[[12:05] Lilith Ivory: HI Calli, Hi Arria
[12:05] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Lilith
[12:05] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: sorry for being late but had a stressful day in both lifes 
[12:07] Callipygian Christensen: awww :/
[12:07] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith - can you send a notice that we will start at 12.15 please?
[12:07] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:11] Callipygian Christensen: agenda and a notecard of the meetig procedure draft is in the box
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: just asking Delia for some techhelpon google docs
[12:17] Callipygian Christensen: ok..calling the meeting to order..
[12:17] Callipygian Christensen: do you both approve the agenda as printed?
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: yes I do
[12:19] Arria Perreault: I do too
[12:19] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[12:19] Callipygian Christensen: Item 1 under Old Business - dates for upcoming elections. I'll hand it over to you two
[12:20] Lilith Ivory: good - while I have to say I noticed something odd at the version Arria gave me at the last RA meeting
[12:21] Shep (shep.titian):
[12:21] Arria Perreault: Hello Shep ㋡
[12:22] Shep (shep.titian): Hi there Honourable members 
[12:22] Arria Perreault: tell us what is odd, Lilith
[12:22] Callipygian Christensen: welcome Shep, Vic..meeting is recorded so speaking is permission to be in the record
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: well, there is a difference between the spring and fall elections every year
[12:23] Callipygian Christensen: what kind of difference?
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: in spring there are 19 days between the deadline for the right to vote and the deadline to declare ....
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: and in fall there are 21 days between both deadlines
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: what leads to a problem with announcing the candidates list and start of campaigning
[12:24] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Vic
[12:24] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington) waves
[12:24] Callipygian Christensen: That variance isnt actually a problem, since deadlines to declare are decided by the SC, not law...the variance is probbly to fit in with the required dates Arria?
[12:24] Lilith Ivory: Hi Vic
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: Are the dates on a document somewhere that I can look at them?
[12:25] Arria Perreault: here is the notecard
[12:26] Arria Perreault: I have always tried to start from the end of the process
[12:26] Arria Perreault: and I went back to the start
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: me too
[12:27] Callipygian Christensen: It has to be a backwards calculation *nod*. The date the polls must open is legislated..
[12:27] Callipygian Christensen: and the citizenship requirement to run or vote is 28 days..
[12:28] Lilith Ivory nods as she didn´t notice any problem there
[12:29] Callipygian Christensen: ok. so I am not usre what the concern is Lilith..can you point it out using one speicific set of dates?
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: I was just wondering why in april the citizens have 19 days to declare while in fall they have 21 days
[12:32] Callipygian Christensen: Arria..was there a specific reason for that?
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I am trying to find the history
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I don't see any reason
[12:35] Arria Perreault: do we need to change something ?
[12:35] Callipygian Christensen: ok - would the two of you please meet or discuss in soe way and decide on a final set of dates that follow the law, circulate them to the members of the SC, and have them ready for a vote to approve at the next meeting?
[12:35] Arria Perreault: in this case, I would need more time and use a calendar
[12:35] Lilith Ivory: if we set the time to declare in fall to 19 days too than we would not have this problem that in fall the candidates get announced AFTER the period of campaigning starts
[12:36] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:36] Callipygian Christensen: ah!
[12:36] Callipygian Christensen: the error that showed up THIS last time..lol
[12:36] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith, yes, that should be corrected...
[12:36] Lilith Ivory: looks like it always does in fall
[12:36] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:37] Arria Perreault: strange ...
[12:37] Callipygian Christensen: so back to my previous comment - would you both work on this and have the final dates ready for the nextmeeting please
[12:37] Arria Perreault: ok for me
[12:37] Lilith Ivory: ok for me too
[12:38] Callipygian Christensen: and it MUST be voted on at that meeting since a month of warning that the dates are coming up would be good
[12:38] Callipygian Christensen: ok.item 2
[12:39] Callipygian Christensen: the next RA meeting is Feb 15th and it is expected that 4 members at least will be present.
[12:40] Callipygian Christensen: That is the requirement for consitutional amendments to be passed, so I will submit the reform to Article III to that agenda
[12:40] Callipygian Christensen: Item 3 Meeting procedures
[12:40] Callipygian Christensen: there is a notecard in the agenda box
[12:41] Callipygian Christensen: this is a draft of meeting procedures for the SC, designed to still recognize the form originally intened for meetings, but removing a lot of requirements that just added time
[12:42] Callipygian Christensen: (Specifially the 'poll each member for how mucht tie they have available and adjust the agenda etc)
[12:43] Callipygian Christensen: It is replacing the procedure shown here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php/cds- ... c-council/
[12:45] Callipygian Christensen: I will post the draft to the SC discussion as well, so please compare, consider, and give any input there
[12:46] Callipygian Christensen: If we can vote on this at the next meeting, I can move forward with addressing item 4
[12:46] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, Lilith..thoughts, comments?
[12:46] Lilith Ivory wonders where those founding philosophies can be found
[12:47] Arria Perreault: I agree with the procedure
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: and I agree too of course
[12:47] Callipygian Christensen: I dont have the old wiki URL handy but will find it for you later Lilith
[12:48] Lilith Ivory smiles and nods
[12:48] Callipygian Christensen: the 'founding document's are a mishmash of wiki, Forum, blog etc - which has always been one of the challenges for the members of the SC in trying to interpret them
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: So, discussion and any amendment to the draft will be done in the Forums, and it will be on the next agenda for a vote.
[12:49] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:49] Callipygian Christensen: item 4..reform of appeal, impeachment, judiciary
[12:50] Lilith Ivory: ok
[12:50] Callipygian Christensen: This one is years overdue, and will take , I think, a committee to come to some ultimet document
[12:50] Arria Perreault: I think so too
[12:51] Lilith Ivory nods
[12:51] Arria Perreault: do you expect a Bill to be voted by the RA or a constitutional change ?
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Hi Aliasi
[12:51] Arria Perreault: Hi Aliasi
[12:51] Aliasi Stonebender: hello - just woke up, apologies.
[12:52] Callipygian Christensen: Currently, to my reading, the SC is responsible for dealing with impeachment for example, but there is no clear explanation of when impeachment is appropriate, and the current rules applying to it are really weak in the description of how an impeachment is heard.
[12:52] Callipygian Christensen: Welcome Aliasi
[12:52] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, one or both may be required..part of the reason it's a complex one to deal with.
[12:54] Callipygian Christensen: Currently this is what the constitutin says:
[12:54] Callipygian Christensen: Section 7 – Hearings and Trials
Hearings and trials not involving government officials will be overseen by a single Professor. All impeachment hearings will be performed in the Philosophic branch by the Chairs without a jury. If a Chair is accused, that Chair will be excused for the duration of the hearing. A member of the branch which is not calling for the impeachment hearing will serve as Leader of the Philosophic branch during the hearing.
[12:55] Callipygian Christensen: Ahem - we do not have professors, we do not have a jury process,
[12:56] Callipygian Christensen: going by that set of instructions, anyone handling an impechment hearing is doing it by the seat of thier pants and is open to reasonable complaints about process imo.
[12:56] Callipygian Christensen: Aliasi can probably confirm or correct this..I think there have only ever been 2 impeachments?
[12:57] Aliasi Stonebender: I'm not even sure that one of them was an impeachment.
[12:57] Aliasi Stonebender: Since it was Ulrika, and at the time she wasn't actually associated with Neualtenburg.
[12:58] Callipygian Christensen: ah..so onl y one.
[12:58] Aliasi Stonebender: Also, the "Professor" bit is a somewhat outdated reference to an SC member.
[12:58] Callipygian Christensen: Impeachment is pretty serious business, but currently there has been discussion of there being no recall mechanism for RA members..
[12:59] Aliasi Stonebender: Part of the overly cute "branch of smart people" gimmick the Scientific Council had. You know. What with the name.
[12:59] Arria Perreault: is impeachment a banishment ? or can we understand that the citizen lose some rights (for example the right to run) for a given period ?
[12:59] Callipygian Christensen nodsto Aliasi - the whole university structure originally meant fo r the SC fell apart years ago, but wasnever corrected in the documents and laws.
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: Impeachement traditionally is a removal from office.
[13:00] Aliasi Stonebender: I'm not really all that sure a recall mechanism is needed, given the extremely short terms our RA members serve.
[13:01] Callipygian Christensen: it is used when a politician has not performed thier job legally, fully, or has done something unlawful or unethical at a serious level.
[13:02] Aliasi Stonebender: (it has not, to date, been used because someone fibbed about an affair with an intern and their political opponents wanted an excuse, but give us time.)
[13:02] Arria Perreault: I think it is better to have such a mecanism, in hope that we never or extremely rarely use it
[13:02] Callipygian Christensen: Aliasi - the same could be said of impechment, since the timeframe to carry out one would be at least one sixth of the term
[13:03] Callipygian Christensen: Impeachment also applies of course to the Chancellor and to the SC members
[13:03] Arria Perreault: and the RA decide in case of the exclusion of an SC member ?
[13:04] Callipygian Christensen: Currently the SC decides in all cases, just excluding the member accused..that is part of the problem
[13:04] Arria Perreault: yes, I agree that it is problematic
[13:05] Callipygian Christensen: I believe impeachment should have members from all govt bodies sitting on a panel to hear it..
[13:05] Callipygian Christensen: the balance always being in favour of the citizens..ie..if an SC member is impeached, 2 SC members, 2 RA members and the Chancellor might hear it
[13:05] Aliasi Stonebender: a large part of that reason was, again, a rather romantic feel on what the SC was.
[13:06] You decline The Dominion Confessions Bar from A group member named SteJames.
[13:06] Callipygian Christensen: If a RA member is impeached 2 RA members and 3 SC..
[13:06] Callipygian Christensen: or if its the Chancellor, 3 SC. 2 RA..
[13:07] Aliasi Stonebender: (also, I suspect, originally it gave an out in case the plebs did anything like democratically decide something that wasn't liked. 
)
[13:07] Callipygian Christensen: whatever combination should be specified in the law with the SC managing the process but including other branches.
[13:07] Callipygian Christensen: Possibly so Aliasi
[13:08] Victor1st Mornington raises hand
[13:08] Callipygian Christensen: I am just weary of trying to answer questions about things like this that have no basis for me to answer from.
[13:09] Callipygian Christensen: Previous changes..to our method af adding people.and the Article iii amendment, were put together by committee..
[13:09] Callipygian Christensen: )one minute Vic..will get to you)
[13:10] Callipygian Christensen: so I suggest that we draft a change, then ask for a committee to review it and discuss any additonal changes or editing.
[13:10] Callipygian Christensen: Vic?
[13:11] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): another headache for you to think about, what happens if said person who is being impeached or appear infront of court... wants to actually appeal that decision? Looks to me like you are going to have to form an "Upper" court and a "lower" court... upper used for appeals
[13:11] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): done
[13:12] Callipygian Christensen: Vic - absulutely..already a problem with ordinary petitions etc, that is also needing review
[13:12] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington) nods
[13:13] Callipygian Christensen: Any structure put in place neds to have an appeal, so structure may require that there be an appeal process designated as well
[13:14] Callipygian Christensen: This process of reforming how the SC acts, and tyying to give the SC a clear mandate to do so, hasbeen ongoing..
[13:14] Aliasi Stonebender: On a more practical note, however, I'd ask exactly how much bureaucracy a tiny virtual town (which is what we really are) needs in this regard.
[13:14] Callipygian Christensen: right now the discussions of a confflict resolution process impacts that reform..
[13:15] Callipygian Christensen: if that comes into being, the SC would likely become the place of final appeal .
[13:15] Garnet Psaltery raises hand
[13:16] Callipygian Christensen: Aliasi..II dont disagree..but feel if it is not going to be used, then a law etc should be removed
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: if it IS going to be used, it should exist in a form that it CAN be
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, Lilith..any comments before Garnet?
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: none here atm
[13:18] Arria Perreault: no
[13:18] Callipygian Christensen: ok..Garnet?
[13:18] Garnet Psaltery: Aliasi, I'm not sure if you're saying let's not do this at all - if you are then I have to say we are at present helpless in the face of poison. Done.
[13:19] Callipygian Christensen: So, I think we are agreed that the whole package of items that crop up using 'judiciary, impeachent, hearing' etc needs review and updating or removal?
[13:20] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you Garenet.
[13:20] Lilith Ivory: I strongly agree
[13:20] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, Aliasi?
[13:21] Arria Perreault: yes, I agree
[13:21] Aliasi Stonebender: I think it could use a review, yes.
[13:22] Callipygian Christensen: Delia did some of thw work on this during the previous committee, as did I..sowe can build on that to draft a starting document for this.
[13:23] Callipygian Christensen: I suggest we do that so there is *something* to start discussions around..would any of you three also like to work on this?
[13:23] Aliasi Stonebender: I could certainly help, insofar as I can.
[13:24] Arria Perreault: I can help too
[13:24] Callipygian Christensen: Once the draft is created, we post it for discussion to get it moving forward.
[13:24] Callipygian Christensen nods. Are we agreed that I will consilt with Delia, Arria and Aliasi to create this draft?
[13:25] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:25] Lilith Ivory: fine for me
[13:26] Callipygian Christensen: Ill take Aliasi as a yes since she agreed to work on it
[13:26] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you.
[13:26] Callipygian Christensen: New business Item 1
[13:26] Callipygian Christensen: Moderation responsibilities
[13:27] Callipygian Christensen: When posts are flagged for moderation, it is expected that any member of the SC can respond.
[13:27] Garnet Psaltery excuses herself to get dinner
[13:28] Aliasi Stonebender: That's the ideal, certainly.
[13:28] Arria Perreault: in some cases, it is better to ask the other members
[13:28] Callipygian Christensen: Somtimes I feel that 'Dean' is viewed as Do Everything Ask Nothing' So I am asking each of you to get involved in moderation at that level.
[13:29] Callipygian Christensen: Soro is handling the most recent flagged post, at my request...
[13:29] Callipygian Christensen: and certainly feel free to consult other moderators before acting..
[13:30] Callipygian Christensen: . There are not a lot of flagged posts, most citizens using the Forums accept that it is a place of frank and often debatable information..
[13:30] Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, I need to actually log into the moderator panel more often, I often just sweep the boards normally.
[13:31] Callipygian Christensen: but we should have some system to ensure that anything flagged is responded to in a reasonable time frame.
[13:31] Callipygian Christensen: Aliasi..when something is flagged I see the pot marked in red..
[13:31] Callipygian Christensen: post
[13:31] Callipygian Christensen: and the topic also..
[13:32] Callipygian Christensen: that may be because I always login, instead of reading as a guest.
[13:32] Lilith Ivory has never seen something like that while reading the forum
[13:32] Arria Perreault: Stupid question : do we get a push information (like a mail) when a post is flagged ?
[13:32] Aliasi Stonebender: I don't believe so, unless there's a setting I missed.
[13:33] Callipygian Christensen: No Arria - and I dont know if it can be set to do so. The flaming red iw what tells me.
[13:33] Callipygian Christensen: Ok, I will talk to Gwyn and see what I have set that you don't .
[13:34] Arria Perreault: ok ..it means that we have to visit the forum regularly logged into the system
[13:34] Callipygian Christensen: I will not be inworld or reading Forums from feb 1 - 12 and March 1 through 8..
[13:35] Callipygian Christensen: so I ask each of you to make sure the Forums are checked during that time.
[13:35] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:35] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:35] Callipygian Christensen: ANything further on moderation that I need to check wth Gwyn?
[13:35] Aliasi Stonebender: right
[13:37] Callipygian Christensen: hearing nothing, on with item 2 of new business
[13:37] Arria Perreault: not from me
[13:37] Callipygian Christensen: this is actually quite 'old' business. The idea of a standardized form was rasied a couple of years ago and fell through the cracks.
[13:38] Callipygian Christensen: Since new citizens dont always know how to petition, and old citizens may never have needed to, a standardized form was felt to be beneficial.
[13:39] Lilith Ivory: I think it might be a good idea to haqve one
[13:39] Callipygian Christensen: The text can be posted on the Forums and a notecard can be available in world.
[13:39] Callipygian Christensen: So..who would like to volunteer to draft one ?
[13:39] Arria Perreault: Yes, I think it this a good idea. We could also add a FAQ
[13:41] Callipygian Christensen litens to the Jeopardy theme playing in her head while she waits for a volunteer
[13:42] Lilith Ivory looks at her nails but thinks she should maybe raise her hand as she is not involved of the impeachment mess
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: I can do it
[13:42] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[13:42] Callipygian Christensen: thank you Lilith - nd perhaps you can ask Soro to work on it with you
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: I will make a draft and find me one ore more fellow members to have a look on it
[13:43] Callipygian Christensen: Post it to the SC discussion when ready and members can give their input.
[13:43] Lilith Ivory: ok
[13:43] Aliasi Stonebender: I'd offer, but I honestly don't know if I'd have the time.
[13:44] Callipygian Christensen nods to Aliasi - if you can give your thoughts in Discussion that would help
[13:44] Callipygian Christensen: Ok..finally..administrative items
[13:45] Callipygian Christensen: I've placed the URLs of the notices of recent moderation and petition requests in the agenda so they will be recorded in the transcript/journal
[13:46] Callipygian Christensen: As I said, I will be out f SL and the Forums for a few weeks in the next two months, so Lilith as pro tempore will be acting Dean during that time.
[13:47] Callipygian Christensen: Do any members of the SC have any thoughts, comments, before we set next meeting date?
[13:47] Arria Perreault: no
[13:49] Aliasi Stonebender: Not as such, no.
[13:49] Callipygian Christensen: Beb 16th is a Sunday - we have usually met at 8 AM..is that ok for people?
[13:49] Callipygian Christensen: Feb
[13:49] Arria Perreault: fine for me
[13:49] Lilith Ivory: fine for me if nothing unexpected happends
[13:50] Callipygian Christensen: ok..Feb 16th at 8 AM it is.
[13:50] Callipygian Christensen: I would like to thank the citizens who attended today, and thank the SC members for an efficent meeting
[13:50] Lilith Ivory: thank you Calli
[13:50] Callipygian Christensen: Are there any relevant questions from those observing?
[13:51] Shep (shep.titian): nothing thanks
[13:51] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): nope, nothing
[13:51] Aliasi Stonebender: Sundays are generally bad for me, but this is known.
[13:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nomaam
[13:51] Lilith Ivory: I could do anyother day too
[13:51] Callipygian Christensen: then may I have a motion to adjourn?
[13:52] Callipygian Christensen: Aliasi..if you could send me some preferred times /days, I can try to fit aht in with the Euro and NA schedules too
[13:53] Aliasi Stonebender: any other day works, basically.
[13:53] Callipygian Christensen: and time of day Aliasi?
[13:55] Callipygian Christensen: ok..I will talk to her later about times
[13:55] Callipygian Christensen: No one wants to adjourn?
[13:55] Lilith Ivory: I move to adjourn lol
[13:56] Callipygian Christensen: I'll second that
[13:56] Aliasi Stonebender: times are fine, sorry
[13:56] Callipygian Christensen: all in favour?
[13:56] Aliasi Stonebender: it's just Sunday is usually already occupied with RL events for me
[13:57] Callipygian Christensen: Understood Aliasi - we'll schedule future meetings to accomodate where we can.
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:57] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[13:57] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:58] Aliasi Stonebender: aye
[13:58] Callipygian Christensen: we are adjourned
[13:58] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington):
