Transcript RA Meeting August 13, 2022

[Jerry McNally]

[2022/08/13 12:05] Almut Brunswick: Dear fellow citizens of the CDS (represented by Indigo and Lilith), honorable member of the SC (Lilith once again) and of course dear RA members! Welcome to our fourth RA meeting of this 37th term. Hereby I call this meeting to order.
[2022/08/13 12:06] Almut Brunswick: The agenda is in the cube
[2022/08/13 12:06] Rosie Gray: thank you Almut
[2022/08/13 12:06] Almut Brunswick: 1 Administrative Business
1.1 Approval of the Agenda
[2022/08/13 12:07] Almut Brunswick: (you know my talent to mess up numbering, so please read it carefully^^)
[2022/08/13 12:07] Jerry McNally: Looks ok to me this time...
[2022/08/13 12:07] Almut Brunswick: phew
[2022/08/13 12:07] Almut Brunswick: Nothing left out?
[2022/08/13 12:07] Almut Brunswick: LUC is in again, too ^^
[2022/08/13 12:08] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2022/08/13 12:08] Jerry McNally: I move to approve the agenda as presented
[2022/08/13 12:08] Lilith Ivory: I had to reschedule the LUC meeting to next weekend so there wont be anything to report
[2022/08/13 12:08] Rosie Gray: second
[2022/08/13 12:08] Almut Brunswick: No further need to discuss? Then let's vote
[2022/08/13 12:08] Agatha Macbeth: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:09] Jerry McNally: aye
[2022/08/13 12:09] Brian Livingston: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:09] Rosie Gray: aye
[2022/08/13 12:09] Almut Brunswick: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:09] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2022/08/13 12:09] Almut Brunswick: 1.2 Review and approval of the Minutes of the Third RA Meeting on July 24, 2022 https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=10045
[2022/08/13 12:09] Almut Brunswick: (special thanks to our brave and accurate Archivist again)
[2022/08/13 12:09] Jerry McNally: you're welcome
[2022/08/13 12:10] Rosie Gray: motion to approve the Minutes as presented
[2022/08/13 12:10] Brian Livingston: Second
[2022/08/13 12:11] Almut Brunswick: No further need to discuss? Then let's vote
[2022/08/13 12:11] Agatha Macbeth: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:11] Brian Livingston: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:11] Jerry McNally: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:11] Rosie Gray: aye
[2022/08/13 12:11] Almut Brunswick: Aye
[2022/08/13 12:11] Almut Brunswick: Thank you!
[2022/08/13 12:12] Almut Brunswick: Since Tor is not (yet) here, let's skip that top for now and continue with 3 Land-Use Commission Report (Agatha)
[2022/08/13 12:12] Almut Brunswick: Agatha, the stage is yours
[2022/08/13 12:12] Agatha Macbeth: Thank you LRA. The LUC meeting scheduled for today had to be cancelled due to Lilith's RL schedule, however I can make a few brief points about things in CDS Listings currently under review, if you wish? Or would you prefer to move on?
[2022/08/13 12:12] Almut Brunswick: Sure, go ahead please.
[2022/08/13 12:12] Agatha Macbeth: Ok
[2022/08/13 12:13] Agatha Macbeth: 1) Markplatz, Centre of the historic city of Neufreistadt, CDS, Neufreistadt: The current given landmark drops people in the wall: a new LM is being considered.
[2022/08/13 12:13] Almut Brunswick: ah, therefore all these trapped VWEC teachers
[2022/08/13 12:13] Agatha Macbeth:
[2022/08/13 12:13] Agatha Macbeth: 2) Western Highway: May be renamed - suggestion is Lookfar. Description: Roam the CDS forest heights under a wide sky around the medieval tower, take a free trail ride in the winding paths over the bridge from the old town. Have a picnic in the shade under really old rocks, or just enjoy the calm in the gazebo.
[2022/08/13 12:14] Agatha Macbeth: 3) Friedsee - common lands & Friedsee Airfield: Current naming and description being reviewed. Suggested name for Friedsee is Mirrormere.
[2022/08/13 12:14] Agatha Macbeth: 4) Alpine meadow is not currently listed - suggested name is Falling Water. Description: Enjoy the quietness of Alpine Meadow – trek, ski or ride along the winding paths and bridges, water is never far away. Or bring your friends to a talk by the fire and a game of shuffleboard at Pip Torok’s Community Center just by.
[2022/08/13 12:14] Agatha Macbeth: 5) Monastery Common: May be renamed to Monastery Grounds. Description: Ancient memory holds that when consciousness first dawned, men and women were equally the two sides of human-ness. In reverence and longing for that balance long since lost, this Monastery is built as a place of remembrance for what may yet again return.
[2022/08/13 12:15] Agatha Macbeth: 6) Forum - the shopping district of Colonia Nova: May be renamed to Centro Storico, Colonia Nova. Description: This city has been here for many centuries. The past is still around, come and find it out.
[2022/08/13 12:15] Agatha Macbeth: 7) Via Luna, public lands and roadways, Colonia Nova: Description may be changed to "A quiet country road by the river, across the historic city… just the place for a horse ride!"
[2022/08/13 12:15] Rosie Gray: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:15] Agatha Macbeth: /me listens
[2022/08/13 12:15] Brian Livingston: /me also raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:16] Almut Brunswick: Rosie please, though Agatha was not yet done.
[2022/08/13 12:16] Rosie Gray: I will wait until Agatha is done!
[2022/08/13 12:16] Agatha Macbeth: Only one more point...
[2022/08/13 12:16] Agatha Macbeth: LA Beach party, CDS, a sandy beach for parties!, Locus Amoenus: Description may be changed to "Locus Amoenus is inspired by and modeled after rural Tuscany with a large area of surrounding countryside. Find rural, timeless, pre-modern Tuscany buildings and a public beach for parties." When we teleport through SEARCH/ REGION: LOCUS AMOENUS, we fall under water at Locus Amoenus, CDS Common Lands. Which needs a change to not fall under water. Also to consider changing this name to Locus Amoenus - The Pleasant Place (or The Nice Place).
[2022/08/13 12:16] Agatha Macbeth: End of report.
[2022/08/13 12:17] Almut Brunswick: Thank you, Agatha. Rosie please, then Brian.
[2022/08/13 12:17] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2022/08/13 12:17] Rosie Gray: Agatha, are you saying that the LUC is suggesting to change the names of the sims? or those specific parcels?
[2022/08/13 12:17] Agatha Macbeth: The parcels in question
[2022/08/13 12:18] Agatha Macbeth: I believe
[2022/08/13 12:18] Rosie Gray: okay, interesting
[2022/08/13 12:18] Almut Brunswick: Hmm, Lilith, could you add something here?
[2022/08/13 12:18] Rosie Gray: some of these places have been specifically named
[2022/08/13 12:18] Brian Livingston: That was my question as well.
[2022/08/13 12:18] Lilith Ivory: ermmmm, to be honest I am rather clueless
[2022/08/13 12:18] Rosie Gray: like the LA Beach Party
[2022/08/13 12:18] Almut Brunswick: Oha
[2022/08/13 12:19] Almut Brunswick: (German for: Uh oh)
[2022/08/13 12:19] Lilith Ivory: we discussed changing the parcel names and descriptions of our paid classifieds but to my knowing nothing is final yet
[2022/08/13 12:19] Agatha Macbeth: The information comes from a document supplied by Moon, who sadly isn't here
[2022/08/13 12:19] Lilith Ivory: it was a spreadsheet we are working on
[2022/08/13 12:19] Agatha Macbeth: /me nods
[2022/08/13 12:19] Almut Brunswick: Ah I see
[2022/08/13 12:20] Almut Brunswick: Brian?
[2022/08/13 12:20] Rosie Gray: perhaps it's all a bit premature
[2022/08/13 12:20] Agatha Macbeth: It is a work in progress I think
[2022/08/13 12:20] Lilith Ivory: yes exactly
[2022/08/13 12:20] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2022/08/13 12:20] Brian Livingston: Rosie asked my question already - great minds, and all . I would note and ask that if the proposla -is- to change sim names, that we have a broader discussion. As an aside, I appreciate the efforts to update the landmarks (as someone who has TPd under the platz more than a few times.
[2022/08/13 12:21] Brian Livingston: Done
[2022/08/13 12:21] Agatha Macbeth:
[2022/08/13 12:21] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2022/08/13 12:21] Lilith Ivory: you should TP there again as my cabaret is coming along nicely
[2022/08/13 12:21] Brian Livingston: /me makes a mental note...
[2022/08/13 12:22] Almut Brunswick: Yes, I do agree, Brian. Changing the names, however, is a delicate task, and I personally would prefer not to erase all foreign-sounding names in favor of English names.
[2022/08/13 12:22] Brian Livingston: /me nods in agreement
[2022/08/13 12:22] Jerry McNally: /me likes the 'happy accident' nature of TPing around the place
[2022/08/13 12:22] Almut Brunswick: Ha! Lilith, I remember that there was a task for me as well, but that just as a sidenote.
[2022/08/13 12:23] Almut Brunswick: Jerry, we can build a subway there
[2022/08/13 12:23] Rosie Gray: the roads committee and signage that goes with it worked hard on a lot of those names
[2022/08/13 12:23] Rosie Gray: and they have meaning
[2022/08/13 12:23] Almut Brunswick: Yes, Rosie is right!
[2022/08/13 12:23] Lilith Ivory: we mainly want tpo change the names of parcels called "public land"
[2022/08/13 12:24] Agatha Macbeth: I'm sure the LUC will address these concerns in future meetings
[2022/08/13 12:24] Rosie Gray: that makes sense, Lilith
[2022/08/13 12:24] Almut Brunswick: Are there any further questions regarding the LUC?
[2022/08/13 12:24] Rosie Gray: no
[2022/08/13 12:24] Brian Livingston: /me shakes his head
[2022/08/13 12:24] Agatha Macbeth: Phew
[2022/08/13 12:24] Jerry McNally: No, but just to note for the minutes the existence of the SIM planning forum at https://forums.slcds.info/viewforum.php?f=8
[2022/08/13 12:25] Jerry McNally: Might be useful for institutional memory lapses
[2022/08/13 12:25] Almut Brunswick: Ok, if this is not the case, let's continue with our yet continuing work on the Constitution Review
[2022/08/13 12:25] Almut Brunswick: Thank you, Jerry. That prevents the LUC to invent the wheel again at some points
[2022/08/13 12:26] Almut Brunswick: 4 Old Business
4.1 Constitution Revision
To keep the time frame of the meeting, we should focus on the following two topics with a maximum length of 20 minutes each.
[2022/08/13 12:26] Almut Brunswick: 4.1.1 Revising Article III The Scientific Branch / The Philosophic Council
[2022/08/13 12:26] Almut Brunswick: 4.1.2 Revising or Deleting Article IV
[2022/08/13 12:26] Almut Brunswick: Let's start with 4.1.1. When we don't need the full time for them, I'm happy as well.
[2022/08/13 12:27] Almut Brunswick: The substantial work on this article is done, however, there are still some topics to be discussed: Should the term "The Philosophic Branch" persist or not? Is there a better description of the nature of the SC as a "self-selected meritocracy" which is not consensus amongst the RA members? Shall the SC be obliged to maintain minutes of meeting like the RA or not?
[2022/08/13 12:27] Almut Brunswick: You all know that the continuous discussion is in the Google doc
[2022/08/13 12:28] Almut Brunswick: nonetheless, I would know also Brian's and Agatha's opinions
[2022/08/13 12:28] Jerry McNally: For info, that's at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lQ2 ... sp=sharing
[2022/08/13 12:29] Almut Brunswick: The SC itself proposed to strike the name Philosophic Branch and to replace it consequently by Scientific Council
[2022/08/13 12:29] Almut Brunswick: Jerry proposes to keep "Philosophic Branch" in the text because it is parallel to the two other branches
[2022/08/13 12:30] Almut Brunswick: I myself regard it as false labeling though
[2022/08/13 12:31] Almut Brunswick: and would either follow the SCs original proposal or name it "Judicative Branch"
[2022/08/13 12:31] Almut Brunswick: What do you think?
[2022/08/13 12:31] Brian Livingston: In short, I tend to agree with Jerry.
[2022/08/13 12:31] Brian Livingston: Both from a place of keeping in line with the other branches as well as from a historic context
[2022/08/13 12:31] Almut Brunswick: Rosie? Agatha?
[2022/08/13 12:32] Brian Livingston: /me is done
[2022/08/13 12:32] Agatha Macbeth: I've always puzzled as to why the Scientific Council is so called?
[2022/08/13 12:32] Rosie Gray: well, personally I think neither Scientific Council, nor Philosophic Branch reflects what they actually are
[2022/08/13 12:32] Agatha Macbeth: /me nods
[2022/08/13 12:32] Almut Brunswick:
[2022/08/13 12:32] Almut Brunswick: I do agree
[2022/08/13 12:32] Rosie Gray: if it's a Judicial Branch, then why isn't it called that?
[2022/08/13 12:32] Almut Brunswick: Indeed!
[2022/08/13 12:32] Agatha Macbeth: Exactly
[2022/08/13 12:33] Almut Brunswick: Nothing against history, but I think nostalgia is misplaced here
[2022/08/13 12:33] Rosie Gray: on the other hand, as someone pointed out... it could be viewed as one of the idiosyncrasies of the CDS
[2022/08/13 12:33] Jerry McNally: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:33] Almut Brunswick: Jerry
[2022/08/13 12:34] Jerry McNally: Thanks. Going back to that earlier point about names and institutional memory loss, I found a forum link from 2004 where the Philosophic Branch is discussed https://forums-archive.secondlife.com/1 ... 048/1.html
[2022/08/13 12:34] Jerry McNally: I don't like the idea of losing history without a solid reason.
[2022/08/13 12:34] Jerry McNally: Done.
[2022/08/13 12:34] Brian Livingston: Additionally, there was discussion from around 2008-2010ish around a Judicial branch.
[2022/08/13 12:35] Brian Livingston: whispers: Agreed, Jerry. It may be nostalgia, but I also would say it is historically important.
[2022/08/13 12:35] Brian Livingston: Done
[2022/08/13 12:35] Brian Livingston: Whoops - didn'
[2022/08/13 12:35] Jerry McNally: /me raises his hand again
[2022/08/13 12:35] Brian Livingston: t mean to whisper. Really doen now
[2022/08/13 12:35] Almut Brunswick: the IS a solid reason: This naming is confusing. And since 2003, a lot has happened and all branches have sharpened their profiles.
[2022/08/13 12:35] Lilith Ivory: /me raises hand
[2022/08/13 12:36] Almut Brunswick: Lilith plase
[2022/08/13 12:36] Almut Brunswick: please*
[2022/08/13 12:37] Lilith Ivory: while I personally dont really care how tis branch is named I think it is a good idea to leave Scientific Council as people are familiar with this term and changing this name might add confusion to our citizens
[2022/08/13 12:37] Lilith Ivory: done
[2022/08/13 12:37] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2022/08/13 12:37] Jerry McNally: /me looks at his raised hand
[2022/08/13 12:37] Almut Brunswick: Jerry again
[2022/08/13 12:38] Jerry McNally: Thanks. Just to reiterate that I liked the parallels with the other articles - Article I: The Representative Branch, Section 1: The Representative Assembly. Article II: The Executive Branch, Section 1: The Chancellor. Article III: The Philosophic Branch, Section 1: The Scientific Council. Done.
[2022/08/13 12:38] Rosie Gray: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:38] Almut Brunswick: Rosie
[2022/08/13 12:39] Rosie Gray: I personally don't really care if we change the name at all, but I do think that the name is confusing for new people
[2022/08/13 12:39] Rosie Gray: when I was first here, I remember wondering what scientific experiments this group did
[2022/08/13 12:39] Brian Livingston: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:39] Rosie Gray: or if they held philosophy classes!
[2022/08/13 12:39] Agatha Macbeth: /me nods
[2022/08/13 12:39] Lilith Ivory: /me giggles
[2022/08/13 12:39] Almut Brunswick: I can second that, since I was a new citizen not too far ago. Brian please.
[2022/08/13 12:40] Jerry McNally: /me thinks everything about the CDS is confusing at the start
[2022/08/13 12:40] Rosie Gray: so, the idea of changing it to a meaningful name really isn't that strange
[2022/08/13 12:40] Rosie Gray: well you are right about that, Jerry, lol, but isn't that what we are aiming to fix?
[2022/08/13 12:40] Rosie Gray: done
[2022/08/13 12:41] Jerry McNally: The Guide for New Citizens helps with that, or should. Eg, this is the term, this is the description etc
[2022/08/13 12:41] Brian Livingston: I agree - the name of the Scientific Council can be confusing, no question. I would argue, however, that the Philosophic Branch title is fairly accurate in such that they are ensuring that our actions are in line with the overarching philosophy
[2022/08/13 12:41] Almut Brunswick: I want to remind our two gentlemen that we have to refurbish a Constitution for the future, not to curate a museum. Since the early days of the CDS; things have changed, so we need to adapt things when it turns out as necessary.
[2022/08/13 12:42] Jerry McNally: Has the role of the SC changed?
[2022/08/13 12:42] Rosie Gray: I see your point about the PHilosphic Branch, Brian
[2022/08/13 12:42] Almut Brunswick: The role of the SC not, but it has never been a Philosophic Branch.
[2022/08/13 12:43] Almut Brunswick: I agree with your aspect to label the SC according to the two other branches, but then please with a more meaningful name.
[2022/08/13 12:43] Almut Brunswick: I don't see any historical relevance to confuse people in the future as well.
[2022/08/13 12:44] Jerry McNally: In the way someone took care with parcel names, which we want to protect presumably someone choose to call it the Philosophic Branch, and not the Judiciary
[2022/08/13 12:44] Almut Brunswick: That must be not right anymore, Jerry
[2022/08/13 12:44] Agatha Macbeth: Q
[2022/08/13 12:45] Brian Livingston: They are two different functions, and while it is somewhat semantics, I would argue the function is philosophic as opposed to judicial.
[2022/08/13 12:45] Rosie Gray: not sure I agree with that
[2022/08/13 12:45] Agatha Macbeth: How long ago were these names applied?
[2022/08/13 12:45] Rosie Gray: since 2004, Agatha
[2022/08/13 12:45] Almut Brunswick: They are from the early days of the CDS
[2022/08/13 12:45] Agatha Macbeth: Wow
[2022/08/13 12:46] Agatha Macbeth: I'm presuming much has changed since then
[2022/08/13 12:46] Almut Brunswick: but now, we are working on a review, and I don't hesitate to change when it has proven as confusing over the years.
[2022/08/13 12:46] Almut Brunswick: Our time is almost over for this topic.
[2022/08/13 12:47] Rosie Gray: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:47] Almut Brunswick: Rosie please
[2022/08/13 12:47] Rosie Gray: just to say that we at some point just have to put this to a vote
[2022/08/13 12:47] Rosie Gray: if we all can't agree, then that's what it will come to
[2022/08/13 12:47] Rosie Gray: done
[2022/08/13 12:48] Almut Brunswick: Well, in preparation of the formal vote, we can leave our vote in the Google doc
[2022/08/13 12:48] Rosie Gray: yes
[2022/08/13 12:48] Almut Brunswick: And yes, I do agree with Rosie. We need to get finished it preferably soon.
[2022/08/13 12:49] Almut Brunswick: But when we stick on heritage and tradition whenever something is put into question, we can quit our work, shrug and waive it through. That is, however, not how I understad our task.
[2022/08/13 12:50] Almut Brunswick: Please forgive me when I get here slightly upset. We need to table it here and to continue the discussion in the doc.
[2022/08/13 12:50] Brian Livingston: /me nods
[2022/08/13 12:50] Rosie Gray: agreed, let's concentrate on it and get it done
[2022/08/13 12:50] Almut Brunswick: 4.1.2 Revising or Deleting Article IV
[2022/08/13 12:50] Almut Brunswick: (20 min)
[2022/08/13 12:51] Almut Brunswick: Following the debate during the last RA meeting, the consensus appeared to be that transferring the aims and principles of Factions to a law. Nonetheless, it should be discussed how to anchor such a future Faction law in the Constitution when the current Article IV will be stricken, and how to justify the existence, rights and obligation of other NGOs in general in the Constitution which is currently not yet the case.
[2022/08/13 12:51] Jerry McNally: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:52] Almut Brunswick: Let me add that I don't want to get into details pro and con the sense of reviving Factions. The focus is set only if we should treat NGOs including factions in the Constitution and Laws. - Jerry please.
[2022/08/13 12:53] Jerry McNally: Thanks. Just to say that, in case members have missed it, I've suggested adding in the paragraph from Delia and the SC into Article 6 Citizenship, point 8. Done.
[2022/08/13 12:54] Almut Brunswick: Thank you, Jerry.
[2022/08/13 12:54] Almut Brunswick: So does it mean we would completely strike Article IV?
[2022/08/13 12:55] Jerry McNally: Yes, move it to a Law and refer to the freedom to make a Faction in the Article about Citizenship.
[2022/08/13 12:55] Jerry McNally: That's just my suggestion.
[2022/08/13 12:56] Almut Brunswick: my net is loading slowly, sorry. I would like to read it.
[2022/08/13 12:56] Brian Livingston: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 12:57] Almut Brunswick: I don't see Article 6 right now.
[2022/08/13 12:57] Almut Brunswick: ah now
[2022/08/13 12:57] Almut Brunswick: Brian
[2022/08/13 12:57] Brian Livingston: In short, I can understand the rationale behind removing Section IV, given that factions are no longer a required component of political system. I've come around to that position However, I have concerns around the proposed amended Section IV language in how it attempts to govern non-governmental organizations. My comments are all in the google doc, so I won't rehash them here. In short, my view is that if we strike Article IV, strike it entirely.
[2022/08/13 12:57] Brian Livingston: /me is done
[2022/08/13 12:57] Jerry McNally: /me nods
[2022/08/13 12:58] Almut Brunswick: Thank you, Brian, and I totally disagree.
[2022/08/13 12:58] Almut Brunswick: The NGOs currently existing are somewhere in the "airless space"
[2022/08/13 12:59] Almut Brunswick: they play a role in the CDS' social and political life
[2022/08/13 12:59] Almut Brunswick: therefore, the Constitution should give them their place, define rights and obligations
[2022/08/13 13:00] Almut Brunswick: not in detail, but to give them a legal frame
[2022/08/13 13:00] Almut Brunswick: hence my draft to replace the current Article IV by a new one which gives the NGOs their legitimation. Done.
[2022/08/13 13:01] Jerry McNally: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 13:01] Brian Livingston: /me raises his hand for a counter, after Jerry
[2022/08/13 13:01] Almut Brunswick: Ok, then Brian first and then Jerry, if it makes sense
[2022/08/13 13:01] Jerry McNally: Sure
[2022/08/13 13:03] Brian Livingston: "NGO"s are self-organized groups of similarly interested individuals - how is it our role to govern their internal policies as contemplated in section 2? The main benefit (so far as I can see) to being an NGO is that you can petition to have a subforum on the privately-hosted CDS message board. Aside from that benefit, I don't really see the point. On the other hand, I do see section 2 as potentially raising concerns around government overreach in terms of freedom of assembly and speech
[2022/08/13 13:03] Brian Livingston: Done
[2022/08/13 13:04] Rosie Gray: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 13:04] Almut Brunswick: Jerry first, then Rosie
[2022/08/13 13:06] Jerry McNally: Thanks. Just to echo Brian's point, the N in NGO stands for "non" governmental. Also, the suggested replacement doesn't use the word Factions once, so is it just implied that they are included? Done.
[2022/08/13 13:06] Almut Brunswick: Rosie please
[2022/08/13 13:06] Rosie Gray: I agree with Brian on this
[2022/08/13 13:06] Almut Brunswick: Agatha?
[2022/08/13 13:07] Rosie Gray: I don't think it's necessary to have anything about NGOs in the constitution, but if we do, then I think that nothing else needs to be said about it other than that they are allowed
[2022/08/13 13:07] Rosie Gray: done
[2022/08/13 13:07] Agatha Macbeth: I'm not really sure about it
[2022/08/13 13:07] Agatha Macbeth: Did the faction thing not only arise because Gwyneth needed to de-archive something?
[2022/08/13 13:08] Lilith Ivory: (it was Lilith who got the idea of reactiviting the social demorcrat faction)
[2022/08/13 13:08] Agatha Macbeth: Ok, thanks
[2022/08/13 13:09] Agatha Macbeth: Well as I said, I'm not really sure
[2022/08/13 13:09] Lilith Ivory: for what its worth I have no problem if Article IV gets removed from the constitution
[2022/08/13 13:10] Almut Brunswick: hmm ok. - Well, I can agree with striking Article IV entirely and replaced by Delia's thought put in VI (8) while the Faction details will go into a law
[2022/08/13 13:12] Almut Brunswick: So we can at least agree on this here, though I don't qute see that "government overreach" when a Constitution urges NGO to respect the democratic order.
[2022/08/13 13:13] Almut Brunswick: Germany has a different tradition here, so we are not that liberal here because of our history. Hence my proposal I made.
[2022/08/13 13:13] Almut Brunswick: But like I said, I can agree on what you have proposed. - Any further statements here?
[2022/08/13 13:14] Jerry McNally: Not from me
[2022/08/13 13:14] Almut Brunswick: If not, we could move on.
[2022/08/13 13:14] Rosie Gray: I see where you are coming from Almut
[2022/08/13 13:14] Rosie Gray: but still I don't think we need it for here ㋡
[2022/08/13 13:14] Brian Livingston: None; I think we've landed on a compromise
[2022/08/13 13:15] Agatha Macbeth: I'm okay to move on
[2022/08/13 13:15] Almut Brunswick: In brief: I don't want to see a totalitarian movement raising here in the CDS and hiding behind the liberal constitution:D
[2022/08/13 13:15] Almut Brunswick: Good
[2022/08/13 13:15] Almut Brunswick: 5 Citizen Concerns
[2022/08/13 13:16] Almut Brunswick: Are there any?
[2022/08/13 13:16] Lilith Ivory: no concerns here since Tor posted an explanation aout the rollback
[2022/08/13 13:16] Almut Brunswick: Ah yes!
[2022/08/13 13:17] Almut Brunswick: Well, it is in the Forum. He is not here today, so in worst case, let's table throwing hard objects against him
[2022/08/13 13:17] Almut Brunswick: Ok, then let's move to 6 RA Member Concerns
[2022/08/13 13:18] Rosie Gray: /me raises a hand
[2022/08/13 13:18] Almut Brunswick: Rosie please
[2022/08/13 13:18] Rosie Gray: not a concern so much as a comment and compliment
[2022/08/13 13:18] Jerry McNally: /me raises a hand too
[2022/08/13 13:19] Almut Brunswick: /me hides under the chair
[2022/08/13 13:19] Rosie Gray: to Jerry for his work on the website, and especially the photos he's been putting in the Flickr plugin
[2022/08/13 13:19] Rosie Gray: very nice
[2022/08/13 13:19] Rosie Gray: done
[2022/08/13 13:19] Almut Brunswick: Yes, very nice work, Jerry!
[2022/08/13 13:19] Almut Brunswick: Jerry?
[2022/08/13 13:19] Agatha Macbeth: Is there a link for that
[2022/08/13 13:19] Agatha Macbeth: ?
[2022/08/13 13:20] Jerry McNally: Thanks Rosie. And yes I'll get the link in a tick.
[2022/08/13 13:20] Rosie Gray: https://cdsdemocracy.org/
[2022/08/13 13:20] Agatha Macbeth: Thanks
[2022/08/13 13:20] Rosie Gray: it's just on the home page
[2022/08/13 13:21] Jerry McNally: Just a practical one about the Constitution Google Doc. What's the next step? If everyone checks they've added a yay, nay or abstain on each proposal, then we can - what? Would a summary be helpful?
[2022/08/13 13:21] Jerry McNally: (That Flickr link https://flickr.com/groups/_cds/ )
[2022/08/13 13:21] Almut Brunswick: When everybody has left his or her informal vote there, then I propose to tidy up the draft, so that we can formally vote about it
[2022/08/13 13:22] Almut Brunswick: And please, gentlemen, use your creativity and don't insist on history when we need a good compromise. Let's get finished the draft till next RA meeting.
[2022/08/13 13:23] Almut Brunswick: When there is something objected, then try to grab you a heart how to fix it.
[2022/08/13 13:23] Almut Brunswick: (that is Almut's RA concern here)
[2022/08/13 13:24] Jerry McNally: Noted
[2022/08/13 13:24] Almut Brunswick: We have seen that we can agree on striking Article IV
[2022/08/13 13:24] Almut Brunswick: and the SC article is substantially done
[2022/08/13 13:25] Almut Brunswick: there are just some few little stones in the way. Try to understand the other arguments as well, even when you partly disagree. (Like I do with Art. IV, too, but I see and value your points, too)
[2022/08/13 13:26] Almut Brunswick: May we close that topic and move on?
[2022/08/13 13:26] Jerry McNally: Fine by me
[2022/08/13 13:26] Almut Brunswick: 7 Announcements:
Calendar: https://cdsdemocracy.org/
[2022/08/13 13:27] Almut Brunswick: 8 Next RA meeting (to be discussed)
Proposal: August 27, 2022, 12 PM SLT
[2022/08/13 13:27] Rosie Gray: works for me
[2022/08/13 13:28] Almut Brunswick: Brian, Agatha, Jerry?
[2022/08/13 13:28] Jerry McNally: Yep, same here
[2022/08/13 13:28] Agatha Macbeth: Yes
[2022/08/13 13:28] Agatha Macbeth: (In a time warp there)
[2022/08/13 13:28] Almut Brunswick: When we really will be there to vote, a full complement would be awesome
[2022/08/13 13:29] Brian Livingston: Let me have 24 hours to confirm; there is a chance I might be on a transcon flight, but more likely the week after
[2022/08/13 13:29] Almut Brunswick: Yes, ok, then just let us know via e-mail
[2022/08/13 13:29] Brian Livingston: Will do.
[2022/08/13 13:29] Almut Brunswick: thank you
[2022/08/13 13:30] Agatha Macbeth: That date is alright with me
[2022/08/13 13:30] Almut Brunswick: I see a big smile on Jerry's lips because the end of the torture comes into sight
[2022/08/13 13:30] Rosie Gray: hehe
[2022/08/13 13:30] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2022/08/13 13:30] Jerry McNally: and the minute-writing begins...
[2022/08/13 13:30] Agatha Macbeth: He might enjoy it :p
[2022/08/13 13:31] Almut Brunswick: oh, you can then continue with the new Factions Act
[2022/08/13 13:31] Rosie Gray: haha
[2022/08/13 13:31] Jerry McNally: yes haha
[2022/08/13 13:31] Lilith Ivory: Jerry's google doc has become my fav novel this summer
[2022/08/13 13:31] Almut Brunswick: Agatha, there are always legal texts for Jerry
[2022/08/13 13:31] Agatha Macbeth: So it seems...
[2022/08/13 13:32] Jerry McNally: haha Lilith, non-linear interactive fiction reminds me of a degree I once did
[2022/08/13 13:32] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2022/08/13 13:32] Almut Brunswick: Whoever has not yet added their "mustard" and informal votes to the draft, let's do it till the Thursday before the next meeting. Does it make sense, Jerry?
[2022/08/13 13:32] Rosie Gray: there's a degree in non-linear interactive fiction!
[2022/08/13 13:32] Almut Brunswick: Are two days enough to clean up the draft?
[2022/08/13 13:32] Rosie Gray: /me laughs
[2022/08/13 13:33] Almut Brunswick: Hehe, Rosie. "The Diaries of Bureaucracy" ^^
[2022/08/13 13:34] Jerry McNally: no problem Almut
[2022/08/13 13:34] Almut Brunswick: Perfect, then we have a plan.
[2022/08/13 13:34] Rosie Gray: excellent
[2022/08/13 13:34] Agatha Macbeth: /me is relieved
[2022/08/13 13:34] Almut Brunswick: So then it is time to adjourn this meeting. Thank you all for being here and the good discussion.