RA Transcript Meeting December 17, 2013 - Part I

[Rosie Gray]

This is the full transcript of the RA meeting held December 17, 2013 that was a continuation of the December 14th meeting:
[2013/12/17 16:36:17] Shep (shep.titian): OK I suggest we get underway
[2013/12/17 16:36:20] Bagheera Kristan: hi hi
[2013/12/17 16:36:51] Shep (shep.titian): Calling the meeting to order
[2013/12/17 16:37:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me sits up straight
[2013/12/17 16:37:01] Shep (shep.titian): No Treb I see
[2013/12/17 16:37:12] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i told him earlier to be here
[2013/12/17 16:37:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: strike two
[2013/12/17 16:37:28] Shep (shep.titian): Then he did'nt listen
[2013/12/17 16:37:31] Rosie Gray: I'll keep the transcript
[2013/12/17 16:37:36] Rosie Gray: and do the Minutes again
[2013/12/17 16:37:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ill whip him tomorrow
[2013/12/17 16:37:42] Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Rosie
[2013/12/17 16:37:56] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: please dont put that on the posting.. i was so joking
[2013/12/17 16:37:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I checked, my chat log is working.
[2013/12/17 16:37:57] Shep (shep.titian): Ok can we approve this agenda?
[2013/12/17 16:38:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i move we approve it
[2013/12/17 16:38:24] Rosie Gray: second
[2013/12/17 16:38:27] Shep (shep.titian): Second
[2013/12/17 16:38:33] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2013/12/17 16:38:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: aye
[2013/12/17 16:38:36] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2013/12/17 16:38:37] Rosie Gray: aye
[2013/12/17 16:38:38] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/17 16:39:03] Second Life: Stella Polaris (agnes.sharple) is online.
[2013/12/17 16:39:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: that's a go ..
[2013/12/17 16:39:32] Second Life: Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[2013/12/17 16:39:38] Shep (shep.titian): Ok we don't have minutes available after the last debacle .. but they will be ready by the next meeting
[2013/12/17 16:39:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i move we do them all together next meeitng
[2013/12/17 16:40:00] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: since its a continuation
[2013/12/17 16:40:02] Shep (shep.titian): Second
[2013/12/17 16:40:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: aye
[2013/12/17 16:40:11] Shep (shep.titian): aye
[2013/12/17 16:40:15] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/17 16:40:16] Rosie Gray: hold on now
[2013/12/17 16:40:25] Shep (shep.titian): What?
[2013/12/17 16:40:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me giggles
[2013/12/17 16:40:39] Rosie Gray: how can I vote for that when I havent' even had time to read the first transcript?
[2013/12/17 16:40:51] Second Life: Garnet Psaltery is online.
[2013/12/17 16:40:59] Rosie Gray: /me sighs
[2013/12/17 16:41:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we moved to approve the two weeks at one time, since this is a continuation meeting of the last one
[2013/12/17 16:41:07] Rosie Gray: okay
[2013/12/17 16:41:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: andalso since we have no minutes cos trebor was one hour late
[2013/12/17 16:41:16] Rosie Gray: for the sake of brevity: aye
[2013/12/17 16:41:18] Shep (shep.titian): We are simply saying we will ferify next meeting
[2013/12/17 16:41:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so they are in progress
[2013/12/17 16:41:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok moving on..
[2013/12/17 16:41:42] Shep (shep.titian): Cool
[2013/12/17 16:42:01] Rosie Gray: can we have a notice to the CDS group that we are having a meeting now?
[2013/12/17 16:42:37] Shep (shep.titian): We have L:am here talking about the Guilds Covenants and Bagheera talking for her LA proposal
[2013/12/17 16:43:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: bagheera is going first ?
[2013/12/17 16:43:13] Rosie Gray: are we jumping straight to Old Business then?
[2013/12/17 16:43:14] Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. Citizens concerns??
[2013/12/17 16:43:21] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2013/12/17 16:43:29] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2013/12/17 16:44:12] Lam Erin: /me raises hand to speak after Calli
[2013/12/17 16:44:24] Shep (shep.titian): noted Lam
[2013/12/17 16:44:50] Callipygian Christensen: thak ou - I was going to request a better level of behaviour and productivity at RA, but Pat has posted in the Forum and said it well, so I will just urge all RA members and citizens to read his post at
[2013/12/17 16:44:51] Callipygian Christensen: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4242
[2013/12/17 16:44:55] Callipygian Christensen: done
[2013/12/17 16:44:59] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Lilith Ivory (15m)
[2013/12/17 16:45:19] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods
[2013/12/17 16:45:21] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Calli
[2013/12/17 16:45:25] Shep (shep.titian): Lam
[2013/12/17 16:45:54] Second Life: Spider22997 Upshaw is online.
[2013/12/17 16:46:12] Lam Erin: thank you Shep
[2013/12/17 16:46:53] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Lilith Ivory (19m)
[2013/12/17 16:47:01] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Lil
[2013/12/17 16:47:04] Lam Erin: My only point is to propose to discuss the LA plan first and then the covenants. It is more naural as the implementation of the plan comes first. Done
[2013/12/17 16:47:05] Lilith Ivory: /me waves silently
[2013/12/17 16:47:45] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Gwyneth Llewelyn (18m)
[2013/12/17 16:47:51] Shep (shep.titian): Yes its on the agenda in that order
[2013/12/17 16:48:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyneth
[2013/12/17 16:48:14] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Gwyn
[2013/12/17 16:48:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry everybpody.... dinner took a bit longer than planned!
[2013/12/17 16:48:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hiya
[2013/12/17 16:48:37] Rosie Gray: hi Gwyn
[2013/12/17 16:48:39] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2013/12/17 16:48:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hiya .D
[2013/12/17 16:48:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: laughs
[2013/12/17 16:48:59] Bagheera Kristan: hi hi
[2013/12/17 16:48:59] Second Life: claudia222 (claudia222.jewell) is offline.
[2013/12/17 16:49:15] Second Life: Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker) is online.
[2013/12/17 16:49:24] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Venra Aries (18m)
[2013/12/17 16:49:33] Shep (shep.titian): OK .. Gwyn wanted Bags proposal on the agenda .. and now is the time .. I assume Bags wants to talk about her own plan
[2013/12/17 16:49:37] Shep (shep.titian): Bags
[2013/12/17 16:49:41] Second Life: SDolphin is offline.
[2013/12/17 16:49:54] Bagheera Kristan: okay, thank you Madam LRA, RA and everyone
[2013/12/17 16:50:12] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Guillaume Mistwalker (3m)
[2013/12/17 16:50:20] Bagheera Kristan: I have repeated some things here a few times - LOL - I think what I stated in the Dec 3 meeting was included with the agenda, correct?
[2013/12/17 16:50:45] Bagheera Kristan: since that time, the Guild has come up with their own proposal and we have had a meeting of mind that was summarized at the last RA meeting
[2013/12/17 16:51:22] Bagheera Kristan: where I would feel my plan would be accommodated nicely just by adding the single word "patio" to the landscaping requirements of the Guild proposed covenants which Lam is here to discuss
[2013/12/17 16:51:51] Bagheera Kristan: I also quickly posted my plan at the end of last meeting - I am prepared to go over that again more slowly and field questions or just let people get a bettter look at my plan
[2013/12/17 16:52:13] Bagheera Kristan: I have placed prims behind the LRA - currently invisible - let me make them visible as I discuss each one
[2013/12/17 16:52:23] Shep (shep.titian): Please feel free Bags
[2013/12/17 16:52:34] Bagheera Kristan: Thank you Madam LRA
[2013/12/17 16:52:53] Bagheera Kristan: This first is a grid drawing I worked up the represent the LA sim
[2013/12/17 16:53:31] Bagheera Kristan: each square represents a 4x4m block - which corresponds to the blocks Linden Labs requires for parceling - so this plan is in proportion with reality
[2013/12/17 16:54:34] Bagheera Kristan: the squares represent the grid, but one can put circles or shapes over the top - so I am not adovcating a sQUARE design - LOL - just how to allocate spaces
[2013/12/17 16:54:39] Bagheera Kristan: This plan does not disturb existing citizens, addresses the RA’s Tuscan theme and call for a fishing village, protects the prims needed for a 2x prim sim, it also “fixes” the parcels that have gone begging unsold in the SE corner and also makes the main entry from CN into LA have a sense of presence by some sort of fountain/roundabout/beautiful landmark in the road.
[2013/12/17 16:54:59] Bagheera Kristan: Let me go over my other textures and then we can revisit this first one in more detail if rquested
[2013/12/17 16:55:17] Bagheera Kristan: Here is a photo of Portofino Fishing Village - I chose this one because the idea of underlying walls with paths underneath and above creates a sense of “discovery and destination” - so I used this as my model when planning the fishing village portion.
[2013/12/17 16:55:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[2013/12/17 16:55:49] Bagheera Kristan: I set things up in here so all of these should rez quickly, if anyone is having trouble with rezzing times, please speak up
[2013/12/17 16:56:17] Bagheera Kristan: I also visited this virtually using virtual Google Street view - it persists as a charming destination, even close up in detail LOL
[2013/12/17 16:56:30] Second Life: Widget Whiteberry is online.
[2013/12/17 16:57:08] Bagheera Kristan: on my grid, the center white area corresponds to where water would /could go
[2013/12/17 16:57:10] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Spider22997 Upshaw (19m)
[2013/12/17 16:57:27] Bagheera Kristan: then along the left side is a design I thought to evoke the actual fishing village from the photo
[2013/12/17 16:57:32] Bagheera Kristan: I know it is hard to visualize from the map, so I did a very rudimentary (and incomplete) workup using prims to show how it might be configured
[2013/12/17 16:58:15] Bagheera Kristan: on the SE side of LA is where the hardest part of LA has been to sell in the last 4 years I've been in CDS
[2013/12/17 16:58:26] Bagheera Kristan: that correspondes to the right side of my grid
[2013/12/17 16:58:45] Bagheera Kristan: I have designed a roundabout to create a sense of destination and some larger parcels to create "estates"
[2013/12/17 16:58:59] Bagheera Kristan: Here is a photo of a Tuscan build from the Marketplace - it has 25x48 dimensions - most Marketplace builds have a width of at least 20m and a depth that exceeds 32 - so a 24x48 parcel size in the countryside would be easy for a new citizen to find a build they liked and place it.
[2013/12/17 16:59:16] Second Life: Malakyte Thorne is online.
[2013/12/17 16:59:27] Bagheera Kristan: I favor having government built in easements whenever possible - since LA is a 2x prim sim, we are required to have the space stay open anyways and requiring the citizens manage their own easements leads to more fights between neighbors than any other single complaint I know. It doesn’t make sense to feed into this negativity when the government could design to avoid it.

This is also why I am requesting the addition of the word “patio” to the Guild’s proposed covenants.
[2013/12/17 16:59:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh nice!
[2013/12/17 17:00:13] Bagheera Kristan: here is a rough idea of what a roundabout with fountain "might" contain - I only intend this to springboard ideas to create a visual sense of arrival into the sim from CN
[2013/12/17 17:00:23] Bagheera Kristan: Other ideas included dropping the sim water level 2 meters to obtain an instant sense of height like you see with many of the sea walls in Tuscany - the point where the sim touches other sims with water could have added rapids - the new mesh versions are quite dynamic and wouldn’t cost many prims.
[2013/12/17 17:00:41] Bagheera Kristan: Okay - that is the rough outline of my plan
[2013/12/17 17:00:44] Bagheera Kristan: oh and..
[2013/12/17 17:01:13] Bagheera Kristan: I created with a specific strategy for every parcel size and placement by visualizing myself as the owner of that parcel and thinking "what could I do here?" "why do I want this?". I am NOT saying my plan is THE way to go, but I do want/hope whatever is created has a fairly developed strategy as to its appeal - both for each individual parcel and for the overall sim. I do not even know if my strategy is accurate, which was why I asked Lam for a second opinion, as an expert builder.. because I don't want this to be about my ego, but about the success of LA and of CDS *smiles*
[2013/12/17 17:01:23] Bagheera Kristan: Thank you DONE
[2013/12/17 17:01:58] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me raises hand.
[2013/12/17 17:02:11] Shep (shep.titian): G
[2013/12/17 17:02:16] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Thanks ㋡
[2013/12/17 17:02:26] Shep (shep.titian): And thank you Bags
[2013/12/17 17:02:41] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I was just wondering, as Chancellor - Bags, when do you think this could be completed?
[2013/12/17 17:03:06] Second Life: Garnet Psaltery is offline.
[2013/12/17 17:03:16] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): When is the quickest time that you think will keep both you and the Guild accountable?
[2013/12/17 17:03:18] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Thanks, done.
[2013/12/17 17:03:21] Bagheera Kristan: technically - after approval - within a week or two - maybe less with help
[2013/12/17 17:03:29] Lia V (venra.aries): /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:03:36] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Ok ㋡
[2013/12/17 17:03:38] Bagheera Kristan: it really is about getting into agreement going forward
[2013/12/17 17:03:45] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2013/12/17 17:03:56] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me nods.
[2013/12/17 17:03:58] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:04:15] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): We need to get this moving forward!
[2013/12/17 17:04:18] Shep (shep.titian): Calli
[2013/12/17 17:04:43] Callipygian Christensen: thank you - topography, other than lowering water level so shoreline looks different, is there any proposed change to topography?
[2013/12/17 17:05:00] Shep (shep.titian): Lia sorry I missed you .. after Calli
[2013/12/17 17:05:26] Callipygian Christensen: oh sorry Lia..I missed that too
[2013/12/17 17:05:33] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand to be after Lia
[2013/12/17 17:05:34] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:05:36] Bagheera Kristan: yes - I see the SE side being graded a bit more sharply but the changes wouldn't take too long
[2013/12/17 17:06:00] Second Life: AbbyRose Abbot is online.
[2013/12/17 17:06:01] Second Life: Stella Polaris (agnes.sharple) is offline.
[2013/12/17 17:06:10] Shep (shep.titian): Done Calli?
[2013/12/17 17:06:20] Bagheera Kristan: and parcels for estates being flattened a bit to accommodate builds
[2013/12/17 17:06:39] Callipygian Christensen: so only that area, plus flattter elsewhere?
[2013/12/17 17:06:50] Callipygian Christensen: and yes, done now
[2013/12/17 17:06:58] Shep (shep.titian): Lia?
[2013/12/17 17:07:12] Bagheera Kristan: oh yes and the pink dot in the center is an island - to correspond to where th enatural landing point in thesim is - that is necessary, just a thought
[2013/12/17 17:07:22] Bagheera Kristan: is NOT necessary*
[2013/12/17 17:07:51] Lia V (venra.aries): hi will any of us need to lift our builds for the redo and will the parcel sizes of currently occupied homes change? the building i have is mesh, it would need to be redone from scratch if the parcel sizes change
[2013/12/17 17:08:30] Shep (shep.titian): Bags can you answer?
[2013/12/17 17:08:31] Bagheera Kristan: my intent is to leave current citizen parcels undisturbed as much as possible - there might be a need to raise the whole thing due to terraforming's irregularities affecting the whole sim
[2013/12/17 17:08:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (great, Lia, I wished to ask the same thing!!)
[2013/12/17 17:08:35] Bagheera Kristan: but it would be minor
[2013/12/17 17:08:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[2013/12/17 17:08:52] Lia V (venra.aries): ahhhhh okies, good to know thank you
[2013/12/17 17:09:01] Shep (shep.titian): Tor
[2013/12/17 17:09:09] Shep (shep.titian): then Rosie
[2013/12/17 17:09:27] Lam Erin: /me raises hand to speak after rosie
[2013/12/17 17:09:35] Shep (shep.titian): noted
[2013/12/17 17:10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2013/12/17 17:10:03] Tor Karlsvalt: thank you.
[2013/12/17 17:10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: First I was hoping to have some cliffes and beach on the north side of the sim. Do you think this plan would allow for that. Second, would the plan allow for people to volunteer their land for the redevelopment in exchange for a similar parcel in a similar location. Third, I like the fountain but really hoped the village became the focal point of the sim. Perhaps the area close to CN could be more rural.
[2013/12/17 17:10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: done, Bags you can answer if you please.
[2013/12/17 17:10:34] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Victor1st Mornington (19m)
[2013/12/17 17:10:43] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: AbbyRose Abbot (12m)
[2013/12/17 17:10:58] Bagheera Kristan: let me orient myself, just a moment please
[2013/12/17 17:11:24] Second Life: Maria Zarco (maria.zarco) is offline.
[2013/12/17 17:11:36] Bagheera Kristan: the plan allows for cliffs along the north side of the sim, but not really beach front there as it is currently drafted
[2013/12/17 17:11:43] Second Life: Nic Kelberry is online.
[2013/12/17 17:12:24] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie?
[2013/12/17 17:12:24] Bagheera Kristan: If people chose to volunteer their parcel for redevelopment that would be, of course, their decision and welcome
[2013/12/17 17:12:29] Bagheera Kristan: just a moment please
[2013/12/17 17:12:36] Shep (shep.titian): sorry
[2013/12/17 17:13:13] Bagheera Kristan: as for the village being the focal point of the sim - I am not against it being "a" focal point - but visualizing entry from LA from the main CN road now - there really is no "there" there - also
[2013/12/17 17:13:43] Bagheera Kristan: the roundabout allows for a nice easement with minimal prims to support the 2x prim nature of the sim
[2013/12/17 17:13:53] Bagheera Kristan: andnot just a blank space - done
[2013/12/17 17:14:07] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[2013/12/17 17:14:11] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2013/12/17 17:15:12] Rosie Gray: since we are looking at Bag's proposal for the redo of LA, may I also show the plans that the guild came up with, that the guild was charged with doing by the previous RA and Chancellor?
[2013/12/17 17:15:22] Rosie Gray: we can see them both at the same time
[2013/12/17 17:15:43] Shep (shep.titian): I don't object
[2013/12/17 17:15:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure.... I thought Bags presentation was something they did together? (But I don't object either)
[2013/12/17 17:15:52] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Nic Kelberry (18m)
[2013/12/17 17:16:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: they = Chancellor + Guild
[2013/12/17 17:16:13] Rosie Gray: sorry Shep
[2013/12/17 17:16:43] Rosie Gray: let me explain briefly
[2013/12/17 17:17:00] Shep (shep.titian): Don't worry lol
[2013/12/17 17:17:04] Rosie Gray: this is a modification of Calli's original concept
[2013/12/17 17:17:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2013/12/17 17:17:15] Nic Kelberry: wow
[2013/12/17 17:17:22] Rosie Gray: the one on the left is roads and water only
[2013/12/17 17:17:29] Nic Kelberry: Hello guys
[2013/12/17 17:17:47] Shep (shep.titian): Hi Nic
[2013/12/17 17:17:53] Nic Kelberry: hi Tor an Cleo!
[2013/12/17 17:18:01] Second Life: Maria Zarco (maria.zarco) is online.
[2013/12/17 17:18:01] Nic Kelberry: hi shep
[2013/12/17 17:18:02] Rosie Gray: the map in the middle is overlay of the roads and water on top of the sim as it is now, so you can see what would be changed and what wouldn't, with this plan
[2013/12/17 17:18:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hi nic
[2013/12/17 17:18:09] Tor Karlsvalt: /me waives
[2013/12/17 17:18:13] Rosie Gray: the map on the right is elevations
[2013/12/17 17:18:20] Nic Kelberry: sorry to be late
[2013/12/17 17:18:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Current elevations or planned, Rosie?
[2013/12/17 17:18:42] Rosie Gray: as you can see, the focus of the plan is on the fishing village, indicated by the smaller lines
[2013/12/17 17:18:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me blinks.
[2013/12/17 17:18:58] Rosie Gray: planned elevations, Gwyn, but a natural flow from the sims adjacent
[2013/12/17 17:19:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok thanks!
[2013/12/17 17:19:37] Rosie Gray: the grid overlay is to prepare for the next step, which has not been done
[2013/12/17 17:19:46] Rosie Gray: of planning the land divisions
[2013/12/17 17:20:12] Shep (shep.titian): Ok how are we to come to a desiscion ?
[2013/12/17 17:20:40] Rosie Gray: I don't see that there would be a problem adding a fountain circle in the same place as Bags' plan, but I wouldn't make it so large
[2013/12/17 17:20:58] Rosie Gray: and I would also keep in mind that Tuscany is rolling hills mostly
[2013/12/17 17:21:02] Rosie Gray: with cliffs
[2013/12/17 17:21:07] Shep (shep.titian): Personally I'd say no fountain
[2013/12/17 17:21:28] Rosie Gray: well there are fountains in Tuscany
[2013/12/17 17:21:39] Second Life: Io (io.bechir) is online.
[2013/12/17 17:21:41] Shep (shep.titian): Of course there are
[2013/12/17 17:21:50] Rosie Gray: but that road is in the countryside, so it would be more of a country-fountain
[2013/12/17 17:22:00] Lia V (venra.aries): all depends on which "tuscany" you mean
[2013/12/17 17:22:14] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me nods at lia
[2013/12/17 17:22:21] Rosie Gray: and you can see that the roads flow into the adjacent sims in the same way as they already do
[2013/12/17 17:22:39] Rosie Gray: there would be no displacement of properties on the side adjacent to Monastery
[2013/12/17 17:22:53] Rosie Gray: and none adjacent to CN
[2013/12/17 17:23:06] Shep (shep.titian): Well Lia .. I think Rosie said that the plan was for countryside .. plus fishing village
[2013/12/17 17:23:22] Bagheera Kristan: raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:23:30] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Well, to be fair, Lia, Portofino is not Tuscan -- it's Genoese.
[2013/12/17 17:23:32] Rosie Gray: the people that I've spoken with who have properties along the water-side don't mind, and in fact were aware of the fact that the sim was going to change
[2013/12/17 17:23:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I dont think we need to displace any citizens without meeting with the ones affected formall and openly first. I would vote to have everyone remain in tact as our first choice. We are remiss not getting the current residents
[2013/12/17 17:23:43] Rosie Gray: people, please stop talking while I have the floor
[2013/12/17 17:23:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me agrees with Gilly
[2013/12/17 17:23:57] Rosie Gray: stop talking while I have the floor
[2013/12/17 17:24:08] Second Life: Io (io.bechir) is offline.
[2013/12/17 17:24:14] Shep (shep.titian): Yes people behave
[2013/12/17 17:24:29] Rosie Gray: so this is the plan that several of us came up with
[2013/12/17 17:24:33] Rosie Gray: are there any questions about it?
[2013/12/17 17:25:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I'll raise my hand (after Bags I think)
[2013/12/17 17:25:05] Lam Erin: i have a few comments/questions on both plans but I will wait
[2013/12/17 17:25:10] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Which people will be displaced ? What do they think
[2013/12/17 17:25:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Have we met with the citizens affected ?
[2013/12/17 17:25:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: That is my first concern.
[2013/12/17 17:25:34] Shep (shep.titian): Did you want to speak Cleo?
[2013/12/17 17:25:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: im done
[2013/12/17 17:25:47] Rosie Gray: I have chatted with AbbyRose about her property, and she is moving anyway
[2013/12/17 17:25:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw
[2013/12/17 17:25:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Who else is affected
[2013/12/17 17:26:05] Shep (shep.titian): Cleo
[2013/12/17 17:26:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: She is at a nother parcel in LA now Gwyn.
[2013/12/17 17:26:16] Rosie Gray: yes she's moved to another, larger parcel
[2013/12/17 17:26:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah whew
[2013/12/17 17:26:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2013/12/17 17:26:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[2013/12/17 17:26:44] Rosie Gray: there are VERY few people who would be affected, and they have ALL come here AFTER we made plans to redevelop
[2013/12/17 17:26:50] Rosie Gray: and they ALL have known about it
[2013/12/17 17:26:57] Shep (shep.titian): Bags did you want to speak?
[2013/12/17 17:27:00] Rosie Gray: so there is really not that much to worry about
[2013/12/17 17:27:05] Rosie Gray: in that regard
[2013/12/17 17:27:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: very rfew
[2013/12/17 17:27:15] Rosie Gray: done
[2013/12/17 17:27:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no i am sorry, very few means who exactly
[2013/12/17 17:27:18] Bagheera Kristan: I have said this privately - I came to CDS in 2010
[2013/12/17 17:27:21] Bagheera Kristan: yes please
[2013/12/17 17:27:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: There are 13 or 14 residents of LA
[2013/12/17 17:27:35] Bagheera Kristan: two things - okay 3
[2013/12/17 17:27:38] Rosie Gray: Cleo you do not have the floor so shut up
[2013/12/17 17:27:41] Shep (shep.titian): Bags
[2013/12/17 17:27:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: 'very few" is not acceptable.
[2013/12/17 17:27:55] Bagheera Kristan: 16 residents currently in LA.. but also
[2013/12/17 17:27:58] Shep (shep.titian): CLEO stop it
[2013/12/17 17:28:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Saying shut up is inappropriate Rosie.
[2013/12/17 17:28:02] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me throws a rock at CLEO's mouth.
[2013/12/17 17:28:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: That is un called for.
[2013/12/17 17:28:19] Shep (shep.titian): NOT inappropriate from me
[2013/12/17 17:28:27] Bagheera Kristan: over the past 4 years - and this may be apocryphal - but my observation has been that the Monastery border, seaside and the Quay sell well
[2013/12/17 17:28:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I wll be filing an abuse report now for that person. throwing rocks is vilolent
[2013/12/17 17:28:49] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Cry me a river.
[2013/12/17 17:28:51] Bagheera Kristan: the part that needs to be fixed is the part that is vacant now - it seems to always be vacant and it is due to the parcelling done there
[2013/12/17 17:28:58] Shep (shep.titian): G don't start
[2013/12/17 17:29:01] Spider22997 Upshaw: your out of order cleo
[2013/12/17 17:29:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: eject him or i will leave
[2013/12/17 17:29:16] Shep (shep.titian): Both of you can go
[2013/12/17 17:29:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: get out of here
[2013/12/17 17:29:33] Shep (shep.titian): Bags can you cool them off
[2013/12/17 17:29:34] Bagheera Kristan: in my own opinion, from my own observations, the quay does not necessarily need to be replaced - it has always been popular
[2013/12/17 17:29:43] Bagheera Kristan: I AM TALKING PLEASE!
[2013/12/17 17:29:51] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me is listening.
[2013/12/17 17:30:09] Lam Erin: Gaius you were asked to go...
[2013/12/17 17:30:37] Bagheera Kristan: as for fishing villages, there had been talk about what things looked like that were not present time
[2013/12/17 17:30:41] Shep (shep.titian): G go cool off somewhere
[2013/12/17 17:30:45] Bagheera Kristan: I found the following print from 1825
[2013/12/17 17:31:18] Shep (shep.titian): Bags can you move G please
[2013/12/17 17:31:21] Bagheera Kristan: so the idea of statuary isn't completely out of character
[2013/12/17 17:31:39] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:31:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lovely print, Bags! And I see what you mean)
[2013/12/17 17:31:47] Shep (shep.titian): Why are you fixared on a statue?
[2013/12/17 17:31:51] Bagheera Kristan: done thank you
[2013/12/17 17:31:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whispers: Thanks!
[2013/12/17 17:32:07] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
[2013/12/17 17:32:09] Bagheera Kristan: I am not, it was the whole view - I'm not really fixated on anything except making the sim work
[2013/12/17 17:32:32] Rosie Gray: thank you Shep
[2013/12/17 17:33:15] Rosie Gray: I just wanted to say that it really matters not to me which plan we go with... but I wanted the citizens to see that when the guild was charged with creating one, that it was done
[2013/12/17 17:33:26] Rosie Gray: and that there are 2 viable choices
[2013/12/17 17:33:28] Rosie Gray: done
[2013/12/17 17:33:49] MystiTool HUD 2.0.2: Entering chat range: Guillaume Mistwalker (12m)
[2013/12/17 17:34:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks Rosie!
[2013/12/17 17:34:35] Bagheera Kristan: ((please return to Local chat))
[2013/12/17 17:34:35] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Rosie ... I feel that Bags and the Guild could come together and incorporate some things from both
[2013/12/17 17:34:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, and I thought that was what actually happened
[2013/12/17 17:35:09] Lam Erin: /me waiting tp speak after Rosie finishes
[2013/12/17 17:35:15] Shep (shep.titian): Not so far
[2013/12/17 17:35:17] Rosie Gray: I"m done Lam
[2013/12/17 17:35:18] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2013/12/17 17:35:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I ask a few questions afterwards?
[2013/12/17 17:35:44] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:35:48] Rosie Gray: I'm going to have to go very shortly
[2013/12/17 17:35:57] Lam Erin: /me waiting for shep's call
[2013/12/17 17:36:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aw ok.
[2013/12/17 17:36:20] Tor Karlsvalt: /me withdraws his hand as Lam was waiting.
[2013/12/17 17:36:23] Shep (shep.titian): So do you Rosie and Lam for the guild and Bags as Chancellor .. can you come together to thrash out LA finally?
[2013/12/17 17:36:51] Shep (shep.titian): WE should have covenants sorted in a few minutes
[2013/12/17 17:37:05] Bagheera Kristan: I believe we can - if you were asking for an answer
[2013/12/17 17:37:09] Lam Erin: We could yes
[2013/12/17 17:37:19] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Bags lol
[2013/12/17 17:37:32] Rosie Gray: I think if all parties are willing to move on some things, yes ㋡
[2013/12/17 17:38:01] Second Life: Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington) is offline.
[2013/12/17 17:38:06] Shep (shep.titian): Excellent .. do you want to be formed into a committee?
[2013/12/17 17:38:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good idea!
[2013/12/17 17:38:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that the main differences are 1) The focus — fishing village or something else? and 2) How many people need to be kicked out. If we can sort those things out, I think we mioght get an unified plan. Personally, I'd be all for not kicking anyone out of their parcels, and I have no opinion about the fishing village
[2013/12/17 17:38:52] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me raises hand.
[2013/12/17 17:38:58] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:39:02] Shep (shep.titian): G?
[2013/12/17 17:39:09] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Is Gwyn done?
[2013/12/17 17:39:13] Lam Erin: /me raised hand ages ago
[2013/12/17 17:39:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry.
[2013/12/17 17:39:15] Bagheera Kristan: ((did Lam get to speak?))
[2013/12/17 17:39:17] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Ah, ok.
[2013/12/17 17:39:26] Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Lam
[2013/12/17 17:39:39] Lam Erin: May I ?
[2013/12/17 17:39:42] Tor Karlsvalt: /me raises hand for after Lam and Gaius.
[2013/12/17 17:39:44] Second Life: Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington) is online.
[2013/12/17 17:39:51] Shep (shep.titian): Yes go for it
[2013/12/17 17:39:56] Lam Erin: ok..
[2013/12/17 17:39:58] Shep (shep.titian): G wait please
[2013/12/17 17:40:12] Rosie Gray: sorry folks I have to go... will leave my avatar here to get the chat-log
[2013/12/17 17:40:53] Lam Erin: I believe that the underlying principle for any of the plans finally approaved must be "project for the people and not people for the project"
[2013/12/17 17:40:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Rosie, thanks so much for your presentation!
[2013/12/17 17:41:10] Shep (shep.titian): Ok Rosie .. thanks for coming
[2013/12/17 17:42:01] Lam Erin: this means that the plan must make sure that it works for the benefit of the people living in LA and not for the shake of the redevelopment where we then try to fit people and parcels in
[2013/12/17 17:42:23] Shep (shep.titian): True
[2013/12/17 17:42:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear
[2013/12/17 17:42:54] Lam Erin: in simple words which ever plan is approved it must have minimal disturbance of current people living in LA
[2013/12/17 17:43:09] Lilith Ivory: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:43:11] Lam Erin: which is perfectly doable given that almost half of the land
[2013/12/17 17:43:24] Shep (shep.titian): After Tor Lil
[2013/12/17 17:43:25] Lam Erin: of LA is currently controlled by CDS
[2013/12/17 17:43:42] Lam Erin: roads and walkaways are also already there
[2013/12/17 17:43:53] Lam Erin: so some things can change without problems
[2013/12/17 17:44:00] Lam Erin: thats my first point
[2013/12/17 17:44:05] Lam Erin: My second point is
[2013/12/17 17:44:17] Lam Erin: that as a builder I like any idea presented on the map
[2013/12/17 17:44:26] Lam Erin: but I will be able to tell when I see the result
[2013/12/17 17:44:33] Lam Erin: both plans are doable
[2013/12/17 17:44:45] Lam Erin: and could produce great outcomes
[2013/12/17 17:44:47] Lam Erin: IF done
[2013/12/17 17:44:58] Lam Erin: in the right way
[2013/12/17 17:45:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me still has his hand raised.
[2013/12/17 17:45:20] Shep (shep.titian): I know G
[2013/12/17 17:45:29] Lam Erin: so I am not so much conrned about the plans themeselves but on how the sim will look at the end
[2013/12/17 17:45:37] Lam Erin: finally and will stop here
[2013/12/17 17:45:43] Lam Erin: the third point is
[2013/12/17 17:45:54] Lam Erin: that such projects which affect many people
[2013/12/17 17:46:01] Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Lam I agree with you
[2013/12/17 17:46:02] Lam Erin: can be designed and executed by consensus
[2013/12/17 17:46:19] Lam Erin: it is not the guild's plan or the chancellor's plan
[2013/12/17 17:46:23] Lam Erin: or Lam's plan
[2013/12/17 17:46:29] Lam Erin: it is the CD's plan
[2013/12/17 17:46:37] Shep (shep.titian):
[2013/12/17 17:46:42] Lam Erin: this means that all those involved in the process
[2013/12/17 17:47:04] Lam Erin: must make sure that the wrk for the purposes of reaching consensus
[2013/12/17 17:47:22] Lam Erin: which is acceptable by as many CDS citizens as possible
[2013/12/17 17:47:32] Lam Erin: I rememind all RA emmbers and the Chancellor
[2013/12/17 17:47:42] Second Life: Widget Whiteberry is offline.
[2013/12/17 17:47:49] Lam Erin: that in the pre-election debates
[2013/12/17 17:47:56] Lam Erin: they promised to engage more citizens
[2013/12/17 17:48:04] Lam Erin: this is a good testing case
[2013/12/17 17:48:12] Lam Erin: for all...
[2013/12/17 17:48:16] Lam Erin: Done.
[2013/12/17 17:48:23] Shep (shep.titian): thanks
[2013/12/17 17:48:25] Shep (shep.titian): G
[2013/12/17 17:48:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bravo, well said!
[2013/12/17 17:48:35] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): First, I wish to apologise to CLEO if she thought perceived my comment as being "violent." It was my frustration at an out-of-order RA member - as all citizens are equal before the law.
[2013/12/17 17:48:44] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): However, more to my point, I was wondering the rationale behind yet delaying action even more... We have, what? Waited two terms yet to see these plans before us, all while the estate loses more and more money and while no newer citizens are coming into the CDS.
[2013/12/17 17:49:00] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): How long has the CDS waited? That is my question - and it's a rhetorical one. I argue that the project needs to be pushed forward as quickly as possible. This means that we ought to skip over the committee and prepare the sims as quickly as possible, so that this project for the people can get underway as soon as possible. Consensus and democracy continue on as the project is worked on.
[2013/12/17 17:49:51] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): If the CDS wants to engage citizens, engage them in the process of building. Implement democracy as building goes on. If there is something one doesn't like, motion against it.
[2013/12/17 17:49:53] Shep (shep.titian): I know it seems like that
[2013/12/17 17:50:31] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): You will NOT engage citizens if you practice lethargy!
[2013/12/17 17:50:36] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Done.
[2013/12/17 17:50:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, true
[2013/12/17 17:50:41] Shep (shep.titian): I get frustrated at delays .. I wanted it locked and changed months ago before it got new citizens
[2013/12/17 17:51:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. In our historym, except for the Monastery I think, we never took less than a year to deplçoy a sim
[2013/12/17 17:51:17] Shep (shep.titian): Tor then Lil
[2013/12/17 17:51:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks
[2013/12/17 17:51:38] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me counts that it has been over an hour.
[2013/12/17 17:52:02] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): *a year
[2013/12/17 17:52:06] Tor Karlsvalt: First I want to express my agreement with what Lam said. Indeed we should create a sim the residents of can be happy with and one that will serve CDS well in the future.
[2013/12/17 17:52:17] Tor Karlsvalt: A lot is said about what the residents want.
[2013/12/17 17:53:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I know that as the oldest continuous resident of LA, I want what is best for CDS and have seen the sim languish too long as an uninteresting place for most CDSrs.
[2013/12/17 17:53:41] Bagheera Kristan: ((I am going to have to leave soon..I will leave my avatar here...but I committed to only stay til 5:30..RL calls))
[2013/12/17 17:53:54] Second Life: Penelope Gossamer is online.
[2013/12/17 17:53:57] Shep (shep.titian): ok Bags
[2013/12/17 17:53:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thanks for coming, Bags, and for the presentation!)
[2013/12/17 17:54:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I also, know that some residents of LA held land there only to support the sim. A sim that a year ago could have easily been shut down.
[2013/12/17 17:54:17] Shep (shep.titian): We need you briefly on the next item
[2013/12/17 17:54:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, indeed the portion north of the river has never sold well for almost all my existance in CDS.
[2013/12/17 17:54:29] Bagheera Kristan: k
[2013/12/17 17:54:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Indeed the Quay also was usually vacant.
[2013/12/17 17:54:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I do like both plans in general.
[2013/12/17 17:55:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I do feel that current residents have recently done much for CDS and need to be considered.
[2013/12/17 17:55:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I myself am more than willing to be displaced for the benefit of CDS.
[2013/12/17 17:55:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Done
[2013/12/17 17:55:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me applauds
[2013/12/17 17:55:58] Shep (shep.titian): OK last on this subject Lil
[2013/12/17 17:56:44] Lilith Ivory: I would like to suggest we walk from door to door again, ask the citizens there for their opinions and ask them to give permission to be quoted with their names
[2013/12/17 17:56:59] Second Life: maitrae (maits) is online.
[2013/12/17 17:57:07] Lilith Ivory: so the RA does not have to guess any longer who might have concernes and who is fine with the redevelpoment plans
[2013/12/17 17:57:18] Lam Erin: /me raises hand
[2013/12/17 17:57:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me nods and agrees
[2013/12/17 17:57:26] Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
[2013/12/17 17:57:27] Shep (shep.titian): Good idea
[2013/12/17 17:57:29] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me nods, "Action! I like it."
[2013/12/17 17:57:49] Lilith Ivory: done
[2013/12/17 17:57:49] Shep (shep.titian): Lam briefly please have to move on
[2013/12/17 17:58:17] Lam Erin: I am not against this idea but I anticipate another month or so of delays.
[2013/12/17 17:58:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
[2013/12/17 17:58:31] Lam Erin: so we will never going to make it
[2013/12/17 17:58:36] Lam Erin: in the past couple of months
[2013/12/17 17:58:43] Lam Erin: situation at LA is stable
[2013/12/17 17:58:50] Lam Erin: peop;e expressed their views
[2013/12/17 17:58:55] Lam Erin: we need final decisions
[2013/12/17 17:59:03] Shep (shep.titian): Yes we will .. lets get these covenants through
[2013/12/17 17:59:06] Lam Erin: not further waste of time
[2013/12/17 17:59:21] Lam Erin: done
[2013/12/17 17:59:31] Bagheera Kristan: ((I really have to go but if you add patio I am in agreement))
[2013/12/17 17:59:32] Shep (shep.titian): Neither plan is finished enough to vote on
[2013/12/17 17:59:58] Shep (shep.titian): OK Bags I'll bring that up
[2013/12/17 18:00:18] Delia Lake: /me raises her hand.
[2013/12/17 18:00:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can vote on finishing one plan instead of the other — or perhaps move to plan together, which was, I believem, one of your proposals, Shep
[2013/12/17 18:00:35] Shep (shep.titian): THe parcels need to be worked out for tier
[2013/12/17 18:01:01] Lam Erin: the hope is to reach an agreement on a final plan, otherwise voting is the only option
[2013/12/17 18:01:27] Shep (shep.titian): Yes I fel Bags and the Guild could come to a happy agreement
[2013/12/17 18:01:38] Lilith Ivory: /me nods
[2013/12/17 18:02:30] Shep (shep.titian): Lam you arepart of the guild also .. so you can help .. you are allowed to p[ester them
[2013/12/17 18:02:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, since I think that both agree to work together, should we vote on a resolution? "Motion: that the two groups together and present a final plan for immediate redevelopment"
[2013/12/17 18:02:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or is that not necessary?
[2013/12/17 18:03:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it is, I would add "... provided that nobody in LA is redeployed against their will"
[2013/12/17 18:03:09] Shep (shep.titian): Its good Gwyn makes it official
[2013/12/17 18:03:26] Shep (shep.titian): Go for it
[2013/12/17 18:03:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Motion: that the two groups together and present a final plan for immediate redevelopment. provided that nobody in LA is redeployed against their will
[2013/12/17 18:03:36] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2013/12/17 18:03:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks Tor
[2013/12/17 18:03:42] Shep (shep.titian): Vote
[2013/12/17 18:03:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[2013/12/17 18:03:46] Shep (shep.titian): Aye
[2013/12/17 18:03:46] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2013/12/17 18:04:21] Shep (shep.titian): I guess we pass it with 3 votes
[2013/12/17 18:04:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2013/12/17 18:04:40] Shep (shep.titian): Well done all lol
[2013/12/17 18:04:52] Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on
[2013/12/17 18:05:15] Lilith Ivory: /me applauds
[2013/12/17 18:05:33] Shep (shep.titian): The Guilds Proposal for covenants for the new LA
[2013/12/17 18:05:54] Lam Erin: is it me?
[2013/12/17 18:06:02] Second Life: maitrae (maits) is offline.
[2013/12/17 18:06:10] Shep (shep.titian): Please Lam
[2013/12/17 18:06:20] Lam Erin: thank you
[2013/12/17 18:06:45] Lam Erin: the text of the draft covenants is available here
[2013/12/17 18:06:46] Lam Erin: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4238
[2013/12/17 18:07:42] Lam Erin: i will be placing in the local chat the text in parts for any comments..If there arent we move on and at the end RA will vote
[2013/12/17 18:08:13] Lam Erin: Part 1.
[2013/12/17 18:08:15] Lam Erin: LOCUS AMOENUS (Sim-wide covenant, DRAFT)

Locus Amoenus is inspired by and modeled after rural Tuscany reference images located here: with a large area of surrounding countryside.

Building style that is consistent with those of rural, timeless, pre-modern Tuscany; from post-Roman (this means Roman builds can exist, but would be ‘old’ rather than new) up to and including pre-WW1 (1914).
[2013/12/17 18:08:59] Lam Erin: Are there any comments/questions on this part?
[2013/12/17 18:09:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me remains silent. In fact, I think I have no questions whatsoever!
[2013/12/17 18:09:35] Shep (shep.titian): good lord
[2013/12/17 18:09:38] Lam Erin: moving on
[2013/12/17 18:09:40] Lam Erin: All vending machines in the commercial areas will be inside of buildings, preserving the look of the building (not filling up exterior archways). All exterior signage must be consistent with the theme. Any permanent posters on the exteriors must be consistent in size and style with the sim theme.

Harbour area (fishing village) parcels are restricted to the original buildings (pre-fabs) created for them, or rebuilds as approved by the Chancellor.
[2013/12/17 18:09:45] Tor Karlsvalt: /me wonders where patio had to be inserted.
[2013/12/17 18:09:59] Lam Erin: (I will highlight it Tor)
[2013/12/17 18:10:08] Shep (shep.titian): Gardens I asdsume Tor
[2013/12/17 18:10:54] Lam Erin: any comments?
[2013/12/17 18:11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me
[2013/12/17 18:11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nope
[2013/12/17 18:11:32] Lam Erin: moving on
[2013/12/17 18:11:34] Lam Erin: It is a double-prim sim, which means that a 512 m2 parcel has 234 prims allotted instead of the usual 117.
Locus Amoenus has zones which are used to define the expected appearance of builds and/or different administration of land.

The Zones are: H (Harbour and beachfront), F (Fishing village) and C (Countryside). Plots are identified by a string P.X, corresponding to the number of the plot. Terraforming is allowed within a distance of +2/-2 meters.
[2013/12/17 18:11:38] Shep (shep.titian): carry on
[2013/12/17 18:12:02] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2013/12/17 18:12:21] Lam Erin: my only comment here is that I assume that the zones correspond to the current ones
[2013/12/17 18:12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So "pateo" is not one of the zones, right? (I'm following the notecard as well)
[2013/12/17 18:12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
[2013/12/17 18:12:40] Lam Erin: (patio comes next
[2013/12/17 18:12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2013/12/17 18:12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did Sudane take a look at it? Sorry, I haven't read the forums on the covenant discussion
[2013/12/17 18:13:22] Lam Erin: Rosie can answer that
[2013/12/17 18:13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok thanks
[2013/12/17 18:13:42] Lam Erin: moving on
[2013/12/17 18:13:44] Lam Erin: All the buildings exteriors must be built in pre-industrial materials, namely:

Structural elements can be stone, wood, terracotta, clay, brick or marble

Roofing elements are terracotta, slate and wood.

Flooring elements can be terracotta, marble, stone, brick, mosaic tile or wood

Wall elements can be stone, clay, brick, terracotta, stucco or wood.

Door and window elements can be wood or metals. Large panes of glass must be partitioned by appropriate framing.
Buildings will have no full bright components. Glow is kept to a minimum and used for subtle effects only.
[2013/12/17 18:13:46] Shep (shep.titian): Rosie is AFK
[2013/12/17 18:13:49] Lilith Ivory: as far as I know Rosie and Sudane are working closely together
[2013/12/17 18:14:05] Shep (shep.titian): they usually do
[2013/12/17 18:14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (aye, that's what I have heard, Lil, but it's good to have it for the record!)
[2013/12/17 18:15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No more questions on this section for me, Lam
[2013/12/17 18:15:13] Lam Erin: ok the final section has the reference to the patio...
[2013/12/17 18:15:16] Lam Erin: I will explain
[2013/12/17 18:15:20] Lam Erin: Zone H: (Harbour and beachfront). Commercial and residential. Buildings in this zone should resemble styles found in central Italy. Structures may be no taller than 20 meters.

Zone C: (Countryside). Residential only. Commercial activity is prohibited. Structures may be no taller than 20m. Buildings in this zone should resemble styles found in rural central Italy. 20% of the plot of land will be open space, patio, forested, pond, garden or agriculture. There must be a minimum of 3 trees per 1024m2 of plot area.

Zone F: (Fishing Village). Mixed commercial and residential, small in scale, restricted to the original buildings (pre-fabs) created for them, or rebuilds as specifically approved by the Chancellor.

Skyboxes begin at 1000 meters and up to remove visual pollution from the ground for those with long draw distances.
[2013/12/17 18:16:00] Tor Karlsvalt: /me ok
[2013/12/17 18:16:02] Lam Erin: I added Patio to Zone C
[2013/12/17 18:16:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I see the issue of where the patio is — fine by me
[2013/12/17 18:16:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods*
[2013/12/17 18:16:15] Lam Erin: the difference here is
[2013/12/17 18:16:20] Tor Karlsvalt: /me happy too.
[2013/12/17 18:16:29] Lam Erin: that we removed the +/-2m
[2013/12/17 18:16:34] Lam Erin: requirement
[2013/12/17 18:16:37] Shep (shep.titian): yes no problem here
[2013/12/17 18:16:46] Lam Erin: from parcel borders
[2013/12/17 18:16:55] Lam Erin: and was replaced by a more flexible covenant
[2013/12/17 18:17:08] Lam Erin: requiring some open sppace, garden, patio etc
[2013/12/17 18:17:30] Second Life: Sudane Erato is online.
[2013/12/17 18:17:30] Lam Erin: also a good addition was that skyboxes should be placed above 1000m
[2013/12/17 18:17:35] Tor Karlsvalt: /me content that patio can be open space.
[2013/12/17 18:17:52] Lilith Ivory: ah Sudane is online
[2013/12/17 18:17:54] Tor Karlsvalt: /me smiles bright.
[2013/12/17 18:18:01] Shep (shep.titian): Yes Patio is good
[2013/12/17 18:18:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2013/12/17 18:18:02] Lilith Ivory: maybe she can confirm she is working with Rosie
[2013/12/17 18:18:07] Lam Erin: I am not sure how patio can be defined
[2013/12/17 18:18:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I like the revised covenants
[2013/12/17 18:18:23] Lam Erin: the idea is as it is rural area
[2013/12/17 18:18:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... as an architecture element, there is definitely a definition for patio
[2013/12/17 18:18:31] Lam Erin: that there must be some open area
[2013/12/17 18:18:42] Lam Erin: on the other hand we need also consider that the parcels are small
[2013/12/17 18:19:01] Lam Erin: we are talking about rural development in parcels which as city-size
[2013/12/17 18:19:21] Lam Erin: we need some balance to avoid situations of "micro-houses"
[2013/12/17 18:19:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[2013/12/17 18:19:29] Shep (shep.titian): Well thats why the fishing village
[2013/12/17 18:19:45] Lam Erin: so the new covenants are flexible
[2013/12/17 18:19:52] Lam Erin: also in other aspects such as signage
[2013/12/17 18:20:07] Lam Erin: where there was no limit placed
[2013/12/17 18:20:18] Lam Erin: on numbers but they still need to meet the theme
[2013/12/17 18:20:20] Tor Karlsvalt: /me thinks flexible is good and peaceful.
[2013/12/17 18:20:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now even the signage has to be 'in theme'.... I understand that
[2013/12/17 18:20:31] Lam Erin: yes
[2013/12/17 18:20:56] Lam Erin: there was some discussion on whether a limit should be placed on number of posters etc
[2013/12/17 18:21:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It makes sense. I love the signs in NFS because most are 'in theme'. It makes sense to slowly do that on all revised covenants
[2013/12/17 18:21:02] Lam Erin: but this was dropped
[2013/12/17 18:21:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[2013/12/17 18:21:28] Lam Erin: so it is more flexible but has to meet the theme which is reasonable
[2013/12/17 18:21:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
[2013/12/17 18:21:54] Lam Erin: My only comment/clarificatin
[2013/12/17 18:22:00] Second Life: Kellie Wellesley is online.
[2013/12/17 18:22:04] Lam Erin: is that as the plan has not been approved yet
[2013/12/17 18:22:23] Lam Erin: you need i think to add when voting
[2013/12/17 18:22:31] Lam Erin: that zoning wont be changed
[2013/12/17 18:22:38] Second Life: Molly Medier is online.
[2013/12/17 18:22:39] Lam Erin: from the current as a result of the plan
[2013/12/17 18:22:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good suggestion.
[2013/12/17 18:23:03] Lam Erin: I mean a parcel currently designed as commercial
[2013/12/17 18:23:27] Lam Erin: will not change status to become residential and vice versa
[2013/12/17 18:23:34] Tor Karlsvalt: You mean to grandfather a persons zone?
[2013/12/17 18:23:51] Lam Erin: i mean that I assues that new zones follow the older
[2013/12/17 18:24:00] Lam Erin: zoning plan
[2013/12/17 18:24:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMmh. Ok
[2013/12/17 18:24:08] Lam Erin: it is just a renaming
[2013/12/17 18:24:37] Lam Erin: of the old zones or at least any changes will apply to the unoccupied land
[2013/12/17 18:24:39] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ok, so a rose by any other name is still a rose.
[2013/12/17 18:24:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So whatever is redeveloped, the zones remain the same, just under new names and conditions
[2013/12/17 18:24:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Tor, right!
[2013/12/17 18:25:02] Lam Erin: as long as the conditions as the same
[2013/12/17 18:25:14] Shep (shep.titian): LOL
[2013/12/17 18:25:24] Lam Erin: we can always call a cat a dog ....All we need is to get our cat
[2013/12/17 18:25:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2013/12/17 18:25:40] Shep (shep.titian): Any problems can come back to us lol
[2013/12/17 18:26:02] Lam Erin: I need to mention
[2013/12/17 18:26:13] Lam Erin: that the last comment about zoning is mine
[2013/12/17 18:26:16] Lam Erin: not of the guild
[2013/12/17 18:26:25] Shep (shep.titian): Who wants to propose the motion?
[2013/12/17 18:26:25] Lam Erin: I just thought about it when reading it
[2013/12/17 18:26:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, duly noticed
[2013/12/17 18:26:35] Second Life: Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington) is offline.
[2013/12/17 18:26:41] Lam Erin: becuaee i thought that while the covenats are3 reasonable
[2013/12/17 18:26:49] Lam Erin: the change in the zones could cause problems
[2013/12/17 18:27:02] Lam Erin: if for example somoene bought land to use for his business
[2013/12/17 18:27:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm fine in proposing a motion to approve the covenants, subject to Lam's considerations that there should be no zone changes, even if we don't have the final plan yet.
[2013/12/17 18:27:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry lam)
[2013/12/17 18:27:10] Lam Erin: if this land is redesigned as residential
[2013/12/17 18:27:17] Lam Erin: it becomes a problem..Done
[2013/12/17 18:27:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks!
[2013/12/17 18:27:37] Shep (shep.titian): And don't forget Bags' patio
[2013/12/17 18:27:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great job on the covemnants, Guild & Lam!
[2013/12/17 18:27:48] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[2013/12/17 18:28:04] Delia Lake: /me raises her hand
[2013/12/17 18:28:07] Callipygian Christensen: /me raises her hand
[2013/12/17 18:28:13] Shep (shep.titian): Delia
[2013/12/17 18:28:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Shep... good point... to clarify, the motion is to approve the covenants as proposed by Lam in public chat, subject to considerations as explained, blah blah
[2013/12/17 18:28:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (to make sure we approve the changes and not merely what's on the notecard)
[2013/12/17 18:28:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry Shep)
[2013/12/17 18:28:54] Shep (shep.titian): Yes
[2013/12/17 18:29:09] Delia Lake: right now, the LA harbor is zoned commercial, and the "town"--never was shre about that designation on LA--is mixed residential and commercial
[2013/12/17 18:29:16] Second Life: Kellie Wellesley is offline.
[2013/12/17 18:29:18] Lam Erin: (I dont expect it to be a problem by the way, I just added it myself for the purposes of clarity)
[2013/12/17 18:29:29] Delia Lake: the new fishing village is proposed to be residential and commercial
[2013/12/17 18:29:53] Delia Lake: but a fishing village must be on the harbor/water, not on a town street bordered by land
[2013/12/17 18:30:11] Delia Lake: so this doesn't exactly work to keep the covenants the same it would seem
[2013/12/17 18:30:34] Delia Lake: current LA http://portal.slcds.info/index.php/cds- ... oenus-sim/
[2013/12/17 18:31:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps Lam can clarify?
[2013/12/17 18:31:46] Lam Erin: reading the coveants on the three zones
[2013/12/17 18:31:53] Delia Lake: I would think that current commercial properties could still be used for commercial purposes but that the zoning for properties next door might be mixed when sold to a new person
[2013/12/17 18:32:09] Lam Erin: i personally only see problems if a parcel which is now commercial or mixed turns residential
[2013/12/17 18:32:32] Lam Erin: which I dont think will happen under any of the plans
[2013/12/17 18:32:52] Second Life: Malakyte Thorne is offline.
[2013/12/17 18:33:00] Lam Erin: a parcel which is currently commercial could become mixed but this doesnt pose problems
[2013/12/17 18:33:06] Lam Erin: it may be even better
[2013/12/17 18:33:35] Delia Lake: so might the proposed covenants be modified to reflect that?
[2013/12/17 18:33:42] Lam Erin: if no one residential becomes only commercial this may also cause some issues (maybe) but again i do not see this affecting existing parcels
[2013/12/17 18:34:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would that be a modification of the plan or of the covenants, Delia? I think that if the plan doesn't change the zoning, then the proposed new covenants can remain as they are.
[2013/12/17 18:34:48] Delia Lake: not a mod of the plan
[2013/12/17 18:35:00] Delia Lake: but of the just proposed covenants
[2013/12/17 18:35:06] Shep (shep.titian): I think we should push it through .. but remember that zoning needs a second look when we get building
[2013/12/17 18:35:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Shep
[2013/12/17 18:35:18] Callipygian Christensen: /me keeps her hand raised
[2013/12/17 18:35:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops.
[2013/12/17 18:36:01] Shep (shep.titian): Delia are you done?
[2013/12/17 18:36:03] Tor Karlsvalt: /me looks at Callie holding her arm in the air.
[2013/12/17 18:36:21] Shep (shep.titian): Stamps on Tors toe
[2013/12/17 18:36:36] Delia Lake: "1] Lam Erin: My only comment/clarificatin
[18:22] Lam Erin: is that as the plan has not been approved yet
[18:22] Lam Erin: you need i think to add when voting
[18:22] Lam Erin: that zoning wont be changed
[18:22] Lam Erin: from the current as a result of the plan
[18:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good suggestion.
[18:22] Lam Erin: I mean a parcel currently designed as commercial
[18:23] Lam Erin: will not change status to become residential and vice versa
[18:23] Tor Karlsvalt: You mean to grandfather a persons zone?
[18:23] Lam Erin: i mean that I assues that new zones follow the older
[18:23] Lam Erin: zoning plan"