SC meeting April 26-21 8.00 AM SLT - transcript

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Callipygian
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SC meeting April 26-21 8.00 AM SLT - transcript

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Transcript of SC meeting Sunday May 26.
SC members present: Delia Lake, Lilith Ivory and Callipygian Christensen.
Citizens present (various times) Almut Brunswick, Rosie Gray, Kyoko Furse-Barzane

[08:02] Delia Lake: We are quorate, I don't see anyone else online right now who would be joining us, so let's start

[08:04] Delia Lake: well, we only have a single agenda item today. that's elections and by-elections

[08:05] Delia Lake: first I want to apologize for not doing what I said I would do, and that is post to the SC discussion section about this. RL has been so busy for me that by the end of the evening when I have time, all I want to do is go to bed.
[08:06] Delia Lake: we do already have from December though the relevant laws posted there
[08:08] Delia Lake: so I guess we have 2 tasks. 1 is to give some recommendations to the RA for changes in the current laws, and 2 is to set our policies for handling by-elections for the parts that fall to us
[08:08] Delia Lake: are there other aspects that you think we need to discuss and decide?
[08:09] Lilith Ivory: I would like to give two suggestions to our current election if I may :)
[08:10] Delia Lake: yes please, and Lil, thank you for attending the RA meeting yesterday and speaking up. The transcript isn't posted of that meeting yet
[08:10] Delia Lake: but Almut told me
[08:11] Lilith Ivory: thank you Delia :)
[08:11] Almut Brunswick: Just repeat your to-do list here, Lilith, because it was very constructive
[08:11] Lilith Ivory: first I would like to suggest to send out a group note about how to declare as a candidate
[08:11] Lilith Ivory: I see you have posted it on the forum but I didn´t see it inworld
[08:12] Lilith Ivory: and most of our new citizens might have no clue how to declare
[08:12] Delia Lake: I did post inworld but can do that again
[08:12] Lilith Ivory: oh, I ´might have missed it
[08:13] Almut Brunswick: (and just do it several times. Not all people go back in the group notes history)
[08:13] Delia Lake: good idea. many people may have missed it
[08:13] Lilith Ivory: and second I would like to suggest to announce a candidate as soon as she/he declares as it raises awareness we haven an election and is a good advertisement that might make others declare too :)
[08:13] Lilith Ivory: done
[08:14] Delia Lake: yes. so far Almut is the only one who has sent me a nc and I just came in this morning so I will post that today
[08:15] Lilith Ivory: great, thank you Delia
[08:16] Delia Lake: What recommendations and guidelines did you offer at yesterday's RA meeting, Lil?
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: I was saying that in my opinion making an amendment to the by-election act that deals with the situation when we don´t have enough candidates to fill the seats for RA
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: I had three points:
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: 1. decide when to call by-elections
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: 2. which census to use
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: 3 do we want only one by-election or more
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: I think that was it :)
[08:19] Delia Lake: ok
[08:19] Delia Lake: so might we offer a little further information about those points?
[08:20] Almut Brunswick raises her hand
[08:21] Delia Lake: 1. when to call by-elections can have a not earlier than date because there are requirements in laws for citizenship for voting
[08:21] Delia Lake: yes, Almut?
[08:21] Almut Brunswick: We agreed that I shall prepare a draft for the act amendment as soon as possible in the Forum, so that we quickly can discuss it and ideally vote for it before the election takes place.
[08:22] Delia Lake: yes that is good
[08:22] Almut Brunswick: It would ease the procedure when you watch the discussion and intervene when you see a reason for it
[08:22] Almut Brunswick: Done
[08:22] Callipygian Christensen: We could , without a need for law change I think, choose to extend the time to declare
[08:23] Callipygian Christensen: *declare
[08:23] Lilith Ivory: thats a very good idea
[08:23] Delia Lake: I am thinking though that we can give you a few more guidelines so that what the RA decides will be consistent with the Constitution and also not violate or ignore any other existing laws
[08:23] Almut Brunswick: That would be even better for me, Delia
[08:24] Delia Lake: yes we could extend the time to declare. that is up to the SC to set some of those dates
[08:24] Almut Brunswick: However, I could start preparing something and also ask back when I see a conflict somewhere
[08:24] Delia Lake: btw, I finally did make a new spreadsheet and invited you, Calli and Lil, to edit it
[08:25] Delia Lake: that would be good also, Almut
[08:25] Lilith Ivory: Great Delia as we are running out of election timelines :)
[08:25] Delia Lake: yes
[08:28] Callipygian Christensen: The only specific mentioned in the Constitution is the date and time of the opening and closing of polls.
[08:30] Delia Lake: Yes, Calli. All the rest of the dates are what is set by the SC in fulfilling our responsibility to conduct the elections.
[08:31] Lilith Ivory: I very much like the idea of extending the deadline to declare as much as possible
[08:31] Lilith Ivory: but if we get more than 5 candidates in this extended period we are in trouble as we need some time to collect emails
[08:31] Callipygian Christensen: Currently the laws specify only one by-election and then the seat is left vacant - is the inclination of the RA to change that?
[08:32] Almut Brunswick raises hand
[08:32] Delia Lake: Yes, Almut?
[08:32] Almut Brunswick: We talked about this minimum size of RA last time here
[08:32] MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Entering chat range: Samara Barzane (10m)
[08:32] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith - it can only be a one week extension, basiclly allowing someone to declare during the campaign period
[08:33] Almut Brunswick: And this is something we should consider in the context of the by-election question, too
[08:33] Lilith Ivory nods
[08:33] MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Entering chat range: Rosie Gray (19m)
[08:34] Almut Brunswick: So we need to consider the first "classic" case that not enough qualified people are running for the RA
[08:34] Delia Lake: a number of years ago CDS citizens had decided that 3 was the minimum number of members for a functioning RA
[08:34] Almut Brunswick: meains: we have less than 5 but more than 3 candidates
[08:34] Almut Brunswick: then we could run the by-election as stated in the current law
[08:35] Delia Lake: It was also discussed and decided that the RA should officially always be an odd number of members
[08:35] Almut Brunswick: the question is: Shall we run a second by-election when we can sit at least three RA (= minimum RA) and if so, under which conditins (new census, time frame etc.)?
[08:35] Almut Brunswick: done
[08:36] Lilith Ivory: the problem is that as long as the constitution says the RA has 5 members a 3 member RA will not be able to change the constitution
[08:36] Delia Lake: technically, 3 RA members is a functional RA
[08:36] Lilith Ivory: but 3 dont have a 2/3 majority of 5
[08:37] Delia Lake: no. 3 is only a simple majority
[08:37] Lilith Ivory: 4 would be needed for a constitutional amendment
[08:37] Delia Lake: yes. so that means that a 3 person RA right now could not amend the constitution for any reason
[08:37] Lilith Ivory: not sure if this is bad :)
[08:38] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) agrees with Lilith
[08:38] Callipygian Christensen: imo that means 'no change to the Constiution in that term' - for me this is about citizen apathy - I think if we post, when offfering the first and final byelection notices 'Here is what a 3 person RA cannot do' then it falls to citizens to decide if that is acceptable to them.and frankly for many of them that would be just fine.
[08:39] Delia Lake: imo, running multiple by-elections would have worse consequences than the RA being unable to amend the constitution during that term
[08:39] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[08:39] Almut Brunswick raises hand again
[08:39] Lilith Ivory: the constitution should nopt be changed lightmindetly anyway
[08:39] Delia Lake: I agree, Lil.
[08:40] Almut Brunswick: Because probably the three-member RA will remain a longer-term reality, what about installing a sort of Natioanl Assembly made up with RA, Chancellor and SC to change the constitution in emergency cases thatthe RA is not strong enough?
[08:40] Delia Lake: and as I recall the 5 member number was set relative to the population of the CDS at that time and our population now is roughly the same as it was then
[08:40] Callipygian Christensen: I also question what changes between a frist and a potential second byelection - the only thing really being that a new citizen (or old one who didnt pay tier) can qualify to run - that too is not necessarilly a 'good thing'
[08:42] Lilith Ivory: in the past it often needed a by-election to make people declare as they didn´t realize more early they were needed
[08:42] Delia Lake: as you say, Calli, who is a citizen qualified to vote and to run can change during that time. when the current laws were written it was burdensome to run an ad hoc census. now Sudane runs them regularly so we can choose any acceptable census date
[08:43] Callipygian Christensen: Almut - there is an option for a referendum question on each election - I expect that, should there be a pressing need to consider a consitutional change, putting it to a referendum would be a good option and require a minor change to law.
[08:43] Lilith Ivory: I can even remember by-elections where we had two candidats for one seat all of a sudden
[08:44] Lilith Ivory: Delia, we just need to keep in mind that any census needs to be 28 days old before we can use it
[08:45] Delia Lake: so I think our recommendation is that the law clearly state that only 1 single by-election would be held for any term of the RA when less than 5 people declared.
[08:45] Delia Lake: yes Lil. that is the minimum timeframe
[08:46] Delia Lake: so that the census to be used would have to be at least 28 days previous to the seating of the RA for that term
[08:48] Callipygian Christensen: Delia - the law already says that - so really nothing needs to be changed
[08:49] Callipygian Christensen: "In a case where the number of candidates declared for the Representative Assembly is less than the number of seats, the Scientific Council may call for a by-election in an attempt to fill any available seat(s). Seats that remain open after one by-election shall remain vacant for the balance of the term."
[08:50] Delia Lake: but it does. the law for by-elections is a little confusing imo because it only addresses dates of census for by-elections when there are vacancies and those specified dates are 1 and 2 months after the seating
[08:51] Almut Brunswick raises her hand
[08:52] Callipygian Christensen: Yes, so I think an amendment to say 'if there are less than 5 candidates, the SC shall call a byelection on the day polls close' is the direction needed?
[08:52] Delia Lake: probably yes
[08:52] Callipygian Christensen: and build in a census done 28 days before that , just in case it is needed.
[08:52] Almut Brunswick: When we agree that a three-member RA is technically enough, but 5 would be the ideal, we could run one by-election as th elaw says and then remain with 3 people. We then just need to clarify somewhere that these trhee are enough. When we have less than 3, we should old a new by-election.
[08:52] Delia Lake: yes
[08:53] Delia Lake: to the census date
[08:54] Delia Lake: if we have less than 3 after holding a by-election after the close of polls for the regular election, we no longer have a functioning self-governing CDS
[08:55] Almut Brunswick: nods
[08:57] Delia Lake: so we have 2 different scenarios for holding by-elections. the first is when we have insufficient candidates in the regular election
[08:58] Delia Lake: the second is what is covered pretty well in our current laws and that is when an already seated RA member resigns or leaves. in that case though we still can amend the dates for the census to be 28 days previous to the vacancy and not wait a month later
[09:01] Delia Lake: so while we would only hold a single by-election for insufficient candidates, it would be possible to hold multiple by-elections if a sitting RA member left and created a vacancy
[09:02] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): within the timing parametters of the law
[09:02] Lilith Ivory: oh please, not multible by-elections if one RA member leaves!
[09:02] Delia Lake: yes. if the vacancy occurs during the second half of the term, no by-election would be held
[09:03] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) nods
[09:04] Delia Lake: no. Lil I doubt it would happen but it could within the realm of possibility happen that 2 different RA members left for different reasons. that would trigger 2 different by-elections, one for each seat
[09:04] Lilith Ivory: yes of course
[09:04] Delia Lake: that is highly unlikely but not impossible
[09:05] Almut Brunswick raises her hand
[09:05] Delia Lake: so that part of the laws would remain the same other than changing the designation of the official census
[09:05] Delia Lake: yes Almut
[09:05] Almut Brunswick: When the RA undercuts the numbr of 3 mid-term or later, it is not capable to work anymore. I would suggest to call new elections then.
[09:05] Almut Brunswick: Done
[09:07] Delia Lake: that's possible but probably not significant because the timetable for the next regular election would start only 1 week after the midway mark of the term
[09:08] Delia Lake: if that would happen then no new laws would be passed during that term and the Chancellor would continue to manage the estates as that person had already been doing
[09:09] Delia Lake: to give some concrete dates, the midway point of this term was April 1. The call for census for deadline to run for office was April 9
[09:10] Delia Lake: so it would make very little difference once the process has run its course
[09:11] Delia Lake: also, imo it is important to make the laws and policies as clear and simple as is possible and still have them functional. People should not have to struggle to understand them
[09:13] Callipygian Christensen: May I offer a somewhat radical idea ?
[09:13] Delia Lake: of course :)
[09:14] Callipygian Christensen: Other than census dates that need updating, what exists is pretty much what we've identified is preferred..one byelection, census requirements etc.
[09:16] Callipygian Christensen: The concern is with a 3 or less RA - so amend the law that says 'when only 3 are elected the SC will post an explanation of the limitation of a 3 person RA as part of the byelection process
[09:17] Callipygian Christensen: then create a 'Limited RA law that says 'in the event that the number of RA members is below 3, the SC can approve budgets, and in an emergency can put questions of law and estate management to the citizenry by referendum.
[09:18] Lilith Ivory: I like that idea
[09:18] Delia Lake: yes. a critical update is the specification to use the census date that is 28 days previous to the declaration of any by-election.
[09:18] Callipygian Christensen: I think such a situation is extremely unlikely - but it puts something in place in case it does
[09:18] Delia Lake: I like that idea too.
[09:20] Delia Lake: I'm wondering if it might need to say that the SC can approve maintenance budgets so that new capital expenditures would not be included in the SC responsibility
[09:21] Callipygian Christensen: I think that works - I just dont want to see a chancellor unable to do their job because the budget isnt approved
[09:21] Delia Lake: your proposal, Calli, would take care of ensuring that the CDS still had a functioning government
[09:22] Delia Lake: in the highly unlikely circumstance that there was no operational RA for the remainder of a term
[09:22] Callipygian Christensen nods - it could even specify that the SC will address things brought to it by the sitting RA members - so there is still a RA starting point for anything being considered
[09:23] Delia Lake: that's good too
[09:24] Delia Lake: having an approved budget for the Chancellor is critical to keeping the CDS going
[09:24] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) was without a budget for 6 weeks this term
[09:25] Delia Lake: being without an approved budget is a hardship
[09:25] Callipygian Christensen: Almut - when you suggested a committee of the three arms the problem becomes that the SC cannot pass laws and constitutional changes, then also be the body that approves them .. and since the Chancellor needs RA approval for some things, the Chancellor cant vote on those things - putting the RA back to inquorate. Sorry - meant to say that back when you raised it, but got called away and distracted.
[09:27] Delia Lake: having the SC perform a minimum maintenance role on a temporary basis I think keeps us within the important separations of powers
[09:27] Callipygian Christensen: exactly so
[09:27] Lilith Ivory nods
[09:29] Delia Lake: I do think this covers the current gaps in the election and governance process
[09:29] Almut Brunswick: Raises her hand
[09:29] Delia Lake: Kyoko and Rosie, since each of you has had multiple runs as Chancellor, is there anything you would like to say here?
[09:30] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): I'm comfortable with that minimal change, but defers to Rosie
[09:32] Rosie Gray: hmmm, I don't see any other way out of the situation either
[09:32] Delia Lake: Ok, thank you. Almut please, you wanted to add something?.
[09:33] Almut Brunswick: Yes. Thank you, but that National assembly would be a sort of emergency legislative then and not a regular separated power with the limited task to change the Constitution when the RA is not capable to do that. The separation SC-RA-Executive would not be given then. But again: Only for this emergency status.
[09:34] Almut Brunswick: Just an idea to solve the problem than urgent changes on the Constitution are required and the RA is not capable to dio that.
[09:34] Almut Brunswick: Done
[09:37] Callipygian Christensen nods - I think though that could be covered in the 'referendum of the people' if needed. There is seldom any urgency felt for constitutional change - the constitution still has outdated info from more than ten years ago.
[09:37] Delia Lake: My preference under that kind of dire circumstances would be to address a change in the Constitution by referendum put to the citizenry should any emergency of that significance occur. otherwise the minimal caretaking of the SC and Chancellor with input by an inquorate RA should be able to keep the CDS going until the next election
[09:37] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) agrees with Delia and Calli
[09:38] Delia Lake: Lilith?
[09:38] Lilith Ivory: I agree too
[09:39] Delia Lake: is there anything more we need to address here today?
[09:40] Delia Lake: It seems to me we've done the work we needed to do today
[09:40] Callipygian Christensen: Delia, sometime this week I could put together our recommendations if that lightens your load a little
[09:40] Delia Lake: thank you. that would be very helpful
[09:41] Almut Brunswick: I already took my notes, too
[09:41] Callipygian Christensen: I'll include a suggestion that the multiple chancellor laws could be amended/combined if thats ok
[09:42] Almut Brunswick: sure. Something for the next term
[09:42] Delia Lake: yes please. the less people have to hunt for or puzzle out things in our laws the more likely people will understand them and participate in the process imo
[09:43] Lilith Ivory: I agree :)
[09:43] Rosie Gray: for as long as I've been on the RA it's been the ongoing process to try and simplify and make more understandable the laws
[09:43] Delia Lake: yes, I know
[09:44] Delia Lake: as was attributed to Albert Einstein, make it as simple as possible but no simpler
[09:45] Almut Brunswick: Rosie has me for the bureaucratic sanding and polishing :D
[09:47] Rosie Gray: thank you, Calli, Lilith, Delia, for your efforts around this!
[09:47] Almut Brunswick: Yes, from me, too!
[09:47] Delia Lake: If we have nothing more for today, I suggest that we adjourn. Absent any unforeseen emergencies in the election process, I am thinking we can set our next meeting for Sunday, May 23
[09:48] Delia Lake: You're very welcome

My recording was prematurely stopped here, but further discussion decided on the next meeting being held on May 8th.

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote -- a very different thing.

Walter H. Judd
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