New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

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Ceasar Xigalia
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New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Ceasar Xigalia »

There will be a meeting of the New Guild on Saturday the 15th October 2011 10am at the School in NFS

I would encourage all to discuss, on the forums, the mandate from the RA to work on LA.

Please also see the notes from the last meeting (1st October).

If anyone has any agenda items please post them on the New Guild forum. I will publish the proposed agenda before the 15th.

regards Ceasar

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Trebor Warcliffe »

Following is a letter I wrote to our Secretary of the New Guild with some ideas I had. There is one issue I'd like to address that affected me personally and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. The last meeting I was unable to attend due to RL obligations. At the meeting someone made a proposal. This proposal wasn't on the agenda and had not been discussed previously to the best of my knowledge. The proposal was seconded, which made it an official proposal. Than a vote was called on this brand new proposal that only the people in attendance knew about and the proposal was voted in. How can we allow a few individuals to decide for all of us by not allowing all of us the opportunity to vote on the matter? I request as a member of the New Guild that unless a proposal has had prior discussion and all members are aware of the proposal, than a vote is held until the next meeting to allow all concerned parties the opportunity to let thier voices be heard. I leave you now with a copy of the letter I sent to Ceasar and encourage all interested parties to contribute to the discussion. Thank you.

Ceasar,
I wasn’t sure if I’d catch you online where both of us would have enough time to sit down and talk so I figured a letter would work better. I’d like to go over some ideas I’ve had in regards to the New Guild.

Your election to the Chair of the New Guild seems to have sparked a renewed interest in the New Guild, a positive result indeed. One thing I have noticed though is we are unsure of who is exactly a member of the New Guild. Any citizen who chooses to attend a NG meeting has been automatically eligible to vote. There is an official NG group; it is CDS New Guild Resources which was founded by Rose Springvale and whose current members, all listed as a CDS Guild Officer, are Rosie Gray, Moon Adamant, Dnate, Rudeen Edo, and Jon Seattle. Let’s utilize this official group so all concerned are aware of who is involved in the NG.

I noticed in the last meetings transcript the issue of tier for the NG school. Currently it is my understanding that Sudane has been paying the tier and I am not sure if she is willing to continue to pay the tier. The tier for the school is US$ 6.40 which at the current conversion rate would be L$ 1,600. I suggest we deed the school to CDS New Guild Resources and ask for volunteers out of our membership to pitch in and pay the tier. If 10 members were to donate we’re only talking US$ 0.64 per person. Heck even if only 5 of us step up and volunteer it’s still only US$ 1.28 per person.

At the last NG meeting there seemed to be quite a bit of confusion in regards to the motion passed by the RA on September 25th 2011 “to direct the New Guild to set the rebuilding of Locus Amoenus as their first priority.” As a member of the New Guild what I feel the first question that needs to be addressed is what exactly we are rebuilding. Here are the current facts concerning Locus Amoenus.
• LA is a full, double prim sim with a total sqm of 65,536
• Public land is 36,352sqm with 1,647 prims
• 42 private parcels equaling 29,184sqm with 13,353 prims
• Monthly fee payable to Linden Labs is $295.00
• Full occupancy of 29,184sqm results in monthly tier collected at $370.50
• Of the 42 parcels 27 are 512sqm plots and 15 are 1,024sqm plots

As you are aware there are citizens who currently own land in LA. What the NG needs to find out before any planning of proposals can be made is whether or not these citizens wish to retain their landholdings or are willing to relocate. As Secretary of the New Guild I feel it would be best for you to personally speak with these citizens and find out what they would like to do.
Citizen Parcels SQM
Alexia Carnell P. 26, 28, 29, 30, 31 4,608
Anna Toussaint P. 14, 15 1,024
Danton Sideways P. 10, 24 1,024
Fern Leissa P. 03, 07 1,024
Mikelo Serevi P. 37, 40 2,048
Mizou Vavoom P. 34, 36 2,048
Pip Torok P. 33, 35 2,048
Tor Karlsvalt P. 23, 39 1,536
Alexi Navarathna P. 09 512
Bells Semyorka P. 18 512
Lef Leven P. 27 512
Sonja Strom P. 32 1,024

Once we know what each of these citizens intentions are than we can start to put together an official proposal for a contest to rebuild LA because we’ll know exactly which parcels we will be possibly remodeling.

The next issue than is the stipulations for the remodeling. Financially speaking we need to keep the total sqm’s of public and private land exactly as they are now. We can’t afford to take away income producing private land and increase our public land holdings. This isn’t as difficult as it may seem, allow me to explain.

I believe there is a general agreement amongst the citizens that LA would benefit from smaller parcels. Let’s assume all current owners are keeping their parcels. That leaves us (3) 1,024sqm plots and (16) 512sqm plots for a total of 11,264sqm. The simplest way I see to deal with this is to make it a requirement with the contest that the parcels are either 256sqm or 512sqm. This makes the process of dividing up parcels a simple process. The results will be as many as (44) 256sqm parcels, as few as (22) 512sqm parcels and any combination between the two and still have the same ratio of public to private land so the amount of tier able to be collected will be unchanged from our current set-up.

I’m using the proposal you presented at the last NG meeting as the basis for the next part of my letter. Personally I would use this as a template and have the NG draft its own official proposal.
Basically this proposal consists of two contests, the first being a redevelopment plan and the second being a contest for the definition of the buildings. The opening paragraph addresses what we are trying to accomplish, maintain the Roman/Greek feel of the sim keeping in mind the need for an increase in low cost residential units, commercial development and leisure activities.
One problem I have with this proposal is “the contest will be open only to skilled builders.” The contest is for the development of a plan to remodel LA, not the actual construction of the plan once approved. Many of us may have the ability to come up with ideas for this contest but not necessarily be a builder. Why would we want to restrict the creativity of an individual? My suggestion is to open the contest to anyone interested and if the approved plan happens to be from a non-builder than the New Guild can locate builders to bring the plan into existence. Also the requirement of using and modifying the attached scale model also limits who may participate in the contest.

Criteria of participation – I agree that the widest participation is needed and should not be limited to just CDS citizens. Keep in mind those builders who submit a proposal may also be the builder who works on the project in-world but that is a separate issue. The contest is for the redevelopment plan only and all rights to that plan must be given to the New Guild whether or not the contestant turns out to be the builder or not.

Promotion of the contest – Have the New Guild make contact with various building groups in Second Life and give them a notecard to use as a group notice announcing our contest. Also try to make it a “Featured Event” in Second Life. I’m sure other NG members may have suggestions also.

Approval of the plan – This issue can be quite complicated and messy and needs to be handled with kids gloves. A lot depends on how many proposals are submitted. Proposals that don’t meet the criteria set by the New Guild can be immediately eliminated. My suggestion would be we leave the decision to all citizens of the CDS including NG members and RA members, no one is left out. Give them a top 3 option, for example let’s say we have 8 proposals, have all citizens vote for their top 3 and the winner of the top 3 is the winning proposal.
Prize for the winner – This is also a tricky situation. If the winner of the contest is also going to be the builder than it would be easier to work out a deal with them in regards to payment for the prize and payment for services. Obviously the larger the prize along with successful promotion of the contest should bring a lot of good people out of the SL woodwork. Other estates have ran similar contests such as New Toulhouse so maybe communicate with some of these people and find out what they offered as a prize. My suggestions would be between L$ 12,500 to L$ 25,000.

Budget – Obviously there is not money in the coffers of the New Guild of the CDS. That’s not a problem. The New Guild is going to have to prepare a few budgets to complete this project and then bring these budgets to the RA to secure funding from the CDS Treasurer.

First budget – This budget is for the promotion and awarding of the plan contest for the redevelopment of Locus Amoenus. Expenses such as advertising in some magazines, advertising on Radio Riel, advertising on the Second Life marketplace, and the prize money are all items to be considered.

Something else to be considered is the possibility that the second contest may be completed with the winning of the first contest. If the winning proposal is from a builder there will probably be a good chance the builder has builds either available or in mind to be used with their plan.

At this point the first budget is the only one that can be reasonably estimated. All other activity hinges on the winning proposal and who the New Guild will be negotiating with to put the winning proposal into action. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to present you my ideas, I am always happy to contribute to the thought process in the mission to making the CDS an even bigger success it has enjoyed in the past.

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rose Springvale »

The New Guild has always been (since i've been here ) what has been fondly referred to as an adhocracy. Whoever shows up is allowed to vote, so long as they are CDS citizens. No special membership is required to participate in the New Guild, a characteristic that has made it an open and friendly place for people to work within CDS without having to slog through all the rules that go with being in the RA, etc. Agenda's have always been fluid, and given the need for the group to re establish its relevancy after a long dormant period, it does not seem fair to try to add more administrative rules. Short answer... if you want to participate ... participate. All major issues that come from the NG go to the RA, so there is plenty of opportunity to be heard if you disagree. I think it is great that there is new life in the guild, and wish them well.

New Guild Resources is NOT an official "new guild" group. It was formed years ago when we had other land donated to the New Guild and this group administered and eventually sold that land. The "resources" part of the name was used to indicate that it was an asset holding group only, nothing official to the actual guild at all. Perhaps the people you've listed are also donors to the NG.

If the people paying tier on NG property no longer wish to pay it, and there is no one willing to do fundraisers, rather than creating more bureaucracy, why not just name the School (and other guild assets) as CDS public assets and drop the tier payment for those parcels altogether. It is more fair that the entire community cover the cost of these buildings as we do the praetorium, schloss, kirche, etc, than leaving them for "some " of the community members to absorb the tier every month.

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Ceasar Xigalia »

Rose,

Thank you for the clarification and support. Your idea about tier payments for NG property is worthy of further discussion. We will bring it up as an agenda item at the next meeting. Hope we see you there.

Ceasar

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rose Springvale »

I'd love to be there Ceasar, but my travel schedule won't allow it on the 15th. Happy to help where i can though.

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by josjoha »

Rose Springvale wrote:

If the people paying tier on NG property no longer wish to pay it, and there is no one willing to do fundraisers, rather than creating more bureaucracy, why not just name the School (and other guild assets) as CDS public assets and drop the tier payment for those parcels altogether. It is more fair that the entire community cover the cost of these buildings as we do the praetorium, schloss, kirche, etc, than leaving them for "some " of the community members to absorb the tier every month.

I agree Rose, it is both unfair for some individuals to shoulder these costs, and makes the "state system" incoherent because one could normally also not do this. On top of making the NG properties public assets, I think it is proper to pay back the funds retroactively - if the CDS would not go bankrupt from that at least. best regards.

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rosie Gray »

josjoha wrote:
Rose Springvale wrote:

If the people paying tier on NG property no longer wish to pay it, and there is no one willing to do fundraisers, rather than creating more bureaucracy, why not just name the School (and other guild assets) as CDS public assets and drop the tier payment for those parcels altogether. It is more fair that the entire community cover the cost of these buildings as we do the praetorium, schloss, kirche, etc, than leaving them for "some " of the community members to absorb the tier every month.

I agree Rose, it is both unfair for some individuals to shoulder these costs, and makes the "state system" incoherent because one could normally also not do this. On top of making the NG properties public assets, I think it is proper to pay back the funds retroactively - if the CDS would not go bankrupt from that at least. best regards.

I too agree that this idea about the NG school tier being covered as a public asset makes good sense. It seems silly to me that with the huge bank account that the CDS enjoys, that covering the cost of this is left to the vagaries of whomever might feel inclined to pick up the tab. If there is agreement reached during the NG meeting I will bring it to the RA as a motion to be considered.

However, I do think that the NG still needs to do some fundraising. It would provide monies to pay for sim enhancements on the smaller scale when items need to be purchased, and also raise the profile of both the NG and the CDS as a whole.

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rosie Gray »

Ceasar; would you please add "New Guild Tier Expense" to the Agenda for Oct. 15th. Thanks.

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rose Springvale »

Rosie,
I couldn't agree more that CDS should be spending its money on itself... but disagree that NG should do fundraising to buy improvements for the sims. Better practice seems that we should ask for a NG budget line in the overall sim budget... after all... the sims and their improvements are what we pay that tier money in for!

I won't be able to be at the meeting (i'll be on an airplane then) but would ask that the NG, while considering this issue, determine an amount to request CDS for on a monthly basis. Perhaps an amount equal to what NG people have been paying as tier for the last several years?

Since the NG exists solely as an NGO to benefit CDS.... seems to be the right place to allocate some of those funds, and will constitute less expense and more long term pleasure than say, any hour musical performance.

Here is a quick draft of some formal wording the guild may wish to work from:

The New Guild requests the RA to consider the following:
CDS L15-__ "New Guild Funding Act" The New Guild is a non-governmental organization formed and operated to benefit CDS. The organization is made up of all citizens who wish to participate and serves as support for long term sim planning, sim building, events, including Oktoberfest and other construction and reconstruction projects as are directed from time to time by the Chancellor. In order to be most effective and provide the best use of resources on behalf of the CDS Community, the following is hereby enacted, to be effective _____________.
1. All land owned by or for the benefit of The New Guild as of the effective date* of this Act shall be held as CDS public land and no tier shall be collected for such parcels. The land shall be owned by _____________ (group name)** The Secretary of the New Guild, the Chancellor, The Treasurer of the New Guild, and such assistants as each of them shall deem appropriate shall be given land control via the second life group. The New Guild shall provide a list of the land owned by the _______ Group as of the date of adoption, and any land added to this list shall be specifically approved before adding by the RA.***
2. The Chancellor shall include the sum of __________ L per month allocated to the New Guild Petty Cash fund in the budget of each RA Term, to be utilized by the NG to pay for such expenses related to its operation or projects not exceeding ______ L per expenditure. Expenses in excess of said ________L shall be approved by the Chancellor.****

Notes:
*The easiest way to handle this is to make it effective when the new term starts on December 1.
**The land should be held by a group so that the "control" can transfer as officials change and so that all citizens can see what land is New Guild land. At this point in time, I believe the School is the only property clearly owned by the NG, though the Villa of the Pines in Colonia Nova has been treated as such as well. I think Jon Seattle pays the tier on that land, and if that is still the case, it should be included on the "list."
***If CDS ever decides to allocate land as a sandbox, it makes sense that the NG administer that as well, which is why it is important to leave some flexibility to add land.
****Some agreement on what can be spent without bringing it back to the authority charged with budgeting is appropriate. I'd suggest no more than 2000 L... less than 10 usd... without getting Chancellor approval.

Hope this is helpful.
Rose

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Trebor Warcliffe »

It’s nice to see another forum discussion resulting in positive feedback and some great ideas for the betterment of the CDS. Rose brings up an excellent point of reminding us that the New Guild exists solely as a non-governmental organization for the benefit of the CDS and as such there really should be no argument against the government covering its expenses. With the governments support financially there should be no need for the NG to host any fundraising events. I think Rose’s suggestion of having the NG receive a monthly stipend from the CDS an excellent idea.

I will also be unable to attend this Saturday’s New Guild Meeting so I’ll provide a little feedback that I would have saved for the meeting. I think the quick draft Rose provided will do quite well for submission to the RA. I also agree that if it’s passed that making it effective at the start of the next term would make the most sense.

In reference to land owned by or held for the benefit of the New Guild. Since the creation of the New Guild, at least to the best of my knowledge, it has been assumed that Urusulaweg Viertel 2 2410 currently deeded to the group Land Verwaltung and commonly referred to as The Neufreistadt School has been an asset of the New Guild whether the tier was being paid through fundraising or donations from private citizens.

Villa of the Pines which are two parcels (R.07, R.08) in Colonia Nova with a combined 4,544sqm are currently deeded to CDS New Guild Resources which as Rose points out in her earlier post “was formed years ago when we had other land donated to the New Guild and this group administered and eventually sold that land.” I believe Rose is correct that Jon Seattle has been paying the tier on both these parcels. The current tiers for these parcels are US$ 29.91 a month. Under the previous tier structure the tiers for these parcels were US$ 35.00 a month. Even though these parcels aren’t deeded in Jon’s name I personally feel that ownership of them should default to him considering he’s been paying US$ 358.00 to US$ 420.00 in annual tier.

Till next time,

Trebor

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Sudane Erato »

Rose Springvale wrote:

I couldn't agree more that CDS should be spending its money on itself... but disagree that NG should do fundraising to buy improvements for the sims. Better practice seems that we should ask for a NG budget line in the overall sim budget... after all... the sims and their improvements are what we pay that tier money in for!

Let's set the record very straight here. The NG has never paid for improvements to the sims. It has ALWAYS been paid, by the CDS Treasury, for the sim improvements which it has done. And in fact, the NG has derived almost all of its income by taking a small percentage from those fees to cover its own expenses, which is really only the tier on its parcels in NFS.

And I strongly believe that this practice should continue. The NG is well paid by the CDS for the improvements it does. It does not need a further subsidy from the CDS to pay its tier.

I am apparently of the increasingly minority opinion that public land in the CDS should be paid for by interest groups formed to support the institutions which use that land. The NG is the only remaining public-interest group which continues to pay tier for the land it uses... the MoCA has not been paying tier for its parcel for many months. For years I advocated that interest groups should be formed to support entities should as the Kirche and the Biergarten, and the Schloss. but the ideas have never taken hold. The Kirche, in particular, should be a prime candidate for interest group support, since it represents a set of ideals which many people could associate with, and generate program around.

Instead, I see an ongoing steamroller of sentiment to let the CDS Treasury pay for everything, with the excuse that... after all... why not?... we have tons of money. That' fine... now, while we have "tons of money". But as with the ill-advised policy decision to lower tier (as predicted, we have run a loss for the past two months since its inception), those tons of money will run out someday with increasing number of policy changes which simply declare that everything is for the public good, so let the CDS pay for everything.

Elsewhere ( http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3539 ) I have generously been thanked for gifting the money to pay the NG tier for the last number of months. We should note that in the same fashion, Jon Seattle has been paying a much larger tier on the NG sandbox parcels in CN. But more importantly, for me at least, this is not a "warm and fuzzy" thing. I believe firmly that institutions operating and managed by interest groups should have their tier paid by those interest groups. And even if I hold an increasingly minority opinion, I'll put my money where my mouth is.

There is no reason at all that the public at large cannot support these institutions by contributing to their fund-raisers or tipping at their events, or, in the case of the NG, paying commissions on work performed by the organization. All very appropriate ways for the public to support these interest groups, each of which should pay their fair share of community tier. To take the easy path of saying... sure... the CDS has lots of money, let the Treasury pay their expenses, is the height of financial irresponsibility.

Sudane................................

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rose Springvale »

Sudane Erato wrote:

There is no reason at all that the public at large cannot support these institutions by contributing to their fund-raisers or tipping at their events, or, in the case of the NG, paying commissions on work performed by the organization. All very appropriate ways for the public to support these interest groups, each of which should pay their fair share of community tier. To take the easy path of saying... sure... the CDS has lots of money, let the Treasury pay their expenses, is the height of financial irresponsibility.

Thanks for weighing in Sudane, and thank you for your continuing service and contributions to the community. Many people in CDS spend their own money on public things, and rarely get the attention they deserve, so it is good to see some recognition.

While I think your opinion is correct... for special interest groups. I don't think the New Guild is one of those groups... or at least it has never been represented as such. What would its "special interest" be? Building and maintaining the sims that we all enjoy? So why should it be something we are asked to contribute to in addition to the tier that we pay so that we may enjoy the sims built and maintained?

I see it very differently from the Moca or Kirche or Monastery, all who have specific purposes. And I also think it is the height of financial responsibility to USE the money we have collected to make our project better. Depending on donations, fundraisers and (shudders) tips to keep the organization charged with this job seems much more irresponsible to me.

But one last point.. WHAT should we spend these massive reserves on? If the point is to keep enough money to keep CDS afloat ad infinitum, whether there are people still living and working in CDS or not (and thus paying tier which continues to support them) then i have to strongly disagree. If CDS gets to the point where it cannot pay its bills and has too little in reserve to cover them, then the obvious conclusion is that CDS is no longer a viable project. I don't think it will ever get there, because i think the RA and the citizens of CDS will make the hard choices if they need to to maintain the project, without jeopardy. And clearly, there are people, like Sudane, who will chip in to keep it afloat.But two months losss after 7 years of gains? Insignificant. I see fiscal responsibility in decisions finally being made that are more than just "we don't ever spend our reserves." Being grateful to contributors really isn't appropriate when we all pay "taxes" is it?

I'd love to see a long term plan for these funds. I'd like to see just how many donations we need to make to keep CDS working the way that is foreseen by Sudane's post.

Warm and fuzzy really doesn't have a place in finance, does it?

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Sudane Erato »

Rose Springvale wrote:

So why should it be something we are asked to contribute to in addition to the tier that we pay so that we may enjoy the sims built and maintained?

*sigh*

Do I really need to quote myself here?

Sudane Erato wrote:

Let's set the record very straight here. The NG has never paid for improvements to the sims. It has ALWAYS been paid, by the CDS Treasury, for the sim improvements which it has done. And in fact, the NG has derived almost all of its income by taking a small percentage from those fees to cover its own expenses, which is really only the tier on its parcels in NFS.

Sudane............................

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Ceasar Xigalia »

As I mentioned earlier I will add this to the agenda for Saturday. Expect a lively debate.

Ceasar

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Re: New Guild meeting 10am 15th October

Post by Rose Springvale »

Sudane... sighs notwithstanding, the current issue is why you, as a private citizen, should be paying tier, generous as it is, for something the CDS can afford to pay for itself. The point here is not how much the NG owes, but how we spend the money that we pay in for just this purpose.

I would rather have our jointly collected money, which is earmarked for the sims, pay our bills. Then those contributions can be directed at the special interests you so rightly identify.

The fact is that the NG did have money for some time... and then it went dormant. Apparently when that happened you took on the payment of the tier yourself. If the issue had recieved the attention it should have, perhaps the NG would have been active earlier, when people became aware that we were all paying for its tier. An accounting of the NG money, posted regularly, would also have alerted us to the deficit. Without information, the community doesn't have the option to act, and regardless of altruistic motives, we should have the information and be able to make decisions based on fact and not sentiment.

Sorry i will miss the meeting. I hope there are others who are willing to stand up for the principle of CDS paying its own bills with its own money.

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