Will there be an election?

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Josie Fotherington
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Will there be an election?

Post by Josie Fotherington »

The deadline for candidates to declare for the next term is in a few days. Has anyone declared their candidacy?

I assume that nothing like this has ever happened before? If there are no candidates then how can there be an election?
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Han Held »

No, and yes this apparently has happened before, or so I have been told in-world
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Han Held »

Han Held wrote:This apparently has happened before, or so I have been told in-world
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"We don’t do this "thing" ’cause it’s permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we’re compelled." -Rorsach, "The Watchmen"
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Almut Brunswick
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Almut Brunswick »

Due to the latest "non-elections" because of an equal number of seats and candidates, I grabbed this old thread and put it on top again. I would like to know if there is any law which regulates the situation when there is a) equality between seats and candidates, b) less candidates than seats or as worst case c) no candidates.

My personal opinion is that in the cases a) and b), a formal election must nonetheless be called, because otherwise the canditates do not get the vote from the soverign, the People of the CDS. Even when the outcome would be the same like when they would just be appointed by the SC, they actually lack any democratic legitimation this way. In case c), the RA and the Chancellor would need to remain in office and the election period needs to be extended till new candidates have been found.

I would simply like to know how it is treated in the CDS and what to add to the CDS New Citizen's Guide in this respect.

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Tanoujin Milestone
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

Dear Almut, thank you for this interesting topic. I will stick to the facts for now.

a) When there are 5 candidates for 5 seats, we usually skip the election process. Our election method is STV (Single Transferable Vote). This is prescribed by NL12-1 STV Quota Bill.

To get a bit deeper into this I will give you an excerpt from the english Wikipedia regarding STV:
The counting process works thus: votes are totalled, and a quota (the minimum number of votes required to win a seat) is derived.[a] If the elector's first-ranked candidate achieves the quota, the candidate is declared elected; and, in some STV systems, any surplus vote is transferred to other candidates in proportion to the next back-up preference marked on the ballots. If more candidates than seats remain, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated, with the votes in their favor being transferred to other candidates as determined by the voters' next back-up preference. These elections and eliminations, and vote transfers if applicable, continue until enough candidates exceed quota to fill all the seats or until there are only as many remaining candidates as there are unfilled seats, at which point the remaining candidates are declared elected.
If there are only five candidates, the software will come to a result very quickly: „until there are only as many remaining candidates as there are unfilled seats, at which point the remaining candidates are declared elected.“ ist the case from begin on, lol. So, this is kind of build into the STV election method. You can see there is really no point in running the software due to our election system.

b) if there are less candidates than seats, the SC will call by-elections and we all get a little nervous and ask ourselves if we can volunteer a friend or - horrible dictu - run for RA ourselves. The by-elections will be called again and again, until a merciful soul saves us from the unknown, yet interesting consequences like reducing the number of seats or whatever.

If c) there are no candidates, this would be the end of our representative system and we would have to look out for other ways of participation people may prefer, like a republic of councils (Räterepublik, Soviet System) or whatever.

----

So, Almut, to get a little more personal: I am tired of this pseudo-elections we have since I forgot when. It happens all the time. Do me a favor and declare yourself, as I did, to keep it up and get some work done ;) It would be so cool if you run for RA, I am longing for a real election and see no problem to work with you on the Assembly (If I get in then, lol), because I can see „your true colors“, and I like them.
Is it that you think you are not worth to get in and have your say or why do you refuse to ride the horse? Believe me, you are a good choice for the job, compared to some people we already had in the Assembly.
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Almut Brunswick »

@Tanoujin Milestone : Thank you for your elaborate explaning! In this context, skipping the election when there is an equal number of candidates and seats follows an inner logic because of the used software. It remains, however, a more pragmatic/technocratic than a democratic solution. I don't like that procedure very much, but it seems to be "historically grown".

Regarding my own RA candidature, I must admit: I simply totally missed all the election preparations! That is mainly my own fault (or that of my currently very busy RL). Apparently inworld notes about the elections were always sent out when I was not inworld, though I'm actually very often in my store, as you may have seen. I was wondering about the end of the legislature period which couldn't be that far ahead anymore, because I wanted to candidate for the RA, ... till I eventually heard by accident yesterday that the entire show was already over, and this even without election :( Of course, when I would have looked into this forum, there is a section with official notifications about the elections, so I could have known about it. I also could have looked into my received group messages. But inworld I couldn't see *any* evidence like posters etc. (at least not in Neufreistadt). A campaign would hardly make sense when there are just five candidates for the RA and one for the Chancellor's office, but some posters on central places which annouce the election wouldn't hurt. For this time though, it is too late now.
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Almut, really this is ridiculous. Why on earth would we go through the process of election when there is no contest? That would be a waste of time and of money since the CDS has to pay for the software to run the election. Who would bother to vote when the 5 people who put themselves forward for RA, and me for Chancellor, are a done-deal since there weren't enough people to contest? In real life, we call the people in this situation 'acclaimed' since there was no actual election process.

Really you cannot blame other people for not specifically notifying you individually, or expecting a poster put somewhere that you might see, when there were multiple announcements through the group inworld and here on the forums that you yourself have acknowledged. If you don't have your messages to your email when you are offline, then you will miss things, and if you don't check the forums regularly then you will miss things. That's up to you as it is to every other individual.
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

I stand corrected btw, there will be exactly one by-election if there are not enough candidates.
You are right, Almut, it is too late now, but the term is only six months, so it is what it is for now.
You might consider to switch to offline notification and check the forum on a regular basis as Rosie suggests.
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Almut Brunswick
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Almut Brunswick »

As I already have written, I put the blame on me that I didn't pursued the Forum in this respect and that I didn't check the CDS group messages, too. On the other hand, I must also state that I became a CDS citizen in December 2019 - shortly after the last legislative period has begun. I was thus not familiar with the campaign and election procedure, and nobody apparently felt a need to add the respective information to the CDS New Citizens Guide draft. Probably it was taken as self-explaining and also I myself trusted on "learning by doing" once the election time would come closer. That was my fault, too, because it is not self-explaining. Meanwhile Lilith has provided me a link which explains the polling procedure with that external polling tool which she had posted before the last election and I'm going to add this information to the CDS New Citizens Guide.

Because of so many groups I belong to, I actually don't want to forward any inworld messages to my RL e-mail account. It would flood my account in no time and the chance that I would nonetheless miss important messages between all the other annoucements is immense. But now I know about the ways where and how to inform myself.

@Rosie Gray, I'm sorry to disagree, but it is NOT ridiculous to ask for a formal mandate of the people! In my humble opinion, the contest between candidates is only one part of every election. The other part is that you need to get the acceptance and order of the sovereign - the electors - for the next legislation period which is here not the case. Of course I can comprehend the cost- and time-saving argument (why is this external tool so darn expensive to run?), but as far as I have seen in the Constitution and in the Laws, there is no definition of this surely pragmatic way to install a new RA and a new Chancellor. In real life, I have been a member of an election board for works council elections several times, and skipping an election just because of the equality of candidate and seat numbers is not permitted by the German Works Consitution Act due to the reasons I outlined above. It would be simply illegal and the installed workers council would be null and void. Of course, the CDS is not a German workers council, but I think a clarification in an Elections Act (which should - by the way - be named this way) of that procedure would add some transparency and would legitimate which seems to be just a sort of habit so far. Or an alternative way like for instance calling a moot (people's assembly) prior to the first assembly of the RA for formal confirmation should be considered. Otherwise it could be seen as a technocratic and not really democratic act.

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Tanoujin Milestone
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Re: Will there be an election?

Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

Nice to hear you have been on a board for elections of german work councils. I sat in a work council too and have been chairof the board after that until I retired. So I understand your perspective, both as colleague and newcomer to CDS. And you are right, things are different and a bit complicated in CDS, and it might be more difficult to find your way in that we oldbies think.
I think it is very valuable that you ask questions, the more because there is your newcomer’s manual in the pipeline. That might draw new people who we need urgently.
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