Commission Meeting Transcript October 3, 2014

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Commission Meeting Transcript October 3, 2014

Post by Rosie Gray »

[color=]2014/10/03 14:11:25] Rosie Gray: This meeting is called to order[/color]
[2014/10/03 14:11:41] Rosie Gray: the commission members are myself, Bromo, Leslie, Pat, and Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:11:54] Michel Manen: hello stephen
[2014/10/03 14:11:59] Michel Manen: hello meta
[2014/10/03 14:12:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hello stephen xootfly
[2014/10/03 14:12:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: arria
[2014/10/03 14:12:08] Butterfli Summers: Hi Stephen :)
[2014/10/03 14:12:12] Rosie Gray: we will discuss the items on the Agenda first, then the advisors who are Arria, Gwyn, and Widget
[2014/10/03 14:12:20] Stephen Xootfly: Greetings all.
[2014/10/03 14:12:33] Rosie Gray: oh good, you are back Arria ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:12:34] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stephen
[2014/10/03 14:12:47] Stephen Xootfly: Nice seeing you again today, MIchel and Cleo.
[2014/10/03 14:12:50] Butterfli Summers: wb Arria :)
[2014/10/03 14:12:59] Rosie Gray: after commission members and advisors have finished speaking, we will take comments from everyone else
[2014/10/03 14:13:01] Arria (arria.perreault): ty ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:13:15] Rosie Gray: please raise your hands and we'll take speakers in order
[2014/10/03 14:13:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty , and its a pleasure to see you Stephen
[2014/10/03 14:13:25] Butterfli Summers: haha, i think she is speaking to me on that one lol
[2014/10/03 14:13:26] Rosie Gray: only the Commission members may vote
[2014/10/03 14:13:40] Rosie Gray: right.... item A
[2014/10/03 14:13:41] Butterfli Summers: ((i'm learning))
[2014/10/03 14:14:05] Rosie Gray: Consider finances, balance of public and private prims and any specific public spaces appropriate to the theme.
[2014/10/03 14:14:35] Rosie Gray: Leslie, Pat... ?
[2014/10/03 14:14:44] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:14:51] Rosie Gray: yes please Les
[2014/10/03 14:15:01] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:15:05] Leslie Allandale: Am I to understand that this applies to Timo's proposal?
[2014/10/03 14:15:14] Meta (metafictioner): :)
[2014/10/03 14:15:35] Rosie Gray: not specifically, Les
[2014/10/03 14:15:58] Leslie Allandale: done for a moment, ty
[2014/10/03 14:16:05] Rosie Gray: but generally in regards to the new sim that we will be makig recommendations on
[2014/10/03 14:16:44] Leslie Allandale: raises hand again
[2014/10/03 14:16:46] Rosie Gray: okay, well I would like to propose that we recommend following Trebor's proposal
[2014/10/03 14:16:47] Leslie Allandale: after pat?
[2014/10/03 14:16:57] Rosie Gray: yes sorry... Pat?
[2014/10/03 14:17:01] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:17:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): thx
[2014/10/03 14:17:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the balance of public and private should follow the theme broadly
[2014/10/03 14:17:32] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:17:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, if we are talking about NFS East it will primarily be a rural sim
[2014/10/03 14:18:03] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so not much need for public infrastructure
[2014/10/03 14:18:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we are talking about NFS West it's a different story
[2014/10/03 14:18:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): NFS has a very high ratio of public buildings and space
[2014/10/03 14:18:42] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so I would expect the complementary sim to mirror that
[2014/10/03 14:19:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): as it will largely have a similar kind of dense urban build and the kind of infrastructure that works well with public amenites
[2014/10/03 14:19:19] Pat (patroklus.murakami): like the ones we enjoy here
[2014/10/03 14:19:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): one point on finance then i'll shut up!
[2014/10/03 14:19:31] Michel Manen: ;)
[2014/10/03 14:19:48] Meta (metafictioner): '-'
[2014/10/03 14:19:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the sims should be set up to pay their way and trebor's research gives us a good model to follow
[2014/10/03 14:19:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:19:59] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:20:06] /me nods
[2014/10/03 14:20:07] Rosie Gray: Les?
[2014/10/03 14:20:11] Leslie Allandale: I agree
[2014/10/03 14:20:18] /me raises hand again
[2014/10/03 14:20:19] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:20:38] /me wonder at all :)
[2014/10/03 14:20:40] Rosie Gray: please everyone else hold on until we are finished and I will call for you to speak then
[2014/10/03 14:20:41] Leslie Allandale: whether or not it is dense, the private sector could pay for the public.
[2014/10/03 14:21:26] Leslie Allandale: I believe Trebor's analysis calls for that, so I would second Rosie's motion.
[2014/10/03 14:21:35] Meta (metafictioner): wb Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:21:49] Rosie Gray: here is Gaius who is also on this commission
[2014/10/03 14:22:11] Butterfli Summers: Hi Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:22:21] Rosie Gray: actually I didn't make a motion yet Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:22:26] Stephen Xootfly: Greetings, Gaius.
[2014/10/03 14:22:27] Rosie Gray: just wanted to put it forward
[2014/10/03 14:22:30] Leslie Allandale: Then I would so move
[2014/10/03 14:22:44] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Hello ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:22:47] Leslie Allandale: so we can discuss
[2014/10/03 14:22:50] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/10/03 14:22:50] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Apologies for being late.
[2014/10/03 14:22:55] Arria (arria.perreault): Hi Gaius ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:23:02] Meta (metafictioner): yw :)
[2014/10/03 14:23:19] Shep (shep.titian): Hi G
[2014/10/03 14:23:31] guy Daldry: oops
[2014/10/03 14:23:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: link to trebors proposal please ?
[2014/10/03 14:23:49] Rosie Gray: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5259#p30823
[2014/10/03 14:23:55] Rosie Gray: there is the link
[2014/10/03 14:24:03] Rosie Gray: please have a seat, Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:24:32] Rosie Gray: all those that recently arrived, please note that this meeting is being recorded, so if you speak you are consenting to that
[2014/10/03 14:24:44] Arria (arria.perreault): I consent
[2014/10/03 14:24:55] Rosie Gray: Gaius, the commission members are discussing item A of the Agenda
[2014/10/03 14:25:22] Widget Whiteberry: A. Consider finances, balance of public and private prims and any specific public spaces appropriate to the theme.
[2014/10/03 14:25:30] Rosie Gray: [14:16:46] Rosie Gray: okay, well I would like to propose that we recommend following Trebor's proposal
[14:16:47] Leslie Allandale: after pat?
[14:16:57] Rosie Gray: yes sorry... Pat?
[14:17:01] Butterfli Summers raises hand
[14:17:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): thx
[14:17:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the balance of public and private should follow the theme broadly
[14:17:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[14:17:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, if we are talking about NFS East it will primarily be a rural sim
[14:18:03] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so not much need for public infrastructure
[14:18:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we are talking about NFS West it's a different story
[14:18:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): NFS has a very high ratio of public buildings and space
[14:18:42] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so I would expect the complementary sim to mirror that
[14:19:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): as it will largely have a
[2014/10/03 14:25:30] Rosie Gray: similar kind of dense urban build and the kind of infrastructure that works well with public amenites
[14:19:19] Pat (patroklus.murakami): like the ones we enjoy here
[14:19:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): one point on finance then i'll shut up!
[14:19:31] Michel Manen: ;)
[14:19:48] Meta (metafictioner): '-'
[14:19:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the sims should be set up to pay their way and trebor's research gives us a good model to follow
[14:19:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:25:31] /me nods
[2014/10/03 14:26:14] Rosie Gray: do you have any thoughts about this, Arria and Widget?
[2014/10/03 14:26:48] Widget Whiteberry: I support Les's motion and Pat's analysis
[2014/10/03 14:27:09] Widget Whiteberry: nothing to add, though. Done
[2014/10/03 14:27:10] Arria (arria.perreault): As I said, my favour goes to the continuation of the Monastery sim, but not only because of the Monastery sim
[2014/10/03 14:27:46] Arria (arria.perreault): I believe we can do amazing things especially in the wintertime with a ski lodge and a ski slope
[2014/10/03 14:27:57] Rosie Gray: Arria, we aren't talking about that right now though
[2014/10/03 14:28:09] Michel Manen: ;)
[2014/10/03 14:28:12] Arria (arria.perreault): ok. sorry
[2014/10/03 14:28:18] Rosie Gray: the question is regarding Finances.. balance of public and private prims and specific public spaces
[2014/10/03 14:28:24] /me raises hand again
[2014/10/03 14:28:52] Widget Whiteberry: isn't a sski slope a specific public place?
[2014/10/03 14:28:59] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 14:29:06] Arria (arria.perreault): I don't think we need a lot of public space. one or two places are enough. And yes, the financial balance is important.
[2014/10/03 14:29:14] Rosie Gray: yes I guess it is
[2014/10/03 14:29:21] Michel Manen: i take it that most public building are already located in NFS ... and the new part of the city will be mostly residential... so the issue is really moot in this case.
[2014/10/03 14:29:27] Arria (arria.perreault): each sim must be somehow sustainable
[2014/10/03 14:29:35] Rosie Gray: Michel, please don't speak yet
[2014/10/03 14:29:59] Arria (arria.perreault): I am done
[2014/10/03 14:30:05] Rosie Gray: okay
[2014/10/03 14:30:39] Rosie Gray: so, now if the commission members have nothing else to add at this time, we'll take hands from observers
[2014/10/03 14:30:49] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:30:50] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:30:56] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:31:00] Rosie Gray: then Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:31:34] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I believe in Trebor's analysis and expertise, and I would like to note that Timo has offered a plan for both NFS E and W.
[2014/10/03 14:31:44] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:32:37] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): My only remark is that I hope that my proposal for an art deco airport in 1920s and 1930s themed Germany/Swiss is at least considered. Done.
[2014/10/03 14:33:17] Rosie Gray: thanks
[2014/10/03 14:33:19] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 14:33:24] Butterfli Summers: I like this proposal but I think the prims are way off...this does not allocate enough prims for public spaces and/or events in my opinion. I think this should be researched a little further before agreeing to this proposal or you will run into problems you already have now having to free up prims for events. I understand one will be primarily residential but you don't want to cap your prims.
[2014/10/03 14:33:44] Butterfli Summers: done. unless someone has a comment to rebut
[2014/10/03 14:33:57] Rosie Gray: it's a good point, Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:34:03] Rosie Gray: Cleo?
[2014/10/03 14:34:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Well, i just wanted to say that the ratio of public to private is determined by the plan that Trebor did is it not ?
[2014/10/03 14:34:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: in that he says what the break even has to be at what point of capacity
[2014/10/03 14:35:17] Butterfli Summers: Single-Prim Regions Private SQM 57,326 Public SQM 8,210. Private Prims 13,100 Public Prims 1,900
Double-Prim Regions Private SQM 28,663 Public SQM 36,873 Private Prims 13,100 Public Prims 1,900
Homestead Region – Monthly tier to Linden Labs US$125. Tier collected at 100% occupancy US$166.
Six Prim Multiplier – Private SQM 8,071 Public SQM 57,465 Private Prims 2,767 Public Prims 983
[2014/10/03 14:35:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so in order to meet that criteria a certain number of sq m must be private to cover the tier plus the overage built in ? is that correct, and if so ..
[2014/10/03 14:35:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty
[2014/10/03 14:35:34] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:35:39] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): 75% is his break-even, as note.
[2014/10/03 14:35:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that will determine how much land is ppublic vs private then
[2014/10/03 14:35:43] Rosie Gray: please wait Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:35:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2014/10/03 14:35:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:36:00] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:36:04] Rosie Gray: okay thanks Cleo
[2014/10/03 14:36:06] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 14:36:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sorry rosie it was a question
[2014/10/03 14:36:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can you answer it
[2014/10/03 14:36:31] Butterfli Summers: when stating public vs private, is there any clarification if he means commercial vs residential?
[2014/10/03 14:36:31] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i can :)
[2014/10/03 14:36:34] Butterfli Summers: done
[2014/10/03 14:36:49] Rosie Gray: please do, Pat
[2014/10/03 14:36:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he meant paid by tier collection privat land
[2014/10/03 14:36:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: wait
[2014/10/03 14:36:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and public land is not collecting tier
[2014/10/03 14:37:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so we have to support the public land with tier from the private land
[2014/10/03 14:37:18] Rosie Gray: that's correct
[2014/10/03 14:37:18] Butterfli Summers: ok thank you
[2014/10/03 14:37:20] Meta (metafictioner): that's a point solving when occupation rights are agree :)
[2014/10/03 14:37:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: at 75 %
[2014/10/03 14:37:28] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we take trebor's suggestions as a straitjacket then, it's true, we do end up with a specific ratio of public v private
[2014/10/03 14:37:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so if 25 percent is vacant
[2014/10/03 14:37:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we still cover teir
[2014/10/03 14:37:36] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think we should be a bit more subtle
[2014/10/03 14:37:38] Rosie Gray: Meta, everyone... please do not speak until you are recognized by the chair
[2014/10/03 14:37:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i was speaking still i though t.. but yes pat thats correct.
[2014/10/03 14:38:01] Meta (metafictioner): sry :)
[2014/10/03 14:38:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: trebors plan is very limiting, though it is sound financially
[2014/10/03 14:38:06] Pat (patroklus.murakami): let's set the breakeven point at a reasonable point (lihe the one trebor proposed)
[2014/10/03 14:38:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): sorry cleo, i thought you had finished
[2014/10/03 14:38:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: his is at 75%..
[2014/10/03 14:38:20] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:38:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you were answering me
[2014/10/03 14:38:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): you wanted an anser to your question?
[2014/10/03 14:38:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you just repeated me and made a point
[2014/10/03 14:38:39] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Point of order, Mme Chair.
[2014/10/03 14:38:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): may i continue?
[2014/10/03 14:38:50] Rosie Gray: welcome back Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:38:56] Rosie Gray: are you done, Cleo?
[2014/10/03 14:38:59] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): CLEOPATRA said she was "done".
[2014/10/03 14:39:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: kind of
[2014/10/03 14:39:10] Rosie Gray: okay, then Pat, please cntinue
[2014/10/03 14:39:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ..... i wanted to know .. because you said that
[2014/10/03 14:39:14] Rosie Gray: then Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:39:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: trebors plan is a done deal or not ?
[2014/10/03 14:39:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): ok. hush cleo, i have the floor!
[2014/10/03 14:39:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, we should set a reaonable breakeven point and trebor's work helps us
[2014/10/03 14:40:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): but that should not limit us in explorign whether more or less publlic space is appropriate for a particular sim
[2014/10/03 14:40:23] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and making recommendations to the RA
[2014/10/03 14:40:36] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:40:45] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:40:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): it is still possible to work all of that out and get a sim design we want and which is financially sustainable
[2014/10/03 14:40:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:41:03] Rosie Gray: Gaius?
[2014/10/03 14:41:31] Leslie Allandale: Call the question
[2014/10/03 14:42:12] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I believe that a 75% break even is a good and reasonable break-even, especially considering the recent trend that the CDS has had 80%+ occupancy.
[2014/10/03 14:43:19] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I also think that the more public space to accommodate a library and college and other educational facilitaties would be a good plan for NFS E, but not for NFS W.
[2014/10/03 14:43:20] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/10/03 14:43:37] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:43:38] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2014/10/03 14:43:59] Leslie Allandale: Raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:44:03] Rosie Gray: hmmm... maybe she's afk
[2014/10/03 14:44:07] Rosie Gray: Butterfli please
[2014/10/03 14:44:14] Rosie Gray: then Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:44:28] Butterfli Summers: Before this gets recommended or decided, it seems logical the we should determine what key components or areas are needed that would benefit the community, i understand the financial aspect but i say give a soft vote that is open to review once you have a full layout planned and ready to be executed, then recrunch the numbers and make changes
[2014/10/03 14:44:30] Butterfli Summers: done
[2014/10/03 14:44:49] Rosie Gray: thank you Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:44:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: rasies hand
[2014/10/03 14:44:50] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:44:52] Leslie Allandale: move to adopt Trepbor's analysis as the primary guide in determining the finances of a new sim.
[2014/10/03 14:45:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i have a comment about it ?
[2014/10/03 14:45:12] Rosie Gray: one moment please Cleo
[2014/10/03 14:45:13] Leslie Allandale: point of order
[2014/10/03 14:45:17] Rosie Gray: do we have a second?
[2014/10/03 14:45:27] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second
[2014/10/03 14:45:31] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/10/03 14:45:43] Rosie Gray: discussion (commission members and advisors)
[2014/10/03 14:45:49] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:46:03] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think i've contributed on this. nothing further to say right now :)
[2014/10/03 14:46:36] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:46:45] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:46:48] Meta (metafictioner): :)
[2014/10/03 14:46:50] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 14:46:59] Rosie Gray: I'd like an amendment, to add that some flexibility be allowed in consideration of public space useage
[2014/10/03 14:47:07] Leslie Allandale: second
[2014/10/03 14:47:08] Rosie Gray: Leslie?
[2014/10/03 14:47:21] Leslie Allandale: I believe Butterfli said it well
[2014/10/03 14:47:38] Rosie Gray: yes I agree... so you are open to a friendly amendment on your motion?
[2014/10/03 14:47:42] Leslie Allandale: We cannot give exact figures until we have more information
[2014/10/03 14:47:47] Leslie Allandale: yes
[2014/10/03 14:47:50] Rosie Gray: great
[2014/10/03 14:47:53] Leslie Allandale: I seconded the amendment
[2014/10/03 14:47:59] Rosie Gray: thank you
Last edited by Rosie Gray on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Commission Meeting Transcript October 3, 2014

Post by Rosie Gray »

[2014/10/03 14:48:08] Rosie Gray: okay, one more round of comments and then we will vote
[2014/10/03 14:48:24] Rosie Gray: anyone who would like to comment, please raise your hand
[2014/10/03 14:48:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Using Trebors plan will limit us greatly .. 75% break even means that when 75 % of the private land is being paid occupied you break even.... so you have to have 25 % more private land than that.... leaving less for public land, but ensuring a nice profit when sold out. With our large reserves .. why are we being so profit driven ?
[2014/10/03 14:48:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: oh i had raised it twice. sorry
[2014/10/03 14:48:37] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 14:48:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2014/10/03 14:48:45] Rosie Gray: okay, Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:48:46] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:48:52] Rosie Gray: then Pat
[2014/10/03 14:49:02] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:49:04] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): While I dislike CLEOPATRA's brash behaviour... I think she makes a good point.
[2014/10/03 14:49:31] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Perhaps we can accommodate more public land by having Trebor calculate with an 80% break even?
[2014/10/03 14:49:33] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/10/03 14:49:34] /me raises his hand
[2014/10/03 14:49:39] /me raises hand....
[2014/10/03 14:49:43] Rosie Gray: Pat?
[2014/10/03 14:50:01] Rosie Gray: (and I think you make a good point too, Cleo)
[2014/10/03 14:50:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that 75 v. 80, we are in danger of getting stuck in the weeks. but i would tend to prefer 80% as a break even point too. i think 75 is a bit too conservative
[2014/10/03 14:50:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:50:44] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:50:55] Rosie Gray: Cleo, then Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:50:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I think we can have break even at 90 % .........
[2014/10/03 14:50:58] Rosie Gray: then we will vote
[2014/10/03 14:51:18] Butterfli Summers: /raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:51:22] Butterfli Summers: please before the vote
[2014/10/03 14:51:25] Leslie Allandale: Is Cleo done?
[2014/10/03 14:51:33] Rosie Gray: are you done, Cleo?
[2014/10/03 14:51:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes thank you all very much
[2014/10/03 14:51:54] Rosie Gray: okay, Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:51:58] Rosie Gray: then Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:52:01] Rosie Gray: then we will vote
[2014/10/03 14:52:10] Leslie Allandale: First I think that there is a huge amount of public space standing empty
[2014/10/03 14:52:26] /me raises hand....
[2014/10/03 14:52:30] Leslie Allandale: It would be nice to make more space for citizens, regardless of profitability
[2014/10/03 14:52:39] /me raises his hand
[2014/10/03 14:53:17] Leslie Allandale: I think if we use Trebor's analysis for a guidline, we could decide either way, letting the design drive the model.
[2014/10/03 14:53:19] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/10/03 14:53:27] /me nods
[2014/10/03 14:53:32] Butterfli Summers: I just wanted to add, I think the goal here is to be breakeven as possible by trying to achieve Trebors proposal while still benefiting the community with nice public spaces and landscaping, but the amendment just added gives us the flexibility to determine and recommend where we want to change that if need be once more has been decided.
[2014/10/03 14:53:32] Rosie Gray: Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:53:36] Butterfli Summers: done
[2014/10/03 14:53:57] Rosie Gray: thank you Butterfli, and that's exactly right
[2014/10/03 14:54:00] /me agrees with butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:54:05] /me nods
[2014/10/03 14:54:09] Rosie Gray: okay, we will vote now - only commission members can vote
[2014/10/03 14:54:16] Rosie Gray: I vote aye
[2014/10/03 14:54:17] Leslie Allandale: call the question
[2014/10/03 14:54:22] Pat (patroklus.murakami): could you restate the motion as amended?
[2014/10/03 14:54:24] Rosie Gray: I just did, Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:54:36] Rosie Gray: yes, please restate
[2014/10/03 14:55:22] Rosie Gray: Les?
[2014/10/03 14:56:07] Leslie Allandale: move to adopt Trepbor's analysis as the primary guide in determining the finances of a new sim.
:
[2014/10/03 14:56:12] Leslie Allandale: with Rosie
[2014/10/03 14:56:16] Leslie Allandale: s amendment
[2014/10/03 14:56:34] Leslie Allandale: sorry, I am in ll viewer, and it is pretty horrible.
[2014/10/03 14:56:44] /me laughs
[2014/10/03 14:56:50] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): "[14:46] Rosie Gray: I'd like an amendment, to add that some flexibility be allowed in consideration of public space useage"
[2014/10/03 14:56:59] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/10/03 14:57:00] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/10/03 14:57:03] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Aye.
[2014/10/03 14:57:05] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/10/03 14:57:18] Rosie Gray: Les?
[2014/10/03 14:57:46] Leslie Allandale: move to adopt Trepbor's analysis as the primary guide in determining the finances of a new sim. with some flexibility be allowed in consideration of public space useage"
[2014/10/03 14:57:52] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2014/10/03 14:57:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[2014/10/03 14:57:58] Rosie Gray: yay
[2014/10/03 14:58:08] Rosie Gray: thank you, now we can move on to the next item
[2014/10/03 14:58:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): clap clap clap
[2014/10/03 14:58:17] Meta (metafictioner): ^^
[2014/10/03 14:58:24] Rosie Gray: and just a reminder to everyone, that these will be recommendations to the RA
[2014/10/03 14:58:27] Butterfli Summers: (very productive)
[2014/10/03 14:58:29] /me notes nothing was decided.
[2014/10/03 14:58:45] Rosie Gray: so they aren't adopted yet, and there still could be changes
[2014/10/03 14:58:54] Rosie Gray: B. Determine procedures for the new region creative process i.e. building, terraforming, gardening etc.
[2014/10/03 14:59:06] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:59:08] Rosie Gray: first commission members and advisors
[2014/10/03 14:59:19] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 14:59:19] Rosie Gray: so everyone else, please hold lyour hand down until I call for others
[2014/10/03 14:59:22] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:59:24] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:00:17] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:00:21] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I believe that the bulk of the work for the two sims should delegated to the Artisan Guild, as they represent a non-governmental organ of our estate's leading builders and original content producers whose members are coopted. Done.
[2014/10/03 15:00:35] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:00:53] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius, Pat?
[2014/10/03 15:00:55] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:01:08] Rosie Gray: not yet Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:01:31] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i guess we have to deal here with the demise of the former 'New Guild' as a chartered NGO which had special status when it came to building
[2014/10/03 15:01:39] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i'm not sure i agree with gaius on this
[2014/10/03 15:01:59] Pat (patroklus.murakami): the current Artisans' Guild is completely separate from government and independent of it
[2014/10/03 15:02:22] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so i'm not sure it's right just to give the task to them (tho they are among our most capable builders)
[2014/10/03 15:02:32] /me raises ahdn.
[2014/10/03 15:02:34] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:02:36] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): *hand, rather.
[2014/10/03 15:03:00] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so we should think about some sort of competitoin which anyone could enter. that links up a bit with item C on draft legislation.
[2014/10/03 15:03:04] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 15:03:17] Rosie Gray: thank you Pat,
[2014/10/03 15:03:19] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/10/03 15:03:25] Leslie Allandale: I agree with pat
[2014/10/03 15:03:54] Leslie Allandale: whispers: With the addition that the design and the "building" be separate "contracts.
[2014/10/03 15:03:57] Leslie Allandale: "doen
[2014/10/03 15:04:00] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/10/03 15:04:04] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:04:04] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/10/03 15:04:09] Rosie Gray: not yet Butterfli
[2014/10/03 15:04:24] Butterfli Summers: ((sorry)
[2014/10/03 15:04:31] Rosie Gray: ;)
[2014/10/03 15:04:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I understand Pat's concern, and I believe that - in the law - a clause should be written to present the sim to the Chancellor for final approval, pending ultimate RA approval.
[2014/10/03 15:05:01] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/10/03 15:05:20] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:05:24] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/10/03 15:05:38] Leslie Allandale: Why would the law need to go to the Chancellor?
[2014/10/03 15:05:50] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): May I answer?
[2014/10/03 15:05:54] Leslie Allandale: ye
[2014/10/03 15:05:56] Leslie Allandale: s
[2014/10/03 15:06:00] /me nods
[2014/10/03 15:06:26] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): The law itself doesn't go to the Chancellor unless our current chancellor intends to veto the law this commission will draft.
[2014/10/03 15:06:37] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:06:46] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): The ultimate sim will go before the Chancellor, who will "ok" the sim to be approved by the RA.
[2014/10/03 15:06:46] Rosie Gray: not yet Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:06:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: may i answer ? that isnt correct.
[2014/10/03 15:06:57] Rosie Gray: no, please wait
[2014/10/03 15:07:44] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): As the Chancellor is the executive of our government, Leslie, it is appropriate that they would determine that the sim is ready for the RA's approval.
[2014/10/03 15:07:52] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Does that make sense, Leslie?
[2014/10/03 15:08:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: :/
[2014/10/03 15:08:35] /me suggests we don't try to draft the legislation here :)
[2014/10/03 15:08:37] Leslie Allandale: lf it follows current law, and is politically expedient, then yes
[2014/10/03 15:08:51] Leslie Allandale: However it seems unnecessary to me.
[2014/10/03 15:08:54] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/10/03 15:09:17] Rosie Gray: okay thank you... Arria and Widget.. any comments?
[2014/10/03 15:09:47] Widget Whiteberry: yes... one
[2014/10/03 15:09:52] Arria (arria.perreault): yes. one too
[2014/10/03 15:10:14] Widget Whiteberry: The Powers Commission will have something to contribute to this item. I suggest asking them
[2014/10/03 15:10:32] Rosie Gray: okay, that's an interesting point
[2014/10/03 15:10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[2014/10/03 15:10:44] Widget Whiteberry: can this item be addressed in say, a week
[2014/10/03 15:10:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[2014/10/03 15:10:58] Widget Whiteberry: done, ty
[2014/10/03 15:11:06] Rosie Gray: well we are only making recommendations, don't forget
[2014/10/03 15:11:08] Rosie Gray: Arria?
[2014/10/03 15:11:42] Arria (arria.perreault): I think we should follow the process as it is described in the NL 8-2 “In-Theme” Expansion Act.
[2014/10/03 15:12:02] Pat (patroklus.murakami): :-)
[2014/10/03 15:12:09] Arria (arria.perreault): This commission is making a recommandation the the RA. Then the RA has to follow this process.
[2014/10/03 15:12:50] Rosie Gray: can you provide the details you are referencing, Arria?
[2014/10/03 15:12:58] Arria (arria.perreault): the determination of the builder could be an appeal with a clear description of the taks
[2014/10/03 15:13:12] Pat (patroklus.murakami): http://portal.slcds.info/index.php/faqs ... nsion-act/
[2014/10/03 15:13:20] Arria (arria.perreault): Phase I: PREPARATION
In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.
The New Guild would produce a draft plan, model, budget for construction and guide prices for plot purchase and monthly tier.
These materials would then be used for market research. The Executive Branch would use the materials to gauge whether there was enough interest in the new sim in the CDS and the rest of Second Life to warrant proceeding to the next phase and submit its report to the RA.
Phase II: PURCHASE
On the basis of the
[2014/10/03 15:13:20] Arria (arria.perreault): report from the Executive, the RA would decide whether to continue with the project or not. Assuming that the RA decides there is sufficient interest to build the new sim(s), the RA would agree any final adjustments to the plan, authorise the Estate Owner to purchase the new sim(s) and commission the New Guild to carry out the work. It is at this point that any questions about payment for services rendered, intellectual property rights to work carried out for the CDS etc would be resolved i.e. before work begins. Advance orders for plots would be made available to CDS citizens.
Phase III: BUILDING & PROMOTION
During this phase the sim would be terraformed, roads laid out and any public or private buildings built. Alongside the building work, the new sim would be promoted by the Public Information Officer (or Chancellor if no PIO has been appointed) within the CDS and without with lots being made available for reservation by advance purchase.
Phase IV: ESTABLISHMENT
The new sim(s) will be formally opened by
[2014/10/03 15:13:20] Arria (arria.perreault): the Chancellor once building work has been completed, allowing new residents to move in and establish their homes.
[2014/10/03 15:13:26] Rosie Gray: hello Bromo
[2014/10/03 15:13:35] Bromo Ivory: Greetings, just got home
[2014/10/03 15:13:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty arria ...
[2014/10/03 15:13:50] Arria (arria.perreault): we have two laws regardinf development : this one and the private development act
[2014/10/03 15:14:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: franchulate
[2014/10/03 15:14:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: three
[2014/10/03 15:14:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: :)
[2014/10/03 15:14:07] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:14:09] Rosie Gray: hush
[2014/10/03 15:14:15] Stephen Xootfly: HI Bromo
[2014/10/03 15:14:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: rosie .. relax !
[2014/10/03 15:14:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hi bromo !
[2014/10/03 15:14:37] Rosie Gray: Cleo, I've asked you more than once
[2014/10/03 15:14:48] Rosie Gray: do not speak unless you are recognized by the chair
[2014/10/03 15:15:16] Rosie Gray: are you done, Arria?
[2014/10/03 15:15:24] Arria (arria.perreault): yes
[2014/10/03 15:15:26] Bromo Ivory: hi everyone (Sorry Rosie, I thought greeting was allowed)
[2014/10/03 15:15:31] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/10/03 15:15:44] Rosie Gray: Bromo, we are on item B of the Agenda
[2014/10/03 15:15:49] Bromo Ivory: ty
[2014/10/03 15:15:50] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 15:15:52] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 15:15:56] Rosie Gray: Gaius?
[2014/10/03 15:16:29] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Thank you Arria, for referencing that law. However, it seems that the law itself is a little outdated, as it calls for work to be done by the New Guild.
[2014/10/03 15:16:40] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:16:47] Rosie Gray: NOT YET CLEO
[2014/10/03 15:17:09] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I think that, in this case, the Artisan Guild should be allowed to stand in for the New Guild and a competition should take place, as per Pat's suggestion.
[2014/10/03 15:17:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/10/03 15:17:17] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:17:21] Rosie Gray: Pat
[2014/10/03 15:17:34] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think we have a couple of options here
[2014/10/03 15:17:53] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:17:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): 1) we do a CN-type open contest and get ideas from lots of ppl
[2014/10/03 15:18:02] Pat (patroklus.murakami): then we find a way to choose a winner
[2014/10/03 15:18:14] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and establish work groups etc to get the job done
[2014/10/03 15:18:16] Pat (patroklus.murakami): or
[2014/10/03 15:18:31] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:18:48] Pat (patroklus.murakami): 2) we use the 'in-theme' expansion act but find some way round the absence of teh New Guild
[2014/10/03 15:19:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): that would probably mean some redrafting of the law to take account of this
[2014/10/03 15:19:06] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:19:08] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:19:09] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:19:09] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and passage through the RA first
[2014/10/03 15:19:42] Pat (patroklus.murakami): 3) private development act - only if there is someone willing to do so and we can correct the deficiencies in that law
[2014/10/03 15:19:49] Pat (patroklus.murakami): 4) something new
[2014/10/03 15:19:58] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i guess what we have to work out is:
[2014/10/03 15:20:09] /me puts hand down
[2014/10/03 15:20:10] Pat (patroklus.murakami): which of these options is quickest
[2014/10/03 15:20:24] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:20:26] /me raises hand..
[2014/10/03 15:20:36] Rosie Gray: Arria after Pat, then Leslie
[2014/10/03 15:20:55] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and which of these options will generate the most support? we want to try and find the most consensual of the methods available to us
[2014/10/03 15:21:28] Pat (patroklus.murakami): the LA rebuild has been bruising, dougga too. in fact, all of our expansions have been pretty painful! let's try to lessen the pain this time :)
[2014/10/03 15:21:29] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 15:21:57] Rosie Gray: thank you Pat
[2014/10/03 15:22:00] Rosie Gray: Arria
[2014/10/03 15:22:17] Arria (arria.perreault): ok. The task of the Guild was at the very beginning of the process. It is exactly what this commission is doing.
[2014/10/03 15:23:27] Arria (arria.perreault): for the building, maybe the RA should describe all the tasks that are to do and propose them to all groups and individuals who are interested
[2014/10/03 15:23:40] Arria (arria.perreault): the coordination is the task of the Executive
[2014/10/03 15:24:04] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:24:06] Arria (arria.perreault): in my point of view, the in-theme expansion act still work
[2014/10/03 15:24:12] /me thinking What offers better guarantees of supervision?
[2014/10/03 15:24:20] Rosie Gray: hush, Meta
[2014/10/03 15:24:41] Arria (arria.perreault): anyway it would be a good idea to improve our legislation regarding development and land management
[2014/10/03 15:24:43] Arria (arria.perreault): done
[2014/10/03 15:24:56] Rosie Gray: thank you Arria... I totally agree on that point!
[2014/10/03 15:24:59] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/10/03 15:25:09] [ARIA] Thalia daybed: whispers: MAIN MENU: Menu timed out. Touch to retry.
[2014/10/03 15:25:31] Leslie Allandale: Could we get a motion from Pat?
[2014/10/03 15:25:52] Leslie Allandale: On the line he prefers?
[2014/10/03 15:25:53] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/10/03 15:25:54] Rosie Gray: would you like to put forward a Motion, Pat?
[2014/10/03 15:26:04] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:26:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you didnt even let citizens speak to this
[2014/10/03 15:26:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i'm not sure i have a preference. i'd like to hear more discussion of the pros and cons first
[2014/10/03 15:26:20] Cadence Theas: left the region.
[2014/10/03 15:26:21] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:26:24] Pat (patroklus.murakami): the point i wanted to make was
[2014/10/03 15:26:25] Rosie Gray: there will be more discussion after
[2014/10/03 15:26:32] Rosie Gray: okay
[2014/10/03 15:26:47] Rosie Gray: now we'll open it up to everyone .... so
Last edited by Rosie Gray on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Commission Meeting Transcript October 3, 2014

Post by Rosie Gray »

[2014/10/03 15:26:51] Rosie Gray: Cleo, then Butterfli
[2014/10/03 15:26:59] Pat (patroklus.murakami): not finished!
[2014/10/03 15:27:14] Rosie Gray: oh sorry Pat
[2014/10/03 15:27:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i'm not a fan of 'just using' the in theme act even though we know that parts of it are out of date. i'd rather see it revised first
[2014/10/03 15:27:43] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done :)
[2014/10/03 15:27:55] Rosie Gray: sorry for interrupting
[2014/10/03 15:28:00] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:28:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Well i agree with Arria.. and i do want to point out why the Artisians Guild is inappropriate for an avenue to build the sims
[2014/10/03 15:28:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the current AG that Rosie runs is not a representation of the entire community in the way that the former guilds were
[2014/10/03 15:28:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and therefore when the law mentioned the NEw guild
[2014/10/03 15:29:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it kenw that 1. n
[2014/10/03 15:29:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 1. weekly public meetings happened, sort of like this BUT, everyone present had a vote on every matter
[2014/10/03 15:29:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: all votes were equal and every single citizen was welcome
[2014/10/03 15:29:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so when things went to the New Guild
[2014/10/03 15:29:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ALL citizens were given the opportunity to build
[2014/10/03 15:29:51] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:29:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: rosies guild has nothing like this happening ...
[2014/10/03 15:30:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so ... i propose that you set up something like the New Guild
[2014/10/03 15:30:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that gives what pat talked about ...
[2014/10/03 15:30:27] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:30:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: consensus
[2014/10/03 15:30:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: where all citizens can build as they are able
[2014/10/03 15:30:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: alll citizens can participate in the building of Sims that are purchased with CDS money
[2014/10/03 15:30:56] Rosie Gray: out of order Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:31:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: im speaking plese hush rosie
[2014/10/03 15:31:12] Michel Manen: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:31:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so the thing that i think is important
[2014/10/03 15:31:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: is that when you determine who does the building
[2014/10/03 15:31:22] Rosie Gray: you have made your point, so please finish
[2014/10/03 15:31:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that it includes everyone... rosie you are out of order and rude
[2014/10/03 15:31:35] Pat (patroklus.murakami): tut tut. behave yourself cleo
[2014/10/03 15:31:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: bullying is unbecoming of you two ..
[2014/10/03 15:31:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok let me finish...
[2014/10/03 15:32:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: The thing about the AG i said.. so that is the distinction
[2014/10/03 15:32:03] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): "Bullying"?
[2014/10/03 15:32:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: As far as having a contest
[2014/10/03 15:32:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think that would be a good idea,
[2014/10/03 15:32:41] Michel Manen: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:33:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but i think it would be necessary to make sure it is not determined just by the three votes in teh R A that control.. but by the whole community if it is a sim bought by CDS with CDS money
[2014/10/03 15:33:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2014/10/03 15:33:12] Arria (arria.perreault): (I have raised my hand)
[2014/10/03 15:33:12] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 15:33:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Haha
[2014/10/03 15:33:21] Rosie Gray: then Pat, then Arria
[2014/10/03 15:33:35] Butterfli Summers: First, I want to say if this overlaps anyone from the committee I have been typing out on a notecard until the floor was open and I apologize for that but its only because I agree with you
[2014/10/03 15:33:43] Butterfli Summers: I recommend that you should let citizens contribute with the guidance of an appointed representative or the guild to help spread the workload more evenly and involve the community this will help bring the citizens together and take ownership of something that belongs to them. I also believe there should be designs drafted and models created from the guild and private citizens wishing participate and brought before the community for a vote , giving 1 to 2 weeks to create the draft after the sim layout has been approved and completed, with mapping, a build model, and budget for review from everything to landscaping and structures. The awarded designer or guild's proposal would work with the representative of the community group and together they deligate citizen involvement. I also wanted to recommend it should be adopted that seasonal changes be built in as add ons like trees and buildings making it easier and basically not a burden on the community and government when it comes time to swap out trees etc...
[2014/10/03 15:33:43] Butterfli Summers: flip the switch type design be recommended to include in any proposed designs subject to be voted on by the community.
[2014/10/03 15:34:22] /me nods
[2014/10/03 15:34:26] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:34:41] Michel Manen: raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:35:35] Rosie Gray: are you done, Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 15:35:39] Butterfli Summers: oh sorry
[2014/10/03 15:35:41] Butterfli Summers: yes done
[2014/10/03 15:35:43] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2014/10/03 15:35:55] Rosie Gray: okay, Pat, Arria, Michel, Gaius
[2014/10/03 15:35:58] Rosie Gray: Pat is next
[2014/10/03 15:35:59] Pat (patroklus.murakami): thx
[2014/10/03 15:36:29] Pat (patroklus.murakami): point of correction: cleo has grossly misrepresented both the former New Guild and the current Artisan's Guild
[2014/10/03 15:36:33] Pat (patroklus.murakami): it's kind of funny
[2014/10/03 15:36:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no i didnt at all
[2014/10/03 15:36:41] Pat (patroklus.murakami): because she used to slag off moon
[2014/10/03 15:36:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Pat has the floor.
[2014/10/03 15:36:45] Pat (patroklus.murakami): shush!
[2014/10/03 15:37:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are going to have to be a very specific in saying what i said that is wrong
[2014/10/03 15:37:04] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:37:08] Michel Manen: sorry i need to go. my only comment at this time is that considering the outcome of the referendums indicating citizen desire for sims, and the binding nature of that referendum, we should put implementation of new sim construction before any act revision. as long as there is an alternative option to do so in accordance with the law. good bye bye for now all.
[2014/10/03 15:37:10] Rosie Gray: be quiet
[2014/10/03 15:37:13] Michel Manen: left chat range.
[2014/10/03 15:37:21] Pat (patroklus.murakami): she used to make the same criticisms of moon that she now does about rosie and the guild!
[2014/10/03 15:37:28] Michel Manen: left the region.
[2014/10/03 15:37:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok pat is lyin gnow
[2014/10/03 15:37:32] Pat (patroklus.murakami): the New Guild was not the body cleo claims it was
[2014/10/03 15:37:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a total liar...
[2014/10/03 15:37:40] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Point of order.
[2014/10/03 15:37:41] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2014/10/03 15:37:42] Bromo Ivory: Pat ... it was
[2014/10/03 15:37:44] Pat (patroklus.murakami): mme chair
[2014/10/03 15:37:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok the new guild doesnt meet weekly
[2014/10/03 15:37:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it doesnt have citizens vote
[2014/10/03 15:37:52] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): This is unacceptable, Rosie.
[2014/10/03 15:37:54] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: anyone cant join and vote
[2014/10/03 15:38:04] Rosie Gray: Cleo, you will need to be quiet or leave
[2014/10/03 15:38:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): pls stop disrupting the meeting cleo
[2014/10/03 15:38:11] Rosie Gray: I won't ask again
[2014/10/03 15:38:27] Pat (patroklus.murakami): may i continue?
[2014/10/03 15:38:33] Rosie Gray: yes please Pat
[2014/10/03 15:38:34] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:38:37] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:39:02] Pat (patroklus.murakami): The New Guild had a board strucutre which means that only some people had votes on critical issues. go look up their charter
[2014/10/03 15:39:20] Pat (patroklus.murakami): yes, there were lots of open meetings and moon ran it in a very collaborative way
[2014/10/03 15:39:34] Pat (patroklus.murakami): but it was not what cleo claims and she was a stern critic
[2014/10/03 15:39:42] /me nods
[2014/10/03 15:39:48] Pat (patroklus.murakami): the current ARtisans' guild *is* open to all!
[2014/10/03 15:40:00] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and, as an NGO, it can run it's own affairs
[2014/10/03 15:40:10] Pat (patroklus.murakami): these constant attacks are unhelpful
[2014/10/03 15:40:18] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if you don't like it, make up your own guild!
[2014/10/03 15:40:19] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 15:40:27] Rosie Gray: Arria?
[2014/10/03 15:40:35] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:40:55] Arria (arria.perreault): I don't think that the role of any guild is important in this process.
[2014/10/03 15:41:18] Arria (arria.perreault): we have laws and as long as these laws are there, we have to use them
[2014/10/03 15:41:47] /me agrees with Arria
[2014/10/03 15:41:49] Arria (arria.perreault): the current law is very clear : it the to the RA to decide on the project with all the details
[2014/10/03 15:42:09] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:42:56] Arria (arria.perreault): the RA will commission a group or a builder. but it is clear that this group or this builder has to follow the plans of the RA and not their own fantasy.
[2014/10/03 15:43:03] Arria (arria.perreault): On the basis of the report from the Executive, the RA would decide whether to continue with the project or not. Assuming that the RA decides there is sufficient interest to build the new sim(s), the RA would agree any final adjustments to the plan, authorise the Estate Owner to purchase the new sim(s) and commission the New Guild to carry out the work.
[2014/10/03 15:43:11] Arria (arria.perreault): (citation)
[2014/10/03 15:43:14] Arria (arria.perreault): I am done
[2014/10/03 15:43:43] Rosie Gray: thank you Arria
[2014/10/03 15:43:54] Rosie Gray: Michel was next, but he already said what he wanted
[2014/10/03 15:43:56] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/10/03 15:44:03] Rosie Gray: then Bromo, then Butterfli
[2014/10/03 15:44:35] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I believe that Arria's points make sense, but there is not yet a plan we have agreed on
[2014/10/03 15:45:00] /me raises hand. point of information on michel's contribution
[2014/10/03 15:45:32] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Considering how late we ae meeting in the term, I believe it expedient that we look at Timo's plans for NFS W and E and recommend to the RA to accept that plan.
[2014/10/03 15:45:36] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done
[2014/10/03 15:45:42] /me will be right back.
[2014/10/03 15:46:01] Rosie Gray: hmmmm
[2014/10/03 15:46:05] Rosie Gray: Bromo?
[2014/10/03 15:46:18] /me smiles "Thanks and sorry I was late"
[2014/10/03 15:47:09] Bromo Ivory: whispers: I agree very much with Arria's general approach, so wanted to mention that. But I was looking over plans, and I saw a plan done by ROsie that was posted on the forums I think should be consideration.
[2014/10/03 15:47:19] /me somebody told evolution? :)
[2014/10/03 15:48:26] Bromo Ivory: I beleive that points of history are not so important as the path forward, and I'd advise the RA, if it was up to just me, that they ought to organize a community wide event in the construciton and buolding of this sim(s). I think the RA could be the focus - with special officers or however they see fit.
[2014/10/03 15:48:28] Bromo Ivory: done
[2014/10/03 15:48:46] Rosie Gray: thank you Bromo
[2014/10/03 15:48:52] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 15:49:11] Shep (shep.titian): Raises hand
[2014/10/03 15:49:15] Butterfli Summers: I agree we should use the laws established as Arria suggested but a part of this committee is also to recommend to the RA if the current laws written in the past need adjusting for the future. So talking this out is productive in that sense.
[2014/10/03 15:50:28] Butterfli Summers: oh done
[2014/10/03 15:50:29] Butterfli Summers: sorry
[2014/10/03 15:50:48] Rosie Gray: thank you Butterfli
[2014/10/03 15:51:20] Rosie Gray: due to the late hour, I would like to table further discussion on this - although I think we've made some good progress
[2014/10/03 15:51:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): can i just add my point of info for the record?
[2014/10/03 15:51:44] Shep (shep.titian): Takes issue with Bromo .. as surely the same should have been applied to his Sim ... done
[2014/10/03 15:51:50] Rosie Gray: and pick up again for another meeting of this commission and finish up.
[2014/10/03 15:51:58] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry had my hand up
[2014/10/03 15:52:21] Rosie Gray: sorry Shep, didn't see it
[2014/10/03 15:52:28] Pat (patroklus.murakami): michel said that the referendum result was 'binding' on the RA. this is incorrect, our referenda are advisory only :)
[2014/10/03 15:52:36] Meta (metafictioner): awesome :)
[2014/10/03 15:52:46] Rosie Gray: yes, that's correct, what Pat said
[2014/10/03 15:52:54] Rosie Gray: all commissions are advisory
[2014/10/03 15:53:07] /me says that it puts forward a powerful mandate nonetheless
[2014/10/03 15:53:33] Rosie Gray: so, I move we adjourn this meeting, next meeting to be scheduled and take up tabled items
[2014/10/03 15:53:37] Rosie Gray: do I have a second?
[2014/10/03 15:53:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): second
[2014/10/03 15:53:45] Rosie Gray: vote
[2014/10/03 15:53:46] Rosie Gray: aye
[2014/10/03 15:53:49] Pat (patroklus.murakami): aye
[2014/10/03 15:53:55] Bromo Ivory: aye
[2014/10/03 15:53:57] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2014/10/03 15:54:06] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Abstain
[2014/10/03 15:54:12] Rosie Gray: motion carries
"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas

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