RA Transcript Meeting May 11, 2014

[Rosie Gray]

[2014/05/11 08:38:23] Shep (shep.titian): So the meeting has re-assembled and I call it open
[2014/05/11 08:38:59] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo are you taking your place?
[2014/05/11 08:39:26] Delia Lake: entered chat range (17.89 m).
[2014/05/11 08:39:36] Rosie Gray: hi Delia
[2014/05/11 08:39:45] Lilith Ivory: HI Delia
[2014/05/11 08:39:46] JerryDon Lane: She has a bad connection....working on it
[2014/05/11 08:39:56] Delia Lake: good morning, everyone
[2014/05/11 08:40:07] Widget Whiteberry: /me sips coffee, looks up and waves
[2014/05/11 08:40:11] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Delia
[2014/05/11 08:40:34] JerryDon Lane: She asked me to pass on to you that she is crashing and wants a 7 day vote....LOL
[2014/05/11 08:40:36] Shep (shep.titian): Has anyone heard that Gwyn is coming
[2014/05/11 08:41:06] Rosie Gray: she indicated she could yesterday
[2014/05/11 08:41:21] Lilith Ivory: didn´t she say she might be a little late?
[2014/05/11 08:41:34] Rosie Gray: um, yes
[2014/05/11 08:41:38] Rosie Gray: think so
[2014/05/11 08:41:44] punchinello Philbin: is online.
[2014/05/11 08:42:15] Jesmaine Tzara: is online.
[2014/05/11 08:42:15] Shep (shep.titian): handy as these bills are l;argely hers
[2014/05/11 08:42:29] AbbyRose Abbot: is offline.
[2014/05/11 08:42:29] Rosie Gray: shall I send a notice to the group, Shep?
[2014/05/11 08:42:36] Shep (shep.titian): Asking advice
[2014/05/11 08:43:05] Shep (shep.titian): Do we do the agenda etc as this meeting is an extention?
[2014/05/11 08:43:24] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Please Ropsie
[2014/05/11 08:43:24] Rosie Gray: there is only one item on this Agenda
[2014/05/11 08:43:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I have five mins probably now
[2014/05/11 08:43:38] Rosie Gray: okay, I will
[2014/05/11 08:43:40] Callipygian Christensen: I think it was agreed that overnight was just a long coffee break Shep and you can just continue.
[2014/05/11 08:43:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty calli
[2014/05/11 08:43:58] Shep (shep.titian): Ok Thank you Calli
[2014/05/11 08:44:21] Callipygian Christensen: Sending a notice is still needed though
[2014/05/11 08:44:42] Shep (shep.titian): Well lets give Gwyn some time and move to the referendum issue
[2014/05/11 08:45:07] Catz Jewell Lane (catz.jewell): is offline.
[2014/05/11 08:45:07] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Rosie is doing that
[2014/05/11 08:45:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Please go now. We have qu o rim and she wrote on forums
[2014/05/11 08:45:10] Catz Jewell Lane: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 08:45:45] Shep (shep.titian): You want to talk about a referendum Cleo?
[2014/05/11 08:46:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I move we vote first now to have a referendum question on the ballot the 21st ra
[2014/05/11 08:46:06] Tor Karlsvalt: wrong window earlir
[2014/05/11 08:46:10] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry about that
[2014/05/11 08:46:18] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2014/05/11 08:46:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: aye
[2014/05/11 08:46:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2014/05/11 08:46:31] Rosie Gray: wait, we need to discuss
[2014/05/11 08:46:34] Rosie Gray: before voting
[2014/05/11 08:46:38] Shep (shep.titian): How do the other RA feel?
[2014/05/11 08:46:55] Rosie Gray: I don't think you can vote to have 'a referendum question'
[2014/05/11 08:47:03] Rosie Gray: we need to decide what the question will be
[2014/05/11 08:47:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I move we have the question gwyn put on the forums on then
[2014/05/11 08:47:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: gwyn wrote a nice one
[2014/05/11 08:47:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Oh I am ok with referenda.
[2014/05/11 08:47:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: simple
[2014/05/11 08:47:29] Tor Karlsvalt: She has three
[2014/05/11 08:47:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I'm on my phone and can't get it though. now
[2014/05/11 08:47:33] Rosie Gray: can you post the question here, for the transcript please
[2014/05/11 08:47:38] Tor Karlsvalt: one should be clarified imo
[2014/05/11 08:47:45] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators purchases one or more new regions during the 21st RA term? [oh yes, I'm an expansionist! ]

2. Do you wish that the next region should be an extension of Neufreistadt (i.e. bordering that region)?

3. Do you wish that the process of planning and designing the next region is made through a public contest, open to all citizens for participation?
[2014/05/11 08:47:49] Pat (patroklus.murakami): is online.
[2014/05/11 08:47:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I can't do it from my phone. But gwyn wrote a good one
[2014/05/11 08:48:06] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2014/05/11 08:48:06] Pat: entered chat range (5.24 m).
[2014/05/11 08:48:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I just posted them
[2014/05/11 08:48:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Not mine. Gwyns.
[2014/05/11 08:48:20] Rosie Gray: 1. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators purchases one new region during the 21st RA term?

0
[2014/05/11 08:48:25] Rosie Gray: that's the one I think
[2014/05/11 08:48:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Yes rosie go for it
[2014/05/11 08:48:38] Rosie Gray: Tor if you look down further in the forum
[2014/05/11 08:48:41] Shep (shep.titian): No
[2014/05/11 08:48:42] Rosie Gray: you'll see it
[2014/05/11 08:49:08] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I move that question rosie just posted is on the ballot as a referendum item.
[2014/05/11 08:49:14] Shep (shep.titian): There is talk of a couple of scenic sims to add water
[2014/05/11 08:49:39] Shep (shep.titian): As well as the new NFS
[2014/05/11 08:49:50] Shep (shep.titian): Both will sell well
[2014/05/11 08:50:03] Rosie Gray: we could amend it to read "at least one new region'...
[2014/05/11 08:50:22] Shep (shep.titian): Yes
[2014/05/11 08:50:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: We are asking citizens to say what they want it isn't binding
[2014/05/11 08:50:43] Shep (shep.titian): We don't want to make it singular
[2014/05/11 08:50:56] Rosie Gray: there's not much point in asking a referendum question if you don't intend on following up on it
[2014/05/11 08:50:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Ok I am with that change
[2014/05/11 08:51:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Well it must be a yes or no question. Perhaps we should have two questions.
[2014/05/11 08:51:11] Shep (shep.titian): Nor do I want a contest to design the new sim
[2014/05/11 08:51:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: agreed rosie
[2014/05/11 08:51:17] Ariel Lancaster: entered chat range (18.98 m).
[2014/05/11 08:51:25] Ariel Lancaster: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 08:51:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so if shep doesn't want it do not ask the people. noted.
[2014/05/11 08:51:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Do you wish the CDS to purchase one new region? Do you wish the CDS to purchase two new regions?
[2014/05/11 08:51:53] Ariel Lancaster: entered chat range (19.76 m).
[2014/05/11 08:51:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is online.
[2014/05/11 08:51:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: entered chat range (5.00 m).
[2014/05/11 08:52:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: We can ask up to 5 questions
[2014/05/11 08:52:09] Rosie Gray: hi Gwyn
[2014/05/11 08:52:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Yes or no questions
[2014/05/11 08:52:12] Rosie Gray: hi Ariel
[2014/05/11 08:52:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: amen
[2014/05/11 08:52:24] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn, Hi Ariel
[2014/05/11 08:52:26] Shep (shep.titian): I'm simply saying my personal view .. I am allowed one
[2014/05/11 08:52:30] Ludo Merit: We dcould make scenic sims a separate question from the full sim
[2014/05/11 08:52:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I want a seven day vote I will cast before 130. yes you are shep.
[2014/05/11 08:52:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is very sorry for being in-world so late
[2014/05/11 08:52:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Hi gwyn
[2014/05/11 08:53:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I have to go 7 day vote .. what ever you decide I'm sure will be okay
[2014/05/11 08:53:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyn
[2014/05/11 08:53:25] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Gwyn .. we went to the referendum question
[2014/05/11 08:53:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 5 questions max.
[2014/05/11 08:53:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soooo do we have any questions already? hehe
[2014/05/11 08:53:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Ok I'm going. adiós
[2014/05/11 08:53:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Bye Cleo
[2014/05/11 08:53:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 08:53:48] Widget Whiteberry: /me raises her hand
[2014/05/11 08:53:49] punchinello Philbin: is offline.
[2014/05/11 08:53:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops. And good gbye
[2014/05/11 08:54:00] Tor Karlsvalt: We should ask the citizens if they have any questions to add.
[2014/05/11 08:54:11] Shep (shep.titian): Widget?
[2014/05/11 08:54:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's make a referendum for that! (joking)
[2014/05/11 08:54:19] Widget Whiteberry: ty
[2014/05/11 08:54:42] Callipygian Christensen: Point of order - the motion on the floor is 'will there BE a referendum'..might want to deal with that first?
[2014/05/11 08:54:50] Widget Whiteberry: I'd like the referendum to lead to a survey so we have moe detailed info about what citizens would like
[2014/05/11 08:54:55] Widget Whiteberry: more*
[2014/05/11 08:55:03] Widget Whiteberry: end
[2014/05/11 08:55:04] Tor Karlsvalt: oops
[2014/05/11 08:55:15] Rosie Gray: I've just given Gwyn the first part of the chat so she can catch up
[2014/05/11 08:55:17] Shep (shep.titian): thank you Widget
[2014/05/11 08:55:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you, Rosie!
[2014/05/11 08:55:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Widget too, I like your idea)
[2014/05/11 08:55:38] Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
[2014/05/11 08:55:43] Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Rosie
[2014/05/11 08:56:37] Shep (shep.titian): Never having done a referendum here .. are they complicated to set up?
[2014/05/11 08:56:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I think I caught up
[2014/05/11 08:56:44] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[2014/05/11 08:56:53] Tor Karlsvalt: we had one four years ago.
[2014/05/11 08:57:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As far as I know, no, Shep, but it would be nice to give poor Jon plenty of advance notice,
[2014/05/11 08:57:13] Rosie Gray: they must be yes or no answers, Shep
[2014/05/11 08:57:27] Shep (shep.titian): whispers: Cleo wants it added to the election .. is that possible?
[2014/05/11 08:57:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we already had to postpone the election one day because of Jon's very tight schedule
[2014/05/11 08:57:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[2014/05/11 08:58:03] Tor Karlsvalt: That is how it must be done
[2014/05/11 08:58:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking for myself (my apologies if I'm out of turn), I would say, either we agree *today* to have a referendum, or we should drop the issue
[2014/05/11 08:58:17] Rosie Gray: /me nods in agreement
[2014/05/11 08:58:25] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods
[2014/05/11 08:58:28] Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. do we have agreement that it needs to stand alone?
[2014/05/11 08:58:29] Delia Lake: /me whispers, it would be more than nice to give Jon plenty of advanced notice as if that doesn't happen there will not be additions to the ballot because it will be impossible to program in time...
[2014/05/11 08:58:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also speaking for myself, of course I have absolutely nothing against a referendum by itself. But this doesn't mean I'm jumping up and down with excitement about it
[2014/05/11 08:58:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me totally subscribes to that, Delia.
[2014/05/11 08:58:51] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 08:58:54] :: 'Cleopatra Xigalia' is Offline
[2014/05/11 08:59:00] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand too
[2014/05/11 08:59:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me just asks if 'it needs to stand alone' means 'the question about asking for one new region has to stand alone'?
[2014/05/11 08:59:41] Shep (shep.titian): Tor
[2014/05/11 08:59:52] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[2014/05/11 09:00:19] Tor Karlsvalt: As the law reads I believe the referendum must be part of the regular election.
[2014/05/11 09:00:29] Tor Karlsvalt: So it must be added to the ballot by Jon.
[2014/05/11 09:00:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* in agreement.
[2014/05/11 09:00:33] Tor Karlsvalt: done.
[2014/05/11 09:00:55] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:00:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As far as I know, that's exactly the only way we can have referenda in the CDS, Tor.
[2014/05/11 09:01:06] Aorin Benoir: is offline.
[2014/05/11 09:01:09] Rosie Gray: thank you Shep
[2014/05/11 09:01:46] Rosie Gray: I have no problem with this referendum question, and I really like the idea of a follow-up more detailed survey
[2014/05/11 09:02:00] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods
[2014/05/11 09:02:01] Shep (shep.titian): OK
[2014/05/11 09:02:20] Shep (shep.titian): Does our forum not have the facility?
[2014/05/11 09:02:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It can create polls, yes!
[2014/05/11 09:02:38] Rosie Gray: but just to clarify, if we ask the question 1. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators purchases one new region during the 21st RA term?
[2014/05/11 09:02:54] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2014/05/11 09:03:08] Rosie Gray: is this indicating that we intend for only 1 sim... that's what it sounds like to me
[2014/05/11 09:03:09] Shep (shep.titian): I ran a forum a few years ago .. it had referendum in admin as an option
[2014/05/11 09:03:10] Callipygian Christensen: and waves it
[2014/05/11 09:03:14] Tor Karlsvalt: /me glances at the Dean.
[2014/05/11 09:03:30] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2014/05/11 09:03:43] Rosie Gray: so I think that amending the question to 'at least one' would broaden the scope enough
[2014/05/11 09:03:47] Rosie Gray: done
[2014/05/11 09:03:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me claps!
[2014/05/11 09:04:02] Widget Whiteberry: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:04:02] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2014/05/11 09:04:17] Callipygian Christensen: The motion on the floor is whether or not to have a referendum. Cleo is no longer here to agree to amend it to add questions. Please deal with that by voting then move on with questions?
[2014/05/11 09:04:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2014/05/11 09:04:38] Tor Karlsvalt: /me agrees
[2014/05/11 09:04:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hear, hear, Calli. Motion to have a referendum at the same time as the election for the 21st term.
[2014/05/11 09:04:58] Spider22997 Upshaw: is online.
[2014/05/11 09:04:58] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry pre-empting the storm
[2014/05/11 09:04:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There
[2014/05/11 09:05:10] Rosie Gray: actually there isn't even a motion
[2014/05/11 09:05:10] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2014/05/11 09:05:14] Rosie Gray: it was an item on the agenda
[2014/05/11 09:05:20] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2014/05/11 09:05:23] Callipygian Christensen: The motion is already in and seconded Gwyn lol..just needs a vote
[2014/05/11 09:05:23] Rosie Gray: okay... sorry... thanks
[2014/05/11 09:05:24] Tor Karlsvalt: I think there was a motion early.
[2014/05/11 09:05:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is, Rosie! — I vote aye
[2014/05/11 09:05:34] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2014/05/11 09:05:36] Shep (shep.titian): with apologies to Jon Aye
[2014/05/11 09:05:37] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/05/11 09:05:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Shep)
[2014/05/11 09:05:57] Tor Karlsvalt: /me loves handing out jobs.
[2014/05/11 09:06:05] Shep (shep.titian): Ok we are passed
[2014/05/11 09:06:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2014/05/11 09:06:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is knowsn of doing the same, Tor
[2014/05/11 09:06:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *known even
[2014/05/11 09:06:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me raises hand too
[2014/05/11 09:06:41] Shep (shep.titian): Ok did you have things left from yesterday Gwyn?
[2014/05/11 09:06:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the referendum question I think?
[2014/05/11 09:07:23] Shep (shep.titian): ok folks ...
[2014/05/11 09:07:24] Tor Karlsvalt: So do we still have a motion on the first Question?
[2014/05/11 09:07:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do? With Rosie's proposed amendment?
[2014/05/11 09:07:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, i second it.
[2014/05/11 09:07:51] Widget Whiteberry: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:07:59] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:08:02] Shep (shep.titian): Widget
[2014/05/11 09:08:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, I keep my hand raised to speak later
[2014/05/11 09:08:34] Shep (shep.titian): Widget was first Gwyn
[2014/05/11 09:08:34] Spider22997 Upshaw: entered chat range (19.26 m).
[2014/05/11 09:08:36] Widget Whiteberry: How about introducing survey idea in a question?
[2014/05/11 09:08:42] Widget Whiteberry: done
[2014/05/11 09:08:55] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods
[2014/05/11 09:09:13] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:09:26] Rosie Gray: /me notes her hand is still in the air
[2014/05/11 09:09:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2014/05/11 09:09:32] Puma Kawanishi: is online.
[2014/05/11 09:09:37] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:09:44] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/05/11 09:09:50] Shep (shep.titian): Then Gwyn
[2014/05/11 09:10:19] Rosie Gray: so now that the motion is passed to have a referendum question, can we have the motion on what the referendum question will be?
[2014/05/11 09:10:31] Rosie Gray: done
[2014/05/11 09:10:34] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2014/05/11 09:11:31] Gryll Jester: is online.
[2014/05/11 09:12:08] Rosie Gray: /me mutters something about not wanting to take all day on this
[2014/05/11 09:12:11] Shep (shep.titian): Would you like to see CDS expand by purchasing between one and three sims to finish NFS and give us two water sims
[2014/05/11 09:12:28] Rosie Gray: I think that's too detailed Shep
[2014/05/11 09:12:33] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah
[2014/05/11 09:12:44] Shep (shep.titian): I think it needs to be
[2014/05/11 09:13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me mutters that she will probably leave in about 45 minutes anyway
[2014/05/11 09:13:15] Trebor Warcliffe: That's asking for one answer to multiple questions. Go with Rosies.
[2014/05/11 09:13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: /me still has a had raised?
[2014/05/11 09:13:53] Shep (shep.titian): Tor
[2014/05/11 09:14:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Perhaps this is how it could read?
[2014/05/11 09:14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me too, I was supposed to be after Widget, but Tor first
[2014/05/11 09:14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Would you like the CDS to add a full region west of NFS and South of Monastery?
[2014/05/11 09:14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry gwyn, I am done
[2014/05/11 09:14:24] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry .. will stop trying to join in hahaha
[2014/05/11 09:14:35] Ludo Merit: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:14:58] Pat: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 09:14:58] Shep (shep.titian): Thats even more detailed than mine!!
[2014/05/11 09:15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Shep.... anyway, Widget was before me
[2014/05/11 09:15:31] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Widget
[2014/05/11 09:16:15] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:16:46] Shep (shep.titian): rosie
[2014/05/11 09:17:00] Widget Whiteberry: I'd like us to use the ref to establish a survey - in the forums - to discover useful info
[2014/05/11 09:17:10] Shep (shep.titian): oop should have been Gwyn
[2014/05/11 09:17:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no Widget was first, that was correct)
[2014/05/11 09:18:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that it, Widget?
[2014/05/11 09:18:13] Widget Whiteberry: I'm done, yes, ty
[2014/05/11 09:18:13] Shep (shep.titian): Thx Widget ... what would you want answered
[2014/05/11 09:19:21] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:19:23] Shep (shep.titian): ok gwyn then Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:19:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks. Whew.
[2014/05/11 09:19:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like:
1) The idea of asking for 'at least one' region;
2) Widget's idea of asking if people wish to have a survey about
expectations regarding the next region(s);
3) Asking if the citizens prefer a public contest or if they're fine in
simply handing it over to the Executive.

As for question 1, I move that we approve Rosie's:

1. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators purchases
at least one new region during the 21st RA term?

As for defining a precise place for the region, I would prefer a public
contest, and, as such, I will not vote on a question that defines the
precise region.

As for question 2, a suggestion (just thought right now, feel free to
change):

2. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators polls all
citizens via a survey to get feedback about the expectations for the new
region?

And finally:

3. Do you wish that the planning of the next region is made via a public
contest, open to all citizens for participation, and voted by all?
[2014/05/11 09:19:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all, thanks. Done.
[2014/05/11 09:20:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Note: "I move that we approve Rosie's:

1. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators purchases
at least one new region during the 21st RA term?
"
[2014/05/11 09:20:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was a motion. Yes?
[2014/05/11 09:20:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me cackles evilly, trying to spead up things
[2014/05/11 09:20:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *speed even
[2014/05/11 09:21:17] JerryDon Lane: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 09:21:37] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods in agreement
[2014/05/11 09:21:43] Shep (shep.titian): second
[2014/05/11 09:21:48] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2014/05/11 09:21:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Shep
[2014/05/11 09:21:51] Shep (shep.titian): vote
[2014/05/11 09:21:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and Tor... lol
[2014/05/11 09:21:55] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2014/05/11 09:21:56] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2014/05/11 09:21:59] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/05/11 09:22:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, aye, to make it simple
[2014/05/11 09:22:19] Shep (shep.titian): good passed
[2014/05/11 09:22:24] Rosie Gray: although noting that I did have something else to add
[2014/05/11 09:22:26] Rosie Gray: but never mind
[2014/05/11 09:22:35] Delia Lake: /me raises her hand
[2014/05/11 09:22:54] Shep (shep.titian): its ;loose enough to cover most things
[2014/05/11 09:23:01] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah
[2014/05/11 09:23:06] Rosie Gray: that's the idea
[2014/05/11 09:23:22] Shep (shep.titian): I'm against a competition
[2014/05/11 09:23:32] Tor Karlsvalt: and we can follow the spirit of the questions even if the details change a bit.
[2014/05/11 09:24:01] Tor Karlsvalt: a competition did ok with AM I think
[2014/05/11 09:24:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, my motion was just for question 1
[2014/05/11 09:24:18] Ludo Merit: /me still has her hand raised
[2014/05/11 09:24:19] Tor Karlsvalt: I seem to remember an old 3D map
[2014/05/11 09:24:27] Shep (shep.titian): the competitions we've held just waste time and the same three people join in
[2014/05/11 09:24:27] Tor Karlsvalt: oh?
[2014/05/11 09:24:30] Tor Karlsvalt: shoot
[2014/05/11 09:24:31] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2014/05/11 09:24:31] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2014/05/11 09:24:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me grins
[2014/05/11 09:24:41] Shep (shep.titian): in fact one has left
[2014/05/11 09:24:49] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2014/05/11 09:24:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We haven't discussed any of the others! I just wanted to give some suggestions
[2014/05/11 09:25:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I'll hush now
[2014/05/11 09:25:08] Callipygian Christensen: Ludo was before me
[2014/05/11 09:25:27] Delia Lake: /me ???? is wondering if Ludo's hand and her own are invisible
[2014/05/11 09:25:36] Callipygian Christensen: oh..and Delia too
[2014/05/11 09:26:05] Shep (shep.titian): Delia tyhen Ludo
[2014/05/11 09:26:23] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry my son needed me
[2014/05/11 09:26:49] Delia Lake: I think that Gwyn's Q#2 is problematic as worded. "2. Do you wish that the Confederation of the Democratic Simulators polls all
citizens via a survey to get feedback about the expectations for the new
region?"
[2014/05/11 09:27:20] Delia Lake: it could be interpreted to mean that if not all citizens participate in the survey then the results are not valid
[2014/05/11 09:27:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I think so too! I admitted that it needed rewording!)
[2014/05/11 09:27:44] Delia Lake: done
[2014/05/11 09:27:58] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:27:59] Io (io.bechir): is online.
[2014/05/11 09:28:17] Shep (shep.titian): Ludo
[2014/05/11 09:28:33] Shep (shep.titian): then Gwyn then Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:28:45] Io (io.bechir): is offline.
[2014/05/11 09:30:01] Ludo Merit: On question three. If the planning is not made by a contest, it gets made by whom? The executive branch? Meaning the Chancellor? Meaning whoever the chancellor asks to do it? I don't object to that, I just want to be sure I understand the alternative correctly.
[2014/05/11 09:30:21] Ariel Lancaster: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 09:30:35] Daniel Sosa: is online.
[2014/05/11 09:30:38] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:30:47] Ludo Merit: /me waits for someone to answer the question
[2014/05/11 09:31:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure...
[2014/05/11 09:31:08] Shep (shep.titian): Yes it would be an executive decision
[2014/05/11 09:31:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it's in-theme development, the Executive can do everything.
[2014/05/11 09:31:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They can outsource it to any person they wish, too
[2014/05/11 09:31:27] Ludo Merit: Thank you.
[2014/05/11 09:31:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's pretty clear that this is 'standard procedure'. Doing a contest is an 'exception', specially if we wish a different theme.
[2014/05/11 09:31:52] Tor Karlsvalt: or guild or whomever.
[2014/05/11 09:32:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, guild, whomever. The executive decides!
[2014/05/11 09:32:12] Ludo Merit: Done
[2014/05/11 09:32:28] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Ludo
[2014/05/11 09:32:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I think I was next
[2014/05/11 09:32:40] Shep (shep.titian): yes gwyun
[2014/05/11 09:32:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
[2014/05/11 09:33:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly to answer Delia: I think Widget's suggestion is great, but I agree that this question is not well formulated.
[2014/05/11 09:33:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Maybe Widget can suggest a better one.
[2014/05/11 09:33:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the public contest,
[2014/05/11 09:33:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *personally* would prefer a public contest. Personally!
[2014/05/11 09:33:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'm willing to drop that question from the referendum,
[2014/05/11 09:33:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I can get enough assurance that at least the possibility for a contest *can* be considered.
[2014/05/11 09:34:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not — e.g. if we decide here, 'no contest', then I would like to ask for a referendum, to see if that's what the citizens REALLY want.
[2014/05/11 09:34:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But — I also agree that it could simply be part of the platforms of the candidates., Some might wish for a contest,
[2014/05/11 09:34:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: others not,
[2014/05/11 09:35:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and people will elect tehir representatives anyway,
[2014/05/11 09:35:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which would make asking that in a referendum a bit redundant,
[2014/05/11 09:35:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's it., Done
[2014/05/11 09:35:39] Widget Whiteberry: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:35:44] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:35:48] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/05/11 09:35:54] Delia Lake: /me raises her hand
[2014/05/11 09:36:11] Shep (shep.titian): Widget after Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:36:12] Rosie Gray: I'd just like to point out that the contest would be for sim theme/design, not for execution
[2014/05/11 09:36:20] Rosie Gray: at least that's how I would interpret it
[2014/05/11 09:36:41] Rosie Gray: so that someone who is not a builder could still come up with a pretty interesting theme and design in theory
[2014/05/11 09:36:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (aha! thanks! yes, indeed, execution would be, as always, the decision of the Executive)
[2014/05/11 09:36:56] Rosie Gray: I'm not against a competition
[2014/05/11 09:37:27] Rosie Gray: but what I really wanted to say, was that I don't think we need to have a question asking if people want a survey on the referendum
[2014/05/11 09:38:02] Rosie Gray: the RA or the Executive can create a survey, surely that is a part of their function if so choosing
[2014/05/11 09:38:14] Rosie Gray: and I really like the idea of a well done survey
[2014/05/11 09:38:26] Rosie Gray: as some of you might remember, I did a very detailed survey some years ago
[2014/05/11 09:38:36] Rosie Gray: for just that purpose,
[2014/05/11 09:38:46] Widget Whiteberry: /me nods
[2014/05/11 09:38:50] Daniel Sosa: is offline.
[2014/05/11 09:38:50] Shep (shep.titian): Before my time
[2014/05/11 09:38:57] Rosie Gray: unfortunately it wasn't that well answered (not everyone participated)
[2014/05/11 09:39:02] Rosie Gray: but I think it was valuable
[2014/05/11 09:39:05] Rosie Gray: done
[2014/05/11 09:39:36] Shep (shep.titian): Widget then Delia
[2014/05/11 09:39:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me raises her hand after Widget and Delia
[2014/05/11 09:39:47] Widget Whiteberry: /me passes
[2014/05/11 09:39:58] Shep (shep.titian): ok Delia
[2014/05/11 09:40:17] Callipygian Christensen: /me waves her hand,, since pointing out that Ludo and Delia were first didn't mean 'I dont want to speak'
[2014/05/11 09:40:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry
[2014/05/11 09:40:47] Rosie Gray: /me smiles at Calli
[2014/05/11 09:40:53] Delia Lake: I am more than a little uneasy about having the decision on the theme of the sim and the subsequent design and execution of that design rest solely with the Chancellorship.
[2014/05/11 09:40:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can go before me, Calli
[2014/05/11 09:41:02] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli .. after Delia if you will then Gwyn
[2014/05/11 09:41:03] Delia Lake: I like the idea of having a survey
[2014/05/11 09:41:26] Delia Lake: I also like the idea of having some form of competition as they both encourage citizen participation
[2014/05/11 09:41:27] Shep (shep.titian): lol
[2014/05/11 09:42:32] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:42:48] Delia Lake: but the thought that any Chancellor could make this kind of important decision alone is worrisome to me. neither surveys nor contests are binding. at least in the RA citizens get to express opinions and the votes of the RA are public
[2014/05/11 09:42:55] Shep (shep.titian): That was a delayed lol .. not at you Delia
[2014/05/11 09:43:07] Delia Lake: not so with decisions of Chancellors
[2014/05/11 09:43:08] Rosie Gray: here here, Delia
[2014/05/11 09:43:22] Soro (soro.dagostino): /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:43:42] Delia Lake: I think to place all that power solely in the Executive, with the Chancellor would be a big mistake
[2014/05/11 09:43:46] Delia Lake: done
[2014/05/11 09:44:15] Shep (shep.titian): Gwyn then Soro
[2014/05/11 09:44:17] Second Life: Caverna Obscura Kiosk owned by secondlife:///app/agent/d0f35343-84ab-4 ... 3ba9/about gave you 'Caverna Obscura @ Fantasy Gacha Carnival' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alligator%20Bayou/40/68/402 ).
[2014/05/11 09:44:24] Tor Karlsvalt: /me waives
[2014/05/11 09:44:47] Tor Karlsvalt: /me confident this time he was in the right window.
[2014/05/11 09:44:53] Shep (shep.titian): No Gwyn .. Topr then Soro
[2014/05/11 09:44:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll let Calli talk before me, if you don't mind, Shep
[2014/05/11 09:45:06] Callipygian Christensen: thank you !- one of the worst things you can do in encouraging participation is to ask opinions then ignore them - referendums fall into that category. If yo ask about a survey, that will need to be done *before* you can announce a contest, since the survey results will define the parameters of the contest. No problem, if that is what you *want* to create as the steps and the time it will take, but if not - might consider approaching it differently.
[2014/05/11 09:45:07] Shep (shep.titian): Yes fine
[2014/05/11 09:45:09] Soro (soro.dagostino): Yield.
[2014/05/11 09:45:12] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2014/05/11 09:46:18] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2014/05/11 09:46:18] Callipygian Christensen: Done for now
[2014/05/11 09:46:29] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2014/05/11 09:46:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks Calli!
[2014/05/11 09:46:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, my turn lol
[2014/05/11 09:46:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would also like to express that my understanding is the same as Rosie's.
If you read my proposed bill for adding a new region, where I suggest that
there is a public contest, I suggest that participants OPTIONALLY include
building fees, if any, IF and only IF they are able to provide labour as
well. Because, like Rosie, if we have a public contest, I certainly do not
want to exclude anyone to give their ideas — and have others vote upon them
— even if they aren't builders.

The implications is that we need safeguards here. This is what I proposed on
my bill: that there is a set of specifications first (it makes all the sense
to ask them on a survey, validated by Chancellor & Treasurer). Then
participants know what they're supposed to present. Next, the Executive
validates the proposal, to see if it makes sense and is not absurd.

Finally, the proposals that are valid get voted by everybody.

Then we come to the execution bits. Here things are clearer: the Executive
decides who builds the
[2014/05/11 09:46:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: proposed theme. If the winner has presented a budget
(meaning: if they can build), then the Executive can hire them (assuming
they cannot find something cheaper, or having better quality for the same
price, etc — that's the Executive's choice). The RA votes upon the budget
for teh new region, and things get started afterwards.

Now, regarding Delia's concerns... I also would rather prefer a bit more
citizenship participation, which means having a public contest. However, I'm
not sure that we really, really, really need a referendum for that. It could
simply be part of the campaigns from the candidates.
[2014/05/11 09:46:49] Shep (shep.titian): Gwyn .. then Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:46:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: DOne
[2014/05/11 09:47:08] Tor Karlsvalt: /me needs bigger hands.
[2014/05/11 09:47:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me grins
[2014/05/11 09:47:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is an octopus iRL
[2014/05/11 09:47:55] Tor Karlsvalt: OK goes for it.
[2014/05/11 09:48:11] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we can leave the ref as one question.
[2014/05/11 09:48:15] :: 'Bagheera Kristan' is Offline
[2014/05/11 09:48:28] Tor Karlsvalt: The other issues should be the first order of busines for the new RA.
[2014/05/11 09:48:33] Soro (soro.dagostino): /me before I get lost in the words of the day, [9:44:15 AM] Joseph C. Melino: I agree with Delia.
[2014/05/11 09:48:46] Tor Karlsvalt: A survey is an excellent idea and I would prefer one.
[2014/05/11 09:49:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I also know RA will establish the theme and control the the theme via the budget and authorization of the purchase of any region.
[2014/05/11 09:49:28] Ludo Merit: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 09:49:37] Ludo Merit: entered chat range (18.68 m).
[2014/05/11 09:49:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[2014/05/11 09:49:48] Tor Karlsvalt: I do not think the exec will be without control
[2014/05/11 09:49:54] Shep (shep.titian): Ok
[2014/05/11 09:50:10] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2014/05/11 09:50:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Certainly it is usually a bad situation to let one view control everything.
[2014/05/11 09:50:18] Tor Karlsvalt: done.
[2014/05/11 09:50:26] Shep (shep.titian): I was just rem,embering the building comp we had
[2014/05/11 09:50:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Tor.
[2014/05/11 09:51:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me certainly agrees totally with Tor and proposes that we leave the referendum at one question and move to adjourn lol
[2014/05/11 09:51:29] Shep (shep.titian): Did you raise a hand Rosie?
[2014/05/11 09:51:32] Rosie Gray: yes
[2014/05/11 09:51:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes she did!
[2014/05/11 09:51:35] Tor Karlsvalt: hear! hear! Gwyn.
[2014/05/11 09:51:48] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:51:48] Tor Karlsvalt: stomps is feet.
[2014/05/11 09:52:02] Rosie Gray: I was just going to reiterate that we do not put any more questions on the referendum
[2014/05/11 09:52:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh goodie! Bravo Rosie
[2014/05/11 09:52:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me claps
[2014/05/11 09:52:37] Rosie Gray: once the referendum is over, if people want a new sim or sims
[2014/05/11 09:52:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Brava actually lol
[2014/05/11 09:52:40] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2014/05/11 09:52:45] Shep (shep.titian): ok folks next meeting or done for this term?
[2014/05/11 09:52:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Monkeys are happy
[2014/05/11 09:52:49] Rosie Gray: a survey can be done quite quickly
[2014/05/11 09:53:00] Malakyte Thorne: is online.
[2014/05/11 09:53:07] Rosie Gray: Widget has indicated she would draft one up
[2014/05/11 09:53:15] Tor Karlsvalt: oooo
[2014/05/11 09:53:19] Rosie Gray: so I don't think we need to worry too much about timing
[2014/05/11 09:53:24] Widget Whiteberry: with input and help
[2014/05/11 09:53:27] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2014/05/11 09:53:32] Tor Karlsvalt: a brave person to indicate they will volunteer.
[2014/05/11 09:53:40] Rosie Gray: done
[2014/05/11 09:53:40] Widget Whiteberry: /me wouldn't dare do this without
[2014/05/11 09:53:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me shrinkwraps her stamp of approval and offers it to Rosie, Tor and Widget
[2014/05/11 09:53:58] Rosie Gray: lol
[2014/05/11 09:54:15] Ludo Merit: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 09:54:42] Shep (shep.titian): Did no one notice
[2014/05/11 09:54:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sooooooo taking into account the last words of my fellow citizens,
[2014/05/11 09:54:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I move to adjourn! lol
[2014/05/11 09:54:50] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2014/05/11 09:55:06] Shep (shep.titian): Funny thought that was my job
[2014/05/11 09:55:09] Trebor Warcliffe: left chat range.
[2014/05/11 09:55:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any RA member can move to adjourn, i think! But it's you who calls the vote, Shep
[2014/05/11 09:55:32] Tor Karlsvalt: /me wonders what he has for lunch.
[2014/05/11 09:55:41] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2014/05/11 09:55:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye!
[2014/05/11 09:55:46] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2014/05/11 09:55:52] Tor Karlsvalt: nay, I mean aye.
[2014/05/11 09:55:56] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2014/05/11 09:55:58] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2014/05/11 09:56:01] Rosie Gray: lol
[2014/05/11 09:56:01] Rosie Gray: aye