Commission Meeting Transcript Sept 21, 2014

Moderator: SC Moderators

Locked
User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1821
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am
Location: west-coast Canada

Commission Meeting Transcript Sept 21, 2014

Post by Rosie Gray »

[2014/09/21 10:17:30] Rosie Gray: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E7y ... sp=sharing
[2014/09/21 10:17:35] Rosie Gray: there is our Agenda
[2014/09/21 10:18:15] Leslie Allandale: I have a question
[2014/09/21 10:18:25] Rosie Gray: So, firstly, everyone here, please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums
[2014/09/21 10:18:26] Ranma Tardis: entered chat range (19.81 m).
[2014/09/21 10:18:44] Rosie Gray: so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 10:18:53] /me nods and gives permission if that's required
[2014/09/21 10:18:56] Rosie Gray: meeting called to order
[2014/09/21 10:19:04] Rosie Gray: yes, Leslie?
[2014/09/21 10:19:25] Leslie Allandale: Regarding the data gleaned from the survey and meetings
[2014/09/21 10:19:49] Rosie Gray: yes
[2014/09/21 10:19:57] Rosie Gray: hello Ranma
[2014/09/21 10:20:13] Leslie Allandale: If each had been preceded with the fact that an additional, land sim is now in the works for CDS
[2014/09/21 10:20:14] Ranma Tardis: hi Rosie
[2014/09/21 10:20:33] Rosie Gray: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 10:20:58] Leslie Allandale: I think that the important answers might have been very different
[2014/09/21 10:21:12] Leslie Allandale: And that therefore this data is unusable
[2014/09/21 10:21:22] Pat (patroklus.murakami): agree. in my view bromo's actions have actively undermined this commission
[2014/09/21 10:21:34] /me nods.
[2014/09/21 10:21:40] /me objects to that wild speculation and would rather this not turn into an attack
[2014/09/21 10:21:47] Jurgen Von Kluge: left the region.
[2014/09/21 10:21:54] Leslie Allandale: It is in no way an attack
[2014/09/21 10:21:58] Bromo Ivory: I also happen to disagree
[2014/09/21 10:22:00] Leslie Allandale: Just an observation
[2014/09/21 10:22:13] Bromo Ivory: my comments were directed towards pat
[2014/09/21 10:22:17] Rosie Gray: Gaius, your thoughts?
[2014/09/21 10:22:18] Pat (patroklus.murakami): what we can do though is talk about what people want. as opposed to what bromo and his group have decided to impose on us
[2014/09/21 10:22:47] Bromo Ivory: Pat, please
[2014/09/21 10:22:47] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): My thoughts on the procedure?
[2014/09/21 10:22:47] Leslie Allandale: land vs water is an important question that could be very much affeted by this information
[2014/09/21 10:22:47] Rosie Gray: hello Calli
[2014/09/21 10:23:01] Rosie Gray: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 10:23:12] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): My thoughts are as such...
[2014/09/21 10:23:23] Phan Kemen: entered chat range (19.94 m).
[2014/09/21 10:23:36] Leslie Allandale: So, my feeling is that if another land sim were added, many might have opted for a water sim, but we cannot know
[2014/09/21 10:23:43] Phan Kemen: entered chat range (13.34 m).
[2014/09/21 10:24:00] Leslie Allandale: So how can we in full faith give our results to the RA?
[2014/09/21 10:24:02] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/09/21 10:24:07] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think we can conclude that ppl did *not* want another roman sim. but that is being forced on us
[2014/09/21 10:24:13] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:24:31] Rosie Gray: Bromo, after Pat, then Gaius
[2014/09/21 10:24:38] Rosie Gray: and please say done when you are finished
[2014/09/21 10:24:48] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/09/21 10:25:50] Rosie Gray: are you done, Pat?
[2014/09/21 10:25:52] Bromo Ivory: I would propose we go over the data and see what this survey concludes. Then discuss the conclusions and if there is any question or desire for change
[2014/09/21 10:25:54] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/09/21 10:26:21] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:26:22] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i'm done. for now :)
[2014/09/21 10:26:35] Rosie Gray: Gaius, did you have something to say?
[2014/09/21 10:26:58] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Bromo's proposal to the Chancellor that happened in a radical way in which this commission and even the public did not know about, which was approved and rubber stamped by the Chancellor in an intransparent way, leaves the work of this commission perilously different. I think that Pat is right: Bromo's actions to undermine this commission and the democratic procedure is a fair assessment: Bromo should understand that, considering his rhetoric on the forums about how things should be equal and fair to all citizens. There is a cognitive gap there, incongruent with that rhetoric, and some might even call it hypocrisy. That said, I do not believe that the commission's findings are irrelevant now: Bromo's deeds are done and done in an undemocratic and intransparent way. I believe this sim that the commission has been working on should go through. Done.
[2014/09/21 10:27:43] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius,
[2014/09/21 10:27:45] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/09/21 10:28:35] Leslie Allandale: Since this crucial information was lacking in both the survey, and meetings, I cannot vote to use any of the information it garnered.
[2014/09/21 10:28:53] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:29:06] Leslie Allandale: And I am not sure what direction this commission should take at this juncture, if any.
[2014/09/21 10:29:07] /me raises hand.
[2014/09/21 10:29:07] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/09/21 10:29:21] Rosie Gray: Bromo
[2014/09/21 10:29:31] Rosie Gray: then Gaius
[2014/09/21 10:30:08] Bromo Ivory: I feel the survey and the work is still valid. I think if we stop, we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater - I think the commission should at least LOOK at the data, draw conclusions.
[2014/09/21 10:30:24] /me raises her hand
[2014/09/21 10:30:24] Tor Karlsvalt: entered chat range (10.61 m).
[2014/09/21 10:30:33] Bromo Ivory: I also feel there is room for all the plans. Done.
[2014/09/21 10:30:41] Rosie Gray: hello Tor
[2014/09/21 10:30:43] Rosie Gray: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 10:30:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think bromo has demonstrated bad faith with this commission. working alongside us while also planning to circumvent our work
[2014/09/21 10:31:16] /me disagrees.
[2014/09/21 10:31:22] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I think Pat's opinion is reasonable.
[2014/09/21 10:31:30] Rosie Gray: hello AbbyRose ㋡
[2014/09/21 10:31:31] Leslie Allandale: agreed
[2014/09/21 10:31:33] Rosie Gray: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 10:31:39] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Bromo acted out of bad faith to the democratic process.
[2014/09/21 10:31:50] AbbyRose Abbot: Hi :-)
[2014/09/21 10:32:18] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:32:32] Bromo Ivory: .me is following the law
[2014/09/21 10:32:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all, I accept the transcripting.
[2014/09/21 10:32:34] /me thinks the commission shoudl stop attacking and get to work?
[2014/09/21 10:32:34] Pat (patroklus.murakami): the letter maybe bromo. not the spirit
[2014/09/21 10:32:37] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I am speaking.
[2014/09/21 10:32:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I have the floor.
[2014/09/21 10:32:47] Bromo Ivory: sorry
[2014/09/21 10:32:50] Leslie Allandale: raises hand?
[2014/09/21 10:32:51] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): So quit interrupting.
[2014/09/21 10:33:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): sorry G
[2014/09/21 10:33:01] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): That said, however, the work of this commission should not be sidelined by one demagogue's deeds: the democracy and the republic should continue on. If the Dougga sim fails because the public had no say, then the blame falls squarely on this Chancellor and Bromo.
[2014/09/21 10:33:05] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/09/21 10:33:06] Rosie Gray: yes, please let's keep order
[2014/09/21 10:33:25] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius
[2014/09/21 10:33:36] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:33:36] Rosie Gray: I'd like to put in my two cents too
[2014/09/21 10:33:52] Leslie Allandale: I yield to Rosie
[2014/09/21 10:34:05] Rosie Gray: I agree with Leslie and Pat and Gaius that Bromo's actions have underminded both this commission and the spirit of the democratic process
[2014/09/21 10:34:23] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:34:25] Rosie Gray: but I also think that our work does reflect what the citizenry have said they want
[2014/09/21 10:34:39] Rosie Gray: and I don't think that it is useless
[2014/09/21 10:35:04] Rosie Gray: so, I think we should proceed with analysing our information and making recommendations based on it to the RA
[2014/09/21 10:35:05] Rosie Gray: done
[2014/09/21 10:35:17] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:35:20] Rosie Gray: Leslie,
[2014/09/21 10:35:22] Rosie Gray: then Bromo
[2014/09/21 10:35:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): ahem
[2014/09/21 10:35:31] Guilda Guisse: entered the region (110.18 m).
[2014/09/21 10:35:41] Leslie Allandale: yield to Pat
[2014/09/21 10:35:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): thx leslie :)
[2014/09/21 10:35:57] Rosie Gray: sorry Pat... did you raise your hand? (I'm having some terrible lag issues and am cutting in and out)
[2014/09/21 10:36:32] Guilda Guisse: left the region.
[2014/09/21 10:36:38] Pat (patroklus.murakami): one thing we have to sort out is whether this dougga sim changes things. we can recommend that the RA approve what our citizens actually want
[2014/09/21 10:36:44] Pat (patroklus.murakami): but at the same time
[2014/09/21 10:36:49] Sudane Erato: entered the region (63.52 m).
[2014/09/21 10:37:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): bromo is producing the sim that no one wants :)
[2014/09/21 10:37:10] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, are they in competition?
[2014/09/21 10:37:24] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we vote to bring in NFS East or West
[2014/09/21 10:37:38] Pat (patroklus.murakami): then does that compete for citizens with the dougga sim?
[2014/09/21 10:37:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): can we really afford another two rather than one sim?
[2014/09/21 10:38:07] Sudane Erato: left the region.
[2014/09/21 10:38:12] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so far i've not seen anything concrete which makes me think dougga will sell
[2014/09/21 10:38:14] Delia Lake: entered the region (196.41 m).
[2014/09/21 10:38:22] /me raises hand.
[2014/09/21 10:38:23] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and yet we are saddled with it
[2014/09/21 10:38:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/09/21 10:38:29] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:38:31] Rosie Gray: thank you Pat
[2014/09/21 10:38:44] Rosie Gray: I think Bromo is next
[2014/09/21 10:38:59] Rosie Gray: then Gaius, and Leslie
[2014/09/21 10:39:15] Rosie Gray: then I think we'll call a vote on whether or not to proceed
[2014/09/21 10:39:51] Rosie Gray: Bromo?
[2014/09/21 10:40:19] Rosie Gray: hmmm maybe he's afk
[2014/09/21 10:40:21] Rosie Gray: Gaius?
[2014/09/21 10:40:26] /me thinks that Dougga isn't as important as the work being done here. I don't think they are in competition, and frankly the sim was chosen to NOT compete. But aside fomr that, perhaps the committee can vote to censure me if we can then get to the data and the meat of the meeting? I motion for the commission to censure Bromo for doing Dougga and then move to get on the the agenda. Any seocnds?
[2014/09/21 10:40:28] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/09/21 10:40:32] Rosie Gray: oh
[2014/09/21 10:40:48] Rosie Gray: sorry... it would be nice if you would indicated... everyone... that they are speaking
[2014/09/21 10:40:58] Guilda Guisse: left the region.
[2014/09/21 10:41:12] Sudane Erato: entered the region (108.23 m).
[2014/09/21 10:41:26] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I yield to Leslie
[2014/09/21 10:41:28] Rosie Gray: is there a second to the Motion?
[2014/09/21 10:41:48] Pat (patroklus.murakami): please. motion to censure yourself? stop being a drama queen :)
[2014/09/21 10:41:59] /me thinks Rosie's sarcasm is only surpassed by her charm.
[2014/09/21 10:42:18] Bromo Ivory: Pat, we cam ehere to go over data. We've all recorded objections.
[2014/09/21 10:42:34] Bromo Ivory: I ma beginning to feel I am the only one interested in the agenda
[2014/09/21 10:42:48] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Because you're the subject of public opposition.
[2014/09/21 10:42:58] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:43:06] Rosie Gray: order please
[2014/09/21 10:43:06] Delia Lake: entered chat range (18.91 m).
[2014/09/21 10:43:08] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Now, I yielded to Leslie...
[2014/09/21 10:43:11] Rosie Gray: yes Leslie?
[2014/09/21 10:43:30] /me raises her hand yet again
[2014/09/21 10:43:38] Leslie Allandale: I am very upset by the situation, and cannot say that those emotions aren't irrelevant.
[2014/09/21 10:43:44] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:44:10] /me nods
[2014/09/21 10:44:12] Leslie Allandale: In my opinion no other sim was needed
[2014/09/21 10:44:30] Rosie Gray: welcome Delia: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 10:44:30] Leslie Allandale: and am only here because of the desire of the citizenry
[2014/09/21 10:44:50] Leslie Allandale: The question at this juncture is do we want another land sim, or a water sim.
[2014/09/21 10:45:16] Leslie Allandale: the data shows support for a water sim to follow a new land sim.
[2014/09/21 10:45:18] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/09/21 10:45:29] Rosie Gray: thank you Leslie
[2014/09/21 10:45:44] Rosie Gray: Gaius did you want to speak?
[2014/09/21 10:45:46] Rosie Gray: then Pat
[2014/09/21 10:46:00] Delia Lake: hi. I'm not moving well. lots of lag so I apologize ahead of time for out of sequence typing
[2014/09/21 10:46:03] Rosie Gray: and then let's take some comments from our guests
[2014/09/21 10:46:17] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): No, I don't.
[2014/09/21 10:46:28] Rosie Gray: okay, Pat
[2014/09/21 10:46:40] Ewan Bonham: raise Hand
[2014/09/21 10:47:37] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i move we pass on to agenda item B and so on. then we can agree to recommend that the RA commission a sim people actually want - NFS West. and we can also discuss a water sim and an outpost in another world
[2014/09/21 10:47:41] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/09/21 10:48:05] Rosie Gray: is there a second?
[2014/09/21 10:48:07] Ewan Bonham: Raise Hand as a Guest
[2014/09/21 10:48:34] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /second
[2014/09/21 10:48:36] /me would like to see the output from item A but if it gets things moving, second
[2014/09/21 10:48:46] Rosie Gray: okay, discussion
[2014/09/21 10:48:54] Rosie Gray: but first let's have the comments from guests
[2014/09/21 10:48:56] Rosie Gray: Calli first
[2014/09/21 10:49:01] Günther von Kluge Sigma: left the region.
[2014/09/21 10:49:03] Callipygian Christensen: thankyou
[2014/09/21 10:50:03] Klaüs Von Klüge: left the region.
[2014/09/21 10:50:57] Callipygian Christensen: While I recognize that there can be much frustration when people feel that unthical activity occurs, every minute spent on decalring it is a minute not spent on getting a sim that many have said they want..NFS west, east, whichever. I'd like this commission to consider dealing with it's internal issues of break of faith or whatever privately, and spend meeting tme like this getting CDS the simit wans Doone.
[2014/09/21 10:51:25] Rosie Gray: thank you Calli
[2014/09/21 10:51:27] Rosie Gray: Ewan?
[2014/09/21 10:51:39] Ewan Bonham: OK...
[2014/09/21 10:51:42] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): clap clap clap
[2014/09/21 10:51:43] /me nods
[2014/09/21 10:52:09] Ewan Bonham: I have a slightly different but related perspective... it is one more of a spiritual bent..
[2014/09/21 10:52:46] Ewan Bonham: i believe we should elevate this whole discussion to the aspect of how we treat each other as members of this community..
[2014/09/21 10:53:13] Ewan Bonham: At first it appears that the gift of the sim was generous and free to us..
[2014/09/21 10:53:52] Ewan Bonham: BUT.. it was NOT given in an upfront manner.. and so the whole matter did not get put before those who were stakeholders..
[2014/09/21 10:54:06] /me nods
[2014/09/21 10:54:09] Ewan Bonham: this feels isolationist and segregationist to me..
[2014/09/21 10:54:24] Ewan Bonham: And I think that is where the blowback is coming from..
[2014/09/21 10:55:13] Ewan Bonham: IF it had been put out in an open way... with good will and plenty of notice for comment... it may have been received a lot better and with some tweeks, might have been acceptable.
[2014/09/21 10:55:32] Ewan Bonham: BUT it was the WAY in which it was presented that pushed buttons..
[2014/09/21 10:55:33] Pat (patroklus.murakami): hear, hear!
[2014/09/21 10:55:49] Ewan Bonham: That is too bad... because it had much potential...
[2014/09/21 10:55:52] /me will note that Dougga is not part of CDS
[2014/09/21 10:55:55] /me nods.
[2014/09/21 10:56:12] /me nods.
[2014/09/21 10:56:36] Ewan Bonham: In the future.. i think matters like this should be puit in a way that allows plenty of time for all to be as involved as they would like... then you have joining together and buy in..
[2014/09/21 10:56:51] Ewan Bonham: Done
[2014/09/21 10:56:56] Rosie Gray: thank you Ewan
[2014/09/21 10:57:16] Rosie Gray: now, sorry we need to go back for a minute
[2014/09/21 10:57:44] Rosie Gray: Gaius seconded the Motion on the floor, but he is not eligible to do so as he isn't a part of this 5 member commission
[2014/09/21 10:57:50] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i agree ewan. but we need to deal with the hand we have been dealt
[2014/09/21 10:57:55] Bromo Ivory: I seconded
[2014/09/21 10:58:06] Rosie Gray: okay, did you? Sorry I didn't see
[2014/09/21 10:58:08] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/09/21 10:58:13] Pat (patroklus.murakami): let's move on and make a recommendation for a new sim :)
[2014/09/21 10:58:23] Rosie Gray: but since we are down to 4 members only, before we move on
[2014/09/21 10:58:35] Rosie Gray: is there anyone here who is not a member of this commission who would like to be?
[2014/09/21 10:58:45] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 10:58:46] Rosie Gray: Gaius, you expressed interest before
[2014/09/21 10:58:59] /me nods
[2014/09/21 10:59:06] Rosie Gray: are you still willing?
[2014/09/21 10:59:12] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Of course. ㋡
[2014/09/21 10:59:20] Rosie Gray: okay... anyone object?
[2014/09/21 10:59:31] Leslie Allandale: no
[2014/09/21 10:59:37] Pat (patroklus.murakami): no objection
[2014/09/21 10:59:58] /me welcomes Gaius if he's allowed by Rosie
[2014/09/21 11:00:07] Rosie Gray: Then, I move that Gaius Curio be added as commission member, replacing Lilith Ivory who has withdrawn
[2014/09/21 11:00:17] Pat (patroklus.murakami): second
[2014/09/21 11:00:21] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2014/09/21 11:00:21] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 11:00:23] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 11:00:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/09/21 11:00:41] Rosie Gray: Bromo?
[2014/09/21 11:01:11] Rosie Gray: Bromo, aye or nay?
[2014/09/21 11:01:43] Rosie Gray: well, motion carries anyway, welcome Gaius ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:01:53] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Thank you ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:01:57] Rosie Gray: moving on
[2014/09/21 11:02:15] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:02:22] Rosie Gray: Leslie?
[2014/09/21 11:02:30] Leslie Allandale: 1. neither the citizenry we poled, nor the commission itself had access to information that Bromo could have given us.
2. If the information had been included in the survey and the public meetings the data might have been much different.
3. if the commission proceeds on the grounds of this tainted data, it will be overriding what might be a completely different public sentiment.
4. If the commission wishes to proceed with its mandate, it needs to add this new sentiment to its data, or it risks taking the recommendation
on its own shoulders.
[2014/09/21 11:03:32] Rosie Gray: are you done, Les?
[2014/09/21 11:03:37] Leslie Allandale: sorry
[2014/09/21 11:03:38] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/09/21 11:03:41] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Shall we make a vote to continue or not?
[2014/09/21 11:03:55] Rosie Gray: yes, that's where I was coming to
[2014/09/21 11:04:08] Rosie Gray: are you making a motion, Gaius?
[2014/09/21 11:04:08] Pat (patroklus.murakami): we already voted to move to item b on the agenda
[2014/09/21 11:04:22] Rosie Gray: okay, yes... you're right Pat, sorry
[2014/09/21 11:04:24] /me nods
[2014/09/21 11:04:27] Leslie Allandale: I did not vote for that
[2014/09/21 11:04:37] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Implicitly, then, the sim goes ahead....
[2014/09/21 11:04:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i move we agree to recommend the addition of a new full sim - NFS West
[2014/09/21 11:04:58] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second.
[2014/09/21 11:04:58] Rosie Gray: we have the motion on the table, and seconded
[2014/09/21 11:05:03] Rosie Gray: we need to vote
[2014/09/21 11:05:09] /me asks if th data suports it, you wouldn't want to ramrod things through
[2014/09/21 11:05:23] Rosie Gray: alright, wait please
[2014/09/21 11:05:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Which motion Rosie?
[2014/09/21 11:05:25] /me looks at Pat wondering if he's a pot
[2014/09/21 11:05:29] Rosie Gray: now that's two motions
[2014/09/21 11:05:51] Pat (patroklus.murakami): how are there two motions?
[2014/09/21 11:06:19] Rosie Gray: first one to move forward with this commission
[2014/09/21 11:06:20] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): There's the motion to move to B and the motion to approve the NFS W plan
[2014/09/21 11:06:26] Rosie Gray: yes
[2014/09/21 11:06:36] Pat (patroklus.murakami): we already decided to move to item B!
[2014/09/21 11:06:44] /me sighs
[2014/09/21 11:07:06] /me would want to look at the data.
[2014/09/21 11:07:09] Rosie Gray: okay I can't find it and I'm having connection issues causing blackouts
[2014/09/21 11:07:26] Rosie Gray: let's look at the data then
[2014/09/21 11:07:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): we are on item B. and my motion is to discuss a concrete recommendation. do i have a second?
[2014/09/21 11:07:48] /me wonders with all the "democratic polling citizens" rhetoric why Pat is so eager to dispense with the data and vote
[2014/09/21 11:07:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second.
[2014/09/21 11:08:07] Rosie Gray:
[2014/09/21 11:08:09] Pat (patroklus.murakami): it's a motion bromo. not a vote yet
[2014/09/21 11:08:21] Rosie Gray: that link is to the survey results
[2014/09/21 11:08:24] Callipygian Christensen: You never actually voted on 'move to item b'
[2014/09/21 11:08:24] Bromo Ivory: thanks, Rosie
[2014/09/21 11:08:33] Leslie Allandale: this is true
[2014/09/21 11:08:36] Rosie Gray: that's what I thought, Calli
[2014/09/21 11:08:40] Bromo Ivory: please give me 15 seconds or so to look at the results
[2014/09/21 11:08:47] Pip Torok: entered the region (50.53 m).
[2014/09/21 11:08:59] Rosie Gray: can someone please find the initial Motion to move onto Item B?
[2014/09/21 11:09:08] Pat (patroklus.murakami): ok then. lets vote on moving to item b if we need to
[2014/09/21 11:09:33] Rosie Gray: I know everyone is frustrated, one way or another, but let's try to proceed in an orderly fashion ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:09:36] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i move we move on to item b on the agenda
[2014/09/21 11:09:44] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Since the motion was seconded, by Bromo, let's move to vote.
[2014/09/21 11:09:52] Rosie Gray: thank you Pat
[2014/09/21 11:09:52] Leslie Allandale: discussioin?
[2014/09/21 11:09:53] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 11:09:57] Leslie Allandale: point of order
[2014/09/21 11:09:59] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/09/21 11:10:02] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 11:10:20] /me wonders why we're skipping "A" now. withdraw second
[2014/09/21 11:10:26] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): aye
[2014/09/21 11:10:27] Bromo Ivory: nay
[2014/09/21 11:10:28] Tandra Jupiter: entered chat range (2.86 m).
[2014/09/21 11:10:28] Tandra Jupiter: entered the region (2.86 m).
[2014/09/21 11:10:35] Leslie Allandale: since my question was never answered, I abstain
[2014/09/21 11:10:56] Rosie Gray: motion does not carry
[2014/09/21 11:10:59] Bromo Ivory: want this on the record the commission is skipping any and all data analysis
[2014/09/21 11:11:02] Rosie Gray: so let's review the data
[2014/09/21 11:11:08] Pat (patroklus.murakami): we have been here an hour ffs. when are we going to talk about a new sim?
[2014/09/21 11:11:09] Rosie Gray: no it is not, Bromo
[2014/09/21 11:11:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): How did the motion not carry?
[2014/09/21 11:11:33] Rosie Gray: I change my vote to nay
[2014/09/21 11:11:42] Rosie Gray: I want us to review the data
[2014/09/21 11:11:50] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Let's review the data.
[2014/09/21 11:11:53] Timo Gufler: left the region.
[2014/09/21 11:11:54] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/09/21 11:11:57] Leslie Allandale: Do you want to put up my chart?
[2014/09/21 11:11:59] Rosie Gray: you have the survey results
[2014/09/21 11:12:00] /me think's that Pat was so eager to attack Bromo that the hour is used up/
[2014/09/21 11:12:08] Rosie Gray: Bromo, please
[2014/09/21 11:12:12] Leslie Allandale: stop
[2014/09/21 11:12:19] Pat (patroklus.murakami): ok. review the data. what does it tell us?
[2014/09/21 11:12:30] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:12:31] Rosie Gray: we also have Leslie's chart
[2014/09/21 11:12:41] Rosie Gray: is it on googledocs, Leslie?
[2014/09/21 11:12:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): brb
[2014/09/21 11:12:56] Leslie Allandale: I sent copies to you.
[2014/09/21 11:13:03] Rosie Gray: okay I'll upload it
[2014/09/21 11:13:09] Rosie Gray: give me a min
[2014/09/21 11:13:24] Leslie Allandale: Most wanted a land sim, then a waterbased sim
[2014/09/21 11:13:40] Leslie Allandale: There was much discussion of a "focal point"
[2014/09/21 11:13:47] /me nods
[2014/09/21 11:13:59] Leslie Allandale: there was a lot of support for a water sim as a second sim
[2014/09/21 11:14:18] Leslie Allandale: Theme was varied, but no roman themes were endorsed
[2014/09/21 11:14:27] Rosie Gray:
[2014/09/21 11:14:59] Leslie Allandale: Topography was also an issue that varied in response, between shoreline of some sort and alpine
[2014/09/21 11:15:31] Leslie Allandale: Timo's plan was endorsed, but had competition from no other proposals.
[2014/09/21 11:16:01] Leslie Allandale: It seemed that we would have liked to put the proposal up for a design competition.
[2014/09/21 11:16:02] Rosie Gray: hello Tandra: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 11:16:11] Leslie Allandale: Which I would have recommended.
[2014/09/21 11:16:12] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/09/21 11:16:24] Rosie Gray: thank you Leslie
[2014/09/21 11:16:31] Rosie Gray: discussion?
[2014/09/21 11:16:32] Tandra Jupiter: Yes i know thank you
[2014/09/21 11:16:47] /me raises hand.
[2014/09/21 11:17:19] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/09/21 11:17:50] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:17:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I do not believe that a design competition is necessary any longer, because of how late in the term this commission is meeting. I believe that, since Timo's design has reached support, that we vote to continue with his plan.
[2014/09/21 11:18:00] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/09/21 11:18:13] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius,
[2014/09/21 11:18:15] Rosie Gray: Pat
[2014/09/21 11:18:25] /me nods re gaius
[2014/09/21 11:18:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i don't think we can get a perfect answer from the survey results. they require interpretation and leadership
[2014/09/21 11:18:54] /me is looking for Timos' plan
[2014/09/21 11:19:34] Pat (patroklus.murakami): my recommendation, based on what ppl told us, would be for NFS West and East to be our next sim plans. and for us to establish an outpost in another world
[2014/09/21 11:19:59] /me likes that we'd be looking for more than one sim.
[2014/09/21 11:20:00] Pat (patroklus.murakami): water sims are fun too but i think we need more than one to make them worthwhile
[2014/09/21 11:20:00] Leslie Allandale: this is not the survey, fyi, but data gleaned from the meetings
[2014/09/21 11:20:15] Rosie Gray: exactly
[2014/09/21 11:20:27] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and we need to think about relocation ot make them a useful addition to CDS
[2014/09/21 11:20:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): we also need to think about SLs longevity now that a new world is going to be built
[2014/09/21 11:21:05] /me nots
[2014/09/21 11:21:07] /me has some informaiton about that
[2014/09/21 11:21:12] Pat (patroklus.murakami): hence the need to start outposts in other worlds
[2014/09/21 11:21:31] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and my scepticism about a single water sim at this point in time
[2014/09/21 11:21:31] /me agrees with Pat.
[2014/09/21 11:21:32] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/09/21 11:21:39] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:21:52] Rosie Gray: Bromo
[2014/09/21 11:23:16] Bromo Ivory: I agree with pat completely. We really should plan on putting an output on another grid (or two!) - the work to allow for it to be a single government is large, but frankly is the way CDS can survive and prosper in this day and age. But ... also ... the new world may not be Freemium, but Premium, too. The plan that I have heard (from a reliable source) is details are being worke dout ...
[2014/09/21 11:23:45] Rosie Gray: hello Catz: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 11:23:47] Bromo Ivory: But ... it will have a lot more done at sevrer, with the client being lighter weight allowing for sophisticated graphics on portable devices
[2014/09/21 11:24:00] Bromo Ivory: So the new grid will be interesting, too.
[2014/09/21 11:24:42] Bromo Ivory: But from looking at the survey a NFS E and W are good moves with all of it in balance. I also agree that the RA should consider a new grid outpost, but that might require some changes to our laws and consitution.
[2014/09/21 11:24:48] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/09/21 11:24:53] Ariel Lancaster: entered the region (54.04 m).
[2014/09/21 11:25:01] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/09/21 11:25:15] Catz Jewell Lane (catz.jewell): )):))
[2014/09/21 11:25:22] Rosie Gray: comments from our guests?
[2014/09/21 11:25:22] Catz Jewell Lane (catz.jewell): Hi Everyone
[2014/09/21 11:25:38] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:25:39] Rosie Gray: please raise your hand
[2014/09/21 11:25:43] Rosie Gray: yes Tor
[2014/09/21 11:25:48] Tor Karlsvalt: thks
[2014/09/21 11:26:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree we should move forward with the NFS W.
[2014/09/21 11:26:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, we might as well start an outpost on another grid.
[2014/09/21 11:26:44] Tor Karlsvalt: We may have to move most of NFS to a new grid and have simultaneous sims
[2014/09/21 11:27:03] Tor Karlsvalt: so it would be good to begin to tackle this now rather than when we are forced to.
[2014/09/21 11:27:09] Tor Karlsvalt: done.
[2014/09/21 11:27:13] Rosie Gray: thanks Tor
[2014/09/21 11:27:42] Rosie Gray: I think that we can see from the survey that NFS W is the one that most people would like to see
[2014/09/21 11:28:01] Rosie Gray: because in some ways, it fills in the open gap between Monastery and NFS
[2014/09/21 11:28:28] Rosie Gray: I note that there was no mandate from people surveyed to get a region on another grid at this time
[2014/09/21 11:28:45] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /m raises hand.
[2014/09/21 11:28:58] Rosie Gray: Gaius?
[2014/09/21 11:29:24] Pip Torok: entered chat range (19.66 m).
[2014/09/21 11:29:26] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I would believe that we can use these results in order to continue our discussion.
[2014/09/21 11:29:41] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I would suggest that we begin to tackle some of the other points of the agenda.
[2014/09/21 11:29:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Therefore, I motion that we move onto point B of the agenda.
"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1821
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am
Location: west-coast Canada

Re: Commission Meeting Transcript Sept 21, 2014, part II

Post by Rosie Gray »

[2014/09/21 11:30:02] Leslie Allandale: second
[2014/09/21 11:30:10] Rosie Gray: discussion
[2014/09/21 11:30:26] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Are there objections?
[2014/09/21 11:30:26] Leslie Allandale: lets move on
[2014/09/21 11:30:38] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 11:30:39] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 11:30:40] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): aye
[2014/09/21 11:30:43] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2014/09/21 11:30:47] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/09/21 11:31:09] Rosie Gray: motion carries
[2014/09/21 11:31:12] Rosie Gray: item B
[2014/09/21 11:31:40] /me notices a wind change and some fachwerk should clean its chimney.
[2014/09/21 11:31:49] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:31:50] Rosie Gray: I move that we recommend a full region be added to the west of NFS and south of Monastery
[2014/09/21 11:31:51] Pat (patroklus.murakami): cough cough
[2014/09/21 11:31:58] Pat (patroklus.murakami): second
[2014/09/21 11:32:00] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second
[2014/09/21 11:32:04] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Well, third ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:32:05] Ariel Lancaster: left the region.
[2014/09/21 11:32:08] Rosie Gray: hehe
[2014/09/21 11:32:10] Rosie Gray: discussion?
[2014/09/21 11:32:21] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:32:21] Ariel Lancaster: entered the region (520.50 m).
[2014/09/21 11:32:29] Rosie Gray: Pat
[2014/09/21 11:32:41] Pip Torok: entered chat range (18.43 m).
[2014/09/21 11:32:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): there seems to be a consensus to fill the gap behind monastery with NFS west
[2014/09/21 11:32:59] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so let's buld it :)
[2014/09/21 11:33:02] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:33:16] Pat (patroklus.murakami): but that will be a rural, sparsely populate sim
[2014/09/21 11:33:31] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so let's also expand NFS to the East as well
[2014/09/21 11:33:35] Pip Torok: entered chat range (18.65 m).
[2014/09/21 11:33:45] Pat (patroklus.murakami): with another dense urban build like the NFS we know and love
[2014/09/21 11:33:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): our originating region
[2014/09/21 11:33:57] Pat (patroklus.murakami): unique in SL
[2014/09/21 11:34:04] /me nods
[2014/09/21 11:34:10] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:34:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and popular since our inception
[2014/09/21 11:34:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/09/21 11:34:18] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:34:32] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/09/21 11:34:36] Leslie Allandale: 1. my personal feeling is that CDS does not "need" any more sims. If people would stop hoarding land, there is still enough here for avatars interested in becoming citizens..
2. But, we now have an additional sim that is, basically, "fait accompli," and I feel we are now being railroaded into a consensus.
3. So, even though CDS might be able to afford two new sims, I would vote that we wait for this brouhaha to die down before recommending yet another sim to the RA.
[2014/09/21 11:35:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done?
[2014/09/21 11:35:31] Leslie Allandale: yes
[2014/09/21 11:35:41] Rosie Gray: thanks
[2014/09/21 11:35:50] Pip Torok: thanks
[2014/09/21 11:35:53] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:35:58] Rosie Gray: anymore discussion about the motion on the table?
[2014/09/21 11:36:00] Rosie Gray: Pat
[2014/09/21 11:36:07] Rosie Gray: Hi Pip: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 11:36:17] /me coughs
[2014/09/21 11:36:17] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i disagree with leslie :)
[2014/09/21 11:36:22] Pip Torok: thank you i accept
[2014/09/21 11:36:33] Pat (patroklus.murakami): it's true that the dougga sim has been railroaded through
[2014/09/21 11:36:41] /me raises hand.
[2014/09/21 11:36:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): but that' should not stop us from building the sim our citizens want
[2014/09/21 11:37:00] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:37:02] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and which we think will sell well
[2014/09/21 11:37:24] Pat (patroklus.murakami): let's build the best we can and, if all of the sim succeed then fine
[2014/09/21 11:38:02] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if they don't, then we can always let them go. this is not a 'forever and a day' proposition
[2014/09/21 11:38:04] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/09/21 11:38:05] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I would like to agree with Pat, but that would be the third sim we will have gained in a year. I think we should tread more carefully and table an NFS E for the next term. Done.
[2014/09/21 11:38:24] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:38:45] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/09/21 11:38:57] /me thinks that the RA with the right agreements could even nuke DOugga like any other sim
[2014/09/21 11:39:47] Leslie Allandale: the operative work in my previous statement was railroaded. I would do my job and recommend another sim
[2014/09/21 11:40:06] Leslie Allandale: But we have been cautioned by the citizenry to be careful.
[2014/09/21 11:40:07] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/09/21 11:40:42] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second reading of the motion?
[2014/09/21 11:41:02] Rosie Gray: any more thoughts about this before?
[2014/09/21 11:41:08] Rosie Gray: welcome Ariel: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 11:41:21] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): None here
[2014/09/21 11:41:50] Rosie Gray: [11:31:50] Rosie Gray: I move that we recommend a full region be added to the west of NFS and south of Monastery
[2014/09/21 11:42:02] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 11:42:13] Bromo Ivory: aye
[2014/09/21 11:42:17] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 11:42:18] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/09/21 11:42:18] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Aye
[2014/09/21 11:42:22] Leslie Allandale: abstain
[2014/09/21 11:42:25] Ewan Bonham: Good bye for now ... I would love to know how this turns out...:)
[2014/09/21 11:42:33] Rosie Gray: bye EWan, thanks for coming
[2014/09/21 11:42:41] Rosie Gray: motion carries
[2014/09/21 11:42:42] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): clap clap clap
[2014/09/21 11:42:47] /me applauds!
[2014/09/21 11:42:49] Pip Torok: applause ...
[2014/09/21 11:42:51] StarLight (jasmine.lordenwych): I must also go, thank you
[2014/09/21 11:42:58] Pat (patroklus.murakami): hurrah!
[2014/09/21 11:42:58] Rosie Gray: bye StarLIght ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:43:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i have about 20 mins more left...
[2014/09/21 11:43:14] Rosie Gray: okay, with that motion we covered item C
[2014/09/21 11:43:19] Rosie Gray: so let's move onto D
[2014/09/21 11:43:21] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[2014/09/21 11:43:38] Rosie Gray: Consider region theme
[2014/09/21 11:43:55] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that's implied right?
[2014/09/21 11:44:03] Leslie Allandale: Yes
[2014/09/21 11:44:03] Rosie Gray: I think it was fairly clear in the survey and talks, and also by where the sim will go, that it will be alpine themed
[2014/09/21 11:44:16] /me agrees that it's incuded
[2014/09/21 11:44:24] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I motion the new sim be Alpine themed.
[2014/09/21 11:44:27] Rosie Gray: okay, so let's consider the timeframe too
[2014/09/21 11:44:31] Rosie Gray: wait Gaius
[2014/09/21 11:44:31] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Oh...
[2014/09/21 11:44:34] /me says that the 2008 Master PLan could simply be followed, too
[2014/09/21 11:44:35] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Retract, haha.
[2014/09/21 11:44:37] Rosie Gray: let's define it a little more
[2014/09/21 11:44:54] Rosie Gray: I'd like to see it follow the same guidelines as NFS as to timeframe
[2014/09/21 11:44:59] /me nods
[2014/09/21 11:45:16] /me raises hand.
[2014/09/21 11:45:20] Rosie Gray: it gives a lot of flexibilty for people, and yet still keeps a framework to ensure a cohesive sim
[2014/09/21 11:45:24] Rosie Gray: Gaius?
[2014/09/21 11:46:03] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I agree with Rosie. I think, in terms of the sim, we should offer a medieval Alpine area with an indeterminate time period.
[2014/09/21 11:46:20] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): With an indeterminate time period, a wide range of interests can call it home. Done.
[2014/09/21 11:46:38] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think 'nfs west' is probably clear enough
[2014/09/21 11:46:58] Rosie Gray: thanks Gaius
[2014/09/21 11:47:08] Rosie Gray: anyone else? please raise your hand
[2014/09/21 11:47:13] Pat (patroklus.murakami): up to the RA to sort out the details but timo has already presented a clear plan
[2014/09/21 11:47:20] /me rememebrs the old covenant of NFS outside the city walls allowed Bauhaus
[2014/09/21 11:47:42] Rosie Gray: please raise your hands and we'll take it in turns
[2014/09/21 11:47:51] /me raises hands and says SORRY
[2014/09/21 11:47:58] Rosie Gray: okay, Bromo?
[2014/09/21 11:48:02] Bromo Ivory: :-)
[2014/09/21 11:48:33] Pat (patroklus.murakami): imove that the subsequent region is NFS East. to be delivered this term or the next one
[2014/09/21 11:48:55] Rosie Gray: Pat we are still on item D
[2014/09/21 11:48:58] Bromo Ivory: I would like to make a theme recommendation since the old theme of NFS allowed limited modern so long as it was German-Bauhaus. We should let the RA sort out the details, but I'd like to cinsider a "mideval historical preservation but set in modern times" as the theme
[2014/09/21 11:49:12] /me seconds pats motions FWIW
[2014/09/21 11:49:14] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/09/21 11:49:46] Rosie Gray: more discussion about them for NFS W?
[2014/09/21 11:49:53] Rosie Gray: or can we vote
[2014/09/21 11:50:13] Rosie Gray: or rather, make a motion to vote on
[2014/09/21 11:50:42] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i just think we should agree that NFS East follow NFS West as our recommentation to RA
[2014/09/21 11:50:43] Rosie Gray: Gaius, you started a motion... care to carry on?
[2014/09/21 11:51:10] Rosie Gray: we can consider that after this one, Pat ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:51:13] Pat (patroklus.murakami): umm. my motion was seconded
[2014/09/21 11:51:20] Rosie Gray: which motion was that?
[2014/09/21 11:51:22] /me nods
[2014/09/21 11:51:25] Rosie Gray: please restate
[2014/09/21 11:51:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): imove that the subsequent region is NFS East. to be delivered this term or the next one
[2014/09/21 11:51:59] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Vote?
[2014/09/21 11:52:17] /me seconds the vote motion
[2014/09/21 11:52:22] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 11:52:26] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): aye
[2014/09/21 11:52:26] Bromo Ivory: aye
[2014/09/21 11:52:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/09/21 11:52:27] Leslie Allandale: abstain
[2014/09/21 11:52:32] Rosie Gray: abstain
[2014/09/21 11:52:34] Ariel Lancaster: left the region.
[2014/09/21 11:52:57] Sudane Erato: left the region.
[2014/09/21 11:53:02] Rosie Gray: motion carries
[2014/09/21 11:53:09] Pip Torok: :)
[2014/09/21 11:53:29] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I motion that we recommend that the sim proposal be an Alpine Medieval themed sim set in modern times.
[2014/09/21 11:53:42] Rosie Gray: okay, motion on the theme for NFS W... Gaius are you ready for that?
[2014/09/21 11:53:44] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:53:46] Rosie Gray: lovely
[2014/09/21 11:53:49] Rosie Gray: second?
[2014/09/21 11:53:49] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): ㋡
[2014/09/21 11:54:01] /me seconds
[2014/09/21 11:54:22] Pat (patroklus.murakami): can you unpack that a bit?
[2014/09/21 11:54:38] Rosie Gray: hello Butterfli: please note that this meeting will be transcribed and the discussion posted on the forums so if you speak, you are acknowledging acceptance of that publication
[2014/09/21 11:54:38] Pat (patroklus.murakami): what does that mean compared to NFS as it is now?
[2014/09/21 11:54:41] /me withdraws the second
[2014/09/21 11:54:57] Butterfli Summers: Thank You
[2014/09/21 11:55:04] Pat (patroklus.murakami): noting we are in a modern monstrosity building in a supposedly medieval sim :)
[2014/09/21 11:55:20] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:55:26] /me notes that she likes the MoCa building
[2014/09/21 11:55:29] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 11:55:30] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Pat: the theme of NFS is as follows: "The city of Neufreistadt is modeled after a medieval Bavarian city with a surrounding valley. The time period is indeterminate."
[2014/09/21 11:55:51] /me wondered how it ever was approved
[2014/09/21 11:56:12] Rosie Gray: okay... ssshhhh everyone
[2014/09/21 11:56:17] Rosie Gray: Gaius has the floor
[2014/09/21 11:56:28] /me tolerates the MoCA with good grace :)
[2014/09/21 11:56:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Ah, I simply responded to Pat with the covenant.
[2014/09/21 11:57:35] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I would believe that there is little difference between "indeterminate" time period when compared to "medieval theme set in modern times": both cover a range of time periods from Middle Ages to Modern times.
[2014/09/21 11:58:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): done
[2014/09/21 11:58:24] /me wishes these walls would keep out the smoke! cough cough!
[2014/09/21 11:58:33] Tor Karlsvalt: :)
[2014/09/21 11:58:54] Rosie Gray: Tor, you wanted to say something?
[2014/09/21 11:59:01] /me discovers that RA must not have funded the firedept
[2014/09/21 11:59:03] Tor Karlsvalt: oh yes
[2014/09/21 11:59:06] Tor Karlsvalt: perhaps
[2014/09/21 11:59:20] Tor Karlsvalt: we could add Rual, small town to the theme.
[2014/09/21 11:59:45] Tor Karlsvalt: Do you think that would prevent large structures.
[2014/09/21 11:59:59] /me nods
[2014/09/21 12:00:16] Tor Karlsvalt: But do agree, I think tasteful bauhaus should be allowed. done
[2014/09/21 12:00:24] Rosie Gray: thanks Tor
[2014/09/21 12:00:30] Rosie Gray: any more discussion before we vote?
[2014/09/21 12:00:45] /me raises her hand
[2014/09/21 12:00:48] /me raise s hand
[2014/09/21 12:00:48] Rosie Gray: Calli?
[2014/09/21 12:00:53] Rosie Gray: then Bromo
[2014/09/21 12:01:18] Callipygian Christensen: It appears to me you are describing the AM covenant pretty much, more so than NFS. Not a 'this is wrong or right, just pointing that out
[2014/09/21 12:01:40] /me nods at Calli
[2014/09/21 12:01:40] Callipygian Christensen: Alpine Meadows has a rural, alpine theme. The time period is indeterminate. Alpine Meadows is primarily a residential sim but also allows for builds related to cultural, artistic and neighbourhood organizations.
[2014/09/21 12:01:43] Callipygian Christensen: done
[2014/09/21 12:01:53] Rosie Gray: thank you Calli
[2014/09/21 12:01:55] Rosie Gray: point taken
[2014/09/21 12:02:18] /me asks if I am up?
[2014/09/21 12:02:23] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i'd rather see NFS East and West as extensions of NFS than AM
[2014/09/21 12:02:23] Rosie Gray: yes, Bromo
[2014/09/21 12:02:46] /me agrees with pat
[2014/09/21 12:02:47] Butterfli Summers: raises hand
[2014/09/21 12:03:15] /me thinks the NFS urban extension should have the exact same covenant as NFS does today. I'd like to add back in the "Bauhaus" allowance to it, since that added a lot of character, provided it is German Bauhaus.
[2014/09/21 12:03:47] Bromo Ivory: The Rural extension I think should have the valley of NFS theme, and with the Bauhaus extension, but as you recall in both it was a limited area that allowd for it.
[2014/09/21 12:03:49] Bromo Ivory: Done
[2014/09/21 12:03:59] Rosie Gray: thank you,
[2014/09/21 12:04:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i've gtg but i hope the commission will also recommend an outpost in a new world too :)
[2014/09/21 12:04:03] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/09/21 12:04:15] Rosie Gray: okay, by Pat
[2014/09/21 12:04:18] Pat (patroklus.murakami): bye all :)
[2014/09/21 12:04:23] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Pat
[2014/09/21 12:04:39] Butterfli Summers: This may be off the subject but I have been trying to figure out what Mitteleur Means
[2014/09/21 12:04:39] Pat: left the region.
[2014/09/21 12:04:56] Butterfli Summers: means* Can someone please explain that.
[2014/09/21 12:04:58] Pip Torok: middle europe
[2014/09/21 12:05:09] /me nods at Butterfli and scratches his head.
[2014/09/21 12:05:27] Rosie Gray: are you done, Butterfli?
[2014/09/21 12:05:34] Butterfli Summers: oh yes, sorry
[2014/09/21 12:05:52] Rosie Gray: okay...
[2014/09/21 12:06:16] Rosie Gray: Gaius, can you please restate the Motion
[2014/09/21 12:06:16] Delia Lake: got to log. I'm really stuck
[2014/09/21 12:06:23] Rosie Gray: awh, bye Delia
[2014/09/21 12:06:54] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): May I amend the motion?
[2014/09/21 12:07:01] Rosie Gray: yes
[2014/09/21 12:07:21] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I motion that we recommend that the sim proposal be a rural, Alpine Medieval themed sim set in modern times.
[2014/09/21 12:07:22] /me coughs through all the smoke
[2014/09/21 12:07:39] Rosie Gray: second?
[2014/09/21 12:07:46] /me wonders for which sim?
[2014/09/21 12:07:59] Rosie Gray: jokay... add that in
[2014/09/21 12:08:10] Rosie Gray: you're right
[2014/09/21 12:08:22] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I motion that we recommend that the sim proposal for NFS W be a rural, Alpine Medieval themed sim set in modern times.
[2014/09/21 12:08:33] /me seconds
[2014/09/21 12:08:36] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 12:08:40] Bromo Ivory: aye
[2014/09/21 12:08:40] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 12:08:41] Leslie Allandale: abstain
[2014/09/21 12:08:42] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Aye
[2014/09/21 12:08:51] Rosie Gray: motion carries
[2014/09/21 12:08:54] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[2014/09/21 12:08:59] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): clap clap clap
[2014/09/21 12:09:02] Rosie Gray: whew
[2014/09/21 12:09:03] Rosie Gray: okay
[2014/09/21 12:09:08] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 12:09:13] /me raises her hand
[2014/09/21 12:09:21] Rosie Gray: thanks... now can we stand staying here any longer?
[2014/09/21 12:09:31] Rosie Gray: yes Bromo, then Calli
[2014/09/21 12:09:34] Pip Torok: :))
[2014/09/21 12:10:19] Rosie Gray: Bromo I cannot tell if you are responding
[2014/09/21 12:10:21] /me thinks we shoudl recommend that NFS E carry on the same theme as NFS, but with the addition of bauhaus in a limited area of the non urban environment.
[2014/09/21 12:10:26] /me motions that
[2014/09/21 12:10:52] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/09/21 12:11:00] Rosie Gray: is there a second?
[2014/09/21 12:11:01] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second, if that can be made into a proper motion
[2014/09/21 12:11:13] Rosie Gray: discuss
[2014/09/21 12:11:34] Rosie Gray: I wonder why you would want the bauhaus in the non-urban environment
[2014/09/21 12:11:42] Rosie Gray: why would you want it in the rural area?
[2014/09/21 12:11:59] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 12:12:13] Rosie Gray: yes Bromo
[2014/09/21 12:12:46] Bromo Ivory: I like the old covenant for the valley in NFS that allowed some Bauhaus builds. I think it can add character. I am not wed to the idea
[2014/09/21 12:13:06] /me raises hand.
[2014/09/21 12:13:14] Rosie Gray: are you done, Bromo?
[2014/09/21 12:13:17] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/09/21 12:13:20] Rosie Gray: Tor?
[2014/09/21 12:13:24] /me raises hand
[2014/09/21 12:13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: thks
[2014/09/21 12:13:31] Rosie Gray: then Gaius
[2014/09/21 12:13:44] /me looks at the clock
[2014/09/21 12:14:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I do remember several bauhaus builds in the valley when I came to CDS. They seemed to fit in as long as they were not huge or in the center of the sim.
[2014/09/21 12:14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[2014/09/21 12:14:21] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/09/21 12:14:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I think it would be more appropriate to broaden it from simply Bauhaus to modern architecture.
[2014/09/21 12:15:16] Ranma Tardis: please excuse me
[2014/09/21 12:15:20] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Ranma
[2014/09/21 12:15:21] Rosie Gray: bye Ranma
[2014/09/21 12:15:25] Bromo Ivory: (Modern with an alpine theme?)
[2014/09/21 12:15:29] Pip Torok: bye ranma
[2014/09/21 12:15:30] Ranma Tardis: left the region.
[2014/09/21 12:15:50] Rosie Gray: done, Gaius?
[2014/09/21 12:16:02] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): The broader wording reflects an ability for citizens to have a diverse expression, especially contrasted with the Bavarian town
[2014/09/21 12:16:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): It just needs to be zoned correctly. Done.
[2014/09/21 12:16:24] Rosie Gray: I like that, myself
[2014/09/21 12:16:37] Rosie Gray: as long as we specific rural
[2014/09/21 12:16:39] /me likes it too
[2014/09/21 12:16:46] Rosie Gray: so nobody slaps up an office tower
[2014/09/21 12:16:56] /me nods
[2014/09/21 12:17:14] Rosie Gray: care to amend the motion again, Gaius?
[2014/09/21 12:17:24] Callipygian Christensen: no no..
[2014/09/21 12:17:39] Rosie Gray: Calli?
[2014/09/21 12:17:40] Callipygian Christensen: Gauius's motion was NFS W..Bromo's was NFS E
[2014/09/21 12:17:48] Callipygian Christensen: sorry
[2014/09/21 12:17:50] Rosie Gray: aaah, sorry
[2014/09/21 12:17:53] /me nods. let me do that
[2014/09/21 12:18:10] Rosie Gray: lost my place
[2014/09/21 12:18:47] Callipygian Christensen: (and hand is still raised for when committe members are done)
[2014/09/21 12:19:02] /me nods at Calli
[2014/09/21 12:19:18] Bromo Ivory: I motion that we recommend that for NFS E an identical theme as NFS, with an allowance for modern architecture in the rural section of it.
[2014/09/21 12:19:38] Rosie Gray: is there a second?
[2014/09/21 12:19:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second
[2014/09/21 12:19:52] Rosie Gray: Calli?
[2014/09/21 12:20:12] Callipygian Christensen: no..go ahead..you have a motion on the floor..my comment can apply to both
[2014/09/21 12:20:17] Rosie Gray: okay
[2014/09/21 12:20:19] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 12:20:23] Bromo Ivory: aye
[2014/09/21 12:20:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Aye
[2014/09/21 12:20:25] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 12:20:28] Leslie Allandale: abstain
[2014/09/21 12:20:33] Rosie Gray: motion carries
[2014/09/21 12:20:40] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[2014/09/21 12:20:43] Rosie Gray: okay
[2014/09/21 12:20:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): clap clap clap
[2014/09/21 12:20:49] Rosie Gray: Calli... our comment?
[2014/09/21 12:20:53] Rosie Gray: your*
[2014/09/21 12:21:06] Callipygian Christensen: As a commission I believe you are recommending a general theme, and not the wording of the actual covenant, so I just wanted that on the record?
[2014/09/21 12:21:21] Rosie Gray: yes that's correct, and thank you for mentioning it
[2014/09/21 12:21:34] Rosie Gray: of course the covenant would be far more detailed
[2014/09/21 12:22:05] Rosie Gray: I'd like to reconvene this commission to carry on with E,F, and G points
[2014/09/21 12:22:14] /me seconds
[2014/09/21 12:22:14] Rosie Gray: given the length of time we have already been here
[2014/09/21 12:22:21] Rosie Gray: thanks
[2014/09/21 12:22:53] Rosie Gray: I'll make that a motion then, to reconvene this commission and carry on with tabled items.
[2014/09/21 12:23:00] /me seconds
[2014/09/21 12:23:00] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): second
[2014/09/21 12:23:03] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/09/21 12:23:05] Bromo Ivory: aye
[2014/09/21 12:23:05] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2014/09/21 12:23:07] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/09/21 12:23:09] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): aye
[2014/09/21 12:23:12] Pip Torok: aye
[2014/09/21 12:23:13] Rosie Gray: motion carries
"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas

Bromo Ivory

Re: Commission Meeting Transcript Sept 21, 2014

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Despite what appeared to be a planned setup (last minute announcement of the meeting being open to the public, and with public particiaption - all good in principle, but in this case we now know Rosie prefers private meetings unless it suits her purpose otherwise, and is willing to put it to a vote, unless it suits her purpose as well) to waste the commissions time (1 hour) with attacking me, I am very happy that the idea that the commission felt undermined proved incorrect.

The approval to recommend, not ONE but TWO sims is proof enough of this. And in fact, so eager was the commission, it nearly skipped over all the citizen input (look below to see) - I had to remind them to examine the data, actually. Though the proposals and motions they had issued before examining the data was the proposal they had voted for anyway after a perfunctory examination of data.

Great work, and I look forward to helping flesh this out a little (there are other items to be discussed, along with the plan).

Seems a fire has been lit under the commission. Glad there is now a sense of urgency, as well, when there wasn't one before.

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1821
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am
Location: west-coast Canada

Re: Commission Meeting Transcript Sept 21, 2014

Post by Rosie Gray »

Bromo, accusations about me 'prefering private meetings' when you have gone behind this commission's back with your plans for Dougga are rich. For the record, the 'private meetings' were for planning purposes to decide how we would gather data from the citizens on what they prefer for a new sim. That's a helluva lot more than YOU and your cohorts did with Dougga. The only 'private meeting' was the first planning meeting, and there is nothing at all nefarious about that so stop insinuating that there is.

Also for the record, you did absolutely nothing to forward the work of this commission other than to show up for a couple of meetings. All of the actual work was done by the rest of the team. Don't you dare attack me or the rest of the commission that has been working in good faith when you work behind our backs, and subvert the democratic process.

I will request that your comment above and this one be moved to another thread as this thread is only for announcements. Don't do it again.
Bromo Ivory wrote:Despite what appeared to be a planned setup (last minute announcement of the meeting being open to the public, and with public particiaption - all good in principle, but in this case we now know Rosie prefers private meetings unless it suits her purpose otherwise, and is willing to put it to a vote, unless it suits her purpose as well) to waste the commissions time (1 hour) with attacking me, I am very happy that the idea that the commission felt undermined proved incorrect.

The approval to recommend, not ONE but TWO sims is proof enough of this. And in fact, so eager was the commission, it nearly skipped over all the citizen input (look below to see) - I had to remind them to examine the data, actually. Though the proposals and motions they had issued before examining the data was the proposal they had voted for anyway after a perfunctory examination of data.

Great work, and I look forward to helping flesh this out a little (there are other items to be discussed, along with the plan).

Seems a fire has been lit under the commission. Glad there is now a sense of urgency, as well, when there wasn't one before.
"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas

Bromo Ivory

Re: Commission Meeting Transcript Sept 21, 2014

Post by Bromo Ivory »

Rosie Gray wrote: Also for the record, you did absolutely nothing to forward the work of this commission other than to show up for a couple of meetings. All of the actual work was done by the rest of the team. Don't you dare attack me or the rest of the commission that has been working in good faith when you work behind our backs, and subvert the democratic process.
Insults will get you nowhere.

I am not attacking the commission - take a deep breath and read what I wrote. The commission did good. A fire got lit under all of us, and we got much of the recommendation done.

Though I did think it was in incredibly poor taste, sleaziness, trashiness and showed an unwarranted vindictiveness at your hour long commission-time-wasting ambush. I have dealt with far worse than anything you could ever arrange to dish out, Rosie. And over what? Expanding CDS by more than one method? Truly you have got tied up in knots over this over NOTHING. It makes me sad for you.

Oh and the democratic process was hardly subverted, too. And the commission wasn't either.

But I would say that YOU have subverted common decency.

Locked

Return to “New Region Commission -21st RA”