Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Here you might discuss basically everything.

Moderator: SC Moderators

Post Reply
Laura Azalee
Lurker
Lurker
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Laura Azalee » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:01 am

To be honest, I am very much against them. I have been in SL for over 10 years and had a place of my own since I was a very young avatar but I never, never had a security orb - I just think they are horrible. I have always had a place in the sky for privacy, so i think that the present rule of no orb below 1000 is just fine.

If an unpleasant intruder comes in, which by the way happened to me only once in ten years, we don't have to put up with them, we can still eject and ban them.

And do we really want to have to check property lines every time we take a walk around to avoid incurring in those horrible devices?

Besides, I think that security orbs on ground level would just be somewhat against the sense of community and openness that is so special to CDS. It would be very sad if we too started to close up areas, put up walls, and so on. Sorry guys i don't think that would be the spirit of CDS.
And it makes me feel sad that we're even considering this.

User avatar
Sylvia Tamalyn
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:07 am
Location: NFS, SLT +2
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Sylvia Tamalyn » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:00 am

Some of us may not want to use orbs for ourselves, but that should not override someone else's wish to have one, as long as having one doesn't hinder use of public areas. What we are discussing here, allowing the use of orbs inside peoples' homes, should not affect anyone else. If I'm strolling down the road, a properly set orb will not bother me. If I barge into someone's living room and they have an orb, then I will get what I deserve for intruding on their privacy.

Community is all well and good, but we have to give equal consideration to the desire for some privacy. If we establish rules such as Sudane has suggested, this should not be a burden on anyone.
Live every day like it's Taco Tuesday!

User avatar
Lilith Ivory
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Lilith Ivory » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:13 am

I totally agree with Sylvia.

I personally have no need for a security orb either but wanted to have this covenant rule reviewed as during the last few ears I have been talking to several citizens - and potential new citizens - who wanted to have their privacy protected by an orb.

I would be in favor to allow orbs that protect only the inside of buildings but in this case I would ask for a class for EMs about how to handle them correctly and a list of Orbs who can be set up precisely like this. (the casper orb is terribly expensive and some citizens might buy a wrong one by accident)
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."
Terry Pratchett

User avatar
Kyoko
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:23 pm

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Kyoko » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:57 pm

While I am not personally in favor of security orbs, it seems we need to look at the issue.

If we do decide in favor I would wish for the ones that only protect the building volume, not the land around.

My main concern is that 3 of our sims have large areas of common land that are free to wander. The ability to freely explore our sims is an important part of our appeal. I am also concerned for Friedsee airfield and Lyubov's balloon ride. If the volume orbs can be set to the building's height, that's ok, but if they cannot be set vertically as well as horizontally I am adamantly opposed to allowing security orbs at ground level in CDS. You can't invite people to rez their planes or take balloon rides if they are going to be tossed out because of a security orb.

I am also very concerned for the load on EMs. They are volunteers and not all of us have the skills, time or will to learn the ins and outs of security orbs. I will await a proposal that does not burden the EMs.

Obviously I am pretty much opposed, but as chancellor I am represented by the RA and the LUC as well under as the jurisdiction of the SC. So in the end it is up to the appropriate body(ies) to make that decision.

Kyoko

BTW all my parcels are fully open and citizens are more than welcome to explore. But that's my personal choice.
C.D.S. Chancellor for the 30th Term

User avatar
Han Held
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:52 pm
Location: Funadama (SL),Alaska (RL)
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Han Held » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:58 pm

I agree with Kyoko -I think we have to make it a priority to keep our lands as open as possible.

Any orbs that are set out should have generous time limits -no less than 30 seconds. Auto-kicking and 5 second orbs are one of the worst scourges of mainland and I'd hate to see those annoyances here.

And I think that any orbs set out should be required to get approval so that the chancellor (or someone) can make sure that the Estate Managers are whitelisted and that the timeout is appropriate.

In SL "privacy" has a couple of meanings. There's privacy as in "no one can enter" which is what orbs address; then there's "no one outside can see in" which is something that is already configurable in "about land".

The about land can be thwarted by someone sitting on the same parcel -but that's the point where the citizen would file a complaint to the EM team.
"We don’t do this "thing" ’cause it’s permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we’re compelled." -Rorsach, "The Watchmen"

User avatar
Emilia Avindar
Lurker
Lurker
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Emilia Avindar » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:27 am

This is my perspective, too, Laura. We can simply toggle off (disallow) the option to "Allow others to see and talk to avatars on this parcel" and I believe it may even suppress your green dot so it no longer appears on the map to others. If an orb is allowed, it should be set to only warn, and not eject or send home. Our community is built on trust and mutual respect, and is very unique in this.

I wonder if the orbs would create lag, due to continuous scanning. Visitor trackers are an option which do not have negative impact; simply check to see if you have frequent guests, and if you don't wish to confront unwelcome visitors yourself, then let an EM know you are concerned, so it can be addressed in a congenial way.

I will accept whatever guidance comes down on this, but i agree with you, Laura. Orbs are overkill, and this community is civilized and engaged. Anyone peeking inside a personal domicile may only be curious about decor, and how we live here.

Another idea is Sentinel duty, as a volunteer role that might encourage more involvement in the sim. The Sentinel could serve as a greeter also, to welcome the occasional outsider, and to provide the simple instruction to please respect personal privacy while enjoying our beautiful, historic sims.

We could then review the Visitor List and actually work it to encourage follow up, and to extend personal invitations to events.


Laura Azalee wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:01 am
To be honest, I am very much against them. I have been in SL for over 10 years and had a place of my own since I was a very young avatar but I never, never had a security orb - I just think they are horrible. I have always had a place in the sky for privacy, so i think that the present rule of no orb below 1000 is just fine.

If an unpleasant intruder comes in, which by the way happened to me only once in ten years, we don't have to put up with them, we can still eject and ban them.

And do we really want to have to check property lines every time we take a walk around to avoid incurring in those horrible devices?

Besides, I think that security orbs on ground level would just be somewhat against the sense of community and openness that is so special to CDS. It would be very sad if we too started to close up areas, put up walls, and so on. Sorry guys i don't think that would be the spirit of CDS.
And it makes me feel sad that we're even considering this.
Very happy to serve as PIO for the 30th Term :D

User avatar
Sylvia Tamalyn
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:07 am
Location: NFS, SLT +2
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Sylvia Tamalyn » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:49 am

I oppose anything that resembles "SL police", and would much rather see an orb protecting the interior of a home (where strangers have no business being anyway) over "sentinels" patrolling the streets. There are many in SL who share my view about pretend police. It starts out as innocent RP, but inevitably causes issues.

As Sudane said, they allow orbs at New England, and I have never found orbs to hinder my explorations there. In fact, I was not even aware they allowed orbs! So it's obviously possible to do this in a manner that allows easy exploration while protecting homeowner privacy. Maybe a field trip to New England is in order for those who are not so familiar with how orbs can be properly set up, so they can see for themselves.

If someone has an orb, it does not prevent anyone from peeking inside. It prevents them from barging on in. ;) I hope we can be flexible and consider the wishes of all citizens and potential citizens, regardless of whether we personally dislike orbs. There is obviously some demand to have them, since Lilith stated she has been asked about it by more than one person.
Live every day like it's Taco Tuesday!

User avatar
Emilia Avindar
Lurker
Lurker
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Emilia Avindar » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:51 am

Sylvia, I'm sorry if the word "Sentinel" sounded like police, because i think it sounds like "guard" as in to guard our privacy while making friendly contact with outsiders.

Regardless, we do have a welcoming tradition. Hopefully, we all jump out of our bubbles to say hello to new guests, or old ones. To some it comes very naturally, and I might be shy, or reluctant to engage and spend time, but I remember how it feels to be new. Pip may have been the first person to welcome me, and to follow up with invitations to poetry readings, many years ago. Otherwise, this beautiful place could almost be intimidating, until you get to know us.

I don't see how Citizens need orbs when they would want to model open architecture concepts, self governance, and democracy. I'm here for the dream. Let the Citizens have their voice, then.

Would it be possible to poll all Citizens, or have a Vote here, yay or nay, on a specific proposal?
Very happy to serve as PIO for the 30th Term :D

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am
Location: west-coast Canada

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Rosie Gray » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:36 am

Since there seems to be such a diversity of opinion on orbs in the CDS, I think that Emilia's suggestion of poling the citizenry is a good idea. We have this topic coming up during tomorrow's LUC Meeting (Sunday Feb. 17., 10 AM SLT), so I'll bring that to the table.
"The secret to change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." ~ Socrates

User avatar
Lyubov
Lurker
Lurker
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Lyubov » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:36 pm

I strongly agree with the sentiments expressed by Laura, as well as the follow-ups by Kyoko, Han, and Emilia. At this time, I remain firmly opposed to the very concept of security orbs on the ground level. All of my parcels are completely open and I welcome visitors. Those who desire orbs may do so over 1000m.

In my experience, orbs address a problem which I feel we do not have in CDS. Instead, I use a completely free solution, called Hello Visitor. With "Hello Visitor", I IM or Chat a nearby guest with a friendly greeting. This usually results in a friendly conversation; on rare occasions, the embarrassed guest TPs away on his own.

I may entertain obs at the ground level, under specific conditions, including but not limited to:

* A very tight affected volume of area
> Interior spaces only
> What is the technical granularity of this volume?
- Parcel dimensions are limited to a crude, 4x4 grid
- Many spaces, particularly in NFS, have an irregular shape
- The ground floor of spaces may be commercial, and must not be restricted in any way
- Airspace should not be restricted

* Warnings set to "nudge" not "shove"
> A simple notification, not an eject or TP home is sufficient for reasonable people
> There are other, less invasive Land tools to specifically exclude the unwanted

* A single, standard, CDS-approved orb make/model
> Ensures compliance with CDS-orb technical capabilities
> Reduces training required for EMs who will be called upon to help configure orbs and ensure policy compliance

* The orb is provided by CDS, configured by EM
> A one-time charge for a CDS-owned copy version, paid by "CDS"
- Ensures parcel owners use the approved model
- Eliminates wasteful spending by parcel owners, buying the same device
> A nominal per parcel "setup fee", perhaps 100L, may be applied to offset the CDS cost for the device
> The orb should be owned by a permanent land management account, ie. Rudeen
- Certifies that the orb will always be accessible to CDS management, regardless of EM availability or membership
- Allows the EM to assist and validate the proper configuration of the orb
^ Adds to the EM workload
^ Only way to be certain that the orb is configured correctly, per policy
^ Included as part of the EM's on-boarding process: welcoming the owner, certifying building compliance, and configuring orb

Changes to the orb policy will require a change to the general covenant and may also affect region-specific covenants as well.

User avatar
Sylvia Tamalyn
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:07 am
Location: NFS, SLT +2
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Sylvia Tamalyn » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:23 pm

I don't think this is an option that is going to be taken advantage of by most citizens, so it really should not be a huge burden on anyone.

However, it is reasonable to seriously consider offering it as an option, since potential citizens have been asking about it. Being a little flexible might help reduce some of that yellow on the map. ;)
Live every day like it's Taco Tuesday!

Laura Azalee
Lurker
Lurker
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Laura Azalee » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:19 am

Just a couple more thoughts.
I strongly doubt that an orb can be set to cover only the enclosed space of a building - but if that were possible, it would NOT make the "privacy control freaks" happy (Privacy in SL? Serously? How funny is that!!) . After all, those hordes of peeping Toms they fear could still fly over their homes or just enter a corner of their parcel and watch them!!!! So for the orb to be effective, it has to cover the WHOLE of the parcel - so yes, I think you can say goodbye to flying ballons and planes... walking on public land will still be possible... perhaps. But please keep to the road.
Sylvia, I don't really think this would help much to reduce the yellow dots on the map... There is much cheaper land, there are pretty places where to get a home, where you can basically build anything and put all the orbs and ban lines your heart desires...what attracts people to CDS is its UNIQUE community.
And of course,orbs are likely to mean a HUGE amount of work for the EMs to set and control them - once it gets started, I am not that sure there will only be a few that require an orb. Just travel around residential areas anywhere, and you'll see that almost every home has an orb or ban lines.
I find this so sad.
I just wish CDS was different.

User avatar
Lilith Ivory
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Lilith Ivory » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:14 am

@Laura
no offense meant , but …
… you say you strongly doubt orbs can be set to cover only the enclosed space of a building.
While Sudane says she has casper orbs in New England and knows they are capable to protect only one single room in one floor of a building if needed. I think that´s very nifty and am eager to learn how to set an orb up like this.

… you and others are concerned about air traffic, but orbs are already (were always) allowed in skyboxes above 1000 meters and as far as I know there has never been a problem with planes and balloons.

I think if we allow orbs, perhaps owned by Archie and setting them up correctly through a trained EM, nobody will even notice they are around. But if we provide casper orbs to citizens who request one it makes CDS look even more welcoming than before.

There is a reason why prefab homes still come with lockable doors and windows that can be changed to non transparent. It's not about safety but about the feeling of being safe within your own walls :)
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."
Terry Pratchett

User avatar
Kyoko
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:23 pm

Re: Security Orbs on Ground Level?

Post by Kyoko » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:49 am

Thanks for a lively discussion. That we CAN have something to say means CDS is different.

Stay tuned for a resolution that will answer most concerns.
C.D.S. Chancellor for the 30th Term

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”