Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010

[Rose Springvale]

[9:02] Rose Springvale: Good morning everyone. Let me remind you all that all CDS meetings are recorded and transcripted, so if you speek you consent to such is presumed
[9:03] Ranma Tardis: good morning
[9:03] Rose Springvale: The first 15 minutes of our meeting are reserved to hear the concerns of citizens. Glad to see some of you here today, Anyone have somethign they want to say?
[9:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:04] Rose Springvale: come on Ranma! i know you do!
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: well not sure how to say it
[9:04] Rose Springvale: its just us, conversationally is fine
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: well I am now not a citizen of the CDS
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn knows she owes some public apologies but won't waste the RA's time with them and prefers to listen to Ranma instead.
[9:05] Rose Springvale: i believe you are welcome to speak, but if you don't feel comfortable, that's fine
[9:05] Ranma Tardis: we need to have an understanding of each others views
[9:06] Rose Springvale: that's pretty broad...
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quite...
[9:06] Ranma Tardis: true
[9:07] Ranma Tardis: so now what? AA has left the CDS
[9:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:08] Rose Springvale: we move forward Ranma. and that's what the RA will be addressing this term, how CDS will move forward. I hope you'll stick around to see
[9:08] Rose Springvale: Jeroma, did you have somethign you want to discuss too? we only get a few minutes
[9:08] Ranma Tardis: am sure, so much to do in rl
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so too... I mean, you have been around for ages, Ranma, you've seen how things have changed over time...
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like to add something
[9:09] Ranma Tardis: yes I sort of liked the Neualtenberg projekt
[9:09] Rose Springvale: smiles.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:10] Rose Springvale: Tor its conversation, you can speak, and i see jeroma typing too, want to make sure we give time to the citizens.. ra has another slot
[9:10] Jeroma Wycliffe: Not really, I'm too mystified by current affairs to have much to add. Some obvious hidden fires I can't sort through.
[9:10] Rose Springvale: i understand Jeroma. Me too.
[9:10] Ranma Tardis: am still a member of Kendra's guild
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would you care to share them, Jeroma?
[9:10] Rose Springvale smiles She's still on my friends list
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[9:11] Lilith Ivory is sad to have met Kendra only once
[9:11] Rose Springvale: Hi Rosie, we are sharing citizens concerns now, so if you have one, jump right in
[9:11] Rose Springvale: (hi Imotali )
[9:11] Rosie Gray: okay thanks
[9:11] Rosie Gray:
[9:11] Rose Springvale: didn't meant to overlook anyone
[9:11] Imotali Antiesse has a question: Will this RA be separated after the demerger ( hi Rose)
[9:12] Rose Springvale: this RA is the RA of CDS, so it is already
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Separated? How so?
[9:12] Jeroma Wycliffe: Gwyn: "hidden fires" meaning underlying motivations that make the merger impossible to some.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: AA is no longer part of CDS
[9:12] Rosie Gray: has some decision been made about de-merging?
[9:12] Ranma Tardis: in physical position?
[9:12] Rosie Gray: oh
[9:12] Rose Springvale: yes, Al Andalus announced its withdrawal on Thursday Rosie
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:13] Rosie Gray nods: I see
[9:13] Rose Springvale: no decisions on phisical location yet Ranma
[9:13] Rose Springvale: lots of strong feelings
[9:13] Ranma Tardis: hopes there will be free transit between the two
[9:13] Rose Springvale: tollls have been discussed
[9:14] Rosie Gray: does that mean that the sims won't be connected?
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: yea
[9:14] Rose Springvale: that decisions hasn't been made yet Rosie.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami:
[9:14] Rose Springvale: by either side, i'll add
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: hopes we remain friends
[9:14] Carolyn Saarinen: Tolls or trolls? One under everybridge?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: hi Caro
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, true — although I hope to ressurect Kas' old proposal ... in due time
[9:14] Carolyn Saarinen: As-saláamu :alái-kum
[9:14] Lilith Ivory hopes that also
[9:14] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Caro
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: Hi Caro
[9:15] Imotali Antiesse walaikumsalam Caro
[9:15] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aleikomosalam
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: lots of tools here in Oklahoma, might even be a troll under the old route 66 bridge
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: tolls
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Trolls and Tolls
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:15] Rose Springvale: perhaps we should have a town hall meeting to discuss the feelings issue that seem to be haunting some of our citizens
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd second that!
[9:15] Rose Springvale: because i dont' think we can address those in a 15 minute concern hour
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:15] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: This is still a very sensitive time so close after the AA decision to de-merge. Tempers or feelings of anger are in some cases still very hot. I hope everyone who is part of CDS and AA can wait a bit before making a final decision to leave CDS or AA themselves.
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Tor!
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: nicely said, Tor!
[9:16] Jeroma Wycliffe: Absolutely
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (welcome, Delia!)
[9:16] Rose Springvale: We are at time and have a few more citizens who've joined us... shall we extend this section of our agenda or move on?
[9:16] Delia Lake: /hello everyone
[9:16] Delia's translator: / Bună ziua tuturor
[9:16] Rose Springvale: if we want to extend, i'll need a motion
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in extending a bit
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.... motion to extend
[9:16] Rose Springvale: how long....
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's say 10 more minutes?
[9:17] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Delia
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: second
[9:17] Rose Springvale: okay. All in favor?
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:17] Ranma Tardis: while there are two governments we can only be truly spilt if we the citizens allow it
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Sudane
[9:17] Sudane Erato: hi
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: hi sudane
[9:17] Rose Springvale: okay, we'll extend to 9 27.
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
[9:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
[9:18] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to speak more
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: nothing says we can not do things toughter
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Anyone care to follow up on Tors comment?
[9:19] Rosie Gray: I'm mainly here to listen
[9:19] Rose Springvale: okay, Soro, anything you want to add?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Nothing to say. Its been said.
[9:20] Imotali Antiesse just curious cat wondering how AA government will be.
[9:20] Rose Springvale: that will be for AA to determine Imo, not the business of CDS now
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just say that there are more forms of unions than merely political ones.
[9:20] Imotali Antiesse: Gracias Rose
[9:20] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear, Gwyn
[9:20] Rose Springvale: yw
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: We seem to be all connected. Like it or not our association with CDS binds us all.
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: we are sort of a family
[9:21] Rose Springvale: this is the CDS ra meeting after all
[9:21] Carolyn Saarinen: No we aren't
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Not any more
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bonds can go beyond words written in paper.
[9:22] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[9:22] Rose Springvale: if not we'll go back to the agenda
[9:23] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your concerns. we will try to schedule a town hall in the next week and hope those of you with confusion or concern will come and discuss the after affects
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[9:23] Pip Torok: hi everyone
[9:23] Rose Springvale: any ideas of a good time for that?
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I am on vacation for two weeks and am free much of the time.
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn says hi to Pip too
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: hi pip
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: hi pip
[9:24] Pip Torok: hi Tor ...
[9:24] Rose Springvale: oh good Tor,so if we need to extend todays discussion perhaps we can do it on Thursday, so those who can't come to Saturday meetings can attend
[9:24] Pip Torok: and Lilith!
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd be fine with that, Rose....
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: uuuuuhhhh
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:25] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Tor notes that he talks too much
[9:25] Rose Springvale: sorry Tor... lets discuss at the end of the meeting ..see what we need
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or have two sessions, one on Thursday, the other on Sunday or so
[9:26] Rose Springvale: well, our sundays seem pretty full these days...
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True hehe
[9:26] Rose Springvale: we can do a town hall on one of the days, thursday or Saturday, whichever the RA meeting doesn't need
[9:26] Rose Springvale: lets go on
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could do it on Saturday if we're finished with the agenda
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[9:26] Rose Springvale: Do we have any additions or amendments to the agenda?
[9:26] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[9:27] Rose Springvale: thinks tor's sure is lagged...
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:27] Rose Springvale: not in re agenda
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a suggestion... create a commission to analyse and study what to do next after the decision to de-merge...
[9:27] Rose Springvale: though i note he's put proposed legislation on the forums, which we may get to, but we can bring that motion in that portion of the agenda
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But... I think that a Town Hall first... would be better
[9:27] You decline Harbor Dive & Tackle from A group member named hjordis Kjeller.
[9:28] Pip Torok agrees
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: listen to citizens first, and only then structure things, and possibly call for a commission
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, well, I have no further suggestions re: agenda
[9:28] Carolyn Saarinen: I thought CDS opinion held that commissions were useless.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: well, that would require yet another commission which have been labeled as ineffective, and since CDS didn't make the decision, think we need to stay focussed on the business that CDS wants to pursue
[9:28] Rose Springvale: but you can propose it when you are ready
[9:29] Pip Torok: did you, Caro?
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely not today, no.
[9:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Onlty from reading the CDs forums Pip
[9:29] Rose Springvale: There were seven day votes outstanding on the creation of the Communications legislation that we adopted, but i don't see where they were exercised
[9:29] Rose Springvale: So that legislation is now law.
[9:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Ask Arria
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: let me try to find the link rose
[9:29] Rose Springvale: sure pat, for the record, but i dont' think it changes the result
[9:30] Rose Springvale: while you are looking, lets move to commission reports.Elections...Gwyn?
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: indeed rose. for the record:
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2972
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure... I'll be quick, so to give others more time.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Election commission managed to meet twice so far,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, uh, unlike some comments that commissions are useless,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: i should rather report the contrary!
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in fact,
[9:31] Rose Springvale: (RA, please put those votes in the RA discussion thread in the future.)
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the second meeting,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we managed to deal pretty much with all points on the original agenda
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I was expecting eprsonally to hold more meetings!)
[9:31] Rose Springvale applauds
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would really like to thank everybody who has attended this commission so far.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You guys were wonderful.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we're in a position to make some good suggestions for the RA to adopt as legislation.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not merely vague hints or so... there are concrete ideas, good ones
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next meeting will really be a review of what has been suggested
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to have a document ready for everybody to comment and help to write
[9:33] Rose Springvale: and then you will be ready for presentation to the RA?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so, yes.
[9:33] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[9:33] Rose Springvale: do you have the next meeting scheduled?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there will be just one more meeting, and then we can rpesent the suggestions to teh RA
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet! hehe — probably next Sunday (not tomorrow!)
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn is open to suggestions
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt: good job Gwyn
[9:34] Rose Springvale: that sounds fine.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not my credit — please thank the people who attended, Tor
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And my 5 mins are pretty much over.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all again
[9:34] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[9:34] Rose Springvale: Commerce... Lilith?
[9:35] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: we had our first meeting last saturday
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: and have been able to collect a lot of good ideas already
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: still have to sort them hehe
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m thinking about holding the next meeeting on tuesday ...maybe 6pm
[9:36] Rose Springvale: Do you find the commission helpful Lilith?
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m going to post the time at the calendar and the forum soon
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I think there are a lot of things that can be done easily
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: to help our merchants
[9:37] Rose Springvale: great
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: and sure is the commision helpful
[9:37] Rose Springvale: we look forward to what we can do to support your efforts
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: to collect the ideas and bring them on it way
[9:37] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:38] Rose Springvale: great.. want to say more now, or wait?
[9:38] Lilith Ivory: done if there are no questions or suggestions
[9:38] Rose Springvale: i just would encourage the citizens to help you... there were some great discussions at your last meeting, imho
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees!
[9:39] Rose Springvale: thanks for your report. Citizenship, Arria?
[9:39] Lilith Ivory nods and wants to thank everybody who helped her already
[9:39] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:39] Arria Perreault: The Citizen commission has met already once
[9:39] Arria Perreault: last sunday
[9:40] Arria Perreault: before the meeting, I have made a collection of datas: lists of citizen, of parcels, all the laws related to this question
[9:40] Arria Perreault: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2996
[9:41] Arria Perreault: you can have all evidences on the forums, including the transcript
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we have discussed different points
[9:42] Arria Perreault: the citizenship is defined in the Constitution. it would mean a constitutional amendment (2/3)
[9:43] Arria Perreault: there are also different laws, especially the law which allow citizenship to group members, under some conditions
[9:43] Rose Springvale: yes, there are many issues. Do you think your commission will be able to bring a recommendation to the RA?
[9:43] Arria Perreault: yes, I think
[9:44] Arria Perreault: we will work on this law
[9:44] Arria Perreault: we have also discussed about the fact that citizen have not only rights, but also duties
[9:44] Arria Perreault: one of this duties is to maintain our sims
[9:44] Rose Springvale: it would be best if this can happen before the next election season begins in mid october, so hopefully you can bring us a full report and recommendations after the Electiosn commission
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Do you have any more meetings scheduled?
[9:45] Arria Perreault: I will organize a new meeting soon
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Thank you.
[9:45] Arria Perreault: yw
[9:45] Rose Springvale: okay, lets go to Comms. Kas?
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: ok, this'll be short -
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I'
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I've slacked for the past couple weeks
[9:46] Rose Springvale: where are our tomatoes!
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: Next up is to schedule a meeting with Anna and Sonja to get the notice provisions implemented,
[9:46] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: no you haven
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: t kas
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to compensate, there was a LOT of work done before those two weeks, so you're ahead in time
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: and to get from them some good times for a next commission meeting, to focus on getting them some good volunteer help where they might want it
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Gwyn
[9:47] Kaseido Quandry: so that's that, for now
[9:47] Rose Springvale: okay, great Kas. Looking forward to the implementation of the law!
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn has just a comment (not a suggestion). I really would like to add that commissions have been a rather long-standing feature of the CDS. Not all commissions are perfect, of course; and we certainly never had so many at the same time as during this term; but overall I have the strong opinion that their work is *very* useful, often comes up with completely unforeseen suggestions (which is GOOD), and are rather less formal than the RA, so people are more comfortable there. They're anything but "useless". You can see from the reports here that a LOT of work was done, a lot was achieved, and suggestions tend to be concrete ideas and not vague or abstract suggestions. So I really disagree with the notion that commissions are not useful...
[9:48] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[9:48] Rose Springvale: lets go on to Finance
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok,
[9:48] Rose Springvale: so Tor has as much time as we can give him
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy
[9:48] Rose Springvale: hehe
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:48] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: well keep your chat boxes open, cuz i void typing if i can
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: In the past month the commission met three times and different times. I have tried to have meetings when on different days of the week and at different times.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope this has provided times convenient to most interested citizens.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me briefly list what the commission has discussed.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: --The treasure should make a separate AV to keep reserve funds separate from operating funds. Sudane will look into doing this in late July or August.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: --RA should request that the New Guild re-parcel the large lot in AM (AH2) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: --Collection of tier is important, but the current law inhibits the Chancellor and Treasure in their duty and desire to enforce tier collections.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Thus, we will propose change to the current law: to remove the stipulation regarding the necessity to implement a method of prepayment of tier,
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:

[Rose Springvale]

[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: "Is creating commissions a real work ? Is making a bill a result ? ...A real project is something else than a commission work. "
[9:50] Rose Springvale: shh caro
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: to instruct the Chancellor to repossess all fully or partially delinquent parcels two weeks in arrears and
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: to finally return all objects and set for sale any parcel delinquent for one month.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: The current law is NL 9-2 Land Sales Reclamation Act found at: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=240
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: --We also found support for making our tier more uniform. We suggested we would look at his question more after this RA meeting.
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: ;p
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: However, in general support exists for basing tier on the number of prims allotted to each parcel.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: --There was also concern regarding any costs related to the eventuality of de-merger between the five original CDS sims and AA sims.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane was asked to begin considering this possibility.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: --All in all on the commission seemed hopeful that we could continue work on an expansion of NFS.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I did not hold subsequent meetings for several reasons. One RL concerns on my part. But also we had a number of meetings just in the past week and I suspected there might be conflicts.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Finally, the merger question was coming to a resolution and I thought it best to let this question get settled.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I am on leave this next two week and hope to have several meetings and optimum times for all.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: The two motions for which the commissions found support are posted to the forums at:
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3007
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3006
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Thats it
[9:52] Rose Springvale: wow
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[9:52] Rose Springvale: great report. thanks for taking the time to do all that!
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a lot to digest — thanks Tor!
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: wow, great work!
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: what tool are you using to give ur report tor? it's v handy
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: um Speakeasy
[9:53] Rose Springvale: Tor, would you like us to discuss the specific motions at this point?
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: the repaceling is probably the easiest
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: reparceling
[9:53] Rose Springvale: I think we know this commission is a huge one and will be ongoing for the term, so don't get nervous, or relax too much
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:53] Rose Springvale: okay, lets post it in the record please
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we have two motions...
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the New Guild re-parcel the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The RA requests that the New Guild report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[9:54] Rose Springvale: thank you. Do we have a second for the motion?
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: umm, isn't that the chancellors' job?
[9:55] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[9:55] Rose Springvale: thank you muhammed
[9:55] Rose Springvale: now we can discuss
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry raises a hand
[9:55] Rose Springvale: kas
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: I'd like to offer an amendment which I hope is just for clarification -
[9:56] Rose Springvale: ok...
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry whispers: in that last paragraph, to add after "re-parceling," - "and re-pricing"
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Chopping up an insanely priced parcel alone doesn't get us anything
[9:56] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: indeed kas
[9:56] Rose Springvale: any thoughts on that amendment?
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not totally agains repricing our land. But I wonder if that is too much to take on in this motion.
[9:56] Pip Torok: what amendment?
[9:57] Kaseido Quandry: scroll back, Pip
[9:57] Rose Springvale: so for now you'd reject the amendment to add repricing to this proposal
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami has a couple of questions when u r ready
[9:57] Tor Karlsvalt: i do agree with Kas, tho, our land seems to be prices way over comperable land elsewhere
[9:57] Rose Springvale: not friendly then, so i think we have to either have the amendment seconded and voted or withdrawn
[9:57] Arria Perreault: there is concept of pricing for each sim
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i didn't see an amendment. cd we have the text pls?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: need either a second on kas's motion or we return to the discussion
[9:58] Kaseido Quandry: in that last paragraph, to add after "re-parceling," - "and re-pricing"
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: seconded
[9:58] Arria Perreault: can Kas write the motion in a clear text?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: did
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok.... I had missed that too
[9:58] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i didn't get the text the first time
[9:58] Rose Springvale: okay, so now we are considering ONLY the amendment which adds repricing
[9:59] Rose Springvale: All in favor of amending the motion on the table to add repricing
[9:59] Rose Springvale: please say aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: i saw no amendment either Pat
[9:59] Arria Perreault: it would affect the pricing of the sim: two prim price for the same sim ....
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: if we are willing that is ok by me.
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: i agree, it's daft to try selling it at that price. why not fix it lower? (but not at zero:))
[9:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:59] Rose Springvale: lets stick with procedure
[9:59] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:59] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: abstain
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: aye,
[10:00] Arria Perreault: is it only the selling price, not the ffes?
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: i have no problem as thre seems to be wide support for this.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: Kas, Tor?
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:00] Arria Perreault: fees*
[10:00] Rose Springvale: okay, motion carries, the motion on the table now will include repricing as well
[10:00] Pip Torok: can someone IM the amended motion to me (thanks)
[10:00] Rose Springvale: now we can discuss the motion, and i think Pat is in line next
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut the selling price.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: sorry, I dd not vote and I had a comprehesnsion question
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: tor, have the AM residents requested this reparcelling?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: you can speak after pat
[10:01] Arria Perreault: now I vote aye, as Tor has answered my question
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: and, isn't this for the chancellor not the guild? (and not really us )
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: that's all
[10:01] Rose Springvale: anyone want to respond to pat?
[10:02] Arria Perreault: I agree with Pat that it is risky to ask the Guild as it is a bit sleepy
[10:02] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can do that
[10:02] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well.... my feeling is that we can certainly recommend the Chancellor with some action,
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: as amended
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but the RA shouldnt't try to replace the Executive in its role
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the New Guild re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The RA requests that the New Guild report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: the guild will meet tomorrow
[10:02] Rose Springvale: is my understanding
[10:02] Sonja Strom's ears perk up
[10:02] Arria Perreault: especially if it is only a farm for prims
[10:03] Arria Perreault: the Executive can decide of it will ask the Guild or not
[10:03] Rose Springvale: This parcel has been empty for nearly a year i believe
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami thought AM was already double-prim...
[10:03] Arria Perreault: we all want to solve this question, Rose
[10:03] Rose Springvale: I think the RA can make laws regarding land use
[10:03] Arria Perreault: the quickest soltion is to ask the Chancellor to do that
[10:03] Arria Perreault: and the Chancellor find a way to do this task
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: not sure i've had an answer on my first question
[10:03] Rose Springvale: so maybe this motion should be to request the chancellor to request the guild
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: it has been a problem since at least January and nothing was done.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... you see, my point here is the following. I think we ALL agree that this is something importan to do, and do quickly. My only fear is that we might be stepping outside the powers of the RA and thus the SC might veto the proposal... wasting even another week....
[10:04] Rose Springvale: who then will report back to the chancellor who will report to us. I think the community is asking, through this commission, which has met several times, for action.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd be fine with a motion to recommend teh Chancellor a course of action
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Rose
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: i'd be fine with that too gwyn
[10:05] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can even do it after the meeting
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[10:05] Pip Torok: me too
[10:05] Rose Springvale: i think the chancellor has the obligation to work with the guild
[10:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The chancellor attended at least two of the commissions meetings and had no objection.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: that's what happened when we reparcelled CN anyway
[10:05] Arria Perreault: the Guild is a NGO
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wellllllllll the Chancellor IS a member of teh guild
[10:05] Arria Perreault: not a gov agency
[10:05] Rose Springvale: does anyone have the law handy?
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i propose an amendment
[10:06] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can decide about land
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: change "RA requests that the New Guild " to "RA requests that the Chancellor"
[10:06] Arria Perreault: it's in the Constitution
[10:06] Rose Springvale: Tor? friendly?
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Because a chancellor can decide, does not mean the RA can't
[10:06] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:06] Rose Springvale: please just cite the scripture and verse if you have it Arria
[10:06] Carolyn Saarinen: and the thumb-bone connects to the arse-bone...."
[10:06] Arria Perreault: I second Pat's amendment
[10:07] Rose Springvale: Tor how do you feel about the suggested amendment?
[10:07] Rose Springvale: (i'd like ot hear from Sudane, i think she has to do that actual work)
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: no problem as long as something gets done.
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Section 2 - Powers of the Chancellor
The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power:
(a) to determine the use to which any and all land in CDS shall be put;
[10:07] Rose Springvale: okay, so we can take that as a friendly amendment
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There we go.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria
[10:08] Rose Springvale: one might argue that use and size/pricing are different, but lets vote
[10:08] Arria Perreault: yw
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[10:09] Rose Springvale: in favor of changing the language of the motion to read RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
[10:09] Rose Springvale: again, only voting on the language of the motion, not the content
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:09] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: do we want to keep the NG involved?
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: or just give this to the chancellor?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: The Chancellor can decide if she want to ask the Guild
[10:10] Rose Springvale: the chancellor generally gets expertise from the NG
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:10] Arria Perreault: it's not forbidden
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: let me change it then
[10:10] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:11] Rose Springvale: we are still votign
[10:11] Rose Springvale: only 5 votes so far, not passed yet
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry — aye on the vote )))
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:12] Arria Perreault: you hae to replace the first mention of the Guild too
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: wait have to correct paragraph second from the bottom too
[10:12] Rose Springvale: need to replace the new guild in the third paragraph
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[10:12] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:12] Rose Springvale: amendment carries, lets discuss content
[10:12] Rose Springvale: does the RA support the division of this land
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA requests the Chancellor to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: in this manner?
[10:13] Sudane Erato: question
[10:13] Rose Springvale: i have something to say, if others dont.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: okay sudane
[10:13] Sudane Erato: AM is a double-primmed sim
[10:13] Sudane Erato: and as such there is no other prim land available for a citizen to buy
[10:14] Sudane Erato: since there are so many prims on each parcel
[10:14] Sudane Erato: is it the intent to craete the only "prim parcel" that one person can buy?
[10:14] Rose Springvale: good question
[10:14] Rose Springvale: did your group discuss this Tor?
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we were going to leave the number of prim land parcels to the NG
[10:15] Rose Springvale: now chancellor i presume
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: the hope was we would maintain the open area as much as possible
[10:15] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questions?
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: is there demand for prim lots in AM tor?
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, there is interest
[10:15] Kaseido Quandry: I'd be interested in one
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: in prim land
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: ok. thx
[10:16] Rose Springvale: I've got one
[10:16] Pip Torok: so would AMUA
[10:17] Rose Springvale: AM is priced uniformly, all parcels at the same rate. Does it make sense to offer what will be a discount on ONE parcel, without offering it as a whole at the new discounted price? a lot of time went into planning the sim, and if price is the prohibitive factor, shouldn't we deal with that beore chopping it up?
[10:17] Rose Springvale: lots of land in Am is already held as prim parcels
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good questions
[10:18] Rose Springvale: and it IS a double prim sim... so if some want more prims, might they choose to move to a bigger parcel if the price were reasonable?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: or is it the tier that is a problem too?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: (which i think is the problem, since the land didn't sell even for 0 L)
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: True, but I think many like the parcels they are on
[10:18] Kaseido Quandry: oh, very good questions
[10:18] Pip Torok: the slope might present a problem for builds
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: and that parcel is concidered difficult to build on.
[10:19] Lilith Ivory nods
[10:19] Rose Springvale: it was built on before
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[10:19] Rose Springvale: before it was repossessed
[10:19] Kaseido Quandry: prim farms may be the best use - and keeping the open space would be nice
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: We coudl amend the motion again
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I always wanted to move there but can´t affort the tier (
[10:19] Rose Springvale: lets keep discussing before we amend again
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: change the AND to and AND/OR for repricing and reparcelling
[10:20] Rose Springvale: personally i'd like to see the chancellor take it to the New guild, as it was them who put the sim together
[10:20] Sonja Strom raises hand
[10:20] Rose Springvale: sonja?
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:21] Sonja Strom: As Chancellor I would be happy to take this to the Guild, and we can all proceed from there.
[10:21] Sonja Strom: With all respect to this Assembly,
[10:21] Sonja Strom: I feel this matter is best completed within the domain of the Executive,
[10:21] Pip Torok wd be fine with that
[10:22] Rose Springvale: i believe the commission was dealilng with the monetary effect of the land being idle
[10:22] Sonja Strom: naturally including the wishes of the RA.
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami would be find with that too
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so were looking for ways to fix that.
[10:22] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: *fine
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes rose
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that's right
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: We wanted to see the land begin paying tier
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so lets go ahead and vote on the motion, and if the chancellor feels that we are out of line, perhaps the SC can deal with it
[10:23] Pip Torok: aye
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: aye

[Rose Springvale]

[10:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: nay, there is no need for the bill
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well... technically you're right lol
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in practice, it's nice to show that the RA cares
[10:24] Pip Torok: lol
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami:
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thus my "aye")
[10:24] Rose Springvale: I'm opposed to the content, as i believe repricing of the whole sim should be considered before taking the plan apart, so i vote nay
[10:24] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:24] Rose Springvale: motion carries, we will see if the SC overrules it
[10:25] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a question
[10:25] Rose Springvale: yes?
[10:25] Sudane Erato: the re-pricing COULD be considered as a "one-time special" without violating your very valid concern
[10:25] Arria Perreault: now we are voting legislation, it would go to publish the motions, bills, acts we vote on the portal and to update the legislation
[10:26] Arria Perreault: we need a RA Archivist
[10:26] Rose Springvale: thank you for your concern Arria
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we'll consider that on a future agenda, now we are in the finance commission report
[10:26] Arria Perreault: I add I am volunteering to do this task
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we can talk later
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: yay, thx arria
[10:26] Rose Springvale: Tor, you have another motion for the group i believe
[10:27] Rose Springvale: i am not accepting that at this time pat
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: um yes, this is more involved.
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[10:27] Rose Springvale: post it, i'll brb
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whoopsie
[10:27] Arria Perreault: he thanks me for volunteer. Of course, my offer can be refused ...
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments.
2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a 'provisional citizen', and shall not have the
right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from 'provisional citizen' status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further intere
[10:29] Rose Springvale: okay, this is a motion from committee, so technically doesn't need a second, but i'd like one for the record please
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: interest in the parcel.
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds it.
[10:29] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[10:29] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: it is very long
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: does not go in chat well
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: would a nc be better?
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: could you summarise the impact pls?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: is there more? yes, and lets put in the box
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: what changes as a result of passing this motion?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: hold on a second while we get the text in front of eveyrone
[10:31] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you 'CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: i can't add to the box
[10:32] Rose Springvale: just give me your notecard
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it is in forum
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, perhaps you could give it to Rose, she'll put it inside the box
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah good, Arria
[10:32] Arria Perreault: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3007
[10:32] You decline 'CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ) from Object.
[10:32] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you 'Motion to amend NL 9-2' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:33] Rose Springvale: there now
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[10:33] Rose Springvale: okay. do you want to summarize for the assembly Tor?
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Currently the Chancelor and Treasurer find the law inadaquat
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: it leaves a loophole allowing landowners a way to avoid paying tier
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: and allows for some to skip paying tier when selling land.
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: So
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: This law will allow the Treas to reclaim but hold in reserve parcles if teir is overdue 14 days after the boxes close
[10:36] Rose Springvale: this shortens the current time substantially, correct?
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: then re-sell 30 days after the boxes close
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:36] Rose Springvale: so instead of a 3 month period without payments
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: boxes close on the 24th of evry month
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha yes. I see the issue... you could just stop paying tier one month before selling land, then tier would be the next owner's issue... and in the mean time, for a month, nobody would have paid tier.
[10:36] Rose Springvale: the land could become productive again after 6 weeks?
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: looks like it
[10:37] Rose Springvale: and you still would not allow prepayments, correct?
[10:37] Sudane Erato: we do not now have a provision for pre-payments
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not yet
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: yes that is right rose, we do not have a provision for pre-paymens
[10:38] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one question (for clarification): "ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner's properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above."
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that if you own, say, 3 plots...
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact the current law is really no law at all as it was suspened pending establishment of prepayment system
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and forget to pay for one... the CDS can reclaim all the others?
[10:38] Rose Springvale nods
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry nods at Gwyn
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: that seems excessive
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: which is grossly unjust
[10:38] Rose Springvale: forget... with the number of notices
[10:39] Rose Springvale: seems a bit unrealistic
[10:39] Sudane Erato: the current system is that you pay for all at once... regardless
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: are not all tier payments collected from one box?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. I see. There is here a detachment of the notion of "paying fees" from "being a citizen". A citizen is someone who pays ALL fees.
[10:39] Rose Springvale: i believe there is still provision for contact by the chancellor before forfeiture as well, correct?
[10:39] Sudane Erato: yes Lilith
[10:39] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... so... this doesn't really apply, does it?
[10:39] Rose Springvale: not sure what you are saying gwyn
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean hmm
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you cannot pay half the fee for a third of your land
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either you pay it all,
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or not at all.
[10:40] Sudane Erato: correct
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: right gwyn
[10:40] Rose Springvale: Sudane, if someone forfeits land though, intentionally, it comes off the box, correct?
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this item is really not necessary?
[10:40] Arria Perreault: can people abandon a land if they have someissue to pay?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: all they need to id notify?
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: that was the intention of the law to begin with
[10:40] Sudane Erato: yes, Rose, it does
[10:40] Rose Springvale: *is notify.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait... so the idea, Tor, is that this law validates how the land management system actually works?
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, I don't have any objection!
[10:41] Rose Springvale: As tor said, this is pretty complicated legislation, and we have more items on todays agenda. Do we want to review this more and take it up next week?
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: the law as currently in force, really hampers the treasurer
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you're right! We should make sure that the laws reflect what we already do (de jure following de facto )
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Tor, Sudane, I would like to know if can people abandon a land if they have someissue to pay, with this updated law?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: I'd be happy to support this - *with* prepayments
[10:42] Rose Springvale: agreed kas.
[10:42] Sudane Erato: people can always abandon land
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn would love that too.
[10:42] Patroklus Murakami: i'd be interested to hear sudane and sonja's views before voting on this
[10:42] Rose Springvale: do we have a motion to extend or table to the next meeting?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: move to table to next meeting
[10:42] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: second
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[10:43] Arria Perreault: yes, I second
[10:43] Rose Springvale: thank you, all in favor?
[10:43] Sudane Erato: i'm supportive of what Tor is proposing
[10:43] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:43] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:43] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:43] Arria Perreault: we need to talk about this in the forums
[10:43] Pip Torok: aye
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: ty sudane
[10:43] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But please, I'd love to second Pat's suggestion as well — let's have some info and suggestions from Sudane & Sonja
[10:43] Rose Springvale: thank you all, We'll extend this discussion to the next meeting, on thursday or saturday, depending on the Commission chairs schedule
[10:43] Rose Springvale: please watch notices.
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: .)
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:44] Rose Springvale: thank you Tor, i know this is hard work and it is work we need to do carefully
[10:44] Arria Perreault: when is the next meeting?
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: RL calls
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: it is a joy
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:44] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming Soro
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Tor. I agree with Rose, and I think we're pretty close to agree on that
[10:44] Arria Perreault: bye Soro
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Soro!
[10:44] Rose Springvale: next item on the agenda is a discussion of the by election.
[10:44] Sonja Strom is thankful to Tor, and believes this issue can move forward quickly
[10:44] Rose Springvale: As you all know, with the withdrawal of Al Andalus, we have lost one member of the RA
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: awwww
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:45] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:45] Rose Springvale: this leaves us one member short per the certiffied number of the representatives for this term
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... unless that member quickly buys a plot...
[10:45] Rose Springvale: but also leaves the RA at an even number, which we cannot leave
[10:45] Rose Springvale: he's declined. i've asked
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: we have lots for sale
[10:45] Rose Springvale: My reading of the STV legislation says we must have a by election to fill the seat, so would propose that we send this to the SC to establish
[10:46] Rose Springvale: and carrry on as soon as possible
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well that really means we have to go with that...
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Any thoughts?
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me re-read that bit of law... I think it's automatic,
[10:46] Rose Springvale: still they need to set dates
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. we really wouldn't need to ask the SC for establishment
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no... the RA sets dates... that wasn't changed yet
[10:47] Rose Springvale: okay, but someone oversees the voting.... yes?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn just asks for a few minutes!
[10:47] Rose Springvale: not on the agenda! lol
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fair's fair
[10:47] Rose Springvale: does someone wish to propose dates then?
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: probably need to give ppl two weeks
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Rose. You ARE right.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies!
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law."
[10:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Straight from the Constitution.
[10:48] Rose Springvale: so lets refer it to the SC shall we?
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, motion to move it to the SC immediately.
[10:48] Arria Perreault: let the SC do it
[10:48] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok cool we are off the hook
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: second
[10:48] Rose Springvale: arria is that a second to gywns motion..okay pat
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Tor
[10:48] Arria Perreault: I am not sure the SC needs a motion
[10:49] Rose Springvale: doesn't hurt
[10:49] Arria Perreault: second
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't think so, either, but it doesn't hurt.... right EOse
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Rose even
[10:49] Rose Springvale: lets just vote to refer and ask the SC to help us asap
[10:49] Arria Perreault: it's an automatic process
[10:49] Arria Perreault: The SC must only know about the fact one RA memer is gone
[10:49] Rose Springvale: expected discussion of the fact that now we will each be representing about 5 people.. but okay
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's another story, but RA members are elected based on the number of citizens at the time of election; fluctuations are just accounted for at the next term.
[10:50] Pip Torok: which member has gone btw?
[10:50] Rose Springvale: the SC will be meeting monday i believe, so we can let them take it up
[10:50] Rose Springvale: Stui
[10:50] Pip Torok: ah ....
[10:50] Arria Perreault: I see Delia ....
[10:50] Rose Springvale: so no need to vote, fine. we can move on
[10:50] Delia Lake: the SC will meet at noon slt on Monday
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia
[10:51] Rose Springvale: will you take judicial notice that we don't need to vote on this motion?
[10:51] Kaseido Quandry: Delia, could the SC meetings get onto the calendar?
[10:51] Delia Lake: yes
[10:51] Rose Springvale: ty
[10:51] Delia Lake: and yes
[10:51] Rose Springvale: We are to item V, concerns of RA members, with a prayer of finishing close to on time. Floor is open
[10:52] Rose Springvale: any concerns
[10:52] Rose Springvale: ?
[10:52] Rose Springvale: let me address the issue of archivist
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes please
[10:52] Rose Springvale: Cindy has volunteered to help as well but i havn't seen her for a while, and since arria is already chairing a commission, makes sense to me to spread the wealth
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i think Cindy is travelling, but will be in touch with her to see if she is still interested
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i believe she has the skills to do the work as well
[10:53] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have an access to the portal and I a used to
[10:53] Arria Perreault: it's not a big work for me
[10:54] Rose Springvale: yes arria, but i think we need to have more people with those skills involved, so lets just hold for now
[10:54] Arria Perreault: anyway, the position is elected
[10:54] Arria Perreault: by the RA
[10:54] Rose Springvale: thank you for your input. we'll have it on the agenda in a future meeting. There have been several terms where no RA Archivist was elected at all, i'm not concerned
[10:54] Rose Springvale: other issues?
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: i propose arria for RA archivist
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose that teh major problem is to make sure that the backlog of laws is posted on the portal... whole years are missing
[10:55] Rose Springvale: indeed gwyn, but this term will be there
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd second that, Pat
[10:55] Arria Perreault: it's a problem for citizen who don't have an updated legislation
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: or perhaps we could propose both as joint archivists?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: folks, this is out of order
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[10:55] Rose Springvale: this is just discussion of concerns, no motions
[10:55] Arria Perreault: especially if we change the law about the way we pay fees
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that in effect creates a new role and a new item on the budget
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry, Rose, you're right.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Any other issues?
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: lunch
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:56] Rose Springvale: 4 more minutes Tor!
[10:56] Rose Springvale: if there are no more concerns of the RA, we can move to announcements
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that.
[10:57] Arria Perreault: I have one
[10:57] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:57] Rose Springvale: go ahead Arria
[10:57] Arria Perreault: ty
[10:58] Arria Perreault: The Roman regional committee have decided to make a party on the beach on the 1st August
[10:58] Rose Springvale: oh, you are on announcements?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Calli will DJ
[10:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:58] Rose Springvale: not concerns? let me make sure we are finished with concerns first please... Folks? any more?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: (I told my concern already)
[10:59] Rose Springvale: last meeting there was concern about the departure of Arias, and i thought you wanted to talk about that, but happy to move on
[10:59] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, announcements
[10:59] Arria Perreault: we can talk about that
[10:59] Kaseido Quandry: Might that be more appropriate for the town hall meeting?
[11:00] Carolyn Saarinen: He's actually gone at last?
[11:00] Pip Torok agrees with Kas
[11:00] Delia Lake: /
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I think CDS has to find a new dynamic and integrate new citizen with ideas and projects
[11:00] Rose Springvale: and how do you think that failed in this case?
[11:00] Carolyn Saarinen: More curtain calls than sinatra
[11:00] Pip Torok: need to define "gone" or "left"
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami think this will not end well....
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry agrees
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: As long as you all know he wanted to contoll all of LA for his university.

[Rose Springvale]

[11:00] Rose Springvale: Arria wanted to talk about it
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. Why is that a RA concern? With due respect to Arias, are we really going to review why all citizens come and go from the CDS, here at the RA?
[11:01] Pip Torok: ???? Tor?
[11:01] Rose Springvale: i promised to let her air her concern, so that's why it is here
[11:01] Arria Perreault: I don't think Arias wanted to "control" LA
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, this is a community, not a legislative, issue
[11:01] Arria Perreault: he did not pushed me out the sims
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And with due respect to Arria as well for bringing up the issue...
[11:01] Rose Springvale: Arria, are you satisfied that your concern as a legislator has been met?
[11:01] Patroklus Murakami: i don't think we should discuss ppl who are not here and their motives. i think this issue shd be discussed at another time and place
[11:01] Arria Perreault: my concern is that we have to be open with people with ideas
[11:02] Rose Springvale: and you think we are not
[11:02] Arria Perreault: I don't think we need a law for that
[11:02] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Pat and Kas. This is really not the place not the time
[11:02] Rose Springvale: lets move to announcements
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please.
[11:02] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:02] Carolyn Saarinen chortles
[11:02] Rose Springvale: Arria has announced a beach party on August !?
[11:02] Pip Torok: no but keeping that in mind is a good thing Arria
[11:02] Rose Springvale: 1?
[11:02] Rose Springvale: sorry, missed the date
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: wooot
[11:02] Arria Perreault: The Roman regional committee have decided to make a party on the beach on the 1st August
[11:03] Rose Springvale: and is the Inaugural ball the day before, with the same dj?
[11:03] Arria Perreault: I will check the right time and publish it
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: busy weekend I see
[11:03] Rose Springvale: might want to coordinate with the chancellor
[11:03] Rose Springvale: Sonja, is that correct, the ball is on the 31st?
[11:03] Arria Perreault: we have discussed that
[11:03] Arria Perreault: and Calli have informed SOnja
[11:04] Arria Perreault: why not to have fun an entire weekn edn
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes, the Inaugural Ball is scheduled for the 31st,
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:04] Rose Springvale: smiles, we are the party project after all.
[11:04] Arria Perreault: we love parties
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and then a Beach Party is scheduled for the 1st.
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Why not?
[11:04] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: I think both sound fun
[11:05] Rose Springvale: okay, then lets have a motion to adjourn please
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: so moved
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[11:05] Rose Springvale: thank you,
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconsd
[11:05] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:05] Pip Torok: aye
[11:05] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: and, congratulations to us on getting through an entire meeting without so much as snarking, let alone fighting!
[11:06] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear kas
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:06] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your service. Please try to get your meetings up with as much notice as possible, and expect to continue the Finance commission report either on thursday or saturday this week
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I knew something was missing...
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[11:06] Jeroma Wycliffe: Most edifying
[11:06] Rose Springvale: taking the record now