RA meeting 7 June 2009 TRANSCRIPT

[Cindy Ecksol]

Gwyneth Llewelyn joins Claude across the room... he feels so lonely there
Soro Dagostino: would you like to comment.
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i hope this will be a brief return, but ty for asking
Patroklus Murakami: that's all
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Next meeting will be the regularly scheduled 0900 meeting on June 13, 2009.
Pip Torok thinks Pat has something to say ...
Soro Dagostino: Oh, I thought he had.
Patroklus Murakami: (no, i've finished )
Soro Dagostino: Sorry.
Moon Adamant: hello everyone
Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon.
Sonja Strom: hello Moon
Soro Dagostino: Please consent to recordation. Touch the recorder on the table.
Sonja Strom: I will not be able to attend the meeting on the 13th, and request a 7-day vote for it.
Moon Adamant: i assent to recording
Soro Dagostino: Noted.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Turning to to the items on the Agenda. . .
Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan, Monastery.
Soro Dagostino: It was postponed last time at the request of the Proponent.the
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Arria Perreault: Hello Moon
Arria Perreault:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moon
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn -- you have a motion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just ask for a short clarification?
Arria Perreault: Did you alreay ask for non RA members speakers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On "b. Discussion and Vote." is to vote on Arria's proposal, right?
Arria Perreault: I had an eye on Roland-GArros
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Arria, I've also missed that)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, I forgot the additional speakers.
Moon Adamant: I may wish to speak
Soro Dagostino: Please indicate your wish to speak.
Soro Dagostino: Moon.
Soro Dagostino: Arria?
Soro Dagostino: Pip?
Pip Torok: mo
Pip Torok: no
Sonja Strom: Pip is an RA Member, lol
Pip Torok is content to vote
Soro Dagostino: Just asking.
Arria Perreault: I wish to speak, if necessary
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Patroklus Murakami: apologies if i'm unfamiliar with the new procedures. do u need someone to move that the Monastery proposals be approved?
Patroklus Murakami: *proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... on II b
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus my question
Soro Dagostino: The matter was postponed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... not for today then?
Soro Dagostino: And it may not have been recorded.
Moon Adamant: i am sorry?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we approve the Monastery proposal i.e. Arria's proposal, homestead sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then I second Pat
Soro Dagostino: The matter is open for discussion . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm fine that we do "II . 1. a. Report regarding accession of Monastery" first, of course.
Soro Dagostino: I note the chancellor did post a note about it this morning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Patroklus Murakami: i thought the report took place last week? is there anything further to be clarified?
Patroklus Murakami: i would hope that we are ready to approve the proposal now
Pip Torok agrees with Pat
Soro Dagostino: Any further discussion?
Soro Dagostino: Who would like to restate the motion before the vote?
Patroklus Murakami: happy to vote now
Gwyneth Llewelyn 's more than happy to vote as well
Patroklus Murakami: yes soro, that we approve the Monastery proposal from Arria, for purchase of a homestead class sim. as described in the following post from jamie http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2452
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I second again, just to be clear)
Soro Dagostino: That is accepted as the Motion before us.
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye !
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: 7 day rights have been noted.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you're allowed to vote now too, Soro
Patroklus Murakami: yay!
Soro Dagostino: But it is by a majority of the body.
Soro Dagostino: Only if a tie.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so I would kindly request that this august body formally notifies the Chancellor of the approval, so that he might start to get the whole procedures rolling
Pip Torok wondered why Arria did not vote
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried in the form presented in the memo of the Chancellor.
Moon Adamant: Arria is not a rep, Pip
Soro Dagostino: Arria is not of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not this term, Pip
Pip Torok: ah sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Arria Perreault:
Soro Dagostino: Next matter please.
Soro Dagostino: The proposed Community Merger Bill -- I believe Pat is the proponent.
Soro Dagostino: would you make your presentation?
Patroklus Murakami: certainly
Patroklus Murakami: i'm sure we are all v excited about the merger with Al Andalus
Patroklus Murakami: it's fantastic news that AA agreed to the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: we need to make some changes to our constitution tho for this to work
Patroklus Murakami: ours talks about the RA being 'democratically elected factions' for example
Patroklus Murakami: and it doesn't really cater for merger scenarios
Patroklus Murakami: i put together a proposed constitutional amendment to help the AA merger take place and....
Patroklus Murakami: provide the flexibility for future mergers
Patroklus Murakami: it's probably too long
Patroklus Murakami: but a good starting point for discussion
Patroklus Murakami: does everyone have a copy so they can ask questions/debate it?
Pip Torok: no ...
Sonja Strom: me either
Gwyneth Llewelyn would kindly request for a copy or a link to the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
Sonja Strom: I have seen your post about that in the Forum
Soro Dagostino: There was comment by the Chancellor of this morning.
Sonja Strom: But I don't know if you have changed it.
Sonja Strom: Received, thanks.
Pip Torok: received
Patroklus Murakami: i have not changed my proposal but i am grateful to jamie for offering thoughts and posting an alternative version
Soro Dagostino: You do not wish to have those suggested changes?
Pip Torok: I request time to digest the contents ...
Soro Dagostino: Granted.
Soro Dagostino: We stand adjourned for five minutes
Patroklus Murakami: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine
Moon Adamant: sorry for the interruption... i am leaving now... be aware that there will be a Guild meeting at 11 AM
Moon Adamant: good wrok everyone!
Soro Dagostino: We do hope to be done.
Moon Adamant: work*
Moon Adamant waves
Soro Dagostino: Pip have you had enough time?
Soro Dagostino: Are we ready to reconvene?
Sonja Strom: Almost...
Sonja Strom: sorry, I am a slow reader.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you. Holding.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm ok, but I'm fine in waiting too
Sonja Strom: Ok, I can move forward -
Sonja Strom: thank you for the time.
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's fine, Sonja
Soro Dagostino: Getting the posts from this morning.
Pip Torok: I propose one amendmant in section 2 first sentence ...
Patroklus Murakami: yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens and will also suggest some
Soro Dagostino: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453
Pip Torok: "at least a year" to "a year to 18 months" to clarify
Soro Dagostino: Pip -- that is in order
Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
Sonja Strom: second
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Patroklus Murakami: accepted as a friendly amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn's fine with that too
Soro Dagostino: Noted.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn -- you have the floor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A second suggestion, if I may, mr LRA...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the current merger (with Al Andaluz) stipulates a "special term" of 6 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Section 3 here suggests a three month term,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'd be effectively invalidating the previously passed bill
Soro Dagostino: Your proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might suggest, thus, some words like: "These RA members will serve a special term, from 3 to 6 months, after which a special CDS election will be held to fill the seats for the remainder of the term."
Patroklus Murakami: happy to withdraw that section which refers to a three month special election - it was in square brackets to be optional
Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the house?
Sonja Strom: I would like to propose alternate wording to that.
Sonja Strom: "These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election."
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I prefer that
Soro Dagostino: No Motion is on the floor . .. except the main motion.
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn removes her motion and seconds Sonja's
Patroklus Murakami: i'm happy to take sonja's amendment as friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes it easier ? "special elections" can make it confusing
Gwyneth Llewelyn is also fine with that
Soro Dagostino: That will be the motion.
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Patroklus Murakami waits for others to speak/ask questions
Soro Dagostino: On the amended motion.
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would also suggest that we use the words between brackets as part of the final text
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Soro Dagostino: Then Gwyn
Pip Torok supports Gwyn in this
Sonja Strom: For the whole Consititutional Amendment Gwyn?
Patroklus Murakami: well, just that point really. i think the references to 'democratic election' are essential
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pat on that
Patroklus Murakami: but the other bits in square brackets are not
Soro Dagostino: Please folk.
Soro Dagostino: In order.
Sonja Strom raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: i am happy to yield to gwyn (i think) who was next
Soro Dagostino: She was.
Soro Dagostino: Sonja next.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was finished really, pat ? the suggestion for Section 3 would thus be: "If the agreement to merge takes place less than one month before the deadline for declaring candidates in the next scheduled RA election, the community joining the CDS may, using their own democratic methods, elect a number of representatives to fill Interim Added Seats in the RA. These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election." (that's Sonja's words)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Pat and *Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm also supportive of the ".... using its own democratic methods... " as part of the text
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest, well, I really have no STRONG urge to either keep them as suggested, or to remove them )
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm actually seconding's Pat, Soro
Patroklus Murakami: sorry if i'm confusing matters. i have accepted those amends as friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Soro Dagostino: Ok..
Soro Dagostino: the question is before us.
Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote?
Patroklus Murakami: i will circulate a clean copy without square brackets when u r ready to vote
Sonja Strom raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Sonja
Sonja Strom: What do the brackets mean, and why do you want to put them into the Constitution? I think they are confusing.
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry about that. it was meant to provide flexibility. but it is confusing
Patroklus Murakami: i propose to take out [nonvoting] but include [democratic]
Patroklus Murakami: in section 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that too
Soro Dagostino: A friendly amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: and take out 'appointed' and [to provide explicit liaison....]
Soro Dagostino: Hold folk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh... well spotted
Soro Dagostino: Take a few moments and get the motion in proper form.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, keep only "elected" (however they're elected, is not of our concern)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Soro Dagostino: A recess?
Patroklus Murakami: i have a clean copy to circulate
Soro Dagostino: Ok, lets see it.
Sonja Strom: Would you please put a revision number at the end of its name?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ( thank you , Pat!)
Soro Dagostino: "Cleaned up" isn't enough? )
Sonja Strom: (too late)
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: version control!
Pip Torok: no Soro!
Sonja Strom: right
Patroklus Murakami: did everyone get that?
Pip Torok: not me
Soro Dagostino: Recess for a few.
Soro Dagostino: Get it out as proposed.
Pip Torok: got it now
Soro Dagostino: Everyone ready?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, a question...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No... just a small question
Soro Dagostino: Lets find out first if all are ready . .
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn -- your question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is it clear for everybody that the Interim Added Seats 'expire' on the next (regular) elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so ? and that might just be a question of my English being a second language ? I have nothing further to day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *say even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pip Torok: imo "interim" means just that gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Arria?
Arria Perreault: Sorry, I have crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Pip, that's what I just wished to understand
Soro Dagostino: kk
Patroklus Murakami: sorr, missed a bit out
Soro Dagostino: Claude -- do you have any comment ?
Patroklus Murakami: i may need to circulate v3
Sonja Strom raises hand
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Soro Dagostino: Claude the Sonja
Soro Dagostino: then*
Claude Desmoulins: I would note that if the join is greater than thirty days before an electtion...
Claude Desmoulins: ...the text is clear as to the duration of the interim seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, if you change it again, just change the asterisks (the bullet points) to a), b), c)..
Patroklus Murakami: 'server is experiencing difficulties' just our luck
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek
Sonja Strom: naturally
Claude Desmoulins: In the other case (<30 days) there's ambigiuity as to how long interim is. Since a regular term seat is six months, I think one could make a good argument that interim couldn't be longer than athat else it wouldn't be interim.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude, that was a bit in the same line of my own doubts...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I'll hush now!!)
Sonja Strom: I don't see that the cleaned up version has this sentence in Section 3., "These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election."
Soro Dagostino: Sonja is next
Sonja Strom: done, thanks
Soro Dagostino: Lets wait for Pat.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... Sonja's point was mine, too, as well as Claude's
Pip Torok: wb Pat
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I seconded Sonja's suggestion to add that sentence, because, in my mind, it clarifies the text much better on what is "interim", and how long it takes.
Patroklus Murakami: just a sec, was trying to correct the note when i crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all, thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Soro Dagostino: Recess for 5 min.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, do you need a partial transcript?
Patroklus Murakami: yes pls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you are
Patroklus Murakami: okay, if i add sonja's sentence at the end of section 3 does that work better?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes for me
Patroklus Murakami: then it covers both cases. less than 30 days and more than
Sonja Strom: for me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Patroklus Murakami: okay. i'll recirculate v3
Soro Dagostino: Are we ready?
Sonja Strom: wait please Pat
Sonja Strom: I have one other item to discuss.
Soro Dagostino: Back to session?
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: In Section 2, what do wethink about this sentence: "Any sims owned by the community will merge as one territory with the CDS."?
Sonja Strom: I'm not sure we should have that in as a requirement.
Patroklus Murakami: ah, i don't mean 'one contiguous territory'. they can still be in different places on the grid
Soro Dagostino: Do we need more time on this?
Patroklus Murakami: was that your concern sonja?
Sonja Strom: OK Pat, yes...
Sonja Strom: Could we maybe make the wording of that more clear?
Soro Dagostino: More discussion in the forum?
Pip Torok agrees with Sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, what about getting "half a community"?
Sonja Strom: Ah, good question Gwyneth.
Soro Dagostino: It looks as if we do?
Sonja Strom: Maybe we should work more on it before having a vote.
Soro Dagostino: Can this be postponed for a week?
Sonja Strom: (Sorry Patroklus)
Patroklus Murakami: no problem. it's best to get it right than to rush it
Sonja Strom: I think the concept of it is really good, and am thankful to Patroklus for all his work on it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, *if* I read it right, the idea is that *for purposes of calculating the number of RA members (interim or future ones)* the citizens in the sims will be added to the head count of citizens.
Soro Dagostino: May I take that as a motion to postpone?
Soro Dagostino: Discussion in the forum.
Sonja Strom: I make the motion to postpone this issue to the next meeting.
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Pip Torok: seconded
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains (either way is fine for me)
Soro Dagostino: Tie -- aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Soro Dagostino: Postponed till next week -- June 13.
Patroklus Murakami: i will post v3 to the forums to continue the discussion
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Sonja Strom: Thank you Pat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Pat!
Soro Dagostino: That reaches the end of the special meeting agenda.
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, I second the motion to adjourn...
Pip Torok is ready
Sonja Strom: I move we adjourn.
Patroklus Murakami: aye. ready to adjourn
Soro Dagostino: Good.
Pip Torok: seconded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!
The meeting closed at 9:26 Linden time.