This chat log was provided by Lam Erin, who wasn't there at the beginning of the meeting:
[2013/12/14 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There.
[2013/12/14 10:43] Pat (patroklus.murakami): /me notes that cleo only reprimands me and not other citizens...
[2013/12/14 10:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 
[2013/12/14 10:43] Callipygian Christensen: /me inspects the seam of her sleeve wich is on the arm in the air
[2013/12/14 10:44] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2013/12/14 10:44] Shep (shep.titian): Calli )
[2013/12/14 10:44] Callipygian Christensen: thank you - two things
[2013/12/14 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On my last count to insert Bags proposal as a bill, I've counted 'ayes' from Gwyn, Cleo, Tor
[2013/12/14 10:44] Second Life: Ceasar Xigalia is online.
[2013/12/14 10:44] Callipygian Christensen: It has been debated at length in the past that talking of soething at RA is not good enough as notification to the citizens
[2013/12/14 10:45] Callipygian Christensen: most dont read the transcrits so there have been many times that what is talked of here is not considred read by them.
[2013/12/14 10:45] Callipygian Christensen: Second, no whee in Bag's text or RA's for that matter is wording of a 'motion'..it is described as ideas
[2013/12/14 10:46] Callipygian Christensen: if an actual motion were put out it should have been shown clearly I believe..and posted for citizens to be aware of *done*
[2013/12/14 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me raises hand to answer to Calli, but seriously, I'd prefer to go on with the vote instead of discussing in the middle of a voting! That's highly irregular!
[2013/12/14 10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand.
[2013/12/14 10:48] Shep (shep.titian): It has already passed the vote
[2013/12/14 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2013/12/14 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks
[2013/12/14 10:49] Shep (shep.titian): I daresay Rosie's 7 day won't count lol
[2013/12/14 10:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand..
[2013/12/14 10:50] Shep (shep.titian): MMoving on
[2013/12/14 10:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Speaking of Rosies vote we never did declare for the Conflict of Interest Law .. this term.. so i think probably that would have been what she would say, that she is the LEader of the Guild and cannot vote on matter to do with it at all, but i am not sure..
[2013/12/14 10:50] Shep (shep.titian): Should be reading last meetings minutes
[2013/12/14 10:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i raised my hand shep
[2013/12/14 10:51] Shep (shep.titian): they are not available yet .. so Speakers on today's agenda
[2013/12/14 10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: /me thinks we all have conflicts of interest as soon as our land it in question.
[2013/12/14 10:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i'd like to speak on cleo's proposal to turn back the clock on RA size
[2013/12/14 10:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: there is a law about conflict of interest .. regarding RA members.. some conflicts are more relevant than others
[2013/12/14 10:52] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me wonders why the CDSers are all so paranoid about conflicts of interest.
[2013/12/14 10:52] Shep (shep.titian): OK I decided to move on Cleo
[2013/12/14 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so review and approve minutes from last RA meeting, right?
[2013/12/14 10:52] Second Life: Dr. Endora McAndrews (endoramcandrewsii) is offline.
[2013/12/14 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me refrains from answering publicly to snarky comments — I'll do my best to behave today heh heh
[2013/12/14 10:53] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie gains no benefit from freely giving her time and expertise
[2013/12/14 10:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: shep what does that have to do with her voting on Guild issues as an RA member?
[2013/12/14 10:53] Shep (shep.titian): Where is the conflict?
[2013/12/14 10:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Seriously
[2013/12/14 10:53] Shep (shep.titian): SEriously
[2013/12/14 10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: /me hopes we can just vote on the minutes.
[2013/12/14 10:54] Shep (shep.titian): WE don't have them Tor
[2013/12/14 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
[2013/12/14 10:54] Shep (shep.titian): I had moved forward
[2013/12/14 10:54] Callipygian Christensen: They've been on the Forms since the 9th..so apparently everyone in CDS knows them
[2013/12/14 10:54] Second Life: Minh Seon Shi (shenmei) is offline.
[2013/12/14 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry. Aren't the minutes here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4235 (that's what you meant, Calli, right?)
[2013/12/14 10:55] Callipygian Christensen: Indeed Gwyn
[2013/12/14 10:56] Shep (shep.titian): I thought they were to be published AFTER being ratitied
[2013/12/14 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, you thought well
[2013/12/14 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For example, I have obviously to raise an issue with those minutes —
[2013/12/14 10:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that is what was voted on, indeed.
[2013/12/14 10:56] Callipygian Christensen: There was a Forum post addressing that too
[2013/12/14 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: namely, I wish to add "Gwyneth Llewelyn proposed to add the Chancellors proposal to be voted on the next RA session"
[2013/12/14 10:56] Viking fur cloak resize: whispers: Time out, click again for use...
[2013/12/14 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, I'm ignoring that deliberately, Calli … leaving drama on where it should be hehe)
[2013/12/14 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Besides that, and assuming we haven't another text besides what was posted on the forums, I'm fine with the minutes
[2013/12/14 10:58] Viking fur cloak resize: whispers: Time out, click again for use...
[2013/12/14 10:58] Shep (shep.titian): Ok well if everyone is happy with them we can vote on them
[2013/12/14 10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 10:59] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2013/12/14 10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: With or without my amendment?
[2013/12/14 11:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: abstain as they were not treated correctly .
[2013/12/14 11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Gwyn, why don't you motion to add the amendment.
[2013/12/14 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought I just did... but ok...
[2013/12/14 11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: well i heard a complaint.
[2013/12/14 11:00] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me did not read "I motion..."
[2013/12/14 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed. I said "I wish to add..."
[2013/12/14 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now I'll rephrase that:
[2013/12/14 11:01] Shep (shep.titian): It's such a shame this was'nt all sorted through in a manner of lets get this all right together
[2013/12/14 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I motion that we move the text of the minutes of the meeting on Dec 3. as posted on http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4235 to add "Gwyneth Llewelyn proposed to add the Chancellors proposal to be voted on the next RA session"
[2013/12/14 11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2013/12/14 11:02] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2013/12/14 11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Shep. I would prefer that next time we get the minutes during the RA session, but ok (perhaps we can amend the motion made on the first extraordinary meeting to post minutes, and explain HOW they should be posted — but that's not on the agenda today, so I'll hush)
[2013/12/14 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2013/12/14 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW: aye on approving the minutes with my proposed amendment
[2013/12/14 11:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: abstain
[2013/12/14 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (just to be clear)
[2013/12/14 11:03] Shep (shep.titian): I'm abstaining too
[2013/12/14 11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: aye, like Gwyn said.
[2013/12/14 11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: We don't want to pass the amended minutes?
[2013/12/14 11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: /sighs
[2013/12/14 11:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok i change mine to aye
[2013/12/14 11:04] Shep (shep.titian): Ha!
[2013/12/14 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2013/12/14 11:05] Shep (shep.titian): so passed
[2013/12/14 11:05] Shep (shep.titian): Ok now vote for the minutes
[2013/12/14 11:05] Lam Erin: (thanks god, devil and everyone else up there in the sky)
[2013/12/14 11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 11:05] Sudane Erato:
[2013/12/14 11:06] Sudane Erato: (or down below)
[2013/12/14 11:06] Lam Erin: (amen Sudane)
[2013/12/14 11:06] Shep (shep.titian): Not done Lam lol .. that was to add words .. NOW we need the minutes as a whole
[2013/12/14 11:06] Shep (shep.titian): No one seconding
[2013/12/14 11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2013/12/14 11:07] Second Life: Lilith Ivory is online.
[2013/12/14 11:07] Shep (shep.titian): Vote for the full minutes
[2013/12/14 11:07] Shep (shep.titian): Aye
[2013/12/14 11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 11:07] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo?
[2013/12/14 11:07] Shep (shep.titian): Gwyn
[2013/12/14 11:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me gimme 2 ticks
[2013/12/14 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2013/12/14 11:08] Shep (shep.titian): Passed
[2013/12/14 11:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: aye
[2013/12/14 11:08] Shep (shep.titian): Dear lord
[2013/12/14 11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[2013/12/14 11:09] Shep (shep.titian): Speakers on todays items .. we have established Bags is here
[2013/12/14 11:09] Lam Erin: congrats all it took only one hour!
[2013/12/14 11:09] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i would like to speak on cleo's RA proposal
[2013/12/14 11:09] Shep (shep.titian): Lam will you be speaking for the Guild?
[2013/12/14 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, as a point of honour — there has been some discussion around how to properly post/amend/approve the minutes, and Calli just pointed out what was originally approved — "Rosie Gray: Motion to have regular formal Minutes of meetings posted of the RA meetings, and to include a separate posting of the chat as well. All to be posted onto the CDS forum. The Minutes will be approved or amended at the following RA meeting. Seconded by Gwyneth Llewelyn, all voted in favour, motion carried." So the procedure that we have established on Nov 23 means — minutes go on the forums, to be amended and approved at teh subsequent RA session
[2013/12/14 11:10] Second Life: Kristaki Hudson is online.
[2013/12/14 11:10] Lam Erin: (let me know when I have to speak Shep)
[2013/12/14 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here is where this was approved: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4236
[2013/12/14 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry. My point of honour is finished. Thanks
[2013/12/14 11:11] Second Life: Seth Regan (mankind.tracer) is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:12] Shep (shep.titian): WE had moved on .. that SHOULD be stricken from the minutes
[2013/12/14 11:12] Second Life: Seth Regan (mankind.tracer) is online.
[2013/12/14 11:12] Shep (shep.titian): Ok Citizens concerns
[2013/12/14 11:13] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2013/12/14 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What should be stricken out of the minutes? A point of honour as a declaration of vote, or Lam's request to speak?
[2013/12/14 11:13] Second Life: Diana Debevec is online.
[2013/12/14 11:13] Shep (shep.titian): I am sure you are stunned to silence .. but if there are any concerns?
[2013/12/14 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me notes that Lam & Calli raised their hands
[2013/12/14 11:14] Shep (shep.titian): Calli?
[2013/12/14 11:14] Callipygian Christensen: thank you - the lack of an archivist for the term, and of a pro tempore LRA, is likely from past experiences to cause difficulty in the term. Would the RA please consider appointing one of each please
[2013/12/14 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I definitely will propose that as a motion, Calli — if the LRA accepts it as a motion, I'm all for it
[2013/12/14 11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: My understanding is Bagheera was remaining archivest .
[2013/12/14 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Conflict of interest, Cleo 
[2013/12/14 11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: We discussed this. .. i agree.
[2013/12/14 11:15] Sudane Erato: lol
[2013/12/14 11:15] Shep (shep.titian): Trebor had agreed Archivist .. but last I looked was'nt here
[2013/12/14 11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: He is here now.
[2013/12/14 11:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: or he was..
[2013/12/14 11:15] Shep (shep.titian): So he was
[2013/12/14 11:16] Trebor Warcliffe: I arrived late, my time was off by an hour
[2013/12/14 11:16] Sudane Erato: he's here breathing down the back of my neck
[2013/12/14 11:16] Shep (shep.titian): Ok Treb
[2013/12/14 11:16] Sudane Erato:
[2013/12/14 11:16] Trebor Warcliffe: AUNTIEEE!!!
[2013/12/14 11:16] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2013/12/14 11:16] Bagheera Kristan: At the swearing in, I think we had discussed that I am NOT archivist anymore
[2013/12/14 11:16] Second Life: Alex (healer) is online.
[2013/12/14 11:16] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Bags
[2013/12/14 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2013/12/14 11:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I misunderstood, thank you Bagheera.
[2013/12/14 11:16] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Lam
[2013/12/14 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So can we confirm Trebor as appointed RA Archivist? Just to clarify matters?
[2013/12/14 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (assuming Trebor's willing)
[2013/12/14 11:17] Shep (shep.titian): Treb .. still ok?
[2013/12/14 11:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: He cant tell time
[2013/12/14 11:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: should we worry about this ?
[2013/12/14 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh!
[2013/12/14 11:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I am willing. I only ask that one other individual keeps a log just in case of technical errors or in my absence.
[2013/12/14 11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: The viewer keeps track of the time.
[2013/12/14 11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: reasonable.
[2013/12/14 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better to have a RA archivist that cannot tell time that none at all.... ok, motion to approve Trebor as RA Archivist during the 20th term. Any seconds?
[2013/12/14 11:18] Trebor Warcliffe: The sun is not shining outside my house today so I was unable to determine what time it was
[2013/12/14 11:18] Shep (shep.titian): Ok ... thanks Treb
[2013/12/14 11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2013/12/14 11:19] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2013/12/14 11:19] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2013/12/14 11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 11:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: He looks a lot like Johnny Depp to me, but Ill vote aye.
[2013/12/14 11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: /me looks out the window at the snow piling up and envies Trebor's Florida sun.
[2013/12/14 11:19] Shep (shep.titian): Gwyn voting?
[2013/12/14 11:20] Shep (shep.titian): Ok its passed anyway with three votes
[2013/12/14 11:20] Trebor Warcliffe: I VOLUNTEERED FOR WHAT? LOL
[2013/12/14 11:21] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2013/12/14 11:21] Shep (shep.titian): Archivist lol
[2013/12/14 11:21] Trebor Warcliffe: dag nabbit
[2013/12/14 11:21] Shep (shep.titian): Congrats
[2013/12/14 11:21] Lam Erin: congrats Trebor and good luck you will neeed it
[2013/12/14 11:21] Trebor Warcliffe: yea I think so
[2013/12/14 11:22] Shep (shep.titian): Calli can TReb have permission for the RA forum
[2013/12/14 11:22] Bagheera Kristan: ((that's what you get for looking like Johnnie Depp, who also always has that "what just happened?" look)) LOL
[2013/12/14 11:22] Second Life: LiLi Ivanova-Palmer (lili.ivanova) is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:22] Callipygian Christensen: already spoke to him Shep
[2013/12/14 11:22] Pip Torok: /me thinks Trebor needs educat ...
[2013/12/14 11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: /me hopes Treb's computer has enough ram to hold all the chat from RA.
[2013/12/14 11:22] Shep (shep.titian): Good thank you
[2013/12/14 11:22] Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on
[2013/12/14 11:22] Second Life: LiLi Ivanova-Palmer (lili.ivanova) is online.
[2013/12/14 11:23] Shep (shep.titian): RA members concerns
[2013/12/14 11:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2013/12/14 11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2013/12/14 11:23] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo
[2013/12/14 11:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I have a question about parcels in Arears, one i saw this am was 68 days in arrears while we have people trying to buy land with none available.
[2013/12/14 11:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a few for two weeks in areears also
[2013/12/14 11:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2013/12/14 11:24] Shep (shep.titian): I think this is a question for the exec
[2013/12/14 11:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me looks at Bagheera
[2013/12/14 11:25] Sudane Erato: i can help with that answer... if requested
[2013/12/14 11:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sure
[2013/12/14 11:25] Bagheera Kristan: That is something I had intended to look at - but as some of you know - this week was spent putting out fires LOL
[2013/12/14 11:25] Shep (shep.titian): Sudane if you would please
[2013/12/14 11:25] Bagheera Kristan: I'd behonored if Sudane would help
[2013/12/14 11:26] Sudane Erato: all the boxes are set to allow up to 90 days in arraers... because
[2013/12/14 11:26] Second Life: Alex (healer) is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:26] Sudane Erato: many people go into arraers without intending to
[2013/12/14 11:26] Sudane Erato: and then pay up... this has just happened recently
[2013/12/14 11:26] Sudane Erato: so... that system works from an auto poitnt of view
[2013/12/14 11:26] Sudane Erato: but
[2013/12/14 11:27] Sudane Erato: if someone actually wants to buy
[2013/12/14 11:27] Sudane Erato: I would suggest that they contact the Chancellor
[2013/12/14 11:27] Trebor Warcliffe: Thankfully when they pay up they catch up all of their back tier plus whatever new tier is due.
[2013/12/14 11:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So this actually means i can log in , pay tier, then after six months come and pay, so i can log in two times a year and pay and vote ? This is something ages ago we discussed when the first tier boxes were set up to make sure that people were in world one time a month. Is it about collecting money ? or participation.
[2013/12/14 11:27] Sudane Erato: and that the Chancellor contact the person in arrears
[2013/12/14 11:27] Sudane Erato: and that if that person doesn't pay
[2013/12/14 11:27] Sudane Erato: then the parcel be repossessed and resold
[2013/12/14 11:28] Sudane Erato: Celo... many peo;lle go into arraers
[2013/12/14 11:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how long does the chancellor have to wait to take the parcel ?
[2013/12/14 11:28] Sudane Erato: and then it used to be that the land would go for sale
[2013/12/14 11:28] Sudane Erato: and then the original owner would come back
[2013/12/14 11:28] Second Life: Ben Shutt is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:29] Sudane Erato: and then pay again... so that the CDS lost a LOT of money that way
[2013/12/14 11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand to speak to this issue also, if I can provide any history.
[2013/12/14 11:29] Sudane Erato: indeed... many folks well known to us did that procedure
[2013/12/14 11:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So this evolved with the new hppo but violates the former law and rules of one time a month payment. And it so discurouages participation f people,
[2013/12/14 11:29] Lam Erin: If people come back and pay it is fine but if they dont then CDS loses alot of money
[2013/12/14 11:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: also it is a way to allow a chancellor who is "rogue" too much discretion
[2013/12/14 11:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Land EQUALS voting power
[2013/12/14 11:29] Sudane Erato: people used that system to benefit themselves
[2013/12/14 11:30] Sudane Erato: and it was changed to 90 days to prevent that
[2013/12/14 11:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and if this is too much discretion with the chancellor trying to get re elected. well..
[2013/12/14 11:30] Second Life: Kristaki Hudson is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: But let me ask one technical question.
[2013/12/14 11:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: of sudane, or tor or trebor..
[2013/12/14 11:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if Bagheera found a parcel in lets say 80 days in arrears.. and wanted to reset it .. can she
[2013/12/14 11:30] Sudane Erato: of course
[2013/12/14 11:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and set it for sale or indeed give it to someone she wishes
[2013/12/14 11:31] Sudane Erato: if she wishes, she technically has that power
[2013/12/14 11:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: This is unacceptable to be at the whim of a person who may want to get re elected. it is a way to pack the vote.
[2013/12/14 11:31] Trebor Warcliffe: Cleo the law states that in order to vote the individual must be a citizen for at least 30 calendar days. The use of Hippo doesn't violate this law.
[2013/12/14 11:31] Shep (shep.titian): Giving would be frowned on lol
[2013/12/14 11:31] Sudane Erato: that's right
[2013/12/14 11:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: or indeed keep people from getting in CDS, and robs us from money
[2013/12/14 11:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I have witnesssed Chancellors giving land to people they know. Shep. it can happen. we have no transparency i know of
[2013/12/14 11:32] Shep (shep.titian): Not if they catch up
[2013/12/14 11:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 1L
[2013/12/14 11:32] Sudane Erato: it robs us from money when people leave their own hippo box go unpaid... and then come back and pay as if nothing had happened
[2013/12/14 11:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Well the point isnt who did it or not, bu t that if tehy can, it needs to be fixed IMHO
[2013/12/14 11:32] Sudane Erato: and thats what happened when it was not set for 90 days
[2013/12/14 11:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i agree Sudane, lets fix that it cannot happen.
[2013/12/14 11:32] Second Life: SkyRider Sicling is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:32] Shep (shep.titian): Make a proposal
[2013/12/14 11:32] Shep (shep.titian): Not now
[2013/12/14 11:32] Trebor Warcliffe: Than Cleo you should propose a solution to this problem.
[2013/12/14 11:33] Sudane Erato: Cleo, thats exactly what we have done
[2013/12/14 11:33] Sudane Erato: thank you for the vote of confidence
[2013/12/14 11:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: No the problem i mean is that the chancellor alone has this discretion
[2013/12/14 11:33] Shep (shep.titian): He does'nt
[2013/12/14 11:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I do not agree with the system the way it is now, because it gives the chancellor too much discretion to make this and it is not transparent
[2013/12/14 11:33] Trebor Warcliffe: So make a proposal addressign that issue adn present it in the forums and at the next meeting.
[2013/12/14 11:33] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2013/12/14 11:33] Shep (shep.titian): estate managers can too
[2013/12/14 11:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done.
[2013/12/14 11:33] Sudane Erato: I said she has that technical power... NOT that she has that discretion
[2013/12/14 11:34] Shep (shep.titian): OK this is'nt for now
[2013/12/14 11:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Who has the discretion
[2013/12/14 11:34] Sudane Erato: you asked a technical question... i gaver a technical answer
[2013/12/14 11:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok so who has the descretion?
[2013/12/14 11:34] Shep (shep.titian): if you want it changed Cleo bring it in properly
[2013/12/14 11:34] Sudane Erato: thats a legal questipon
[2013/12/14 11:34] Shep (shep.titian): Tor
[2013/12/14 11:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes so legally who makes the call ?
[2013/12/14 11:34] Tor Karlsvalt: /me notes that Cleo was done
[2013/12/14 11:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I might add that during my time as Chancellor most of the people in arrears paid up their past due amounts. Several newer citizens, lacking any history of payment were booted before 90 days or after extensive efforts to contact them were ignored.
[2013/12/14 11:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: haha til sudane clarified. still waiting to find out legally who makes the call.
[2013/12/14 11:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so it is up to the chancellor alone
[2013/12/14 11:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: at the chancellors discretion legally
[2013/12/14 11:35] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo this is too big for here and now .. or do yopu want to pass on your item ?
[2013/12/14 11:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I have never given land to a person who has not paid for land
[2013/12/14 11:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 1l
[2013/12/14 11:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i have their name
[2013/12/14 11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Nor have I nor any chancellor I am aware of worked to deny people from coming to CDS.
[2013/12/14 11:36] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo please can we move on
[2013/12/14 11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: You have nothing cleo.
[2013/12/14 11:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Tor there was a time when you and Trebor given land to people to get the tier. we all know it, and i just want to make sure we have a system that doesnt allow anyone to do it.
[2013/12/14 11:37] Shep (shep.titian): Moving on
[2013/12/14 11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Wrong Cleo.
[2013/12/14 11:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its in the records.. but the point is we discussed. this.. thank you
[2013/12/14 11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I never gave any land to anyone.
[2013/12/14 11:37] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2013/12/14 11:37] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2013/12/14 11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: All land was paid for.
[2013/12/14 11:37] Second Life: SkyRider Sicling is online.
[2013/12/14 11:38] Second Life: Augusta Fride is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:38] Callipygian Christensen: I request that 'we all know it' be struck from the minutes - perhashaps the honourable member could stick to 'I believe' when stating her view of the facts
[2013/12/14 11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: I have to say, that the chancellor may reclaim and boot people if they are 14 days in arrears. It has been the practice to wait longer in order to be fair to long time citizens. My experience had been that most citizens pay up.
[2013/12/14 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to agree... I don't feel comfortable about having those allegations and discussions here
[2013/12/14 11:38] Second Life: Augusta Fride is online.
[2013/12/14 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: agree *with Calli — so I motion that we change that too
[2013/12/14 11:39] Second Life: Gina G (gina.gracemount) is online.
[2013/12/14 11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I have reclaimed land earlier than that if I know people are wanting to buy land. But never until I have sent numerous IM, notecards and emails.
[2013/12/14 11:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: my only point is it is legal for them to do so at the moment
[2013/12/14 11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[2013/12/14 11:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its actually not personal at all
[2013/12/14 11:39] Shep (shep.titian): OK Moving on and yes Cleo will you withdraw your accusal?
[2013/12/14 11:40] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo, you are always personal.
[2013/12/14 11:40] Tor Karlsvalt: This issue is not on the agenda.
[2013/12/14 11:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not that i saw tor give a guy land for 1L no, i saw that, but i do have no proof at my fingertips that Trebor did it, but it was discussed as a viable option to get the tier, that is my point.
[2013/12/14 11:40] Shep (shep.titian): CLEO FGS!
[2013/12/14 11:40] Tor Karlsvalt: my final comment:
[2013/12/14 11:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: true .. i brought up a issue and question on concerns of RA members. you are next.
[2013/12/14 11:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Well your point and what you accused me of is a BIG DIFFERENCE
[2013/12/14 11:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I just want to commend Bagheera, Rosie and Sudane for all the hard work put into winterizing the sims. I am especially happy about the work done in NFS with the snowy roads and decorations on the plats. I also than all the citizens for their efforts at decorating.
[2013/12/14 11:41] Trebor Warcliffe: One should learn to watch their words before they press the enter button
[2013/12/14 11:41] Lam Erin: (I agree with Tor)
[2013/12/14 11:41] Lam Erin: (great work was done)
[2013/12/14 11:42] Shep (shep.titian): Yes I add my thanks .. its lovely
[2013/12/14 11:42] Callipygian Christensen: /me applauds..the winter look is lovely
[2013/12/14 11:42] Bagheera Kristan: *smiles* pleased to have happy citizens
[2013/12/14 11:42] Shep (shep.titian): Ok folks here we go .. Bags .. you're up next
[2013/12/14 11:43] Bagheera Kristan: Okay, thank you.
[2013/12/14 11:43] Second Life: Shauna Lighthouse is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:43] Bagheera Kristan: Please give me a moment.
[2013/12/14 11:43] Shep (shep.titian): Nps
[2013/12/14 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm afraid I have to leave you before Bags starts; so I'll have to request for 7-day votes 
My apologies
[2013/12/14 11:44] Second Life: Poulet Koenkamp is online.
[2013/12/14 11:44] Bagheera Kristan: So, okay, Gwyn thank you..
[2013/12/14 11:44] Bagheera Kristan: So, I had prepared something but the way this morning's meeting started made me have to revise how I am doing this
[2013/12/14 11:44] Shep (shep.titian): Ok Gwyn .. & day agreed
[2013/12/14 11:45] Shep (shep.titian): 7day
[2013/12/14 11:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I am sorry if tor got upset, i did not bring this up to upset him or make him look bad, i think the law needs to be changed. that is all , if we have a chancellor ever not so trustworthy as tor we might not be happy. .. excuse me for interrupting for this statement
[2013/12/14 11:45] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand.
[2013/12/14 11:45] Shep (shep.titian): Tor
[2013/12/14 11:45] Bagheera Kristan: Please be patient ... some of this was going to be presented as part of my Exec report.. but it makes sense to do it all here
[2013/12/14 11:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you Ms. LRA.
[2013/12/14 11:45] Bagheera Kristan: go ahead Tor
[2013/12/14 11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I propose, in defference to all here and the Chanellor who may need more time, that we ajorn the meeting, already going on two hours.
[2013/12/14 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh... if so, I second it... we can continue Tuesday perhaps?
[2013/12/14 11:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: When can we meet again the soonest
[2013/12/14 11:46] Bagheera Kristan: I am actually quite prepared now
[2013/12/14 11:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes turesday what time
[2013/12/14 11:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Noting we are barely though the agenda and we have other business today.
[2013/12/14 11:46] Bagheera Kristan: okies
[2013/12/14 11:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: What time on Tuesday ..
[2013/12/14 11:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i will drop my agenda item since i already spoke too much today.
[2013/12/14 11:47] Shep (shep.titian): Shall we hear Bags as she prepared ?
[2013/12/14 11:48] Shep (shep.titian): We can delay any vote
[2013/12/14 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang, I really have to go. I will just leave a note that I'm fine in meeting next Tuesday 4:30 PM if you're willing. And I obviously won't oppose Bags to speak
[2013/12/14 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry guys
[2013/12/14 11:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So we meet tuesday at what time ?
[2013/12/14 11:48] Shep (shep.titian): Ok see you Tuesday Gwyn
[2013/12/14 11:48] Lam Erin: 4me note second RA meeting too much talk little or no action).
[2013/12/14 11:49] Shep (shep.titian): 4.30 Cleo
[2013/12/14 11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I could probably make that if I don't have to close.
[2013/12/14 11:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 430
[2013/12/14 11:49] Shep (shep.titian): Ok shall we let Bags speak?
[2013/12/14 11:50] Trebor Warcliffe: I thought you all just agreed to call it a day?
[2013/12/14 11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: sure, that will take us to two hours.
[2013/12/14 11:50] Shep (shep.titian): Good
[2013/12/14 11:50] Shep (shep.titian): Bags is that ok ?
[2013/12/14 11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: why don't we try to keep the next meeting to LA
[2013/12/14 11:50] Bagheera Kristan: I am confused - which Tuesday or now?
[2013/12/14 11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I assumed this Tuesday.
[2013/12/14 11:50] Shep (shep.titian): Next Tuesday hun
[2013/12/14 11:50] Bagheera Kristan: okay yes, but I will have to leave by 5:30
[2013/12/14 11:51] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2013/12/14 11:51] Shep (shep.titian): !7th
[2013/12/14 11:51] Bagheera Kristan: I am prepared so my time will be quick I believe
[2013/12/14 11:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can she present it so the citizens can see it on the forums for a day or two
[2013/12/14 11:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: now
[2013/12/14 11:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so it will be posted. please
[2013/12/14 11:51] Shep (shep.titian): Yes if we have a rapid run through the small items
[2013/12/14 11:51] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2013/12/14 11:51] Bagheera Kristan: I can cut and paste everything now
[2013/12/14 11:52] Bagheera Kristan: 5 minutes tops
[2013/12/14 11:52] Bagheera Kristan: yes?
[2013/12/14 11:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: go
[2013/12/14 11:52] Bagheera Kristan: Shep?
[2013/12/14 11:52] Bagheera Kristan: Madame LRA?
[2013/12/14 11:52] Second Life: Silexe Core is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:52] Shep (shep.titian): Ok we have the date next meeting Tues 17th Dec at 4.30
[2013/12/14 11:53] Shep (shep.titian): Make minds up
[2013/12/14 11:53] Shep (shep.titian): OK Bags go for it
[2013/12/14 11:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: post now bagheera then we talk later
[2013/12/14 11:53] Bagheera Kristan: okay thankyou
[2013/12/14 11:53] Bagheera Kristan: As a new Chancellor, it seemed wise to seek counsel from others, which is what I’ve been doing. I am especially indebted to Lam Erin’s advice to me yesterday - he gave me the example of the EU - 26 separate countries - all bickering about everything, but they have to find some way to agree, so they start by finding the points they can agree on.
That said, my intent is to move forward positively, this (LA) has been stalled long enough.
I appreciate and am grateful for the massive contributions of the Guild and our previous Chancellor, Tor, and Calli’s efforts in design.
[2013/12/14 11:53] Bagheera Kristan: For the Guild’s proposed Covenants and mine - I think they can be merged successfully with little effort by adding the word “patio” to the list of items included/defined in landscaping for the 20% on countryside parcels.
[2013/12/14 11:53] Bagheera Kristan: This wouldn’t be in the covenants — but as part of the plan going forward, I have been and continue to oppose the need to move any current tenants. As all the occupied 512m and smaller parcels have government builds on them already, there is no conflict with the proposed Guild Covenants in that area.
[2013/12/14 11:54] Bagheera Kristan: I felt it wasn’t appropriate to declare it was possible to divvy and redesign LA without actually showing how it could be done - so I have worked up a preliminary parcel plan.
[2013/12/14 11:54] Bagheera Kristan: Above my head is a cube - my plan faces me - I will rotate as each item gets posted
[2013/12/14 11:54] Bagheera Kristan: A.
Here is how I propose reparceling LA - each block represents a 4x4m square - which is how sim parceling happens - even if one is building a circle or other shape over the top.
This plan does not disturb existing citizens, addresses the RA’s Tuscan theme and call for a fishing village, protects the prims needed for a 2x prim sim, it also “fixes” the parcels that have gone begging unsold in the SE corner and also makes the main entry from CN into LA have a sense of presence by some sort of fountain/roundabout/beautiful landmark in the road.
[2013/12/14 11:55] Bagheera Kristan: B.
Here is a photo of Portofino Fishing Village - I chose this one because the idea of underlying walls with paths underneath and above creates a sense of “discovery and destination” - so I used this as my model when planning the fishing village portion.
[2013/12/14 11:55] Bagheera Kristan: C.
I know it is hard to visualize from the map, so I did a very rudimentary (and incomplete) workup using prims to show how it might be configured
[2013/12/14 11:55] Second Life: LiLi Ivanova-Palmer (lili.ivanova) is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:55] Bagheera Kristan: D.
Here is a photo of a Tuscan build from the Marketplace - it has 25x48 dimensions - most Marketplace builds have a width of at least 20m and a depth that exceeds 32 - so a 24x48 parcel size in the countryside would be easy for a new citizen to find a build they liked and place it.
I favor having government built in easements whenever possible - since LA is a 2x prim sim, we are required to have the space stay open anyways and requiring the citizens manage their own easements leads to more fights between neighbors than any other single complaint I know. It doesn’t make sense to feed into this negativity when the government could design to avoid it.
This is also why I am requesting the addition of the word “patio” to the Guild’s proposed covenants.
[2013/12/14 11:56] Bagheera Kristan: argh - wrestles with prim - hopes you can all see it
[2013/12/14 11:56] Callipygian Christensen: (has to go since I have an event scheduled in 5 minutes on the CN Forum -)
[2013/12/14 11:56] Bagheera Kristan: and here is a mock up a a fountain
[2013/12/14 11:56] Bagheera Kristan: DONE
[2013/12/14 11:56] Lam Erin: (raises hands for brief comment at the end of chancellor's presentation)
[2013/12/14 11:57] Second Life: Eliza Wierwight is online.
[2013/12/14 11:57] Second Life: SkyRider Sicling is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:57] Bagheera Kristan: Done. thank you.
[2013/12/14 11:57] Second Life: LiLi Ivanova-Palmer (lili.ivanova) is online.
[2013/12/14 11:58] Lam Erin: (waiting from shep)
[2013/12/14 11:58] Shep (shep.titian): Lam
[2013/12/14 11:58] Lam Erin: thank you
[2013/12/14 11:59] Second Life: Augusta Fride is offline.
[2013/12/14 11:59] Second Life: Dr. Endora McAndrews (endoramcandrewsii) is online.
[2013/12/14 12:00] Lam Erin: I agree with the chancellor's proposals for a plan that does not disturb current land owners as i believe it is a way to avoid unnecessary complaints and other issues.
[2013/12/14 12:01] Lam Erin: from a technical point of view I believe that the current land owned by CDS is more than sufficient in size to be used for building the fishing village and other areas
[2013/12/14 12:01] Lam Erin: now about the plan itself
[2013/12/14 12:03] Lam Erin: I Believe that the Chancellor's plan is viable and can be a good plan....I know that tge guild (not myself) has made her own version of the plan....My recommendation is to ask the chancellor to discuss the plan with Guild to seek a mutually agreeable solution but along the lines that the chancellor set
[2013/12/14 12:03] Lam Erin: done
[2013/12/14 12:03] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Lam
[2013/12/14 12:04] Shep (shep.titian): Ok lets call it a day
[2013/12/14 12:04] Sudane Erato: just to record my agreement with Lam
[2013/12/14 12:04] Tor Karlsvalt: aye, agreed
[2013/12/14 12:04] Shep (shep.titian): We have the next meeting .. we did'nt vote tho
[2013/12/14 12:04] Tor Karlsvalt: and I also think this is a good plan too.
[2013/12/14 12:04] Shep (shep.titian): So Next meeting Dec 17th at 4.30 pm
[2013/12/14 12:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: vote on the next meetin g time , shep ?
[2013/12/14 12:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lets vote on it then
[2013/12/14 12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I second
[2013/12/14 12:05] Shep (shep.titian): Needs a second
[2013/12/14 12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: just did, sorry for being late on the draw
[2013/12/14 12:06] Shep (shep.titian): taps whip
[2013/12/14 12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: I second.
[2013/12/14 12:06] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2013/12/14 12:06] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2013/12/14 12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/14 12:06] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2013/12/14 12:06] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo?
[2013/12/14 12:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: aye.
[2013/12/14 12:07] Shep (shep.titian): ok Propose we adjourn
[2013/12/14 12:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: move we adjourn
[2013/12/14 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yay! and no one is bleeding.
[2013/12/14 12:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: second
[2013/12/14 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2013/12/14 12:07] Shep (shep.titian): vote
[2013/12/14 12:07] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2013/12/14 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: aye