[12:00] Shep (shep.titian): Eyes down .. calling this meeting to order
[12:01] Shep (shep.titian): The first thing under Administrative business is the happy occasion of swearing in Em to join the RA
[12:01] Sudane Erato: yay!
[12:01] Shep (shep.titian): Lil if you could please
[12:01] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: are you ready EM?
[12:02] Naftali Torok: back
[12:02] Brooke (brooke.brandenburg): wb
[12:02] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Yes. Here goes:
[12:02] Naftali Torok: waves , hello Sudane
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: The affirmation of office is a public declaration that in the office to which you have been duly elected, you will solemnly affirm to uphold the Constitution of the CDS and take the duties of the RA seriously
so please if you would, insert your own name into the RA affirmation and read the text into the local chat:
[12:02] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): back
[12:02] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Hi, Sudane; glad you were able to make it 
[12:02] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): I, Em Warden, having been "elected" as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators,
[12:02] Lilith Ivory: lol you were faster than me 
[12:02] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): I, Em Warden, having been "elected" as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators,
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: thank you for stepping in EL and congrats
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: I, .... , having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: that´s what you need to say
[12:03] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Sorry, something happened... I'll continue in a second
[12:04] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators,
[12:04] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:04] Shep (shep.titian): Congrats Em
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: thank you EM
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: Congrats
[12:04] Tanoujin Milestone: applause
[12:04] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE
[12:04] Brooke (brooke.brandenburg): bravo!
[12:04] Sudane Erato: yay!
[12:05] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): \o/ \o/ \o/
[12:05] Shep (shep.titian): And welcome on board
[12:05] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Thank you all for your trust
[12:05] Aedan (aedan.charron): thank you Em
[12:05] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Glad to have you back, Em
[12:05] Rosie Gray: ··•°•··..☺ Applauds! ☺ ..··•°•··..
[12:05] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli
[12:05] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Thanks very much Han
[12:05] Shep (shep.titian): Ok next business Nolligan requiests a seven day vote
[12:06] Shep (shep.titian): Next is review and approve agenda .. I move we accept the agenda
[12:06] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): seconded
[12:07] Shep (shep.titian): vote
[12:07] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): aye
[12:07] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[12:07] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[12:07] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Aye
[12:07] Shep (shep.titian): Carried thank you
[12:07] Naftali Torok: grrr crashed
[12:07] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): wb
[12:07] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): wb Naftali
[12:07] Shep (shep.titian): Ok review of previous minutes .. has everyone on the team read them?
[12:08] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): YeSaH!
[12:08] Tanoujin Milestone: yes
[12:08] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): yes
[12:08] Tanoujin Milestone: I move we approve the minutes
[12:08] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): seconded
[12:08] Shep (shep.titian): I move we approve the minutes from the last meeting
[12:08] Shep (shep.titian): oop withdraw
[12:08] Shep (shep.titian): vote
[12:09] Tanoujin Milestone: 
[12:09] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[12:09] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[12:09] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): aye
[12:09] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): aye
[12:09] Shep (shep.titian): carried
[12:09] Shep (shep.titian): Executative report
[12:09] Tanoujin Milestone: the agenda, Shep
[12:09] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie do you wish to speak?
[12:10] Shep (shep.titian): Tan?
[12:10] Tanoujin Milestone: approve the agenda?
[12:10] Rosie Gray: what are you on?
[12:10] Shep (shep.titian): We did already
[12:10] Tanoujin Milestone: excuse me
[12:10] Tanoujin Milestone: go on then
[12:10] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): we're at the executive report
[12:10] Tanoujin Milestone: i am sorry
[12:10] Rosie Gray: ah, okay
[12:10] Shep (shep.titian): ok ... Rosie it's exec report time lol
[12:11] Rosie Gray: sorry I haven't had any time to write up anything official
[12:11] Rosie Gray: let's see
[12:11] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): No problem Tan
[12:11] Rosie Gray: I've extended the billboard ad at the Shelter for another 4 weeks
[12:12] Rosie Gray: and am working on having a
[12:12] Shep (shep.titian): Has that given us any citizens yet?
[12:12] Rosie Gray: sorry one moment
[12:12] Rosie Gray: working on having the carnival this month
[12:13] Shep (shep.titian): fun
[12:13] Pip Torok: i have a concern mme chair
[12:13] Rosie Gray: If anyone is interested in helping with that, I would love to have your help!
[12:13] Shep (shep.titian): In a moment Pip
[12:13] Rosie Gray: I can't think of anything else at the moment, but if anyone has any questions I'll do my best to answer them
[12:14] Shep (shep.titian): Ok thank you Rosie
[12:15] Shep (shep.titian): Citizens concerns .. Pip?
[12:15] Pip Torok: yes ... sorry rosie btw
[12:15] Delia Lake: yes citizen concern
[12:15] Delia Lake: I believe I'm first
[12:16] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): YeSaH!
[12:16] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Delia .. did'nt know where you wanted to speak
[12:16] Shep (shep.titian): Pip can Delia go ahead
[12:16] Delia Lake: I would like to address 2 things. First I'd like to address the Law Review
[12:17] Delia Lake: the RA may establish a Law Review Commission if they wish but the Law Review Citizens Initiative --what people have come to think of as Law Review--will continue exist and operate as it has been. This Law Review is a self-selecting group of interested citizens. Anyone can join or leave at any time. The group operates like a cross between Wikipedia and a book club where there is no formal structure or reporting and people contribute what they can when they can. When there is consensus that an issue is important enough and/or far enough along to merit public notice and input, we've been posting to the Forum, and will continue to do so. The RA may establish any commissions it sees fit but has no authority to co-opt any citizen initiative.
[12:17] Pip Torok: we in the AMUA group are having problems with installing videos screening eg Youtube in our establishments ... may we request any help citizens cd offer us (we suspect the probs are permission-based
[12:17] Pip Torok: its experts we need !!
[12:17] Pip Torok: done
[12:18] Delia Lake: Pip, I didn't announce done yet
[12:18] Pip Torok: sorry
[12:20] Delia Lake: anyway, I think I've made the point regarding the Law Review Citizens Initiative. That group cannot be turned into a commission of the RA but if it wishes it can establish a law review commission or any other kind of commission.
[12:20] Shep (shep.titian): DElia ... the only reason that the law review is on the agenda is because it was flagged as being a commission and apparently all ommissions must answer to the RA .. despite mysel;f Nolligan and Rosie looking for the law that states that with no result
[12:21] Delia Lake: the second point I'd like to make is regarding the LL region tier grandfathering but I'd like to address that later in the agenda when it comes up.
[12:21] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): To be supported officially (eg a subforum on our forum) requires some sort of govermental (RA) cooperation, doesn't it?
[12:21] Shep (shep.titian): Sure
[12:21] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): A book club doesn't have a subforum on the forum, after all
[12:22] Naftali Torok: mumbles...and what about a grandmothers tier.....lol
[12:22] Sudane Erato: the Guild does
[12:22] Callipygian Christensen: It could if it wanted Hannah
[12:22] Shep (shep.titian): I think if the team agrees I'll table the Law review commission .. until I can talk with Nolli ... I move to table the item
[12:23] Delia Lake: as I said, the RA can establish a commission but the group that has been known as Law Review is not and never was a commission. That group will continue as is. and whether or not it has a subforum. it's nice to have as an organizing function for people interested in news but not essential to the functioning of the group
[12:23] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): I seconf the tabling
[12:23] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): second
[12:23] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[12:23] Delia Lake: done for now but would like a turn again when tier grandfathering comes up
[12:23] Shep (shep.titian): Aye
[12:23] Widget Whiteberry: Law Review Citizens' Initiative is on the Forums
[12:23] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): aye
[12:23] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): abstain
[12:23] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[12:24] Shep (shep.titian): Carried ... we'll come back to that
[12:24] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Forum law says "At his or her discretion, the Dean may create additional Forums, restricted or unrestricted, for NGOs, working Commissions, special events etc."
[12:24] Tanoujin Milestone: thank you Coop
[12:25] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Cool, thanks Coop
[12:25] Shep (shep.titian): Ok Pip[ .. much as I sympathise about your youtube needs I don't think the RA can legislate about it .. sorry
[12:25] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Maybe the commission in question should be regarded as a NGO
[12:25] Shep (shep.titian): But if anyone out there could help Pip .. please do
[12:25] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I took it as a support request, though apart from making some sort of announcement, I'm not sure how we can support it
[12:27] Shep (shep.titian): RA members concerns
[12:27] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Perhaps you could make a Forum post about your need for support, Pip?
[12:27] Pip Torok: shall do Mme Cjair
[12:28] Shep (shep.titian): No RA concerns .. ok
[12:28] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Not from me
[12:28] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Nooooooo!
[12:28] Shep (shep.titian): cool
[12:28] Shep (shep.titian): ok no old business
[12:29] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held) clears my throat and nods at the speaker list
[12:29] Shep (shep.titian): 5a) already tabled .. so .. 5b) Grandfathering sims
[12:29] Shep (shep.titian): Delia?
[12:31] Delia Lake: yes
[12:31] Shep (shep.titian): You asked to speak?
[12:31] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Are you typing, Delia?
[12:31] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I'm sorry I have to interrupt; widget had a question for the chancellor but widget was never called
[12:31] Delia Lake: even at the grandfathered LL tier of $195, CN and Friedsee are below viability, yes?
so grandfathering all the regions that are not now in that state would alleviate the overall estate shortfall but not solve the CN and Friedsee problems. so, where's the marketing plan, the new citizen welcoming plan and citizen engagement plan to mitigate these problems? Absent those does it really make sense to keep these regions going as they currently are?
[12:33] Delia Lake: I am suggesting that the investigation into grandfathering regions be comprehensive and include more than just having the estate break even overall in the short term
[12:34] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Delia; it makes sense to lower the price on those regions, initiate those programs while paying a lower amount of tier. This is the first time since I started that thread/discussion that at least two of those were mentioned. Lower costs first; then begin those measures....that' is what I would propose.
[12:34] Delia Lake: and that the RA present an overall plan to the citizenry before taking this step be it yes or no
[12:35] Delia Lake: my understanding is that there is a 6 mos payback per region if the RA would act this month. there are still a few weeks left in this month
[12:36] Tanoujin Milestone: I would prefer to have it the other way round. Like Han said, first we cut our expenses, then try to reach a consensus how to develop our regions
[12:36] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): You're talking about proposing, outlining, and getting consensus on three different initiatives; all of them should be worked out, but it's not realistic to think that with the traditional pace of action in the CDS that we can get even one ...much less three... done between now and April 30th
[12:36] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): We straight up don't move that fast.
[12:37] Shep (shep.titian): I think if we paid lower tier it gives us more freedom to bring in these other measures .. but to be frank it takes more than the RA to welcome new citizens
[12:37] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Yep, pay the lower tier gives us time to flesh out a plan.
[12:38] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): But will that mean lower tier for the people?
[12:38] Widget Whiteberry: Can't Coop
[12:38] Delia Lake: lower tier in effect does not come into play until october as we are fronting the tier now for 6 mos out
[12:38] Sudane Erato: FDS pays tier on the 3rd, AM on the 22nd and LA on the 27th
[12:39] Rosie Gray nods
[12:39] Shep (shep.titian): The first plan should be how to get people here .. no point in a welcoming committee .. if we have no one to welcome
[12:39] Delia Lake: ty Sudane
[12:39] Widget Whiteberry: CN & FDS bring in less than $195
[12:39] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Sudane...correct me if I'm wrong, but the lower fees for our regions comes into effect immediately, doesn't it?
[12:39] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): if we accept the offer, that is
[12:39] Sudane Erato: yes
[12:40] Delia Lake: so we are already past the April date for Friedsee and have a few more weeks before we need to make a decision on AM and LA
[12:40] Sudane Erato: tier date stays the same... reclassification is immediate
[12:40] Delia Lake: I said effective tier
[12:40] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): If we lower rents, we end up back in the red just the same as if we did nothing at all. Taking this offer allows us to be viable, for longer.
[12:40] Shep (shep.titian): We could regard the charge as a single payment .. not something that has to be replaced
[12:40] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Thanks, Delia; I see what you mean.
[12:41] Delia Lake: yes the rate would be lower but we would have fronted the difference for 6 mos out by paying the $600
[12:41] Sudane Erato: the 1800 is from the reserves... not from current revenue... I'm sorry, but we must make that distinction
[12:41] Shep (shep.titian): But that reduction is forever
[12:42] Widget Whiteberry nods
[12:42] Delia Lake: yes
[12:42] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I think Delia is saying that in practical terms, we're still paying the old rates; it's just that part of it is pro-rated. And she has a point.
[12:42] Delia Lake: yes
[12:42] Shep (shep.titian): I would hold back from GF Friedsee if we are making it a homestead
[12:42] Shep (shep.titian): and GF it when changed
[12:42] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): But that would be true wether we accept it now, or in Oct; but by taking it now, we get savings beginning in November, which is better than getting them next march (which would be the case if we waited)
[12:43] Tanoujin Milestone: I hear you, Shep
[12:43] Shep (shep.titian): I got in touch with LL support today
[12:43] Delia Lake: so I'm requesting that the RA along with the Chancellor/Exec and the LUC do some homework before making a decision that doesn't need to be made until just before 22 April
[12:44] Shep (shep.titian): They say if we turn a full sim into a homestead they will waive all fees
[12:44] Sudane Erato:
[12:44] Delia Lake: we get no benefit from rushing a decision today
[12:44] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Shep, going that route, aren't we stuck with two additional homesteands *and* have to pay $75 to boot?
[12:44] Sudane Erato: because they think we're nuts to do that
[12:45] Shep (shep.titian): no I asked could we straight swop
[12:45] Callipygian Christensen: and they'd be right Sudane lol
[12:45] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): And they have a point
[12:45] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Homesteads are cheaper, but they are harder to deal with from a renter point of view
[12:45] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Apart from Friedsee, I don't think downgrading any of our full regions would be viable.
[12:46] Shep (shep.titian): It depends if people are happy to have a gap back where Friedsee once stood
[12:46] Sudane Erato: disagree... if we do decide to change FDS to a homestead, we should JUST do that... and it would make perfect sense for us. There is NO need to take on 2 new homesteads as part of the swap
[12:46] Sudane Erato: but I agree with Delia in this... that nothing will happen now until the 22nd
[12:46] Shep (shep.titian): No I confirmed that today
[12:47] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): If we can downgrade without taking on the extra crud, I'm in favor of it
[12:47] Shep (shep.titian): ok lets open this up .. Coop your name is up
[12:47] Sudane Erato: we can... for free
[12:48] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): ok, I was going to throw in that other estates are doing this very thing, and they are already saying their citizen tier is being reduced
[12:49] Rosie Gray: we already have VERY inexpensive parcels, Coop
[12:49] Rosie Gray: as you should know
[12:49] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I know we want cheaper sims overall, but having higher tier won't be attractive. I'm afraid we'd be back in the same boat.
[12:49] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I think reducing prices would put us right back int he same situation we're trying to escape from. Where we're largely in the red.
[12:50] Sudane Erato: it makes no sense to get ourselves into the black... then lower tier so we are in the red again... what kind of business is that???
[12:50] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): maybe we can figure out a compromise; some reduction but still keep some padding
[12:50] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): The 22nd- that gives us two weeks. I wonder how much practical work we will manage to accomplish in that time...
[12:50] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Just saying we have a lot of empty space, and reducing the landmass would help.
[12:50] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): That's what I'm thinking, Sudane
[12:51] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I'm in favor of consolidating regions, getting rid of a couple; but that has downsides too, and could lead to citizens on those regions saying f*** this and bailing out.
[12:51] Tanoujin Milestone: so, grandfather LA and AM, downgrade FS and grandfather it afterwards - is it that what we are discussing now?
[12:51] Rosie Gray: making Friedsee a homestead would in effect reduce the landmass, having fewer parcels that need to be paid tier on
[12:51] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held) nods in agreement with Rosie
[12:52] Shep (shep.titian): yes and keeps the sim .. meaning in future it could be upgraded if needed
[12:52] Rosie Gray nods
[12:52] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Tan brings up a good point; we'll end up paying fees twice for FS it looks like. Once to downgrade it, again to grandfather it.
[12:52] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I think we'd get that money back, though...but it's worth being aware of
[12:52] Rosie Gray: and keeps the nice rectangle of land we have
[12:53] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Is the fee 1800 each time?
[12:53] Shep (shep.titian): It costs NOTHING to downgrade it ... I already said that!!
[12:53] Tanoujin Milestone: and the grandfathering fee for a homestead was - wait 180?
[12:53] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Widget Whiteberry
[12:53] Sudane Erato: yes
[12:53] Shep (shep.titian): Yes 180
[12:55] Tanoujin Milestone: I am in favor - but would like to hear widget
[12:55] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): So, if the linden that Shep talked to is wrong, we have to be prepared to either authorize that fee, or decide against downgrading.
[12:55] Shep (shep.titian): ok Widget
[12:55] Widget Whiteberry: Tan, my question is for the Chaancellor. I can wait
[12:55] Tanoujin Milestone:
[12:56] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I have a question
[12:56] Shep (shep.titian): Why would they be wrong?
[12:56] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Would the RA be willing to come together on or about the 20th to discuss this matter and vote then?
[12:56] Widget Whiteberry: Shep, it wouldn't be the first time
[12:56] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Because miscommunications and ba dtraining happens in large companies; the docs say there's a fee so that's what I'd assume unless I see something else on paper
[12:56] Rosie Gray wonders if there could be any type of delay on LL side that might affect us
[12:57] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I realise that LL has a reputation for consistency and competence, but even the best companies encouter miscommunications.
[12:57] Sudane Erato: we shouldn't cut it too close to tier date
[12:57] Lilith Ivory is more concerned about delays on our side
[12:57] Widget Whiteberry snorts
[12:57] Tanoujin Milestone: if we do not reach an agreement now... yes. But i want to remark we can only decide on the expenses, it is mainly an executive initiative
[12:57] Rosie Gray: that's what I was thinking, Sudane
[12:57] Shep (shep.titian): Hi .. it's a question about downgrading sims from full sim to homestead .. your page is'nt clear if you can convert a full sim to a single homestead ?4:42:02 PM
Lilian L
Hi, you can, although we don't usually recommend it. And of course you would need to still own one other full region, as you need a full region to own a homestead.4:43:53 PM
Me
Yes I'm part of a community that has 6 sims .. 5 full and one homestead .. low occupancy is making us consider downgrading just one to homestead ... could you please tell me the costs involved .. thanks :)4:45:36 PM
Lilian L
Thanks one moment.4:47:42 PM
As it would be going down to 1 HS we would wave the conversion fee and you would pay nothing.4:50:43 PM
Me
Wonderful .. thank you so much :)4:51:07 PM
Thank you for your help .. excellent job :)4:51:46 PM
Lilian L
Happy to help, take care!
[12:58] Callipygian Christensen: I must go to a RL meeting -exit stage left!-
[12:58] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Cool...no need for a contingency plan then.
[12:58] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): ❤Ⓣⓗⓐⓝⓚ Ⓤ❤
[12:58] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Have fun Calli! Thanks for being here
[12:58] Tanoujin Milestone: bye Calli
[12:59] Widget Whiteberry: I see room in that transcript for misunderstanding
[12:59] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Yes
[12:59] Shep (shep.titian): oh dear lord how?
[12:59] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Bye Calli
[12:59] Sudane Erato: The maximum that the fee would be is $100
[12:59] Rosie Gray: that's why there are Minutes
[12:59] Sudane Erato: that is clear from the page
[13:00] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Here's the thing; all of the RA got a message saying that there isn't a clear cut-and-dry course of action on the floor. There's too many options.
[13:00] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): For that reason, I move that we post-pone the vote on this until April 20th
[13:00] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): to give us time to figure out one course of action, instead of twenty
[13:00] Rosie Gray: hmmm
[13:00] Shep (shep.titian): I'm crystal clear on my solution
[13:00] Sudane Erato: thats a Wednesday
[13:01] Tanoujin Milestone: frankly, i am against it, we are here to discuss, why cut it off now?
[13:01] Shep (shep.titian): GF two sims .. reduce Friedsee to a homestead and then GF it for 180 dollars
[13:01] Tanoujin Milestone: in favor, Shep
[13:01] Delia Lake speaking for Calli who had to leave...please clarify that if we 'just swap a sim for a homestead' we are devaluing it by hundreds of dollars with no return??? it should be sold, then a homestead purchased!
[13:01] Rosie Gray nods in agreement with Shep too
[13:02] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): We're not cutting off anything; we're giving ourselves more time to look at all the options and discuss them in more detail. It's the opposite of cutting off. Doint a rushed vote today would be cutting off
[13:02] Sudane Erato: Delia, if we sell it we have to rebuild it
[13:02] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Yep; we can't simply "load file" the old sim.
[13:02] Widget Whiteberry: wonders where this deliberation will happen
[13:02] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held) nods, agreeing with Sudane
[13:02] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): I am in favour of Sheps suggestion too.
[13:02] Shep (shep.titian): Han .. what options .. dither and do nothing as per usual?
[13:02] Delia Lake: if we would homestead it we would probably have to rebuild anyway because of prim count
[13:03] Rosie Gray: we'll have to reparcel for sure
[13:03] Tanoujin Milestone: sadly, yes Delia
[13:03] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Why the mad rush? We have at least two different courses of action to go on
[13:03] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): grandfathering and downgrading
[13:03] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Y'all are in a straight-up panic, and I honestly don't get it.
[13:03] Delia Lake: maybe not totally rebuild but we don't have the primcount on a homestead to accommodate some of the current builds I'm thinking
[13:03] Sudane Erato: That's why we should not attempt to decide to homestead FDS in this very russhed fashion. There are many impacts to homesteading it... and we are not considering them all
[13:04] Shep (shep.titian): Its not a panic .. it just is a no brainer
[13:04] Rosie Gray: I'd like to ask Sudane what the likelihood is of selling the full Friedsee sim would be, within 2 weeks
[13:04] Shep (shep.titian): Its not a trick by LL its a simple money grab
[13:04] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Nothing involving long-term planning and financies is a 'no-brainer'; certainly not this.
[13:04] Sudane Erato: oh... i have no idea... it depends on what price we would ask
[13:04] Shep (shep.titian): What long term planning ?
[13:05] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Rebuilding FS for one
[13:05] Shep (shep.titian): You would'nt get over 300 for Friedsee as it is
[13:05] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Long term finances over which course to take (grandfathering, not grand fathering, grandfathering and downgrading)
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: am I right we would get a better price for a grandfatheres region instead of a normal one?
[13:06] Shep (shep.titian): Not really any more Lil
[13:06] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I suspect it would be a wash if it's a grandfathered region we paid to grandfather.
[13:06] Sudane Erato: yes... but because of the recent LL step, i'm sure the market is in confusion
[13:06] Shep (shep.titian): it WAS the case but offering to GF anywhere took that premium away
[13:06] Rosie Gray: we could use the same OAR file, and reparcel for fewer private parcels, keep the chalet and maybe the airport; and then of course everything would need to be picked up and then put back down again
[13:07] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): There are no OAR files in SL
[13:07] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): as I explained on the forum
[13:07] Sudane Erato: RAW file i think she means
[13:07] Rosie Gray: oh yes, sorry
[13:07] Tanoujin Milestone: as far as I see we have two options only on the table: grandfather LA, AM and FS and do long term planning * or grandfather LA, AM and downgrade and grandfather FS. Anything else?
[13:07] Rosie Gray: the terraform file
[13:07] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Ah, ok, yes...that onlly affects the terrain tho; we'd still have to reparcel and re-set out objects
[13:07] Rosie Gray: yes, as I just said
[13:07] Shep (shep.titian): No Tan that's it
[13:08] Sudane Erato: I strongly urge Tan's option 1
[13:08] Sudane Erato: and if i can... may i make a short statement about money?
[13:08] Lilith Ivory nods in agreement
[13:08] Shep (shep.titian): Since Friedsee seems to be the sticking point we could GF the two others
[13:08] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held) looks at Sudane, listening attentively
[13:09] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Please do, Sudane
[13:09] Shep (shep.titian): And postpone deciding on FS
[13:09] Sudane Erato: ok...
[13:09] Delia Lake: let me say again because I don't want it to get lost, we get no benefit whatsoever by acting today rather than acting on 21 April after we have had more discussion and homework, real actual homework doing time.
[13:09] Sudane Erato: the proposed $1800 is a one time expenditure from our reserves
[13:09] Sudane Erato: yes... it lowers our wealth by 1800
[13:09] Sudane Erato: but
[13:10] Sudane Erato: the instant we are again in the black... ie having more income than expenses in a month
[13:10] Sudane Erato: those reserves begin to increase again
[13:10] Sudane Erato: yes... perhaps the reserves will bot be back to the today level for 6 months
[13:10] Sudane Erato: but people...
[13:11] Sudane Erato: that's why we have reserves!
[13:11] Rosie Gray: yes!
[13:11] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Hear, hear!
[13:11] Sudane Erato: what some opponents in the past have called iobscene
[13:11] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:11] Sudane Erato: they are not obscene... they are our strength
[13:11] Shep (shep.titian): My only sticking point is GF FS if its being downgraded
[13:11] Sudane Erato: and we should make craetive one time uses of them
[13:12] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Ok, can we agree to come back to discuss what to do with FS before it's due for renewal?
[13:12] Sudane Erato: in this case... we should use them to put ourselves in the black
[13:12] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): And approve the remaining regions?
[13:12] Sudane Erato: and then take our considered time to make necessary and difficult steps for our future
[13:12] Shep (shep.titian): Sudane when is tier due on FS?
[13:12] Sudane Erato: done
[13:13] Sudane Erato: the 3rd... i think i noted earlier
[13:13] Sudane Erato: can check again
[13:13] Shep (shep.titian): k that has some leeway
[13:13] Widget Whiteberry: Do we pay tier in advance?
[13:13] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): That would mean deciding before the 28th, more or less
[13:13] Lilith Ivory: [12:38] Sudane Erato: FDS pays tier on the 3rd, AM on the 22nd and LA on the 27th
[13:14] Shep (shep.titian): but I don't know how long LL take to implement the GF status
[13:14] Rosie Gray: I wouldn't leave it to the last minute, that's for sure
[13:14] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Widget
[13:15] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): My first choice would be to grandfather the two we know we want, downgrade FS immediately and then if applicable, grandfather it once it's a homestead
[13:15] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): going that route we'd have a lower grandfathering fee, too.
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: I´m concerned about CDS trying to do things at the last minute
[13:16] Shep (shep.titian): Well Han you just said what I said a while back lol
[13:16] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Yes, I'm agreeing with you. It happens sometimes
[13:16] Shep (shep.titian): 
[13:16] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Write it out as a motion and let's do this :3
[13:16] Delia Lake: please tell me as a concerned citizen what the RA sees as a benefit to making a decision regarding grandfathering now, at this meeting?
[13:17] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Because two weeks is a very short time
[13:17] Tanoujin Milestone: we do our job in a timely fashion
[13:17] Shep (shep.titian): More I can't see the point of waiting
[13:17] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Delia; to give LL time to process the transaction so that we have the best chance of actually getting the discount when it's time to pay rent
[13:17] Rosie Gray: there's been a lot of discussion about this on the forum too, Delia
[13:17] Rosie Gray: everyone seems to be generally in favour
[13:18] Delia Lake: two weeks is two weeks, that's 14 days where we could be fleshing out a comprehensive plan.
[13:18] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): There's questions about what to do afterward; but those can be dealt with as we're saving money by paying lower teir
[13:18] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Delia; is there a reason NOT to take this discount?
[13:18] Delia Lake: and I'm quite certain that LL does not factor in their own lag time in processing requests to determining a cut off date
[13:18] Shep (shep.titian): We need that plan whatever .. makes no difference what the tier is to plans to encourage people
[13:19] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): The consensus seems to be that this is something we want to do, I haven't heard anyone say "no, this is a repugnant offer, don't take it".
[13:19] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): The extra planning around it can be done once we set the paperwork in motion
[13:19] Delia Lake: I'm saying again that until 22 April when the next payment to LL comes due there is no benefit whatsoever to the CDS in acting
[13:19] Rosie Gray: what are you so concerned about, Delia?
[13:20] Rosie Gray: I'm not understanding
[13:20] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): There's no need to wait to officially make a decsion we've already mostly agreed on...that is taking the offer.
[13:20] Shep (shep.titian): LL will be inundated with GF requests .. we don't want to be in a backlog
[13:20] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held) nods at Shep, agreeing
[13:20] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held) again ~~~~
[13:20] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): ~~~~
[13:20] Delia Lake: LL cannot possibly count their own backlog against our request
[13:21] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Delia; we agree we want the saving, what is the point in holding THAT part up?
[13:21] Shep (shep.titian): You want to bet?
[13:21] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): What does that buy us?
[13:21] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Planning can still go on after we have the wheels in motion.
[13:21] Delia Lake: we don't get any reduction until our 22 April next payment
[13:21] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): But there's no reason to not do a yes/no vote today.
[13:22] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): We're here; we've discussed it for days, what is the advantage in calling another meeting later on?
[13:22] Sudane Erato: The only reason to not take the step is if we are... short term... considering either homesteading or dropping completely a sim... then the 600 would be a waste
[13:22] Shep (shep.titian): It will take time for Rudeen to get the tickets done
[13:22] Shep (shep.titian): and we need to strip FS
[13:22] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Unfortunately I have to leave. I am in favour of the suggestion of grandfathering the two sims we know we want, downgrade FS immediately and then if applicable, grandfather it once it's a homestead. And then make our plans for the future while saving money in the meantime.
[13:22] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Em
[13:22] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): can you wait a min while I make a motion?
[13:22] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): please?
[13:23] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Em
[13:23] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Sure
[13:23] Widget Whiteberry hopes we don't rush to downgrade FDS
[13:23] Delia Lake: reprising what I posted earlier. so grandfathering all the regions that are not now in that state would alleviate the overall estate shortfall but not solve the CN and Friedsee problems. so, where's the marketing plan, the new citizen welcoming plan and citizen engagement plan to mitigate these problems?
[13:24] Rosie Gray: all that is in the works delia
[13:24] Rosie Gray: there IS a marketing plan
[13:24] Rosie Gray: just not enough people to help execute some of it
[13:24] Rosie Gray: and more can always be done that way, of course
[13:24] Shep (shep.titian): ok .. I move that we instruct Rudeen to pay LL to grandfathe LA and AM .. and to reduce Friedsee from a full to a homestead sim .. upon which point it should also be grandfathered
[13:24] Tanoujin Milestone: i second
[13:25] Shep (shep.titian): Vote .
[13:25] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Thank you. I move that we accept this offer to reduce teir in exchange for a pay-down fee and apply immediately to have two of our full-prim regions grandfathered. In addition we shall authorise Friedsee to be downgraded to a homestead. We shall authorize the treasurer to take whatever is needed and apply it towoards these two transactions
[13:25] Shep (shep.titian): Aye
[13:25] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[13:25] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Aye
[13:25] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): I withdraw my motion
[13:25] Delia Lake: imo it should be spelled out as part of a comprehensive estate plan previous to making Friedsee a homestead or doing anything. we don't need to rush
[13:25] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[13:25] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Aye
[13:25] Shep (shep.titian): Carried .. Leslie?
[13:25] Leslie Allandale: Does the plan include a rush of new citizens, as that isn't going to happen any time soon. SI is in decline, and it is hard to see any way for CDS to effectively counter that.
[13:26] Leslie Allandale: just sayin'
[13:26] Leslie Allandale: done
[13:26] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Reducing our over-all expenses is the best move we can make against Sansar
[13:26] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): and SL's over-all decline
[13:26] Leslie Allandale: agreed, but wiII this be enough?
[13:26] Em Warden (mothercard.warden): Good luck... sorry for leaving early. I wish you all a nice weekend.
[13:27] Tanoujin Milestone: bye Em
[13:27] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): For now; eventually we'll have to sell off regions and at some point there is going to be only two people living on NFS...but that's a ways off.
[13:27] Pip Torok: bye em
[13:27] Widget Whiteberry: Now that that's done, I've a question for the Chancellor. two actually
[13:27] Rosie Gray: sure
[13:27] Shep (shep.titian): Bye Em ..
[13:27] Rosie Gray: if that fits the LRA's agenda
[13:27] Shep (shep.titian): ok Widget
[13:28] Shep (shep.titian): I missed her earlier sorry
[13:28] Widget Whiteberry: 1. will there be additional followups to the incomplete discussion you hosted re your recent surveey
[13:28] Rosie Gray: yes of course
[13:28] Widget Whiteberry: it was good but incomplete, and 2. where is the marketing plan posted?
[13:29] Rosie Gray: I tried to have one on Thursday, but I couldn't stay in SL from crashing
[13:29] Rosie Gray: the marketing plan was posted immediately after I took office
[13:29] Widget Whiteberry: where, Rosie? I've lost track of it
[13:29] Rosie Gray: on the forum... let me look
[13:29] Widget Whiteberry: hank you. and done
[13:30] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Delia Lake
[13:30] Shep (shep.titian): ok
[13:30] Rosie Gray: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 215#p41817
[13:30] Shep (shep.titian): general announcements .. just one
[13:30] Rosie Gray: it's the budget
[13:30] Shep (shep.titian): .The RA would like to officially welcome our newest citizens ...
Brooke Brandenburg.... Larah Undercroft..... Aedan Charron ...
Dante ... .Annechen Lowey ... Samara Barzane and Garnet Manx
. and hope you come to love the CDS as much as we do ..
And a warm welcome back to Brian Livingstone .. nice to have you back
[13:31] Tanoujin Milestone: applause
[13:31] Delia Lake: Welcome all. great to have you in the CDS!
[13:31] Pip Torok: applause
[13:31] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[13:31] Sudane Erato: yay!
[13:31] Delia Lake: I have an announcement too
[13:31] Shep (shep.titian): Welcome all
[13:31] Lilith Ivory applauds
[13:31] Brooke (brooke.brandenburg): thank you; i love it here )
[13:31] Shep (shep.titian): Delia?
[13:31] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Welcome all
[13:32] Delia Lake: There will be a meeting of the Land Use Commission (LUC) here on the lower floor at 3 pm slt today
[13:32] Shep (shep.titian): cool
[13:32] Shep (shep.titian): thank you
[13:32] Widget Whiteberry waves hand at Rosie - yes, that's a budget. Where is the marketing PLAN?
[13:33] Shep (shep.titian): ok next meeting
[13:33] Shep (shep.titian): 7th May at 12 noon?
[13:33] Rosie Gray: I have details on a spreadsheet
[13:34] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Sounds good to me, Shep
[13:34] Tanoujin Milestone: I move we meeat here again on 7th May at 12 noon
[13:34] Tanoujin Milestone: *meet
[13:34] Shep (shep.titian): second
[13:35] Shep (shep.titian): vote
[13:35] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[13:35] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[13:35] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): aye
[13:35] Shep (shep.titian): I move we adjourn the meeting
[13:35] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): seconded
[13:35] Tanoujin Milestone: second
[13:35] Shep (shep.titian): vote
[13:35] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): aye
[13:35] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[13:35] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[13:36] Shep (shep.titian): thanks folks .. good meeting
[13:36] Aedan (aedan.charron): Thank you all!
[13:36] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): See y'all in a month :3
[13:36] Hannah Marie Bloodwolf-Firelyte (han.held): Thanks to everyone for coming and participating
[13:36] Tanoujin Milestone:
[13:36] Lilith Ivory: hopefully sooner
[13:36] Shep (shep.titian): lol yes