Transcript from Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board

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Rose Springvale
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Transcript from Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board

Post by Rose Springvale »

[11:56] Rose Springvale: i've put a draft of some q & a regarding VDI in the notecard giver
[11:56] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants some light reading
[12:00] Rose Springvale: very laggy today
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: yes absolutely
[12:00] Rose Springvale: have a seat Micael :)
[12:00] Rose Springvale: let me see if i can locate Delia
[12:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: salamo'aleikom - hi everybody
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: hi muhammed
[12:01] Micael Khandr: alekom sallam
[12:01] Rose Springvale: hello everyone. Delia is on her way, trying to actually rez.
[12:01] Callipygian Christensen: Hi everyone..excuse me while I relog and try to uncloud myself
[12:02] Rose Springvale: My time got away from me this week, so the FAQ i had hoped to do i just finished a bit ago... I'd like to recognize that Arria volunteered to read them for me for clarity, but has not had that opportunity yet. A draft is in the notecard givver if you'd like to see the start
[12:02] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:02] Rose Springvale: let me also remind you all that all our meetings, this one included, are recorded and transcripted on the CDS forums
[12:03] Rose Springvale: i'd like to welcome you all here. and look forward to your questions.
[12:04] Rose Springvale: This was intended to be an opportunity for the CDS representative assembly to clarify the relationship of VDI, the owner of the AA sims, with CDS. But not a voting meeting.
[12:04] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia!
[12:05] Micael Khandr: Let's plan to e3nd at 1 pm
[12:05] Micael Khandr: end
[12:05] Micael Khandr: so everyone knows the schedule
[12:05] Delia Lake: hi everyone. sorry for being late. i just finished giving a rl webinar
[12:05] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:05] Rose Springvale: of course there will be people around longer if there is a need. Hi delia
[12:06] Rose Springvale: delia, there is a notecard with basic info in the notecard giver on the table
[12:06] Micael Khandr: Great--I will need to leave for RL at 1 p.m.
[12:06] Rose Springvale: thanks for taking the time to be here.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: So, shall we start with questions from anyone here?
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Let me introduce Micael .. who is the Executive Director of VDI
[12:06] Rose Springvale: and Delia who is the newly elected treasurer.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: I think I know almost everyone.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: :)
[12:07] Rose Springvale: So questions from the RA members first please?
[12:07] Timo Gufler raises hand
[12:07] Micael Khandr: Timo
[12:07] Rose Springvale: or anything you'd like repsonse to. Thanks. Timo?
[12:07] Timo Gufler: What is role of the VDI board? What does it decide?
[12:07] Rose Springvale: Micael, do you want to take that?
[12:07] Micael Khandr: The notecard summarizes that Timo.
[12:08] Micael Khandr: But in general, it is to promote the development of virtual democracy.
[12:08] Micael Khandr: It can be here in SL, or in other virtual worlds
[12:08] Timo Gufler: How is the VDI board elected?
[12:08] Delia Lake: the board runs the rl company VDI
[12:09] Rose Springvale: for now, Timo, the board consists of the three of us. The merger agreement provides that CDS can appoint more members. That is up to CDS to determing
[12:09] Micael Khandr: We bgan with the us, and we haven't gotten to the place f elections yet for the other members of the board
[12:10] Rose Springvale: Like many non profit boards, mostly volunteers are needed
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and to volunteer, all you need to do is talk to us
[12:10] Timo Gufler: I suppose only those, who are citizens of United States can belong to the board
[12:10] Rose Springvale: no
[12:10] Rose Springvale: anyone anywhere can be on the board
[12:10] Micael Khandr: Texas covers the whole world, right Rose? :)
[12:10] Delia Lake: who else will join the board will depend to some degree on the merger finalization
[12:11] Rose Springvale: but we will need real life identities .. that's the catch.
[12:11] Micael Khandr: because it is a RL organization
[12:11] Rose Springvale: we have real life reporting requirements. The three of us have volunteered in our real life capacities
[12:11] Delia Lake: there are many nonprofits in rl that have people from different countries on their boards
[12:12] Micael Khandr: and the development of this non-profit evolved out of the original non-profit control of AA
[12:13] Timo Gufler: how can RA enforce it's decisions to the VDI?
[12:13] Micael Khandr: I'm interested in this because of my interest in how to teach and experience democracy in real life through SL
[12:13] Rose Springvale: actually that's the easy part Timo
[12:13] Timo Gufler: is it?
[12:13] Rose Springvale: VDI would not have any hand in the day to day operations of the sims
[12:14] Rose Springvale: if VDI remains the estate owner, then there would be a contract between VDI and CDS to do that
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I would like to know the exact role of VDI in CDS? Is this role restricted to the role of Estate owner?
[12:14] Rose Springvale: so VDI doesn't even really need to know the RA decisions...
[12:14] Rose Springvale: yes Arria, thanks.
[12:14] Delia Lake: VDI is legally the estate owner of the 6 AA sims
[12:15] Timo Gufler: who would the EO be in practice? one of the members of the VDI board?
[12:15] Rose Springvale: VDI is ONLY the estate owner
[12:15] Rose Springvale: preferably the named avatar would be Rudeen
[12:15] Timo Gufler: who would control Rudeen?
[12:15] Rose Springvale: but Linden Labs will only accept a named avata attached to a credit card.
[12:15] Rose Springvale: same as always timo
[12:16] Rose Springvale: or it would be whoever else CDS would name, who can qualify
[12:16] Timo Gufler: so, does RA decide the EO?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: VDI is the EO
[12:16] Timo Gufler: what does that mean?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: RA can decide the named avatar, but do be aware that there are most likely fees associated with changes in the avatar
[12:16] Delia Lake: LL makes a distinction with 2 kinds of EO's
[12:17] Delia Lake: 1 is a single person who owns a private sim
[12:17] Delia Lake: the 5 original CDS sims are single person owner private sims
[12:17] Delia Lake: the EO is the owner of those sims
[12:17] Delia Lake: the 2nd kind is nonprofit corporation
[12:18] Delia Lake: in this kind of nonprofit ownership
[12:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Are there shareholders that elect the board?
[12:18] Kaseido Quandry: hey Trebor
[12:18] Rose Springvale: no, there are no shareholers muhammed, it is a public charity
[12:18] Delia Lake: the corporation is the owner and the EO is a representative of the corporation but not the sim owner
[12:18] Arria Perreault: The Estate Owner Act sais: "The EO shall be a citizen of a sim within the CDS and shall be appointed by a majority vote of the SC. An EO may serve for one sim or multiple sims."
[12:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[12:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Our law don't take in account the second type of EO
[12:19] Rose Springvale: that's why the SC is reviewing that
[12:19] Arria Perreault: VDI cannot be a citizen
[12:19] Arria Perreault: but the RA has to vote the amendment of this law
[12:19] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: i would think so, yes Arria
[12:20] Delia Lake: LL contracts take precedent over CDS law regarding sim ownership. sim ownership is by contract with LL
[12:20] Timo Gufler: since the VDI is the EO, in other words, it would have power to make a decision to sell the sims, right?
[12:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: What is the personal risk to be a boardmember?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: for latecomers, there is a notecard in the cds box ont he table.
[12:21] Micael Khandr: I think the EO always has the right to sell the sims--
[12:21] Delia Lake: for instance, the RA or for that matter a binding referendum vot e of the CDS citizenry could not replace the EO of CN, making say Timo the EO instead of Rudeen
[12:21] Micael Khandr: Right now, Sudane could sell the CDS sims
[12:21] Rose Springvale: Timo, All actions of the corporation are governed by the board. If VDI contracted with CDS, they would not have the legal power to make changes without taking to the whole board
[12:22] Rose Springvale: and then would be subject to liability if they did
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: where is the lawyer FOR CDS
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why are we here with no laywyer of our own
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have money to pay one.
[12:22] Rose Springvale: there is no lawyer here for anyone, this is an information meeting.
[12:22] Delia Lake: the EO of a private sim has the right to sell. but the EO of a sim granted nonprofit status is not the sim owner according to LL policy
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are a lawyer
[12:22] Rose Springvale: i don't represent anyone here
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we don't have our own, i think that is unethical of you
[12:22] Micael Khandr: And I'm a teacher
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Is EO executive officer?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: we are not in litigation Cleo, there isn't an ethical issue here
[12:23] Rose Springvale: estate owner
[12:23] Micael Khandr: estate owner
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yah well i think there is rose
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Tu
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a big one .. many of them
[12:23] Arria Perreault: can the SC decide to change the EO of the old sims and to give them to VDI?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: muhammed, you asked about lega responsibilies of the board
[12:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:23] Rose Springvale: that's a pretty big topic, let me get you some independent information on that and post links if i may
[12:24] Delia Lake: no, the SC cannot do that dispite what the CDS law says
[12:24] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[12:24] Rose Springvale: basic duty of care, and just shy of fiduciary
[12:24] Delia Lake: Sudane is the legal owner of the CDS sims. they can ONLY be transfered by her
[12:25] Rose Springvale: and they can only be transferred to someone who accepts them
[12:25] Timo Gufler: who would be the contracting parties in the contract between the VDI and the CDS? people in the CDS come and go... should we renew the control after each term?
[12:25] Timo Gufler: *contract
[12:25] Rose Springvale: not necessary Timo
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: As a citizen i call that CDS get a lawyer to represent it in this merger!! its an outrage and i think very unethical of rose not to demand it.
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can ispeak to you rBAR association abou it rose
[12:25] Rose Springvale: the Contract goes between the legal representative of CDS and the Executive director of VDI
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: who o do i call
[12:26] Rose Springvale: that would be Sonja and Micael
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: texas bar
[12:26] Micael Khandr: Cleo--this is an information meeting only
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: about your doing this without suggesting we get a rep
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no the merger itself
[12:26] Rose Springvale: you are more than welcome to Cleo.
[12:26] Timo Gufler: so, let's say, that Arria was the chancellor, would she be the contractor from the CDS side?
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: The texas BAR association??
[12:26] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: CLEO, the merger was signed a year ago - and Jamie, a lawyer, represented CDS
[12:26] Rose Springvale: but Timo
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Jamie is Roses puppet
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he hardly represents CDS
[12:27] Rose Springvale: as in any contract, it will go on unless it terminates or is changed by the parties ... changes in personel won't affect it
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we need an unbiased lawyer to represent our rights as CDS citizens
[12:27] Pip Torok: we didnt merge 12 months ago, Kas ....
[12:27] Rose Springvale: folks
[12:27] Pip Torok: it was a _trial_
[12:27] Rose Springvale: can we focus on the topic please?
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Rose, what more control do you need, hun?
[12:27] Kaseido Quandry: no, it was a binding contract with a termination option, Pip
[12:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Are there majority decisions in the board?
[12:28] Micael Khandr: This is an imformation session regarding VDI
[12:28] Rose Springvale: are there more questions about the non profit?
[12:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes ask a judge to rule on viirtual land
[12:28] Pip Torok: exactly .... an option .... remember that
[12:28] Rose Springvale: pip, do you have a question?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: as a member of both projects?
[12:28] Pip Torok: to Kas and its answered
[12:29] Pip Torok: remind me of the projects ...
[12:29] Rose Springvale: AA and CDS
[12:29] Pip Torok: ah
[12:29] Kaseido Quandry wishes we could get back to Timo's and muhammad's excellent and constructive questions
[12:29] Rose Springvale: sees arria typing, wonders if it is lag ...
[12:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Being a non-profit where do the proceeds from the day to day operations go, back into the SIMS?
[12:29] Timo Gufler raises his hand again
[12:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: antonius welcome
[12:30] Arria Perreault: I will ask a frank question, the question that everyone has. it was told several times that a non-profit is a good solution for the role of EO and that it solves several issues. Now it is clear that many people don't want to see VDI plays this role for the whole CDS. My question is: would VDI accept to own the old CDS sims if any decision is made either in the RA or in the SC?
[12:30] Pip Torok: yes ... will a designated member of the RA have a permanent place on the VDI board?
[12:30] Pip Torok: and if noty, why not?
[12:30] Rose Springvale: thanks Trebor. All the proceeds are collected by CDS. the bills are paid by CDS. there is no provision for any money to come back to VDI
[12:30] Rose Springvale: Arria, thanks. let me make sure i've got Trebor's question answered
[12:31] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:31] Rose Springvale: Did i answer you Trebor?
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe so, thank you
[12:31] Rose Springvale: good. Delia, are you addressing Arria's q?
[12:31] Delia Lake: Arria, the ownership of the CDS sims can only change if Sudane wants to change them. The RA and or the SC cannot demand that the CDS sims change ownership
[12:31] muhammedyussif Wikinger: If 5 more volotaires entered the board will the make a majority?
[12:32] Pip Torok: Will you answer my question Rose? yes ... will a designated member of the RA have a permanent place on the VDI board? One there _as of right_?
[12:32] Micael Khandr: a majority of 8?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: As to accepting the CDS sims... that's a question that would be up to the RA, and the board.
[12:32] Rose Springvale: as soon as we have answered Arrias
[12:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if 5 new can take over the present 3 :-)?
[12:33] Rose Springvale: since the board of VDI is made up of people from these projects, i can't imagine a case where it would be turned down... but that's something we can't decide
[12:33] Pip Torok: why not?
[12:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why on earth would CDS want to give our sims to a non profit board in texas.. why?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: if you are asking if a simple majority of the RA could effectuate a transfer, the answer would be no.
[12:34] Timo Gufler: What if Arria was the contracting part from the CDS and the VDI broke the contract... what could she do? I guess, it would be very difficult for her to sue the VDI in the US...
[12:34] Rose Springvale: Pip, the VDI board is a real life board of individuals who commit to three year terms. RA terms are six months. not sure how that would work
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: not nearly as hard as for us to sue Sudane, Timo.
[12:35] Rose Springvale: Timo
[12:35] Kaseido Quandry: whoever she may be, whereever she may be
[12:35] Rose Springvale: not sure why we'd go to all this trouble to 'break" the deal. but lets follow your logic
[12:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: A chilenian dictator was sued fron Spain
[12:35] Pip Torok: The RA would find some way ... it IS in CDS' interest for them to find a way
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how many people can be on the board, what is the limit??
[12:35] Micael Khandr: We have 25 minutes left in the formal information session btw
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the maximum
[12:35] Arria Perreault: and can the SC decides this transfer?
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[12:36] Delia Lake: the SC cannot decide this transfer
[12:36] Pip Torok: why not, Delia?
[12:36] Delia Lake: only Sudane can make a transfer of the CDS sims. ONLY Sudane
[12:36] Pip Torok: ah
[12:36] Kaseido Quandry: because the SC has no legal status as owenr of the sims
[12:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so VDI controls the RA via the LRA and the SC via delia.. and ..
[12:37] Delia Lake: LL policy recognizes only 1 single owner of private sims
[12:37] Kaseido Quandry: Sudane owns them, Sudane only can sell them
[12:37] Rose Springvale: i think that kind of action would go like this... RA votes... chancellor vetos
[12:37] Solomon Mosely: doesnt the VDi board take it's lead from the cds RA or cds exec?
[12:37] Delia Lake: for the CDS sims that is Sudane. ONLY Sudane
[12:37] Rose Springvale: and let me just say... on our behalf .. the three of us
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: cindy is in AA.. so no one in CDS has any control of our sims
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: So techniclly Sudane is the owner of the SIMS and if the merger happens ownership would be transferred to the nonprofit VDI?
[12:37] Timo Gufler: Sudane has been a trustworthy lady
[12:37] Rose Springvale: no trebor
[12:37] Delia Lake: she certainly has, Timo
[12:38] Pip Torok: (and long has it been so)
[12:38] Rose Springvale: sudane owns the five original sims
[12:38] Rose Springvale: vdi owns the 6 aa sims
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: oooh ok
[12:38] Rose Springvale: after the merger, it stays that way, unless CDS creates it's own non profit
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: tu for the clarification
[12:38] Rose Springvale: which would look very much like VDI
[12:38] Delia Lake: and I have no reason to believe that Sudane would be anything other than responsble as she has been in the past
[12:38] Pip Torok: UNLESS!!!!! .....
[12:38] Rose Springvale: The merger agreement also provides that CDS and the chancellor would serve on the board.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: pip?
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: still we should take it out of one set of hands anyway
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: she could get hit by a bus
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Why would the CDS have to start their own non profit. Why not become a part of VDI?
[12:39] Pip Torok: no way, sol
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: /
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: yesss way
[12:39] Rose Springvale: Trebor, its just an option
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: Yopurs?
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: Yopurs ؟
[12:39] Arria Perreault: what happens in expansion project? will the SC decide who is the estate owner for each new sim?
[12:39] Rose Springvale: they can't become part of vdi
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry: We have full faith in our anonymous overlords
[12:39] Pip Torok: Trebor ... would you give your heritage away?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that's a good question ARria, but i think that is RA responsibility
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: heritage?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: based on the purpose of the sim i think
[12:40] Pip Torok: speak for yourself KAS-come-lately
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: lol
[12:40] Arria Perreault: le EO Act sayis it is the SC
[12:40] Kaseido Quandry laughs. "ooo, burn!"
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Pip no I wouldnt but at the same time i would want to do what's best to grow and prosper as a community.
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: yes, pip grew up here in these hills
[12:40] Rose Springvale: order please
[12:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: touche rose you won , you took over CDS by your lawschool tricks, took you years.. but .. whooo you should be so proud of yourself
[12:40] Pip Torok: i undertand, trebor
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria, that act should be something we look at i think.
[12:41] Arria Perreault: if I read our law, VDI cannot be an EO now
[12:41] Micael Khandr: in CDS?
[12:41] Rose Springvale: the whole EO act is a bit out of date... we've come a long way as CDS since that was drafted
[12:41] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:41] Arria Perreault: it is the current law
[12:41] Pip Torok: why is it outofdate? ...
[12:41] Rose Springvale: so is the merger agreement
[12:42] Arria Perreault: Quote: 1). The EO shall be a citizen of a sim within the CDS and shall be appointed by a majority vote of the SC. An EO may serve for one sim or multiple sims.
[12:42] Solomon Mosely: so, to sum up: VDI does not and can not "take over" the cds sims

Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript from Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board

Post by Rose Springvale »

[12:42] Rose Springvale: so we have a discrepancy in our laws
[12:42] Micael Khandr: So that would need to change if the desire was to have a non-profit as EO
[12:42] Delia Lake: our CDS law is out of compliance with LL policy. LL policy takes precedence over CDS law as LL owns SL
[12:42] Rose Springvale: right solomon. nor would it want to
[12:42] Pip Torok: who says its outofdate never say why
[12:42] Rose Springvale: delia just did pip
[12:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS NEEDS ITS OWN LAWYER>> why wouldnt she want you to have one!!!!! think people.
[12:42] Pip Torok: ?
[12:42] Timo Gufler: who knows, what the board wants?
[12:42] Kaseido Quandry faceplams
[12:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this is a very unfair fight and you know it rose.
[12:42] Rose Springvale: sorry timo... can you be more specific? what board?
[12:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you should be so so ashamed of yourself rose.
[12:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how sad
[12:43] Micael Khandr: Please be civil at this meeting, Cleo.
[12:43] Delia Lake: Pip, i have a question for you. you said that you didn't want to give up your/our heritage. could you say more about what you mean by that?
[12:43] Timo Gufler: who knows, what the VDI board would like to do... what it want depends on, who sit on the board...
[12:44] Solomon Mosely looks for the "drop chair through floor" button
[12:44] Rose Springvale: would you like to join us timo?
[12:44] Rose Springvale: right now
[12:44] Timo Gufler: I can't answer that question right now
[12:44] Rose Springvale: VDI exists only because the conversations on the CDS forum caused the former non profit to 'disown" AA
[12:44] Rose Springvale: we had to choose whether to let it die, or create a new nonprofit
[12:45] Rose Springvale: we were well into negotiations with CDS
[12:45] Rose Springvale: and felt that to let it die wasn't fair to anyone
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: doesn't merger agreement state that the VDI board takes it's orders from the cds leadership?
[12:45] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you 'Draft Q & A, VDI' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[12:45] Delia Lake: and what the VDI board does or does not do is limited by the nonprofit charter (rl) granted to the company
[12:45] Delia Lake: it cannot just go out and do "anything"
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: right....
[12:46] Rose Springvale: actually solomon, the merger agreement assumed CDS would create a non profit
[12:46] Timo Gufler: really?
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: is everyone actually reading the agreement and the VDI bylaws now?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: oh yea, how did we miss that?
[12:46] Timo Gufler: we are not lawyers...
[12:47] Solomon Mosely: no, but most of us speak english
[12:47] Rose Springvale: vdi is willing to accomodate and contract with cds... because its an expensive and tedious process
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Can ui have a copy of the VDI bylaws please
[12:47] Delia Lake: from the VDI articles of incorporation...
[12:47] Delia Lake: The Corporation is organized exclusively for cultural and educational purposes as defined in Section 501(c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code. These activities will include, but not be limited to, creating democratic communities in virtual worlds, exploring historical democratic societies and teaching democratic structures through information and educationa presentations and discussions, and the applying democratic principles to governance of virtual communities. The corporation may engage in all such activities that further these purposes.
[12:47] Solomon Mosely: as does the text ofthe documents
[12:47] Rose Springvale: trebor, they are posted, let me send you the link
[12:47] Arria Perreault: What is the impact of the purpouse of VDI? I know it cannot be changed. It was not discussed in the community. Will some activities like commerce be restricted?
[12:47] Rose Springvale: good question Arria
[12:48] Rose Springvale: The project that was submitted and approved by both LL and the IRS was the creation of democratic communities in virtual worlds
[12:48] Arria Perreault: IRS?
[12:48] Rose Springvale: communities include commerce, culture, residences, streets.. ets.
[12:48] Micael Khandr: Tax people
[12:48] Rose Springvale: IRS= Internal Revenu Service... the ones who decide on our charity status
[12:48] Rose Springvale: One thing no one has touched on is the potential to apply for outside grants
[12:49] Pip Torok: assume d? ... who assumed the CDS wd become nonprofit?
[12:49] Rose Springvale: which is a great benefit that a non profit has over just a group of people.
[12:49] Rose Springvale: there are many sources of funding that we can explore
[12:49] Delia Lake: the 5 original CDS sims do not have to become nonprofit
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: I was wondering about that Rose. By becoming a non profit corporation it can open many RL doors.
[12:50] Pip Torok: see Arria's Forum post about how derisory the nonprofit tier difference wd be
[12:50] Delia Lake: it can and does, Trebor
[12:50] Rose Springvale: Pip, here is the language from the merger agreement; . A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Delia that's where I'm having a little trouble understanding.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: we are too Trebor :(
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Why 2 non-profits?
[12:51] Rose Springvale: no need for two
[12:51] Pip Torok: nonprofit means LOSS of control , a meaningless democracy, for the price of the tier-difference
[12:51] Arria Perreault: yes, money is not a sufficient reason: some of our sims are not at normal price
[12:51] Delia Lake: loss of what control, Pip?
[12:51] Solomon Mosely: where do you get this pip?
[12:51] Pip Torok: fro Arria's Forum post
[12:51] Rose Springvale: AA is an educational project
[12:51] Rose Springvale: it is not just about money
[12:51] Yekaterina Kalchek: I fail to see any logic in that remark Pip
[12:51] Yekaterina Kalchek: ولا أستطيع أن أرى أي منطق في هذا التصريح النواة
[12:51] Micael Khandr: But CDS is already "controlled" by a single EO--the idea that the democracy is completely in charge is an illusion in SL
[12:52] Yekaterina Kalchek: Ooops sorry
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: *thank you* Micael
[12:52] Arria Perreault: My opinion is the following: a good strategy would be to have several EO in CDS. It will decrease the risks.
[12:52] Delia Lake: Pip, what control do you have now that you believe you could potentially loose?
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point Michel
[12:52] Pip Torok: then you kick the whole basis of what we do here, micael
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, that's a good point
[12:52] Arria Perreault: we will have two EO and why not a third one
[12:52] Timo Gufler: Interesting point, yes, Arria...
[12:52] Carolyn Saarinen: Blame LL for that Pip
[12:53] Micael Khandr: I'm not "kicking" anyone--just stating the reality
[12:53] Pip Torok: the power that the Constitution gives us, Delia
[12:53] Rose Springvale: i think that is what the original lawy intended Arria
[12:53] Arria Perreault: yes, exactly, Rose
[12:53] Rose Springvale: that it wouldn't all be on one person.
[12:53] Pip Torok: Reality? thats machtPolitik Micael ...
[12:53] Carolyn Saarinen: If CDS is going to have multiple EOs the only way for that to work is for CDS to form or join a non-profit. LL wnot recognise it any other way.
[12:54] Pip Torok: nonsense Caro
[12:54] Delia Lake: the CDS constitution governs us as a community of choice--which is what the CDS is. the CDS Constitution is not binding on LL
[12:54] Carolyn Saarinen: Pip, Delia explained the two types of EO acceptable to LL earlier
[12:54] Timo Gufler: I will leave now. Thanks for the meeting.
[12:54] Timo Gufler: bye
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: But Pip could buy his own sim, join it to the CDS and continue as owner of it only - no problem
[12:54] Rose Springvale: we are all speculating now. Thank you for coming Timo
[12:54] Micael Khandr: YW, Timo
[12:54] Yekaterina Kalchek: Bye Timo
[12:55] Delia Lake: at this time those are the only EO categories that LL recognizes
[12:55] Arria Perreault: EO have an administrative role only. The law says also that they cannot have an other position in CDS
[12:55] Arria Perreault: bye Timo
[12:55] Micael Khandr: we have about 5 minutes of the formal meeting time left, btw
[12:55] Pip Torok: no ... its an interface ... from LL's side one owner pays tier for the sims ... from CDS side,tier is paid to a Treasurer who happens to be LL's EO
[12:55] Arria Perreault: I agree we have to review this law
[12:55] Solomon Mosely: must run. rose, thank you for doing this to put an end to the flod of mis-information and fer mongering. i hope this clears things up for everyone and we can all move forward
[12:55] Rose Springvale: thank you for coming solomon
[12:56] Micael Khandr: TY, Sol
[12:56] Pip Torok: Sol ... I'm against the _causes_ of fear
[12:56] Solomon Mosely: oh, and my man craig is performing at sl7b at 1 :) hope you can all make itto the main stage :)
[12:56] Arria Perreault: a last question: what are the incomes of VDI and how are the finances of VDI manages? Are the financial informations publi?
[12:56] Solomon Mosely: plug!
[12:56] Delia Lake: NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act is posted on the SC discussion section of the Forum. this weekend I will post a set of LL policy links as well
[12:56] Rose Springvale: yes Arria. VDI has only one asset, the AA estates
[12:56] Yekaterina Kalchek: Thank you Delia
[12:57] Rose Springvale: All the tier for the AA estates goes to Rudeen
[12:57] Rose Springvale: All the bills also go to rudeen
[12:57] Rose Springvale: all VDI information is public, and available for anyone to see
[12:57] Pip Torok: "until2 such time when a majority hands over the rest to VDI ... a habndover that will be one-way
[12:57] Rose Springvale: If we get grants, those will be subject to scrutiny as well
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: (and *must* be, by state and federeal law)
[12:57] Delia Lake: hands over what, Pip?
[12:58] Rose Springvale: I'd like to say somethign if i may
[12:58] Pip Torok: the nonprofit sims
[12:58] Rose Springvale: a year ago, all the AA sims were "mine"
[12:58] Pip Torok: no ... the non-nonprofit sims
[12:58] Rose Springvale: that include the value of the land, the value of the buidings.
[12:58] Rose Springvale: 4 of those sims were my personal assets that i transfered directly to AA
[12:59] Rose Springvale: then i transfered ALL 6 of the sims to VDI
[12:59] Rose Springvale: it was a gift
[12:59] Rose Springvale: that gift was intended to be handed to CDS
[12:59] Rose Springvale: i get nothing out of it at all
[12:59] Kaseido Quandry: what was the approximate dollar value of your own money, Rose?
[12:59] Rose Springvale: about 10000 Usd
[13:00] Rose Springvale: i have no desire to run this project
[13:00] Rose Springvale: i have no desire to run AA
[13:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: That's substantial.
[13:00] Rose Springvale: but i do wish to see the projects continue
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that's more than I earn in a year
[13:00] Rose Springvale: so all this takeover talk is silly
[13:00] Pip Torok: as we have no desire to see the CDS-portions become nonprofit .... but we have no guarantee ...
[13:00] Rose Springvale: if i wanted to be in charge, why bother with mergers?
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: So your reasoning to do what you did was to see the concept of the CDS grow?
[13:01] Rose Springvale: I have served CDS for many years now, and i am personally hurt that so many of you are willing to attribute bad motives to me
[13:01] Pip Torok: with respect Rose, it does not prove it
[13:01] Delia Lake: to see the concept of building workable virtual democracy grow
[13:01] Carolyn Saarinen whispers: fucking hell
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: nor do your empty and ignorant accusations, Pip.
[13:01] Micael Khandr: Thank you for sharing this info, Rose. I am going to close the formal information meeting now
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: that street runs both ways.
[13:01] Rose Springvale: thanks Micael.
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: thank you Micael
[13:02] Micael Khandr: Those who can stay longer, are welcome to do so.

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