Transcript of Scientific Council meeting Saturday 16 July 2016
Meeting called to order at 0903 SLT
Members present: Dean Lilith Ivory, Soro Dagostino, Callipygian Christensen, RG Cooperstone
Agenda was approved
Petition Template was discussed. Moved to table until discussed points can be integrated into final draft version.
Impeachment Procedure draft was discussed. Cooperstone moved to accept, with second by Ivory. Voted to accept unanimously.
Discussion was held on placing procedural documents on a permanent forum thread.
Additional discussion about current forum and RSS/aggregator issues.
Christensen moved to adjourn at 0950 SLT, with second from Cooperstone. Voted aye unanimously.
-------------------
Lilith Ivory: well, as we are quorate ... let’s call this meeting to order
Soro Dagostino: Agree.
Lilith Ivory: did you all have the agenda and can we approve it?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Yes
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Lilith Ivory: yes 
Lilith Ivory: first item is the template for petitions to the SC
Lilith Ivory: unfortunately Arria is not here to present it but I think as we are here now we can have a look at it anyway
Lilith Ivory: and also Coop has given me a draft from himself which we can discuss
Lilith Ivory: both are in the box
RogueGeek Cooperstone: The text in the box is more clear than the last post I saw on the forum
Soro Dagostino: What exist now?
Lilith Ivory: so far no written template for petition exists at all
Lilith Ivory: we are trying for years now to get one done
RogueGeek Cooperstone: and no guidelines
Soro Dagostino: Roberts Rules.
Lilith Ivory: erm .. to file a petition to the SC?
Lilith Ivory: Coop, do you want to present your draft first?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: In either case, the drafts we have out by notecard explain what you can petition for, and what needs to be sent in
RogueGeek Cooperstone: What I did in my draft was to clear up a little awkward language, and try to get the explanation in one section.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: yep
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I hope he is more awke for his clients
Lilith Ivory: /me nods, reading it
Soro Dagostino: An excellent job of pure governmental lexicon!
Lilith Ivory: HA! here comes Calli
RogueGeek Cooperstone: a wild Calli appears
Lilith Ivory: I wonder if "alleging fault" can be changed into something more simple but as clear as I as a non-native speaker had to look this up in my dictionary
Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli
RogueGeek Cooperstone: right.
Lilith Ivory: glad to have you hereSoro Dagostino: HelloSoro Dagostino: Calli.
Garnet Manx: morning callipygian
Callipygian Christensen: morning all and apologies - login problems
Lilith Ivory: SL is a bitch lately 
RogueGeek Cooperstone: No lie
Lilith Ivory: we have just started to discuss the petition templates ...
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I hope they get their servers rebooted 
Lilith Ivory: Aria has excused herself but gave me a new draft ..
Lilith Ivory: and Coop has been working on a more detailes one too
Lilith Ivory: *detailed
Lilith Ivory: both versions and the agenda are in the box behind me
Soro Dagostino: /a
Lilith Ivory: Soro?
Soro Dagostino: I'm being bewetched by SL.
Callipygian Christensen: got them and reading
Soro Dagostino: I am not sleepy.
Lilith Ivory: I have to scratch my head about B
RogueGeek Cooperstone: This has been the worst week for SL inworld dynamics in a long time
Lilith Ivory: I agree about that!
Lilith Ivory: "If both parties do not give written consent, the SC cannot hear the petition." .. why would one file a petition in this case?
Lilith Ivory: and what if only one part gives consent?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: to make a point
RogueGeek Cooperstone: That was in the original draft Lil
Lilith Ivory: I’m just going through ours line by line to avoid future problems in case we adopt it like your draft is now
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I think the intent was if someone tried to petition the SC over a property dispute
Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
Lilith Ivory: /me nods
Lilith Ivory: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: We now have two drafts - are we comparing them, or discussing individually?
Lilith Ivory: I am open for advices but as Arria has excused herself for this meeting I was thinking we could have a look at both and maybe merge them to get the optimal result
Lilith Ivory: what do you think?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: if it will help, I withdraw mine. As I said earlier, I was going on what saw last on the forum, and the draft in the box is clearer
Soro Dagostino: It is.
Callipygian Christensen: Ok - on Arria's - I would like to see the line'My petition can be discussed in a public meeting : YES / NO' removed - it suggests it is up to the petitioner and we should be clear that is an SC call
Lilith Ivory: I agree and I have reminded Arria to include our discussion at the May meeting in the new version of her draft
Callipygian Christensen: If we are looking at Coop's, I think it suggests we *will* hear persona disputes if permission is given
Lilith Ivory: grr - brb phone
Callipygian Christensen: I think, since we will only hear disputes based on law or covenant, there is no need for permission
Soro Dagostino: I think the dispute should be heard, unless it is withdrawn.
Soro Dagostino: There needs to be a wall that the petitioner and errant party need to know exist.
Lilith Ivory: back - and agreeing with Calli
Callipygian Christensen: Soro, yes - and I think that wall is ' is this a matter related to a CDS law, the Contsitution, or the covenants and their enforcement
Soro Dagostino: I think we agree.
Callipygian Christensen: Coop, is that what you were intending, or were you looking at a broader area of things we would hear?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I agree with Calli as well. I was working off the older draft that still included the older language
Callipygian Christensen: /me nods - that is what I thought.
Callipygian Christensen: A comment here - and this is something ’obvious’ that I think we all have missed from the start
Lilith Ivory: yes Calli?
Soro Dagostino: Pray tell?
Callipygian Christensen: Including the 'have you published in the forums' seems to suggest doing so is desirable - and traditionally that was not the case. What purpose is there in a 5 day 'notify then publish' if the accusation is already public?
Soro Dagostino: I would think a petition would be published by the SC.
Lilith Ivory: /me nods
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I think the 5 day is for the Gov't person to have time to write a resonse
RogueGeek Cooperstone: response
Lilith Ivory: I even think this 5 day rule is not a bad one as it gives the parties time to think about their petition again, maybe in a calmer mood
Soro Dagostino: A 5 day withdraw limit?
Soro Dagostino: Dean to hold for that time.
Lilith Ivory: not a limit I would say but this week gives us time to talk to the petitioner
Callipygian Christensen: /me nods - but that 'think about' and 'calmer' becomes less likely if people are publishing petitions themselves – there is also the frequent situation where a petition is written badly and is not acceptable in that form..
RogueGeek Cooperstone: The difference is as I see it is a straight up Law Petition involves no one but the petitioner.
Lilith Ivory: I totally agree
Callipygian Christensen: I think we should advise that people submit and that the Dean will publish once they have confirmed the content with the petitioner
Soro Dagostino: I don't think the parties should publish -- they have 5 days to withdraw.
Lilith Ivory: imo they can withdraw any time
Lilith Ivory: but should leave it to the SC to publish their petition
Callipygian Christensen: It's hard to backdown if you've posted in a snit; it's hard to explain that a petition is invalid if people already have the pitchforks out
RogueGeek Cooperstone: the 5 days is giving the other person in the mix a chance to respond, and Calli is spot on
Soro Dagostino: Out! Damn Spot!
Lilith Ivory: /me nods in agreement
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Misinformation given wings can be hard to stop once it gets moving
Callipygian Christensen: so perhaps wording that says , al petitons shall be submitted to the Dean in confidene, the Dean wil confirm the details with the petioner, then publish
Soro Dagostino: Puts a load on the Dean.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: What I think the fear was is that the SC would sit on or squelch a petition
Lilith Ivory: I don't mind
Callipygian Christensen: People are still free to post and tak about their mistreatment if they wish, but the substance of an actual petition is dealt with by our process.
Soro Dagostino: Your call.
Soro Dagostino: Lil.
Lilith Ivory: to avoid that we can include that the dean will pass this petition to all fellow SC members
Callipygian Christensen: Soro, tat load has aways been there - yu knowtht form yur time as Dean LOL
Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
Callipygian Christensen: Coop - I think yu are correct in that - but we can include tht a citizen who fes the Dean has not acted can contact other members prhaps?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I assumed it came with the big hat
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Yes
Lilith Ivory: I as dean would inform my fellow members anyway so it isnot only my decision if a petition qualifies for a hearing or not
RogueGeek Cooperstone: While I want to avoid invoking the CDS version of Godwin's law, I want the people to feel that we as a body will be responsive
Callipygian Christensen: yes, but responsive temperd with due process
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Yes, again, I'm with you.
Callipygian Christensen: There has, at times, been a tendency to drop anything and everything in the SC's lap
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Right
Lilith Ivory: /me nods
Callipygian Christensen: So I think some clarity around what we hear and how is good
Lilith Ivory: /me nods
Soro Dagostino: But let's not make it so complex that it scares people off.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Calli, all I am trying to avoid is the situation that happened when I was Chancellor
Callipygian Christensen: Coop - I think yu need to expai what that situation was
Callipygian Christensen: *explain
Lilith Ivory: imo the SC and the dean is something completely different as the dean is only one of several equal members here
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Ah. The time it took for a petition to be heard on Friedsee.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Maybe I was not told part of it, but the appearance was that there was a delay between when it was sent in and when it was finally heard.
Callipygian Christensen: Ok, how is this draft addressing that concern?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: the notification of receipt
Callipygian Christensen: /me frowns - I am loking back at the Dougga petitons and the posting
Callipygian Christensen: the petitions were filed on Oct 2nd, they were posted on the 3rd, and an injunction was granted on the 9th - I am not sure how much faster this body coould be?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Dougga wasn't mine
Callipygian Christensen: Either way - I think we cover tht with 'the Dean will confirm the details then post'?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: That is fine.
Lilith Ivory: yes, and I am not against this 5 day rule - if that helps
Callipygian Christensen: Oh sorry - brain not awake yet - I pulled up the wrong petitions loll
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Of all the things to blame me for, Dougga is not one.
Callipygian Christensen: LOL - not blame, just research in the wrong time period
Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
Callipygian Christensen: Can what we've been discussing be incorporated and then we can accept the draft next meeting?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Yes. I'd also like to post the newest draft on the forum.
Soro Dagostino: Hear, hear.
Soro Dagostino: Motion to table, and republish.
Lilith Ivory: yes good idea
Lilith Ivory: maybe you can work with Arria on that Coop as she has started this template
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Glad to
Lilith Ivory: all in favor of proceeding like this?
Callipygian Christensen: aye
Lilith Ivory: aye
RogueGeek Cooperstone: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Lilith Ivory: ok cool
Lilith Ivory: next agenda item: 2. Hearing and Impeachment Procedures
Lilith Ivory: Calli do you have anything new to present?
Callipygian Christensen: We left things at ' feedback etc on the forums'..
Callipygian Christensen: nothing was posted, so no new draft needed
Lilith Ivory: for the record it can be found here
Lilith Ivory: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7612
Lilith Ivory: (hopefully the right version)
Callipygian Christensen: I propose we vote on acepting the impeachment proceedings as po cirullated and posted on the forums here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7612
Callipygian Christensen: *previously circulated (not po cisuated)
Widget Whiteberry: /me smothers a giggle
Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
Callipygian Christensen: /me submits a reuest for a new keyboard lol
Lilith Ivory: shall we vote if Calli is allowed to get herself a new keyboard?
Lilith Ivory: doubting if she would listen if we vote nay
Lilith Ivory: does your draft need further discussion and comments Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: wel its been posted for a month with none – so unless there is something now, no
Lilith Ivory: Coop? Soro?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I'm good with the draft
Lilith Ivory: as we all seem to be fine with this draft I think we can just vote on it
Soro Dagostino: I won't hold up matters.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Move to accept the impeachment procedure
Lilith Ivory: I second
Lilith Ivory: all in favor say aye please
Callipygian Christensen: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Aye
Lilith Ivory: aye
Lilith Ivory: the impeachment procedures are accepted
Lilith Ivory: silly question btw ... is there a special place where SC procedures like this are posted so one can see them at the first look?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Forum?
Soro Dagostino: The SC announcement page?
Callipygian Christensen: our code is pinned at the top of our forum ..
Callipygian Christensen: we can also pin both sets of procdures for hearings - I can do that..
Callipygian Christensen: and we shouold now post them on the portal
Lilith Ivory: yes good idea
Lilith Ivory: it will become extremely difficult to find them in SC discussions or announcements ever again in a few years
Soro Dagostino: Say hey? Who fixes Portal and Forum connections?
Soro Dagostino: Mine are broken.
Widget Whiteberry: /me wonders if a dedicated SC procedures thread could be created on the Forum and also the Portal
RogueGeek Cooperstone: are you still trying to do feedly Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Callipygian Christensen: widget - the procedures can be split out into a different subforum, sure
Widget Whiteberry: would make them easier to find
Lilith Ivory: I think this would be a good idea
Callipygian Christensen: Soro - I can only suggest y contact gwyn re the Forums and the RSS feed for them
Soro Dagostino: k
Widget Whiteberry: I've written to Gwen..... weeks ago. She's not responded
Widget Whiteberry: /me remembers her manners and hushes
Soro Dagostino: Since 6/27
Callipygian Christensen: the website - portal- not sure how that works with Feedly so check with Mizou if something has changed with that as well.
Lilith Ivory: maybe you want to try a different way to get forum access ...to me it happends sometimes too some software stops working with others and than I have no choice but to switch to something different
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Maybe they didn't get enough traffic to keep it on their watchlist
Soro Dagostino: With all the CDS chatter? LOL
Callipygian Christensen: I can't imagine trying to do moderation stuff through an RSS feed or even on a phone through a browser lol
Lilith Ivory: well, if we don’t have any official SC business anymore I would suggest we adjourn this meeting and if we want to stay here and chat we can do it anyway
Callipygian Christensen: move to adjourn
RogueGeek Cooperstone: second
Lilith Ivory: all in favor say aye please
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Aye
Soro Dagostino: I'll talk with Mizou
Lilith Ivory: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Lilith Ivory: we are adjourned
Callipygian Christensen: aye