26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Proposals for legislation and discussions of these

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Bagheera
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26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Bagheera »

Shep Titian [08:08] Ok .. well we are quorate so we will begin
[08:08] Calling the meeting to order
[08:08] Hi Calli

Callipygian Christensen [08:08] Callipygian Christensen waves

Soro Dagostino [08:09] Soro Dagostino waves at Calli

Lilith Ivory [08:09] HI Rosie, Hi Calli

Shep Titian [08:09] Ok Birch approves the agenda as stated .. Ranma do you aprove the agenda?

Rosie Gray [08:09] ?

Soro Dagostino [08:09] Soro Dagostino Rosie too

Ranma Tardis [08:09] aye
[08:10] I move to approve the agenda
[08:10] am off this am

Shep Titian [08:10] Speakers on todays agenda items are Rosie Gray .. representing the Guild
[08:11] Ok Any citizens concerns other than the item on agenda?

Bagheera Kristan [08:11] raises hand

Shep Titian [08:11] Bags

Bagheera Kristan [08:12] At Gwyn's last meeting, it came out that I - as RA Archivist - was supposed to be extracting laws as they were passed and posting them... I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that, so I am currently going through the transcripts and doing that now just for the record
[08:13] trying to get all the laws current
[08:13] I expect to have that done this week
[08:13] done

Pip Torok [08:14] Pip Torok hopes we'll all be instant lawyers for the election ...

Shep Titian [08:14] Awww thank you Bags ... I don't think we changed anything important this last session ... we've been focussed on building

Bagheera Kristan [08:14] yes

Shep Titian [08:15] Anyone else?
[08:15] Ok
[08:15] moving on
[08:15] RA any concerns other than the main item ?

Moonrise Azalee [08:15] good lord, ok im back
[08:16] (sorry)

Shep Titian [08:16] WB .. nourished I hope

Moonrise Azalee [08:16] well, im aiming for quiet but well nourished is good too

Rosie Gray [08:16] :D

Shep Titian [08:16] Lets Birch catch up

Moonrise Azalee [08:16] scrolling

Shep Titian [08:17] Are you ready Rosie?

Moonrise Azalee [08:17] ok. caught up

Shep Titian [08:17] ok cool

Rosie Gray [08:17] yes
[08:18] ?

Shep Titian [08:18] AS there is no old business we move on to the main item .. redesign of LA .. Rosie I give you the floor

Rosie Gray [08:18] thank you Shep
[08:19] As the representative of the CDS Artisan Guild
[08:19] I'd like to present this design you've all been looking at... Calli's design
[08:19] as the one we'd like to recommend for reworking the Locus Amoenus sim
[08:20] as you can see it enlarges the harbour area
[08:20] and creates a focal point, with the little fishing village
[08:20] this would give us some small lots, similar to the walled city in NFS too
[08:20] and of course there are the other varied sized lots
[08:21] with this plan, we can leave the Time Machine where it is
[08:21] and there are a few other lots that can stay as they are too

Bagheera Kristan [08:22] raises hand

Rosie Gray [08:22] I think we may need to adjust the road on the far right so that it stays where it is now, since it connects up with the road on CN

Shep Titian [08:22] When Rosie is done Bags

Bagheera Kristan [08:22]

Rosie Gray [08:23] this plan is to work with the new them of Tuscany that was approved by the RA
[08:23] now, for those people that may have to move some
[08:23] I've discussed with our Chancellor the need to compensate people
[08:24] by giving them same sized lots, or buying them out at what they paid, at their choice
[08:25] the details of this need to be worked out still
[08:25] so, waiting for questions now

Shep Titian [08:26] Ok Bags

Moonrise Azalee [08:26] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Bagheera Kristan [08:26] okay just a moment... let me type this out

Shep Titian [08:26] After Bags Birch

Ranma Tardis [08:26] raises hand

Moonrise Azalee [08:26] Moonrise Azalee nods

Shep Titian [08:26] Ran after Birch

Ranma Tardis [08:26] nods

Bagheera Kristan [08:28] Since it appears both my builds... the Insulae which belongs to CDS and my own building and lot, the Library, are both off this map I'd like to hear the benefits and thought behind each parcel created... the reason I am asking is because I did build both of my builds with careful consideration for making the whole sim better so - not a judgment, just a question "why these parcels? what makes each parcel size/location something appealing to a prospective citizen?

Callipygian Christensen [08:28] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand

Bagheera Kristan [08:29] done

Alexia Carnell [08:29] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Shep Titian [08:29] Rosie do you want to respond?

Rosie Gray [08:29] sure
[08:29] good question Bags ?

Bagheera Kristan [08:29]

Shep Titian [08:30] Calli after Ranma and Alexia after Calli

Rosie Gray [08:30] the plan, although it's a bit hard to tell from the drawing, was to generally have a cliff down to beach along the left side of the drawing
[08:31] and I also wanted to say, that just because some lots are changing around a bit
[08:31] that it doesn't mean we can't keep existing builds
[08:31] they might have to be picked up for a time though

Bagheera Kristan [08:31]

Rosie Gray [08:31] there does need to be some terrascaping done

Shep Titian [08:32] ok Bags?

Rosie Gray [08:32] the biggist part of the plan centres on the enlarged harbour area and the fishing village, which is all currently common land
[08:32] does that answer your question Bags?

Shep Titian [08:32] OK Birch

Bagheera Kristan [08:32] I was wondering about t lines, what does a citizen see - what is their view - from their parcels?

Shep Titian [08:32] oop

Bagheera Kristan [08:32] sorry

Moonrise Azalee [08:32] Moonrise Azalee waits

Rosie Gray [08:32] well there needs to be terrascaping done

Bagheera Kristan [08:32] yes

Rosie Gray [08:32] some of this you'll have to imagine

Bagheera Kristan [08:33] okay - I guess I just want to say that each citizen should have some sort of view that's all

Rosie Gray [08:33] but the idea was to have the sim finished around the edges (down to beach)
[08:33] aah, yes

Bagheera Kristan [08:33] nice & nice job, calli

Shep Titian [08:33] k Birch

Moonrise Azalee [08:34] k... well first of all, i just wanted to know is the top of the image West and the bottom East?

Rosie Gray [08:34] the harbour to sea is where it is currently

Moonrise Azalee [08:35] so the top is flowing into CN?

Rosie Gray [08:35] yes
[08:35] and to the right is Monastery

Moonrise Azalee [08:36] Okay, well I just wanted to say I really like the layout, I think it makes a far better use of land. LA has always seemed so random to me. This looks nice. Done

Shep Titian [08:36] thanks
[08:36] Ranma

Ranma Tardis [08:38] I am concerned about citizens being forced to relocate. I do not find your compensation plan correct. Also there will be cries of favoritism by some. How will this be managed and what is the due process to assure fairness?

Rosie Gray [08:39] these details need to be worked out, with the Chancellor
[08:39] but the idea is to keep people happy

Ranma Tardis [08:40] Again there is no due process of law? I like the plan but representing the citizens makes me have to ask.

Rosie Gray [08:40] I don't think the laws address this issue

Ranma Tardis [08:41] ok, done

Shep Titian [08:41] thanks

Rosie Gray [08:41] and this is why we do need to write it out carefully so that everyone understands the process

Shep Titian [08:41] Calli

Callipygian Christensen [08:41] thank you - just to clarify, this was a draft done with some specifics in mind from the group disscussions1 A fishing village on a larger harbour, 2 Time Machine in same spot for LM access 3 All prcels having road access or water access or both
[08:42] keeping canal and river 'in line' as well. Other thn that the parcels were meant to just be 'there' I have no idea if there are too many or not enough - so this was just to get the main 'we wants' of people in a concept
[08:42] done

Pip Torok [08:42] Pip Torok raises hand

Shep Titian [08:43] alexia then Pip

Alexia Carnell [08:43] More or less same question as Ranma's - for the moment - this plan was made when LA was a desert - did you consider carefully the troubles it will create, carrying it on now, for LA (and other sims) new citizens?

Shep Titian [08:44] there is still a lot empty Alexia

Alexia Carnell [08:44] done

Shep Titian [08:44] Pip

Pip Torok [08:45] May I suggest that the map forms part of the transcript to this meeting (for obvious reason)? done

Alexia Carnell [08:46] Alexia Carnell raises hand

Lilith Ivory [08:46] Lilith Ivory raises her hand too

Shep Titian [08:46] Alexia

Alexia Carnell [08:46] I must thank anybody who ed with the "favoritism" of preserving my shop location in LA in this plan.
But i think at this point there is SOMETHING MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than my shop, and it's some basic principles i will try to resume here, if you allow me... can i go on?.

Shep Titian [08:47] Yes go on

Alexia Carnell [08:47] First. As a citizen i have to say the whole LA issue has been managed in a weird way (least i can say). Forcing theme changes. Encouraging spontaneous rezzings. Preparing redesign plans at the desk without sharing enough with citizens. Locking estate transactions to new citizens. Spreading rumours. All this lead to an escalation of misunderstandings, bullying, griefing from citizens against other citizens. So what i ask to our rulers is to step down from their hyperuranian meetings and see what happens on the ground, discuss, share, spend some of their precious time LISTENING and COMMUNICATING in world. Relations work better in world than in a freezing forum, which works well as an archive but is not a problem solver.
[08:47] Second. I had a nice experience in the last days ing a noob to organize his plot. I could see Cds from his point of view, and it all sounded hard-to.understand, hostile, cumbersome. I suddenly realized that ING NEW CITIZENS to deal with strict covenants and impositions or whatever their needs are, is a priority, if we dont want to lose them. So again some more bottom - up approach would not be bad: and never impose.
[08:47] I had another experience i want to share with you. Last year i got a residential plot in another Sim. I wanted some terraforming changes and i had it in one day. I was allowed to build but I had to get my house approved, rezzin it in the sky first. They came and gave me some suggestions. I made some changes, they approved and i was allowed to rez. The whole process took a couple of days. A couple of days!!!. How do we call it? Customer care?
[08:48] Fourth. A special attention should be dedicated to citizens who bring in new people, in spite of their bad tempers, and to citizens who want to organize events, open activities as schools, bars, shops. For some weeks i opened a bellydance school near the Time Machine last year and i have to say i brought a lot of visitors. I think Cds should promoting citizen's activities. Be their LOUDSPEAKERS in world, and not their daily nightmare.
[08:48] LAST. My dear friends, THESE above should be our priorities. I understand REDESIGNING a sim, building and landscaping is much more fun. But very simply it's not our core problem. Do you really think that changing a Sim theme or having a top quality landscape will change things and attract more people? Alas you are totally wrong if you believe it. I have seen in these years tens of top quality sims disappear for lack of traffic and business. I have seen some low quality sims surviving and beeing lively and having traffic after five years, just because they had a strong "glue" in their activities that attracted people and made rulers happy to organize them.
[08:49] I suggest you suspend this plan and consider with a bit more attentionn
[08:49] Done

Callipygian Christensen [08:50] Callipygian Christensen has to leave - I wont comment on the speech but will point out this:It isn't 'favouritism', it's courtesy to a long time location with LMs out in the world - feel free to ignore the courtesy offered and move

Soro Dagostino [08:50] Soro Dagostino raises hand

Alexia Carnell [08:50] oh so kind Cally

Shep Titian [08:51] Lil then Soro

Callipygian Christensen [08:51] Callipygian Christensen waves and heads to the chiro

Shep Titian [08:51] Just an aside from me .. well done Calli for writing your speech

Lilith Ivory [08:51] Lilith Ivory lowers her hand again as she is shocked

Rosie Gray [08:51] Calli, and thanks for the excellent plan

Lilith Ivory [08:51] nothing to say atm

Moonrise Azalee [08:52] Calli

Pip Torok [08:52] Pip Torok eraises hand

Lilith Ivory [08:52] Calli

Soro Dagostino [08:52] Soro Dagostino yields to Pip.

Alexia Carnell [08:52] Thanks Cally, i will consider your proposal

Bagheera Kristan [08:53] ((afk for a bit))

Pip Torok [08:53] i take Alexs point about providing "glue" but i fail to see how _cancelling_ the plan will /hinder this necessary process done

Shep Titian [08:54] Soro?

Soro Dagostino [08:54] I believe there needs to be some planning done. LA is a little occupied space and horse lots.
[08:55] It needs covenants. It needs supervision by the "government"
[08:55] Leaving it to the wishes of citizens, without an agreed plan, will lead to disaster.

Tor Karlsvalt [08:56] Tor Karlsvalt listens to everything but is in some bad lag.

Soro Dagostino [08:56] That is unless those who want to "bubble up" want to guaranty the tier for the Sim.

Alexia Carnell [08:56] wonders what the word "agreed" means

Shep Titian [08:57] I believe it will have covenants Soro .. not a free for all

Soro Dagostino [08:57] Done.
[08:59] brb -- warming coffee.

Pip Torok [08:59] Pip Torok raises hand

Shep Titian [08:59] Nice
[08:59] Ok ...

Pip Torok [09:00] Pip Torok has hand still in the air .....

Shep Titian [09:00] Sorry Pip

Tor Karlsvalt [09:01] brb

Bagheera Kristan [09:01] raises hand

Pip Torok [09:02] just to say that i wd go one further than soro .. i wd empower the chancellor to negotiate with citizens who _seriously_ compromise the theme and in necessary to remo ve the build done

Alexia Carnell [09:02]

Pip Torok [09:02] if necessary

Alexia Carnell [09:02] Alexia Carnell wonders if Time Machin could become tuscan

Bagheera Kristan [09:03] ((I may have to run to the kitchen really quick as I have something on the stove, but I do have my hand up- ))

Pip Torok [09:03]

Moonrise Azalee [09:03] Moonrise Azalee raises hand

Shep Titian [09:03] Pip did you change your mind?

Moonrise Azalee [09:04] Moonrise Azalee whispers... he spoke

Pip Torok [09:04] no .. in what respect?

Shep Titian [09:04] Oop sorry

Pip Torok [09:04] np! )

Shep Titian [09:04] Bags then Birch

Bagheera Kristan [09:05] thank you okay... so, considering what Alexia said, and I feelher thoughts are valid, and weighing it against all that has transpired here... the last RA voted on making this change, so it isn't a surprise...
[09:05] but I think Alexia makes some valid points and...
[09:06] I think it is important to acknowledge those who have settled in LA... I do believe there is harmony between the new theme as proposed and the current citizenry, as long as there is flexibility and respect on both sides. The people who settled in LA, I believe chose to be there because they LIKE it
[09:06] so they are not the enemies of the government's plans - - they are the reason for the government's being
[09:07] and I believe there is good common ground as long as effort is made to listen and consider the people who are there
[09:07] done

Shep Titian [09:07] I have to interject .. there were meetings after meetings about this .. not one did I se Alexia there ,.. in fact I told her I would look out for her interests

Bagheera Kristan [09:07] nevertheless, she is a citizen of LA, as am I

Pip Torok [09:07] Pip Torok guesses that the new citizens like the community spirit fully as much as the landscape

Tor Karlsvalt [09:07] Tor Karlsvalt raises hand

Alexia Carnell [09:08] i never receive a guild meeting btw
[09:08] *received

Bagheera Kristan [09:08] okay, done

Shep Titian [09:08] Birch

Moonrise Azalee [09:09] ok....

Shep Titian [09:09] After Birch Tor

Rosie Gray [09:09] guild meetings have been announced through the group, and on the forum

Alexia Carnell [09:10] and i already said my opinions in a previous RA meeting
[09:10] group notices last a whim

Moonrise Azalee [09:10] Well first of all, to address Alexia --- since being a member of the RA there has been lots of talk about how to get new people here. The only thing we didnt do was change the theme. ITs an issue in SL period as many people find more prims and less cost in other grids ---
[09:10] secondly, the point about noobs.....
[09:10] yes, it is a reason i argue for clearer covenants. Not necessarily 'less stringent' butmore clear meaning.....
[09:10] thirdly
[09:11] I am a sim owner.... i am full
[09:11] i have people lined up right now to rent parcels...
[09:12] and my prices are an in between.. but do you know what each new tenant says to me..... 'this place is beautiful.. what a peaceful, attractive place to 'live' ' so yes, aesthetics DOES play a huge role. LA is currently a rather chaotic mess and does not feel 'real' its not very immersive in its appearnce and i feel that the new look is a big step in the right direction. Done.

Ranma Tardis [09:12] raises hand

Tor Karlsvalt [09:13] Thanks
[09:13] Pleahaving some chat lag problems but here goes
[09:14] Last winter I held three long meetings in LA on a theme redo at three different times.
[09:15] The general consensus was a theme change would be a good idea and that Tuscan or Mediterranean would be preferable.
[09:16] As far as promoting citizen interests, that is an excellent idea but I think CDS channels have been open for individuals to promote their interests.

Moonrise Azalee [09:16] Moonrise Azalee nods in agreement

Tor Karlsvalt [09:16] I also would point out that many SL sims have reduced sims. ROMA has cut two sims I think,
[09:16] Ars Avete I understand is out of business.
[09:16] Caledon has downgraded sims.

Bagheera Kristan [09:17] (in counterpoint, Blake Sea Battles has added 5 sims)

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] Without doubt competition for residents is firerse in SL and other grids do take people from SL. I think generally tho, these numbers are small.

Shep Titian [09:18] OK

Tor Karlsvalt [09:18] Done

Shep Titian [09:18] we digress
[09:18] I'm ready to put it to the vote
[09:18] I propose that we accept the redesign plan as presented and discussed, and that the guild and Chancellor be authorized to move forward executing the plan.with a time frame "post-Roman to the end of the 19th century (or pre-WWI)"

Ranma Tardis [09:19] second

Shep Titian [09:19] Vote .. aye

Ranma Tardis [09:19] aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:20] Aye

Shep Titian [09:20] Excellent !!!!!

Alexia Carnell [09:20] Ok my friends - i take your vote and make you a favour - i will take Cally's suggestion and leave LA - and Cds - so you can feel free to build a bright future for the sim. Farewell

Rosie Gray [09:20] ··•°•··..? Applauds! ? ..··•°•··..

Pip Torok [09:20] congratulations everybody!

Rosie Gray [09:20] Rosie Gray notes that some people just cannot be accommodated

Shep Titian [09:20] Rosie and Tor .. can you take this as our request to move ahead with the redevelopment

Rosie Gray [09:21] yes thank you Shep, and thank you Ranma and Birch

Pip Torok [09:21] Pip Torok wd have liked Alexia to have continued with us ...

Moonrise Azalee [09:21] Moonrise Azalee grins. Good Job everyone involved in this redesigning

Bagheera Kristan [09:21] me too pip

Lilith Ivory [09:21] me too

Ranma Tardis [09:21] I have faith the Guild will be fair to all citizens

Rosie Gray [09:22] I don't understand why she is being like that since we said her land would be left alone

Soro Dagostino [09:22] Cleo

Shep Titian [09:22] I agree Soro

Bagheera Kristan [09:22] no, honestly, if you think about it - her brand is Roman themed - and the sim supported that as is

Moonrise Azalee [09:22] I'm looking forward to it, it's very exciting

Bagheera Kristan [09:22] to state post-Roman gives her no incentive to stay

Rosie Gray [09:23] well then she needs to have her own sim, and pay for the whole thing if that's the case
[09:23] otherwise, it would have fit just fine

Tor Karlsvalt [09:24] Alas, Roman is in decline unless supported by a strong RP policy or combat.

Bagheera Kristan [09:24] she was unhappy before Cleo, I know this because we talked, so you cannot hang this on Cleo's influence

Rosie Gray [09:24] Rosie Gray nods

Moonrise Azalee [09:24] Growth can be painful and awkward, but otherwise we risk being stagnant.... the theme as is, Roman... just isnt very attractive to the general population. There are ways that she could adjust. But sometimes giving up is easier.

Bagheera Kristan [09:24] so please don't
[09:24] true, I like the idea of a bigger harbor

Ranma Tardis [09:25] am sad

Rosie Gray [09:25] she might change her mind

Moonrise Azalee [09:25] landscape is a huge part of wanting to spend time in a fantasy life, i look at places like Chilbo, a huge community once... and its gone to peices
[09:26] they had to sell of land, it got choppy, roads broken... and now its just like the rest of mainland for the most part.

Tor Karlsvalt [09:26] Chilbo is sad

Moonrise Azalee [09:26] it was amazing once

Shep Titian [09:26] I'm talking to her

Bagheera Kristan [09:26] I've been exploring successful private communities... I think we could learn a lot from places like the Steampunks of New Babbage - 10 thriving sims

Rosie Gray [09:26] behaving like a spoilt teenager doesn't anything

Bagheera Kristan [09:26] the Blake Sea Battles, who just added 5 sims

Rosie Gray [09:26] aren't they all rp though, Bags?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:27] Oh btw, I have been asked to respond to an effort started to pull together community based sims.

Bagheera Kristan [09:27] ohyes, I guess maybe that's it

Moonrise Azalee [09:27] as times change, public and social interests change and i really feel that rome is past its time. unless, .like said, its RP. Tuscany offers a richer beauty i think

Tor Karlsvalt [09:27] One question is to suggest other community members who can be contacted.

Rosie Gray [09:27] we can have renaissance builds in Tuscany!

Moonrise Azalee [09:27] :D

Pip Torok [09:27] yes ... think of Renaissance art !!

Tor Karlsvalt [09:27] I thought of the RA, SC and guild members. Also people running for office this term.
[09:28] I will send you all a copy of my responce.
[09:28] response.

Moonrise Azalee [09:28] What exactly is it Tor?

Bagheera Kristan [09:28] true - I guess where I got stuck was outright stating "post-roman" since even today, you can see Roman era buildings

Tor Karlsvalt [09:28] Well it seems to be an effort forming among some community bases sims.
[09:28] based

Moonrise Azalee [09:29] like to have joint events etc?

Rosie Gray [09:29] I was taking the post-Roman to mean that the Roman buildings would be old
[09:29] Rosie Gray shuts up now

Bagheera Kristan [09:29] ah

Tor Karlsvalt [09:29] sort of an inter communication effort.

Moonrise Azalee [09:29] Moonrise Azalee grins
[09:29] ahh yes that makes sense

Tor Karlsvalt [09:29] Or at least promote eachother's events.

Rosie Gray [09:29] sounds interesting, Tor

Moonrise Azalee [09:29] indeed yes

Tor Karlsvalt [09:30] I think we can have some Roman builds. Look at the Pantheon in Rome.
[09:31] That build survives to this day as a functioning building.

Lilith Ivory [09:31] I think we agreed on this theme as it is a way citizens don´t have to change their homes

Rosie Gray [09:31] Rosie Gray nods

Pip Torok [09:31] has anyone given thought to giving LA a new Italian name?

Rosie Gray [09:31] we would have to pay to rename the sim

Lilith Ivory [09:31] changing the name of a Sim costs some money

Bagheera Kristan [09:31] don't you have to pay Linden

Tor Karlsvalt [09:31] Some people like the name.

Pip Torok [09:31] (or is that not possible?)

Bagheera Kristan [09:31] yes

Tor Karlsvalt [09:31] Nice place

Lilith Ivory [09:32] it´s possible but not cheap

Bagheera Kristan [09:32] have to be a compelling reason to spend the money

Shep Titian [09:32] OK folks .. order please

Pip Torok [09:32] well .. since i'm not bowled-over in the rush .. I'll forget I said that !! :-]

Rosie Gray [09:33] ?

Bagheera Kristan [09:33]

Shep Titian [09:33] Moving on
[09:33] No reports
[09:33] Tor anything from the exec?

Tor Karlsvalt [09:34] yes
[09:34] Thank you Madam LRA
[09:35] I would like to point out that hippo shows occupancy at 88 percent

Shep Titian [09:35] Thats wonderful

Tor Karlsvalt [09:36] Also, talking to several of our new people, I think a Tuscan theame would be welcomed. One might even be interested in ing to build the new sim.
[09:37] Done

Shep Titian [09:37] THank you Tor
[09:37] No announcements
[09:37] So next RA meeting

Lilith Ivory [09:38] Lilith Ivory looks around and is sad to see none of the new citizens

Rosie Gray [09:38] Rosie Gray nods at Lil and agrees

Shep Titian [09:39] A number have said Lil that they love the sims .. mountains etc .. and are'nt here for politics but community
[09:39] Which is cool in my book

Moonrise Azalee [09:39] Moonrise Azalee notes that there are many anti-politic sorts these days

Rosie Gray [09:39]

Tor Karlsvalt [09:39] Well one may follow the other in time.

Moonrise Azalee [09:39] they come here to be stress free :D

Shep Titian [09:40] Yes Tor you're right
[09:40] But they are happy to be here

Tor Karlsvalt [09:40] I have to say the shops on the quay were very nice.

Lilith Ivory [09:40] Lilith Ivory is not a very political person too

Shep Titian [09:41] Ok .. date

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] Moonrise Azalee grins

Shep Titian [09:41] Is two weeks ok
[09:41] or three .. getting close to the end

Ranma Tardis [09:41] nods

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] im good for two

Tor Karlsvalt [09:41] Yay!

Moonrise Azalee [09:41] or three, or whatever

Shep Titian [09:41] ok two weeks

Ranma Tardis [09:42] me too

Shep Titian [09:42] Sat 9th Nov at 8am

Tor Karlsvalt [09:42] Tor Karlsvalt needs to find someone to organize debates.

Moonrise Azalee [09:42]

Ranma Tardis [09:42]

Shep Titian [09:42] I propose we adjourn

Moonrise Azalee [09:42] second

Ranma Tardis [09:42] second
[09:43] aye

Moonrise Azalee [09:43] aye

Shep Titian [09:43] aye
[09:43] Finis

Usually I Dislike a Cloud Sky
Tonight I Realize That a Cloud Sky
Makes Me Appreciate the Light of the Moon
- impromptu poem composed by Gen'i
as depicted in Yoshitoshi's 100 Aspects of the Moon
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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Victor1 »

Just one quick note about New Babbage.

It's not RP "Enforced". In other words its not 100% RP. You can RP if ya want, or not. To be honest the vast bulk of the population (over 90%) dont RP at all. The reason New Babbage has been so successful while Caledon has been losing sims? Well, thats a multi teir answer which i wont get into.

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Questions:

What is the financial requirement and plan of the rebuild of Locus and can we please see the financial projections with the final new plan? What occupancy rate will be the Break Even point ?

Can the number of parcels in the presented and voted for plan cover the cost of the sim each month to CDS?

How will you keep the parcels on the land from being more closely set together than they are now, while keeping the bay in tact?

Will the new LA be more expensive than other sims in CDS?

What will Cost of the rebuild be?
Lost tier for locked land, buy outs, and expenses?

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by alexia »

Sorry to read some of you think i'm "under influence" of Cleo. Who is able to read can clearly see my point of view up in RA transcript. Few more points to point out:

Rosie Gray [09:22] I don't understand why she is being like that since we said her land would be left alone

In the approoved LA plan which kindly “preserves” The Time Machine LANDMARK point, and which involved “ immediate” action by the Chanc, i should have “rotated” my store 90° and move some 900 prims. And adapt it to the new so called "theme". Not my main reason to leave, tho.

Rosie Gray [09:23] well then she needs to have her own sim, and pay for the whole thing if that's the case

Just to let you know, Rosie, a half homestead is cheaper compared to what i payed in LA - and you get more prims.

Rosie Gray [09:26] behaving like a spoilt teenager doesn't anything

You could have spared me this, Rosie. it's FIVE years your "spoilt teenager" lived there. Emotions -and brain- count more than prims and mesh you know.

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by FernLeissa »

I assume that the courtesy of an LM is simply an imperious way of saying we’re invoking eminent domain. That is something the Chancellor can do:

“The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power… (e) subject to the payment of adequate compensation to any citizen or citizens thereby affected, reclaim or swap any land held by any citizen of CDS for the purposes of discharging any function of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly, provided always that no citizen of CDS shall not be caused to have no holding in Neufriestadt at all thereby

” [CDS Constitution. Section 2 – Powers of the Chancellor]

So yeah, ok. No legal argument for not behaving this way.

What I don’t understand is why, as a community, we are acting so badly towards a CDS citizen who has lived among us in Locus Amoenus for five years. How did she become the enemy? Alexia made LA her home, she had her main shop there and she published Ancient Life from her office in the clouds. She brought life to that corner of the sim. It is her tier payments that helped build the CDS financial reserve that we now find to be our moral duty not to squander. What was so egregious, so difficult about at least seriously and respectfully considering her input on LA redevelopment? Why was it so impossible to provide some corner for ancient Rome in a new, redeveloped, re-themed Locus Amoenus?

And yes Alexia did provide input. We have been on this topic for a number of years and she has been in on any number of the discussions. She contributed an LA concept map for the CDS community to consider. She recruited Lef Leven to help with planning a LA layout with a larger harbor, widened river, and smaller plots. So, to talk as if Alexia was afk until the last moments of this LA re-development discussion is either a sign of serious ignorance or a deliberate obfuscation of the facts.

Fern

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Sudane Erato »

FernLeissa wrote:

What I don’t understand is why, as a community, we are acting so badly towards a CDS citizen who has lived among us in Locus Amoenus for five years.

Fern, this is not a fair statement. LA has been an economic basket case... over its existence it has been mostly empty, until the recent effort to renovate the sim and make it more of appeal to the market. Alexia herself complained, rightfully, that LA was empty, and how difficult it was for her to sustain her business in a sim that was empty. I personally supported her in this, and the effort to redevelop the sim was, and is, to return it to economic viability. This would benefit Alexia and the CDS.

In fact, we bent over backward to assure Alexia that her enterprise would remain intact throughout the renovation, because, it WAS so valuable. It was the single sustaining example of consistent commerce that the CDS has, and it was certainly my intent to make sure that this important example was preserved. CONTRARY to what Alexis says, her store would have been consistent with the new theme. I have no idea where she was told that she would have to "rotate the store 90 degrees and move 900 prims"... that was certainly on no plan that I ever saw. But even if she did, the MAJOR fact is that the place of the Time Machine in the new plan was preserved. Yes. that would be a lot of work if that shift was needed, but it would NOT have been a refutation of her presence there, as she seemed to have developed an impression of.

I'm sorry... but somehow Alexia developed the entirely unwarranted impression that she was not wanted, probably by talking to others who created in her this mistaken impression. It was certainly a shock to me that she left, and personally a smack in the face for all the efforts I've made over the years to advocate the importance of commerce in the CDS. Alexia knows that very well. You do the efforts we've made to improve the desirability of LA an injustice to say that we treated Alexia and her store poorly... on the contrary... what she had created we considered with the highest respect.

Sudane........................

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Victor1 »

Well... that answers that then.

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Rosie Gray »

alexia wrote:

Sorry to read some of you think i'm "under influence" of Cleo. Who is able to read can clearly see my point of view up in RA transcript. Few more points to point out:

Rosie Gray [09:22] I don't understand why she is being like that since we said her land would be left alone

alexia wrote:

In the approoved LA plan which kindly “preserves” The Time Machine LANDMARK point, and which involved “ immediate” action by the Chanc, i should have “rotated” my store 90° and move some 900 prims. And adapt it to the new so called "theme". Not my main reason to leave, tho.

Rosie Gray
[08:21] with this plan, we can leave the Time Machine where it is

While I think that in the spirit of cooperation to make the sim landscape nicer, it would have been better if you, Alexia, would have agreed to rotate your store 90°. I haven't heard anyone say that it would be demanded that you do so. If you had expressed your concern about this we could have talked about it. Perhaps you could have taken the initiative to rework your building so that it would blend with the new sim theme a little more... but nobody was going to make you, since it would still technically fit the theme. And, I do know what picking up 900 prims and rotating it would be like. Most builders of very large constructions have done this on occasion. It isn't so hard, but it does take some effort.

Rosie Gray [09:23] well then she needs to have her own sim, and pay for the whole thing if that's the case

alexia wrote:

Just to let you know, Rosie, a half homestead is cheaper compared to what i payed in LA - and you get more prims.

I absolutely did (and do) value your time and money paid in tier over the years Alexia; however that does not give you the right to stand in the way of the process to renew the sim. Your inflexibility was what I was referring to.

Rosie Gray [09:26] behaving like a spoilt teenager doesn't anything

alexia wrote:

You could have spared me this, Rosie. it's FIVE years your "spoilt teenager" lived there. Emotions -and brain- count more than prims and mesh you know.

Sorry you didn't like to see that Alexia, but you left in the manner that made me say this. I was actually shocked to see that you had really picked up the Time Machine and left as you did. That was so unnecessary.

"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by FernLeissa »

Sudane,

Yes, throughout its history LA has often been littered with vacant lots. And yes, Alexia did complain that this situation did nothing to help her sustain her business at the Time Machine. She was open to the idea of LA redevelopment as a possible way to solve this problem and attempted to initiate and participate in discussions around this idea. She was however looking to redevelop LA while keeping a roman theme; that’s quite clear to me. And when she sought to discuss redevelopment around those lines, she was just ignored. Perhaps a roman theme really isn’t sustainable, but it wasn’t debated in any sort of serious way with the only remaining, long-time resident of LA ; someone who moved to LA and stayed there for five years because the theme was roman.

I would guess that one of the reasons Alexia thinks her store would not have been consistent with the new theme is the phrase “post-roman” in the LA theme description. Another might have been the LRA suggesting that Alexia could simply retexture the exterior of The Time Machine to something more appropriate.

So, I’m sorry but I cannot agree that Alexia has been treated with respect, and in fact, as recently as the last RA meeting she was treated quite rudely. I want to repeat that it is not Alexia that is the problem. Finding a solution to the low LA occupancy rate is the problem; finding it in a way that also fairly represents the wishes of those citizens that have lived in LA.

Fern

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Alexia knows Ceasar and I want her to stay in CDS, and many many other citizens as well. Perhaps CDS can offer an Olive Branch to Alexia and convince her to stay.

I suggest the right thing to do is offer Alexia First Right of Refusal for her old property after the LA redesign is completed, keep the parcel lines there as they were for the remaining time of her stay in LA. Also allow her to keep her shop as it was exactly. CDS can always make it so that the parcel is recut if she ever leaves on her own. Why would you change a parcel cut of a happy customer ?

The redesign can surely be implemented in steps by redoing the parts that were the problem and not throwing out things that worked.

When we see a completed and feasible plan with the accurate number of parcels cut , to make tier, and roads to CN kept in tact. .. placed on a drawing we can all look at and see, maybe people will calm down, The plan that was approved, was not a plan at all, but a vague concept drawing of an idea. Nice as it is ... There is a lot more work to do before there is and actual plan even on the table.

SAD
I am saddened to see Fern's parcels in Colonia Nova for sale as well. I hope that doesn't mean that to redesign LA we lose even more valuable productive and long term citizens. Isn't that in and of itself counter to the stated goal of the redesign?

CLEO

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by alexia »

It sounds like I'm ungrateful.

I am possibly analphabet, but i read "post-Roman to the end of the 19th century (or pre-WWI)" - which is a surrealistic non-theme like non-birthdays in Alice in Wonderland.
I am possibly blind, but i can see what maps say about my shop position.
I am possibly voiceless, but i repeat: my store is not the main problem, as I totally disgree on the “priority” of redesigning LA (which was recovering comparing to last year's desert) - Cds is free to prefer a new nice "tuscan" hi tech desert. I totally disagree with the methods that have been used, and I have good reasons to believe LA redesign is a weak plan. I thank Fern reminding i was not afk at all about LA plans, as so many now love to say i was sleeping during the meetings and woke up at the last minute, which is a big lie.
I am possibly paranoic but i had the strong impression that nobody listened, nobody answered. Perhaps i had to shout louder.

I'm not intentioned to get "Olive Branches", thank you Cleo, but your kind proposal will for sure just open new misunderstandings.
I'm not in war with anybody, I just disagree and leave. And I am very sorry Fern leaves as well.

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Shep »

I am possibly paranoic but i had the strong impression that nobody listened, nobody answered. Perhaps i had to shout louder.

Alexia ... that is unfair after the care I took of you ... you know the sim was under the threat of closure .. I always said we should look after you and it is doubtful that you would even have to move Time Machine an inch ... but you chose to listen to others bent on creating dissent ... I wish you would change your mind and come back ... but it's entirely your decision.. wishing you all the best for the future .. with us or elsewhere .. Shep

I am not a sheep ... I am the Shepherdess .. An it harm none .. so mote it be ..
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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by alexia »

Please please I kindly ask to stop with this tale that i was under "bad influence" of others. I get bored beein treated as a child, and this doesnt help understanding each other. We update to when you'll be ready with your new LA marvels.

Ranma Tardis

Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Ranma Tardis »

alexia wrote:

Please please I kindly ask to stop with this tale that i was under "bad influence" of others. I get bored being treated as a child, and this doesn’t help understanding each other. We update to when you'll be ready with your new LA marvels.

I worked really hard to keep Time Machine in its current position. Add to that Cleo’s new shop. Thought I had brokered a deal and was disappointed when you packed up. Rosie as the Guildmaster has no right to dictate policy in CDS. While they can present plans they are NOT part of the government. I still hope Time Machine can return to its previous position and for Cleo’s shop to remain in its location. We are having an election and the good citizens can vote on your view of a dominating government or my view of a government that represents its citizens.

Oh btw many communities in a state or country do not "carry their weight". We do not abandon them so why should we do this with sims? This is about community and not "it is not my sim". United we stand and divided we fall. Let’s stand tougher as a community; Alexia has been the rock of LA and perhaps the entire CDS. I stand with her and citizens can show their approval or disapproval at the ballet box.

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Re: 26 Oct 2013 RA Meeting Transcript

Post by Rosie Gray »

Ranma Tardis wrote:

I worked really hard to keep Time Machine in its current position. Add to that Cleo’s new shop. Thought I had brokered a deal and was disappointed when you packed up. Rosie as the Guildmaster has no right to dictate policy in CDS. While they can present plans they are NOT part of the government. I still hope Time Machine can return to its previous position and for Cleo’s shop to remain in its location. We are having an election and the good citizens can vote on your view of a dominating government or my view of a government that represents its citizens.

Ranma, I have NEVER tried to dictate policy. ALL I have done is try to carry out the request of the RA, after discussions with the guild members. AT NO TIME did I say that the Time Machine should have to move. Quite the contrary; in presenting the concept plan to RA I said SPECIFICALLY that the Time Machine WOULD NOT HAVE TO MOVE according to this plan. Please check your facts before accusing me.

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