Chancellor Powers Commission Meeting to be Held

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Chancellor Powers Commission Meeting to be Held

Post by Tor Karlsvalt »

The Chancellor's Powers Commission will meet Saturday, 6 September 2014 at 6:00 AM.

It will be held at the cloister under the Preatrium. The SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/C ... /16/138/24
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Re: Chancellor Powers Commission Meeting to be Held

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Members of this Commission are Tor, Delia Lake, Covey Homewood, Mizou Vavoom and me, Widget
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Re: Chancellor Powers Commission Meeting to be Held

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Transcript of the first meeting of the Chancellor Powers Commission - Saturday, Sept 6, 6am slt (lightly edited for spelling) Edited to add meeting attended by the Commission members + Leslie, Cleo, Dawg, Catz, Ariel, josjoha, Shep. My apologies if I've left anyone off this list.

[06:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Welcome to the first meeting of the Chancellor's Powers Commission.
[06:11] Covey Homewood: Thank you
[06:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: leslie i agree the floor is the way to go
[06:11] Dawg: nods*
[06:11] Tor Karlsvalt: There is an agenda in the box in front of me.
[06:12] Leslie Allandale: Chair wouldn't let me sit in it, and I didn't want to stand, Cleo
[06:12] Tor Karlsvalt: This Commisson was established by the RA to offer recommendation on improving the laws and constitution as relating to the powers of the Chancellor.
[06:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Naturally this commission reports to the RA.
[06:13] Dawg: ((I cant get agenda...))
[06:13] Tor Karlsvalt: oh
[06:13] Tor Karlsvalt: thank
[06:13] Widget Whiteberry: I got it
[06:13] Dawg: i did now.ty
[06:13] Covey Homewood: I got it as well.
[06:14] Mizou Vavoom: same here
[06:14] Dawg: pfft..my computer needs coffee to I think
[06:14] Dawg: But I do have it now
[06:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty Tor
[06:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Just in case I just passed it to all of you.
[06:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Included with the agenda is the article of the constitution relating to the Chancellor and a link to it.
[06:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[06:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Just to make clear, especially for our new people, this meeting will be transcripted and a copy will be posted to the forum.
[06:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo?
[06:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: It seems essential we should first review ALL laws that pertain to the chancellor and chancellor powers. .
[06:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: . If we are going to review the powers. There are many laws and the constitution as Tor points out, that address things that pertain to the chancellor. So a review of ALL laws that includes the ones that are NOT on the portal now in the list, but passed by teh RA is kinda necessary before this happens, or we wont be able to do this due diligence.
[06:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not just the constitution
[06:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[06:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Ty, I agree
[06:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I do not intend this agenda to be finite. Indeed one item on the agenda is to ask for more idea.
[06:17] Covey Homewood: agrees
[06:17] Mizou Vavoom: agrees
[06:17] Dawg: morning Shep
[06:17] Tor Karlsvalt: First can I ask the members to introduce themselves. Some of us are rather new to government.
[06:18] Tor Karlsvalt: Mizou?
[06:19] Mizou Vavoom: Ok, well i have been involved with the CDS since the start of colonia Nova as a builder and have also been ivolved with the CDS portal since 2008 till now
[06:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: welcome back Mizou !
[06:19] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Mizou.
[06:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia?
[06:19] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry if I cut you off mizou.
[06:20] Mizou Vavoom: I am interested in laws regarding the advertising of CDS and creating an editiorial team to work together with cahncellor & Co
[06:20] Mizou Vavoom: np
[06:20] Shep: Oooh I bet it has privacy setting
[06:20] Shep: FGS!
[06:21] Delia Lake: I have been a CDS citizen for 8 yrs, living in NFS. for 4 of those years I was on the SC. I have done landscaping projects on a number of sims here. I remain interested and invested in the good workings of the CDS government although I am no longer part of it
[06:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay delia
[06:22] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you
[06:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Covey?
[06:23] Covey Homewood: Good morning. I am still arether new member of CDS. I had been a long time member of Cedar Island and for many years was Clerk for Cedar Island. My hope is that I can bring a fresh look to issues concerning CDS and, perhaps, a different (but helpful) perspective.
[06:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you
[06:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Widget?
[06:24] Dawg: nods
[06:24] Widget Whiteberry: Good morning. I've been in CDS for about 2 years, when I brought Virtually Speaking to CDS. I've been actively following the gov't and forums and contributing where I can since May.
[06:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay covey :)
[06:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you
[06:24] Covey Homewood: :)
[06:25] floor shadow: Restricted to owner only!
[06:25] Dawg: wb shep
[06:25] Catz Jewell Lane: Hi Shep
[06:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: dk
[06:26] Shep: Apologies for lateness
[06:26] Tor Karlsvalt: And as most of you know, I have been a citizen for over four years and have served as Chancellor and am currently on the RA. I too would like to make the role of the Chancellor clearer while preserving the effectiveness of the office.
[06:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you all for participating in this commission.
[06:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I was wondering if we could have a secretary.
[06:27] Dawg: raises hand
[06:27] Widget Whiteberry offers
[06:27] Dawg: Im happy to keep minures
[06:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Anyone interested in having the task of posting transcripts and minutes?
[06:28] Dawg: widget?
[06:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you dawg, I was hoping to have one of the commission members take this task.
[06:28] Delia Lake: my internet connection is too squirrely to volunteer for keeping minutes :(
[06:28] Widget Whiteberry: I can do it
[06:28] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, Unless there is an objection, Widget will be our secretary.
[06:28] Mizou Vavoom: agree
[06:29] Covey Homewood: no objection
[06:29] Delia Lake: ty Widget
[06:29] Covey Homewood: Thank you Widget
[06:29] Tor Karlsvalt: good, thank you widget.
[06:29] Widget Whiteberry: Welcome
[06:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I know we have had some issues with venue. I think this space has done even better than I hopped.
[06:30] Tor Karlsvalt: any discussion?
[06:30] Covey Homewood: This seems fine for me.
[06:30] Tor Karlsvalt: good
[06:31] Mizou Vavoom: comfortable hairs and nice place
[06:31] Mizou Vavoom: chairs
[06:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it looks good tor
[06:31] Tor Karlsvalt: unless there is any objection, we will hold future meetings here as well. Rather underused space, I think. Glad we like the chairs. Alas I was not so kind to the visitors. I will see if I can do better.
[06:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Good, on to the business.
[06:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we were joking its fine tor
[06:32] Dawg: nods
[06:32] Tor Karlsvalt: First Item is a job description.
[06:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[06:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I think widget has been working on this.
[06:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo?
[06:33] Delia Lake: before we get to the job description there are a couple of things I'd like to say and post
[06:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: im confused at how you can make a job description now and then .. i mean .. what are the powers now
[06:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and what will tye be.. i think you do the job description las t thing
[06:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not first
[06:33] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, Cleo, good point.
[06:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia?
[06:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I mean if you dont even know what legally the chancellor can or should do , how can you construtct the job description..
[06:34] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry cleo continue
[06:34] Tor Karlsvalt: That is a good point.
[06:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[06:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty
[06:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia?
[06:34] Delia Lake: I think we need to keep in mind the Exec in the constitution as a touchstone. just the purpose of the exec section. here it is
[06:34] Delia Lake: Article II – The Executive

Section 1 – The Chancellor

The Chancellor will serve as the executive of CDS, working to coordinate and plan community projects.

[06:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Section 2 delia ?
[06:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: That is only half of it ..
[06:35] Delia Lake: the powers and prioritization should support that or we have to recommend changes to that basic statement
[06:36] Delia Lake: the functions have to come before the powers
[06:36] Delia Lake: the powers need to support the powers imo not the functions be derive from the powers
[06:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Good point also, so the powers should devolve from the mission of the exec.
[06:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: But there is more than that to the functions also .. in the constution
[06:37] Dawg: gm Chancellor
[06:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Welcome Chancellor.
[06:37] Delia Lake: so here there are 2 basic functions: to coordinate and to plan
[06:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ( why do i have to be logged in to the forums to see the constitution?)
[06:38] Delia Lake: beyond that imo we need to look at what functions are everyday management functions and what are extraordinary/occasional functions
[06:39] Delia Lake: the everyday ones imo take priority for an executive
[06:39] Tor Karlsvalt nods
[06:39] Delia Lake: done with context for now
[06:40] Tor Karlsvalt: ok thank you Delia.
[06:40] Delia Lake may be crashing. if so I'll come right back
[06:40] Tor Karlsvalt: And I think Cleo refers to so much many of the chancellors powers and duties are in the law, not the constitution.
[06:40] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[06:40] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia.
[06:41] Covey Homewood: Thank you Delia. You condensed a lot of information to a manageable bit.
[06:41] Mizou Vavoom: Yes, thx ~Delia, I agree and it gives us a place to start off
[06:41] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes but .. i refer to this Tor : Section 2 – Powers of the Chancellor
The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power:
[06:42] Delia Lake: Cleo, section 2 is about powers. we have to address functions first order to assess whether the powers as written make sense
[06:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Delia i agree, but my point is to see what we are starting with fully first.. or are you starting from scratch .
[06:43] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, I think Widget has something to offer.
[06:43] Widget Whiteberry: I do
[06:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Widget, can you tell us what you have been working on?
[06:43] Widget Whiteberry: Looking at the available information, I created a list of areas of responsibility.
1. Personnel
2. Estate management
3. Events Production & Mgmt
4. Reporting
5. Budget
6. CDS Group management
7. Web-based social media sites

[06:43] Leslie Allandale: Raises hand
[06:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[06:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Are you done Widget?
[06:44] Widget Whiteberry: Yes
[06:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, thank you.
[06:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Leslie?
[06:44] Leslie Allandale: I would like to comment that, since Widget has raised the issue of responsibility
[06:45] Leslie Allandale: That function/power could be also seen as responsibility/authority
[06:45] Leslie Allandale: I seems to me that if someone has responsibility, she needs the authority to meet that responsibility
[06:46] Leslie Allandale: thus agree that responsibilities come first. done
[06:46] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Leslie
[06:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo?
[06:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I think Leslie brings up a good point, that if one is given the responsibility to do something they need the authrity and tools
[06:46] Delia Lake: If I may? the responsibilities in the constitution and the authorities give are in order to carry out specific functions
[06:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: snap
[06:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: .. but ..
[06:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok .. er yeild ot delia
[06:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Continue Cleo
[06:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i wanted to ask Widget
[06:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how she came up with the list, and is it unreasonable
[06:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: to think we should first do a complete search and ALL review all current laws before we move forward
[06:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[06:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Widget?
[06:49] Delia Lake raises her hand
[06:49] Widget Whiteberry: As I said, I read what I could find .... and created this as a work in progress
[06:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nods
[06:49] Widget Whiteberry: initially to help my own thinking
[06:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[06:49] Tor Karlsvalt: cleo?
[06:49] Delia Lake: ??
[06:49] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry Delia. I missed your and, you will be next.
[06:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this is a point of all the committee meetings, and how the last two RA's which I am now on and was, have been remiss.. in that
[06:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Widget clearly states " what i can find"
[06:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: which is not at all ALL the laws on the book
[06:50] Widget Whiteberry: Excuse me
[06:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so i wonder if we need to make sure we can go get the laws all colated before we go move on and change something else, with not knowing
[06:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: what the laws are.. we did an RFP to have the laws all done
[06:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we haven't gotten it done yet. Delia worked on this
[06:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia then Widget
[06:51] Tor Karlsvalt: after cleo finishes.
[06:51] Widget Whiteberry: hmm no, that's ok, I'll pass
[06:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: .... so first lets go on and get the list of all laws to do with the chancellor so Widgets list is comprehensive done
[06:51] floor shadow: Restricted to owner only!
[06:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[06:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I dont want us doing things, then find out three months later we forgot an outstanding law that contradicts it
[06:52] Delia Lake: We need to start with the constitution, not with the laws. the constitution is primary and the laws must conform with the constution
[06:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Section 2 – Powers of the Chancellor

The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power:
[06:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: subject to the laws !!
[06:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but we dont even knwo the laws !!
[06:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thats my point
[06:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So you plan to just change the constitution ?
[06:53] Covey Homewood: So, is it Functions (purpose) of the chancellor, then the laws, then the power?
[06:53] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me make a ruling.
[06:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok
[06:53] Delia Lake: yes we do need to look at all the current laws bt the he first point of reference is the constiution
[06:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I register Cleo's concerns but note first that the RA established this commission to move forward on recommending any necessary clarifications or changes to the powers of the Chancellor. I must assume that the concerns stated by Cleo were considered. Indeed, I remember them mentioned. Thus we will proceed. Second, although the laws of CDS are a bit in disarray, the law as it pertains to the Chancellor is not. I think we are safe in addressing this issue.
[06:56] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[06:56] Delia Lake: imo is the constitutional function within the government, the responsibilities assigned, then the authorities, powers and tools to carry out those functions and responsibilities
[06:57] Mizou Vavoom: agree with Delia
[06:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia, then would you agree that Widget's attempt to outline the role of the Chancellor gives us a template if you will to move forward?
[06:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Delia?
[06:59] Delia Lake: i think Widget's template is a good start, very good start on listing possibilities
[06:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nods
[06:59] Delia Lake: and that we have some steps before we get to assessing that
[07:00] Mizou Vavoom: yes, i am in total agreement with widgets template, it is clear
[07:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok, I don't see a need for a vote, so unless there is an objection we will use the template provided by Widget.
[07:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand,
[07:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo?
[07:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think its a good clear list, just maybe not done yet.. she did a good job with what she could find
[07:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so as long as we can add to it, then good
[07:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[07:02] Tor Karlsvalt: ty
[07:02] Dawg: the base is a good start I agree
[07:02] Covey Homewood: no objection
[07:02] Tor Karlsvalt: good
[07:03] Dawg: hi josjoha
[07:03] josjoha moonglow: ❁ ⒽⒺⓁⓁⓄ ❁
[07:03] josjoha moonglow: Dawg :) hello every1
[07:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure we will need to return to this again and again before we settle on the full mission and role of the Chancellor.
[07:03] Tor Karlsvalt: moving on.
[07:04] Tor Karlsvalt: The land Clause has been long considered too broad by many.
[07:05] Tor Karlsvalt: it states for the record: The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power:
(a) to determine the use to which any and all land in CDS shall be put
[07:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Anyone have a motion or suggestion on how we should proceed in amending this item in the constitution?
[07:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes.
[07:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo
[07:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: You just said earlier you were going to go through a process
[07:06] Delia Lake: I think we need to look at that clause re land use first
[07:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: to first look at functions of the chancellor
[07:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: then the powers
[07:06] Delia Lake: yes functions then powers
[07:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so why now eagerly pose we change the consititution to limit ONE power
[07:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes stick with the plan you just set forward.. because as leslie said
[07:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we need to give power to anything that a function needs to accomplish that function
[07:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: POWERs just means the tools to complete a task
[07:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[07:08] Tor Karlsvalt: So, agreed, we should outline what the chancellor is called upon to do and what we think he is responsible for, then determine what powers are required.
[07:08] Delia Lake: the main functions for the exec in the constitution are coordination and planning
[07:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Anyone have a motion as to how we might begin this discussion? Perhaps on the forum?
[07:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand if no one else does
[07:09] Widget Whiteberry: Tor, I have a need to think things through with the Commission members
[07:10] Widget Whiteberry: this being my first experience of this kind
[07:10] josjoha moonglow: (I have written a Constitutional amendment on this weeks ago, it' on the forums ... land & chancellor powers)
[07:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand..
[07:10] Delia Lake: 1 are those important? 2. are their other functions not powers but functions that are essential for the exec to function on a day to day basis
[07:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Widget, noted.
[07:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo?
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I think the constitution has to be taken as the whole thing.. Delia is now trying to say that that one statement in the constitution now has to be used ONLY and we have to look at the entirety of what is sai d about teh chancellor in the constiution.. a MAIN purpose is not the ONLY purpose as you see clearly when you read the whole thing
[07:11] Shep: Hi Ariel
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: But ..
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think as a starting poin t on the forums
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the best thing to do is
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: have a list by citizens
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: of what THEY think
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the duties of the chancellor should be
[07:11] Delia Lake: I am NOT saying that we only lok at 1 section.
[07:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if our ultimate goal is a job desctiption
[07:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we do start
[07:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yeild to Delia
[07:12] Delia Lake: but we must start at the beginning with the exec functions
[07:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that is what i was going to say ..
[07:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: The functions that the community thinks the chancellor should serve.
[07:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: then we make the rest from there
[07:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: But you are missing someting
[07:13] Delia Lake: again, Article II – The Executive

Section 1 – The Chancellor

The Chancellor will serve as the executive of CDS, working to coordinate and plan community projects.

[07:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the statement in the constitution is not comprehensive about what the constitution says the chancellor does
[07:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are being misleading here delia
[07:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that is NOT comprehensive
[07:13] Delia Lake: that is the set up in the constitution for the executive function
[07:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have to look at the entirety of what the chancellor does per the constitution
[07:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Lets refrain from questioning motives behind statements.
[07:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes but its clear that it has other functions
[07:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: or the powers wouldn't be written as they are
[07:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: are you saying the constitution is wrong delia ?
[07:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why does the chancellor have other powers per the constitution too ?
[07:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok hold on Cleo and Delia, lets stop the banter.
[07:15] Delia Lake: if that is not sufficient to carry out everyday necessary runnings of the CDS community then we need to modify that as a constitutional amendment
[07:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: OK . .. so the question that Tor asked was what to do on the forums..
[07:15] Tor Karlsvalt: How do you think we should proceed?
[07:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i said that we need to ask the community what functions the chancellor should serve
[07:16] Dawg: might I interject?
[07:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Dawg?
[07:16] Dawg: I realize I am the new comer
[07:17] Dawg: BUT...as the in place rules and constitution are set..why not just the committee
[07:17] Dawg: bring a proposal forward for a vote?
[07:17] Dawg: takeing ideas as offered from the citizens
[07:17] Dawg: done
[07:17] Tor Karlsvalt: ty
[07:17] Covey Homewood: I just want to say that I have complete confidence in Delia's integrity.
[07:18] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you Covey
[07:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i do too !
[07:18] Mizou Vavoom: and I second that
[07:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: me thirds
[07:18] josjoha moonglow: Tor ? *raises hand*
[07:18] Tor Karlsvalt: Jos?
[07:18] Dawg: agreed
[07:18] Covey Homewood: Would it help to back-up a little further and make it clear why this commission was formed in the first place? Also, what the commission is charged with doing.
[07:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes covey !
[07:18] josjoha moonglow: I have written about exactly this already a Constitutional ammendment & Forum topic: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4128
[07:18] Tor Karlsvalt: one sec Jos, let covey continue
[07:18] josjoha moonglow: done.
[07:19] josjoha moonglow: ♡k sorry.
[07:19] Tor Karlsvalt: covey?
[07:20] Covey Homewood: Just to make it clear. I think this is a big task we have been charged with and we need to approach it piece by piece. I think Cleo has given much thought to these matters and may have a "big picture" to work with.
[07:20] Covey Homewood: I, on the other hand need baby steps.
[07:20] Tor Karlsvalt: done?
[07:20] Covey Homewood: sorry, yes, done.
[07:21] Delia Lake: I think input from the community is great but to do that we would need to set out the context including some history and what the commission is charged with doing re wat Covey says. thecommission charge is the boundary for this discussion
[07:21] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, jos did you have any more to add?
[07:21] josjoha moonglow: Tor: only the odd feeling that there is now a whole commission on a thread that was ignored on the forum ;) heheh, but please carry on, I agree that the Chancellor power on land should not be so broad. Keep going.
[07:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, ty
[07:22] josjoha moonglow: ty Tor, most generous.
[07:22] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you delia, did you have more to add?
[07:23] Delia Lake: can we start with the functions as stated? 1 are those sufficient? 2 if not what would be added to be t 1/3 branch of govenment
[07:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[07:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we need to break this down.
[07:26] Tor Karlsvalt: Commission members should be tackle this land clause issue now? pleave vote
[07:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: gwyn had the citizens vote yesterday , do we all vote too ?
[07:26] Widget Whiteberry: no
[07:26] Delia Lake: I vote no on tackling the land clause issue first
[07:27] Tor Karlsvalt: No, as I understand the mandate of this commission only commission members vote.
[07:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: When gwyn had the meeting on the groups she let all the citizens vote on issues ..
[07:27] Covey Homewood: not at this time
[07:27] Mizou Vavoom: I think we should wait so no
[07:27] Widget Whiteberry: I vote no on tackling the land clause issue first
[07:27] Delia Lake: Gwyn's commission is differentin construct ion. this is a 5 person commission. Gwyn's is an open one
[07:27] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, that is the sense right now.
[07:28] Tor Karlsvalt: We will defer on the land clause issue.
[07:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Have the commission members viewed the Hippo law I propose to replace CDSL 13-03?
[07:29] Delia Lake: yes
[07:29] Covey Homewood: no, I'm sorry. I seem to have missed that.
[07:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Is it on the Legislative thread.. ??
[07:29] Widget Whiteberry: I have not
[07:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I suppose I should do this formally, I motion that we consider recommending my proposed law to replace CDSL 13 - 3
[07:30] Tor Karlsvalt: No it isn't cleo, not yet
[07:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So we have a small group of people in CDS, hand picked by Tor to change the chancellor powers in CDS with out letting the citizens vote on the commission ?
[07:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia listens
[07:30] Tor Karlsvalt: We lost Mizou
[07:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So you arent publishing this proposed law publically Tor, may i ask you why sir?
[07:31] Dawg: wb
[07:31] Tor Karlsvalt: welcome back Mizou
[07:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo, I will if the commission wants to recommend it.
[07:31] Widget Whiteberry: Tor
[07:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: There are transctips of the private commission meetings ?
[07:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok
[07:31] Widget Whiteberry: I'd like us to read the proposed law and then discuss it
[07:31] Covey Homewood: This is our first meeting.
[07:32] josjoha moonglow: raises hand
[07:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia listens more.
[07:32] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Widget
[07:32] Widget Whiteberry: Perhaps the balance of this meeting shoould just be citizen input and concerns
[07:32] Mizou Vavoom: sorry crashed, am in iPad now so can't really do much
[07:33] josjoha moonglow: claps for Widget hehe
[07:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Tor going for one chancellor power this way without doing what you said about gathering citizen input about the Functions of the chancellor first seems.. um...
[07:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not what the process you said would be
[07:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: So you want to go first for a law to change the collection of land, without doing the committees work of gathering public info on the chancellors Function ?
[07:33] Delia Lake: I think we are premature on assessing tht bill. we have other steps first
[07:33] Tor Karlsvalt: The RA added this hippo issue to the mandate of the commission.
[07:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: agreed DELIA
[07:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: do it in order Tor
[07:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you hvent even asked citizens one thing, and you are writing a law?
[07:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done.
[07:34] Covey Homewood: Sorry, I'm a little confused. I thought we were going to clarify the charge of the commission and the function (purpose) of the chancellor. Now, we are being asked to vote on something some of us have not even seen yet.
[07:34] josjoha moonglow: raises hand
[07:34] Tor Karlsvalt: My suggestion is to consider this law.
[07:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: before you ask for functions
[07:34] Tor Karlsvalt: ok let me back up.
[07:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Yes he said that Covey !
[07:35] Tor Karlsvalt: The point here is to introduce this law.
[07:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: tor you are doing things out of order
[07:35] Tor Karlsvalt: We do not have to vote to recommend it as is to the RA.
[07:35] Covey Homewood: Tor, I am not ready, at this meeting, to vote on any laws.
[07:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Tor, in CDS we ask the citizens first before we write laws. And you said that you wanted to first get input from citizens on chancellors functions.
[07:36] Tor Karlsvalt: No, the RA voted to give us this issue, and I note that at present the current tier law does not address Hippo.
[07:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: May i make a suggestion ?
[07:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I reiterate, the RA asked this commission to address this issue.
[07:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: HOld your law until you get through the steps you already determined, then do the law to comply with all of that. It might become obsolete.
[07:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Did they tell you to do that first, Tor? o
[07:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Just wait with it til its the right time . thats all.
[07:37] Mizou Vavoom: Tor , if RA did then they gave us that power
[07:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Collection of tier is an ongoing and immediate concern. I do not see the exec being removed from that concern.
[07:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Who knows what the citizens may say they want? The treasurer used to do that.
[07:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Maybe we do a whole different department to do tier collection ?
[07:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Keep an open mind.
[07:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Delia is right, look at functions first.
[07:40] Delia Lake: laws support and facilitate carrying out constitutional duties. we must start with the constitution imo. I am unwilling to stipulate that the constitution as currently written is perfect needs no modification without looking at it, without discussing and assessing it. at least the exec function as this commission is charged with doing
[07:41] Widget Whiteberry nods
[07:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Granted, Delia, however, the current tier collection law, is an immediate concern.
[07:42] Widget Whiteberry: Isn't the entire charge of this Commission an immediate concern?
[07:42] Tor Karlsvalt: And I might add has been the subject of much consternation recently before the SC.
[07:43] Delia Lake: then we need to get through the functions step asap and competently
[07:43] Covey Homewood: Tor, I'm sorry, but I do not feel comfortable voting on a law at this time. I don't even know what the "immediate concern" is about.
[07:43] Tor Karlsvalt: We do not have to vote on it, only vote to consider it.
[07:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think that was the point of my motion.
[07:44] Widget Whiteberry: Please restate your motion
[07:45] Covey Homewood: I am willing to consider just about anything. But, as I and others have stated, there is an order with which things need to be considered. Beginning with a clear statement of the commissions charge and a clear statement of the chancellors function.
[07:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can we see the proposal too ? or is it private ?
[07:45] Tor Karlsvalt: [07:30:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I suppose I should do this formally, I motion that we consider recommending my proposed law to replace CDSL 13 - 3
[07:46] Tor Karlsvalt: the law is in the agenda
[07:47] Covey Homewood: ney
[07:47] Widget Whiteberry: your motion is to consider a replacement to CDSL 13 -3. When do you propose we do that?
[07:48] Widget Whiteberry notes the time
[07:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Because, CDSL 13-3 does not address using Hippo, it is geared to the now obsolete proprietary system used prior to Hippo.
[07:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[07:48] Widget Whiteberry: nods
[07:48] josjoha moonglow: before this is all done (is this about the Chancellor powers?) I will give the commission the NCs of the forum thread from Tue Oct 08 2013 (!) on it. Dawg mentioned he "enjoyed reading them," perhaps these may be part of the citizens input then.
[07:48] Widget Whiteberry: may I?
[07:48] Tor Karlsvalt: I might add that we have been operating without a good law on this matter for two years.
[07:49] Widget Whiteberry: Tor, are you asking the Commission to include this matter in our agenda?
[07:49] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[07:50] Widget Whiteberry: without specifying the order or process, I'm in agreement
[07:50] Covey Homewood: Oh, I thought you were asking us to consider it and vote on it today.
[07:50] Tor Karlsvalt: This is a serious issue, RA asked we address this and the current situation has caused turmoil and argument before the SC.
[07:50] Mizou Vavoom: yes on considering at future date
[07:51] Tor Karlsvalt: No, we need to begin discussing this issue.
[07:51] Tor Karlsvalt: As per our mandate by the RA.
[07:51] Mizou Vavoom: as from today ?
[07:51] Covey Homewood: Do we have a copy of the mandate?
[07:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Regarding this, we can amend it, scrap it, keep it, whatever.
[07:52] Tor Karlsvalt: It is in the RA transcripts, I would have to dig it out Covey.
[07:52] Widget Whiteberry: we'll need to all read it
[07:52] Tor Karlsvalt: That is fine.
[07:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I hope you will post it on the forums and ask for citizen input too :)
[07:52] Widget Whiteberry: is it possible for us to have a dedicated forum thread, where Commission members only can post?
[07:53] Covey Homewood: Yes, copy of mandate and charge of commission. We need to know what these are.
[07:53] Widget Whiteberry: with a separate thread for citizen comment?
[07:53] Tor Karlsvalt: we do have one
[07:53] Delia Lake: I will find the mandateof the commission and post it
[07:53] Covey Homewood: Thank you Delia.
[07:53] Tor Karlsvalt: viewforum.php?f=55
[07:53] Widget Whiteberry: Tor, what do we have?
[07:54] Tor Karlsvalt: That is a link to the forum board for only commission members.
[07:55] Widget Whiteberry: thank you, idn't realize
[07:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok we can table this for the next meeting. I note we are almost at 2 hours. I am not one to want three hour meetings.
[07:57] Covey Homewood: Between now and our next meeting, could we get a copy of the mandate?
[07:57] Widget Whiteberry: Is there necessary business before we adjourn?
[07:57] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[07:57] Delia Lake: I cannot stay longer I have a rl event
[07:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like to meet next week.
[07:58] Covey Homewood: So, perhaps one of the first things on the next meeting agenda is a review and agreement on the mandate and charge?
[07:58] Mizou Vavoom: yes, next week same time ok for me
[07:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Saturday morning alas is bad for me next week.
[07:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Covey good idea.
[07:58] josjoha moonglow: bye Delia
[07:58] Tor Karlsvalt: I will put that on the agenda.
[07:58] Widget Whiteberry: ah wait please
[07:58] Mizou Vavoom: bye Delia and thanks
[07:58] Covey Homewood: Next week, same place, same time. :)
[07:58] Widget Whiteberry: Covey, do you see any reason not to discuss that on our forum thread?
[07:59] Tor Karlsvalt: well I have to work next week at this time.
[07:59] Tor Karlsvalt: I could make the afternoon.
[07:59] Mizou Vavoom: what time afternoon?
[07:59] Covey Homewood: No, no reason, just so that we have an understanding before moving on to any other business.
[08:00] Tor Karlsvalt: um, anytime after 4PM SLT
[08:00] Widget Whiteberry: I think we'll get further if we use the forum
[08:00] Tor Karlsvalt: or Sunday Morning at this time..
[08:00] Covey Homewood: That's fine.
[08:00] Mizou Vavoom: ok not so good for me as is after mid nite in Europe
[08:00] Delia Lake: yes, Widget's afternoon is Mizou's night
[08:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: WAIT tor
[08:00] Covey Homewood: Thant's fine Wdget.
[08:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: If you put this on the forum the way you did, the citizens cannot participate
[08:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Can you also put a public thread Tor.
[08:01] Mizou Vavoom: I can miss one and contribute on forum
[08:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: an official one
[08:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Sure
[08:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo sure
[08:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Would sunday at 6AM be good?
[08:01] Mizou Vavoom: Sunday morning ok
[08:01] Mizou Vavoom: thx
[08:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Church day for most in the usa
[08:02] Widget Whiteberry: not exactly good, but I'll do it
[08:02] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[08:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i object
[08:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Well lets plan for our next meeting on Sunday, 14 Sept at 6AM
[08:02] Tor Karlsvalt: What Cleo?
[08:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think that RL a lot of people go to church sunday mornings
[08:03] Delia Lake: 6 am sunday is fine for me
[08:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and thats kinda bad for the segment that does
[08:03] Widget Whiteberry: Cleo, is it bad for you?
[08:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Well a lot don't, Cleo and that is one good reason to have meetings on some Saturdays.
[08:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes
[08:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but we have cut out a distinct group
[08:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: itts discriminatory
[08:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: to a specific group
[08:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Our commission spans the N America and Europe. So do our citizens.
[08:04] Delia Lake: any time we choose will be bad for someone in the CDS
[08:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Delia
[08:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: religious discrimination on sudays, not someone, a whole group
[08:04] Widget Whiteberry: sigh
[08:04] Covey Homewood: If Cleo can find a time that works for all of us, I'm good with that..
[08:04] Mizou Vavoom: pfff
[08:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Next meeting will Sunday 14 Sept 2014 at 6AM SLT
[08:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 2 on sunday
[08:05] Mizou Vavoom: yes
[08:05] Widget Whiteberry: Cleo, I work on Sundays
[08:05] Mizou Vavoom: 2 is 10 at nite for me
[08:05] Tor Karlsvalt: We are just over two hours and that is basically the time limit I want to keep.
[08:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok but my point is noted.
[08:05] josjoha moonglow: i prefer to rest on saturday ;) ... sunday is better for me ;)
[08:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it picks a definite class of american Christians and discriminates against them
[08:05] Widget Whiteberry: yes, it is when you usually attend church
[08:06] Widget Whiteberry: 6am Sundays slt
[08:06] Shep: Rubbish!
[08:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Cleo we are doing nothing of the kind.
[08:06] josjoha moonglow: perhaps the hour can be chosen to avoid church-hour ?
[08:06] Dawg: eep
[08:06] Widget Whiteberry: but this is no a class sitation
[08:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: of course it violates the Declaration of Human rights
[08:06] Widget Whiteberry: Jos, Church hours span most of Sundays
[08:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok, the date is set.
[08:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it is class
[08:06] josjoha moonglow: ♡k Widget
[08:06] Shep: My God
[08:06] josjoha moonglow: maybe church can be moved :P
[08:07] Tor Karlsvalt: this meeting is adjourned unless there is an objection from the commission members.
[08:07] Mizou Vavoom: no objection
[08:07] Widget Whiteberry: no objection
Widget Whiteberry
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Re: Chancellor Powers Commission Meeting to be Held

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Abby and Ceasar, too.
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