Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

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Sudane Erato
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Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Sudane Erato »

You have protected our community from the double scourge of (1) "de facto" alterations of our charter by the irresponsible election of an RA member to be Secretary of the NG, and (2) the "conflict of interest" of a citizen who would otherwise stand to greatly benefit herself by voting in the RA on matters which she herself as NG Secretary might bring to the RA. A fresh wind of righteousness sweeps through a now derelict "New Guild". God bless you citizens for your brave actions!

Rosie Gray was elected to the position of NG Secretary to provide leadership for the urgent issues of our CDS infrastructure. She was both well qualified and possessing of the necessary energy and willfulness to accomplish this. A simple waiver would have resolved the issue of her serving in two positions at once. You have tossed her out in an inappropriate vote approved by a wide margin. I hope you have some idea for an equally well qualified alternative leader, for without that the NG is gutted and defunct.

Sudane....................................

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Pip Torok
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Pip Torok »

Bravo Sudane,

The transcript is there for all citizens to read.

What it amounts to is an expression of collective insanity.

Can I urge all citizens, whether or not you were present, to read it and prove me wrong?

And if, by chance, you agree with me, do what you can to reverse the effect?

Much Madness is divinest Sense --
To a discerning Eye --
Much Sense - the starkest Madness --
T'is the Majority
In this, as All, prevail --
Assent -- and you are sane --
Demur -- you're straightway dangerous --
And handled with a Chain --

-- Emily Dickinson
(#435, 1862)

Pip Torok

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Arria Perreault
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Arria Perreault »

I think that my vote was right. My main concern was the conflict of interest. I can repeat that I have nothing personal against Rosie since the beginning of this issue. I just see the accumulation of power on the same person. Maybe it is fine to admit this for Rosie. The fact is that by accepting this situation we open the door for other persons to get several positions that have a conflict of interest. I was not the only one to have this concern that seems to be important in a democratic community.

About the future of the New Guild and the management of our infrastructures, we have to make some reflexions. I was very active in the New Guild in the past and I have the highest respect for what the New Guild is or was. It was the right solution in a period where CDS could have been considered as a community of builders. There were several good builders who were ready to spend time for the community. We have created several sims in few years. Now we don't have so many good builders who are ready to do such hard work as to build the walls of CN. Maybe we have to find other ways to take care of our infrastructures or to develop them. At the beginning of the meeting, several persons have pointed out how the missions of the New Guild are ambitious. Some people wanted even to discuss the mission statement of the New Guild and to make it thiner. The organization of the New Guild is complex. The Faculty has never functionned very well. We did not have adressed the question of the finances of the New Guild yesterday, but it would be interesting to know how it is financed. The New Guild is a NGO. It pays tiers for the School in NFS and probably for an other building somewhere (a villa in CN?). The New Guild had organized auctions in the past to raise money. On one side the NGO which should manage our infrastructure has to raise money through the citizen and friends of CDS. On the other side, the CDS has a large amount of money that could be also invested in this infrastructure. This seems to me not that logical. I think that we have to make these reflexions now, to see how we can manage and finance our infrastructures, our sims and our Masterplan.

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Patroklus Murakami
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

It reminds me of the orchestration of the impeachment of Alexicon Kurka, our former Chancellor. Spread misinformation, whip up a witch-hunt and then put down someone who is actually *doing* something. Don't bother thinking laterally about how to make things work, just get on your high horse about supposed 'conflict of interest' when... there's nothing at stake! Same puppet-mistress orchestrating the vote too....

Are you ever going to learn?

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Soro Dagostino
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Soro Dagostino »

I'll be a monkey's uncle. I finally found something to agree with Pat about!

Serious lack of concern for the good of CDS is reflected by the action taken against Rosie.

Soro.

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josjoha
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by josjoha »

If there is a desire for Rosie to have all these positions, then a "waiver" will undermine the rule of law - and toss out all previous deliberations, which may have more quality behind them then may be realized in a moment (I mean in general for a decision on law, any law), and which where made to envision future events. What you can do if you want one person to be leader of the NG and be in the RA, is to reform the NG as a Government department, which is what I was wondering about already because it has a monopoly position and is effectively an infrastructure department of the CDS Government. Then one can easily assign one of the RA to be minister over it, and dispense with the pretences of it being independent and separate from the RA, having a "neutral chair person."

Short of having made such decisions to change the role of the NG, I believe that it will be best to play by the rules as they where made for the time being, which seem to have sense to them and which where after all higher level decisions (about law, rather then about a practical single issue). The proper authority to change the role of the NG into a non-neutral Government department seems to me to be the RA ? That debate could then be waged as a debate on the general system for the CDS Government/economy (etc), rather then be pegged on one single practical issue that has tempers flaring (lol).

I note that the people who wanted to put the same person in all these positions have nevertheless claimed that neutrality was an important issue for them. By that token they have in my view made an illogical statement: either NG Secretary is neutral, or it is a 'colored force.' Secondly it was not addressed that there could be another person in this role to support Rosie. There was reasonable concern that someone may propose a new sim to the NG on a mandate crafted by the RA and that all that could be under some serious influence by the same parties - something that the independence of the NG principle seems to want to guard against or why else does it want to be indepedent. Although it is not an absolute power, it is an influence. Neither of these issues seem to have been logically answered, only by the repetition that this was a witch-hunt or against Rosie (which is demonstratibly incorrect since I think Rosie's builds are great and wish she did more including the Castle). The matter of it being a witch-hunt is refuted by the concerns for general law and the further future.

Hence the side that wanted to make this all one person, or to undermine previous law in the moment for a practical issue without showing serious reasons for needing it, that side has in my view failed to make the argument. Maybe they still could ?

1. Why is it necessary that the NG secretary is the same person as someone who already has the needed support to build ?
2. Why was the NG made independent, and how is this need now no longer important ?
3. If the NG should no longer be indendent, should there not be an RA debate about this ? The people who want Rosie in all these positions said they want an NG independence and neutral chair person anyway, by which they seem to have made contradictory claims for their position, imho.
4. If the NG should be independent, why not maintain that general principle against minor practical issues in the moment ? How hard would it be for an NG meeting under another secretary, to decide that Rosie's builds are great and should continue as before or even faster ?

I guess that the RA has referred the question to the NG, but without explicitly saying that the NG could become a dependent non-neutral part of the CDS Government. One could make the argument that the RA has left it to the NG on whether it still wants to be independent. Unfortunately the people that want Rosie in this position have not said that they prefer a depedent Government department as being the role of the NG, but they value neutrality and independence. That seems to make it problematic to elect the same person in all these positions, which threatens that very neutrality and independence. Had they made the reverse argument, that the NG should be a Gov department, then there would be no illogical statements in their arguments, and perhaps they should have won the vote for their cause.

If the CDS population is too small to support an independent NG with an independent and neutral secretary, then that is a powerful argument to remold the NG into a non-independent organization, I would think. Good luck in the RA to decide ? Then Rosie could be the minister over the NG, and proper procedure would have been waged on this issue with respect to the ground rules as they exist (which would then be somewhat altered).

Semi-independent is another option, without any considderations as to who is what in any other organizations, or explicitly saying that it does not matter.

best regards,
josjoha

PS Sorry for making this too long. But as a famous demagogue once said: repeat the lie often enough, and it becomes true ...

www.law4.org Constitution & Revolution, live happy ever after ...
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Rosie Gray
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Rosie Gray »

Arria Perreault wrote:

We did not have adressed the question of the finances of the New Guild yesterday, but it would be interesting to know how it is financed. The New Guild is a NGO. It pays tiers for the School in NFS and probably for an other building somewhere (a villa in CN?). The New Guild had organized auctions in the past to raise money. On one side the NGO which should manage our infrastructure has to raise money through the citizen and friends of CDS.

For your interest, Sudane has been paying the New Guild tiers out of her own pocket since it has not been raising any money in these past many months. Fundraising was going to be one of the first things I addressed if I was allowed to continue as the NG Secretary.

Perhaps someone else who is so concerned about the NG being 'impartial' would like to start paying its tier now, until it is reorganized again? Which one of you would like to step up with your own efforts?

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Rose Springvale
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Re: Congratulations to the citizen members of the New Guild

Post by Rose Springvale »

Staying out of the whole discussion re conflicts, and who should and should not be holding offices in CDS, but i will point out that Moon, Jon Seattle, and yes, even I have paid tier on Guild on properties in the past. And I have never been Guild secretary, but have held successful fundraisers for the guild. Go go ahead and hold one Rosie, you certainly don't need to be Secretary to do so. I'm sure Sudane will be grateful.

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