Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

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Rosie Gray
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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Rosie Gray »

I've said for years that I think of the Chancellor as a kind of Mayor, and the EMs as the city staff. I am not sure that it would make much difference just renaming or rethinking those roles though. We still need to separate the 3 areas of responsibility so that no one person is too dominant. Probably in the other communities in SL where people cooperatively work to run their communities, you have one person who is the boss/Queen/owner; whatever you want to call it, and they assign and remove people from their roles as they wish. We can't do that without fundamentally changing our whole reason for being.

I'm really encouraged the past couple of years on how much progress we have made to clarify and streamline things. When I think back to 2010 when I first arrived in the CDS the laws and system was to me quite incomprehensible and VASTLY more complex than it is now.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Moonrise Azalee »

I think though Rosie that part of that is because you have been part of the process which makes it easier to understand.
I still feel pretty lost myself and it's been about 8 years :D

But like I said, I do feel that the way we do things is part of it's charm, and amazingly with less drama than many other places.
But there is also the flip side, that things unfamiliar to the general public can be a bit of a barrier when it comes to expanding the community with those other than just us old-timers who keep coming back :)
Regardless, I just think it's fantastic that these conversations about how to improve things continue on. It shows there is still much life left in CDS and that's pretty fantastic :)

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Sudane Erato »

Moonrise Azalee wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:24 pm

But like I said, I do feel that the way we do things is part of it's charm, and amazingly with less drama than many other places.

From your mouth to God's ear, Moonrise... may it be so. We've been blessed for the last few years with an absence of drama, and I'm sure all of us pray that this continues.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Delia Lake »

As a person who was Dean of the Scientific Council during the period of high drama, and am now Dean again after a number of years hiatus, I am very much in favor of charm with little or no drama.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Moonrise Azalee wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:24 pm

I think though Rosie that part of that is because you have been part of the process which makes it easier to understand.
I still feel pretty lost myself and it's been about 8 years :D

Absolutely it's because I have spent a lot of years here in the CDS and been involved in every level of government (except SC), and have learned how things work and thought about other ways that possibly they could work that I understand it. And, STILL, there are areas that I'm not sure about! It's been an interesting journey though. Absolutely agree that it's charming, and thankfully, pretty drama-free for the last few years.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

Excuse me pushing this „old“ thread to the top. But it is election time again and we are in fear of the no-show-crisis of state once more. What do we do if we find no volunteers for chancellorship and representing any more? Not to mention the question when we will have true elections once again?

The crucial point is to open ways for participation that are easy and lead to results the people can identify with, while they socialise and have some fun.

To fill the role as Representative is not exactly that ;). I spend my time pondering about flaws in the code of law and searching for the substancial issues people have. It is voluntary work.

So I am somewhat with Gaius in his interest to return to this discussion here from time to time.

What I would like to propose in the long run is an additional constitutional body: lets call it the „plenum“ for now. In contrary to the three branches the plenum would not be specialized. It would be the souvereign herself, while the RA works on the code of law, the Executive does the tangible work (run the biz, develop the regions, organize events, personal service) and the SC watches over the constitution, organizes the elections and possibly fills an arbitrary role.

The 3 branches could work according to the demands the plenum raises. It would be the ordering party of the state, articulating her requirements in a „We ask the Government to xxx“ format.

Qualification of single participants, quorum, decision making and so on would be technical questions to be derived from a selection of RL associations with direct democracy in place.

My therapy-dog club is an example, another excellent one would be the Liberal-Islamischer Bund e.V. (their paradigmatic statutes are online)

I see the day coming when we have to get along with a RA of 3 members - from then on true representation is more than questionable without additional means.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Almut Brunswick »

Hello Tan,

I see your point and share your sorrow about not attracting enough people for serving the community in a public office. But I don't see the way out in establishing yet another body like such a plenum. And as a common citizen who is allowed to attend the RA meetings and to claim her concerns there, I don't feel not represented or heard. The point is more to make the roles and their obligations more transparent (that is because I started writing this New Citizen's Guide). In the long run we really need to think of making the public government as a whole a bit more "slimlined". And furthermore I would like to get rid of these many unwritten habits existing in some heads which can be summarized as "common law". They are very irritating especially for younger citizens, so my proposal is: Either they are important enough to put them in an Act or they finally deserve to be scrapped!

However, there is another phenomenon which is really hard to fight against: the frustration of people who actually love to be in the CDS and even served in public functions in the past, but who have experienced at some point that there are - politely said - some conservative forces of persistence which hinder them of pushing things in another direction. Three current RA refuses to run for office again - that is alarming and it should openly ask for reasons. That can have multiple and also very individual personal causes, but just shrugging and continuing don't help out of the crisis. So the task is not only to win new citizens for public roles, but also to motivate longtime residents to agree in taking over some responsibility for the community again.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Brooke Brandenburg »

"Three current RA refuses to run for office again - that is alarming and it should openly ask for reasons. That can have multiple and also very individual personal causes, but just shrugging and continuing don't help out of the crisis. So the task is not only to win new citizens for public roles, but also to motivate longtime residents to agree in taking over some responsibility for the community again."

As one of the three mentioned by Almut in her post, I can offer this: a good LRA is essential and we had one in Lyubov who is efficient, productive and forward-thinking. She has spent much time and money trying to promote the CDS and not just with words! She created a wonderful area at LA harbor, filled with fun things to do and with beauty. If you know anything at ALL about me; then you know how much I value that over archaic designs and 'Olde Worlde" out-of-date textures and creations. Apologies to those who love them, but SL HAS moved on.

She worked tirelessly to create fun attractions that would hopefully bring in new residents. She has the strong beginnings of a most excellent marketing plan in place. She has vision and the courage to implement it. So, what happened? Did she find support for her ideas? Or were there those who opposed them for their own reasons. Let's be frank here; good ideas are not always met with warmth and encouragement in the CDS. Having served as the RA rep to the LUC I can surely vouch for this! I have seen what I can only label as ugly and unproductive behavior from some toward others who meant well.

There are those here who seem to feel that CDS 'belongs' to them. That they have more of a right than anyone else to alter sims, infrastructure and even minor items such as trees and holiday decor. No one wants to quibble over minor details. I will be the first to say that. But it's this image of the 'golden few" who are the only ones allowed to achieve these changes that cause the rest of us to finally say, 'why bother'? If you want more citizen participation, then include the citizens. It may not be not be enough to make a post to his forum. We do have group chat; why not use it for something more than announcing events? I do not see very many other posts at all.

I declined to run again. Perhaps you can see why. And for those who will take strong opposition to my post and my words: maybe you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes for a change and see how it feels!

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Sudane Erato »

Brooke Brandenburg wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:11 pm

If you know anything at ALL about me; then you know how much I value that over archaic designs and 'Olde Worlde" out-of-date textures and creations. Apologies to those who love them, but SL HAS moved on.

Totally fair enough. As someone who does love old style builds and spaces, it's entirely possible that other styles might be more popular... and most important, bring in new citizens. But we need specific proposals and people ready to step up and work. I'm probably classed among those perceived as the "inner circle", since I do so much of the building. But please believe me... I would love to share the work. I do enjoy creating new builds and new spaces... yes... "Olde Worlde" is probably a good description. But the fact remains that NFS is our economically strongest sim, and the city within the walls the strongest area of that; and it's style is distinctly "Olde Worlde". So I've always sought to bring that sort of unique character to other places we've created, in the hope that they too would be equally successful.

But if other ideas are out there, and other energy to make them real, let's DO THEM. Certainly nothing that I've added is irreplaceable... that in itself gives us a lot of area to try other ideas. Please... we need people to step up and DO things. Sorry, but you can't convince me that this "inner circle" is going to shoot down good ideas and shoot down a willingness to work. The overarching need now is bringing in new people... people willing to buy land and pay tier. We can do that by creating new and better builds and spaces for them to take.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Sudane Erato »

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Kyoko »

I meant to reply to Brooke's post earlier.

While I don't necessarily agree with everything Brooke has said, I value the clarity with which she said it. These comments are my musings, not necessarily a direct response to her.

Olde Worlde vs technically out of date builds:
Sudane's updating of many buildings in NFS has improved NFS technically, BUT in NFS and LA there are many technically dated buildings that drag our appeal down.

Inner Circle:
There is an "inner circle." These are what the Quakers would call "weighty friends." Their service to CDS is not in question, nor is their skill-set as a group. I want to be careful here as these are people I respect and count as friends. What I did find when I was chancellor was that this group does control more decisions than might be wise. (Just to be clear, I do not count myself as inner circle. I came in October 2015.) Part of this is, as Sudane states, we need new citizens to step up and contribute to the community by running for office and serving on committees and commissions. If one has been engaged in a project for many years I think one develops a fairly set view on how things should be, which can make it harder to see a new way forward.

Re: Lyubov
She was fully supported by many of us, including the "weighty citizens". I can't guess more than a bit of why she pulled back, but in these complicated RL times (COVID & political) the pressures are real. Yes, Lyubov probably took on too much, but when you value an organization such as CDS that happens. I wish her a peaceful break and hope she will return when she feels refreshed.

Tradition & Aesthetics:
CDS is 16 years old. The constitution and laws, more the laws, have developed over that time. Just as beliefs change in Real World governments (I'm thinking of the US constitution for one), there is a question of precedent and settled law. The distinction I am wandering towards is that there needs to be a balance between settled and changing. I appreciated the recent work that has de-tangled and updated many of our laws. But I have also noticed that this has been used by some as a way of changing the nature of our Representative Democracy and the balance between our 3 branches. Citizens, obviously, have the right to suggest such changes, and have them responded to and even adopted. But suggesting such major changes to the form of our government or the balance of powers should wait until we figure out what the Constitution and our laws, as they are being revised for clarity, say. Change can be a force for good, but after 15 years a sharp redirection would be problematic. And unless more of us step up the changes will be moot.

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Re: Amending the Constitution: Get Rid of the "Representative" in RA?

Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

As someone who might arguably be a "weighty friend", if a quiet one these days... I'm all for direct democracy. Ever since I was one of the people behind the Simplicity Party, I've felt like an awful lot of the CDS' process is playacting, like the Student Government at a university.

That's not to say there is no room for specific councils and working groups: we cannot expect every citizen to have an interest, or to have the skills, in a given area. At the risk of blatant self-interest, the SC isn't a bad example of this: yes, yes, it's the evil shadow-government of people who *really* run everything... or, in reality, it's just a group of people who have been here long enough to build up a reputation for consistent behavior and understanding of how the CDS is run and capable of checking any new decisions against previous ones for consistency with our principles. (There's very little the SC can do that can't be overturned if people want to.)

Land management, event planning, there's a lot of areas that once there's a general agreement as to direction, we can leave it to specialists for the details.

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