Thanks once more for everybody who attended the informal debate on Nov 6th, 2013, at 3 PM SLT, at the Red House Forest in Neufreistadt!
Here goes the transcript:
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, Vic!
[15:11] Io: Hi Lilith ::-)
[15:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sadly MT was naked and squatting
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[15:11] AbbyRose Abbot: hi lo
[15:11] Io: Hi Abby
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just grab a seat and enjoy
[15:11] AbbyRose Abbot: and Vic
[15:11] Vic Mornington: ello
[15:12] Io smiles at everyone
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me start by apologising again. Unfortunately, my RL schedule has prevented me to be around during the official debates
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you still deserve a chance to ask questions to candidates,
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so here am I lol
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although this one is not 'official' I'll try to stick to the rules, a brief intro of 2-3 minutes, and then it's up to you guys
[15:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no notecard to copy & paste haha so this will be improvised....
[15:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *be
[15:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For those of you who haven't seen me around much... I have deliberately stayed away from the CDS politics for quite a while. A couple of years and a bit more if my memory serves me right
[15:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a great reason for that
[15:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that a *democratic* community like ours,
[15:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: benefits most when there is 'fresh blood' at the helm
[15:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning: new citizens have new ideas, new requests, and they should be the ones pushing forward
[15:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you believe in democracy — as opposed to believing in 'maintaining power' — the right thing to do is to step back a bit,
[15:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and allow others to manage the community for a while
[15:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMh. So that's why I'm not around much pestering people in the forums and in in-world meetings,
[15:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as I used to do... every day... hehe
[15:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, however, I have this nagging feeling that things are straying a bit away from course, and I need to give you a short overview of how things were managed, say, half a decade ago
[15:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You all know how SL is.
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One day people are here, the next they aren't
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots of rotativity
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's not 'bad', nor 'good', it's just how things are.
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even people who are strongly commited to SL might suddenly develop new interests.
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And possibly come back at a later time
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, back in the ancient days of the CDS, we were aware of this
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And so our politics were based on a few principles...
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One person, one vote. That should be obvious — but to some, it still isn't
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the vote goes on ideas … not people.
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? Because one term, 6 months, is a lot of time
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The person you've voted upon on the beginning of the term might not be around in 2 weeks... what happens next?
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, back then we thought... let people group together,
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: formulate their ideas,
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: make sure everybody knows what the group has in mind for the CDS,
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then people would vote on those ideas.
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If someone from the group would leave... you'd be sure that at least the ideas you'd voted upon would be carried out by someone else in the group.
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Those groups were called 'factions'....
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we abolished that concept.
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, elections are a bikini contest: you vote in whoever is more popular, fashionable, well-spoken
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might have great ideas, sure — but will they be around to carry them out?
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Our RA is mostly a group of individuals with ideas. Who, somehow, will need to figure out a common goal.
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You might think this would never work,. but it's not true.
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happened was a little... perverse.
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Instead of knowing in advance which groups are around, and what ideas they have,
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we have 'hidden' groups with hidden agendas,
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who present individuals as candidates
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And rotate chairs among them. A bit like Putin
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: When the RA is seen as weak, laws are passed to make the Chancellor stronger.
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the Chancellor is too strong, laws are passed to make the RA stronger. And so forth.
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is problem #1 which I propose to deal with. Look well into the 'hidden power structure' of the CDS, and make sure that it's ot hidden any more.
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's fine to group together.
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's actually an universal right!
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it's also important for eerybody to know which groups there are and what their plans for the CDS are.
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, now, problem #2.
[15:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia waves at tan.
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I get this impression — I hope to be wrong! — that there is a certain tendency of excluding new citizens from the CDS.
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A lot of reasons are given for that
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have not enough land...
[15:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to redevelop sim X or Y....
[15:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don't know if these new people aren't alts...
[15:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We cannot grow fast, or we'll get bankrupt...
[15:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are plenty of those strange reasons given, and they become creative over time.
[15:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So creative, in fact, that people start to believe in them.
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose to abolish any reason for preventing new citizens to join the CDS.
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I succeed or not, that depends on your vote hehe
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This has also some side-effects
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apparently, it's unclear what land is 'reserved for friends'
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and which is not
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose to clarify all that and make sure that available land is sold fairly
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wiuthout, uh, 'preferences'
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or 'pre-orders by mysterious friends'
[15:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: BRAVO
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: giving everybody who wishes more land fair and equal access to whatever is available
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, issue #3
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have some concerns that sometimes the Covenants are either too hash.... or too lenient
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I saw Roman temples in NFS and modern furniture in public places on Colonia Nova
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Similarly, some people are building according to the theme... and get nagged
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for all sorts of reasons — "it's too clean for a Roman building"
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, please don't misunderstand me: I'm all for the Covenants and keeping them in theme.
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the same fairness has to be dealt for every citizen
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not everybody is a masterclass builder, but is still allowed to build — so far as it is in theme
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do have structures to help people out, if they need — e.g. the New Guild
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we also have structures to 'police' the builds to make sure they comply
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, currently, it's impossible to file complaints
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either because the COvenants were not being applied — or the reverse
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose to deal with that as well
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And last but not least, issue #4
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no more than #4 — one term is too short for more!
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is dealing with the Chancellor.
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brief history: the CDS lived for several years without a Chancellor
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: At some point, we needed someone to manage things ona daily basis,
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which was hard since the RA only met weekly (back then)
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the office of the Chancellor was created, who was a civil servant
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone who would deal with things that didn't require 'decision' (from a legal point of view)
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As time passed,
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Chancellor's powers grew more and more.
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, because the Chancellor is elected in the same way as the RA,
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Chancellor feels — justly so — that he or she has the same rights and powers to do whatever they want, thanks to the people's vote in him or her.
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. That's ok... if it's not abused... and if we have enough checks in place
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I feel that we don't. I propose to start curbing the Chancellor's power
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the first issue will be the way he or she deals with land issues. But not only that. Fiscal responsibility will also be on the top of the list.
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[15:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was WAY more than 3 minutes
[15:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more like 30!
[15:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for listening And now it's your turn to ask!
[15:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: go gwyn !
[15:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now I can say hi to Tandra
[15:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: You said 15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose to abolish any reason for preventing new citizens to join the CDS... how will you propose we do that.
[15:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is tied to #4, powers of the chancellor
[15:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jos is sadly not around us, he had to leave us
[15:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He proposes a mechanism where land attribution is not directly in the hands of the Chancellor
[15:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but held by either an automatic mechanism or an independent group
[15:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either suggestion is fine with me. I suppose an automated mechanism is easier — people just somehow click on a cube and show their intent to buy land
[15:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this is publicly validated, so there are no surprises
[15:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Details are to be roughened out in further debates But for now, I just wish to express my wish that the power to say who buys land and who doesn't cannot be in the hands of a single person, without recourse.
[15:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That, for me, is unacceptable.
[15:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It could even be a post on the forums
[15:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty
[15:36] AbbyRose Abbot: I appreciate that thought.
[15:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm aware it's hard to develop a fail.proof system that cannot be 'gamed'. But that doesn't mean we cannot make an effort to do the best we can!
[15:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I've heard you guys have crucified the other candidates with questions Don't be shy, I'm still here
[15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead, dear Cleo
[15:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: What do you think about the fact that now with 75 citizens we just get 5 RA seats. and no term limits
[15:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's such a tough issue!
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm aware that teh reason we just have 5 seats,
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was mostly because there were no candidates in the past few years
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which meant that the last RA was 'acclamated' and not even elected
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shocking!
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
[15:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for this election we have 11 candidates
[15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This shows that the tide is turning
[15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: People are more willing to serve!
[15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is encouraging,
[15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I'm prepared to propose that we abolish the 5-seat-limit rule
[15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for term limits, I'm generally against having NO term limits
[15:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but, again, I udnerstand why these were lifted
[15:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I can say is that people continue to show their willingness to serve as they are showing on these elections,
[15:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is no reason why we don't limit holding office for two consecutive terms just as before.
[15:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: People can still 'switch chairs' if they're so keen in power.... hehe
[15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's what I can say for now. I'm aware this will be a polemic discussion at the RA, though
[15:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty
[15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn shouts: Hi Delia!
[15:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (she's far away)
[15:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: did you answer the debate questions on the foru..
[15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ugh no
[15:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: m
[15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn blames herself
[15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry
[15:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: V1) Many citizens of CDS indicate they have no interest in politics. How do you plan to engage those citizens to ensure that you represent the 'silent majority', as well as those who are very vocal about their needs and wants.
[15:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: someone else go
[15:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: dont put that before someone else with a Q
[15:42] AbbyRose Abbot: I have a question concerning Locus, knowing Tandra, Vic, and I have a vested interest there.
[15:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question though! I have a simple answer! I will continue to hold informal debates regularly, even if I'm not elected
[15:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, go ahead Abby!
[15:44] AbbyRose Abbot: It was proposed that the relocation could be based on seniority: another on the people there putting in their prefrances in order of 1,2,3. What is your view?
[15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha a very tricky question
[15:44] AbbyRose Abbot:
[15:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, you see, no matter how I answer,
[15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there will be always someone who will be benefited, and someone who will be prejudiced
[15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To be honest, from a strictly ethical point of view,
[15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abhor anything which has the word 'seniority' in it,
[15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because it somehow gives the idea,
[15:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the 'older' you are in the CDS the 'more rights' you have.
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, ethically speaking, I cannot agree with that.
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a democracy, *every citizen has exactly the same rights*
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It doesn't matter if you've just arrived yesterday,
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or are a founding member of the CDS
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (fortunately, there is just one left!)
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that's my ethical answer.
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I also understand the reverse side of the coin:
[15:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people who have invested a lot of their time in LA,
[15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: making it the beautiful sim it is today,
[15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: are naturally resentful that they get kicked out just because they were unlucky in the draw
[15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I would PREFER,
[15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: even though it might not be POSSIBLE,
[15:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: would be to put everyone with an interest in a plot in LA together,
[15:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and let them discuss in a friendly way who gets what.
[15:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me just tell you a very short story where this actually worked out.
[15:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: When I was studying at uni,
[15:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we had a similar issue
[15:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You could pick three different schedules for classes,
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: each had different slots, so you might be lucky and have all classes without 'holes'
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or have on class at 8 AM and another at 7 PM
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so wasting a whole day
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then we had the issue with students from other years who were repeating this year
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, well, what we did was the following:
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we got everybody together
[15:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: everybody wrote their name in a paper
[15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we would draw the names, one by one,
[15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and people would announce their preferences
[15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Students from other years,
[15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as students who were also workers
[15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who had conflicting schedules
[15:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: would have priority
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happened was the following: after the classes were being filled, I think 25 per class,
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if your name hadn't been called,
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you'd probably be re-configuring your schedule
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and go for the 2nd best choice instead of your first
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: OR
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this is the great part
[15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you'd arrange, while the 'selection' was ongoing, to switch schedules with a colleague
[15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So at the end most people would get what they wanted, or, they would get their 2nd choice
[15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did manage to do a whole schedule in just one afternoon
[15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So MAYBE we could do something similar for the LA
[15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Get everybody together, and draw names
[15:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if someone would pick your favourite choice of a plot, then everybody else would be allowed to switch
[15:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, a few would still feel that this system is unfair
[15:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But with luck most of the people would get what they want — even if not ALL they wanted
[15:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't know. This is just one of many possible suggestions
[15:53] AbbyRose Abbot: Thank you for your answer.
[15:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hope it helps!
[15:54] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Do you think they should go forward with the plan in LA as it is? You assume that moving everyone around is imperative at this point. Why cant the sim be redesigned without disturbing people ? How do we even know that is why it wasnt sold. What is the proof that because it was roman and how can you retheme with out knowing was why it didnt sell in the first place ? ..
[15:54] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[15:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ha Cleo! Seriously, I can only blame myself for not being around while this was being discussed
[15:55] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no hon it wasnt discussed
[15:55] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nvm..
[15:55] Lilith Ivory: (took us more than one year to discuss this)
[15:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[15:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my country, there was a prime.minister who acted as a dictator after the earthquake that ruined Lisbon in 1755. The major issue was not rebuilding, but making sure that everybody had their investment secured (the former properties had value)
[15:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: LMAO lil
[15:56] Lilith Ivory: starting from ..hey guys do you know we are loosing money here up to the point when we decided we need to change something
[15:56] Lilith Ivory: you have not been around during this time too Cleo
[15:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: where is the why are we losing money , and where is the data
[15:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i can read forums and i did
[15:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: show me one person who said.. i would join CDS but i dont like LA
[15:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: fix it and ill be a citizen
[15:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this dictatorial prime-minister just evaluated how much each plot was worth, flattened the city, rebuilt it from scratch, and assigned plots with similar property value to people No questions asked! Alas. That was the 18th century, and that guy was a dictator. We're in the 21th century and a democracy — we ought to be able to do much better than that!
[15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what can I say right now? ... I have serious issues in discussing how the whole process was done, and the results
[15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I can say is — will people leave the CDS in anger because of that?
[15:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: let me give you what other candidates got on this
[15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And if they leave, how many will they be?
[15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[15:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they already have
[15:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, a few did.
[15:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and they wont come if they know how they take landa t a whim
[15:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, we do have laws for eminent domain.... the government has to compensate the ones whose plots have been seized
[15:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: paying what you paid, when you had a business for five years.. is NOT compensation
[16:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 4) Vacancy rates have an impact on CDS economic stability and on the businesses and community activities of CDS; the coming changes to Locus Amoenus are a result of such vacancies. If Locus Amoenus (or any sim) continues to have empty parcels for extended periods would you propose adjustments or changes, and if so, what adjustments or changes would you suggest.?
[16:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, Cleo.
[16:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thats the Q for the debates