Commission Meeting Transcript October 3, 2014
[color=]2014/10/03 14:11:25] Rosie Gray: This meeting is called to order[/color]
[2014/10/03 14:11:41] Rosie Gray: the commission members are myself, Bromo, Leslie, Pat, and Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:11:54] Michel Manen: hello stephen
[2014/10/03 14:11:59] Michel Manen: hello meta
[2014/10/03 14:12:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hello stephen xootfly
[2014/10/03 14:12:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: arria
[2014/10/03 14:12:08] Butterfli Summers: Hi Stephen
[2014/10/03 14:12:12] Rosie Gray: we will discuss the items on the Agenda first, then the advisors who are Arria, Gwyn, and Widget
[2014/10/03 14:12:20] Stephen Xootfly: Greetings all.
[2014/10/03 14:12:33] Rosie Gray: oh good, you are back Arria ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:12:34] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stephen
[2014/10/03 14:12:47] Stephen Xootfly: Nice seeing you again today, MIchel and Cleo.
[2014/10/03 14:12:50] Butterfli Summers: wb Arria
[2014/10/03 14:12:59] Rosie Gray: after commission members and advisors have finished speaking, we will take comments from everyone else
[2014/10/03 14:13:01] Arria (arria.perreault): ty ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:13:15] Rosie Gray: please raise your hands and we'll take speakers in order
[2014/10/03 14:13:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty , and its a pleasure to see you Stephen
[2014/10/03 14:13:25] Butterfli Summers: haha, i think she is speaking to me on that one lol
[2014/10/03 14:13:26] Rosie Gray: only the Commission members may vote
[2014/10/03 14:13:40] Rosie Gray: right.... item A
[2014/10/03 14:13:41] Butterfli Summers: ((i'm learning))
[2014/10/03 14:14:05] Rosie Gray: Consider finances, balance of public and private prims and any specific public spaces appropriate to the theme.
[2014/10/03 14:14:35] Rosie Gray: Leslie, Pat... ?
[2014/10/03 14:14:44] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:14:51] Rosie Gray: yes please Les
[2014/10/03 14:15:01] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:15:05] Leslie Allandale: Am I to understand that this applies to Timo's proposal?
[2014/10/03 14:15:14] Meta (metafictioner):
[2014/10/03 14:15:35] Rosie Gray: not specifically, Les
[2014/10/03 14:15:58] Leslie Allandale: done for a moment, ty
[2014/10/03 14:16:05] Rosie Gray: but generally in regards to the new sim that we will be makig recommendations on
[2014/10/03 14:16:44] Leslie Allandale: raises hand again
[2014/10/03 14:16:46] Rosie Gray: okay, well I would like to propose that we recommend following Trebor's proposal
[2014/10/03 14:16:47] Leslie Allandale: after pat?
[2014/10/03 14:16:57] Rosie Gray: yes sorry... Pat?
[2014/10/03 14:17:01] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:17:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): thx
[2014/10/03 14:17:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the balance of public and private should follow the theme broadly
[2014/10/03 14:17:32] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:17:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, if we are talking about NFS East it will primarily be a rural sim
[2014/10/03 14:18:03] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so not much need for public infrastructure
[2014/10/03 14:18:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we are talking about NFS West it's a different story
[2014/10/03 14:18:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): NFS has a very high ratio of public buildings and space
[2014/10/03 14:18:42] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so I would expect the complementary sim to mirror that
[2014/10/03 14:19:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): as it will largely have a similar kind of dense urban build and the kind of infrastructure that works well with public amenites
[2014/10/03 14:19:19] Pat (patroklus.murakami): like the ones we enjoy here
[2014/10/03 14:19:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): one point on finance then i'll shut up!
[2014/10/03 14:19:31] Michel Manen:
[2014/10/03 14:19:48] Meta (metafictioner): '-'
[2014/10/03 14:19:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the sims should be set up to pay their way and trebor's research gives us a good model to follow
[2014/10/03 14:19:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:19:59] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:20:06] /me nods
[2014/10/03 14:20:07] Rosie Gray: Les?
[2014/10/03 14:20:11] Leslie Allandale: I agree
[2014/10/03 14:20:18] /me raises hand again
[2014/10/03 14:20:19] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:20:38] /me wonder at all
[2014/10/03 14:20:40] Rosie Gray: please everyone else hold on until we are finished and I will call for you to speak then
[2014/10/03 14:20:41] Leslie Allandale: whether or not it is dense, the private sector could pay for the public.
[2014/10/03 14:21:26] Leslie Allandale: I believe Trebor's analysis calls for that, so I would second Rosie's motion.
[2014/10/03 14:21:35] Meta (metafictioner): wb Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:21:49] Rosie Gray: here is Gaius who is also on this commission
[2014/10/03 14:22:11] Butterfli Summers: Hi Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:22:21] Rosie Gray: actually I didn't make a motion yet Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:22:26] Stephen Xootfly: Greetings, Gaius.
[2014/10/03 14:22:27] Rosie Gray: just wanted to put it forward
[2014/10/03 14:22:30] Leslie Allandale: Then I would so move
[2014/10/03 14:22:44] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Hello ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:22:47] Leslie Allandale: so we can discuss
[2014/10/03 14:22:50] Leslie Allandale: done
[2014/10/03 14:22:50] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Apologies for being late.
[2014/10/03 14:22:55] Arria (arria.perreault): Hi Gaius ㋡
[2014/10/03 14:23:02] Meta (metafictioner): yw
[2014/10/03 14:23:19] Shep (shep.titian): Hi G
[2014/10/03 14:23:31] guy Daldry: oops
[2014/10/03 14:23:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: link to trebors proposal please ?
[2014/10/03 14:23:49] Rosie Gray: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 259#p30823
[2014/10/03 14:23:55] Rosie Gray: there is the link
[2014/10/03 14:24:03] Rosie Gray: please have a seat, Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:24:32] Rosie Gray: all those that recently arrived, please note that this meeting is being recorded, so if you speak you are consenting to that
[2014/10/03 14:24:44] Arria (arria.perreault): I consent
[2014/10/03 14:24:55] Rosie Gray: Gaius, the commission members are discussing item A of the Agenda
[2014/10/03 14:25:22] Widget Whiteberry: A. Consider finances, balance of public and private prims and any specific public spaces appropriate to the theme.
[2014/10/03 14:25:30] Rosie Gray: [14:16:46] Rosie Gray: okay, well I would like to propose that we recommend following Trebor's proposal
[14:16:47] Leslie Allandale: after pat?
[14:16:57] Rosie Gray: yes sorry... Pat?
[14:17:01] Butterfli Summers raises hand
[14:17:01] Pat (patroklus.murakami): thx
[14:17:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the balance of public and private should follow the theme broadly
[14:17:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[14:17:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, if we are talking about NFS East it will primarily be a rural sim
[14:18:03] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so not much need for public infrastructure
[14:18:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we are talking about NFS West it's a different story
[14:18:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): NFS has a very high ratio of public buildings and space
[14:18:42] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so I would expect the complementary sim to mirror that
[14:19:11] Pat (patroklus.murakami): as it will largely have a
[2014/10/03 14:25:30] Rosie Gray: similar kind of dense urban build and the kind of infrastructure that works well with public amenites
[14:19:19] Pat (patroklus.murakami): like the ones we enjoy here
[14:19:26] Pat (patroklus.murakami): one point on finance then i'll shut up!
[14:19:31] Michel Manen:
[14:19:48] Meta (metafictioner): '-'
[14:19:53] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think that the sims should be set up to pay their way and trebor's research gives us a good model to follow
[14:19:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:25:31] /me nods
[2014/10/03 14:26:14] Rosie Gray: do you have any thoughts about this, Arria and Widget?
[2014/10/03 14:26:48] Widget Whiteberry: I support Les's motion and Pat's analysis
[2014/10/03 14:27:09] Widget Whiteberry: nothing to add, though. Done
[2014/10/03 14:27:10] Arria (arria.perreault): As I said, my favour goes to the continuation of the Monastery sim, but not only because of the Monastery sim
[2014/10/03 14:27:46] Arria (arria.perreault): I believe we can do amazing things especially in the wintertime with a ski lodge and a ski slope
[2014/10/03 14:27:57] Rosie Gray: Arria, we aren't talking about that right now though
[2014/10/03 14:28:09] Michel Manen:
[2014/10/03 14:28:12] Arria (arria.perreault): ok. sorry
[2014/10/03 14:28:18] Rosie Gray: the question is regarding Finances.. balance of public and private prims and specific public spaces
[2014/10/03 14:28:24] /me raises hand again
[2014/10/03 14:28:52] Widget Whiteberry: isn't a sski slope a specific public place?
[2014/10/03 14:28:59] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 14:29:06] Arria (arria.perreault): I don't think we need a lot of public space. one or two places are enough. And yes, the financial balance is important.
[2014/10/03 14:29:14] Rosie Gray: yes I guess it is
[2014/10/03 14:29:21] Michel Manen: i take it that most public building are already located in NFS ... and the new part of the city will be mostly residential... so the issue is really moot in this case.
[2014/10/03 14:29:27] Arria (arria.perreault): each sim must be somehow sustainable
[2014/10/03 14:29:35] Rosie Gray: Michel, please don't speak yet
[2014/10/03 14:29:59] Arria (arria.perreault): I am done
[2014/10/03 14:30:05] Rosie Gray: okay
[2014/10/03 14:30:39] Rosie Gray: so, now if the commission members have nothing else to add at this time, we'll take hands from observers
[2014/10/03 14:30:49] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:30:50] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:30:56] Rosie Gray: Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:31:00] Rosie Gray: then Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:31:34] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I believe in Trebor's analysis and expertise, and I would like to note that Timo has offered a plan for both NFS E and W.
[2014/10/03 14:31:44] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:32:37] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): My only remark is that I hope that my proposal for an art deco airport in 1920s and 1930s themed Germany/Swiss is at least considered. Done.
[2014/10/03 14:33:17] Rosie Gray: thanks
[2014/10/03 14:33:19] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 14:33:24] Butterfli Summers: I like this proposal but I think the prims are way off...this does not allocate enough prims for public spaces and/or events in my opinion. I think this should be researched a little further before agreeing to this proposal or you will run into problems you already have now having to free up prims for events. I understand one will be primarily residential but you don't want to cap your prims.
[2014/10/03 14:33:44] Butterfli Summers: done. unless someone has a comment to rebut
[2014/10/03 14:33:57] Rosie Gray: it's a good point, Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:34:03] Rosie Gray: Cleo?
[2014/10/03 14:34:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Well, i just wanted to say that the ratio of public to private is determined by the plan that Trebor did is it not ?
[2014/10/03 14:34:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: in that he says what the break even has to be at what point of capacity
[2014/10/03 14:35:17] Butterfli Summers: Single-Prim Regions Private SQM 57,326 Public SQM 8,210. Private Prims 13,100 Public Prims 1,900
Double-Prim Regions Private SQM 28,663 Public SQM 36,873 Private Prims 13,100 Public Prims 1,900
Homestead Region – Monthly tier to Linden Labs US$125. Tier collected at 100% occupancy US$166.
Six Prim Multiplier – Private SQM 8,071 Public SQM 57,465 Private Prims 2,767 Public Prims 983
[2014/10/03 14:35:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so in order to meet that criteria a certain number of sq m must be private to cover the tier plus the overage built in ? is that correct, and if so ..
[2014/10/03 14:35:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty
[2014/10/03 14:35:34] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:35:39] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): 75% is his break-even, as note.
[2014/10/03 14:35:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that will determine how much land is ppublic vs private then
[2014/10/03 14:35:43] Rosie Gray: please wait Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:35:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2014/10/03 14:35:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:36:00] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:36:04] Rosie Gray: okay thanks Cleo
[2014/10/03 14:36:06] Rosie Gray: Butterfli?
[2014/10/03 14:36:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sorry rosie it was a question
[2014/10/03 14:36:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can you answer it
[2014/10/03 14:36:31] Butterfli Summers: when stating public vs private, is there any clarification if he means commercial vs residential?
[2014/10/03 14:36:31] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i can
[2014/10/03 14:36:34] Butterfli Summers: done
[2014/10/03 14:36:49] Rosie Gray: please do, Pat
[2014/10/03 14:36:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he meant paid by tier collection privat land
[2014/10/03 14:36:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: wait
[2014/10/03 14:36:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and public land is not collecting tier
[2014/10/03 14:37:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so we have to support the public land with tier from the private land
[2014/10/03 14:37:18] Rosie Gray: that's correct
[2014/10/03 14:37:18] Butterfli Summers: ok thank you
[2014/10/03 14:37:20] Meta (metafictioner): that's a point solving when occupation rights are agree
[2014/10/03 14:37:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: at 75 %
[2014/10/03 14:37:28] Pat (patroklus.murakami): if we take trebor's suggestions as a straitjacket then, it's true, we do end up with a specific ratio of public v private
[2014/10/03 14:37:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so if 25 percent is vacant
[2014/10/03 14:37:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we still cover teir
[2014/10/03 14:37:36] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think we should be a bit more subtle
[2014/10/03 14:37:38] Rosie Gray: Meta, everyone... please do not speak until you are recognized by the chair
[2014/10/03 14:37:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i was speaking still i though t.. but yes pat thats correct.
[2014/10/03 14:38:01] Meta (metafictioner): sry
[2014/10/03 14:38:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: trebors plan is very limiting, though it is sound financially
[2014/10/03 14:38:06] Pat (patroklus.murakami): let's set the breakeven point at a reasonable point (lihe the one trebor proposed)
[2014/10/03 14:38:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): sorry cleo, i thought you had finished
[2014/10/03 14:38:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: his is at 75%..
[2014/10/03 14:38:20] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:38:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you were answering me
[2014/10/03 14:38:25] Pat (patroklus.murakami): you wanted an anser to your question?
[2014/10/03 14:38:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you just repeated me and made a point
[2014/10/03 14:38:39] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Point of order, Mme Chair.
[2014/10/03 14:38:40] Pat (patroklus.murakami): may i continue?
[2014/10/03 14:38:50] Rosie Gray: welcome back Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:38:56] Rosie Gray: are you done, Cleo?
[2014/10/03 14:38:59] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): CLEOPATRA said she was "done".
[2014/10/03 14:39:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: kind of
[2014/10/03 14:39:10] Rosie Gray: okay, then Pat, please cntinue
[2014/10/03 14:39:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ..... i wanted to know .. because you said that
[2014/10/03 14:39:14] Rosie Gray: then Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:39:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: trebors plan is a done deal or not ?
[2014/10/03 14:39:30] Pat (patroklus.murakami): ok. hush cleo, i have the floor!
[2014/10/03 14:39:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): so, we should set a reaonable breakeven point and trebor's work helps us
[2014/10/03 14:40:15] Pat (patroklus.murakami): but that should not limit us in explorign whether more or less publlic space is appropriate for a particular sim
[2014/10/03 14:40:23] Pat (patroklus.murakami): and making recommendations to the RA
[2014/10/03 14:40:36] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:40:45] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:40:52] Pat (patroklus.murakami): it is still possible to work all of that out and get a sim design we want and which is financially sustainable
[2014/10/03 14:40:54] Pat (patroklus.murakami): done
[2014/10/03 14:41:03] Rosie Gray: Gaius?
[2014/10/03 14:41:31] Leslie Allandale: Call the question
[2014/10/03 14:42:12] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I believe that a 75% break even is a good and reasonable break-even, especially considering the recent trend that the CDS has had 80%+ occupancy.
[2014/10/03 14:43:19] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I also think that the more public space to accommodate a library and college and other educational facilitaties would be a good plan for NFS E, but not for NFS W.
[2014/10/03 14:43:20] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2014/10/03 14:43:37] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius
[2014/10/03 14:43:38] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2014/10/03 14:43:59] Leslie Allandale: Raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:44:03] Rosie Gray: hmmm... maybe she's afk
[2014/10/03 14:44:07] Rosie Gray: Butterfli please
[2014/10/03 14:44:14] Rosie Gray: then Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:44:28] Butterfli Summers: Before this gets recommended or decided, it seems logical the we should determine what key components or areas are needed that would benefit the community, i understand the financial aspect but i say give a soft vote that is open to review once you have a full layout planned and ready to be executed, then recrunch the numbers and make changes
[2014/10/03 14:44:30] Butterfli Summers: done
[2014/10/03 14:44:49] Rosie Gray: thank you Butterfli
[2014/10/03 14:44:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: rasies hand
[2014/10/03 14:44:50] Rosie Gray: Leslie
[2014/10/03 14:44:52] Leslie Allandale: move to adopt Trepbor's analysis as the primary guide in determining the finances of a new sim.
[2014/10/03 14:45:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i have a comment about it ?
[2014/10/03 14:45:12] Rosie Gray: one moment please Cleo
[2014/10/03 14:45:13] Leslie Allandale: point of order
[2014/10/03 14:45:17] Rosie Gray: do we have a second?
[2014/10/03 14:45:27] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Second
[2014/10/03 14:45:31] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2014/10/03 14:45:43] Rosie Gray: discussion (commission members and advisors)
[2014/10/03 14:45:49] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:46:03] Pat (patroklus.murakami): i think i've contributed on this. nothing further to say right now
[2014/10/03 14:46:36] Leslie Allandale: raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:46:45] /me raises hand
[2014/10/03 14:46:48] Meta (metafictioner):
[2014/10/03 14:46:50] /me raises hand.
[2014/10/03 14:46:59] Rosie Gray: I'd like an amendment, to add that some flexibility be allowed in consideration of public space useage
[2014/10/03 14:47:07] Leslie Allandale: second
[2014/10/03 14:47:08] Rosie Gray: Leslie?
[2014/10/03 14:47:21] Leslie Allandale: I believe Butterfli said it well
[2014/10/03 14:47:38] Rosie Gray: yes I agree... so you are open to a friendly amendment on your motion?
[2014/10/03 14:47:42] Leslie Allandale: We cannot give exact figures until we have more information
[2014/10/03 14:47:47] Leslie Allandale: yes
[2014/10/03 14:47:50] Rosie Gray: great
[2014/10/03 14:47:53] Leslie Allandale: I seconded the amendment
[2014/10/03 14:47:59] Rosie Gray: thank you