LUC Meeting - 15 May 2016
Members Present: Delia Lake, RG Cooperstone, Leslie Allendale
[2016/05/15 12:05] Delia Lake: does everyone have the agenda?
[2016/05/15 12:05] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): yes'm
[2016/05/15 12:06] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2016/05/15 12:06] Delia Lake: Aedan had something come up in rl so he can't come today
[2016/05/15 12:07] Delia Lake: does anyone want to volunteer to post the meeting transcript? if not, I'll do it
[2016/05/15 12:07] Delia Lake: and Han isn't inworld right now
[2016/05/15 12:07] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I can
[2016/05/15 12:07] Delia Lake: thanks, Coop
[2016/05/15 12:07] Delia Lake: Call the meeting to order at 3:07
[2016/05/15 12:08] Delia Lake: any comments or additions on the transcript Aedan posted from the last meeting?
[2016/05/15 12:08] Leslie Allandale: no
[2016/05/15 12:08] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): No
[2016/05/15 12:09] Leslie Allandale: move to accept
[2016/05/15 12:09] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): second
[2016/05/15 12:09] Delia Lake: thank you. Accept? yes
[2016/05/15 12:09] Leslie Allandale: yes
[2016/05/15 12:09] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): yes
[2016/05/15 12:10] Delia Lake: and btw we are only 3 of what should be 6 LUC today with Han and Aedan absent and Anj not replaced by the RA
[2016/05/15 12:10] Delia Lake: but we have work to do regardless
[2016/05/15 12:10] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I guess the incoming RA will need to get us one, right Les?
[2016/05/15 12:10] Leslie Allandale: Yes
[2016/05/15 12:10] Widget Whiteberry raises hand
[2016/05/15 12:11] Leslie Allandale: May I add a remark that is germain?
[2016/05/15 12:11] Delia Lake: so though I skipped it on the agenda, are there additions or deletions you'd like to make to the agenda?
[2016/05/15 12:11] Leslie Allandale: No, I can wait until new business
[2016/05/15 12:12] Delia Lake: ok. Widget?
[2016/05/15 12:12] Widget Whiteberry: Is there a quorum rule for the LUC?
[2016/05/15 12:12] Leslie Allandale: Yes,
[2016/05/15 12:12] Leslie Allandale: I am looking
[2016/05/15 12:13] Delia Lake: and there aren't that many things we actually have to vote on. When we are ready to send official recommendations to the RA or the Chancellor we will have to vote but otherwise much of the work is discussion, negotiation for consensus and actually producing draft documents
[2016/05/15 12:14] Leslie Allandale: I agree
[2016/05/15 12:14] Delia Lake: so we can function without a majority at least in doing the work
[2016/05/15 12:15] Delia Lake: so moving ahead on the agenda
[2016/05/15 12:16] Delia Lake: we have some but not all of the region reviews done
[2016/05/15 12:16] Leslie Allandale: How many sitting members do we have atm?
[2016/05/15 12:16] Delia Lake: 5 sitting members. should be 6
[2016/05/15 12:17] Leslie Allandale: quorum should be 4, in any case
[2016/05/15 12:17] Delia Lake: 2 Guild, 1 Chancellor rep, 1 citizen rep, 2 RA including a sitting RA member
[2016/05/15 12:17] Leslie Allandale: Or in this case 3.5
[2016/05/15 12:18] Delia Lake: lol we're missing a half a person then
[2016/05/15 12:19] Lilith Ivory: lol you should have made Andrew, dante or Brian a member
[2016/05/15 12:19] Delia Lake: on the region reviews, can we pull together key points regarding each region plus send a report to the Chancellor by next week?
[2016/05/15 12:20] Leslie Allandale: Yes,
[2016/05/15 12:20] Delia Lake: we don't have much left to do on this
[2016/05/15 12:20] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): should be
[2016/05/15 12:20] Leslie Allandale: I have been working with Rosie on CN, btw
[2016/05/15 12:20] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Delia?
[2016/05/15 12:21] Delia Lake: yes Coop
[2016/05/15 12:21] Delia Lake: I got yours just now
[2016/05/15 12:21] Delia Lake: I can post it to google doc is that would help
[2016/05/15 12:21] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I wanted to say a couple of things about that, if I may
[2016/05/15 12:21] Delia Lake: yes please
[2016/05/15 12:22] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): One is that my personal laptop burned up last week, and took my finished draft with it
[2016/05/15 12:23] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): two is I want to finish going over everything parcelwise, but as I said there are a lot of parcels in NFS because it is single prim
[2016/05/15 12:23] Delia Lake: yes. NFS is the most time consuming review to do imo
[2016/05/15 12:24] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): and lastly I don't know how the covenant violations I saw will be handled, since one of them is an older build
[2016/05/15 12:25] Delia Lake: I think we just have to note them for now. When a parcel chances owners, imo, whatever variance might have been granted or just grandfathered should not be carried over to the new owner
[2016/05/15 12:26] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): ok
[2016/05/15 12:26] Delia Lake: otherwise there is no point in having people conform to covenants
[2016/05/15 12:27] Delia Lake: any other comments on the region reviews?
[2016/05/15 12:28] Leslie Allandale: I was working on a spreadsheet format for reviews
[2016/05/15 12:28] Leslie Allandale: I think I have it in google sheet program
[2016/05/15 12:28] Delia Lake: excellent, Les. that would be really helpful
[2016/05/15 12:29] Leslie Allandale: Is it something we want to proceed with?
[2016/05/15 12:29] Delia Lake: I think so
[2016/05/15 12:29] Leslie Allandale: good, I can work on it this week and ping the commissioners
[2016/05/15 12:29] Delia Lake: it would make it easier for everyone concerned to track which issues have been addressed and which are remaining
[2016/05/15 12:30] Leslie Allandale: I think Coops comments are relevant to the other sims too
[2016/05/15 12:30] Delia Lake: I agree
[2016/05/15 12:30] Leslie Allandale: I have a question
[2016/05/15 12:30] Delia Lake: yes?
[2016/05/15 12:31] Leslie Allandale: would it be an interesting and useful idea for the LUC to train and use EMs for inspectors?
[2016/05/15 12:32] Leslie Allandale: two birds with one stone, so to speak?
[2016/05/15 12:32] Mizou (mizou.vavoom) agrees silently
[2016/05/15 12:32] Leslie Allandale: just a comment, soz
[2016/05/15 12:32] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone) agrees
[2016/05/15 12:32] Delia Lake: it might be. interesting proposal. especially since the initial reviews will be already done
[2016/05/15 12:33] Leslie Allandale: We can bring it up again in new business
[2016/05/15 12:33] Delia Lake: let's put this in our summary recommendations draft
[2016/05/15 12:33] Leslie Allandale: I have a couple of other issues that are important to get into RA
[2016/05/15 12:34] Leslie Allandale: Back to reviews
[2016/05/15 12:34] Delia Lake: yes
[2016/05/15 12:34] Delia Lake: anything else on the reviews?
[2016/05/15 12:34] Leslie Allandale: How extensive do these reviews need to be
[2016/05/15 12:34] Leslie Allandale: I have already discussed issues in CN with Rosie
[2016/05/15 12:35] Leslie Allandale: Who was sort of ho-hum
[2016/05/15 12:35] Delia Lake: not to the point of being picky imo, not now anyway
[2016/05/15 12:35] Leslie Allandale: KK
[2016/05/15 12:35] Delia Lake: but there are some glaring things in each region
[2016/05/15 12:35] Delia Lake: and that is reflected in the survey responses actually
[2016/05/15 12:35] Leslie Allandale: We can get the spread sheets to do the nitty-gritty work
[2016/05/15 12:35] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): My feeling is cover enough to be a little picky, but not microscope level
[2016/05/15 12:35] Delia Lake: yes, I agree
[2016/05/15 12:36] Leslie Allandale: How uniform do they need to be?
[2016/05/15 12:36] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): as Delia said, things that are obvious
[2016/05/15 12:36] Widget Whiteberry raises hand
[2016/05/15 12:36] Leslie Allandale: Can Coop get us his final copy for us to follow
[2016/05/15 12:36] Delia Lake: if we move on to the preliminary survey results you can see that how things look is important to everyone
[2016/05/15 12:37] Leslie Allandale: Shall we move on to that, then?
[2016/05/15 12:37] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): er
[2016/05/15 12:37] Delia Lake: Aedan's and mine are on google doc
[2016/05/15 12:37] Leslie Allandale: link?
[2016/05/15 12:37] Delia Lake: Widget, did you have something else here?
[2016/05/15 12:37] Widget Whiteberry: yes
[2016/05/15 12:37] Delia Lake: please
[2016/05/15 12:38] Widget Whiteberry: re using Ems as Les suggests, an alternative is to provide the Chancellor with information and leave it to the Chancellor to direct the EMs
[2016/05/15 12:38] Widget Whiteberry: AND offer to train them
[2016/05/15 12:39] Widget Whiteberry: um, just mulling here
[2016/05/15 12:39] Leslie Allandale: That keeps the luc above the fray
[2016/05/15 12:39] Widget Whiteberry: done
[2016/05/15 12:39] Leslie Allandale: ty, Widget
[2016/05/15 12:39] Leslie Allandale: It is a new idea for me
[2016/05/15 12:39] Delia Lake: yes. and ultimately is is up to the chancellor to decide how training EMs gets done
[2016/05/15 12:40] Leslie Allandale: But the EM
[2016/05/15 12:40] Leslie Allandale: EM's decisions could be reviewed by the luc
[2016/05/15 12:41] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): but the Chancellor has final say
[2016/05/15 12:41] Lilith Ivory raises her hand
[2016/05/15 12:41] Leslie Allandale: Decisions made by the Commission and/or its inspectors, plus any subsequent action(s) by the Chancellor’s Office may be challenged: a. By a petition of the affected party; b. In a format approved by the commission, including a requirement of personal attendance; c. To the Land-Use Commission; d. At its next scheduled meeting, or sooner, if a quorum of the Commission agrees to expedite the process. The decision of the Commission shall be binding on all parties, subject to appropriate appeals.
[2016/05/15 12:41] Leslie Allandale: so, no
[2016/05/15 12:42] Leslie Allandale: we have final Decisions made by the Commission and/or its inspectors, plus any subsequent action(s) by the Chancellor’s Office may be challenged: a. By a petition of the affected party; b. In a format approved by the commission, including a requirement of personal attendance; c. To the Land-Use Commission; d. At its next scheduled meeting, or sooner, if a quorum of the Commission agrees to expedite the process. The decision of the Commission shall be binding on all parties, subject to ap
[2016/05/15 12:42] Delia Lake: there should be an easy to follow process for assessing plots when they change hands I think so that we don't get eyesores grandfathered like has happened sometimes in the past
[2016/05/15 12:42] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Les, I won't take that bet.
[2016/05/15 12:42] Leslie Allandale: what bet?
[2016/05/15 12:43] Leslie Allandale: according to law, SC has final say, after luc
[2016/05/15 12:45] Aedan (aedan.charron): Greetings all. I apologize for being late but didn't think I would make it at all.
[2016/05/15 12:45] Delia Lake: yes. The LUC does have a say on the aesthetics and is the interface with the new citizen even but the Chancellor still manages the landuse and the day to day EM work
[2016/05/15 12:46] Leslie Allandale: wb, Aeden
[2016/05/15 12:46] Delia Lake: so perhaps we put this in as the LUC under our responsibility offers to train EMs on the building compliance with the covenants
[2016/05/15 12:46] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Welcome Aedan. We are transcribing
[2016/05/15 12:47] Leslie Allandale: Can someone give aeden transcript
[2016/05/15 12:47] Leslie Allandale: ?
[2016/05/15 12:47] Lilith Ivory: HI Aedan
[2016/05/15 12:47] Leslie Allandale: Exactly, Delia
[2016/05/15 12:48] Leslie Allandale: I intend to use my time in RA/luc to consolidate the relationship
[2016/05/15 12:48] Delia Lake: great!
[2016/05/15 12:48] Leslie Allandale: and fix my original oversights
[2016/05/15 12:48] Leslie Allandale: the best laid plans, you know
[2016/05/15 12:49] Leslie Allandale: The idea is to make "life" in CDS smoother, not rockier
[2016/05/15 12:49] Delia Lake: to continue into the survey preliminary results. hopefully this link will work and the results connect the reviews with plans for the future of Friedsee as well. https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-P9G9R32R/
[2016/05/15 12:50] Widget Whiteberry: I'll give Aedan the transcript
[2016/05/15 12:50] Delia Lake: in theory anyone with that link should be able to view the results
[2016/05/15 12:50] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I got it up to now W
[2016/05/15 12:51] Delia Lake: we've had 22 respondents so far
[2016/05/15 12:51] Leslie Allandale: And I agree that the comments to the survey are exactly what the luc is about and needs to address
[2016/05/15 12:52] Delia Lake: in conversation with Widget earlier today she suggested we might want to contact some current and former citizens who have not responded yet. we could certainly keep this as a work in progress while using each set of prelims to inform the rest of our work
[2016/05/15 12:53] Leslie Allandale: agrees
[2016/05/15 12:53] Delia Lake: Widget did make a nc of the people list
[2016/05/15 12:54] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I'd love to ask some recent departees why they left
[2016/05/15 12:54] Delia Lake: yes, me too Coop
[2016/05/15 12:54] Leslie Allandale: If they responded, they may not be representative of the whole, but perhaps of those who are interested
[2016/05/15 12:54] Delia Lake: I think we should do that and keep the survey open
[2016/05/15 12:54] Leslie Allandale: can I move, so?
[2016/05/15 12:54] Delia Lake: please
[2016/05/15 12:54] Leslie Allandale: move
[2016/05/15 12:55] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): we may have gotten most of the likely respondents
[2016/05/15 12:55] Delia Lake: second?
[2016/05/15 12:55] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): second
[2016/05/15 12:55] Leslie Allandale: If widget is game
[2016/05/15 12:55] Delia Lake: we may have but I see no downside in keeping ths survey open for now
[2016/05/15 12:55] Widget Whiteberry: Game?
[2016/05/15 12:56] Aedan (aedan.charron): No, not at all.
[2016/05/15 12:56] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): willing
[2016/05/15 12:56] Leslie Allandale: if you are in agreement
[2016/05/15 12:56] Widget Whiteberry: I am willing to help contact
[2016/05/15 12:56] Leslie Allandale: call the question
[2016/05/15 12:56] Delia Lake: to help with the lists, Widget? and reaching people
[2016/05/15 12:56] Delia Lake: all in favor?
[2016/05/15 12:56] Leslie Allandale: aye
[2016/05/15 12:56] Aedan (aedan.charron): Aye
[2016/05/15 12:56] Widget Whiteberry: but there are 192 people; I can't do them all
[2016/05/15 12:56] Delia Lake: aye
[2016/05/15 12:56] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Aye
[2016/05/15 12:56] Leslie Allandale: yay
[2016/05/15 12:57] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): on the list?
[2016/05/15 12:57] Leslie Allandale: It is up to your judgement
[2016/05/15 12:57] Leslie Allandale: I can help
[2016/05/15 12:57] Delia Lake: no, each of the LUC will have to do outreach but we don't want to step on each other
[2016/05/15 12:57] Widget Whiteberry: yes, but that includes about 18 who already responded. I don't know their names
[2016/05/15 12:57] Delia Lake: or 4 people contact the same person
[2016/05/15 12:57] Aedan (aedan.charron): Divide the list..I"ll take a piece
[2016/05/15 12:57] Delia Lake: true. the survey is anonymous
[2016/05/15 12:57] Leslie Allandale: Widget, can you coordinate?
[2016/05/15 12:57] Leslie Allandale: we can reach out to all
[2016/05/15 12:58] Delia Lake: people will tell us if they already responded
[2016/05/15 12:58] Leslie Allandale: if they responded, they might be happy to be contacted n person
[2016/05/15 12:58] Delia Lake: I agree, Les
[2016/05/15 12:58] Leslie Allandale: If not, who cares
[2016/05/15 12:58] Widget Whiteberry: If the LUC would like, I'll coordinate distributing names among you
[2016/05/15 12:59] Leslie Allandale: absolutely,
[2016/05/15 12:59] Delia Lake: I think that would be helpful, Widget
[2016/05/15 12:59] Widget Whiteberry: Delia, can you ask the other LUC members to participate?
[2016/05/15 12:59] Leslie Allandale: we will get the wizard to give you a medal
[2016/05/15 13:00] Widget Whiteberry: we will need a notecard modified for the purpose
[2016/05/15 13:00] Delia Lake: well the only other one is Han
[2016/05/15 13:00] Leslie Allandale: He is till there, isn't he? Somewhere in the Schloss?
[2016/05/15 13:00] Delia Lake: I'll talk with her
[2016/05/15 13:01] Widget Whiteberry: So, Aedan, Delia, Coop, Les, Han.
[2016/05/15 13:01] Widget Whiteberry: and me
[2016/05/15 13:01] Delia Lake: yes
[2016/05/15 13:01] Widget Whiteberry: as a non member volunteer
[2016/05/15 13:01] Leslie Allandale: Of course
[2016/05/15 13:02] Widget Whiteberry: Delia, do you want to eliminate the folks who have already responded?
[2016/05/15 13:02] Leslie Allandale: I think we might follow up with them
[2016/05/15 13:03] Widget Whiteberry: up to you all
[2016/05/15 13:03] Delia Lake: I think we can talk with them anyway. some of the comments people input were useful imo and I was thinking that it would help to hear more about some of them
[2016/05/15 13:03] Leslie Allandale: Something like " I don't know whether you responded or not, but we want to follow up ....."4
[2016/05/15 13:03] Delia Lake: yes
[2016/05/15 13:03] Aedan (aedan.charron): I'm guessing 7 of the responders are right here.
[2016/05/15 13:03] Widget Whiteberry laughs
[2016/05/15 13:03] Leslie Allandale: You think?
[2016/05/15 13:03] Leslie Allandale: laughs
[2016/05/15 13:05] Delia Lake: as we get more via conversations, how are we going to add and track this?
[2016/05/15 13:05] Leslie Allandale: copy past the chat?
[2016/05/15 13:06] Leslie Allandale: And ask whether anonymous or not?
[2016/05/15 13:07] Delia Lake: ok. I'll see if I can download the current data into a spreadsheet
[2016/05/15 13:07] Aedan (aedan.charron): Will we be asking them the questions or just encouraging them to take the survey?
[2016/05/15 13:08] Delia Lake: it would be helpful for them to actually fill out the survey but not everyone will do that
[2016/05/15 13:08] Leslie Allandale: I think a list of comments, with some consolidation of ideas, as we did in teh new sim commission would be helpful as a final report
[2016/05/15 13:09] Delia Lake: it would be helpful, yes
[2016/05/15 13:09] Delia Lake: this imo is really important information for shaping any changes we ever make to the cds regions
[2016/05/15 13:10] Leslie Allandale: I don't think the multiple choice was much help, as it was pretty flat, but we could ask the questions which had textual responses
[2016/05/15 13:10] Leslie Allandale: I can add the responses we had for the New Sim Commission
[2016/05/15 13:11] Delia Lake: ok
[2016/05/15 13:11] Delia Lake: to me this survey is confirming what I thought, that how the regions look is really important
[2016/05/15 13:12] Leslie Allandale: It is a graphical world, why would you come, unless you appreciated the graphics
[2016/05/15 13:13] Leslie Allandale: Oh, I forgot, the camaraderie
[2016/05/15 13:13] Aedan (aedan.charron) smiles
[2016/05/15 13:13] Leslie Allandale: but you can get that anywhere
[2016/05/15 13:13] Leslie Allandale: Graphics are important to get the best
[2016/05/15 13:13] Leslie Allandale: and make ends meet
[2016/05/15 13:14] Leslie Allandale: which is why we have the luc
[2016/05/15 13:14] Delia Lake: yes
[2016/05/15 13:14] Delia Lake: so we have next steps regarding gathering information
[2016/05/15 13:15] Delia Lake: once we each have a list, can we contact people by 1 June when the next term starts? because though many of us will probably continue on the LUC not everyone may do so
[2016/05/15 13:16] Leslie Allandale: I have the term terms, if anyone is interested
[2016/05/15 13:16] Aedan (aedan.charron): That sounds very doable and prudent.
[2016/05/15 13:16] Widget Whiteberry: Do you prefer lists in notecards or email?
[2016/05/15 13:17] Delia Lake: either works for me, Widget
[2016/05/15 13:18] Widget Whiteberry: I'll send email if that's ok
[2016/05/15 13:18] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): ok
[2016/05/15 13:19] Widget Whiteberry: everyone on the list is currently in CDS group
[2016/05/15 13:20] Delia Lake: thank you
[2016/05/15 13:20] Leslie Allandale: yw
[2016/05/15 13:20] Leslie Allandale: or was that for Widget
[2016/05/15 13:21] Leslie Allandale: who gets big thanks from me
[2016/05/15 13:21] Delia Lake: to you Les, and also a big thanks to Widget
[2016/05/15 13:22] Delia Lake: I would like to move on to the next topic as it is also important. that's Friedsee
[2016/05/15 13:22] Leslie Allandale: nods
[2016/05/15 13:22] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): yes
[2016/05/15 13:22] Delia Lake: the chancellor has asked the LUC to come up with a plan and recommendations
[2016/05/15 13:23] Leslie Allandale: No kidding?
[2016/05/15 13:23] Leslie Allandale: soz
[2016/05/15 13:24] Delia Lake: there are 2 essential components imo. 1 is that we cover tier and 2 is that we propose a redesign or modification that reflects what people say they like, and is in keeping with the rest of the CDS and fits for a homestead
[2016/05/15 13:24] Leslie Allandale: Just feeling good about us being able to move forward
[2016/05/15 13:24] Delia Lake: not a small charge
[2016/05/15 13:26] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): indeed
[2016/05/15 13:27] Delia Lake: Coop has begun the first part with a draft of a possible parcel size//prim allotment/tier plan
[2016/05/15 13:27] Leslie Allandale: I have some data if you would like
[2016/05/15 13:27] Delia Lake: yes please
[2016/05/15 13:28] Delia Lake: Coop and Les, could you please put what you have into the LUC > Friedsee folder on google drive?
[2016/05/15 13:29] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): ok
[2016/05/15 13:29] Delia Lake: in addition to what we are tasked with doing, we have some citizens who live on Friedsee so we need to keep them in mind as well
[2016/05/15 13:29] Delia Lake: Andrew came to our last meeting
[2016/05/15 13:29] Aedan (aedan.charron) nods
[2016/05/15 13:30] Leslie Allandale: I don't seem to be able to share
[2016/05/15 13:30] Leslie Allandale: let me see if I can find why
[2016/05/15 13:30] Delia Lake: ok
[2016/05/15 13:32] Delia Lake: under the circumstances, since Friedsee is occupied by citizens, I'm thinking the LUC should propose more than 1 alternative
[2016/05/15 13:32] Aedan (aedan.charron): ok
[2016/05/15 13:33] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): ok
[2016/05/15 13:33] Delia Lake: it's more work but it's also more trying to take care of people which is important to community
[2016/05/15 13:33] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): done
[2016/05/15 13:34] Leslie Allandale: What kind of deadline are we proposing?
[2016/05/15 13:34] Leslie Allandale: Sooner the better imo
[2016/05/15 13:34] Delia Lake: yes for sure
[2016/05/15 13:35] Delia Lake: otherwise Friedsee does not break even
[2016/05/15 13:35] Delia Lake: can we have options to present by 1 June when the new RA takes office?
[2016/05/15 13:36] Leslie Allandale: We need to consolidate our opinions
[2016/05/15 13:36] Delia Lake: yes we do need to propose and talk things through
[2016/05/15 13:36] Delia Lake: google doc works pretty well for that
[2016/05/15 13:37] Leslie Allandale: I can see if I can start the doc with a post from the New Sim public meetings
[2016/05/15 13:37] Delia Lake: and some of us have been using skype voice and chat as well
[2016/05/15 13:38] Delia Lake: that would be helpful, Les
[2016/05/15 13:38] Delia Lake: at the very least by 1 June I think we should have public posts on the Forum
[2016/05/15 13:39] Delia Lake: so people can see and even contribute to the alternatives
[2016/05/15 13:39] Aedan (aedan.charron): Yes, I would like to read that...and am not opposed to whatever means it takes for us to move forward.
[2016/05/15 13:39] Leslie Allandale: would you all like a summary nc of my public meeting survey
[2016/05/15 13:39] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): my proposal is in the folder now
[2016/05/15 13:39] Delia Lake: I think it is also very important to raise awareness among the citizenry as to what it takes for a region to break even
[2016/05/15 13:40] Delia Lake: ty, Coop
[2016/05/15 13:40] Delia Lake: I think that would be useful, Les
[2016/05/15 13:41] Delia Lake: in ensuring that a region can cover its tier there are tradeoffs. I think it's helpful to spell out some of the choices there are
[2016/05/15 13:42] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Delia?
[2016/05/15 13:42] Aedan (aedan.charron) nods
[2016/05/15 13:42] Delia Lake: yes
[2016/05/15 13:42] Delia Lake: yes, Coop?
[2016/05/15 13:43] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): The one thing is about it with Friedsee, the redesign is a Must, not a Maybe.
[2016/05/15 13:43] Leslie Allandale: Why?
[2016/05/15 13:43] Leslie Allandale: I agree, btw
[2016/05/15 13:43] Delia Lake: I agree. there is no way with the current layout to cover tier
[2016/05/15 13:43] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): That is it
[2016/05/15 13:44] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Those parcels were designed to be in a full sim
[2016/05/15 13:44] Delia Lake: yes, exactly
[2016/05/15 13:44] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Homesteads are a very different ballgame
[2016/05/15 13:45] Delia Lake: 3750 total prims, 20 avies at a time, and more lag than a newer full region
[2016/05/15 13:45] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): and the sidebar is you are right about void sims. They are designed to make LL money, and little else
[2016/05/15 13:46] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): with the lower prim count, you HAVE to take a hard look at public land.
[2016/05/15 13:46] Delia Lake: void sims are great if you're obsessed with swimming nude in your own LL water but thats about it
[2016/05/15 13:46] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): There can't be any fat or waste
[2016/05/15 13:47] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): you can make a homestead viable, without gouging the tier
[2016/05/15 13:47] Delia Lake: yes
[2016/05/15 13:47] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): the plan I laid out does that and keeps the pricing in line with the normal sims
[2016/05/15 13:48] Aedan (aedan.charron) nods
[2016/05/15 13:49] Delia Lake: no fat or waste on public lands + having attractive, aesthetically pleasing region says to me that we must include significant amount of LL water where no or very few additional prims are required. and that for Friedsee would require a design mod
[2016/05/15 13:50] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): the thing is you can cut some of the larger ones into smaller ones, but my primcounts are pretty much hard limits by my math
[2016/05/15 13:50] Leslie Allandale: fyi, a photo of my old proposal
[2016/05/15 13:50] Delia Lake: and if you look at the interests and concerns from the survey in reference to Coop's proposal there are some plots that have plenty of prims
[2016/05/15 13:50] Aedan (aedan.charron): I do agree that more water for public use is attractive, and reduces the need for vegetation to stay aesthetically appealing.
[2016/05/15 13:51] Delia Lake: those are my thoughts too, Aedan
[2016/05/15 13:51] Delia Lake: thanks Les
[2016/05/15 13:51] Leslie Allandale: It doesn't need to go to sea level to have water
[2016/05/15 13:52] Leslie Allandale: but imho, linden sea is cheap view
[2016/05/15 13:52] Delia Lake: but prim water is just that. it takes prims. LL water is prim free
[2016/05/15 13:52] Leslie Allandale: I agree
[2016/05/15 13:52] Delia Lake: and usable
[2016/05/15 13:52] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): and boatable
[2016/05/15 13:52] Delia Lake: yes!
[2016/05/15 13:52] Leslie Allandale: Do, why not a fjord?
[2016/05/15 13:53] Leslie Allandale: so, why not?
[2016/05/15 13:53] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): That was one of the proposed landforms
[2016/05/15 13:53] Leslie Allandale: yay
[2016/05/15 13:54] Delia Lake: were we to propose LL water that went from the south side of Friedsee through a fjord in Monastery into the lake there and on to the Rhenus we would have a good chunk of navigable water in the CDS
[2016/05/15 13:54] Leslie Allandale: I like that
[2016/05/15 13:54] Delia Lake: it would require lowering the public land on Monastery but that should be doable
[2016/05/15 13:54] Leslie Allandale: but means a bunch of terraforming in Monastery
[2016/05/15 13:55] Mizou (mizou.vavoom) puts hand up
[2016/05/15 13:55] Delia Lake: yes Mizou?
[2016/05/15 13:55] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): not a bunch bunch Les
[2016/05/15 13:55] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): The current water in CDs i snot really navigable at all unless you have a tiny boat, which is not attractive.
[2016/05/15 13:55] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): IMO if we were to make more water space it needs to be deep at least 2o m
[2016/05/15 13:55] Delia Lake: I have some small boats that are quite nice
[2016/05/15 13:56] Delia Lake: we may have to deepen the river yes
[2016/05/15 13:56] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Hmm for those of us who like the bigger boats it is not very attractive
[2016/05/15 13:56] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): it may be like the airfield, in that you can't land a 767 on it
[2016/05/15 13:57] Aedan (aedan.charron) chuckles "can try, though "
[2016/05/15 13:57] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Have tried 
[2016/05/15 13:57] Delia Lake: we don't have big boat space anywhere in the CDS
[2016/05/15 13:57] Leslie Allandale: nor will wew
[2016/05/15 13:57] Leslie Allandale: we
[2016/05/15 13:57] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): THat isn't our nuche
[2016/05/15 13:58] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): er niche
[2016/05/15 13:58] Leslie Allandale: I do have a nice row boat we could rent out
[2016/05/15 13:58] Delia Lake: I just put out one of my kayaks to show people. I actually do paddle this on the Rhenus now
[2016/05/15 13:58] Delia Lake: I have a public temp rez canoe that I had out for a while
[2016/05/15 13:59] Delia Lake: we have spaces for houseboats already
[2016/05/15 13:59] Delia Lake: but one of the things that we have too little of imo in the cds is activity spaces
[2016/05/15 14:00] Lilith Ivory has public row boats out now in CN and Monastery
[2016/05/15 14:00] Delia Lake: here's another of my boats. each is workable and low prim
[2016/05/15 14:01] Aedan (aedan.charron): I like the sailboat a lot. I nearly took out the bridge with mine 
[2016/05/15 14:01] Delia Lake: the trudeau sloop even has a bed
[2016/05/15 14:01] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): and we have lots of unused public meeting facilities
[2016/05/15 14:01] Leslie Allandale: too many
[2016/05/15 14:02] Mizou (mizou.vavoom) has more expensive tastes lol
[2016/05/15 14:02] Delia Lake: unused is the problem imo. that's one of the reasons we're moving the LUC meetings around
[2016/05/15 14:02] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): it's why I like my zodiac
[2016/05/15 14:02] Delia Lake: to highlight public spaces
[2016/05/15 14:03] Delia Lake: people can rent a houseboat plot to put a larger boat but we don't have the room to maneuver those really
[2016/05/15 14:03] Delia Lake: re the bridge, Aedan
[2016/05/15 14:03] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes the bridge lol
[2016/05/15 14:03] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): i tried
[2016/05/15 14:03] Delia Lake: perhaps we would have to replace the bridge with one that accommodates masts
[2016/05/15 14:04] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): or one that moves
[2016/05/15 14:04] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): like exists in main land
[2016/05/15 14:04] Delia Lake: yes a drawbridge that is lo prim would be great
[2016/05/15 14:04] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): if someone could draw it out I can make it in mesh
[2016/05/15 14:06] Delia Lake: ok. I'm sure someone could find or make a bridge design
[2016/05/15 14:06] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): then send it to me
[2016/05/15 14:06] Delia Lake: anyway, we are now at 2 hrs. I'm thinking we should wrap up this meeting and select a time for 1 more meeting this term
[2016/05/15 14:07] Delia Lake: we do have work to do in the next 2 weeks
[2016/05/15 14:07] Aedan (aedan.charron) nods "logs"
[2016/05/15 14:07] Aedan (aedan.charron): lots even.
[2016/05/15 14:07] Aedan (aedan.charron) laughs
[2016/05/15 14:08] Delia Lake: for those of us in the US, the last weekend in May is Memorial Day holiday. I don't know if that would be a problem for people for meeting or not
[2016/05/15 14:08] Delia Lake: I'm not going away nor do I expect family to come that weekend so I could meet
[2016/05/15 14:08] Delia Lake: but I don't know about the rest of folks
[2016/05/15 14:09] Aedan (aedan.charron): I am planning to be around that weekend.
[2016/05/15 14:09] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I may be
[2016/05/15 14:11] Delia Lake: Coop, what day and time would likely work best for you on Mem Weekend?
[2016/05/15 14:11] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): sunday is still good for me
[2016/05/15 14:11] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Good nite all and thanks
[2016/05/15 14:11] Delia Lake: ok
[2016/05/15 14:11] Lilith Ivory: nite Mizou
[2016/05/15 14:12] Delia Lake: thanks Mizou for coming and for input
[2016/05/15 14:12] Leslie Allandale: bye Mizou
[2016/05/15 14:12] Aedan (aedan.charron): bye Mizou
[2016/05/15 14:12] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): au revoir
[2016/05/15 14:12] Widget Whiteberry: I've a memorial 11am on the 29th
[2016/05/15 14:12] Widget Whiteberry: will likely be 2-3 hrs
[2016/05/15 14:13] Widget Whiteberry: just fyi
[2016/05/15 14:13] Delia Lake: Les, would Sunday at say 3 pm slt work for you? Coop, you can't do mornings can you on Sunday? or what would be your earliest on Sunday?
[2016/05/15 14:14] Leslie Allandale: Yes
[2016/05/15 14:14] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): anytime after noon slt is good
[2016/05/15 14:15] Delia Lake: so 3 pm is possible for all of us it seems
[2016/05/15 14:15] Widget Whiteberry is willing to be up at a frightful hour
[2016/05/15 14:15] Widget Whiteberry: possible, yes
[2016/05/15 14:15] Delia Lake: let's put that on the calendar then
[2016/05/15 14:15] Widget Whiteberry: where?
[2016/05/15 14:15] Delia Lake: and where should we meet? what public space?
[2016/05/15 14:16] Widget Whiteberry: FDS?
[2016/05/15 14:16] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): old bowl?
[2016/05/15 14:16] Delia Lake: that's a good idea, Coop
[2016/05/15 14:16] Leslie Allandale: put it on the calendar,
[2016/05/15 14:16] Leslie Allandale: I will be there
[2016/05/15 14:16] Widget Whiteberry: will do
[2016/05/15 14:16] Delia Lake: why don't we use the old bowl.
[2016/05/15 14:16] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): good question
[2016/05/15 14:17] Lilith Ivory: it´s not public land to my knowing
[2016/05/15 14:17] Lilith Ivory: and for this reason not all can rez there and it´s hard to get rezzing permissions
[2016/05/15 14:17] Lilith Ivory: and setting streams and such
[2016/05/15 14:17] Delia Lake: true
[2016/05/15 14:18] Delia Lake: we could meet on one of the lake areas of AM
[2016/05/15 14:18] Delia Lake: 2 have seating and we could add more
[2016/05/15 14:19] Delia Lake: does that work?
[2016/05/15 14:19] Aedan (aedan.charron): That works for me
[2016/05/15 14:19] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): somewhere in AM? yes
[2016/05/15 14:19] Delia Lake: I'll get a lm for folks
[2016/05/15 14:20] Delia Lake: anything else?
[2016/05/15 14:20] Delia Lake: or are we ready to adjourn?
[2016/05/15 14:20] Aedan (aedan.charron): I have nothing else.
[2016/05/15 14:21] Delia Lake: motion to adjourn?
[2016/05/15 14:21] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): second
[2016/05/15 14:21] Delia Lake: in favor?
[2016/05/15 14:21] Delia Lake: aye
[2016/05/15 14:21] Aedan (aedan.charron): Aye
[2016/05/15 14:22] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): aye
[2016/05/15 14:22] Delia Lake: thank you all. We’re making some good progress