSL</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: thousands of items have already pulled out</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: do you have a link to this other place Keila?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I'll find it for you</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:54] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: thanks</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:54] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: yes, i think i heard about it ty sonja  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:54] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: notecard about it</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:54] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ty Keila  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:55] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: also metaverse too</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:56] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so, how many shops would we guess a directory would have to accomodate?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:56] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://slapt.me/market/index.php">http://slapt.me/market/index.php</a><!-- m --></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:56] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: 10, 30?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: interesting</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: good question</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: check with the land manager, they should know</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: heh, lil?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: or be able to find out who has a business here</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I always missed the comerce commision meetings  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:57] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: could the board rotate signs, like a vendor?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:58] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: so did everyone else  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 09:58] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: sigh</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:58] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I went to a few of them,</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:58] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: that will take a while for them to rez</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:58] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: for a directory, it's better to have them all visible</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:58] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but they were not really talking about signs</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: if I¬¥d like to find a special shop it would bore me to wait until it shows up</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: surely, with the new viewer, all we need is a page on the portal and then a web page inworld?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Keila, you all shops in the CDS should be on the board at one time?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I won't as a shopper, page through signs and know many others won't either</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i just made a set for solace beach, they use the same server system they used for sl6b and burning man, it makes it easy to update</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: for that sims</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: But what about when we have 25 sims?</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: yes, each sim has it's own directory..</span><br />[2010/02/28 09:59] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Rign now we have 11 sims...</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and for all the sims, a page on the website</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Right now</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and not all sims have shops</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: that could be cool pat, but it couldnt give nc, lm, and a gift like a prim could</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: that sounds scalable, keila</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: if that's what is wanted, I will support it,</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: what product did you use to set up your system solomon?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:00] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: no way would I be looking through a directory of 20 sims worth, it could give a notecard of all</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:01] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but it does sound like a pretty big board</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:01] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, i would think the point would partially be so that people could see what business were available all over cds</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and who will be in charge of maintainence..</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:01] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: kiosk.net</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: well, I guess it's the land manager as that person is in charge of land</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Keila, what do you mean when you say &quot;Land Manager&quot;?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: The Estate Owner, or the Caretaker?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, it could be a list of names, in categories</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: instead of a logo for each</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: no, the land manager for CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: logos need space</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Keila, who is that person right now?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:02] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I don't know, you will have to tell me...who have you chosen?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Not Rose.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: one could touch the name and get a description nc with any lm and gift items in it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't remember there being a title of &quot;Land Manager&quot; before.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i'm just looking at 'land verwaltung' which is the group we have usually used for land management in the CDS</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Rose was with the old term</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: a lot of people wear the land manager tag</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: oh</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ah you mean PIO?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:03] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: No..</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and I don't have time to find the post..sorry</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Rose was the PIO, then the Vice Chancellor</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: she was also in charge of land</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: whenever someone needs building rights he becomes a land manager</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Rose is the Estate Owner of Al Andalus</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: but that person doesn't have the right to sell</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:04] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I think what Lilith is saying is helpful -</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: it feels to me like an executive branch responsibility  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: in fact a land manager has not much power at all</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-style: italic">Patroklus Murakami /me looks at sonja .....</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: It was</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Yes , it is an executive position</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: anybody in a land management group has the title of &quot;Land Manager&quot;</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and I'm not talking about the tag land manager, I'm talking about the position</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I have</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: maybe someone might volunteer to help the exec with setting this up? it sounds like some ppl already have experience to help</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: whatever happened to the 'chamber of commerce'?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:05] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: it is not a position so far as I know</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Maybe you need to talk to Rose Sonja</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: it was a position last term</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: it could fall to them</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: ok, I will</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: solomon, we never set one up  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: maybe we should?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the Chancellor can organise his/her team</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we had a chamber of commerce as far as I know</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: or whatever committee was formed to choose the design</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: ok, I have to go</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ahh..</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:06] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I think Rose was Dep Chancellor</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:07] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: must have had some land powers.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:07] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: she was, but had other responsibilies..she was land manager, why do you think she spent hours a day selling land</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:07] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I've wondered that myself</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:08] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Because she was in charge of land...search the forums for the post</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:08] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we could just find a volunteer to care about the board</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:08] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the official positions are Caretakers, PIO, Treasurer and Webmaster, and Content Archivits</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: yes lilith, good idea  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:08] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: yes, i read one where Jamie gave her most of his powerss over land.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: theChancellor is in charge of the land</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Solomon, the board seems to interest you...</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes lil, but maybe a commerce committee could be formed</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: it is written in the constitution</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: would you help with it?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Jamie created a Dep Cancellor position</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I agree Sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:09] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, i could manage that, but if we are going to take commerce more seriously now, there will be other things to be decided, planned and executed</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: OK, we could keep the Commerce Committee alive  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we ave one?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes,</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I would be willing to help.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: it has existed for a few years.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: didn¬¥t you run it Sol?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: there's nothing to stop anyone setting up a CDS chamber of commerce. in the real world it just involves ppl getitng together to declare one</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i tried to havea meeting once</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: There is a Commerce Commission, which currently is inactive</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the CDS group still exists  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: omg not another group</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and there are two commerce groups (at least):</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I run out of free spaces</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: the CDS Traders Association</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and the CDS Chamber of Commerce</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: these already exist</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:11] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes, i was in and dropped them when nothiing happened</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:12] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: the traders association (which i must admit i set up) has been a bit, ahem quiet  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:12] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: heh</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:12] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: ok, so maybe a revival of the existing groups if there's interest</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: it¬¥s p to us to fill it with live  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:12] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Schmilsson Nilsson</span>: Have to log. Thanks for having me.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:12] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, lets pick one, kill the others and do it while theres steam in it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:13] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i found it was quite difficult to get cds businesses interested in working together. but times have moved on, we might do better if we try agin?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:13] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: think so Pat</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:13] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: sure, commerce is still here....</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: maybe</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:13] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:13] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we could have events together</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:14] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i think soliel had a great idea for having a workshop</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:14] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: yes  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:14] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that was a great idea</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:14] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:15] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe the advertising boards could be a subject that could interest the businesses in participating?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:15] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i think that falls under what cds has to offer as a 'product', knowlege</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:15] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I also wonder if we could have a clasified add for whole sims</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:16] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: that could be good</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:16] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i found in solace that when i sent notices about it, no one replied, but when i put up the kiosks with solace beach signs and 'click here to be here, free', local businesses responded</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: even if noone else comes to meetings about it, once a kiosk goes up and some businesses are on it, others will wan to be</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: makes sense</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I agree</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: they'll see it on each sim</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: sounds like a good way to begin solomon</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: and everyone would have the opportunity to join</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: or to opt out</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:18] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: sure</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:18] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: it's a good idea</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Time for Brunch, so I'll see your folk later.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i know cds haas plenty of marketing guroos in it that might like to show off and lend a few ideas</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Ciao, ciao.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: see you Soro  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ciao ciao</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: bye soro  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: btw, this might be from left field</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-style: italic">Tor's Google Translator: btw, this might be from left field</span></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:19] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: but the new SL viewer will liet us share web content inworld</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:20] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: We cold make use of that for advertising</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:20] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yea, its a cool feature, we can play with it, definately</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: it's going to revolutionise SL tor  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" />  i wish i could get it to work! LOL</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:20] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haha</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: well its still beta</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ha, yea. theres a lot of trial and error to go, but its gunna be good</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yeah, web on a prim has been a big thing</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: doesn¬¥t sound very user friendly yet</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: if I can just find everything in the new viewer</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: and upgrade my memory</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>:  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: i played with it and go teh CDS events calendar on it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i just wish there was some more notice about it.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:21] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: on a prim</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: cool, tor</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: but you need 2.0 to see it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we'll be using it for orientation and tutorial videos</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I have to go</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: oh, that's a prob, it will leave other viewrs behind</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: you could do something like that for the forums and businesses</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: bye arria  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: bye bye</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: bye Arria</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:22] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: byearria</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: bye Arria</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: could i make an observation</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: oh, not to digress, but about the commerce committee</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I too must go. be well.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: bye Arias</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: it seems many of the signs for events and info are out of date</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: bye arias  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: If i were a business that would bother me</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: do you mean on the portal tor?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:23] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: it looks like stuff isn't maintained</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: no</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: where Tor?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: the event signs.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: some of the notecards along the road</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: what do they say now?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: mostly old stuff</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: in which sim/sims?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: don'te mention AA</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:24] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I will look for them.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: good call</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I think some of them can only be modified by the owner</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Tor, what do they look like?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ...who is not online much</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: That could be Lilith</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hmm.. could be replaced with group set ones</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Yes, if they are owned by a citizen on their own land then we can not remove them.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:25] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Well maybe if you put up a sign then perms have to be given to a group</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Only the citizen can do that.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haah Sol</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: right</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: we could return it and place a new one with the right permissions</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe, depending on what kind of sign it is</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: well that shuold be a requirement if you are setting something out</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:26] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yup, and get to the private land ones as we can</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Tor, would you be willing to give us a list of those you have found?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: The ones you are thinking of?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: sure a private sign is private businesss</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: i can give you a list</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: need to go though the sim again tho</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: That would be very helpful.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:27] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that would be really helpful tor</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:28] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thats a pio thing too...</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:28] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: right?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:28] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: think so</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:29] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Rose had updated one of the notecards at anzere</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:30] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, we can copy/paste that nc and reuse it</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:30] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: sure,</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:30] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: A new visitor pointed out that the link to the portal was old tho</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:30] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: funny when a visitor points stuff like that out.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:30] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: luv that</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:31] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: hehe</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:32] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: yes, sometimes new people find things the rest of us have not noticed</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:32] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: A little perspective can help a lot</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: It sounds to me like these issues are executive functions.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, a call to the new pio to check it out should work, tor could catch up with them</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: sure, who is the new PIO?</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I don't think we will have a PIO this term.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: oh no, that's a shame</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Instead those subjects will be separated:</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:33] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: oh wow, I sorry to hear that</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: We will have an Events Director</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: a Media Coordinator</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and a couple of other roles that have not yet been defined</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:34] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ah I see</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:34] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: maybe one could be something like Commerce Coordinator</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:34] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: so the Media Coordinator would probably take over info duties</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:35] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Yoge  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: A lot of the info duties, yes, but not all</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:35] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: hi yoge</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:35] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Left Door</span>: Yogeswari Padar is at the door.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: they would be mostly web-oriented activities</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:35] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: At the end of last term nobody was PIO</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Rose kept doing those things I think because nobody else was there...</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It's a thankless job, especially with the web sites being in differnt places</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hi Yogeswari!</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: so far I haven't had many volunteers either</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but it's ok</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:37] <span style="color: SeaGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Yogeswari Padar</span>: hi sonja!</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: we can all do what we want  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[2010/02/28 10:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and things will work out.</span><br />[2010/02/28 10:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: If you like I can just work on these sign and advertising issues how I think is best,</span>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (mikeloserevi)</author>
            <category>Representative Assembly Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=24&amp;t=2754</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:44:35 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2754&amp;p=14423#p14423</guid>
        </item>
        <item>
            <title>Representative Assembly Discussion :: RA Meeting 7 march 2010: Transcript - Part 2 :: Author ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2753&amp;p=14422#p14422</link>
            <description><![CDATA[[10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Pat</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: you can continue this discussion after the meeting or in a next meeting</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: rather as I said</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: the issue would be on both sides</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I think for you all to make a valid judgement you should know how this will affect the number of those voiting.</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: in a next Town Hall (sorry)</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: sure</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: CDS could lose voting citizens</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: next point</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thats a real good point tor</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: c. Order of the RA Agenda</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: (we don't have non-voting citizens; all citizens are voting citizens, or they aren't citizens at all <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> )</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: AP is this me ?</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Stui, you have asked to add a point about the RA Agenda Order during the last meeting</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: yes that's true</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: c'est vrai</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have voted to postponed this point today</span><br />[10:39] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: c'est vraiment vrai !</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: je sais <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: then deciding who's a citizen decides who votes</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: you have the floor</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: (yes, Solomon)</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: (that was a slogan on a ad in paris)</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: well I just wondered if we could move citizens concerns to the start of the meeting before approving the agenda</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: they voted us here</span><br />[10:40] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and they get heard last</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and well how can we approve an agenda that hasn't been approved by all at the meeting</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: even if we are seen to represent</span><br />[10:41] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it sseems to me that the citizens concerns relate directly to the course of the meeting</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: as their experiences may colour our votes</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and affect the priorities of the meeting</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: c'est fini</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: wow stu</span><br />[10:42] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I would like to reminder again the rules of the RA</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: that sounds pretty good</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Oh, I like this idea <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: My only concern is a practical one of time</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: they give a a lot of possibilities to citizen to make proposals</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: We set a time limit!</span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-style: italic">Patroklus Murakami raises hand</span></span><br />[10:43] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: 3. Citizen input</span><br /><span style="color: MediumTurquoise"><span style="font-style: italic">Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the &quot;legislative discussion&quot; forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda.</span></span><br /><span style="color: RoyalBlue"><span style="font-style: italic">It is suggested that that member be chosen by the submitter as a supporter of the substance of the bill. Posting the content of the bill on the forum is also strongly suggested, so that public opinion can be gathered. It is highly suggested that the bill contain two parts:</span></span><br /><span style="color: Purple"><span style="font-style: italic">(1) A summary of what is proposed, and</span></span><br /><span style="color: Gray"><span style="font-style: italic">(2) a detailed statement of the proposed action and its implications.</span></span><br /><span style="color: Magenta"><span style="font-style: italic">The members AND the public need to know the issues on what will be a wide variety of matters, and those persons must not be assumed to have a complete understanding of the issues. I.E. The bill should be an educational document. Please!</span></span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: we can also move to table certain issues</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pat, you have asked to speak</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if they are non priority that shouldn't be an issue as such</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: so long as people are heard</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yu have the floor</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and the issues are out there</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i disagree with this proposal. i don't think it makes sense</span><br />[10:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: we have a job of work to do here which is why our meetings have a certain formality and their structure</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: our role is to pass laws and conduct long-term planning</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: ROTFLMAO</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: most of our time should be spent doing those things</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: so, if there is legislation to be considered, that should come first</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and if the concerns related to that legislation ?</span><br />[10:45] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: as arria has posted, *none* of that prevents citizens concerns being heard</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and we missed a detail on account of the order of the meeting</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: we are the smaller number</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-style: italic">Pip Torok agrees with Pat on this point</span></span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: citizens are able to participate in the discussion on those itmes</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: pls don't interrup stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: and the citizen can talk with the representatives they trust</span><br />[10:46] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: in addition, we have our town hall meetings which are much more informal and allow for even more citizen input</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: and which have already borne fruit with their own proposals</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: so i see this idea of changing the order of our agenda as unnecessary</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that's all for now <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you, Pat</span><br />[10:47] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: wait, how does reshuffling a timed, existing agenda item deract from the ability of the RA to function in a meeting?</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: AP can I respond ?</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: other opinions?</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I agree with pat</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: first things first solomon <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks mike</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: non RA members are not supposed to talk now</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: right, and as you said</span><br />[10:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol, oh, my bad</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i thought you had said something about serving the people</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol, you didnt</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: anyway</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: there are many possibilities for citizen to bring concern to the RA</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: if there is a timed agenda, it could serve to inform that days voting for RA to hear public opinion on that days agenda</span><br />[10:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: before* they vote</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: The agenda is posted in advance, Solomon... is that your concern?</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well thas great</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: &quot;but...&quot;?</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: then they can come to the meeting prepared</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: like RA can</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: That's the whole point, yes...</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and be heard last</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or not at all like last week</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: great, then the people can speak to the agenda items, publicly, before the voting</span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: ... or not at all <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[10:50] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: if citizens concerns need legislation, they should be turned into bills so the RA can consider them</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: as suits the RA</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: But they can always do that, Solomon...</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if expediency is required</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: At the very beginning of the session, the LRA *specifically* asks the audience if they wish to register themselves to speak on any of the agenda items.</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i'm sorry, i thought stui was speaking about moving the official public speaking time towards the top of the agenda</span><br />[10:51] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I propose that we fit a fire exit in here so that the more eager to leave RA members can do so more rapidly than a TP</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: I understood that the &quot;free-for-all&quot; period (e.g. &quot;any other business&quot; from the citizens) would be pushed at the top of the agenda...</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: as per last meeting</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: And I'm not against that idea, as long as it has a time limit <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: that was my proposal GL</span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: putting 'any other business' at the start of the meeting makes no sense <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Yes... I'm not against it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:52] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: good point gwen</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i see your point</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I agree and if we need more time we can put it on next aganda</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I don't mind it having a time limit</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Pat, but it might be interesting to experiment...</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: speaking of time limits, did you make the proposal, stui?</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: people often comment upon my flexibility</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: without a time limit, it is not possible</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: normally we don´t have much citizens concerns anyway</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it comes from being supernaturally thin</span><br />[10:53] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /></span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: is the RA an experimental Lab Gwyn?</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Aww Pip. You know that's not what I meant...</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: depends on what rats you can get in Pip</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: pfft <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I saw one by the bin at work</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I almost soiled myself</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'd be more willing to consider this if I didn't feel it was intended to stall the RA</span><br />[10:54] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: (that'll be the first time that was mentioned at RA)</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I wonder why anyone would want to hamper the RA?</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I think that it's integral to the accurate and just voting</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: No, I really think that if a lot of citizens really believe that teh RA ought to change the procedure of the meeting to better serve the citizen's wishes... how can I possibly be against that idea? <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> if we find out after a while that it doesn't work out, we can always change it again.</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if you vote before facts are found</span><br />[10:55] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: you lose the merit of the result</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Ok, stui has had 15 minutes</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: very true imho, Gwyn!</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: citizens can contribute at any time. this is just a populist stunt. that's why it should be opposed</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: hehe Pat <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Orange"><span style="font-style: italic">Kaseido Quandry raises an eyebrow</span></span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or pat it's the fairest approach</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and it stops us as being seen to be arrogant</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or dismissive of people's views</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: they voted us here</span><br />[10:56] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I suggest that this poitnt &quot;concerns of citizen&quot; has a time limit of 15 minutes</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: motion to end discussion on this and actually vote on something</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: the least we can do is listen to them</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Arria's suggestion</span></span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: lol, i had a call and just read up</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: second</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes, this whole pixleated &quot;nation&quot; thing is an experiment!</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: we have just opened up extra time for citizens concerns, this is unnecessary</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we vote n this point</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: aye</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: aye</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: aye</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: sure, aye</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: RA members please vote on the amendment</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: aye</span><br />[10:57] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: aye</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: AP can you clarify what it is I am voting on</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: yes, what is the proposal?</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: please ?</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Being voted upon: &quot;I suggest that this poitnt &quot;concerns of citizen&quot; has a time limit of 15 minutes.&quot;</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I can't work out if I'm voting to end discussion</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we are amendng your proposal by setting a time limit of 15 minutes</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: wait, did you all just turn a discussion raised to bring citizen concerns to the top of RA meetings into a vote that limited the time of citizen comments?</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: but not the meeting order?</span><br />[10:58] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: later we can vote on your proposal</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: imao at the beginning ot the session</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Hush, Solomon <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: right?</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: not yet on the order of the agenda</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: then aye</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: sigh</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: FAAHHHHH!!!!</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: so it's just for the 15 mins</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: ?</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: uh-huh</span><br />[10:59] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or are we voting to amend the order too ?</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or is that a subsequent vote ?</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Unfortunately, we have problems with disruptions and stalling</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: if the amendment is voted, yes</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: (sorry it's been a tough week)</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: aye</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: sorry I just wanted to be clear</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Imotali and Caro?</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: 15 mins is reasonable, aye</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I spend so many days getting up at the crack of dawn</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I vote aye</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and so many late nights</span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: If these things stop, we can loosen things up <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[11:00] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: did we lose caro?</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Mmh that was unanimous...</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: think so <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Ah...</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ha, no wonder CDS and AA is losing residents over this horse shit</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: caro has been gone for a long time</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Solomon!</span><br />[11:01] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: so your proposal has been modified with a time limit of 15 min</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: they see the CDS old boys club and get sick</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Ok... so we can vote on the precise point on the agenda that this will be?</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: didn´t we have a time limit anyway?</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: Sonja!</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: this is my first time serving and there are many women here...so how is it &quot;old boys?&quot;</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: lol</span><br />[11:02] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*</span></span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: concerns of citizen at the begining of the agenda</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: you never know in SL <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: haaha</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: true, true, Lilith <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ahhhaaa</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thats funny lil</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I wonder if I am grouped with teh old boys</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It's odd anyone thinks we're a good old boys club, I wonder where they get the idea?</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I'd sooner be a young tart than an old boy</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: *LOL*</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: rofl</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: could we allow the LRA to conduct the vote? and be quiet pls?</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: not to say that women who are young are tarts</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: lol stui</span><br />[11:03] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks mike</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but it rather seems to form a better contrast than prim young lady</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: anyway--- yes, let's proceed with the vote to change the order of the agenda</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: so the proposal is now &quot;concerns of citizen at the begining of the RA agenda with a time limit of 15 min&quot;</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: second</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I propose or second it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or vote</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: depending on need</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: you have a second, Stui</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we vote</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I'm enthusiastic</span><br />[11:04] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: nay</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: aye</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: aye</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: aye</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: aye</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: aye</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: nay</span><br />[11:05] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Imotali, Caro?</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I vote nay</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: motions carries</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: gelf?</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: aye</span><br />[11:06] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: aye</span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Of course, the fun bit is that RA members are citizens too, so they can use thise 15 minutes too <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: 7 aye, 3 nay, one missing vote</span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles* @ the loophole</span></span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: wow, mike voted and i never saw arias lips move</span><br />[11:07] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: they're getting better</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I will adapt the next meeting agenda and inform citizen of this</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: there was no concerns</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: can we move to adjourn?</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: sure, I'll second that <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /></span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: aye</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: aye</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: aye</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: aye</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: aye</span><br />[11:08] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: aye</span><br />[11:09] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: aye</span><br />[11:09] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: aye</span><br />[11:09] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: We are adjourned. thank you for this meeting</span>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (mikeloserevi)</author>
            <category>Representative Assembly Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=24&amp;t=2753</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:32:13 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2753&amp;p=14422#p14422</guid>
        </item>
        <item>
            <title>Representative Assembly Discussion :: RA Meeting 7 march 2010: Transcript - Part 1 :: Author ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2752&amp;p=14421#p14421</link>
            <description><![CDATA[[9:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Thank you for coming at the meeting. We can start</span><br />[9:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I have published an agenda in the forum and this agenda is available in the amphora</span><br />[9:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&amp;t=2733">viewtopic.php?f=2&amp;t=2733</a><!-- l --></span><br />[9:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: We begin with the adminitrative part. First point: Get agreements to record session.</span><br />[9:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Please clic on the recorder to consent to be recorded</span><br />[9:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Thank you</span><br />[9:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Second point: Review this agenda</span><br />[9:07] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: these seats upset me</span><br />[9:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Any remark or change?</span><br />[9:07] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: they cut thru my ankles</span><br />[9:08] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Oh I get that. It sizist!</span><br />[9:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: no changes?</span><br />[9:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: so I consider this agenda is ok.</span><br />[9:08] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It looks good to me</span><br />[9:08] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Next point: Inquire for speakers on today's agenda items.</span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Reserve</span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: ha <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Fern <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Hello Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: Indigo"><span style="font-weight: bold">Jeroma Wycliffe</span>: Fern <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: who want to speak? I ask especially the non-RA members</span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: hi everyone</span><br />[9:09] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: hi Pip and Fern!</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I notice that Soro has asked to speak. For wichi point, SOro?</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: you can sit on my knee if you like Stui</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: nice wig</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: All, it depends.</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: who is in a wig ?</span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-style: italic">Solomon Mosely rolls his eyes...</span></span><br />[9:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Well my hair's my own</span><br />[9:11] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Last point of the administrative part: Representative Assembly Rules of Procedure</span><br />[9:12] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I would like to remind that these rules concern also the non-RA members. This is the text:</span><br />[9:12] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: All meetings of the RA will be public, and all citizens of CDS are welcome to attend and participate. Non-citizens are welcome too, but they should listen only, and not speak. If non-member residents disrupt proceedings, they should be subject to actions which may end in being Teleported Home and Banned from CDS.</span><br />[9:12] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281">http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281</a><!-- m --></span><br />[9:12] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: wow, i never saw that quoted in here before</span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: So shaddap you citizens! :{</span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's part of the put up and shut up policy</span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: is that a warning shot?</span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: It applies only to non-citizens.</span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: &quot;all citizens of CDS are welcome to attend and participate&quot;</span><br />[9:13] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: phone brb</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: We alonly want to have our meetings in good conditions</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's rather a contradiction isn't it Pat ?</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: every two weeks there are town halls</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: You can move to overule the chair if it becomes an issu.</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: no, not really</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, good thing we're discussing the terms of citizenship today</span><br />[9:14] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: participation in silence</span><br />[9:15] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I have a last point: Gwyn has asked for a 7-days vote for all points to vote</span><br />[9:15] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: mmph mmmph</span><br />[9:15] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: like inaction but asking things to be done</span><br />[9:15] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: what does that mean?</span><br />[9:15] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: the 7 day vote...</span><br />[9:15] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I don't appreciate people implying the RA is somehow repressive of free speech, We are most certainly not</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: hear hear mike</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: I think it is moving in that direction</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Gwyn has 7 days to cast her vote</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: solo, it means we give ppl 7 days to vote on issues so that all RA members can vote</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: No, Gwyn doesn't want 7 day votes for me. So no 7 day votes for Gwyn. Move to vote on that!</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can move to the items from the prior meeting</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: No, move to vote!</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: second</span><br />[9:16] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: you are out of order caro</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: IHow so P at?</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: you can't vote to deny someone a 7-day vote. read the rules of procedure</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Gwyn is on record as wishing to deny me 7 day vores</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: were you actually denied 7 days?</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that's not really relevant caro</span><br />[9:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: That is not the point</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: CAro it's all in the interests of fairness isn't it ?</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: We were moving on with last week's business, if caro and stui don't mind</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: No votes for anti-democrats</span><br />[9:18] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: a. Report of the Portal/Forum Workgroup (Keila Forager)</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Arria is LRA</span><br />[9:19] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I look in the public. Keila is not present to present her report</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I know that thw working group has met last week</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I was not able to attend, but the transcript is in the forum</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: pat, could you post a link to the procedures for 7-day votes, please?</span><br />[9:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i'm just curious now</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I propose we postpone this report for a next meeting if the working is still willing to present it.</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: sure. let me find it first!</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks pat</span><br />[9:21] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: That sounds reasonable, keila may not have realized she was on the agenda</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: possible</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: any second for this proposal?</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: second</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´m IMing with her at the moment</span><br />[9:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: is she willing to come?</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I gave her TP</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Even better</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: If Pat finds a procedure guareteeing 7 day votes for all RA members, I will move to censure Gwyn for proposing to deny me a 7 day vote.</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: Hi Keila <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Hi still rezzing</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Keila, do you want to present your report now?</span><br />[9:23] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Sure..</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I propose we hear Keila <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2729">viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2729</a><!-- l --></span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: second <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: that is the link from the 3rd meeting..</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: anyone ne against?</span><br />[9:24] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: The 2nd meeting no one came to or responded to me..</span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Keila, you have thee floor</span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn arrives late and apologises... sorry all</span></span><br />[9:25] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: although I missed it too due to rl issues..</span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: hi gwyn</span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: We had a great mock up of what the portal could be from a citizen, but she has since left CDS..a few days before the meeting</span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: who left Keila ?</span><br />[9:26] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I'm working on something now, which should do what we want..</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Rather not say Stui...</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and someone has been adding to the present portal but I have no knowledge of who..</span><br />[9:27] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: they haven't contacted me ..</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: incidentally, I may need access to it, as archivist</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I don't currently have access</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Well I don't have access to the current one either</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I am surprised, Mikelo</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: and no idea who is working on it</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: no offense, but it's looking more and more clutttered</span><br />[9:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I got a confirmation you had an acces from the webmaster</span><br />[9:29] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'll double check, no one contacted me</span><br />[9:29] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I will post a new meeting date and at that time will invite others to see what we are working on</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I'm done</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Thank you, Keila</span><br />[9:30] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: Questions?</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: any questions from RA members to Keila?</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Sure, what sort of changes were you proposing to the existing site,?</span><br />[9:31] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: if it not the case, we wait for your invitation, Keila</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: sorry, Mikela</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: I'm post the meeting time on the forum..</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Mikelo*</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It's ok, I had my eyes elsewhere for a sec</span><br />[9:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I mean in general, keila, are you thinking of changing the portal engine, or just the look?</span><br />[9:33] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Keila?</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: keeping all the present info and addding spots for the community to contribute, so probably the whole thing, so it's easy to transfer administrative duties and easy for all to use</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: an other question?</span><br />[9:34] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: come to the next meeting if you are interested in helping...that is an open invitation for all</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: &quot;the whole thing&quot;, menaing abandoning Typo3 as engine, selecting a new one, and moving all content over? (sorry, I'm just rephrasing Mikelo's question to see if we understand that right)</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: But granted... perhaps this would be better for the meeting...</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: yes</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Ok, keila <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />)</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: thank you <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you again, Keila</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: I hope that at least we get some design specs this time hehe</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Next point</span><br />[9:35] <span style="color: Teal"><span style="font-weight: bold">Keila Forager</span>: bye</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Thank keila</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: bye Keila <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: thankyou Keila</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: bye Keila</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: b. Report of the Town Hall Meeting</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and have a good evening <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: bye Keila <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pat, can you say some words about Town Halls? We had already two</span><br />[9:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: sure</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: *giggles*</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i'll look to solomon to fill in on some of the details</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: we had a good discussion at last week's meeting about commerce in the CDS</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: *thinks of rhyming slang*</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: we talked about having a kiosk/business board in each sim to advertise businesses</span><br />[9:37] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Kindly don't disrupt, stui</span><br />[9:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: and solomon has called meetings to revive the CDS Traders' Association to get business input into these ideas</span><br />[9:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: that's all from me on the last meeting <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:38] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you, Pat</span><br />[9:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Mikelo - I am constantly reminded of the need for humour at these proceedings <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I think the Town Halls a re a good experienc</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if the LRA permits I shall be amusing</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can move to new items</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Yes: A good laugh every now and then would be wonderful.</span><br />[9:39] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and not a bailiff...</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: a. Compatibility between the position of caretaker and RA membership</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I give the word to our Chancellor, as it is a request from her</span><br />[9:40] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Sonja, you have the floor</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Honourable Members of the RA...</span><br />[9:41] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: for the past couple of years Lilith Ivory and I have been the Caretakers in the CDS.</span><br />[9:42] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: This is a position reporting to the Executive Branch,</span><br />[9:42] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: that is the Chancellor.</span><br />[9:42] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: As I am now Chancellor I will still be doing the duties of this role of Caretaker,</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but will not actually have that position,</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: as a civil servant.</span><br />[9:43] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Now Lilith has become a member of the Representative Assembly.</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Can an elected official also hold a appointed post?</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Both she and I would like for her to continue in her role of Caretaker,</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: but we are bringing this as a request to the RA, that she have allowance from the RA to be in both roles -</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: what does the role of Caretaker involve?</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: RA Member and Caretaker.</span><br />[9:44] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: I see no reason not to allow someone to be both a caretaker and a RA member</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: as the Caretaker makes no decisions about anything.</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: The Caretaker simply removes litter on public land,</span><br />[9:45] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: notifies private land owners if it seems like litter might be on their land,</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and helps the Chancellor to keep the community good looking and working well.</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Lilith has been a wonderful Caretaker up to now,</span><br />[9:46] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: and it is my hope and request that the RA will support her continuing to be.</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: Thank you.</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It doesn't sound like a conflict of interest</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: Like Sonja, I see no conflict</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I move to allow the dual roles for Sonja and Lilith</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i can't really see a problem with this</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: It ain't broke, why fix it?</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: second</span><br />[9:47] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Oh my. This is a tricky one. In fact, I'd say it's something for the SC to untangle. You see, the issue is that RA members ought not to be civil servants <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: But I'll hush and abstain on the legalities... hehe</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: umm</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have to vote now</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: please yes</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ell, legalities ae what this RA is for, right?</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: do ewe arria?</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: aye</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: gwen,</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: the SC can veto our decision</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: aye</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: we're in a vote. i vote aye</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: exactly, Arria.</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: what conflict is there for those of us that dont know it?</span><br />[9:48] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains</span></span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Aye</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: ahh... of course, the sc</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: abstains</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: well, I think we have to be realistic that we dont have a community of thousands...so people are going to sometimes have to do duel roles if things are to work...even in in RL it probably wouldnt be allowed</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: the sc</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: aye</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: is wnyone here on the sc?</span><br />[9:49] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: anyone*</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: as I said, 'ain't broke' vote aye.</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we are still voting</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: anyone?</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: if it's illegal the vote wouldn't count though</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: solomon, perhaps you could follow up with gwyn after the meeting?</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: whether it's aye or not</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and i am still asking about who here is on the sc</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: sure</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: we'll deal with legal formalities after the legal formalities</span><br />[9:50] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: don't think there is an SC present</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: other votes?</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: Gwyneth as former Dean and longest standing member would have the best insight into the possible illegality</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: none that matter for 5 more months</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Who is left to vote?</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Stui, Timo, Imotali and I</span><br />[9:51] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Oh, thanks, Sylvia, but my opinion as &quot;former Dean&quot; doesn't matter much lol</span><br />[9:52] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: aye</span><br />[9:52] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'm sure we all value your opinion, gwyn, and don't intend to step on any toes</span><br />[9:53] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks mike</span><br />[9:53] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have 6 aye, 2 abstains until now (so motion carries)</span><br />[9:53] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I vote aye</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: aye</span><br />[9:54] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: i vote aye, for now</span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: If it turns out this vote was inappropriate somehow, I'm sure we can roll it back, or be overridden by the SC</span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you, I have casted all votes</span><br />[9:55] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: 9 aye and 2 abstains</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: good point, the sc</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: motion carries</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: when was thier last bi-weeklymeeting?</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: if it turns out to be illegal I´m willing to step back from tht office any time</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: perhaps the reformation of the sc would be in order</span><br />[9:56] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: The RA doesn't see any problem if one RA member is caretaker. The SC can take an other decision of course</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: what sc?</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It doesn't strike me that cleaning up will lead to corruption, but one never knows</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Solomon!!!!</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*</span></span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks mike</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: ㋡</span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-style: italic">Pip Torok tries to stop guffaw</span></span><br />[9:57] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=sc0">http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=sc0</a><!-- m --></span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: DimGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sonja Strom</span>: hahaa</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: sorry, i just dont see any posts from them since the election announcements</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: The portal has a lot of information, including a description of the Scientific Council</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: they don't have to post to exist</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: and if they are the gaurdians of cds law, maybe we need tehm to be active</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: or meet</span><br />[9:58] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: solomon, perhaps you could follow up with an SC member after this meeting?</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: but they have to post their meetings</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: well, i bring it up now, beacusae</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: who do they answer to?</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn polishes the old Impeachment Wand, &quot;Mmmh... still working, goodie&quot;</span></span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: no one</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Sylvia! <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: lol</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: members of SC: Aliasi Stonebender as Dean, Delia Lake, Claude Desmoulins, Danton Sideways and Dnate Mars</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Noooo they answer to the RA <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: it's a good thing</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: sorry</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: SandyBrown"><span style="font-weight: bold">Sylvia Tinkel</span>: will stop interrupting if Solomon does</span><br />[9:59] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: .. in the sense that if they don't behave, we can impeach them <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we can move to the next point</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Yes, please, Arria <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: b. Definition of citizen</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Mikelo has proposed this point to the ageda. I give the floor to him</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Thank you</span><br />[10:00] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: My main purpose in proposing the point was to open discussion here</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: See how others feel we should proceed</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I think it's a very important task and we should get started if we want to continue merging with AA</span><br />[10:01] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: i thought we already did</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Well, we have been dealing with other things</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: But this has been a sticking point in the merger</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: could you outline what the major issues are mikelo? why is citizenship a sticking point?</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: (the trial period of the merger ends n ext June, Solomon)</span><br />[10:02] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: right</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: What I mean is, the definition of a citizen is supposed to come from owning land</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: then it's stick or twist</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: But many own land as part of a group, for example</span><br />[10:03] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It's not clear that we should deny them this right</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: But on the other hand, should someone who joins a group of 300 suddenly be eligible to vote?</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-style: italic">Pip Torok raises hand</span></span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Yes, I'd like to hear from others in the RA</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pip have asked to speak</span><br />[10:04] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: Madame LRA?</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pip, you have the floor</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: Okay</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I am having a bit of trouble with my internet connection.</span><br />[10:05] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* after Pip</span></span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: ok, Gwyn</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: right ... 2 points .... i agree with mikelo as to its crucial importance ... and note the suggestion (from Sudane) that it be based on _who _ pays the tier for the land .... and finally respectfully suggest that a workingparty of mikelo Arria Sudane and myself might provide a quick solution</span><br />[10:06] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: done</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Hmmm, no one from SEED?</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have a proposal, but I suggest we continue the discussion before to find a second or vote</span><br />[10:07] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Gwyn has the floor</span><br />[10:08] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees with Mikelo. Also, the notion about &quot;owning land&quot; has been questioned last term (and I changed my opinion after some very good argumentation <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ). Is &quot;owning land&quot; buying a parcel, or paying land fees? The latter seems to be the more logical choice, since the land price fluctuates (as owners set the price, not the Government, after the first sale), while land fees don't)</span></span><br />[10:08] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: wd be glad to have a SEED member in it (speaking personally)</span><br />[10:08] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Ack, I had pre-typed that but I see I'm pretty much making the same point.</span><br />[10:08] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: &quot;But on the other hand, should someone who joins a group of 300 suddenly be eligible to vote?&quot; People who join much smaller groups are entitled to stand for office!</span><br />[10:08] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: So, yes, I think it's worth changing the definition of citizenship; and actually I had a proposal for a bill posted on the forums.</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: You mean outside the CDS; Caro?</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: No Gwyn I don't</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: agree Caro ... thats why whoever pays tier .. wd obviate that problem</span><br />[10:09] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I wonder if CDS can really have the luxury of choosing to further limit citizenship when it already struggles to fill posts</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: CDS might struggle Stui, AA does not. The same applies to land.</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Sorry... &quot;/nod and agrees with Mikelo. Also, the notion about &quot;owning land&quot; has been questioned last term (and I changed my opinion after some very good argumentation <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ). Is &quot;owning land&quot; buying a parcel, or paying land fees? The latter seems to be the more logical choice, since the land price</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: oops</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to open</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: grr</span><br />[10:10] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Then I don't understood what you meant, Caro <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: And my grammar sucks today... :O</span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Sl does that somehow</span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Stui, the question about group ownership (which, btw, is allowed) is not because we want &quot;more citizens at any price&quot;, but because of enforcement of the laws.</span><br />[10:11] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i'm not sure i understand the proposal that it's 'whoever pays tier'. when does someone become a citizen then?</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: One point Id like to make in fron of the RA: ... that the citizen count be easy to obtain by all parties</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: It was felt that citizenship ought to be based on something that people value. iRL it's physical freedom. We can't limit that in SL, so the second best choice we found was... the purse <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: *front</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i agree with that pip</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I still think that we don't have enough citizens to start looking to exclude</span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn most heartily agrees with that too, Pip!</span></span><br />[10:12] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: I meant Gwyn that other factions accepted people as potential candidates when they were not land-owners in the the sense of voting qualifications,. I mean that such persons are claiming to hold office in AA when they don't live there!</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's not like we are overrun</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Ah, Caro! Sorry...I *see* <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /></span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: you could draw it more widely stui, you could let anyone who joins the CDS and AA groups be a citizen. but would you set any barrier on voting?</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: Stui ... suppose 200 Coptic Christians had suddenly become citizens?</span><br />[10:13] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: No AA IS over run, in-so-far as AA land is always full, CDS land remains empty.</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I think that if you looked at the % of active citizens per group</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: you'd find that the number is not probably so high</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Stui, any change of the citizenship status will have to change the ground, the base of law enforcement. If you find out a valid way to enforce the code of laws without going to people's purses, please tell us — just because in the past we never figured out a way, it doesn't mean that there isn't an alternative!</span><br />[10:14] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I am myself member of groups for no other reason than diplomacy with the group founder</span><br />[10:15] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: caro: what do you think is a good way to increase the numbers of people being active in the CDS, what is your proposal as to citizenship?</span><br />[10:15] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I admit that some people pay a higher % of tier for their privileges</span><br />[10:15] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but then I also own to knowing that some people couldn't afford tier</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and yet would want to be active citizens</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: what of those people ?</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: There is only one level of privilege though, citizen</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: how do we qualify the enthusiastic ? are they in some way less than the rich ?</span><br />[10:16] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: I think we discussed that before, Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Sorry, I don't buy the argument that someone owns a compuyer and a broadband connection, both able to run SL to be &quot;active citizens&quot;, and cannot afford half a dollar monthly <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: disposible income is an issue</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i agree gwyn, no one by that definition is in any way 'poor'</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: good point, Gwyn</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: 6 dollars per year! That's what costs to be a citizen in the SL! If you don't even have that...</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: that is the reason for the privations of the recession</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and also</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-style: italic">Pip Torok agrees with pat and gwyn</span></span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Come *on*, Stui <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: I think that the best way to resolve the AA citizenship issue is to use the WASp Option Gelf!</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: Seriously <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I think we have cheap parcels and we can have others</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: it's one cup of cappucino at starbuck's a week</span><br />[10:17] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: we do have people from really rather poor nations who have access to a PC</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but do not get paid in dollars</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: sorry for my ignorance, what is the WASp option?</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: I'll be more than happy to pay them 6 US dollars per annum to have them be citizens <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /></span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: The WASP option is that AA de-merges from CDS after one year</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: If any such people want to join the CDS, I'd like to hear form them</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if we as landed citizens are to be the only voting party</span><br />[10:18] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: or that the CDS votes to end the merger <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: then that is restrictive</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if there is a nominal fee</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's still rather unfair</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: as it cannot be qualified as being within the reach of all people</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: I propose that citizenship be based on the payment of tier and/or Landfees</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I think it's fair enough</span><br />[10:19] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and laws are laws that are fair to all people</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: not just the fortunate</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: the point is that people who own land who pay tier have a stake in the community. open access just leads to abuse</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: okay, I just want to follow what is being said....are you stating Stui that you want citizenship to be open to anyone?</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: well pip, did you want to start the working group?</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: I think that's a different question. Basing citizenship on the ability to enforce the code of laws based on payments is just ONE option. As said (and I repeat myself), just because in the past 6 years we didn't find a better solution, it doesn't mean there is none. So... in the case of NOT having any kind of fees... what would be the base of enforcement?</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: SlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arias Ahren</span>: I have a small studio in Aa and a small piece of land next to Caro and Pip. I assume that mekes me eligible for citizenship. Yes?</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Ok. Mikelo wated to open the discussion and I think his goal is reached</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: (true, Arria <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> )</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Yes, I know I made a bit of a mess</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: yes i do want to start the workgroup if Mikelo agrees</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: whas there been a group recently that is trying to have a lrge number of people voting on something?</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: what has sparked this debate?</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: But I wanted to test the waters</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I thik we have to go further</span><br />[10:20] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: can't someone who doesn't have enough money work as a civil servent in the CDS and earn their fees?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pip has made a proposal</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: if citizenship is free, then it would be very cheap to have an army of alts here...</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: yes, Gelf!</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: a working group</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: shall i repeat it?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: what of the time constraints ?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: quite gelf <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pip, do you want to define again your proposal?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: not all people have time regularly ?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: I propose that citizenship be based on the payment of tier and/or Landfees</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: hold on pip</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i thought the proposal was to have a working group?</span><br />[10:21] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thank you pat</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I thought we were going to form a working group to consider it further</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Pat</span></span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Oh please. The CDS political hacks don't want al-Andalus except as a crippled rump on their terms. For AA citizens the best course is to cut CDS loose and let you sink!</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: hehe</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It's a huge question</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: you did propose a working group first</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: i repropose</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: i don't think i'm ready to change our citizenship rules right now</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: yes, do it Pip</span><br />[10:22] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: I propse that the RA formn a workinggroup on Defining Citizenship</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: any second?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I have a query of this</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: second</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Barring all other citizens?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: the names mentioned before</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: are they the working group ?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: yes</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: thank you Mikelo</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or is this a proposal to form a working group ?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: yes</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: of undefined names ?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or of your previous statement Pip?</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: the names I mentioned before</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: caro, the RA may represent the politically ambitious among us, but not necessarily the people's wishes</span><br />[10:23] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: so is Caro the only one who doesn't want things to work between AA and the CDS? Are there others here whose purpose is not to try to make things better for all?</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-style: italic">Patroklus Murakami assumes the working group will hold open meetings which anyone can attend</span></span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: yes ... assumption is right</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: The whole point is to serve the people</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I would like to know the status of the people mentioned</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: they are RA members</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: would they be equal to the audience or above?</span><br />[10:24] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with the proposal, but it ought to have a &quot;head&quot; — that's the person responsible to summarise its results to the RA <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span></span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: are they a joint chair ?</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: I propose Mikelo be the head</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or is there one appointed chair ?</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: except Sudane <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /></span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: In the end, the RA will vote on the work group's proposal, I should think</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I ask this</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Pip, can you rename the members?</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: purely in the interests of my faction</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: as we were rather seen as irrelevant</span><br />[10:25] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: yes Arria Mikelo an Pip Torok</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and while we are invited to join</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: we have not been asked to be part of this proposal</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: but you are as part of an open meeting Stu</span><br />[10:26] <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Carolyn Saarinen</span>: Gelf Yalin = &quot;CDS political hacks don't want al-Andalus except as a crippled rump on their terms.&quot; You don't know my city. You don't love my city. You don't matter to me.</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: yes, why no cal for interested volunteers for the work group?</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: why are we proposing a group</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: with one as chair</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: the meetings will be open to all for crying out loud</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Not with a voice</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: with specific names put forward ?</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: turn up, participate, get on with it!</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: It's too much work for an RA meeting, I think, that's why stui</span><br />[10:27] <span style="color: DarkSlateBlue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Soro Dagostino</span>: Just as a yammering crowd</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: what is the special qualification of these nominees Pip ?</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: I am not arguing with you Caro, I am just expressing concern</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: The proposal is a working group with Arria Mikelo and Pip whose goal is to bring to the RA a proposal about CDS citizenship</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: why have any more than a chair ?</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: you only need a chair to sit the meeting</span><br />[10:28] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if it is so disadvantageous to have a position over and above the common audience</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: unless it is for the prestige of course</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: arria is concer ned ... mikelo put the mortion .. and i in the dpu regard it as high-priority</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and then I shall say we should produce badges</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and Pip</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: I would like CDS and AA to try to at least give this the best chance possible to work together and make the best thing possible....if it doesn't work out fine but shouldn't we at least give it our best shot?</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: are Seed not concerned ?</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: stui, if you want in, jut ask to be a part of the work group</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Shall we invite a seed member to join the working group, pip?</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: nice of you mike</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: Caro: if you think there is a way for CDS to improve citizenship please let us know</span><br />[10:29] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: I really truly do want to know</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: yes ... will someone in SEED* come forward?</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I personally am concerned that stui will have us splitting hairs</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: depending on availability</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I will be there</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Lilith, are you interested?</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: but not as less than I am now</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: and Mikelo</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I am an RA member just as you are</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-style: italic">Gwyneth Llewelyn quotes the RA Meeting Procedures (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281">http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281</a><!-- m -->): on point 5: &quot;Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions.&quot; So, yes, we ought to have a SEED* member in it.</span></span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I have a right to involvement</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: I´d second Stui as a member of that work group as he knows more about AA</span><br />[10:30] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: with or without your mandate</span><br />[10:31] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: Since there concern with merger, yes an AA member should chair too.</span><br />[10:31] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: now we have a representant from each faction and a head</span><br />[10:31] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: at least one citizen of Al Andalus should be part of that work group</span><br />[10:31] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I respectfully ask that you do not further undermine my integrity or suitability for office</span><br />[10:31] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: LOL!</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: can we vote about the workgroup now?</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: respectfully, stui, often it feels like you are mocking these proceedings</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I don't appreciate it</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: yes, please</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if you say so Mikelo</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if it can be so easily mocked</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: My proposal: that Mikelo, Arria, Stui and myself form a workingpartgy on Citizen definition which is open to CDS residents</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's fragile indeed</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: second</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: members: Mikelo (head), Stui, Pip, Arria</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we vote now</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: aye</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Red"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gelf Yalin</span>: aye</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: RA members who agree, pay say aye</span><br />[10:32] <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-weight: bold">Timo Gufler</span>: aye</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: aye</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: Olive"><span style="font-weight: bold">Imotali Antiesse</span>: aye</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I have a question</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: aye</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: Blue"><span style="font-weight: bold">Gwyneth Llewelyn</span>: aye</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: pls wait til after the vote tor <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /></span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-weight: bold">Lilith Ivory</span>: aye</span><br />[10:33] <span style="color: SeaGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">muhammedyussif Wikinger</span>: afk</span><br />[10:34] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Caro, Stui?</span><br />[10:34] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: could I as a cat and curious</span><br />[10:34] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: I think the group should report on how this change will affect voiting registration. Would that be possible?</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Yes, that's the whole point</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: sorry I was gonna ask LRA if it were possible to hear Tor's question</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: before voting</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: other votes?</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: Aye</span><br />[10:35] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: well ... it wd provide the BASIS for giving citizens a ready-reference of who is a citizen and how many there are</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: No, it should report on where there have been problems and how various sims will loose voting residents.</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Caro?</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: I vote aye</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: like a percentage board of CDS sims Tor ?</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: to show the losses</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: yes</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: that seems fair</span><br />[10:36] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: why would sims lose voting residents tor?</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: we have 10 aye, motion carries</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it's transparent</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: I'm not sure we have existing numbers</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: Mikelo, we wait for your invitation</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: Well there seems to be a problem with members of groups voiting</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: since we have no real definition</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: I suppose I can see why it would be an issue</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: for this to be a valid issue there must have been some abuses</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: the wasp clause</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: if AA lost most of it's votes</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: or CDS</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thats what i was wondering tor</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: Black"><span style="font-weight: bold">Arria Perreault</span>: We are finished with this point</span><br />[10:37] <span style="color: YellowGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tor Karlsvalt</span>: or there is a practice in some sims to allow non landed people to be citizens.</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: then how could the wasp clause be effectively voted through fairly ?</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mikelo Serevi</span>: Thanks Arria</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Green"><span style="font-weight: bold">Patroklus Murakami</span>: good grief. is that what ppl think this is for? to deny AA citizens votes?</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkSlateGray"><span style="font-weight: bold">Pip Torok</span>: not that i know of, Tor</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: Sienna"><span style="font-weight: bold">StuiChicanne Darkstone</span>: it would rather have to be done under the old rules to be fair</span><br />[10:38] <span style="color: DarkOrange"><span style="font-weight: bold">Solomon Mosely</span>: thanks mike</span>]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (mikeloserevi)</author>
            <category>Representative Assembly Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=24&amp;t=2752</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:31:17 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&amp;t=2752&amp;p=14421#p14421</guid>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Arguing Country :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14420#p14420</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Prokofy has long expressed his idea that the current slide towards a world where fanatical Islamism (which all rational people know to be an infinitesimal proportion of the world population — they just happen to capture a lot of prime time on TV) is related to the way that most European countries try to adopt &quot;soft&quot; measures against radical extremism, and a policy that focus on making the countries where radical extremists are likely to live more rich, improving their quality of life, instead of selling them a package of morals. Prok calls this a mix of technocratic communism and Euro-Arabic thinking, or something like that, and he argues that the current state of the &quot;war on terror&quot; has been aggravated by the &quot;softness&quot; of European politics. Extrapolating from that, he sees projects like Al Andalus, which is an historical and cultural representation of the tolerance of the Caliphate during what has been the Golden Age of Islamic civilisation, science, and culture, to be an &quot;insidious plot&quot; to bring European &quot;softness&quot; into the US mindset, by exposing Americans to what he considers a dangerous, misleading way of white-washing a problem...<br /><br />Seriously, he does believe those things. He's not just pretending to believe them to troll forums and blogs. The scary thing is that he's not the only one thinking that way, but he certainly doesn't flinch from making sure that everybody knows his position. Since it stems from an irrational belief that is deeply emotionally ingrained in his own personal world-view, it's impossible to argue with him otherwise. The notion that the Caliphate was the best example of freedom, democracy, and religious tolerance in a very backwards-thinking 10-12th century Europe (which, after an equivalent period during the Roman Empire, definitely collapsed into obscurantism) simply fails to register with Prokofy <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> He only sees this as a devious plot to make terrorism &quot;palatable&quot; or something like that. Arguing with him that in that period of time the prevailing values of the &quot;Judeo-Christian ethics&quot; were based on internal terror, subjugation, and all-out warfare against all not sharing the same world-view, while Islam was patiently establishing what we would today see as a model of tolerant civilisation, simply fails to persuade Prok — and yes, <a href="http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2010/03/misunderstanding-islam.html" class="postlink">it immediately drives him to madness and rage</a> <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />As always, it's safest to ignore him and deal with <span style="font-style: italic">our</span> issues instead <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2736</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:28:26 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14420#p14420</guid>
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            <title>Business, Commerce and the Economy :: Re: Corporate-ness :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745&amp;p=14419#p14419</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Jamie, I loved to read your arguments, they make for quite interesting reading because I actually love your style, but they fail to persuade me...<br /><br />And this ultimately made me think a bit. Are we really able to persuade <span style="font-style: italic">everybody</span> that there is a <span style="font-style: italic">single</span> way of doing things? In effect, the argument is mostly whom do you trust more: single individuals and their reputation in their past 6 years and who are available almost 24/7; or a remotely managed real life organisation which not everybody will be able to join and very likely not have full access to it anyway?<br /><br />For many, the choice is clear that a real life organisation is inherently more trustful than single individuals, and no amount of argumentation will convince them otherwise. For many others, the notion that an anonymous organisation will have managing powers over the whole CDS, regardless of &quot;self-government&quot; or &quot;citizen support&quot;, is definitely not what they had in mind when joining the CDS.<br /><br />(Ironically, in my country, because organisations all have <span style="font-style: italic">limited liability</span>, many small merchants inherently <span style="font-style: italic">mis</span>trust organisations, since if they default on payment, there is a limit of what you can expect to get out of them; individuals, by contrast, have <span style="font-style: italic">un</span>limited liability, so in theory you can get every single cent back from them plus taxes and judicial fees <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> But I digress...)<br /><br />The two options are incompatible. So... why don't we offer citizens the choice? As I said before, our current body of laws allow multiple EOs and a single Treasurer. So long as people know which sims are being run under a private organisation, and which are held by the citizens themselves, let them make the choice — not us for them. I really don't see a problem in giving citizens the choice; and they can always switch from island to island if they dislike the system for ethical reasons. In any case, from the perspective of &quot;life in the CDS&quot;, who pays the sim tier to LL is not really relevant — so long as it is paid. To be honest, the case where an organisation &quot;runs away with the sims&quot; or an individual &quot;runs away with the sims&quot; is, IMHO, quite similar: in either case, you'd have to file a lawsuit, with the difference that filing a lawsuit against an organisation <span style="font-style: italic">may</span> be easier than against an individual (although I'm not qualified to discuss why that should be the case; I'm just aware of my country's legal code, which makes no distinction between suing individuals and organisations, except that organisations, as said, have a limited liability, while individuals have not). Seriously, if we come to that point, I wouldn't really bother <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> It would be <span style="font-style: italic">far</span> easier to restore whatever content there is on the Content Archivist's account and set it up again from scratch, than to go the whole route and expense to file a lawsuit and wait for its completion...<br /><br />In any case, we're actually talking about a severe case of insanity (which obviously can happen). Who would like to have a bunch of sims without residents that everybody would quickly know they were &quot;stolen&quot;? What's the point? Reselling the sims in the 2nd-hand market would earn perhaps US$2000-3000 at best, and this is the kind of thing that a potential thief — organisation or individual — would only be able to pull off <span style="font-style: italic">exactly once</span>, and then have to face a lawsuit on top of that, for very likely far more than the return extracted from a quick sim sale on the 2nd-hand market (content in the old CDS sims was once estimated to be worth US$50k-100k in labour costs; but nobody would be able to &quot;steal&quot; that content and make that much money out of it!). The worst-case scenario would be someone with a milder level of insanity (e.g. a Ulrika mentality) that would just start deleting objects and spoil everything. But — this can happen today on any sim! A <span style="font-style: italic">lot</span> of people have this ability — not only EOs, but Estate Managers, and members of the building/land management groups too! With so many people actually able to delete the whole of the CDS and AA, this has in fact <span style="font-style: italic">never</span> happened, and while sudden spells of insanity might affect us all, I see that people worry far less of &quot;anyone being able to delete all content&quot; (which can happen at any time and is very easy to do) than about &quot;Estate Owners running away with the sims&quot; (which is pointless, hard to accomplish, and can only happen once)...<br /><br />And for those fearing the loss of access to Rudeen Edo, there might be technical ways to deal with recovering the password: either through an in-world object; using Pat's suggestion of informing Linden Lab of whom should pay for the islands in case Rudeen Edo misses a payment; depositing Rudeen's password with a notary or similar third party that gets notified in case something happens to Sudane; or something similar. As said, we <span style="font-style: italic">did</span> plan for this as early as September 2006, and those arrangements <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> in place.<br /><br />But I can imagine that no amount of &quot;arrangements&quot; or appeals to rationality will please <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> citizens. We're emotional beings. <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> So... let's stick to both systems at the same time, and let citizens choose which one they prefer.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>Business, Commerce and the Economy</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=20&amp;t=2745</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:06:05 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745&amp;p=14419#p14419</guid>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Arguing Country :: Reply by Jamie Palisades</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14418#p14418</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Arguing about policy :) Judging by the Forum word count of the last five days, it's hard to dispute that this is a favorite CDS activity for some.  <br /><br />I don't lump together Patroklus and Prokofy, and no one should.  Pat gave an informed set of opinions -- and we agree on most of them.  On one, free speech, I happen to disagree, and see his point as posturing, not sound analysis.  More on that in a later post.<br /><br />Unfortunately, though, Prok took that one mistakenly-worded whine of Pat's, and read it as luridly as possible, way out of proportion from Pat's meaning.  Prok has integrated that into a much larger sweep of crazy talk verging on racist.  <br /><br />What is it with this person, anyway?  Just seeing a bunch of people from four continents, creating a Spanish Arab settlement including Islamic, Christian and Jewish temples, seems to drive him into sputtering madness.    <br /><br />Ignore haters and let history be your guide.  Haters <span style="font-style: italic">*usually*</span> prefer separatism to ecumenism.  Accordingly to the overwhelming report of diverse professional historians, the &quot;Arab&quot; values in the Andalusian period were a model of tolerance and cooperation ... and the reaction of Prok's beloved &quot;Judeo-Christian ethics&quot; was the culture-smashing, genocidal torturefest called &quot;the Spanish Inquisition&quot;, which made George W. Bush look like an amateur.<br /><br />Here in CDS, let's assume we already know we support religious tolerance, and move on from that.  Let's just focus on the smaller, rational disagreement that Pat and I have.  <br />Which is about what free speech is.  Next post.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Jamie Palisades)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2736</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:51:27 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14418#p14418</guid>
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            <title>Business, Commerce and the Economy :: Re: Corporate-ness :: Reply by Patroklus Murakami</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745&amp;p=14417#p14417</link>
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><div><cite>Jamie Palisades wrote:</cite>Let's say that the person behind Sudane Erato, who also controls the estate-owning &quot;Rudeen Edo&quot; avatar, died suddenly.  (God forbid, she's a gem.)  Do you think Linden Labs would just happily hand over control of “Rudeen” to someone else in CDS?  All of the horrors Gwyn described – people shut out of their land, tier might expire, sims might be lost – would happen … except that, instead of a 50% chance, CDS would have <span style="font-weight: bold">zero</span> chance to fix it. </div></blockquote>Really? What evidence is there for this view?<br /><br />The same could be said of Caledon, or any other large estate. Desmond assures us (somewhat cryptically, as is his style) that he has 'made arrangements' should he be incapacitated or shuffle off this mortal coil. I see no reason why we could not make similar arrangements without the need for RL incorporation. If the person behind &quot;Rudeen&quot; has made her wishes known in advance, why wouldn't Linden Labs hand over control of the avatar (or transfer Estate Owner powers) to someone else in the CDS? It would allow one of Second Life's longest-lived projects to continue and tier (i.e. revenue) to continue to flow to LL. Their alternative would be to destroy SLs longest-lived experiment in virtual democracy and flog off the sim space. I don't see the latter as being that attractive!<br /><br />RL incorporation was an attractive concept when it meant a 50% tier reduction. If that is no longer one of the advantages, it's not worth it in my opinion.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Patroklus Murakami)</author>
            <category>Business, Commerce and the Economy</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=20&amp;t=2745</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:22:07 GMT</pubDate>
            <guid isPermaLink="false">http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745&amp;p=14417#p14417</guid>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Arguing Country :: Reply by Patroklus Murakami</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14416#p14416</link>
            <description><![CDATA[It's a neat trick, to lump Prok and me together, and hope that Prok's misinformed rant can be used to undermine the points I have made about the way in which the Al Andalus merger was pushed through. It's a rather underhand tactic though. I'm not responsible for Prok's attacks on the Al Andalus project.<br /><br />My interpretation of Prok's comments is somewhat different from Jamie's though. Prokofy picked up on the nonsense Michel Manen spouted when setting up AA about establishing an Islamic 'Caliphate' (which him as the self-styled Khalifah lording it over his virtual subjects). Prokofy refuses to believe that AA is no longer about a Caliphate. Well, it would help to counter that view if people had not used such stupid, provocative language in the first place.<br /><br />My opinion on the suppression of free speech in the CDS during the merger still stands. Jamie paints it as 'wanting to talk for hours' at RA meetings. Actually, it was more about *being allowed to ask questions* in an atmosphere free from intimidation and the stifling nonsense that *any* questioning of AAs democratic credentials was variously 'offensive', 'imperialist' or some other crap. This happened, to give just one example, when we tried to find out how AA would select the representatives to be added to the CDS Representative Assembly. That is a matter of fact and public record and, in my opinion, this represented an inhibiting effect on free speech. The RA members were told by those pushing the merger through &quot;don't ask too many questions or it will be off&quot;. Since everyone wanted the merger to go through people raised fewer questions than they wanted to.<br /><br />But the point of history is not to keep replaying the past (those who were in power are unlikely to agree with me that they suppressed dissent in the interests of the merger) but to learn from it. Next time a merger is mooted there will be questions. And these need to be articulated without people with a vested interest shouting them down as 'offensive', 'rude' or 'dumb'.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Patroklus Murakami)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2736</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:03:37 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Caliphs, Free Speech &amp; arguing :: Reply by Jamie Palisades</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14415#p14415</link>
            <description><![CDATA[For those who have missed it, Prok's rant is here:<br /><!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2010/03/misunderstanding-islam.html">http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/secon ... islam.html</a><!-- m --><br />I found two parts interesting.<br /><br />One is Prok's completely venomous, fact-free, hate-filled attack on the Al Andalus project.  His Arab-hating issues seethe from the page.<br />And now that CDS and AA have merged, Prokofy calls <span style="font-style: italic">all of CDS</span> an evil, democracy-killing Caliphate.   <br /><br />(Presently, it's run by a German, with a socialist-majority legislature chaired by a Swiss woman.)<br /><br />The other was Prok's gleeful announcement that CDS has killed free speech. <br />He said that because our Patroklus blogged it, in his own blog.<br />It appears that Pat said that, because, during the AA debates last year, while I was Chancellor and he was out of power, the RA did not let him talk for hours about the merger plan.<br />CDS has no free speech problem.  That political principle is well defined in the real world. A &quot;free speech&quot; loss is when you lose property, or safety, or the right to speak in public forums, due to your opinions.    <br />And in CDS no one has the right to interfere with postings to the Forums, political campaigns, etc. etc., either.<br />We did have a problem where some of our members wanted to talk <span style="font-style: italic">at RA meetings</span>  longer than agenda time permitted.  In 2009. Pat and Gwyn really wanted to talk -- a lot -- about going slow on Al Andalus, and how the transition would work, and so on.  The LRA had to cut them off sometimes;  and I told them on several occasions that I thought their questions were rude or dumb.  But we don't call that &quot;free speech violations&quot;;  we call that &quot;disagreements&quot;.  Or &quot;politics.&quot;   It's amusing to see that Prokofy picked up on Pat's fretting, and uses it as evidence that CDS is now a mullah-driven, dissenter-crushing Taliban. <br /><br />(I'm not sure that a turban &amp; veil would be a good look for Sonja.  Get a life, guys.)<br /><br />Regards JP]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Jamie Palisades)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2736</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:17:44 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>Business, Commerce and the Economy :: Corporate-ness, succession, and letting go :: Reply by ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745&amp;p=14414#p14414</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Gwyneth's 2600 words here have almost Prokofian heft.  Let's see if I can reply in a few less.<br /><br />Gwyn spins a story of a possible corporate succession fight over an employee-owned “bot” avatar.  She frets that it might take Linden Lab weeks to respond to a dispute over who owns “CDS Ownerbot”, and maybe only a 50% chance of recovering it.<br /><br />But, of course, that's no worse than today's <span style="font-style: italic">One-Ring-To-Rule-Them-All</span> setup.  Let's say that the person behind Sudane Erato, who also controls the estate-owning &quot;Rudeen Edo&quot; avatar, died suddenly.  (God forbid, she's a gem.)  Do you think Linden Labs would just happily hand over control of “Rudeen” to someone else in CDS?  All of the horrors Gwyn described – people shut out of their land, tier might expire, sims might be lost – would happen … except that, instead of a 50% chance, CDS would have <span style="font-weight: bold">zero</span> chance to fix it. <br /><br />Gwyn points out that a RL legal structure might shut out some people from some nations … or anonymous people generally.  If you know or read Gwyn closely, you know that RL anonymity in SL is a dear, acute value that she defends fiercely.   But has anyone considered what that would mean, if we ever had a transition?  <br /><br />Gwyn winds up with a passionate speech about why things are fine now.  Here's the short version: “Sudane and I are powerful well-known people with years of patient networking – and we will be here for years after CDS – so you can trust us, better than some new weird company.  I'm not saying trust me, but trust me.”   <br /><br />(Not the RL person … but the anonymous, non-identified, no-trust-agreement-in-place, can't sue her, can't even FIND her, avatar.   Because the &quot;Immersionist&quot; experiment is more important than … everything.  Even having a way to get the sims back, if we lose them all, I guess.)<br /><br />Personally, I do trust Sudane; that's why I happily left things the way the are, while I was her boss and had some options.  It's true that I <span style="font-style: italic">would</span> rather see one or two known, properly-chosen persons also hold Rudeen's avatar account password, as a security matter. Still, in the short term, things are fairly safe.<br /><br />But that's the short term.  What if some future Sudane, or alternate Rudeen key-keeper, is another Ulrika … or at least, more of a control junkie?  Is CDS a democracy … or a personally-handed-down elite, with a light frosting of pretend government?    I remain unconvinced that a complete dependency on a single person is the right political structure. <br /><br />In a sense, Sudane and Gwyn really are the founders of CDS:  largely it was the two of them who threw out Ulrika from Neualtstadt, changed the name &amp; the locks, and kept the keys.   They believe they did the right thing, and probably they did.   <br /><br />Still, it is notable to me that six years later, they still have the keys.   Almost EVERY small organization and business faces the issue, someday, whether it will outgrow and outsurvive its founders.   Almost always, those <span style="font-style: italic">founders</span> see no reason to worry.  Frequently, this results in a failure to plan … and often, in personal, emotional resistance to succession planning.  <br /><br />Gwyn's reflexive resistance sounds a lot like those <span style="font-style: italic">&quot;apres moi, l'deluge&quot;</span> hereditary-leadership types.  I believe in succession of real power; peaceful transitions; and never letting one person be the irreplaceable leader, visibly or invisibly.  I wonder if my old sparring partner, the senator from Beta Technologies, agrees?     <br /><br />Regards JP]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Jamie Palisades)</author>
            <category>Business, Commerce and the Economy</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=20&amp;t=2745</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:56:30 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Gwyneth ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14413#p14413</link>
            <description><![CDATA[... and in any case, I think it's a good idea to do exactly what you've proposed, e.g. see what has actually be done by both partners in the merger agreement. As said, I have to work from the <a href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&amp;t=2438&amp;p=13292#p13292" class="postlink">Third Draft</a> until someone supplies me with a more recent text:<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA's managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.<br /></div></blockquote><br />It was refused to let the rental system in AA merge with the CDS system. The only compromise was to let the Treasurer collect the tier from the Hippo vendors and then pay the respective EOs to allow them to pay tier. I personally consider this to be a reasonable agreement, so long as it isn't used as an argument for failure to comply with it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />Land management seems at this stage be a bit confusing (as Sonja pointed out), but I'm sure that a solution will be found soon.<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>2. AA's SL groups will be maintained and administratively supported by CDS government, including the public interest lists; members of those lists may also be invited as appropriate to join other CDS groups. The exception is that SL groups used for land administration (in other words, government, not citizen groups) may be altered and consolidated.</div></blockquote><br />Seems to be the case. Or at least I'm not aware of anyone claiming the contrary <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>3. As a project operated in Linden Lab's &quot;Educational sim&quot; class, AA sims may only be transferred to another duly qualified nonprofit organization. AA sims will be maintained in their current nonprofit status, and transferred to a new nonprofit organization as stated in paragraph 5.</div></blockquote><br />This &quot;class&quot; actually doesn't apply to AA sims, e.g. discounted land for non-profits cannot be sold to residents. Granted, when the merger was being discussed, nobody was aware of the issue. In any case, <a href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745" class="postlink">this is being actively discussed</a>.<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>The AA sims will remain at their current rents, tier and pricing, for one year after acceptance, so long as the Linden sim tier prices applicable to them do not change. See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the merged estates.</div></blockquote><br />Seems to be the case.<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Public land and buildings in AA shall become the property of CDS. All AA community builds will be subject to CDS law regarding community assets and theme build protection for AA's recreation of 13th century Arabic Granada, Spain. AA makes no representation that such structures will be available as copies for archive purposes, but will take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to supply archived copies and content where such exist. CDS agrees to take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to support the maintenance and operation of such buildings.</div></blockquote><br />To the best of my knowledge, this also seems to be the case, e.g. nobody has suggested dropping sims, stop paying tier for them, and so on.<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no present nonconforming builds or covenant violations on the AA sims. All building, structure and style terms of the present AA covenant will be retained.</div></blockquote><br />Definitely seems to be the case.<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>4. Integration of electorate and provisions for representation. For interim purposes, when this offer is accepted, CDS shall determine an estimated number of added representatives (the &quot;Interim Added Seats&quot;), based on the number of AA citizens joining as CDS citizens as of the date of acceptance, by a resolution of the CDS RA after recommendations from the CDS chancellor and AA EO.</div></blockquote><br />That's how it works right now.<br /><br />[I'm skipping the rest of this section, because it just defines some procedures which are being followed]<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.</div></blockquote><br /><a href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745" class="postlink">Under discussion</a>. (the next paragraph in the agreement also applies to this as well) <br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>6. CDS will open a funded local sim event programming panel, on the same terms to be used for other CDS communities, for the AA estate. CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no theme, feasibility or appropriateness issues with the cultural and event programming activities presently conducted on the AA sims.</div></blockquote><br />Established in the last term under Jamie's Chancellorship.<br /><br />7. has already been put into effect.<br /><br />8. is about what will happen in July 2010 <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />So, to recap: except for dealing with the financial issues (unified rental payment) and the lists of land parcels to facilitate acquisition by citizens, the only thing that remains is discussing the non-profit RL status of the CDS.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:39:56 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Sacromonte: a challenging project for CDS :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2751&amp;p=14412#p14412</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Rose, would you then please post that list publicly, and tell who is waiting for what bit of land? It seems that with this &quot;guessing game&quot; the CDS will just waste its energies trying to accurately guess who wants to buy land and where, and miserably failing.<br /><br />My apologies to the residents that have actually be waiting so long!]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2751</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:25:40 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Gwyneth ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14411#p14411</link>
            <description><![CDATA[The talk was several hours after the last RA meeting, where many people were still around... and no, I didn't keep a transcript (I didn't ask permission!). That post was mostly the notes I took from what was said. The biggest contributor to the list was Stui.<br /><br />And Rose, I already know your opinion <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Better than that, you have already posted often what issues you have, and made them public. But I was interested to hear what other AA residents say, and what concerns they had; some don't speak on the forums and were given little opportunity (or even no opportunity at all) to speak on the RA. Still, their issues are also important, don't you think? If they're based on factual data, or merely the perception they have of how things are being handled, is pretty irrelevant. A concern is a concern. Factual data will just help us to patiently explain to the concerned citizen why their assumptions are wrong and why they shouldn't worry.<br /><br />Or did you mean that we should <span style="text-decoration: underline">only refer to you</span> regarding <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> issues that concern Al Andalus? If so, I apologise in advance, because that was not made clear to me — but I'm also allowed to disagree! I think that all AA residents have the right to speak for themselves! At least during the &quot;transition phase&quot;, the freedom of expression of AA residents has <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> be revoked!<br /><br />Granted, I'm not perfect and I might have understood some things wrongly. But that's why we're discussing things here: to understand which are valid concerns; which are misinterpretations of concerns that actually don't exist; which ones are just misconceptions based on my wrong assumptions. However, the first <span style="font-style: italic">two</span> cases have to be addressed (the last one doesn't <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ). I wish to list <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> concerns, factual or otherwise; and listen to <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> citizens, not just the ones that someone deems to be worthy of listening to. By patiently going through that list (and hopefully add to it!) I hope that we can at long last figure out what needs to be done to make sure that the AA residents are happy about their situation. If they're being fed false assumptions and fearing things that actually don't exist, our role is to explain the facts, but never to suppress their right to express their fears, rational or otherwise.<br /><br />So, after rewriting the post I had lost, answering to your six points:<br /><br />1. I'm glad it was sorted out that the Mosque and other religious structures in AA are open to the public and free to visit without restrictions, and that anyone can use those buildings! Again, thanks for the clarification. It definitely contradicts what has been told to me.<br /><br />2. Sorry about the confusion of the CDS flag vs. the Spanish flag. This is a case where I might gotten my notes wrong. I quoted &quot;citizens are worried because some buildings show flags that are not appropriate for the cultural and historical background of the building&quot;. After a short jump around AA, I found the three flags — AA, CDS, and the Spanish flag — to be floated in some buildings (not all together!). I wrongly assumed that the target of the complains was any non-AA flag floated in AA.<br /><br />3. and 4. You're quite right. We need a list <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> and a clarification of who posts the available plots, and who is able to request permission to sell them. By default, this role will fall upon the Executive, but it might be best to make double-sure at the next RA meeting. On the last Town Hall, a group was suggesting that Sacromonte would use the similar status as the Monastery in the 'old CDS', and that the New Guild is charged with the planning of this. It's worth discussing it at the RA level, as the RA is supposed to agree with theme expansions/changes via recommendations made by the New Guild, and executed by the Executive.<br /><br />5. Rose, remember, <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> have all the facts, and I'm sure that you have sent them to &quot;CDS officials&quot;. But <span style="font-style: italic">we</span> don't have any of those numbers. We just have the financial reports, and no reason to believe they're not accurate. The &quot;confusion&quot; is just because the information listed there doesn't validate the claim that the AA sims are paying for the old CDS tier; nevertheless, this is a popular opinion, often expressed in public. In fact, only in the month of October did the tier collection from the AA sims surpass the collection in the rest of the CDS by about 10%. Tier collection in the AA sims can be as low as just L$2000 in a month due to pre-payments, so it's hardly possible to understand, before July 2010, if AA pays for itself or not. I'm confident that it does, e.g. that after a year, all the maths add up correctly and we can indeed satisfy ourselves by proving that it worked out fine. The &quot;confusion&quot; is just that we cannot make such claims <span style="font-style: italic">now</span>.<br /><br />6. <blockquote><div><cite>Rose Springvale wrote:</cite>The details of VDI were set out in the merger agreement, which also sets out the respective rights and obligations of both sides of this transaction. [...] The merger agreement provides that CDS has the right to name some directors, but you all treat it like its some monster.</div></blockquote><br /><br />Yes, well, the problem is that on the last draft <a href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&amp;t=2438&amp;p=13292#p13292" class="postlink">of the merger agreement that I found</a>, as well as on the subsequent <a href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&amp;t=2444&amp;p=13299#p13299" class="postlink">RA meeting of May 31, 2009</a>, the non-profit is never mentioned by name or by composition. The relationship between the non profit, your own self, and its role in the agreement was not made public AFAIK, although a link might be dangling somewhere, I just can't find it. I'd love if someone could send a link to me, please. In any case, that doesn't worry me overmuch.<br /><br /><br />Looking back at the conversations I had, if I were paranoid, I would almost think that people were deliberately misleading me to make a fool of myself in public <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> But I was never paranoid, so I prefer to believe that a lot of AA residents are actually stating their fears upon irrational beliefs that have little to do with the facts. Nevertheless, since AA residents will vote in July to stay or to leave the CDS, it's important that at least they base their vote on factual data. However, it's also important to document and bring to the public discussion what their <span style="font-style: italic">irrational</span> fears are, so that we can know what they think, and at the very least point them to the facts.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:14:10 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Transcripts? :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2750&amp;p=14410#p14410</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Well... talking about &quot;website&quot; is sort of limiting things, we have plenty of websites, and publishing transcripts is definitely also something that has to be dealt with...<br /><br />And yes, I hope to make it next Thursday at 1 PM <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2750</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:48:23 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Transcripts? :: Reply by Rose Springvale</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2750&amp;p=14409#p14409</link>
            <description><![CDATA[does Keila's group now have jurisdiction over transcripts as well?   I'm sure she'll be happy to hear that, as she is extremely effective and accountable.  Hope you can make it to the next meeting Gwyn... they've been specifically scheduled at Euro friendly times <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2750</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:41:23 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Rose ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14408#p14408</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Gwyn, you bet i resent a post intentionally meant to mislead.  What' &quot;citizens&quot; have you actually spoken to?  I know you've not had a conversation with me.  Is this all rumor and innuendo?<br /><br />The details of VDI were set out in the merger agreement, which also sets out the respective rights and obligations of both sides of this transaction.  I suggest you all start there when you want to determine what might lead to dissatisfaction.  Has CDS done what it said it would do?  Has Al Andalus?  the question the AA citizenry will be deciding is ...does this work for us.   I suspect i know the answer, but have committed to a process and will see it through.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:39:36 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Sacromonte: a challenging project for CDS :: Reply by Rose Springvale</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2751&amp;p=14407#p14407</link>
            <description><![CDATA[In all fairness CDS needs to support Delia's project and concentrate on its own land sales before it tries to undertake another project in AA.  The people on the waiting list are there for specific, already existing property.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2751</comments>
            <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:35:59 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Sacromonte: a challenging project for CDS :: Author Arria Perreault</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2751&amp;p=14406#p14406</link>
            <description><![CDATA[In the Town Hall of tonight we have mainly discussed about a possible project that would be challenging for CDS. The homestead sim Sacromonte is empty since few weeks. In the same time, it is known that there is a waiting list of people who want to have a parcel in a AA sim (and not somewhere else in CDS). The idea is simple: we can start a project of re-development following the normal process of a CDS development project (NL 8-2 In-Theme Expansion Act: <a href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=214" class="postlink">http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=214</a>). <br />First about the theme: some have looked during the meeting what could be the theme of a sim already named Sacromonte. It seems it is related to flamenco and Gypsie culture. It looks interesting ... A lot of idea were told during the meeting: bedouin tents, oasis trading post,  smugglers cove, etc... Other people can have other ideas. <br />To start the project, some questions have to be answered. The questions are listed in the Bill I have mentionned above:<br /><br /><blockquote class="uncited"><div>(i) the rough number of plots <br />(ii) the range of sizes of plots <br />(iii) price and affordability <br />(iv) single/double prim <br />(v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land <br />(vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory</div></blockquote><br /><br />Sacromonte is a homestead sim. As we need new plots for some people in AA, we can consider it will be a residential sim with 6-8 parcels and few public prims. <br /><br />It seems that a group of citizen has already started to think about it and that the Guild has already discussed the question. The goal of this thread is to put all ideas together, to bring all people interested by this project together and to start something challenging and useful. We wait for your ideas.<br /><br />The RA will also discuss this point in its next meeting. <br /><br />It would also good to know if the Guild is interested in this project.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Arria Perreault)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2751</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:17:24 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Gwyneth ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14405#p14405</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Hrrmpf I lost a long post on these forums due to timeouts *sighs*. Well, more luck for you all <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />Thanks for the clarification, Rose. I see there is a lot of confusion about these points, and your comments are invaluable, as apparently a few AA residents are not aware of them! I've seen the notion of &quot;public building in AA&quot; being referred to as meaning &quot;the public pays for it&quot;, although, in the case of the Mosque, it was being used specifically for one religious group.<br /><br />I'm glad now that it isn't the case, and there was just some incorrect information supplied to me <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Like Sylvia said, one problem less, whew.<br /><br />See, Rose, I know you resent my earlier post. But that's exactly why these things have to be discussed in a way or another. There is too much misinformation! And too little gets published publicly where everybody can see it. So... bear with me... I just publish what citizens tell me and what they <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> their issues are. If those issues don't really exist (except in their confused minds!), this is one place to set them right.<br /><br />Also thanks for the explanation of the status of Virtual Democracy Inc. Believe me, I tried to look it up everywhere... to no avail. I'm glad you're fine in providing information about it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:27:46 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Transcripts? :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2750&amp;p=14404#p14404</link>
            <description><![CDATA[I guess that the RA Archivist is on vacation <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />No, seriously, you're quite right, Rose. We definitely need those transcripts. Specially when new laws are enacted, since the RA transcripts are the only way to know which laws have been passed or not... because the portal hasn't updated information on that for several <span style="font-style: italic">years</span> <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><br /><br />I have high hopes that Keila's group will revert this trend, though <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2750</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:03:35 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>Events in CDS :: Re: Portal/Forum WorkGroup Meeting.. :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=2729&amp;p=14403#p14403</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Hiya <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Will the next meeting be on Thursday 1 PM again?<br /><br />Can we get that meeting's schedule on the official events listing? <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>Events in CDS</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=5&amp;t=2729</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:14:01 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Anzere-CDS Info Hub for Linden Labs :: Reply by Keila Forager</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2735&amp;p=14402#p14402</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Thanks Jamie,  I think you answered my question <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Keila Forager)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2735</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:22:54 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: Transcripts? :: Reply by Keila Forager</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2750&amp;p=14401#p14401</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Was wondering the same thing Rose?  Unless there weren't meetings since February.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Keila Forager)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2750</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:17:33 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Sylvia</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14400#p14400</link>
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><div><cite>Rose Springvale wrote:</cite>... <br />1. There are no religious buildings or religious structures funded by the state in AA. ALL buildings are PUBLIC buildings. While an active group has just begun recently to use the Mosque for such purposes, the mosque has been used for non religious use as well, including a rally and vigil for the democratic atrocities we saw in Iran's last election.  IT IS A SECUALAR representation of a historical building, which TODAY houses a Christian church, and was also the site of the spanish inquisition.  Christians, Jews, Atheists, ANYONE may use the mosque, the chapel, the temple in AA for any legal purpose.  <br /><br />I encourage everyone to read the covenants of Al Andalus.  The experiment there is one of DEMOCRACY, not religion. There is NOTHING in the covenants that deal with religion at all.. the community voted OUT all the reference to Islam long before we even began merger talks with CDS. ....</div></blockquote><br /><br />Thanks for clearing this up Rose.  It seems like everyone is in agreement on this topic at least.  There seems to be some disagreement over whether the Mosque is being supported by public monies at the moment, but we seem to agree that it shouldn't be if it still is.  <br /><br />That's one problem tackled and one solution found by my count! <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sylvia)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:48:31 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Sylvia</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14399#p14399</link>
            <description><![CDATA[I agree with Rose tht the forum can be an invaluable way of communicating when we are not available to meet in world. As long as it stays civil at least. <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sylvia)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:40:22 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Rose ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14398#p14398</link>
            <description><![CDATA[While i'm happy to discuss anything with you in world, i'm on vacation this week and don't plan to be in world much, if at all. Some of these issues need to addressed publicly, so maybe this is a better forum.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:14:34 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Transcripts? :: Author Rose Springvale</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2750&amp;p=14397#p14397</link>
            <description><![CDATA[We are now at least two public meetings behind on transcripts.   I am not sure how citizens are supposed to be effective participants when there is no timely posting.  Also, unless the SC is getting private copies, how are they to do their job of reviewing action??<br /><br />Finally, while no one with access to the forums or portal seems to have time to attend the work group charged with updating, there are updates on the portal, and people still denied access to these forums.  How many attempts should it take to get approval?<br /><br />You all say these forums are necessary for history and debate. How can that be when so many are excluded?]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2750</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:11:26 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14396#p14396</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Rose, let's talk about this in-world.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:09:07 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Rose ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14395#p14395</link>
            <description><![CDATA[And how do i know these things? i spend time in CDS. I claim it as my home.  I talk to people. People talk to me.  I see new people and send them to the proper channels.  Nothing hidden, no ulterior motive, no politics.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:55:43 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Rose ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14394#p14394</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Sonja, if this is the way you wish to communicate with me, fine.  Doesn't seem particularly effective though.<br /><br />1. No, you do not have the ability to set parcels for sale in AA.  There are none for sale.<br /><br />2. You need to communicate with Estate owners of each sim to determine what land is for sale.  Sudane provides the lists re the CDS sims.<br /><br />3. That person also toured and talked with CDS residents about buying land. She was sent to you to talk about it, from others.  After those people, including me, spent time with her, it was noticed that she bought in Arosa.  I understand, though i've not checked,that there is no mention of CDS in your profile.  So perhaps there is confusion here.<br /><br />4.Just how is Arosa associated with CDS?  If there is some rule that lets land NOT subject to CDS laws be &quot;associated&quot; i'd like to sell land in my sim that way as well. It is at least as &quot;associated&quot;.  For the record, i never showed land in my personal sim to CDS potential purchasers during the time i was charged with selling land for CDS.  I suppose if i had, i'd have more purchasers there too.  That's what i mean by conflict of interest.  <br /><br />You are new to the chancellor position, but certainly not new to CDS or to the RA.  You have been in CDS longer than, me, and i've been here for 3 years.  I dont' think any of this is a surprise to you.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:50:17 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Sonja Strom</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14393#p14393</link>
            <description><![CDATA[I admit to being confused about how land sales work now in the CDS, especially with regard to Al Andalus.  To give one example:  do I have an ability to set parcels for sale on the Al Andalus sims so they will appear in yellow on the SL map?  One thing I am working on right now is trying to find out exactly which parcels in the CDS are for sale or should be sold, and the best way to sell them.  I would appreciate any help anyone gives me with this.<br /><br />Yes, I am the Chancellor, but also a brand new one, as well as a no-more-than-human avie volunteer.  I want for everyone to have what they want, and for the CDS to be successful.  Everyone can be assured that I do my best - and will do my best - to connect interested people with land in the CDS.<br /><br />In her post above Rose talked about a new resident in Arosa with whom I have spoken about the CDS.  I kind of wonder how Rose would know about that conversation anyway, but I can explain it.  This person came up to me while I was in Arosa and said she was interested in knowing more about Arosa and the CDS.  I talked with her about both communities, and explained how Arosa is associated with the CDS but is not actually a part of it.  Then we looked right around where we were there in Arosa.  I offered to show her the CDS next, and told her it is also very nice.  She said  no, it was ok, she had decided on one of the houses in Arosa.  Once again I offered to also show her the CDS before she made her decision, but she chose to go with the house in Arosa.  There was nothing about our interaction that was unfriendly toward the CDS in any way.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sonja Strom)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:40:37 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Rose ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14390#p14390</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Forgive me for taking so long to reply, I'm on vacation this week.   But this thread really does illustrate why i hate the forums so much... there are many misstatements in Gwyn's original post that have to be countered. But the thread is so long already, most will skim Gwyn's thread and take it as fact. And one more set of misconceptions will be perpetuated.<br /><br />I'm not going to discuss them at length, just give the facts as i know them.<br />1. There are no religious buildings or religious structures funded by the state in AA. ALL buildings are PUBLIC buildings. While an active group has just begun recently to use the Mosque for such purposes, the mosque has been used for non religious use as well, including a rally and vigil for the democratic atrocities we saw in Iran's last election.  IT IS A SECUALAR representation of a historical building, which TODAY houses a Christian church, and was also the site of the spanish inquisition.  Christians, Jews, Atheists, ANYONE may use the mosque, the chapel, the temple in AA for any legal purpose.  <br /><br />I encourage everyone to read the covenants of Al Andalus.  The experiment there is one of DEMOCRACY, not religion. There is NOTHING in the covenants that deal with religion at all.. the community voted OUT all the reference to Islam long before we even began merger talks with CDS. <br /><br />Personally? i'd never fund a specific religion as a state project in SL, have not in the past, will not in the future.  I have had the experience of being denied admission to a mosque in RL, and this is a deal breaker for me if CDS determines it's okay to impose exclusionary rules to ANYONE to public builings in AA. I have no connection with the so called AIC, other than being friends with some.  No one has every authorized the group to take over the mosque, and no one should.  It is a treasure to all of AA, not just the few people going there for prayer services.  <br /><br />2. Flag.  As far as i know, the only Flag issue in AA was whether or not to raise the flag of SPAIN!  This has some real life issues, relating to the history of the region and the conquering of Al Andalus by the Christian crusaders in 1492.  As AA is an artistic, historical representation of Al Andalus in the 13th century, the point was that it isn't appropriate to raise a spanish flag.  However, citizens from Spain point out that it is THEM who maintain the Alhambra, their tax money that allows tourists like us the ability to view this magnificent structure, and a great source of national pride to THEM.  So they came to me and asked that we place a Spanish flag as well.  I've never heard a complaint or even a concern about the CDS flag.   Most people in AA are concerned with real life issues.<br /><br />3. Land.  There is a lot of CDS land left for sale.  The last sale i conducted showed somethign like 12 parcels available.  Then the new administration took over and other than land in AA which i've transferred, i don't think there has been a sale of land since Jamie and I left office.  (I did hear of one interested person, but she bought in Arosa i understand.)  Who is in charge of land sales now?  Shouldn't there be notices of sales of at least setting of the parcels to yellow map?  This is an issue the RA needs to address with its chancellor.  <br /><br />4. Waiting lists.  I have maybe 4 people who i have promised to notify when AA land comes available.  That's hardly enough to get all worried about.  Delia has an island that has several parcels that have been ready for sale since shortly after the merger, but they are awaiting pricing as far as i know.  Sacromonte is a homestead sim, and was rented to individuals through December.  There is a group which has some ideas for sacromonte, but .. who to the approach? Me?  Sudane? the Guild? Sonja? <br /><br />5. Tier payments. This continues to baffle me.   All the AA records, the hippo information (all web based) and even my mod rights have been granted to CDS officials since prior to the merger.  All the payments for AA tier are invoiced ...at either six month or annual terms.  What is the confusion?  <br /><br />6. Organization. Craedo has not been involved in AA since before the merger.  People have made issue of why we didn't want to post all the Merger information on the forums before it happened, though after having read Pat and Prok's latest misrepresentations, i wish we had.  One of the reasons was that the &quot;sponsorship&quot; of CRAEDO of AA was pulled as soon as it was announced we were TALKING to cds.  Yes, our friend Manen determined that he hadn't cost AA .. or me... enough money yet so he went directly to LL&gt;   Vitural Democracy Inc was formed to meet the represenatations we'd already given, to  accomodate the merger and is governed by a board of directors.  The merger agreement provides that CDS has the right to name some directors, but you all treat it like its some monster.  Delia Lake, Micael Khandr and I, in our real life capacities are directors.  We love Sudane too, but i'm starting to be truly offended at the implications that she is trustworthy, which she is, and  we are not.  Even when the three of us have given our real life information. I created and qualified this organization at considerable personal expense, to accomodate CDS.  There is nothing ulterior about it.<br /><br />If you all want more information that is factual about AA, i suggest you ask me directly.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Rose Springvale)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:24:23 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Arria ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14389#p14389</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Thank you, Gwyn, for this great summary of the issue and the ideas of solutions. It seems important to me to think about that knowing the facts. You give in your contribution a lot of important informations. <br /><br /><blockquote><div><cite>Gwyneth Llewelyn wrote:</cite><span style="font-weight: bold">Citizenship</span></div></blockquote><br /><br />I agree strongly with this principle that citizenship is related to the payment of a fee, by owning or renting a parcel somewhere in CDS. CDS exists because it has sims (11 currently) and these sims exists because LL get money for that. We are a sustainable community as long as we are able to pay this fees. As we have choosed to be a democratic state, we share the costs between all members. It is also important to notice that the size or the amount of plots citizen have doesnt affect their right to vote: everyone get only one vote. Citizenship is related to the fact a citizen pay money, but not to the amount he/she invests every month. In this perspective, it is good that we provide small plots for people who are mainly interested by the political life of CDS or cannot afford money and appropriate plots for projects people expect to develop (like shops or museums, ...). <br />I agree with you about the 100 L$ citizen too.  <br />About the question renting/owning land, I have only one remark. There is a special case: the parcels of a new sims. The sale of these parcels are a good way to finance a new sim. If we don't sell anymore lands, we will have to find new models of financing. And we kill the Private Development Act too this way, as we discourage someone to start a risky and non-financiable project. <br /><br /><blockquote><div><cite>Gwyneth Llewelyn wrote:</cite><span style="font-weight: bold">Flag and Name</span></div></blockquote><br /><br />As I am federalist. I think that each part of CDS can have its own identity as long it respects the Constitution and the laws. I tend even to think about clusters or themes and I can imagine that each part can have an active community life related to its theme. Besides Al Andalus, we could also have a roman community in Locus Amoenus and Colonia Nova. I don't see any obligation to have the CDS flag everywhere. <br /><br /><blockquote><div><cite>Gwyneth Llewelyn wrote:</cite><span style="font-weight: bold">Financials</span></div></blockquote><br /><br />Besides the LL fees, CDS has other things to finance: civil servants, events-promotion-marketing, expansion. We should be prudent in this question and maybe develop a standard model for a budget. For example, we could define the % of incomes we invest in &quot;marketing-event-promotion&quot; and the % that goes to a reserve for a future expansion.  <br />About the sustainability of AA, it would help a lot the debate to have the datas about the AA sims like we have for the old CDS sims: list of parcels, with fees, amount of prims and amount of public prims. This way, we could know the potential income of AA. <br /><br /><blockquote><div><cite>Gwyneth Llewelyn wrote:</cite><span style="font-weight: bold">Expansion</span><br /></div></blockquote><br /><br />I agree it is too early to start a project of expansion. We have to wait the end of the term to see what will happen. We have often said that the expansion could be also qualitative. We can redesign some parts of CDS. Currently the homestead sim of Sacromonte is empty. This is a nice place where at least 6 parcels could be open (that would be a solution for the waiting list). I have heard that a group of citizen have started to think about. I hope to hear more soon. It could be a nice collaborative project, with the involvement of the Guild.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Arria Perreault)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:04:23 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Gwyneth ...</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14388#p14388</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Sylvia, you raise two good points. I guess that suggesting that people &quot;just grab the first available spot and become a citizen&quot; was perhaps a bit pointless. You're quite right on that.<br /><br />I actually feel bad for using one extra plot on Neufreistadt just for prims <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> But that's the only way to be able to put up a shop in the Marketplatz.<br /><br />The other point — about supporting the religious buildings in Al Andalus — is a sensitive matter. No, I don't think that the CDS state ought to support any religious buildings that are not open to anyone to do whatever they please in it. However, supporting the <span style="font-style: italic">events</span> held on a religious building might be acceptable. Then again, I guess this requires a bit more discussion to see what's acceptable and what isn't.<br /><br />The problem is that <span style="font-style: italic">right now</span> the CDS <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> supporting the religious buildings in Al Andalus during this &quot;intermediate phase&quot;. We're just overlooking the issue until July; but we definitely have to find out a <span style="font-style: italic">definitive</span> solution from July onwards: one that is acceptable to all and doesn't violate the spirit of separating religion from state! Maybe my own suggestion was too naive, and the only real solution is getting the Mosque in Al Andalus to be financially supported by a <span style="font-style: italic">private</span> group, e.g. effectively turning a &quot;public&quot; building into a private one, which would pay tier fees like any other...<br /><br />*blows a kiss to Desmond* and yes, we've joined with Al Andalus last summer <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:55:59 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Cindy Ecksol</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14387#p14387</link>
            <description><![CDATA[<blockquote><div><cite>Desmond Shang wrote:</cite>Fascinating stuff!<br /><br /><br />Regarding the flag thing ~ that's so easily solvable.  Why not make a new flag everyone likes?  Add some stars or owls or something... could a flag redesign take long?<br /></div></blockquote><br /><br />Why, Des!  Are you thinking that if we just adopted the Caledon flag it would be quick and easy?<br /><br />Cindy]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Cindy Ecksol)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:28:03 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Desmond Shang</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14386#p14386</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Fascinating stuff!<br /><br />Didn't all these regions merge a long time ago?  You know, geographic continuity, unity governance and all that?  Or am I mistaken?<br /><br />I've been away far too long!<br /><br />Regarding the flag thing ~ that's so easily solvable.  Why not make a new flag everyone likes?  Add some stars or owls or something... could a flag redesign take long?<br /><br />your favourite aristocratic menace,<br /><br />Des]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Desmond Shang)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 02:03:34 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Reply by Sylvia</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14385#p14385</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Wow.  What an Opus! <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />There is far too much to reply to here and sadly I am still not officially a citizen, but I do have a couple of comments I'd like to lay out about this from exactly that perspective.  I'm a person who is actively interested in the CDS and looking to contribute, but not a land-owner and therefore not a citizen and this perspective gives me some insight into some of these issues.  <br /><br />For instance, I would like to be a citizen of the CDS, but there is simply no land in any of the sims that actually matches my needs.  Even if something becomes available, I balk at the idea of buying a &quot;fake&quot; little plot of land that I can't use, when in fact my neighbours could probably use the prims.  I know from history, that often the tiny plots that do come up for sale are bought for this purpose and sit empty as a result.  <br /><br />I think it's a bit sad that the houses of Neufreistadt stand empty, although all are technically &quot;owned land.&quot;  To have to buy land, and then put a little house on it that you can't possibly live in, and leave it empty like all the others just to have a say in the community has always struck me as a bit weird.  In a sense it ends up having the opposite effect from what was originally intended.  We give citizenship to those who &quot;live here&quot; just as in a RL country.  The unspoken premise is that &quot;living here&quot; makes you a member of the community just as in RL it would, and thus a worthy citizen for that reason.  IMO, this commitment is in practice just a <span style="font-style: italic">simulated</span> commitment and doesn't really serve as an accurate measure of how committed that individual is to the community.  Ironically, the rule that members must &quot;live here&quot; causes almost no one to actually &quot;live&quot; here at all. <br /><br />I believe in &quot;living&quot; in Second Life in as realistic a manner as is possible so I'd prefer it if the lands could somehow be set-up so that all the land is actually useful as what it purports to be.  Houses should be liveable, stores should have enough prims to actually be workable, etc.  To me that's the way to build an actual community.  Failing that though, and in the short term, membership in a group and paying fees to that group seems much more preferable to me than land ownership as a basis for citizenship.  <br /><br />For me at least, it would settle my problem of how I am going to join the CDS as a full citizen.  As of right now, there is no land I can &quot;live&quot; on, no land where I can put a store to sell my goods that matches the theme of the goods I would like to sell, and even though I'm an excellent builder, no way I can contribute to the building of the community.  <br /><br />The second thing I'd like to comment on is the issue of religion.  If I get your post's meaning, it's possible that the CDS may have to contribute to the upkeep and existence of religious buildings in the future???  <br /><br />If this is in fact being proposed, I believe this strongly violates the constitution's statements on separation of church and state.  To me personally (as an Atheist), it would also be deeply &quot;wrong&quot; or immoral for religious groups to be supported by government in any fashion.  To join the CDS is to join a <span style="font-weight: bold">secular</span> state. While freedom of religion for the <span style="font-style: italic">individual</span> is supported, the state cannot provide support to any particular religion or even the <span style="font-style: italic">concept</span> of religion.  It's just wrong no matter how you slice it IMO.  <br /><br />Lastly, and on a total side note .... I have to say I strongly disagree that the state essentially derives it's power from &quot;violence,&quot; and the implicit threat of force.  That's probably another one of those things that can be argued forever without much likelihood of one side convincing the other, and I know it's the current fashion in political philosophy but I had to say it.  <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Sylvia)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:53:17 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: The Merger: Tackling problems, finding solutions :: Author Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2747&amp;p=14384#p14384</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Hi all,<br /><br />You all know that I have tried to keep away from the forums as much as possible — mostly because I have little time left! Ironically, this weekend is one of the very rare ones where I have nothing <span style="font-style: italic">pressing from work</span> to do, so I thought it would be a good idea to pester you with some thoughts.<br /><br />Last Sunday, after the regularly scheduled RA meeting, I had the pleasure to discuss with some fellow AA residents what their pressing issues actually <span style="font-style: italic">are</span>. To put it bluntly, we — all of us, not just the non-AA residents — have a commitment to try to settle the tricky issues on the merger and make sure that everybody is happy to go ahead together. Well... &quot;everybody&quot; is too optimistic in a democracy; that is an impossible goal to reach. But let's at least settle for &quot;a large majority&quot;.<br /><br />Some issues were unknown to me, because — <span style="font-style: italic">mea culpa!</span> — I don't attend most of the public meetings on AA where these issues are openly discussed (mostly because they overlap my own schedule...). So I beg your forgiveness if I have omitted some of them. Also, I'm quoting by heart — and I've got a notoriously bad memory!<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Representation</span><br /><br />The first issue has to do with different models of discussing changes to affect the community. CDS is a formal, procedural representative democracy. It has long established the impossibility to poll for <span style="font-style: italic">everybody's opinion</span> when discussing key issues that affect us all. Mostly because not everybody truly participates actively; many are indifferent; others might be willing to discuss, but not have the time. The compromise of representative democracy worked for the CDS: the ones willing to serve are the ones participating directly in the discussions. The rest delegates their wishes through a vote.<br /><br />Al Andalus, instead, is used to the <span style="font-style: italic">adhocracy</span> model: meetings are spontaneously held to deal with particular issues, and anyone concerned with those issues is invited to attend. Their voices are heard, a compromise met, and the Estate Owner for Al Andalus, which has executive powers, implements things as the AA citizens wish. This works well for AA.<br /><br />Naturally there is a clash when such different models are brought together. There is no single entity that has all the power in the CDS — deliberately so! So informal meetings can naturally be held, but they have no persuasion powers to mandate a single individual to deal with the issue and fix it. Instead, the CDS has a balance of powers shared among three branches. Some are more active than others, and every term there is a re-balancing of power, mostly depending on the individuals. As some have remarked elsewhere, the CDS has had very mild Chancellors in the past, who didn't exert much power — putting most decisions in the hands of the RA. During some terms, neither the RA nor the Executive were very &quot;strong&quot;, and it was the SC that pushed things ahead. In the past three terms, under the Chancellorship of Jamie Palisades, we had a rather strong Executive, with the RA's role being mostly delegated to an &quot;open forum&quot; and hearing reports publicly, and the SC pretty much forgotten. This was viewed by most as being the more balanced approach: the Executive, by design, can deal with issues <span style="font-style: italic">quickly</span>; the RA is just a forum for making sure that the Executive doesn't &quot;run out of control&quot; by passing appropriate legislation, and the SC just makes sure that the RA is not too lethargic. However, the flexibility of this model just means that as conditions change — and individuals change their roles in government! — there will always be a balance of powers.<br /><br />How can we reconcile the two models? The Executive proposed a rather simple, straightforward, and quite reasonable approach. The notion of &quot;deciding on your own&quot; is mostly tied to the ability to decide on a budget to be applied locally. So there are now Regional Commissions — and the largest part of the CDS budget is allocated to it — which can be discussed locally at each sim, also under the model of the adhocracy so dear to AA citizens, and applied locally as well. The budget can be spent on events, on building, or on whatever citizens decide. It's just the role of the Executive to make sure that the budget's expenditure is accounted for, and, of course, promoting whatever activities are created with that budget. Personally, I think that this method is the swiftest and most effective way of dealing with local authority and local management of sims.<br /><br />The problem is that this will only address the money issue. There are many other issues which cannot be solved at a local level, and these are at the top of citizen's minds, too.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Citizenship</span><br /><br />It's important to understand why the CDS has historically given the vote to landowners — which seems to be such a &quot;medieval&quot; way of doing things. This was actually only introduced in March 2005. Before that, membership in the CDS, with the right to a vote, was merely based on membership in a group. It was expected that only people interested in participating in the democratic community-building of the CDS would join the group; and many volunteered with all kinds of work, either legislative, or building, or programming, or merely &quot;evangelising&quot; the CDS to others. It would be unfair to value some efforts more than others, so all got a vote.<br /><br />Why the change? After an initial period where the single sim (or, rather, 1/3 of the original sim, Anzere) was subsidised by Linden Lab, the issue of rising funds to cover tier payments became crucial. There were no more &quot;sponsors&quot;. Citizens had to contribute to the tier payments. So it was felt that every L$ contribution would be valuable, and people got a vote no matter how big their contribution actually was; the size of the plot never was an issue, just the willingness to contribute for the tier payments. This meant that citizens that didn't wish to contribute monetarily for the continuation of the CDS left it; the biggest &quot;purge&quot; in the CDS's history happened by then (yes, it's true that at some point in its history, the CDS had 60 citizens but dropped to... merely three, who were the only ones willing to pay for the tier fees). It's thus normal that a certain historical resentment — perhaps irrational and unfounded — was generated against the &quot;freeloaders&quot;, e.g. people that wish &quot;representation without taxation&quot;, to use an analogy <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><br /><br />But there is another fundamental issue here as well. As soon as the Code of Laws started to grow, there was the question of enforcement. We tend to forget how governments enforce their own codes of laws in RL. All governments have <span style="font-style: italic">the monopoly on violence</span>. Through physical enforcement, people are made to obey laws; constitutions and bills of rights just prevent governments (in democratic countries!) to abuse that power. But ultimately that's how RL countries derive their power from: by force.<br /><br />The CDS, however, is a pure social contract — a platonic ideal. It's impossible to &quot;force&quot; anyone to do anything against their wishes: anyone can lave at any time. Even the &quot;punishment&quot; of banning is not really vital. Imagine that someone becomes a citizen of the CDS, gets the vote, but only roams the CDS islands griefing everybody. They get banned. So what? There are plenty of places to continue to go on a griefing rampage. So &quot;banning&quot; is not really a very strong incentive to kick a citizen out.<br /><br />Instead, we long ago figured out that &quot;going for the purse&quot; would hurt much more. Someone who has spent L$, months after months, in tier payments, in buying furniture for their homes, uploading textures, and so forth... has a real value invested in the CDS. Even if it's &quot;just a handful of US dollars&quot;, it is nevertheless money — money that shows commitment to the community. On top of that, the government can indeed enforce laws. Getting your property seized because you have broken a law and found guilty by a court of law is a relatively good deterrent. We are, in fact, a quite law-abiding community (only one court case in 5 years!). But as soon as we join the CDS, we know that if we don't obey the laws, we can get all our property seized without a refund. So that's the only &quot;leverage&quot; the government actually has to make sure citizens minimally comply with the laws.<br /><br />Now we get to the tricky problem of dealing with &quot;landless&quot; citizens. Landless citizens have no such commitment. On one hand, they might be willing to spend a lot of personal time doing things for the community, but unable or unwilling to contribute to the tier payments; and on the other hand, if they're banned (since they own no property, there is nothing that can be seized), they have zero financial loss and little personal loss. I know that some of you that hate this kind of ideology are shocked to see the measure a citizen's worth to be tied to their financial contribution, but let's be realistic here: <span style="font-style: italic">someone</span> has to pay for the sim land fees!<br /><br />To make sure that <span style="font-style: italic">anyone</span> has enough money to at least be able to buy a tiny plot, the CDS has the Civil Service — several <span style="font-style: italic">useful</span> roles where people volunteer their time for the community. In exchange, they get <span style="font-style: italic">paid</span> for it. The Civil Service is ran under the Executive. The idea is that someone too poor to pay a dollar per month, but having lots of spare time, can enroll as a Civil Servant, do some useful work for the CDS, get a salary, and pay their land tier fees that way. We have found out that this hasn't worked well in the past: it's harder to find volunteers than we thought! In essence, what this showed to us is that, on the long run, the so-called landless citizens feel so little commitment to the CDS (even if they publicly claim otherwise!) that they aren't even willing to work for it...<br /><br />And then we have groups. Historically, &quot;group citizenship&quot; didn't exist, since it was then impossible to set a parcel to a group in a private island. LL changed that, and soon a few citizens, who are either SL or RL partners, asked to join their land together. Their idea was to get a larger plot than they're allowed (the Covenants forbid plots over 4096 m2). But this would only be possible with group-owned land. At about the same time, a group of enthusiastic Esperanto speakers joined the CDS and wanted to go a step further: since most of their group didn't care about land at all, they proposed to contribute to a common pool, where the money would go towards the tier payment of their meeting place. The current laws now allow all these possibilities. In order to limit voting fraud, however, two rules were set in place: first, that group members have to be full citizens before joining the group, e.g. at some point in time they need to buy a plot, pay tier for it, and wait at least 28 days. <span style="font-style: italic">Then</span> they can join a group, and sell their original plot, <span style="font-style: italic">but</span> they have to continue to contribute at least L$100/month towards the group's tier payment.<br /><br />This was seen as a reasonable compromise. Personally, I would simply get rid of &quot;group ownership&quot; and &quot;group citizens&quot;, because things are so confusing. For the ones claiming to be &quot;too poor to pay for tier&quot;, I'd simply refer them to the Civil Service, a simple way to help the community and get paid for it, and with that money they can pay regular tier fees for a plot.<br /><br />Currently the problem is that there are a lot of &quot;landless&quot; citizens in Al Andalus, mostly because there is a waiting list to get some plots, not because they are unable to pay tier (although a few are). This issue is a bit confusing to me, since on one hand I get reports that we've got vacant plots that are impossible to sell, but on the other hand, we seem to have waiting lists for getting a plot! I wish someone would help me figure out what is <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> going on.<br /><br />The only thing I can recommend is that if someone is on a &quot;waiting list&quot;, desperately wishing to join the CDS/AA, but can't find a plot of their preference in the sim they like, they should just get a plot elsewhere, become a full citizen, participate on everything, get a vote, get the right to be elected, and, as soon as a plot is vacated on their favourite sim, they can move there.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I think that we should make the move from citizenship based on &quot;buying land&quot; to citizenship based on &quot;paying tier fees&quot;. The difference is subtle, but it is more akin to participating in an associations, where there are membership fees to pay (in our case, every month). As long as you pay your membership fees, you're entitled to everything the association offers you. If you default on payments, you get kicked out and lose your status as member. It's simple, and it's the usual analogy for many groups in RL.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Flag and Name</span><br /><br />It came to a shock to be that a lot of disgruntlement ensured when the public buildings in Al Andalus were &quot;forced&quot; to show the CDS flag, as opposed to a Spanish or the Arabic-styled Al Andalus flag. Now I don't want to demean any notion of &quot;patriotism&quot; or &quot;nationalism&quot; in any way; but I think that this borders on insanity <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> I'm quite sure that flying the CDS flag is not <span style="font-style: italic">absolutely mandatory</span> and it could be forfeited (a typical argument is that it &quot;spoils the cultural background and breaks immersion&quot;). While RL institutions are absolutely intolerant and make a fuss about &quot;national signs&quot; (or supra-national ones; all public buildings in Europe are supposed to show the European Union flag next to the national flag, but I've seen many exceptions...), I really don't think we ought to be so terribly narrow-minded. Sure, the CDS has a flag and an anthem. Sure, those symbols are important to show that we're a little more than a scattered group of individuals with our own opinions, but we make an effort towards a common goal. But making this an issue to some point where people threaten to leave because they feel offended to see the CDS flag in their sims?? Really, I'm sure that there could be a compromise <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> For instance, imagine that the CDS flag is only hoisted on a public building in AA <span style="font-style: italic">if that building is currently being requested for an official government event</span>. Since those are rare anyway — say, the RA/SC/Executive meetings; or the official election balls — I guess that this would suffice to please everybody concerned.<br /><br />For the sake of the argument, I <span style="font-style: italic">do</span> like the CDS flag — for what it stands for, not necessarily because it's a precious work of art or something (and I'm not demeaning the creator's talent in designing it!) — but that doesn't mean I put the flag on my own plots <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br />On the other hand, some Al Andalus citizens have expressed the concern that the name of the &quot;Confederation of the Democratic Simulators&quot; would prevail after the merger, in a sense &quot;confirming&quot; that the merger was in effect an &quot;annexation&quot; of Al Andalus by the CDS, and that the CDS is not really a &quot;Confederation&quot;. I really have to fully agree with this view. <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> In fact, I always hated the name &quot;CDS&quot; too <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> But as Pat mentions in his blog &quot;<a href="http://slpatroklus.blogspot.com/2010/03/arguing-country.html" class="postlink">The Arguing Country</a>&quot;:<br /><blockquote><div><cite>Patroklus Murakami wrote:</cite>[...] the 'Confederation' in the title has no real meaning; it was the least worst of the several awful names we considered when some of the founders left 'Neulatenburg' [<span style="font-style: italic">sic</span>], as it then was, and wanted to take the name with them<br /></div></blockquote><br />I would definitely love to change the name <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> What better pretext than to do that when the merger goes through? <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Religion</span><br /><br />The CDS is quite clear on its strong emphasis of religious tolerance, but also on the separation of religion and State. The only &quot;religious-looking&quot; building in the original sims that has been used for religious/spiritual reasons was, to the best of my knowledge, the Neufreistadter Kirche. It hosted meetings on Esoteric Christianism in the past as well as meditation sessions according to a Hindu tradition and lineage. Its interior has a relative absence of notorious religious symbols, although, of course, from the perspective of the architecture, it's clearly inspired on a Christian church.<br /><br />Because the Kirche is so little used, it was often planned to be razed down and replaced by something else. A group was tentatively formed to be the &quot;Church Preservation Society&quot;, citizens contributing to the tier payment of that building, not unlike what happens with the Guild building (&quot;Neualternburg School&quot;). However, this group never managed to actually get a charter and pool enough tier money to support the Church, so it was left standing, and currently it's deemed to be a &quot;public building&quot; which anyone can use (not only for religious/spiritual uses!! — we used to have concerts and lectures inside, too).<br /><br />Al Andalus has a different tradition. State and religion are not so separated, so there are religious buildings that are sponsored by the state, for the specific purpose of holding religious meetings. In a sense, all Al Andalus citizens contribute for tier payment for having their religious buildings being maintained by the state, and they hold regular meetings (at least once, every day!).<br /><br />There is, I think, a conflict here which we will have to solve. The CDS &quot;typical&quot; approach would be just to tell AA citizens interesting in preserving a &quot;public&quot; building for religious purposes to pool tier together and pay for it. In the spirit of religious tolerance, <span style="font-style: italic">no one in the CDS can be prevented to set up and pay for a religious building and hold religious cerimonies in it</span> — in fact, any attempt of &quot;preventing&quot; that is a most serious abuse of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which serve as the CDS' Bill of Rights, and would be utterly punished, since religious freedom is one of the most fundamental pillars of democracy.<br /><br />But I can imagine that this solution might not be acceptable. The number of people <span style="font-style: italic">directly</span> interested in <span style="font-style: italic">paying</span> for keeping the religious buildings in AA might be not be able to collect enough money to pay for its tier. They are used to having a much larger community all contributing to its tier payment, e.g. the state. On the other hand, I see no way that the CDS state, being fundamentally non-religious (but tolerating <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> religions!) allocates funds to pay for a public building which is used in exclusivity by a single religious group to the exclusion of all others. And finally, of course, I'd hate to see the Mosque to go away because there aren't enough funds to pay for it!!! Even more so when they're truly making an effort to hold religious meetings there <span style="font-style: italic">every day</span>, which is something precious and rare in the CDS, and it should be preserved...<br /><br />I think I can suggest a compromise, though. As mentioned, Regional Commissions are able to independently decide where to apply the money that gets allocated to them. I would thus propose that part of that money simply goes to pay for the Mosque's tier. After all, the Mosque's group <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> providing regular events every day — what better excuse to spend well the money? In that way, it wouldn't be the CDS state <span style="font-style: italic">directly</span> financing a religious activity (which would mean gathering money from <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> citizens to sponsor a specific activity just for <span style="font-style: italic">one</span> religious group), but sponsoring events in Al Andalus, one of which is of a religious nature. What the Al Andalus Alhambra Regional Commission decides on behalf of their residents, with the money that gets allocated to them, should definitely be accepted as being the citizens' will in that region.<br /><br />In any case, I understand that this issue might not be well received by <span style="font-style: italic">everybody</span>, so I truly hope that an arrangement can be made.<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Financials</span><br /><br />This is another tricky subject. As we all know, the land market is in crisis in SL (as well as in RL!). Nevertheless, Al Andalus has long waiting lists (!) for getting a plot. And although every day I hear people complaining that &quot;there are a lot of vacant spots in the rest of the CDS&quot; (I'm just aware of one in Alpine Meadows, which is publicly listed), I don't see that many. I once estimated that we were at 90% occupancy, which, given the rate other communities are reporting, this would simply be <span style="font-style: italic">awesome</span>.<br /><br />The discussion is complex when one analyses the Financial Reports of the CDS. AA residents claim that they're paying for the whole of the CDS tier, because the old CDS sims are not self-sufficient; the numbers show otherwise; then the numbers are contested <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> This creates a rather nasty split among the community (and is tied to the next issue as well), so I think that we need an official clarification, which I cannot provide.<br /><br />All I know is that tier collection is different in the old CDS sims from the AA sims. In the CDS, we use our own land management application, which predates everything fancy that exists out there. It sends an IM (or more) to each citizen to remind them that the payment is due for the month. Citizens go to a predefined place in their sim where the &quot;deed book&quot; is stored, a cute device you pay to, and this gets automatically listed on the financial tables. Citizens have to log in to the CDS every month to pay; exceptions can be arranged with the Treasurer (e.g. pre-payment) but they are, well, exceptional (or so am I led to believe).<br /><br />AA uses a different system. They pay to a &quot;Hippo vendor&quot; which can collect tier in advance. What this means is that some particularly generous citizens, knowing fully well that they will be around in half a year, can pay half a year in advance if they wish. According to what I was told, this is actually not rare at all, but a large majority of AA citizens do precisely that. All the cash thus collected goes to the Treasurer (Sudane Erato), who pays the common tier of all sims, by allocating the necessary amount to the two Estate Owners (Rudeen Edo for the old CDS sims, Rose Springvale for the AA sims). The surplus goes to the CDS &quot;state bank account&quot;, and from which events, promotion, and the Civil Service are paid.<br /><br />Now the difficulty here is to try to prove who is paying for what. Since in the past months, many AA citizens paid their tier for the whole term in advance, there was a huge revenue that way, well over the land usage fee costs for the sims they use. However, what this means is that soon the citizens that have pre-paid for several months will not regularly contribute to the overall tier for many, many months. We can see that from the Financial Statements that, while income from the so-called &quot;Core CDS sims&quot; (the old CDS sims), the revenue from tier payments fluctuates between L$350k and L$450k (as people come and go), the one from AA can be in some months as low as L$2000 (in July 2009) or as high as L$540k (the only month when tier collection in AA surpassed, by L$100k, the tier collection in the old CDS sims — which, ironically, was also the best month for the old CDS sims). Even an &quot;average&quot; value is of little help, since it's impossible to predict when a substantial part of AA residents will pay tier in advance, and for how many months (the average, I'd say, would be around L$100-200k, but, as said, this doesn't say much). For instance, after reading this, many AA residents might all of a sudden pay two million L$ in March, thus paying several months in advance, and this would certainly validate their claims that &quot;they are supporting the old CDS sims&quot;. But it would also mean several months with zero income from them in the subsequent months. Thus, it remains to be seen if all the tier collected in advance is effectively enough to pay for <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> tier until the end of the term. Currently, it's a guessing game — it might be enough, or it might not be (the CDS overall had a slight loss in January and February — not big enough to worry us, specially because February's loss was much less drastic than January's — but we'll see what happens in March). In any case, the CDS <span style="font-style: italic">has</span> enough money to pay for the sims for another three months, and since the income collected from the old CDS sims is very predictable, an estimate can be made that if, say, after April, nobody in the AA needs to pay for any further tier, the overall merged communities can afford all the sims they have or not. (My own guess is that they can, yes).<br /><br />However, for political reasons, this has been used very strongly as an argument for either side to make whatever claims they feel appropriate. The only thing that we can say at this stage is that <span style="font-style: italic">the merged community is slightly profitable until the end of the term</span>. We don't know how the pre-paid tier at Al Andalus will be enough to pay for all sims in AA in the months to come; but it's quite reasonable to expect that <span style="font-style: italic">both communities together</span> are able to self-sustain themselves <span style="font-style: italic">together</span>. For me, that's all that matters, but this is hardly the case to many.<br /><br />The problem here is that there is no way we can really <span style="font-style: italic">know</span> what will happen in the next few months. The truth is, both tier-collecting mechanisms are not unified. Only when that happens — and that will only happen after July — will we be able to know for sure who is paying for what, which sims are self-sustainable, and which are not. This doesn't mean automatically that we will have to drop the sims that are unable to sustain themselves; again, it's more important that <span style="font-style: italic">the community as a whole</span> to be self-sustaining, than worrying if sim X or Y is not collecting enough tier and should be dropped. Nevertheless, I can imagine that the CDS might need to &quot;privatise&quot; some public buildings, if we figure out by July that we are not, after all, self-sustaining. Again, I don't think this is the case, and I understand that it will be tough to wait so many months to have an answer...<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Expansion</span><br /><br />As a follow-up on a recent New Guild meeting, some AA citizens noticed that the New Guild was more worried in planning &quot;Neufreistadt II&quot; than in expanding the AA region. This is closely tied to the previous point. If there is a waiting list on AA, but plots are left vacant in the old CDS sims, why is expansion being planned for Neufreistadt?<br /><br />Now I perfectly understand the concern. Ultimately, of course, expansion will be proposed by the RA and validated (or not) by the Executive, as per <a href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=214" class="postlink">NL 8-2</a>. Since we have a rather good mix of opinions and preferences at the RA, it's highly likely that a decision will be made depending on the citizen's will — usually with some sort of poll, or consultation. For instance, there is a feel that too-expensive plots are hindering the poorer willing-to-be citizens to join, and thus, creating a sim with small plots for them would make more sense (although small plots are historically very hard to sell). On the other hand, perhaps the &quot;long waiting list&quot; for Al Andalus might warrant an immediate expansion of that region, if that list is made public. And finally, it's also likely that, in this difficult financial crisis, the CDS only approves a new sim if there are enough pre-registrations (with cash, not just jotting down a name on a list!) to warrant expansion, like many other communities are doing. In any case, and this is my strict opinion and nobody else's, although I'm an eager expansionist, I think it's far too premature to think about expansion before we know if AA votes to remain as part of the CDS or not, and before we ultimately know if the two communities together are financially self-sustaining or not. So I personally would recommend expansion only after the merger, but... in the mean time, if we do have at the same time vacant lots (do we?) and a &quot;long waiting list&quot; (where is it?), I would most definitely wish to know if we can accommodate those willing citizens first on the vacant lots before thinking of expansion <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Trustfulness, continuity</span><br /><br />The old CDS sims are owned collectively by its citizens, which is confusing to many, since it's the only community in SL that works that way. Since Linden Lab does not allow &quot;collective ownership&quot; on Estates and private islands yet (but just on individual parcels), specific legislation regulates the way tier is collected and paid to Linden Lab on behalf of all CDS citizens (<a href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=181" class="postlink">NL 5-5</a> and <a href="http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182" class="postlink">NL 5-6</a>), which involves the creation of a &quot;special&quot; Estate Owner avatar (currently Rudeen Edo), which is not a citizen but just, well, a &quot;bot&quot; (for lack of a better expression) under control of government to deal with the monetary transactions with LL.<br /><br />Al Andalus operates in a different way. At the very beginning, the not-for-profit CRAEDO owned the original AA sims. This role is now being held by Virtual Democracy Inc., a Texas-based non profit corporation. I couldn't find any data related to this organisation on the Internet, but I'm assuming, for all purposes, that Rose Springvale is the managing partner of it. So this means that Al Andalus, in effect, is not &quot;owned&quot; by its citizens, but by a private organisation, which is interested in holding the sims for AA as long as, well, they remain able to self-sustain themselves.<br /><br />It has been hinted by a few that the model for the old CDS is inherently untrustable, since the individuals in the CDS come and go, while corporations remain. I believe this is also one of those &quot;impossible-to-argue&quot; issues, since either side can present a whole list of arguments (like <a href="http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745" class="postlink">we've been doing here</a>) and never convince the other side. For me personally, it's exactly in the joining of both models in a single organisation that we get the benefit of both. People mistrusting anonymous organisations will probably settle in the old CDS sims, which will remain to be owned by the <span style="font-style: italic">current</span> citizens living there; while people mistrusting other people (but trusting corporations!) have the option to settle in the Al Andalus regions. Giving citizens the choice where to stay is, in my opinion, a far better model; &quot;forcing&quot; citizens to trust one model over the other will just lead to frustration and citizens just giving up because &quot;their&quot; choice was removed. That is, at least, the way I see it.<br /><br />Whew. Lots to discuss. But I hope that at least in some of those issues I managed to give at least a glimpse of possible options. And I would definitely love to hear about more standing issues, as we try to list them all, go through all of them, and manage a solution for each one that pleases the whole community.<br /><br />And I'm really looking forward to a day where we don't speak any longer about &quot;Al Andalus citizens&quot; vs. &quot;CDS citizens&quot; any longer. We had these splits from as early as Colonia Nova, when Colonia Nova residents blamed Neufreistadt residents that they had all the privileges of a central and historical position. It took us years to think of ourselves as merely &quot;citizens residing in a sim&quot;. I fervently wish that we start thinking of <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> citizens after the merger as being citizens of a <span style="font-style: italic">single</span> community. If that even means a new name (&quot;United Democratic Simulators&quot;? &quot;Virtual Democratic Union&quot;? <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ), a new flag, and even a new anthem (!), I'd be all for it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2747</comments>
            <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:53:43 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: CDS chronicles continued :: Reply by Danton Sideways</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2734&amp;p=14383#p14383</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Fast Forward part 2 is now online: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://dantonsideways.blogspot.com/2010/03/fast-forward-part-2.html">http://dantonsideways.blogspot.com/2010 ... art-2.html</a><!-- m --><br /><br />The Fast Forward has now reached one year ago - I still hope to get up to date eventually. Also, I feel the same as Rose about wanting to know more about the history of CDS before my arrival, but that is another subject.<br /><br />Rose - We need to talk inworld. I did have one conversation with Keila about the portal, and must touch base with her again. I toyed with the idea of contributing to the portal at one point, more than a year ago, but never went beyond a brief contact with Brian Livingston.<br /><br />As to the Scientific Council, I'll repeat what I said in an RA meeting a few weeks ago. The current SC should get credit for having helped steer CDS-AA through the crisis that came at the end of the last RA, when it became necessary to postpone the elections by about a week. I will admit that the SC could be more present. Delia Lake seems to be the only SC member that is very active in SL these days. As for myself, I can always be reached by email at <!-- e --><a href="mailto:dantonsideways@yahoo.com">dantonsideways@yahoo.com</a><!-- e --> so anybody should feel free to contact me that way.]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Danton Sideways)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2734</comments>
            <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:50:09 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: What's happening with the forum???? :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2737&amp;p=14382#p14382</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Sorry <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><br /><br />But I'm glad it's back again for you!]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2737</comments>
            <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:14:30 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>General Discussion :: Re: The Arguing Country :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=2736&amp;p=14381#p14381</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Excellent article indeed, Pat <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> And you've even attracted Prokofy, woohoo!]]></description>
            <author>no_email@example.com (Gwyneth Llewelyn)</author>
            <category>General Discussion</category>
            <comments>http://forums.slcds.info/posting.php?mode=reply&amp;f=1&amp;t=2736</comments>
            <pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:12:57 GMT</pubDate>
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            <title>Business, Commerce and the Economy :: Re: Corporate-ness :: Reply by Gwyneth Llewelyn</title>
            <link>http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=2745&amp;p=14380#p14380</link>
            <description><![CDATA[Why we do discuss this topic every year or so? *sigh*<br /><br />I can only bring the old arguments from the past: if we have a corporate entity running the sims, who owns the corporate entity? Ultimately, those would be the real &quot;rulers&quot; of the CDS, no matter what the elected government will say or not.<br /><br />In the past, I made a suggestion, based on a lot of input (I definitely cannot claim the idea as being fully my own). The corporate entity would be outsourced the work of actual land ownership, through an agreement between the CDS government (signed by the Executive) and that entity. You could think of it as a NGO, also chartered in the CDS, that actually manages land on behalf of the CDS's government. Similar arrangements actually exist in RL. This would work — so long as the corporate entity is willing to commit to the agreement. If they break it and run away with the land, then there is little the CDS can do about it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> At some point, this was felt to be a worthy risk to take, for the exchange of lower tiers from a not-for-profit status; but since LL abandoned the discounts for not-for-profits who manage land on behalf of other residents, this argument is sadly lost...<br /><br />Apparently the major issue that was raised by Rose is the issue about &quot;continuity of ownership&quot;. Now there are two separate cases to be dealt with. As most of you know, Sudane is not the avatar that owns the CDS islands; Rudeen Edo is. Rudeen is actually the Estate Owner — a bot, if you wish, which only serves the purpose of holding land on behalf of the CDS. We have been patiently waiting for LL to introduce true &quot;group ownership&quot; of private islands, exactly for the purpose the CDS has in mind. (There has been a proposal made on an old feature list being ran by LL, but I couldn't find it on JIRA, so <a href="http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5532" class="postlink">I created a new one</a>).<br /><br />Please note that &quot;continuity of ownership&quot; through a corporate entity is not guaranteed at all. Linden Lab doesn't technically recognise &quot;corporate-owned avatars&quot;. Imagine that we create this land-holding corporation and assign all CDS land to &quot;CDS Owner&quot;, a newly created avatar just for that purpose, and the avatar is controlled by the CEO of the corporation. At some point, the CEO is disgruntled with either the corporation or the CDS, and either a) disappears; b) changes the password and refuses to release it, while at the same time deleting all credit card/wire transfer data from that avatar; or c) just transfers the islands to another avatar without consulting anyone. LL will honour all these cases, since for all purposes, &quot;CDS Owner&quot; is the legitimate owner of the Estate and can do pretty much what it wants with it.<br /><br />Now, our lawyer friends would say: &quot;ah, but in that case, we can nominate a new CEO, sue the disgruntled ex-CEO, and request, formally, that LL passes the ownership back to us!&quot; (or at least reset the password). Well yes in theory. In practice, before the lawsuit is filed, it's all in LL's hands: they might &quot;trust&quot; a letter from the new CEO to reset the password, or they might not. Imagine that case c) actually happens, and a new owner suddenly grabs the whole Estate, and it's only too late that the corporation finds out about it. The new owner might have, in good will, paid for the whole Estate, and of course LL cannot revert that position. They might be willing to sell it back or not. If they aren't, there is no alternative but to file a lawsuit against the disgruntled ex-CEO.<br /><br />Even with the super-fast US legal system (compared to the one where I live!), I'd be hard pressed to believe this would take less than 15 days to settle. After those 15 days have elapsed, Linden Lab has no more backups of the islands, so all content is effectively lost. Until the lawsuit goes through, and the ex-CEO is forced to pay back what indeed might be considered a theft, CDS citizens would be shut out of their land. In cases a) and b), everything would be totally and irretrievably lost. In case c), the new owner might make absolutely absurd demands on selling the content back (or it might have deleted it already!), and even after winning the lawsuit, while we might have the happy, cozy feeling of having done the right thing, we would just have some cash, but no content and no islands.<br /><br />So &quot;going corporate&quot; is not a 100% fail-proof scheme to guarantee continuity. It totally depends on personalities as well. The only advantage is that through a lawsuit we might get our money back, which is better than nothing.<br /><br />Now let's consider Rose's argument: the &quot;existence&quot; of the CDS ultimately depends on Sudane's health and patience. That is correct just to a degree. As said, Rudeen Edo is the Estate Owner, not Sudane; and there are safeguards put into place to make sure that if something serious happens to Sudane's health (her patience is legendary <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ), Rudeen Edo will continue to ensure payment of the Estate islands' tier. Obviously Sudane's not immortal <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> but the same safeguards will guarantee that Rudeen Edo's avatar will outlast Sudane.<br /><br />There is obviously the issue of Sudane's <span style="font-style: italic">patience</span> <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Well... let's be honest here... Sudane (and myself!) are both stubborn and patient at the same time. Stubborn enough not to leave the CDS in spite of anything; patient enough to deal with far worse splits on the community than the last serious attempt, made in 2005 <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> (and we're still around to tell the tale!). It's far more likely that Second Life shuts down, or is deemed illegal for some stupid reason, or that Linden Lab forbids land sales, or something incredibly unlikely, than for Sudane to go away. As a matter of fact, I'm prepared to bet that even if we go the corporate route some day, Sudane will outlast it <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> — and I can definitely guarantee the same myself. Neither of us are motivated by greed or glory; neither are subject to whims, fancies, or the sudden lapse of dishonesty which is too tempting for some evil minds let loose in SL; we both live by our reputation, and that is something quite hard to build up in a virtual world — it takes years of patient networking — and is immensely more valuable than a handful of sims, both from an ethical standpoint (which is what matters here!) and a monetary one.<br /><br />It's not a question of saying &quot;trust us because we say so&quot;. It's more a question of &quot;watch our actions and make your own judgement&quot;. Between trusting an individual that I talk to every day, and have done so for almost 6 years now, or a sudden organisation that has popped up with the commendable good intention of managing the CDS sims, whom would I trust? I wouldn't hesitate for a microsecond <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> But not because of mere words — just acts made in the past 5+ years.<br /><br />Anyway, the problems of the corporate entity are many, and just because we didn't talk about them in a while, that doesn't mean they have simply gone away <img src="http://forums.slcds.info/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> The first, of course, is where to l