Transcript from the RA meeting, June 17, 2010

[Rose Springvale]

[11:59] Rose Springvale: we don't quite have a quorum of RA yet, but we can go ahead with citizens concerns... so i'll call us to order
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: I´ve stored all my fav clothes on boxes
[12:00] Kaseido Quandry: wow, new and new-ish faces! yay!
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: to have them if the Lindens loose the original ones
[12:00] Rose Springvale: Welcome to the CDS Representative Assembly meeting, thank you all for being here
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[12:00] Kaseido Quandry: hi Lil!
[12:00] Rose Springvale: As you see from the sign, all our meetings are transcripted and published, so if you speak, we presume you have consented to that
[12:01] Arias Ahren: Hellow all.
[12:01] Rose Springvale: You'll find an agenda for today's meeting in the Owl box on the table in front of me, but this part of the meeting is open for our citizens to express concerns, announcements, and give us food for thought
[12:01] Timo Gufler: hello Arias
[12:01] Fern Leissa: Hello Arias
[12:01] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Arias
[12:01] Rose Springvale: Hello Arias, Bagheera
[12:01] Rose Springvale: So we are open to the citizens now
[12:01] Bagheera Kristan: Hello
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arias
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: hi all
[12:02] Arias Ahren: Good day to everyone
[12:02] Kaseido Quandry: hey Tor!
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Hi Tor
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Rose is this the spot for citizens to ask for clarification
[12:02] Rosie Gray raises a hand
[12:02] Rose Springvale: yes ma'am
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Fern first then Rosie
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Ok. Sorry. rises hand
[12:02] Rose Springvale: you have the floor Fern
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Can you clarify the status of the merger agreement? I have heard so much confusing and contradictory inf about it?
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Just briefly outline I guess
[12:03] Rose Springvale: does someone on the RA want to take that? or shall i?
[12:03] Rose Springvale: okay :0
[12:04] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:04] Rose Springvale: there is a merger agreement in effect fern, and i'll pass that to you in a moment
[12:04] Pip Torok: ??? merger agreement?
[12:04] Rose Springvale: The parties each have the opportunity to "opt out" of the agreement, for one week, commencing july 22
[12:04] Pip Torok: ah
[12:04] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip, the first on
[12:04] Rose Springvale: so this Body will vote, and 2/3 of the group will confirm the agreement
[12:05] Rose Springvale: and the Al Andalus Population will also advise their estate owner
[12:05] Rose Springvale: by July 29, we will know what happens
[12:05] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, the agreement is in effect
[12:05] Arria Perreault: we need 2/3 to confirm the agreement?
[12:05] Rose Springvale: no
[12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: no RRIA
[12:05] Rose Springvale: you need 2/3 to undo it
[12:05] Arria Perreault: pity
[12:05] Rose Springvale: i'll put the agreement in the notecard giver, so you all can take at your leisure
[12:05] Rose Springvale: you can click the owl box and get a copy now
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Rosie?
[12:06] Rosie Gray: thank you Rose
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Thank you
[12:06] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:06] Rosie Gray: I was wondering, as a new citizen and merchant in NFS
[12:06] Timo Gufler: my opinion is that, that AA citizens of the RA should abstain from the voting
[12:06] Rose Springvale: please let Rosie speak
[12:06] Arria Perreault: yes, I agreewith Timo
[12:06] Rosie Gray: is there a policy around announcements for things like new shops opening?
[12:06] Rose Springvale: you are both out of order. please
[12:07] Rosie Gray: and who can make announcements through the group?
[12:07] Rose Springvale: ah good question Rosie
[12:07] Arria Perreault: weare citizen too
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: great question!
[12:07] Rosie Gray: that's it
[12:07] Rose Springvale: The Chancellor is in charge of publicity, so you could give a note to her to make announcements, announce on the forums, and i presume, you could announce on the social media as well
[12:07] Rosie Gray: okay thank you
[12:08] Rose Springvale: also, we have people who have volunteered to be run a commerce commission ...we'll talk about that later, and they can help too
[12:08] Rosie Gray nods
[12:08] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie, you might want to look at that polic of cental landing point in NFS
[12:08] Rosie Gray: indeed that is another topic I'd like to raise Tor
[12:09] Rose Springvale: that's a good topic too
[12:09] Rosie Gray: do I still have the floor?
[12:09] Rose Springvale: sure
[12:09] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:09] Rosie Gray:
[12:09] Rose Springvale: calli next
[12:09] Rosie Gray: well as a new person here
[12:09] Rosie Gray: I am finding it difficult to find things
[12:09] Rosie Gray: even where I am supposed to pay my tier
[12:09] Rose Springvale: did you get a notecard on that Rosie?
[12:10] Rosie Gray: so I can understand that it may be hard to attract any customers to a shop that is not right on the main plaza
[12:10] Rosie Gray accepted your inventory offer.
[12:10] Rose Springvale: yes, it's a continuing problem
[12:10] Rosie Gray: is that question being addressed by a committee?
[12:11] Rose Springvale: RA members? have anything to say to Rosie on that? We can certainly assign it to a committee, but i believe that is chancellor venue as well
[12:11] Arria Perreault: we can create a committee for each issue
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Rosie I have shopes in the CDS since 2007
[12:11] Arria Perreault: it's a great idea
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: if you have any questions you can ask me any time
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: just send me an IM ans I´ll try to help you
[12:12] Rosie Gray: thanks Lilith
[12:12] Rose Springvale: Okay, i'll assign that to the covenant review commission... and maybe commerce can make a recommendation as well
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol nods
[12:12] Rosie Gray: great thank you Rose
[12:12] Rose Springvale: or "we" will assign it
[12:12] Rose Springvale: anything else Rosie?
[12:12] Arria Perreault: This commission doesn't yet exist, Rose
[12:12] Rosie Gray: no that's all from me
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks Arria, its on the agenda today
[12:13] Arria Perreault: the RA should it first and discuss about its mission
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: but sounds like a good idea to have one
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:13] Arria Perreault: yes, we love committee
[12:13] Rose Springvale: we are here listening to our citizens, i am sure the RA will find a way to respond
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Calli??
[12:13] Arria Perreault: why not a committee about commiittes
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: As food for thought for everyone, since many people never fllow the Lindex and exchange rates, the value of lindens has dropped dramatically in the last few days and is going through major fluctuations. This affects tier cost, and value of lindens held in world. It is a good time to be aware of the Lindex and what is happening to the linden.
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: that's all
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: excellent, Calli - I was going to raise that on the forums
[12:14] Arria Perreault: whyt is the current rate?
[12:14] Arria Perreault: what*
[12:14] Rose Springvale: exchanges are one of those things that elude me... can you put that in understandable language for me Calli
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: last trade was at 275
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: until 2 weks ago on average it was 260
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: was 267 yesterday
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: it hit 300 at one point yesterday
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: this is a good explanation: http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/06/17 ... en-dollar/
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: anyway..something to be asare of
[12:15] Rose Springvale: but does it mean our tier costs us more or less?
[12:15] Pip Torok: so the RL dollar tier will be lower?
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: there was an official "don't worry be happy" announcement from LL too
[12:15] Rose Springvale: and how does it affect our reserves?
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: means our tier is highter in Lindens
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: it devalues Linden dollar reserves
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: and if our reserves are in Lindens, we've just lost a bundel
[12:15] Rose Springvale: ah
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: I got a mail from M. Linden a few days ago
[12:16] Pip Torok: i see
[12:16] Callipygian Christensen: it may well level out and go back to 'normal'..but still something to keep in awareness
[12:16] Kaseido Quandry: this should seriously concern all of us, particularly our fiscal conservatives
[12:16] Rose Springvale: thanks Calli. I hope our finance commission can look at that in depth
[12:17] Arria Perreault: the best advice: don't panic
[12:17] Pip Torok: any possibility to keep US $ reserves instead of Lindens?
[12:17] Kaseido Quandry: we should look seriously at that, I think, Pip
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: noted
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: too late...
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: horse is out of the barn
[12:17] Rose Springvale: i think its a simple conversion in the avatar account
[12:17] Bagheera Kristan: Ihave acitizen concern, if there is time, or it can wait until next meeting
[12:17] Rose Springvale: lindens to usd
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I see what you are trying to do ....
[12:18] Rose Springvale: lets see if we want to extend
[12:18] Callipygian Christensen: Yes, you cnan do that and perhaps the treasurer does, but now is not a great time to make the switch if not
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: It is an argument of real life acct in UDD
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: USD
[12:18] Rose Springvale: is there a motion from RA to extend time?
[12:18] Kaseido Quandry: so moved
[12:18] Rose Springvale: for five minutes?
[12:18] Pip Torok: for this occasion cindy but what about a further devaluation?
[12:18] Arria Perreault: is the US dollar the best choice?
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: the euro isn't today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: (to extend 5 minutes)
[12:19] Arria Perreault: there are others
[12:19] Rose Springvale: thanks All in favor of extending time 5 minutes for citzens concerns. say aye
[12:19] Pip Torok: imho the best athis moment Arria
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:19] Pip Torok: aye
[12:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:19] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:19] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:19] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:19] Rose Springvale: okay, we'll go on for 5 more minutes
[12:20] Rose Springvale: lets defer the currency issue to finance and the treasurer.
[12:20] Rose Springvale: Bagheera?
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:20] Bagheera Kristan: About a week ago, there was a fellow citizen building on my land at 1000m, I went to speak with him but he went "Away" so I ejected him and his objects - but I felt badly because I think he may have been there temporarily to pray. I wonder if a rez time can be extended to CDS community property, allowing citizens to rez for about 10-15 minutes (or whatever we think is best)?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: that would mean turning on auto return Bagheera, and we have a problem with that with the number of builders in CDS
[12:20] Bagheera Kristan: okay? I didn't know
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: if we do that all prins not set to group will get send back
[12:21] Pip Torok: Bags, you were right to eject him if you were owner and he was taken your prim-allowance ...
[12:21] Kaseido Quandry: you can set a longer timer for *your* property tho
[12:21] Rose Springvale: all objects not owned by the land owner would be returned. yes
[12:21] Bagheera Kristan: okay, thank you
[12:21] Pip Torok: (taken=taking)
[12:21] Rose Springvale: and there are public places people can use, just refer him to one of the exec team, they will find a place
[12:22] Bagheera Kristan: noted, thank you
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, if you oset any time other than "0" then ALL prims not set properly to group will return.
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: yep, that'd be a nice chance to engage with people who want to do things here
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: as rose says, that's a problem...
[12:22] Rose Springvale: but there are public prims and public land, so just need to redirect folks
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy, very true - I've done that - *cough* once *cough*
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: best thing is to periodically "sweep" your property and see if there are any prims you don't want there.
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: yeah, we've all done that ....once
[12:22] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[12:23] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: hehe yes
[12:23] Rose Springvale: yes Rosie?
[12:23] Rosie Gray: sorry just wondering if it's written down anywhere where these public rez places are
[12:23] Rosie Gray: I didn't know there were any
[12:24] Rose Springvale: there isn't a sand box per se, but all land owned by rudeen edo is public land. Just check with the chancellor
[12:24] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:24] Rose Springvale: or the guild too, they have some land
[12:24] Rosie Gray: so it's not exactly publicized
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lets move to the agenda now
[12:24] Rose Springvale: some folks need to leave at 1, so we can take more questions later
[12:24] Rosie Gray: yes sorry
[12:24] Rose Springvale: Any additions or corrections to the Agenda?
[12:25] Rose Springvale: seeing none, we'll proceed as printed
[12:25] Rose Springvale: For informational purposes, the online indicators have been updated as well as the AA group titles
[12:25] Rose Springvale: CDS groups still need update i see
[12:26] Rose Springvale: we'll get those fixed asap
[12:26] Rose Springvale: any other administrative details from the RA?
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Then lets move to old business
[12:26] Arria Perreault: there are 7day votes
[12:27] Rose Springvale: yes, there were and they were posted with the summaries.
[12:27] Arria Perreault: for this meeting I mean
[12:27] Rose Springvale: the only vote affected by 7 day votes was that of the Chancellor. The vote total was 6-6-1
[12:28] Rose Springvale: yes, there are for this meeting, thanks. their votes will be recorded. I'll ask if you have requested 7 day that you register your vote on the RA discussion thread, instead of general discussion please.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: As it stands we are deadlocked on the chancellor vote
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: We did not elect a chancellor
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I motion we have a revote
[12:29] Timo Gufler: we have a chancellor
[12:29] Rose Springvale: there is a motion to revote on the chancellor election. is there a second/
[12:29] Pip Torok: /mw supports Timo
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The constitution requires that we elect a chancellor not hold one over
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:30] Rose Springvale: thank you, Discussion?
[12:30] Arria Perreault: were both candidates informed that we will vote about this point today?
[12:30] Timo Gufler: but we tried to vote for a new one but that failed
[12:30] Rose Springvale: it is on the agenda
[12:30] Arria Perreault: a 7 day vote was expected
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: I saw it on the agenda
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol notes that 7 day vote was a tie
[12:30] Rose Springvale: 7 day votes will be honored arria, no issue
[12:30] Arria Perreault: maybe someone doesnt read every day
[12:30] Rose Springvale: discussion on the motion?
[12:31] Kaseido Quandry: maybe reading the agenda is someone's job?
[12:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:31] Rose Springvale: not the point. 7 day votes will all be honored
[12:31] Arria Perreault: a mail would have been polite
[12:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:32] Kaseido Quandry: Rose, please send us engraved invitations each week asking us to be minimally compentent? It's *soooo* easy to forget.....
[12:32] Rose Springvale: the agenda was included in the group notice, all people have the option of receiving those in email
[12:32] Rose Springvale: now now
[12:32] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on the motion?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: shall we move to vote then?
[12:33] Rose Springvale: All in favor of Sonja Strom as chancellor say aye please
[12:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:33] Pip Torok: aye
[12:33] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:33] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:34] Rose Springvale: thank you. All in favor of Cindy Ecksol as chancellor, say aye please
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:35] Kaseido Quandry: .
[12:36] Rose Springvale: abstentions?
[12:36] Rose Springvale: smiels
[12:36] Rose Springvale: chair votes for cindy, and seeing as she's crashed, she'll have 7 day as well
[12:36] Rose Springvale: lets move on then, and see if 7 day votes break the deadlock
[12:36] Rose Springvale: Term priorities
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I have a remark about a commission which was created during the last meeting
[12:37] Timo Gufler: does this mean, we vote as many times until we don't result a tie?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Back to the agenda list, we've been requested by the SC to make sure all the loose ends in the election process are tied up well in advance of the elections
[12:37] Rose Springvale: you may remark abotu old business later arria, and timo, its a democracy, if people want to keep making motions, we'll keep voting
[12:38] Arria Perreault: it was a remark
[12:38] Rose Springvale: Gwyneth has agreed to chair such a commission. Does anyone wish to move that it be created?
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: so moveed
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: *moved
[12:38] Rose Springvale: kas, can you give me language please
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry moves to create an elections commission to clarify procedures, to be chaired by Gwyneth Llewellyn
[12:39] Rose Springvale: thank you. Second?
[12:39] Arria Perreault: what is the mission of the commission?
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: I second
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:39] Rose Springvale: clarify election procedures
[12:39] Rose Springvale: discussion
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I have also send a request to the SC
[12:40] Arria Perreault: but I did not get any news
[12:40] Rose Springvale: does that have relevance to this motion Arria?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: it's a related to this question
[12:40] Rose Springvale: okay
[12:40] Rose Springvale: do you want to share your concern?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:40] Rose Springvale: you have the floor
[12:41] Arria Perreault: during the last term, we have voted a constitutionnal amendment and a bill about campaigning. The constitutional amendment did not pass, but the bill did
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I have asked the SC to see if the bill is valid or not
[12:42] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evenin Kas
[12:42] Rose Springvale: m understnading is that unless flagged, the bill is valid after 14 days, but i'm sure the SC will advice you of that
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening Lil !
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: hi stui
[12:42] Rose Springvale: hi Stui
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I think that the SC should solve this issue too
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou Tor !
[12:42] Arria Perreault: done
[12:43] Delia Lake raises her hand
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hi Rosy !
[12:43] Rose Springvale: thanks. Delia?
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Tor is grey an naked
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy
[12:43] Kaseido Quandry grins
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: don´t tell him but I see him Ruthed
[12:43] Delia Lake: Arria did make a request to the SC re the bill that passed. we are discussing it and will have a ruling very soon
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: geech
[12:44] Delia Lake: however, there are still many implementation issues that are not specified in actually running an election
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: haha

[Rose Springvale]

[12:44] Arria Perreault: Delia, don't you discuss this point in a public meeting?
[12:44] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on creation of the Electoral commission?
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's good to share
[12:44] Delia Lake: it will be posted on the SC Discussion on the Forum
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: we have a long bench
[12:45] Rose Springvale: shall we call the question then?
[12:45] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:45] Rose Springvale: here is the motion: create an elections commission to clarify procedures, to be chaired by Gwyneth Llewellyn
[12:46] Rose Springvale: all in favor please say aye
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:46] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:46] Pip Torok: aye
[12:46] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:46] Rose Springvale: opposed?
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: sorry was in IM
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I missed my chance
[12:47] Rose Springvale: you can vote, aye or nay
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: I vote aye for the comission
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll say Aye to GL
[12:47] Rose Springvale: thank you, Motion carries
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can't have GL bored
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: keep her busy
[12:47] Kaseido Quandry smiles
[12:48] Rose Springvale: I'd like to remind everyoe that creating these commissions is only the administrative step. WE need participation at the committee level to make them work
[12:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll try
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: yes!
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry is psyched to join the working groups
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: we lost Mu
[12:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can't promise
[12:48] Arria Perreault: at the end of the meeting, we will have 7 committees
[12:48] Rose Springvale: it would be very helpful if we could get them all calendared too
[12:48] Rose Springvale: yes but that is how work gets done
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: omg yes please
[12:49] Arria Perreault: we are 13
[12:49] Rose Springvale: perhaps you can take that on Arria
[12:49] Rose Springvale: making sure the committee meetings make our calendar
[12:49] Arria Perreault: I did not get any offer
[12:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's todays special offer
[12:49] Rose Springvale: hm. thought i just asked. but okay
[12:49] Rose Springvale: lets move on, we'll get the chancellor the information, she can deal with it i'm sure
[12:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who is the chancellor ?
[12:50] Rose Springvale: We have had several commerce groups over the years. some have been active and successful
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja is until we finally have a winner of the election.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Mu
[12:50] Rose Springvale: others have come up with plans that have not proceeded
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thanks crashed
[12:51] Rose Springvale: we've got two RA res who would like to try again with a commerce commission
[12:51] Arria Perreault: France : Mexico 0:1
[12:51] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm very commercial
[12:51] Timo Gufler: hehe, Arria
[12:51] Rose Springvale: The mission of the commerce commission would be to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS
[12:51] Rose Springvale: Stui and Lilith have volunteered to lead the commission
[12:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm just the pretty face
[12:52] Rose Springvale: and bring us whatever legislation they thing would serve the interests of this part of our population
[12:52] Rose Springvale: is there a motion to create it?
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: lol Stui a pretty face with a smart brain
[12:52] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[12:52] Rose Springvale: lets get a motion first arria
[12:52] Rose Springvale: then discussion
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: I move to to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS, with Stui and Lilith as chairs
[12:53] Rose Springvale: thanks kas
[12:53] Rose Springvale: second?
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: woops, to create a commerce commission to....
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:53] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:53] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:53] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Woo hoo
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Since years, I try to explane that SL commerce have evolved. We have to take in account the Xstreet platform
[12:54] Arria Perreault: commerce is less and less local
[12:54] Arria Perreault: I also consider that commerce is not the good concept
[12:54] Arria Perreault: where are the services?
[12:55] Rose Springvale: services?
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui?
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: some of your citizen can also sell services, not only goods
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:55] Rose Springvale: that is also commerce
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: Xstreet is only one tool to sell something in SL
[12:55] Arria Perreault: for example the musicians
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor is going to open a escort agency
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: also you need a place where people can look at your items
[12:55] Arria Perreault: it's a businees to be musician in SL
[12:56] Kaseido Quandry: Arria's got a good point , and I hope she participates in the commission
[12:56] Rose Springvale: Commerce is a division of trade or production which deals with the exchange of goods and services from producer to final consumer OR commerce is the exchage of goods and services from the producer to the consumer. ...
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Lil, I prefer in world shopping
[12:56] Arria Perreault: they should be included in the reflexions of this commission
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that it's key that we look at the quality of product presentation in our stores
[12:56] Kaseido Quandry: I'm also happy to get the communications commission coordinating with what you do
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I would assume that.
[12:56] Rose Springvale: everyone in the community is welcomed and encouraged to participate, that's the whole point
[12:57] Rose Springvale: all meetings will be open, in varying time zones and days of the week, so that we CAN have all particpate
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, things like central landing points.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to ensure that if we are to exploit Xstreet, that when it brings people to CDS that they perhaps are encouraged to shop around
[12:57] Rose Springvale: then the chairs will report back to the RA for actions
[12:57] Arria Perreault: we will spend our sl life in commissions
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: better than in RA.
[12:57] Arria Perreault: no parties anymore
[12:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:57] Timo Gufler: agrees with Arria
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: I´ve a lot of ideas how to bring more customers
[12:57] Arria Perreault: only commission meetings
[12:58] Arria Perreault: great term
[12:58] Rose Springvale: you are free to post on the forums
[12:58] Kaseido Quandry: omg not work!
[12:58] Kaseido Quandry faints from exhaustion
[12:58] Rose Springvale: other discussion?
[12:59] Arria Perreault: as AA is non profit, is the commerce still allowed?
[12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well commissions that improve the efficiency of the sims
[12:59] Pip Torok: good point Arria
[12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and make them ultimately more pleasant will lead to profitability and self sufficiency
[12:59] Ranma Tardis: is it the job of government to promote the business intrests of the few and ingore the needs of the majority?
[12:59] Delia Lake is imagining fun commission meetings with live music playing
[12:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:00] Kaseido Quandry: woot, Delia! I'll hire the caterers!
[13:00] Rose Springvale: folks we have volunteers who want to pursue this area of interest to them.
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and besides from stabilising influences of reassuring the community thru action
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I had a question, I think
[13:00] Rose Springvale: everyont doesn't have to participate
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can deliver better parties from the proceeds of increased appeal
[13:00] Arria Perreault: if AA is non-profit, is the commerce still allowed?
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: and dancers and bonbons
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:00] Rose Springvale: and i think your question is one for the commission to discuss, not us in forming a commission
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps the businesses will have launch parties
[13:00] Rose Springvale: education comes in many forms though i think
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: many do
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I agree with that. It's an issue that this commission must adress
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe I can persuade a gay club to migrate
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the right incentive
[13:01] Ranma Tardis: still business in a private concern over o public one
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: only if it's in theme, Stui, lol
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they are great for loyal traffic
[13:01] Arria Perreault: it's private, Ramna
[13:01] Rose Springvale: are we ready for the vote establishing the commission?
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha the romans were all up for a bit of gay
[13:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:02] Arria Perreault: CDS should offer good conditions. that's all
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: righ
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: t
[13:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP have a little faith
[13:02] Rose Springvale: okay, time is up for discussion
[13:02] Rose Springvale: here is the motion: to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS, with Stui and Lilith as chairs
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I believe only in facts
[13:03] Rose Springvale: all in favor, say aye, opposed, nay
[13:03] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:03] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:03] Timo Gufler: nay
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I don't how many commissions about commerce we already had
[13:03] Pip Torok: nay
[13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[13:03] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: so let´s give it another try hehe
[13:04] Rose Springvale: chair vote aye, and it goes to 7 day
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: so if we fail before we should jsut not try?
[13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Lil if it'd been you on your own you would have had more support *LOL*
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: last term Pat encouraged me and Sol to renew the comerce commision
[13:04] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hard to belive this is a problem.
[13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I apologise
[13:04] Pip Torok: it is, Tor
[13:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:05] Arria Perreault: Lilith, if CDS goes non-profit, we can close our shops or we sell only as non-profit
[13:05] Arria Perreault: so why a commission?
[13:05] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, we might accomplish something other than the endless circle-jerk, and then where would we all be?!
[13:05] Rose Springvale: now, i have listed three more commisions,why on earth woudl you say that?
[13:05] Timo Gufler: who says the CDS will go to non-profit?
[13:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe we should amend the chairs *LOL*
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS is not going non-profit. Geesh
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: I think that´s not true Aria
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I don't know
[13:05] You decline Seraph City from A group member named Pumpkin Tripsa.
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I said "if2
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[13:05] Arria Perreault: "if"
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Sudane explained Non profid and shop rentals a few month age
[13:05] Timo Gufler: the CDS is indepent of any external orgnanization right now
[13:06] Rose Springvale: the remaining commissions on our agenda are things that have come from other citizens
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: it´s would still be possible
[13:06] Rose Springvale: we can discuss them or not
[13:06] Pip Torok: and long may it remain so ...
[13:06] Jamie Palisades smiles. Except the ones that own it already?
[13:07] Timo Gufler: oh yes... Linden Lab
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I hope it stays so, Timo
[13:07] Timo Gufler: but we can't help that
[13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:07] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to talk about covenant review?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: France: Mexico 0:2
[13:07] Jamie Palisades: ?me looks around for Mses. Erato and Llewellyn. Some things can be helped, but not others, eh Timo?
[13:07] Rose Springvale: this came from a citizen, via the forums
[13:07] Rose Springvale: hi jamie
[13:08] Jamie Palisades luaghs -- you want to do a commission, Ropse? I can help, if that's what the RA wants. God knows it;s overdue
[13:08] Rose Springvale: if you all would like to revive the corporate ownership commission, we can add it to the list for an even 8
[13:08] Pip Torok: what would be the purpose of this commission?
[13:08] Rose Springvale: which are you volunteering for Jamie?
[13:08] Rose Springvale: covenants or ownership?
[13:08] Pip Torok: covenants
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Convenant review is for the Guild
[13:08] Rose Springvale: actually no
[13:08] Jamie Palisades chuckles. Chat lag. Doe sthe RA want to do covenant review and harmonization? hahah yes, they;ve done so well.
[13:08] Rose Springvale: the guild made that very clear.
[13:09] Arria Perreault: in your program, you announced also that you would revivify the Guild
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we have had a request from a citizen to look at the covenants.
[13:09] Rose Springvale: indeed, and the guild met last week. and will meet again i believe after this week
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: true, the guild wants RA to set the theme and such
[13:09] Rose Springvale: no
[13:09] Pip Torok: "look at" means what?
[13:09] Rose Springvale: the guild doesn't want to deal with covenants
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we have 11 sims
[13:10] Rose Springvale: and 6 different covenants
[13:10] Timo Gufler: but what if RA wants guild to deal with the covenants?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: some of them are accessible through the land tabs
[13:10] Jamie Palisades: Then I guess you better all go to meetings there and help Moon get a quorum
[13:10] Rose Springvale: i think, if i understand moons position, they will decline as this is legislative
[13:10] Arria Perreault: can we propose convenant for the AA sims too?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: we can ignore it.
[13:10] Rose Springvale: of course, AA is CDS
[13:11] Jamie Palisades: only if you don't kill the merger, dears.
[13:11] Timo Gufler: hehe
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I am temptaded ...
[13:11] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:11] Arria Perreault: temptated
[13:11] Kaseido Quandry: we love you too Arria
[13:11] Rose Springvale: i thnk you mean tempted
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I know, Kas
[13:11] Rose Springvale: so ... no on covenant review?
[13:11] Jamie Palisades: ANyway, suffice to say, ladies & gentlemen, if there is going to be a covenant review, happy to help. It was key unfinished business, last time I looked. And yes, it woudl need to include AA to make any sense, unless you guys kjill it before then.
[13:12] Arria Perreault: I mean: I like the idea to write a convenant for AA sims
[13:12] Rose Springvale: thank you jamie
[13:12] Rose Springvale: there is a covenant in place there at least... nto so with NFS lol
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I bet you do AP
[13:12] Rose Springvale: folks
[13:12] Rose Springvale: lets either have a motion or move on
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Jamie, we don't have this power ...
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps you could visit it some time
[13:12] Jamie Palisades: Arria, you do, over AA, until you throw them out
[13:12] Timo Gufler: if there would be a covenant committe, I propose Jamie chairs it
[13:13] Rose Springvale: we'd need a motion for such a committee first
[13:13] Arria Perreault: I have visited AA and I like what I have seen
[13:13] Timo Gufler: oh yes
[13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would propose to invite AP to AA to fact find before recommending her input
[13:13] Rose Springvale: this is how we get things done folks
[13:13] Timo Gufler: or oh no
[13:13] Arria Perreault: who will be the chair?
[13:13] Jamie Palisades: Timo,, as it;s a tough issue here, why don't i volunteer to write up what such a commitee would do, if it exists, and Forum post it, you guys can read that they think about it next meeting?
[13:13] Kaseido Quandry: I like that
[13:14] Jamie Palisades: *read it and then thikn about it
[13:14] Pip Torok agrees
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I volunteer to be chair
[13:14] Rose Springvale: that's a great idea and generous offer, thanks
[13:14] Timo Gufler: yes, Jamie
[13:14] Rose Springvale: lets take a look at what jamie comes up with, and determine the form we need for further researche
[13:14] Jamie Palisades smiles. I'll limit myself to writing the description as a proposal for now. Good.
[13:14] Rose Springvale: thanks jamie
[13:15] Rose Springvale: moving on... Ethics and conflicts of interest have been a major issue this term
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I have read lots of what Jamie said abt covenants and liked his approach.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: and it is time we have a cds policy on it
[13:16] Timo Gufler: policy?
[13:16] Rose Springvale: The person who seems to be the most concerned about this is Pat, so i'd move that we set up a conflict/ethics committie to come up with a cds policy, and let Pat tell us what he thinks we need
[13:16] Timo Gufler: another commitee...
[13:16] Kaseido Quandry: that sounds terrific
[13:16] Rose Springvale: best if we all know rather than be accused.
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: A do's and don't for office holders.
[13:16] Arria Perreault: what that means? about convenant?
[13:16] Rose Springvale: covenant has been dealt with for now, We are talking about conflicts of interest and ethics
[13:17] Timo Gufler: we should be able to make decisons without ten committees!
[13:17] Arria Perreault: what did we decide?
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: committies involve more residents
[13:17] Ranma Tardis: should it not be done by the residents of each sim instead of ditating from the central government?
[13:17] Rose Springvale: timo, we are representative democracy. when we have the fact from the committed, then we make decisions
[13:17] Kaseido Quandry: we don't need "decisions," we need *work*
[13:17] Rose Springvale: we dont' shoot from the hip
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: and have more time to work something out
[13:18] Timo Gufler: who wants to spend all his/her virtual time sitting in committees?
[13:18] Arria Perreault: Rose, can you tell me what we/you decide about convenants?
[13:18] Jamie Palisades: (Tor, all "CDS commissions" have rules requiring that we let all citizens attend & participate. Been in our laws for a long time.)
[13:18] Kaseido Quandry: Timo, nobody forced you to take this job
[13:18] Rose Springvale: arria, sure, let me cut and paste
[13:18] Timo Gufler: but if you want to infcluence, you must sit there
[13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP well you want to chair a commission upon covenants you tell us what you'd decide
[13:18] Kaseido Quandry: if you want to step down because you can't handle it, that's ok
[13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm rivetted to know
[13:18] Rose Springvale: [13:14] Rose Springvale: lets take a look at what jamie comes up with, and determine the form we need for further researche
[13:14] Jamie Palisades smiles. I'll limit myself to writing the description as a proposal for now. Good.
[13:19] Arria Perreault: it was your proposal
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we did not vote
[13:19] Rose Springvale: okay folks lets keep moving here.
[13:19] Rose Springvale: no
[13:19] Timo Gufler: how were decisions made before committees?
[13:19] Pip Torok notes that Kas is quick to suggest the absence of RA members ...
[13:19] Rose Springvale: we accepted jamies offer to write up a proposal and post o nthe forums
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we= ?

[Rose Springvale]

[13:19] Rose Springvale: then we'll discuss again
[13:19] Arria Perreault: I did not vote
[13:19] Rose Springvale: there was no motion
[13:19] Jamie Palisades: naah, no acceptance, really, just an offe3r made in public RA can always vote it down, or choose not to act.
[13:20] Rose Springvale: this was unstructured discussion
[13:20] Kaseido Quandry: I am, Pip - we ran for office, we have a duty to do something, and not just play hall monitor
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **'`*`'** Stui **'`*`'**
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: notes that Pip is quick to point out the obvious
[13:20] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:20] Rose Springvale: now
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we don't need a commission on conflicts and ethics
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we can go on calling each other names and pointing fingers
[13:20] Rose Springvale: but that's not particularly flattering to our community
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I have a talent for inspiring that
[13:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I did last term
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: odd that the side so concerned about ethics in the past now does not want a commission.
[13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps I can foster it
[13:21] Timo Gufler: what would that committee do? write the CDS version of Bible/Quaran?
[13:21] Rose Springvale: if you'd like to have a policy, or talk about it more...
[13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am like a pariah
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I don't think a commission will solve the question of conflicts of interest
[13:21] Kaseido Quandry: TImo, there isn't an organization in the world that doesn't have a written code of conduct
[13:22] Timo Gufler: majority should not decide what is ethical wnad what is not, since it's question about conscience
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the commission coud define it for CDS
[13:22] Pip Torok: the problem is that victims of name-calling leave and are not around to support critics of this practice
[13:22] Timo Gufler: The CDS Ethics?
[13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: a commission could arrange some education perhaps
[13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha but then the RA would vote about expulsion of a citizen from the sims
[13:22] Arria Perreault: to list examples
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: This is a common issue in RL governments
[13:22] Kaseido Quandry: Pip's absolutely right - without a clear polcy, there's a race to the bottom in accusations and name calling
[13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: surely that must have a set code of conduct implied
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: and always here as well.
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or else the citizenship will be running wild
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: imagine that
[13:23] Rose Springvale: Pip, would you be interested in leading some discussion on this?
[13:23] Timo Gufler: if we have a policy then it will be time for interpreting it
[13:23] Pip Torok: yes
[13:23] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'd be frolickin with a view to never getting a bollocking
[13:23] Pip Torok: but via the Forums ...
[13:23] Rose Springvale: Would you like it to be informal or as a commision?
[13:23] Rose Springvale: no
[13:23] Rose Springvale: i'm not okay with forums only discussions
[13:23] Kaseido Quandry: no, in SL
[13:23] Timo Gufler: all policies have loopholes
[13:23] Pip Torok: it wd be a _discussion_
[13:23] Rose Springvale: based on the number of citizens not accessing the froums
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree, we are an in-world experience.
[13:24] Pip Torok: informal, not a commission
[13:24] Kaseido Quandry: meet openly in SL, or don't do it
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: having english not as my first language I´ve problems to take part in forum discussions
[13:24] Rose Springvale: Kas, would you like to run something n world if pip doesn't want to?
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: imo there should be meetings inworld
[13:25] Pip Torok: why Kas ... we need extended arguments and thats difficult in chat
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: I'd like to coordinate with Pat- maybe we can co-organize
[13:25] Pip Torok: but possible in the Forums
[13:25] Rose Springvale: access, accountbility, and action folks
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: you can always submit notecards Pip
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: and the forums have serious issues with the kind of behavior that doesn't happen as much face to face
[13:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because the forums are often degenerative in discussion
[13:25] Callipygian Christensen: The two avenues are not mutually exclusive..have meetings and discuss what comes up on the forums as well
[13:25] Rose Springvale: okay, so now we have Pip volunteering to start a forum thread, and Kas will hold a meeting in world, iviting pat to participate
[13:25] Rose Springvale: with her
[13:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and rather prone to irrelevance and derailing
[13:26] Rose Springvale: are we satisfied with that?
[13:26] Rose Springvale: stui
[13:26] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: it's a compromise
[13:26] Rose Springvale: can i have a motion so we can summarise this?
[13:26] Arria Perreault: we don't vote anymmore in RA ...
[13:26] Rose Springvale: arria, we will
[13:26] Rose Springvale: just not withouth information from the citiens
[13:26] Rose Springvale: citizens
[13:26] Kaseido Quandry: move to begin a discussion on ethics, me and Pat to coordinate inworld meetings, Pip to launch a forum thread
[13:27] Rose Springvale: thank you. second?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[13:27] Pip Torok: seconded
[13:27] Rose Springvale: thanks In favor, Aye, opposed nay
[13:27] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:27] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:27] Pip Torok: aye
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:27] Timo Gufler: aye
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:27] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:27] Rose Springvale: stui?
[13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
[13:28] Rose Springvale: thanks Motion carries. Remember that each of these commisions will be the basis for discussion and legislation at future RA meetings
[13:28] Rose Springvale: there is method here
[13:28] Arria Perreault: (still no commission for Arria ...)
[13:28] Rose Springvale: we plan the work, then work the plan
[13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: wheels out a cross
[13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles. there is still the citizen ship commission... interested in chairing that Arria?
[13:29] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[13:29] Rose Springvale: okay, so if we get a motion and a mission for it...
[13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:30] Delia Lake hopes that any new citizenship commission will public and not a private workgroup with no log.......
[13:30] Arria Perreault: yes,maybe it's not an important concern ...
[13:31] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want to have this commission
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: I motion that we create a citizenship commission chaired by Arria.
[13:31] Rose Springvale: mission being?
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account of my experience of the last one
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll sit with Arria
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Its mission being to review the rules of citizenship and make recommendations to RA.
[13:31] Arria Perreault: define the conditions to have the citizenship in CDS
[13:31] Rose Springvale: all members of the RA and community are encouraged to participat
[13:32] Jamie Palisades raises hand - a question?
[13:32] Arria Perreault: on my right or on my left, Stui ?
[13:32] Rose Springvale: one moment jamie
[13:32] Rose Springvale: we'll get the motion on the floor and then discuss
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP I'll sit on your shoulders
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I second
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can carry me
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don't mind
[13:32] Rose Springvale: discussion
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I am too weak for that
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm only 112lbs soaking wet
[13:32] Rose Springvale: smiles stui...
[13:33] Arria Perreault: keep your wings then
[13:33] Rose Springvale: any discussion on the citizenship commission
[13:33] Jamie Palisades raises that hand again
[13:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have the 3rd transcript of the last one yet ?
[13:33] Rose Springvale: jamie go on
[13:33] Jamie Palisades: is the idea here to, among other things, solve the landless- citizen-by-being-someone's-buddy-in-a-big-group issue? Are there other specific points that are seen as trouble areas?
[13:34] Rose Springvale: yes, that and the issues of group citizenship where the group is more than a buddy in a big group
[13:34] Arria Perreault: it belongs to this, yes
[13:34] Rose Springvale: We have two groups in Al Andalus that want to have input on this commission
[13:34] Rose Springvale: muhammed represents one, Delia the other
[13:34] Rose Springvale: so please try to hold meetings when they can participate
[13:34] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:34] Rose Springvale: there may be others in CDS as well
[13:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thank you
[13:35] Jamie Palisades nods. OK, I told Desmond that 985 caledon ISC members can't be citizens, through one Caledon house, last year. Smile
[13:35] Delia Lake would like to be part of the citizenship commission, yes
[13:35] Rose Springvale: it was 1456 i think and no one certified them!
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: I´ll try to come also
[13:35] Arria Perreault: I will make advertising
[13:35] Rose Springvale: great. So shall we give them authority by voting on the motion?
[13:35] Jamie Palisades: (Nah, the other 400 are Kamiliah's alts)
[13:36] Timo Gufler: we should not only make meeting times good for AA people but CDS people also
[13:36] Arria Perreault: everyone is welcome. meeting will be public. transcripts will be published
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would welcome Delia and muh to sit too
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the table is big and round
[13:36] Rose Springvale: i've asked that Timo, that each group try to meet at least three times
[13:36] Rose Springvale: one time for eu time zones, one for us, and one weekend if possible
[13:36] Rose Springvale: okay, ready to vote?
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:37] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[13:37] Pip Torok: lets vote
[13:38] Rose Springvale: motion reads:create a citizenship commission chaired by Arria. Its mission being to review the rules of citizenship and make recommendations to RA.
[13:38] Rose Springvale: in favor aye, opposed nay
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:38] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:39] Pip Torok: aye
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :p :p
[13:39] Timo Gufler: nay for committees (aye for Arria)
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I mean oui
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is that a yes or a no then Timo ?
[13:39] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:39] Timo Gufler: nay
[13:39] Rose Springvale: thank you motion carries.
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don't confuse me too much
[13:39] Rose Springvale: end of commissions, unless someone has more?
[13:40] Timo Gufler: at least not me
[13:40] Arria Perreault: we can try to think about ..
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have a commission to end all commissions chaired by Timo ?
[13:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he seems eager to help
[13:40] Timo Gufler: good idea, Stui
[13:40] Rose Springvale: now, you all see that there is a lot of work to do
[13:40] Callipygian Christensen: hi Alexia
[13:40] Rose Springvale: we have a maximum of 24 meetings left
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: hi Alexia
[13:41] Rose Springvale: so let me knwo when you want to be on the calendar, and look at my proposed dates on the original notes.
[13:41] Kaseido Quandry: this is going to be a right mess if we don't get the calendar working
[13:41] Rose Springvale: we will give RA time to you, and please look at the RA procedures on how to report back from commission
[13:41] Rose Springvale: if no one else will do it, i'll make sure they are there kas
[13:42] Rose Springvale: any questiosn before we move on?
[13:42] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[13:42] Rose Springvale: Great. we are on taget to finish. is that the commission process Arria?
[13:43] Arria Perreault: yes, in rules of procedures of the RA
[13:43] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:43] Arria Perreault: (in the portal)
[13:43] Rose Springvale: the next item on the agenda is the operating agreement for for the al andalus sims
[13:44] Rose Springvale: AS you can see in the merger agreement, there was an option for CDS to create a non profit organization to hold the AA sims
[13:44] Rose Springvale: this is not a quick and easy process, but the merger can still be completed by virtue of an operating agreement between CDS and the estate owner of AA, Virtual Democracy Inc.
[13:45] Rose Springvale: So it would be good to have some people working on that
[13:45] Rose Springvale: do you want to discuss this?
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:45] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:46] Rose Springvale: Jamie, i know you didn't come to make presentations, but would you be interested in helping us on this discussion, as there is concern that i'm not unbiased
[13:46] Rose Springvale: i probably should have asked that privately lol
[13:46] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[13:46] Jamie Palisades: nice
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: well, i WROE the mreger agreement
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: *wrote it
[13:47] Rose Springvale remembers
[13:47] Arria Perreault: I think we need also poeple from each opinion
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: so I am at least as biased as the people who lost the campaign to kill it
[13:47] Rose Springvale: right now we as CDS have a legal agreement
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: is that still a CDS anti-arab ovement now? or is AA considered a settled part of CDS?
[13:48] Jamie Palisades: becqauwe, yes, *legally*, you guys have to act within about a month
[13:48] Arria Perreault: no Jamie, the question is different
[13:48] Arria Perreault: I have a first question
[13:48] Jamie Palisades smiles., I will be happy, as the guy who designer the merger in a former role, to answer questions in the RA wishes, Rose.
[13:48] Jamie Palisades: *designed
[13:48] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[13:49] Jamie Palisades: *if
[13:49] Rose Springvale: go on arria
[13:49] muhammedyussif Wikinger: MY rises hand
[13:49] Arria Perreault: there are several lawyers in this room. I would like to know what is the validity of an agreement between VDI, rl org, and CDS that has no legal existence?
[13:49] Arria Perreault: I mean, it's a bit like to get married with a ghost
[13:50] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:50] Timo Gufler: good point, Arria
[13:51] Kaseido Quandry: I don't see a problem with its enforceablity - what the CDS is was clear to both parties, and would be to a judge
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: till death do us part
[13:51] Jamie Palisades smiles. Arria, what's the enforceability of any CDS law in SL?
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I'm the police
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I AM THE LAW !
[13:52] Arria Perreault: may I remind you that there was an attempt to ban our Chancellor from any office
[13:52] Arria Perreault: for LL, CDS doesnt exist
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: no there wasn't
[13:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which chancellor ?
[13:53] Rose Springvale: folks lets stay on topic
[13:53] Jamie Palisades: Sonja. and an attempt to throw out your LRA, Arria
[13:53] Pip Torok: yes there was, Tor
[13:53] Kaseido Quandry: are you claiming the CDS has no real existence, Arria?
[13:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which chancellor ?
[13:53] Kaseido Quandry: I've *said* you're a roleplay fantasy, but really...
[13:53] Arria Perreault: no legal existence
[13:53] Rose Springvale: i'm a real person
[13:53] Timo Gufler: no existence in rl
[13:53] Rose Springvale: so is kas, stui
[13:53] Rose Springvale: jamie
[13:53] Rose Springvale: etc
[13:53] Rose Springvale: WE are the cds
[13:53] Arria Perreault: if I make a contract, I have to make it with someone who is able to make it
[13:54] Rose Springvale: legally, a joing venture
[13:54] Rose Springvale: our chancellor is the elected representative to make contracts
[13:54] Rose Springvale: thats the terms of our deal
[13:54] Rose Springvale: as citizens in cds
[13:54] Rose Springvale: joint*
[13:54] Timo Gufler: how about we Europeans?
[13:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well are we going to meet in a railway carriage on the french german border ?
[13:54] Rose Springvale: same thing
[13:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll bring a bic
[13:54] Jamie Palisades smiles, rolls eyes, raises hand.
[13:55] Rose Springvale: sorry, you are leading this
[13:55] Rose Springvale: go on jamie
[13:55] Jamie Palisades: OK. Tow postsw.
[13:55] Jamie Palisades: ---
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: Here's where I think you guys really are:
1. There was a merger. AA *is* in CDS.
2. But some admin arrangements like EO will not get moved until the one year anniversay, so that revocatioon is feasible, if someone revokes.
3. That deadline is coming up in a few weks.
4. CDS voted in a nonbinding referendum not to break the merger.
5. The CDA RA oc9ud sitll act, under its own terms by some specific vote - but not for much longer.
6. I have no idea whether AA has or will make a decision. CDS should ask AA how the hell that will happen,. in my opinion.
7. The move to breask the merger within CDS, and continued attacks, have created bad feelings - and bad beahvior - in both directionrs that are obviously mnaking you people deeply split, and largely deadlocked. I must say, that disappoints me.
8. Still, here are CDS choices: and I think it's the RA that must act, if anyone acts.
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: ---
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: i THINK you have three options only
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: a. RA votes to end the merger before the deadline.
b. RA does nothing - no vote, and leaves VDI in place as owner, asks them to turn over EO to Sudane.
c. RA creates new nonprofit thingie and tells AA to put itself in THAT one. (This was something Gwyneth said was possible, here, a few months ago, she made some reference to other nonprofits which I guess Beta controls, shrug).
[13:57] Jamie Palisades: Note - you do nothing, we end up with (b), and your choice under CDSS law, supervising the Executive, about the EO consolidation.
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: (I guess you coulod do iut with (b) and leave it with Rose too, but I doubt she wants it, and alsop, I thin the SC hgas not decided whether that would be permanently OK.)
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: ----
[13:58] muhammedyussif Wikinger: permission to speak?
[13:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tinkle or get off the potty
[13:59] Jamie Palisades: i;m done
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie has done it
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he's silenced the RA
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or I'm crashing
[14:00] Jamie Palisades: Not the first time. Muhammad has a question?
[14:00] Rose Springvale: go on muhammed
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Go on MUH !!
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Reading the agreement I am thinking
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: the US non profit regulations seem very complicated
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: but will Linden lab have easier to accept an US non profit organisation
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: compared to an European?
[14:01] Kaseido Quandry: Muh, as of a while back, LL would *only* accept US nonprofits
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: done
[14:01] Jamie Palisades: (i agree with muhammad - canadian rules were much easier, for example - i understand VDI has fully qualified, though, under its law. )
[14:01] Kaseido Quandry: I was advising a South African NGO at the time
[14:01] Arria Perreault: the first one was not a canadian one?
[14:01] Timo Gufler: would you like to set the AA under a Finnish non-profit?
[14:02] Jamie Palisades: Kas, that has not been true for several years AFAik

[Rose Springvale]

[14:02] Kaseido Quandry: ok
[14:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: or swedish as I know best
[14:02] Timo Gufler: exactly Muhammed
[14:02] Jamie Palisades raises hanbd for a further comment when the topic has completed
[14:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: But when we have an US why don't use it
[14:02] Arria Perreault: I though Michel made a canadian rl
[14:03] Arria Perreault: org*
[14:03] Rose Springvale: vdi is fully qualified in the US. all the documents for VDI have been posted for review and several people have done so
[14:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: before or after he tied himself to a moose and rode out of town ?
[14:04] Jamie Palisades: (muhammed: you can; Arria: he did. ) I am afraid that the opponents of AA disagreed with keeping VDI only because they did not like which people run it. It would be like a personal trust decision in Sudane as Treasurer. And that question, about CDS being hostage to ANY one RL person, is a very serious one for CDS.
[14:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thewn it is only the members of the VDI tht is questionable
[14:04] Jamie Palisades: (exactly, you coul dmake its board someone else, if VDI wants to vote itself into something different)
[14:05] Rose Springvale: let me try to pull this back to the topic
[14:05] Jamie Palisades: (but honestly I would not recommend making its board the RA - for several stability reasons.)
[14:05] Kaseido Quandry: yes, but apparently the people most opposed, are also unwilling to disclose their RL identity or become legally responsible
[14:05] Rose Springvale: even if cds wishes to do some other organization, it can't do it in 4 weeks
[14:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I see
[14:05] Rose Springvale: so we need to have an agreement between the organizations on how operations will proceed
[14:05] Arria Perreault: Jamie, many people would like to know the intentions of VDI
[14:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: So change VDI so all can trust it
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: Muhammad, that'd be a good outcome.
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear Mu
[14:06] Rose Springvale: it is now 4 :06
[14:07] Rose Springvale: this will need further discussion
[14:07] Rose Springvale: oops
[14:07] Rose Springvale: 206 slt
[14:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I would think to get something done AP
[14:07] Jamie Palisades: I;d like to know the intentions of Beta Technologies, too, FWIW
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[14:07] Delia Lake: @ Arria, the intentions of VDI?
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: and I'd like an independent audit of our financials
[14:07] Jamie Palisades: BUt that's a great point, ARria. Has anyone directed a question to them?
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: ....and a pony.
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps we can vote in a np called ITO
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I am doing it now
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: Want a concrete suggestion? Have thee of you representing a range of viewpoints on the RA meeting with the VDI board.
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: *three
[14:08] Yekaterina Kalchek: Excellent idea, Jmie
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I am ready to meet the VDI board
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: sent three who are NOT rockthrowers, and have not devoted themselves ot its destructuon, if you want a real converstaion
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ITO - Inertia thru opposition
[14:08] Kaseido Quandry: that it is
[14:08] Arria Perreault: in a public meeting
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: i am not so sure about public meteing
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: transcr4ipted yes
[14:09] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, it is the next step
[14:09] Yekaterina Kalchek: In a minuted meeting with the minutes circulated?
[14:09] Arria Perreault: we can adress our questions
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: but open to infantile behavior, maybe not
[14:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am rather of the opinion that if AP wasn't opposed there'd be no issue
[14:10] Rose Springvale: may i suggest that we table this to next week
[14:10] Arria Perreault: I have questions, Stui
[14:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[14:10] Kaseido Quandry: I'd like to be there - as I'm going to be writing a law journal article addressing some of the questions Arria's raised
[14:10] Rose Springvale: and those of you with queries for VDI write them down
[14:10] Jamie Palisades: really? I thought Pat & Gywn were the Kill AA team supreme shrug. WHy not have the RA send Pip, Arria and Lilith?
[14:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: constructive ones AP ?
[14:10] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:10] Rose Springvale: conflict of interests?
[14:11] Jamie Palisades chuckles. find me someone in here without one
[14:11] Arria Perreault: I have constructive questions, yes
[14:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha well perhaps you can make them concise too
[14:11] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:11] Arria Perreault: it is very important for citizen
[14:11] Rose Springvale: lets see them on the forums, and determine who the best representatives to send to a meeting might be
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP it'd be one of the first time you actually championed citizen involvement
[14:12] Arria Perreault: I have no conflict of interest
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[14:12] Jamie Palisades: i can only ofger my personal obeservtaion that Pip, Arria and Lilith, while they;re all biased in their own ways, all have longstanding records as constructive, polite and acting in good faith, in my view. Pick three others if you want. But send someone , you guys need to TALK
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you visited AA as much as you talk about it
[14:12] Arria Perreault: having an opinion is not a conflict of interest
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you'd perhaps be better qualified to understand it
[14:12] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input jamie
[14:12] Rose Springvale: folks
[14:12] Rose Springvale: we are out of time
[14:12] Arria Perreault: Stui, I have visited AA indetail
[14:12] Yekaterina Kalchek: I feel we should listen to Jamie
[14:12] Rose Springvale: next meeting will be a week from saturday
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps if you weren't putting your toes into the water you'd get wet
[14:13] Rose Springvale: at noon. we will take up the conversation from there
[14:13] Rose Springvale: any announcements befroe we adjourn?
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: rather than splashing in the puddles and splashing the onlookers
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: yes - communications commission meeting, tomorrow at 10am SLT
[14:13] Arria Perreault: I have one announcement
[14:14] Rose Springvale: thanks kas, go on arria
[14:14] Arria Perreault: Primtionnary at 8pm in the Amphitheater
[14:14] Arria Perreault: right to build issue is solved
[14:14] Kaseido Quandry: woot! I'll be there if I can
[14:14] Rose Springvale: are you leadign that Arria?
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: tonight SLT, Arria?
[14:15] Arria Perreault: no, it's too late for me
[14:15] Arria Perreault: Anna ad Bag will do it
[14:15] Pip Torok: and for me too
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: (6 hours from now, i mean)
[14:15] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[14:15] Arria Perreault: I do only the EU time session (next week)
[14:15] Rose Springvale: othre announcements?
[14:15] Pip Torok: I'll see you on my dreams! ....
[14:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I announce that I am still very amusing
[14:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and sometimes I have wit
[14:16] Rosie Gray laughs
[14:16] Rose Springvale: I think jayme mistwalkers writing group is at 6 pm
[14:16] Rose Springvale: tonight
[14:16] Naftali Torok: GOODEVENING ALL
[14:16] Naftali Torok: oeps
[14:17] Naftali Torok: sorry
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: hi naf
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when I'm engaged and on my point I'm sometimes even clever
[14:17] Pip Torok: evening naf!
[14:17] Kaseido Quandry: hi naftali!
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ask Tali
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: hi naf
[14:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Naf
[14:17] Naftali Torok: waves at everybody
[14:17] Rose Springvale: hi naf
[14:17] Naftali Torok: still rezzing
[14:17] Rose Springvale: nothing on the ball?
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tali has come here with her feather duster to clean away all the dust
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: And Rosie is selling some nice crowns and stuff in NFS.
[14:17] Pip Torok waves back
[14:18] Yekaterina Kalchek: Good evening Naf
[14:18] Arria Perreault: many people want to make a soccer turnament
[14:18] Arria Perreault: need some help
[14:18] Yekaterina Kalchek: what tournament?
[14:19] Yekaterina Kalchek: ((Just kidding! Cant escape it even here))
[14:19] Arria Perreault: we can have make teams
[14:19] Kaseido Quandry *knows* Stui's got a vuvuzela somewhere....
[14:19] Arria Perreault: I don't have the keys of the soccer stadion under the NFS Platz
[14:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Kas Rosy has seen where
[14:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: she sneaked in
[14:20] Kaseido Quandry gigglesnorts
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: it is hard to get down there.
[14:20] Rose Springvale: smiles. i can put a tp back there
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: i went through a hole in the wall
[14:20] Arria Perreault: great
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Rosy is good at TP'n
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[14:20] Rose Springvale: just let me know when you need it
[14:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:20] Rose Springvale: okay we are well over our time limit
[14:20] Rose Springvale: any other concerns befoer we adjourn?
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm concerned
[14:21] Rose Springvale: smiles, you concern me too
[14:21] Rose Springvale: but that's now what i mean
[14:21] Rose Springvale: not
[14:21] Rose Springvale: *
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'm concerned about the poor merchants
[14:21] Rose Springvale: set your commission times
[14:22] Rose Springvale: okay, seeing no other concerns, all in favor of adjourning say aye please
[14:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye!
[14:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:22] Pip Torok: aye
[14:22] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they don't get commerce commission time then the RA might as well employ professional shoplifters
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[14:23] Rose Springvale: next meeting we will take up the operating agreement again, and possibly have our first commission report back
[14:23] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your patience and service
[14:23] Pip Torok: bye all
[14:23] Jamie Palisades: Nice to see you all. Yikes, next time i check the agenda first before visiting
[14:23] Rose Springvale: taking the record