Transcript of LUC Meeting of 26 June 2016

Announcements and transcripts of the Land Use Commission

Moderator: SC Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Aedan Charron
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:17 am
Location: Locus Amoenus

Transcript of LUC Meeting of 26 June 2016

Post by Aedan Charron »

The following is a transcript of the LUC meeting held Sunday, June 26, 2016. The meeting was held at the pond, beneath the falls in Monastery. The meeting began at 12:06pm and adjourned at 3:50pm.

The topics of this meeting was in formulating suggestions concerning the redesign of Friedsee and any effects that might have on adjacent sims.

Present at the meeting were: Delia Lake, Leslie Allandale, Widget Whiteberry, RG Cooperstone, Aedan Charron, Lilith Ivory, Arria Perreault, Sudane Erato, Rosie Gray, Ulysse Alexandre, Sudane Erato, Rosie Gray, Callipygian Christensen.


The meeting was called to order at 12:06 pm

No modifications or additions were made to the previous meeting’s transcript of 29 May 2016 ( ... 6abbd59494)

It was established that a quorum of the LUC was present with only one member not present.

It was determined to stress that the regions surveys recently conducted by the LUC are informational and suggestions only, performed in support of the Chancellor.

The agenda was accepted as presented.

OLD Business

Delia presented the sequence of events that brought the LUC to begin the process of formulating suggestions concerning the financial and topographic redesign of Friedsee. Namely, the conversion to a Homestead sim means there are now only 3750 prims available. Though the monthly maintenance fee has been lowered, the value of each prim has been increased.

Using screen shots in world, taken from the spreadsheet hosted at Google Docs ( ... =922623901), it was shown that currently, even with 100% residency, monthly tier could not be met for Friedsee.

There was much discussion about the options available concerning lot size, prim availability - both public and private and prim cost. The ‘bonus factor’ was also explained. Additionally, it was suggested that the cost per prim in Monastery could conceivably be decreased to match that being proposed for Friedsee.

Because the airport consists of public prims, there was discussion about reducing that count and the requirements for its physical location relative to the mountains.

Discussion then turned to the effects that any redesign of Friedsee might have on the neighboring sims of Neufreistadt and Monastery. Concern was voiced about making any major changes to Monastery that might possibly remove the waterfall or decrease the altitude of the mountain behind the Monastery in response to the suggestion being considered to slope Friedsee to LL water level in an attempt to reduce the number of public prims required to keep the sim attractive.

The LUC passed unanimously, a resolution that it move forward in the planning stage for Friedsee with the stated parameters of 14 parcels as indicated in the chart presented, with a bonus factor of 2 and with a price per prim of 0.0395.

Following the vote was lengthy discussion continued about redesign of the physical profile and features of Friedsee and any effect on Monastery which seems unavoidable if Friedsee is to be sustainable and attractive to residents with an increased prim cost. It is the great distance from the peak of the mountain in Monastery to Linden Water which seems the most attractive and useful way to reduce public prim requirements. In the discussion, two new suggestions were made to connect the water between the two sims.

It was agreed that before the next meeting, all attempts would be made to create models of the options being considered for evaluation. The LUC will use Doodle to determine the next meeting date and time with a goal of meeting next in two weeks.

The meeting was adjourned at 3:50 pm (3 hours and 44 minutes total).

Meeting Transcript

[2016/06/26 12:06] Delia Lake: Welcome everyone

[2016/06/26 12:06] Aedan (aedan.charron): I took my boots off but found I had no feet...and didn't want to waste time looking for them :D

[2016/06/26 12:07] Rosie Gray: I thought I would attend if I could (and it seems I can!), since my Chncellor's rep doesn't seem to be able to

[2016/06/26 12:07] Delia Lake: All LUC members are here but Gaius. I think he is intending to come but I don't wee him yet

[2016/06/26 12:07] Lilith Ivory: HI Arria

[2016/06/26 12:07] Delia Lake: *see

[2016/06/26 12:07] Rosie Gray: lol, Aedan

[2016/06/26 12:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Ulysse

[2016/06/26 12:07] Delia Lake: hi Arria

[2016/06/26 12:07] Delia Lake: hi Ulysse

[2016/06/26 12:07] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello everyone

[2016/06/26 12:07] Delia Lake: welcome to a lovely Sunday on the lake

[2016/06/26 12:08] Delia Lake: and though it could just be a gathering of friends, today we also have some things to discuss. land use in particular :)

[2016/06/26 12:08] Delia Lake: so I call to order the meeting of the Land Use Commission

[2016/06/26 12:09] Delia Lake: does everyone have the agenda?

[2016/06/26 12:09] Rosie Gray: yes thank you

[2016/06/26 12:09] Widget Whiteberry: aye

[2016/06/26 12:09] Aedan (aedan.charron): nods yes

[2016/06/26 12:09] Leslie Allandale: yes

[2016/06/26 12:10] Delia Lake: first order of business is the transcript from our 15 May meeting

[2016/06/26 12:10] Delia Lake: are there any modifications or additions to that? link is on the agenda

[2016/06/26 12:10] Leslie Allandale: I am happy

[2016/06/26 12:11] Delia Lake: transcript approved?

[2016/06/26 12:11] Leslie Allandale: so move

[2016/06/26 12:11] Aedan (aedan.charron): 15 May or 20 May

[2016/06/26 12:11] Widget Whiteberry: Do we need to clarify that survey reports were just that and nothing more?

[2016/06/26 12:11] Delia Lake: did I get that date wrong, Aedan?

[2016/06/26 12:11] Aedan (aedan.charron): (( I meant 29 May ))

[2016/06/26 12:12] Delia Lake: yes I stand corrected. the latest meeting transcript is 29 May. thank you

[2016/06/26 12:13] Delia Lake: if there are no corrections, the transcript stands approved?

[2016/06/26 12:13] Widget Whiteberry: Do we need to clarify that survey reports were just that and nothing more

[2016/06/26 12:13] Widget Whiteberry: ?

[2016/06/26 12:14] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Was there a question?

[2016/06/26 12:14] Delia Lake: what are you thinking we should add, Widget?

[2016/06/26 12:14] Delia Lake: welcome, Sudane

[2016/06/26 12:14] Widget Whiteberry: Yes Coop, at least one citizen thought we were making changes on other regions

[2016/06/26 12:14] Rosie Gray: Hi Sudane

[2016/06/26 12:14] Lilith Ivory: shouts: Hi Sudane

[2016/06/26 12:15] Sudane Erato: sorry for being late

[2016/06/26 12:15] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Sudane

[2016/06/26 12:15] Widget Whiteberry: rather than surveying all regions to create a baseline of information

[2016/06/26 12:16] Widget Whiteberry: I was not yet on the LUC, but perhaps we should clarify the meaning and intent of the survey

[2016/06/26 12:16] Delia Lake: so in this meeting that will stand as a clarification of the purpose of the survey and of the review reports

[2016/06/26 12:16] Widget Whiteberry: nods

[2016/06/26 12:16] Delia Lake: Aedan, can you note that at the beginning of the post of this transcript please

[2016/06/26 12:17] Delia Lake: now to this proposed agenda. any additions or changes?

[2016/06/26 12:17] Aedan (aedan.charron): Noted

[2016/06/26 12:17] Widget Whiteberry: No additions or changes from me

[2016/06/26 12:17] Leslie Allandale: nor me

[2016/06/26 12:18] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I'm good

[2016/06/26 12:18] Aedan (aedan.charron): o

[2016/06/26 12:18] Aedan (aedan.charron): no

[2016/06/26 12:18] Delia Lake: on to Old Business then

[2016/06/26 12:19] Delia Lake: as a preface, in the middle of April, the then RA voted for the CDS to take advantage of the price reduction afforded by grandfathering regions, and also to downgrade Friedsee from a full region to a homestead region

[2016/06/26 12:20] Delia Lake: that decision triggered 3 changes

[2016/06/26 12:20] Delia Lake: the price the CDS paid to LL each month moving forward was less

[2016/06/26 12:20] Delia Lake: $195 instead of $295 for the 2 full regions

[2016/06/26 12:21] Delia Lake: and as a homestead, the monthly fee to LL for Friedsee is now $95 US

[2016/06/26 12:22] Delia Lake: as a homestead though there were 2 other important changes to Friedsee. the total prims now available on that region are 3750, down from 15,000 for a full region

[2016/06/26 12:23] Delia Lake: and 2, the price per prim is higher. that is true for all homesteads compared to full regions

[2016/06/26 12:24] Delia Lake: these factors resulted in in the Chancellor asking the LUC to propose a redesign for Friedsee

[2016/06/26 12:24] Delia Lake: as the conditions on which the original design was based had changed significantly

[2016/06/26 12:25] Delia Lake: We have been doing that

[2016/06/26 12:25] Delia Lake: it is not sufficient to merely recommend design changes in the landscaping though

[2016/06/26 12:25] Delia Lake: in this case the design must also be driven by the numbers

[2016/06/26 12:26] Delia Lake: Widget has been tracking region statistics for the CDS for quite a while now

[2016/06/26 12:26] Delia Lake: over the past couple of weeks, Coop, Widget and I have taken a deeper dive into the options for Friedsee, with Sudane

[2016/06/26 12:26] Delia Lake: s

[2016/06/26 12:27] Delia Lake: help

[2016/06/26 12:27] Delia Lake: Widget had brought chart copies inworld and they are displayed on the boardwalk along the lake

[2016/06/26 12:28] Delia Lake: please do cam over and read through

[2016/06/26 12:28] Delia Lake: Where to start

[2016/06/26 12:28] Rosie Gray:

[2016/06/26 12:29] Rosie Gray: easier on the google doc though, maybe.

[2016/06/26 12:29] Widget Whiteberry: I suggest starting with the far left

[2016/06/26 12:29] Delia Lake: First, it is important to the Estate as a whole that each region cover its tier

[2016/06/26 12:30] Leslie Allandale: raises hand

[2016/06/26 12:30] Delia Lake: yes, Les

[2016/06/26 12:31] Leslie Allandale: What if a region was just a park, for enjoyment for all?

[2016/06/26 12:31] Leslie Allandale: It would not pay for itself

[2016/06/26 12:31] Leslie Allandale: So a region that is part park and part private would not it get a discount?

[2016/06/26 12:31] Leslie Allandale: done

[2016/06/26 12:32] Delia Lake: that could happen. but only if the RA passed legislation to that effect. that the tier on tht region would be paid for out of public funds, collected from the whole body of citizenry

[2016/06/26 12:32] Leslie Allandale: Yes, just a comment

[2016/06/26 12:32] Leslie Allandale: Theoretically speaking

[2016/06/26 12:32] Delia Lake: we only get to "keep" our regions if we pay LL for them each month

[2016/06/26 12:33] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Hnad

[2016/06/26 12:33] Delia Lake: Coop?

[2016/06/26 12:33] Leslie Allandale: no doubt

[2016/06/26 12:33] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I was going to say that it has to be paid for somehow, and it would need to subsidized by renters either way.

[2016/06/26 12:34] Delia Lake: exactly

[2016/06/26 12:34] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Done

[2016/06/26 12:34] Leslie Allandale: my thoughts

[2016/06/26 12:34] Delia Lake: Friedsee though has current residents. it is not a new region to us bue one where we have changed the state of it

[2016/06/26 12:35] Delia Lake: the current residents came to live there when the region was a full region

[2016/06/26 12:36] Delia Lake: and their plots and tier were set on that basis

[2016/06/26 12:36] Delia Lake: right now though with the changes in state, the current revenue from Friedsee does not cover its tier

[2016/06/26 12:36] Delia Lake: so we need to consider how to make that happen

[2016/06/26 12:37] Delia Lake: obviously we need to sell more land for private use

[2016/06/26 12:37] Delia Lake: but at what cost per prim and with what bonus factor

[2016/06/26 12:39] Delia Lake: for those who may not have looked before, each region has a bonus factor set. that is the relationship between the number of prims and the sq meter size of land. for NFS and CN it is 1.

[2016/06/26 12:39] Delia Lake: for AM and LA the bonus factor is 2. you hear people talk about double prim for those regions

[2016/06/26 12:40] Delia Lake: for Friedsee it is 3. that was set when the region was a full region and the intent was to have dense settlements with an expanse of public land, and enough prims to landscape

[2016/06/26 12:41] Delia Lake: that is no longer the case for Friedsee regarding either of those factors

[2016/06/26 12:42] Delia Lake: Monastery's bonus factor is 8. that means that the size of the plot is smaller in relation to the number of prims, or the number of prims assigned to a given plot size is more than it would be in other regions

[2016/06/26 12:42] Delia Lake: leaving a large amount of public land

[2016/06/26 12:42] Rosie Gray: brb

[2016/06/26 12:42] Delia Lake: questions so far?

[2016/06/26 12:42] Delia Lake: or other comments? esp, Sudane and Widget who worked on these charts

[2016/06/26 12:43] Aedan (aedan.charron): shakes his head "you've answered a couple of my questions already...will wait to see if you hit the next one" :)

[2016/06/26 12:43] Arria (arria.perreault): Only a comment from me

[2016/06/26 12:43] Delia Lake: yes Arria

[2016/06/26 12:43] Delia Lake: please

[2016/06/26 12:43] Sudane Erato: I'll confirm all the facts that Delia has said

[2016/06/26 12:45] Arria (arria.perreault): Regarding the bonus factor : it was part of the concept of the Monastery to have small parcels with "enough" prims and a lot of empty space to walk. It was also the reason why we choosed a homestead sim and not a full sim.

[2016/06/26 12:46] Arria (arria.perreault): The idea was that people have a lot of empty space to walk in

[2016/06/26 12:46] Delia Lake: And it does exactly that. lots of space to walk. and space for this lovely lake on which we sit right now

[2016/06/26 12:46] Arria (arria.perreault): :-)

[2016/06/26 12:46] Arria (arria.perreault): Done for now

[2016/06/26 12:46] Delia Lake: swimming and boating in the warm months and skating in the winter

[2016/06/26 12:47] Arria (arria.perreault): Exactly (and skiing also)

[2016/06/26 12:47] Delia Lake: back to Friedsee for a bit more

[2016/06/26 12:48] Delia Lake: not only was the bonus factor set reflecting the availability of prims on a full region

[2016/06/26 12:48] Delia Lake: the price paid per prim was set reflecting the prim cost on a full region as well

[2016/06/26 12:49] Delia Lake: but the cost we pay per prim for a homestead is double what the CDS pays per prim for a full region

[2016/06/26 12:50] Delia Lake: so leaving everything as is on Friedsee is not an option. we will not be able to generate enough tier to pay LL each month and we will have insufficient prims for landscaping public spaces

[2016/06/26 12:50] Delia Lake: one more thing regarding the bonus factor. it is set region by region. it cannot be set plot by plot

[2016/06/26 12:51] Leslie Allandale: hence prim lots

[2016/06/26 12:51] Delia Lake: this inability to cover tier is shown on the second chart from the left, column B

[2016/06/26 12:53] Delia Lake: at the same time since they had this change done to them and not of their own choosing, we feel it is important to take care of current Friedsee residents the best that we can

[2016/06/26 12:53] Delia Lake: we have spoken with each of them so that they understand the current conditions and options

[2016/06/26 12:54] Delia Lake: back to the second chart from the left

[2016/06/26 12:54] Delia Lake: look at columns C and D now

[2016/06/26 12:55] Delia Lake: each of those raise the price paid per prim

[2016/06/26 12:55] Delia Lake: and each of them have the possibility of covering region tier

[2016/06/26 12:56] Widget Whiteberry: notes 'covering tier' with a differing rate of sustainable occupancy.

[2016/06/26 12:56] Delia Lake: column D would bring the needed occupancy rate more in line with what it is for the rest of the CDS regions

[2016/06/26 12:56] Delia Lake: that's the bottom row

[2016/06/26 12:57] Aedan (aedan.charron): nods

[2016/06/26 12:57] Delia Lake: this lead to further conversations with current residents. and presenting them with cost vs prim number choices

[2016/06/26 12:59] Delia Lake: do you want to pay the same amount as you've been paying and have fewer prims, or do you want to have the same number of prims and pay a little more. as you can see from the chart, the "more" doesn't amount to a huge additional cost per month

[2016/06/26 13:00] Delia Lake: and it is our recommendation that the cost per prim on Friedsee be increased to 0.0395, to bring the occupancy rate needed in line with other CDS regions

[2016/06/26 13:00] Widget Whiteberry: raises her hand

[2016/06/26 13:00] Lilith Ivory: nods

[2016/06/26 13:00] Delia Lake: Widget, please

[2016/06/26 13:02] Widget Whiteberry: setting the cost per prim on FDS could bring that cost into line with the cost per prim on Monstary..

[2016/06/26 13:02] Widget Whiteberry: as well as giving us a more 'in line' sustainability rate. Done

[2016/06/26 13:02] Delia Lake: yes.

[2016/06/26 13:02] Leslie Allandale: raises hand

[2016/06/26 13:03] Delia Lake: yes, Les

[2016/06/26 13:03] Delia Lake: please?

[2016/06/26 13:03] Leslie Allandale: so, in other words, these residents get more space for their l

[2016/06/26 13:03] Leslie Allandale: done

[2016/06/26 13:03] Leslie Allandale: even if they can't control it

[2016/06/26 13:03] Leslie Allandale: done again

[2016/06/26 13:04] Lilith Ivory: hu?

[2016/06/26 13:04] Delia Lake: not with this part. let's finish up the cost conversation first

[2016/06/26 13:04] Delia Lake: on the next chart moving right

[2016/06/26 13:04] Leslie Allandale: their virtual space extends further beyond their property lines

[2016/06/26 13:04] Leslie Allandale: than in CN for example

[2016/06/26 13:05] Widget Whiteberry: Les, we'll cover that in the next section

[2016/06/26 13:05] Leslie Allandale: just a comment on what they get for their linden

[2016/06/26 13:06] Delia Lake: so if you look at columns G and H

[2016/06/26 13:06] Delia Lake: you will see current residents with the current sq m, and the number of prims each has

[2016/06/26 13:06] Delia Lake: and we are proposing additional plots

[2016/06/26 13:07] Delia Lake: 3 plots at 300 prims and 6 small boat slips at 50 prims each

[2016/06/26 13:08] Delia Lake: that at the 0.395 per prim rate will cover tier and if full have a max income of $123.24/month, in line with other CDS regions

[2016/06/26 13:09] Delia Lake: now, let's get to the bonus factor

[2016/06/26 13:10] Delia Lake: currently it is at 3

[2016/06/26 13:10] Delia Lake: that may or may not be what we want to do moving forward

[2016/06/26 13:11] Delia Lake: so we have discussed changing that to a factor of 2

[2016/06/26 13:11] Leslie Allandale: that means larger plots?

[2016/06/26 13:11] Delia Lake: partly because we no longer have the prims to have a densely populated hamlet as was originally intended

[2016/06/26 13:12] Delia Lake: yes that would mean larger plots for the same number of prims

[2016/06/26 13:12] Widget Whiteberry: Also, note the change in common or public land as we change the bonus factor

[2016/06/26 13:12] Widget Whiteberry: Public or common prims remain the same

[2016/06/26 13:12] Delia Lake: less common land and more private land in the region

[2016/06/26 13:13] Delia Lake: it is not essential to do this, but aesthetically it might work better

[2016/06/26 13:13] Delia Lake: no current resident would have to relocate anything

[2016/06/26 13:14] Delia Lake: but they would have expanded plot borders

[2016/06/26 13:14] Delia Lake: not a huge amount more space, only about 1/3 more land

[2016/06/26 13:15] Rosie Gray: the parcels would have to be added to, which would involve parcelling off land beside existing parcels, and then merging them

[2016/06/26 13:15] Delia Lake: changing the cost per prim is imperative. changing the bonus factor is optional

[2016/06/26 13:15] Delia Lake: but we do need to decide before doing an actual design

[2016/06/26 13:15] Delia Lake: yes, Rosie

[2016/06/26 13:16] Rosie Gray: it might be a good idea to ask the existing parcel owners, hmmm?

[2016/06/26 13:16] Delia Lake: we have talked with some about that

[2016/06/26 13:16] Delia Lake: as I said, it is optional not essential

[2016/06/26 13:16] Aedan (aedan.charron): raises his hand

[2016/06/26 13:16] Delia Lake: yes, Aedan?

[2016/06/26 13:17] Lilith Ivory: I like the idea of having more sqm (and would not mind picking my prims up while the reparceling needs to be done)

[2016/06/26 13:17] Delia Lake: :) thanks, Lil

[2016/06/26 13:17] Lilith Ivory: smiles

[2016/06/26 13:18] Aedan (aedan.charron): So that I completely understand, the second chart shows Lilith's plot at 3321. The third one shows it at 2215 if FDS is using 3 as a multiplier... So, hers would increase and that is what is reflected in the chart 2nd from the left?

[2016/06/26 13:18] Aedan (aedan.charron): (just picked hers as an example)

[2016/06/26 13:18] Sudane Erato: exactly

[2016/06/26 13:18] Aedan (aedan.charron): OK

[2016/06/26 13:18] Sudane Erato: tho the chart shows the sizes at all 3 bonus factors

[2016/06/26 13:19] Delia Lake: yes the chart to the right of middle has sq m columns in F, G and H

[2016/06/26 13:20] Delia Lake: if it were the 8 bonus factor as Monastery is, Lil would have significantly reduced space. right now at a bonus of 3, she has 2215 sq m. at a bonus factor of 2 her plot would be expanded to 3321 sq m

[2016/06/26 13:21] Delia Lake: questions?

[2016/06/26 13:22] Rosie Gray: I am trying to understand the charts

[2016/06/26 13:22] Delia Lake: do you want us to wait, or continue, Rosie?

[2016/06/26 13:22] Rosie Gray: why are we seeing differences in the tiers per month, between the charts, for individuals?

[2016/06/26 13:23] Delia Lake: which chart?

[2016/06/26 13:23] Rosie Gray: I'm looking on the spreadsheet because I can't see it very well on the prims

[2016/06/26 13:23] Sudane Erato: the chart on the left displays different cost/prim rates

[2016/06/26 13:23] Widget Whiteberry: Rosie, which sheet are you looking at on the g-doc?

[2016/06/26 13:23] Rosie Gray: Scratch

[2016/06/26 13:24] Sudane Erato: the chart on the right takes a cost/prim of .03995 and explores different bonus factors using that rate

[2016/06/26 13:24] Sudane Erato: sorry... .0395

[2016/06/26 13:25] Delia Lake: one of the charts lays out cost per prim differences, another lays out bonus factor differences

[2016/06/26 13:25] Rosie Gray: okay.. I think I see it now

[2016/06/26 13:25] Rosie Gray: nods

[2016/06/26 13:25] Delia Lake: so back to cost per prim for a minute.

[2016/06/26 13:25] Rosie Gray: yes sorry I thought they were comparing between the two of them, rather than as different comparisons

[2016/06/26 13:26] Delia Lake: although it wasn't within what we were tasked to do exactly, to arrive at anything sensible for Friedsee we had to look at the numbers for all the CDS regions

[2016/06/26 13:27] Delia Lake: although they are not identical, the numbers and costs for the 4 full regions are similar

[2016/06/26 13:27] Delia Lake: the Monastery cost per prim though is much higher

[2016/06/26 13:27] Rosie Gray: thus the reason you are comparing different costs per prim, per month

[2016/06/26 13:27] Delia Lake: yes Rosie

[2016/06/26 13:27] Rosie Gray: got it

[2016/06/26 13:28] Delia Lake: to see what covers tier to LL and to look at what is fair

[2016/06/26 13:30] Delia Lake: so although it is not really to do with the redesign of Friedsee but is within the purview of the LUC, we are putting on the table a suggestion that we lower the cost per prim for Monastery and add one plot to sell on that region, so that the costs to individuals are more in line with the rest of the Estate

[2016/06/26 13:31] Delia Lake: tht the cost per prim on Monastery be 0.395 like we are recommending for Friedsee

[2016/06/26 13:31] Arria (arria.perreault): May I ?

[2016/06/26 13:31] Delia Lake: yes please, Arria

[2016/06/26 13:32] Delia Lake: and as I said this is only a suggestion on the table

[2016/06/26 13:34] Arria (arria.perreault): The concept of the Monastery sim was very deeply and largely discussed in the CDS community. The higher cost of prims was never an issue as far as I know. Until now the occupancy was rather fair. Even it could be nice to have lower fees, I don't see it as a necessity.

[2016/06/26 13:35] Arria (arria.perreault): I am not against this idea (if the design of the Monastery sim remains as today)

[2016/06/26 13:35] Delia Lake: thank you. and as I said, lowering the rate per prim for Monastery is optional, not a necessity

[2016/06/26 13:36] Arria (arria.perreault): I think that it is more important to think to what we will for Friedsee.

[2016/06/26 13:36] Lilith Ivory: raises her hand

[2016/06/26 13:36] Delia Lake: we only are putting it out because of the discrepancy. and the CDS may choose to continue with the rates they they are for Monastery

[2016/06/26 13:36] Widget Whiteberry: Delia?

[2016/06/26 13:36] Delia Lake: yes Widget?

[2016/06/26 13:37] Widget Whiteberry: If the 6 512 sq m parcels on monastary were increased slightly in size and prim count, I think that would also lower the cost per prim. Perhaps the current holders of those parcels would be interested in that option.

[2016/06/26 13:38] Widget Whiteberry: I can work up a chart to show the changes.

[2016/06/26 13:38] Widget Whiteberry: done

[2016/06/26 13:38] Delia Lake: thank you

[2016/06/26 13:39] Delia Lake: we've put out a lot of food for thought so far

[2016/06/26 13:39] Delia Lake: and it was necessary in order to have any meaningful design conversation

[2016/06/26 13:39] Delia Lake: because if we don't cover tier everything else is irrelevant

[2016/06/26 13:40] Delia Lake: to recap

[2016/06/26 13:40] Delia Lake: recommendation #1 is to raise the cost per prim on Friedsee to 0.395

[2016/06/26 13:41] Delia Lake: recommendation #2 is to change the bonus factor on Friedsee to 2 instead of its current 3

[2016/06/26 13:41] Delia Lake: lets now move to the actual design

[2016/06/26 13:42] Delia Lake: look at the bottom of either of the 2 middle charts

[2016/06/26 13:42] Arria (arria.perreault): I just want to add something about Monastery

[2016/06/26 13:43] Delia Lake: yes please, Arria

[2016/06/26 13:44] Arria (arria.perreault): The design of the sim was made for small parcels. It is hard to add msq. Have a look on the map of the sim.

[2016/06/26 13:45] Arria (arria.perreault): I think that this change makes sense only if the design of the Monastery changed deeply.

[2016/06/26 13:45] Delia Lake: if a parcel were to be added it would be a small parcel. but this is not essential and can be the topic of future discussions

[2016/06/26 13:46] Delia Lake: to the bottom of either of the middle charts

[2016/06/26 13:46] Arria (arria.perreault): I really think we should focus the discussion about Friedsee

[2016/06/26 13:47] Delia Lake: you will see that to make tier for Friedsee we would be assigning 3, 120 prims to private sale with 620 remaining for public landscaping and features

[2016/06/26 13:48] Delia Lake: this again is a design driver

[2016/06/26 13:49] Delia Lake: the survey that the LUC has conducted says in no uncertain terms that aesthetics is very important to CDS residents

[2016/06/26 13:49] Delia Lake: everyone who took the survey wants too live in pretty regions, and to be surrounded by pretty regions

[2016/06/26 13:50] Delia Lake: to do that with fewer prims takes some creativity in design

[2016/06/26 13:51] Delia Lake: one of the suggestions we put forth a couple of LUC meetings ago was to lower the water feature on Friedsee to LL level water

[2016/06/26 13:51] Delia Lake: like this lake is

[2016/06/26 13:51] Delia Lake: right now the lake and river on Friedsee are prim

[2016/06/26 13:52] Delia Lake: and not as versatile for swimming and boating as LL water is

[2016/06/26 13:52] Delia Lake: as people mentioned when they arrived today, it's nice to boat here

[2016/06/26 13:53] Delia Lake: lowering the water to LL water on Friedsee would have a number of benefits

[2016/06/26 13:53] Delia Lake: and some design challenges as well

[2016/06/26 13:53] Delia Lake: easily usable water, not just pretty water, is desirable

[2016/06/26 13:54] Delia Lake: and allows for a design/plot feature of boat slips for small, functional boats

[2016/06/26 13:56] Delia Lake: also, while land requires trees, rocks, flower, animals, etc to make it look attractive, water does not need anywhere near as much, so LL water fits well within our public prim constraints

[2016/06/26 13:57] Delia Lake: that lead to looking around for rl examples of middle European areas that had mountains and prominent water features

[2016/06/26 13:57] Delia Lake: there are a number of beautiful ones

[2016/06/26 13:57] Delia Lake: one of those is the Iron Gates where the Carpathian and Balkan Mountains meet

[2016/06/26 13:57] Delia Lake: another is the Turda Gorge area in the Carpathian Mountains

[2016/06/26 13:58] Delia Lake: each provides some good design ideas

[2016/06/26 13:58] Delia Lake: because NFS, Monastery and Friedsee are all designated alpine in nature

[2016/06/26 13:59] Delia Lake: preserving the hilliness of Friedsee is important

[2016/06/26 13:59] Delia Lake: and here comes one of the design challenges

[2016/06/26 14:00] Delia Lake: to make the water at LL level and not disturb or only minimally disturb the current residents

[2016/06/26 14:00] Delia Lake: so again back to the rl examples where there are gorges, river + expanded water areas and hill tops

[2016/06/26 14:01] Delia Lake: if the slopes are stepped down from the owned parcels to the new water level, it can be done to look attractive and not stretch the textures too much

[2016/06/26 14:02] Delia Lake: and do take a look at the forested area here on the lake, bordering AM

[2016/06/26 14:02] Delia Lake: this area of trees is very low prim

[2016/06/26 14:02] Delia Lake: areas such as this can be done on Friedsee as well

[2016/06/26 14:03] Delia Lake: then take a look at the rocks along the channel going toward Friedsee

[2016/06/26 14:03] Delia Lake: those rocks are walkable and only 1 prim each

[2016/06/26 14:03] Rosie Gray: that's very good

[2016/06/26 14:04] Delia Lake: so if we conserve public prims by designing a significant LL water feature on the region we will have enough public prims to do attractive landscaping on the land areas

[2016/06/26 14:05] Delia Lake: were we to keep large amounts of land, it would be much more difficult. much more!

[2016/06/26 14:05] Delia Lake: though we want to disturb the current residents as little as possible

[2016/06/26 14:05] Delia Lake: there is quite an expanse of public land on Friedsee

[2016/06/26 14:06] Delia Lake: that land can be lowered significantly while still retaining a mountainous feel to the region

[2016/06/26 14:07] Delia Lake: and making a good transition to the new water level

[2016/06/26 14:07] Delia Lake: the one feature tht people have asked to keep is the airfield

[2016/06/26 14:08] Delia Lake: so Han and I asked 3 of our citizen pilots to explore what would be the minimum needed to do that

[2016/06/26 14:08] Delia Lake: Coop, would you want to speak to that?

[2016/06/26 14:08] Delia Lake: Coop, Andrew and Gaius talked

[2016/06/26 14:10] Delia Lake: let me start

[2016/06/26 14:10] Widget Whiteberry: tries to dunk Coop

[2016/06/26 14:11] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): can't

[2016/06/26 14:11] Delia Lake: they seem to feel that the location of the airfield works. that the prims could be reduced by having a dirt landing strip and a windsock or so, and a fence so that no one runs off the region border on landing

[2016/06/26 14:11] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): sorry, the smoke dectector went off

[2016/06/26 14:11] Delia Lake: yikes. np

[2016/06/26 14:11] Delia Lake: ask Coop for details later then

[2016/06/26 14:12] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): no, I'm back

[2016/06/26 14:12] Delia Lake: but the other thing they talked about was a hanger for rezzing planes

[2016/06/26 14:12] Delia Lake: ok

[2016/06/26 14:12] Sudane Erato: sorry guys... sadly I must go... RL is very insistent!

[2016/06/26 14:12] Delia Lake: please if you can, Coop

[2016/06/26 14:12] Rosie Gray: bye Sudeane!

[2016/06/26 14:12] Delia Lake: thanks much for coming today Sudane!

[2016/06/26 14:12] Sudane Erato: but I appreciate the careful analysis that Delia and Widget have done

[2016/06/26 14:12] Bye Sudane :)

[2016/06/26 14:12] Widget Whiteberry: waves

[2016/06/26 14:12] Sudane Erato: makes a lot of sense to me

[2016/06/26 14:13] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): The bottom line was if we want to keep the airfield, we will have to be very tight with prims

[2016/06/26 14:14] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): as a side note, that has been one of my constant cries throughout the discussions of the redesign. That and prim price parity

[2016/06/26 14:15] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): The discussion currently is to go with a flat terraformed in earthen or grass strip, with a minimal waiting/observation area, to include a rez spot

[2016/06/26 14:15] Rosie Gray: ye gads, the lag :(

[2016/06/26 14:16] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): There was talk about further facilities such as a hanger, and how to set up the landscaping to keep from falling off the edge of the sim

[2016/06/26 14:17] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): The consensus seemed to be that the current location was about the best spot for the field as it is laid out now

[2016/06/26 14:17] Delia Lake: so the plan is to incorporate keeping the airfield into the redesign

[2016/06/26 14:18] Arria (arria.perreault): May I ask a question ?

[2016/06/26 14:18] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I think Gaius and Andrew like having it.

[2016/06/26 14:18] Delia Lake: speaking personally, I feel it is important to have activities and spaces for activities. that other wise we risk being a "bedroom community" where people log on and off but do not hang out

[2016/06/26 14:18] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): My feeling is we have several 'Or' choices

[2016/06/26 14:19] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): The homestead means we can't keep everything.

[2016/06/26 14:21] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I'm done for now

[2016/06/26 14:21] Delia Lake: we can't keep on a homestead what we had on public land on a full region

[2016/06/26 14:21] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli

[2016/06/26 14:21] Delia Lake: thanks Coop

[2016/06/26 14:21] Delia Lake: hi Calli

[2016/06/26 14:21] Rosie Gray: pardon me folks... going AFK but leaving myself here so I can catch up later on what was said ㋡

[2016/06/26 14:21] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Hi Calli

[2016/06/26 14:21] Arria (arria.perreault): May I ask a question about the airfield?

[2016/06/26 14:22] Callipygian Christensen: thanks..I needed to take a dip

[2016/06/26 14:22] Delia Lake: any questions or comments on what has been said so far about the design options?

[2016/06/26 14:22] Delia Lake: yes, Arria?

[2016/06/26 14:22] Arria (arria.perreault): In the current hypothesis (keeping this airfield) is the redesign only affecting Friedsee ? Or keeping the airfiled means redesign neighboors sims ? In my point of view it would so easy to lower the sim to reach the sea without affecting neighboor sims.

[2016/06/26 14:23] Delia Lake: the airfield is at the northwest corner of Friedsee and does not touch any other regions

[2016/06/26 14:23] Arria (arria.perreault): I know

[2016/06/26 14:23] Delia Lake: it has LL void on 2 sides

[2016/06/26 14:23] Arria (arria.perreault): but if you keep it, where do you reach the sea ?

[2016/06/26 14:24] Delia Lake: Han's land on the east side and public land on the north side. I misspoke it's on the southwest corner

[2016/06/26 14:25] Delia Lake: the airfield doesn't need to reach the sea but the land to the north of the airfield would be lowered to LL water level

[2016/06/26 14:25] Widget Whiteberry: wonders about the minimal elevation needed for an airfield

[2016/06/26 14:25] Delia Lake: or between the airfield and Tan's land

[2016/06/26 14:25] Delia Lake: would be water level

[2016/06/26 14:25] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): The key is going to be the trees

[2016/06/26 14:25] Widget Whiteberry: (Oakland and San Francisco airports are at sea level)

[2016/06/26 14:26] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Widge, it's a hard climb as is to come off and head into NFS

[2016/06/26 14:26] Leslie Allandale: but in the mountains small planes need to drop off the end of the runway

[2016/06/26 14:26] Widget Whiteberry: maybe move it north to gain elevation?

[2016/06/26 14:27] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): no, then you have a finger out into the middle of the sim

[2016/06/26 14:27] Delia Lake: it seems that it may have the least interference where it currently is

[2016/06/26 14:27] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): if anyone wants a ride, my PBY seats 6

[2016/06/26 14:28] Delia Lake: if you haven't taken a ride, it's great fun!

[2016/06/26 14:29] Delia Lake: so the design considerations are taking into account activities, such as boating and flying

[2016/06/26 14:29] Delia Lake: that benefit the entire CDS community

[2016/06/26 14:30] Delia Lake: the next consideration is the interface with the abutter regions, NFS and Monastery

[2016/06/26 14:30] Arria (arria.perreault): Delia, I understand that flying and boating are very funny activities in SL.

[2016/06/26 14:30] Delia Lake: yes :)

[2016/06/26 14:31] Arria (arria.perreault): I would like to to add that what will be available in CDS with this redesign will never meet the standards of flying and boating in CDS (like in Black Seas)

[2016/06/26 14:31] Delia Lake: I don't usually come to meetings in my bathing suit but I swam here today from the beach in AM

[2016/06/26 14:32] Delia Lake: no we cannot match the extent of the Blake Sea. it is a unique SL feature

[2016/06/26 14:32] Delia Lake: I do sail there btw

[2016/06/26 14:32] Arria (arria.perreault): so my question is easy: should we really impact sims that are successfull since a while for possibilities that are not really optimal (nice of cours, but not optimal)

[2016/06/26 14:32] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): No it won't. We discussed that when I was Chancellor, and it was agreed it would be much more abbreviated

[2016/06/26 14:33] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): It doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried

[2016/06/26 14:33] Delia Lake: so the interface with NFS. I expect that there will be a significant drop off at the west side of my land and Les's land as the water on Friedsee goes to LL level

[2016/06/26 14:34] Delia Lake: we will need some rock faces there

[2016/06/26 14:34] Arria (arria.perreault): I am not saying that I am against any change. But I
think that a change should bring a real added-value.

[2016/06/26 14:34] Arria (arria.perreault): This airfield is nice, but it doesnt meet the standards of real SL pilots

[2016/06/26 14:34] Arria (arria.perreault): Same for boating.

[2016/06/26 14:34] Delia Lake: we have to design in the added value, Arria. the RA has already forced change on us

[2016/06/26 14:35] Delia Lake: we cannot keep Friedsee as it was designed. it is unsustainable even as a homestead without change

[2016/06/26 14:36] Arria (arria.perreault): What I am telling is : is it possible to make a redesign without affecting the Monastery and NFS ?

[2016/06/26 14:36] Arria (arria.perreault): The Monastery is successull as it

[2016/06/26 14:37] Delia Lake: and, this is just my personal opinion here, to be able to have a small diversion of a short flight or a paddle or swim or skating in the winter without making a big deal of going somewhere else, or having a small gathering of CDS folk here is a good thing

[2016/06/26 14:37] Arria (arria.perreault): why to make it less attractive ?

[2016/06/26 14:37] Delia Lake: it is impossible for a redesign of Friedsee not to affect my own property in NFS

[2016/06/26 14:37] Delia Lake: and I would certainly expect that we would make the region more attractive than it is now not less attractive

[2016/06/26 14:38] Arria (arria.perreault): Not with things that doesnt meet standards, Delia

[2016/06/26 14:39] Delia Lake: I say this about my own land because the edge between NFS and Friedsee is odd at the edge of my property and changing Friedsee will change my plot terrain unavoidably

[2016/06/26 14:39] Arria (arria.perreault): All this area was conceived as an alpine area

[2016/06/26 14:39] Delia Lake: the area will still be alpine

[2016/06/26 14:39] Arria (arria.perreault): what you propose is far away from the Alps

[2016/06/26 14:39] Arria (arria.perreault): Balkan is south Europe

[2016/06/26 14:39] Arria (arria.perreault): Carpathes east Europe

[2016/06/26 14:39] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Lake Geneva?

[2016/06/26 14:39] Delia Lake: not Alps, alpine, central Europe as specified in the covenant

[2016/06/26 14:40] Delia Lake: it is not seashore such as LA. that is not the proposal at all

[2016/06/26 14:40] Arria (arria.perreault): Balkan mountains are in the south of Europe

[2016/06/26 14:40] Arria (arria.perreault): Carathian Moutains are in the east of Europe

[2016/06/26 14:41] Delia Lake: we were just looking for examples of areas that had gorges with rivers and larger water areas while still mountain

[2016/06/26 14:41] Delia Lake: but not the highest mountains in sl

[2016/06/26 14:41] Arria (arria.perreault): Look the Rhine river

[2016/06/26 14:41] Arria (arria.perreault): Lorelei Rock

[2016/06/26 14:41] Arria (arria.perreault): so romantic place

[2016/06/26 14:42] Delia Lake: and the other design consideration is how do we make best use of the reduced public prims available

[2016/06/26 14:42] Arria (arria.perreault): CN is along the Rhine river

[2016/06/26 14:42] Delia Lake: so all this is a consideration

[2016/06/26 14:42] Delia Lake: yes CN is Rhenus

[2016/06/26 14:42] Arria (arria.perreault): so why not look this river first

[2016/06/26 14:42] Arria (arria.perreault): Look the Loreli Rock

[2016/06/26 14:42] Arria (arria.perreault): Lorelei

[2016/06/26 14:43] Delia Lake: so it's not the exact place in rl as we are not replicating any place but looking at how to design a region that includes mountains, rivers/lakes and fits a homestead

[2016/06/26 14:43] Leslie Allandale: Is she going to tempt sailors to their doom?

[2016/06/26 14:43] Delia Lake: please post a link to pictures, Arria

[2016/06/26 14:43] Arria (arria.perreault): I will

[2016/06/26 14:43] Widget Whiteberry: raises her hand

[2016/06/26 14:43] Delia Lake: yes Widget

[2016/06/26 14:44] Arria (arria.perreault): I agree that we have to redesign Friedsee

[2016/06/26 14:44] Delia Lake: and then back to NFS and Monastery

[2016/06/26 14:44] Arria (arria.perreault): Adding water is one possibility

[2016/06/26 14:44] Widget Whiteberry: Do we have agreement on LUC members regarding the numbers of parcels, multiplier, prim bonus and price per prim?

[2016/06/26 14:44] Arria (arria.perreault): Having mountain area is an other possibility and we know that it wrks very well on the Monastery

[2016/06/26 14:44] Widget Whiteberry: So we can construct design options?

[2016/06/26 14:45] Widget Whiteberry: I'm concerned about the time

[2016/06/26 14:45] Widget Whiteberry: Done

[2016/06/26 14:45] Delia Lake: thank you Widget and good point

[2016/06/26 14:45] Arria (arria.perreault): ... uselang=fr

[2016/06/26 14:46] Delia Lake: we should actually vote on the parcels, multiplier, prim bonus and prim price. Widget would you make a motion please?

[2016/06/26 14:47] Widget Whiteberry: oh my

[2016/06/26 14:47] Widget Whiteberry: Let's see

[2016/06/26 14:47] Lilith Ivory: bye all I need to run for now

[2016/06/26 14:47] Delia Lake: and yes. Arria, many of these photos provide good examples

[2016/06/26 14:47] Arria (arria.perreault): (FInal decision is to the RA?)

[2016/06/26 14:47] Leslie Allandale: yes

[2016/06/26 14:47] Delia Lake: no the RA doesn't have that decision

[2016/06/26 14:48] Delia Lake: the RA by law will vote on the tier change

[2016/06/26 14:48] Widget Whiteberry: I move we construct an FDS design with 14 parcels as laid out on our chart, a bonus factor of 2, price per prim at

[2016/06/26 14:48] Delia Lake: but they do not figure in redesigns by law

[2016/06/26 14:48] Widget Whiteberry: moment

[2016/06/26 14:48] Arria (arria.perreault): I'd like that the LUC vote only on Friedsee parcels, prims bonus

[2016/06/26 14:48] Widget Whiteberry: .0395

[2016/06/26 14:48] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): That is up to the Chair

[2016/06/26 14:49] Widget Whiteberry: Is my motion clear?

[2016/06/26 14:49] Arria (arria.perreault): no

[2016/06/26 14:49] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I second the motion

[2016/06/26 14:49] Delia Lake: second to Widgets motion?

[2016/06/26 14:49] Aedan (aedan.charron): nods "I believe so and will second it

[2016/06/26 14:49] Delia Lake: all in favor?

[2016/06/26 14:49] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Aye

[2016/06/26 14:49] Arria (arria.perreault): Delia said it was a necessity to change the prim bonus on Monastery

[2016/06/26 14:49] Aedan (aedan.charron): Aye

[2016/06/26 14:49] Widget Whiteberry: aye

[2016/06/26 14:49] Leslie Allandale: aye

[2016/06/26 14:49] Delia Lake: passed

(continued in next post)
User avatar
Aedan Charron
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:17 am
Location: Locus Amoenus

Re: Transcript of LUC Meeting of 26 June 2016

Post by Aedan Charron »

( Continued - Transcript of LUC Meeting of 26 June 2016)

[2016/06/26 14:49] Arria (arria.perreault): What is the motion about ?

[2016/06/26 14:49] Arria (arria.perreault): Only Friedsee?

[2016/06/26 14:49] Widget Whiteberry: I'll restate

[2016/06/26 14:50] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): No, this is not about Monastery

[2016/06/26 14:50] Widget Whiteberry: I move we construct an FDS design with 14 parcels as laid out on our chart, a bonus factor of 2, price per prim at 0.0395

[2016/06/26 14:50] Delia Lake: Arria, let me say again that it is NOT necessary to change the bonus on Monastery. it is only a suggestion on the table and not up for vote today

[2016/06/26 14:50] Arria (arria.perreault): ok

[2016/06/26 14:51] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): which I second

[2016/06/26 14:51] Widget Whiteberry: and the members present voted to pass

[2016/06/26 14:52] Widget Whiteberry: Is there anything else we need to decide today?

[2016/06/26 14:52] Delia Lake: vote on Widget's second motion to construct a design of Friedsee?

[2016/06/26 14:52] Leslie Allandale: aye

[2016/06/26 14:52] Widget Whiteberry: is there a second?

[2016/06/26 14:52] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I second it

[2016/06/26 14:52] Widget Whiteberry: aye

[2016/06/26 14:52] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Aye

[2016/06/26 14:53] Aedan (aedan.charron): Aye

[2016/06/26 14:53] Arria (arria.perreault): I would like to make a request to the LUC

[2016/06/26 14:53] Delia Lake: Again passed. and yes there is a bit more

[2016/06/26 14:53] Widget Whiteberry: Let the record note that the sustainable occupancy rate on thes numbers is 77.09%

[2016/06/26 14:54] Delia Lake: yes

[2016/06/26 14:55] Delia Lake: we will start work on that immediately

[2016/06/26 14:55] Arria (arria.perreault): The LUC should make two constructs of design for Friedsee

[2016/06/26 14:55] Arria (arria.perreault): One should have a minimal impact on both sims Monastery and NFS

[2016/06/26 14:56] Arria (arria.perreault): and I think also that the CDS should also make strategic thoughts before any land is modified

[2016/06/26 14:56] Widget Whiteberry: nods.... yes, minimal impact is desirable

[2016/06/26 14:56] Delia Lake: We may actually do that, Arria. and that leads to another factor

[2016/06/26 14:57] Leslie Allandale: soz, but I am getting close to my time limit

[2016/06/26 14:57] Arria (arria.perreault): It seems that some citizen will an half usable airfield and a half usable boating area that could bring to sacrifice the waterfall of the Monastery sim and also the hiliness of the Monastery sim and that could affect the building itself (the Monastery is in the Destination Guide).

[2016/06/26 14:57] Delia Lake: which is should the water feature on Friedsee be self contained or should it connect through the current channel on Monastery public land into this lake and thereby the Rhenus making a navagible water feature that connects 5 of the 6 CDS regions?

[2016/06/26 14:58] Arria (arria.perreault): Do we will this ?

[2016/06/26 14:58] Delia Lake: none of the design proposals will affect the Monastery building

[2016/06/26 14:58] Arria (arria.perreault): Making a gorge and sacrificing the so pittoresque waterfall

[2016/06/26 14:59] Arria (arria.perreault): yes, Delia

[2016/06/26 14:59] Arria (arria.perreault): the sim was designed for this building

[2016/06/26 14:59] Delia Lake: yes the waterfall could be replaced with a river

[2016/06/26 14:59] Arria (arria.perreault): any change will have an impact

[2016/06/26 14:59] Delia Lake: it is one option

[2016/06/26 14:59] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Delia?

[2016/06/26 14:59] Delia Lake: no it would change only the public land not privately held land

[2016/06/26 15:00] Arria (arria.perreault): you told me that the Monastery could be the peak of the sim, which was never an option

[2016/06/26 15:00] Arria (arria.perreault): The Monastery is already known and any change could have an impact on it

[2016/06/26 15:01] Arria (arria.perreault): I have worked for years for the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:01] Delia Lake: I said "could be" not would be. and yes that is an option. It may not be the design option chosen but since the land behind the building is public land it is always an option and always has been

[2016/06/26 15:01] Arria (arria.perreault): Friedsee is mainly a residential area

[2016/06/26 15:01] Arria (arria.perreault): and not the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:01] Arria (arria.perreault): there was a concept behind the MOnastery

[2016/06/26 15:01] Delia Lake: no proposal will involve change to the land that houses the Monastery building

[2016/06/26 15:02] Arria (arria.perreault): and I find sad that it has to be deeply modified only to "save" Friedsse

[2016/06/26 15:02] Delia Lake: there was a concept behind Friedsee and behind each and every region in the CDS

[2016/06/26 15:02] Widget Whiteberry: Friedsee is likely to have 6 boat slips and 8 additional parcels on a small fraction of the land. That is not 'mainly residential.'

[2016/06/26 15:02] Arria (arria.perreault): it was a whole, a concept : building and sim

[2016/06/26 15:03] Arria (arria.perreault): yes, but we are sacrificing the Monastery sim now

[2016/06/26 15:03] Widget Whiteberry: sighs

[2016/06/26 15:03] Arria (arria.perreault): I think we should do everything to keep the waterfall

[2016/06/26 15:03] Arria (arria.perreault): look the view from the tower of the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:04] Delia Lake: if the water on Friedsee is lowered to LL level and this water here on Monastery is already at LL water level, it is an "option" to lower the public land channel through Monastery to connect the water features and make it navigable

[2016/06/26 15:04] Arria (arria.perreault): I find this very sad ...

[2016/06/26 15:04] Delia Lake: yes it is a pretty view

[2016/06/26 15:04] Arria (arria.perreault): so we should keep it

[2016/06/26 15:04] Callipygian Christensen: Arria - RA voted to make Friedsee a homestead, as a result the LUC has to redesign - the choice to downgrade not sell led to this imo, so working to come up with *solutions* that benfit both sims seems more productive than a 'yu can'ttt touch Monastery' approach

[2016/06/26 15:04] Delia Lake: any changes would make a new pretty view. NONE of the design proposals will ever include making any of the regions ugly

[2016/06/26 15:05] Arria (arria.perreault): I am not against change

[2016/06/26 15:05] Delia Lake: so we need to design a new "beautiful" and one that will hopefully attract more visitors to Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:05] Arria (arria.perreault): but I think that Monastery should be better preserved than in the current option

[2016/06/26 15:06] Callipygian Christensen: Yes, you are, if it isn't change that is exactly as yu want it - or at least, everything you've said while I sat here is about 'that change isnt right' ' nor is that one'

[2016/06/26 15:06] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): NIMBY

[2016/06/26 15:06] Arria (arria.perreault): I want that LUC makes a proposal that keeps the waterfall and the lake

[2016/06/26 15:06] Callipygian Christensen: So if you DO feel change can be good, come up with some suggestions that do what the LUC has to do and put them forward

[2016/06/26 15:06] Arria (arria.perreault): Calli, I worked since years for the Monastery for the benefit of CDS

[2016/06/26 15:07] Delia Lake: so let me add here that I build the current waterfall series on Monastery. I have no intention whatsoever of removing something I built then to replace it with something that is not as or more beautiful that what is currently there, including a beautiful view from the Monastery building tower

[2016/06/26 15:07] Callipygian Christensen: No arguement Arria - so put better options on the table

[2016/06/26 15:07] Delia Lake: this lake would stay as is

[2016/06/26 15:07] Delia Lake: many of us have worked for years for the benefit of the CDS

[2016/06/26 15:07] Arria (arria.perreault): and I cannot have at least see an option trying to preserve a bit more

[2016/06/26 15:07] Delia Lake: and intend to continue to do so

[2016/06/26 15:08] Arria (arria.perreault): someone sais "I want my airfied" and it is OK for everyone

[2016/06/26 15:08] Arria (arria.perreault): Arria sais "why not keeping the waterfall" and it is NO

[2016/06/26 15:08] Delia Lake: no, that is not what was said. what was said was then find a way to keep it within the new design constraints

[2016/06/26 15:08] Arria (arria.perreault): Calli, I am have offered my held to work closely on design

[2016/06/26 15:09] Arria (arria.perreault): I have severyl ideas

[2016/06/26 15:09] Callipygian Christensen: Arria - a previous RA approved a plan that included an airport - that isnt the LUC

[2016/06/26 15:09] Arria (arria.perreault): I just want to integrated to the work

[2016/06/26 15:09] Arria (arria.perreault): The RA approved also the Map of Monastery sim including the waterfall

[2016/06/26 15:10] Arria (arria.perreault): I am supporting the Monastery since years

[2016/06/26 15:10] Arria (arria.perreault): I think I can participate to this redesign

[2016/06/26 15:10] Second Life: Shep Titian gave you Corner Gang Platform 3 ... Oak ....

[2016/06/26 15:10] Callipygian Christensen: Arria - look,you can sit and object to each thing brought forward, or you can give specific design ideas that meet the needs of Friedsee as well as Monastery..that is how development of FULL estates works.

[2016/06/26 15:11] Arria (arria.perreault): I am ready to give a specific desgin, of cours

[2016/06/26 15:11] Arria (arria.perreault): of course*

[2016/06/26 15:11] Delia Lake: so let's look at the benefit of the waterfall vs the benefit of a river gorge, because this is the question. and look at it fromm the perspective of the CDS estate not solely from the Monastery building

[2016/06/26 15:11] Callipygian Christensen: But that's the realit - *both* regions have to be viable

[2016/06/26 15:11] Leslie Allandale: How does the river preclude a waterfall?

[2016/06/26 15:11] Delia Lake: what are the benefits of the waterfall?

[2016/06/26 15:11] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): or we'll be where we are, where NFS and AM carry the estate

[2016/06/26 15:12] Delia Lake: add that river would be at LL level

[2016/06/26 15:12] Delia Lake: water

[2016/06/26 15:12] Arria (arria.perreault): The benefit of the waterfall is a view

[2016/06/26 15:12] Leslie Allandale: and a waterfall can't flow into the river at

[2016/06/26 15:13] Leslie Allandale: linden level?

[2016/06/26 15:13] Delia Lake: anyone else re waterfall?

[2016/06/26 15:13] Arria (arria.perreault): the lake

[2016/06/26 15:13] Delia Lake: a view is important as it is part of the aesthetics of a region

[2016/06/26 15:13] Delia Lake: what about the lake?

[2016/06/26 15:13] Arria (arria.perreault): and some hills behind the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:14] Delia Lake: ok. hills behind the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:14] Arria (arria.perreault): I don't think the land should be lowered directly behind the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:14] Leslie Allandale: Can we wait on this argument until we have a model to view?

[2016/06/26 15:14] Delia Lake: what about the waterfall?

[2016/06/26 15:14] Delia Lake: this does affect the design though

[2016/06/26 15:14] Arria (arria.perreault): a small hill and then going down

[2016/06/26 15:15] Delia Lake: is there anything besides the view regarding the waterfall? from anyone?

[2016/06/26 15:15] Widget Whiteberry: me

[2016/06/26 15:15] Arria (arria.perreault): I will make a proposal

[2016/06/26 15:16] Delia Lake: yes Widget

[2016/06/26 15:16] Leslie Allandale: We still have a peak at the corner of the four sims going down quickly to water level. Couldn't that have a waterfall?

[2016/06/26 15:16] Delia Lake: if we have a prim waterfall we do not have a navigable waterway

[2016/06/26 15:16] Widget Whiteberry: personally, the idea I find most attractive is navigable waters throughout the region. I hope we can find a way to do that and still have a water fall in Mon.

[2016/06/26 15:16] Arria (arria.perreault): A waterfall makes an attractive landscape

[2016/06/26 15:16] Delia Lake: we can put in rapids on LL water but not a waterfall

[2016/06/26 15:17] Widget Whiteberry: can the waterfall be moved?

[2016/06/26 15:17] Delia Lake: so rapids with foam even

[2016/06/26 15:17] Leslie Allandale: No, a waterfall at right angles to the waterway

[2016/06/26 15:17] Second Life: Shep Titian gave you Snapshot : Jasmine Heights ..., Jasmine Heights (199, 8, 4006) .

[2016/06/26 15:17] Delia Lake: we have a waterfall on AM in fact a series of them

[2016/06/26 15:17] Delia Lake: yes we could have a waterfall that empties into a river, Les

[2016/06/26 15:18] Delia Lake: and move the channel a little to accommodate that

[2016/06/26 15:18] Delia Lake: whiile still on public land

[2016/06/26 15:18] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I have an idea

[2016/06/26 15:19] Delia Lake: yes, Coop?

[2016/06/26 15:20] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Rather than use the course from the lake, perhaps we can make the channel along the sim edge, from the surf side, then go into FDS

[2016/06/26 15:20] Delia Lake: possible

[2016/06/26 15:20] Aedan (aedan.charron): nods "I've wondered about that too though it would likely mean moving people"

[2016/06/26 15:20] Delia Lake: to go through to the west side of both Monastery and Friedsee

[2016/06/26 15:20] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): and sloping it off

[2016/06/26 15:21] Delia Lake: it could be done without moving anyone

[2016/06/26 15:21] Delia Lake: the northwest of Friedsee and the southwest of Monastery is all
public land

[2016/06/26 15:22] Delia Lake: so that is a real possibility

[2016/06/26 15:23] Delia Lake: the waterfall on Monastery would probably require a new source in order to remain plausable

[2016/06/26 15:23] Arria (arria.perreault): yes

[2016/06/26 15:24] Leslie Allandale: Roaring springs at the grand canyon comes out of the face of a cliff

[2016/06/26 15:24] Leslie Allandale: from an underground aquifer source

[2016/06/26 15:24] Arria (arria.perreault): there are also a lot of examples in the Alps

[2016/06/26 15:25] Aedan (aedan.charron): There is a pond at the top of the peek already..though it is frozen :)

[2016/06/26 15:25] Delia Lake: yes but it would not be the current source connected to Friedsee

[2016/06/26 15:25] Delia Lake: so a little adjustment there

[2016/06/26 15:25] Arria (arria.perreault): ... uselang=fr

[2016/06/26 15:26] Delia Lake: yes many have small lake type areas as sources. the rl river tht flows past my home has its source in a lake about a mile away

[2016/06/26 15:26] Callipygian Christensen: ummm

[2016/06/26 15:27] Callipygian Christensen: is there any way in the magic of SL to build a waterall off of prim rocks that you could boat under and through on SL water level water?

[2016/06/26 15:28] Delia Lake: ooh, interesting idea Calli

[2016/06/26 15:28] Widget Whiteberry: IIRC, Commonwealth had something very like that?

[2016/06/26 15:28] Delia Lake: maybe there might be

[2016/06/26 15:28] Delia Lake: the lake in Commonwealth was prim water but yes, Widget

[2016/06/26 15:28] Callipygian Christensen: lots of mist and foam splahing up and out you come all saoking wet :)

[2016/06/26 15:29] Delia Lake: I actually like that idea. let's see what we might do. then there would be a LL water level throughout but a 2 sided rock waterfall

[2016/06/26 15:29] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): a cavern would be nice

[2016/06/26 15:29] Callipygian Christensen: :)

[2016/06/26 15:30] Delia Lake: that was phantom at the base so you could boat through

[2016/06/26 15:30] Delia Lake: it will take some creativity but just might be doable and uniquely beautiful

[2016/06/26 15:30] Arria (arria.perreault): Delia, is it possible to have a sketche with the idea of Coop ? (Rather than use the course from the lake, perhaps we can make the channel along the sim edge, from the surf side, then go into FDS)

[2016/06/26 15:31] Delia Lake: yes we can do that, Arria

[2016/06/26 15:31] Delia Lake: and what Calli suggests also

[2016/06/26 15:31] Arria (arria.perreault): great

[2016/06/26 15:32] Arria (arria.perreault): it would be great if they are published in the Forums

[2016/06/26 15:32] Arria (arria.perreault): we can discuss them

[2016/06/26 15:33] Arria (arria.perreault): I have also a suggestion about the hill that will remain behind the Monastery

[2016/06/26 15:33] Arria (arria.perreault): it should not affect the design of the sim

[2016/06/26 15:34] Delia Lake: let me say here that we are somewhat pressed by the fact that right now Friedsee does not make tier and new plots cannot be sold until the redesign is finished

[2016/06/26 15:34] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): Delia?

[2016/06/26 15:35] Delia Lake: yes please Coop

[2016/06/26 15:35] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I want to say it again, that while the grandfathering process helped, we have to get this done so we can lease lots. CDS needs to sell some lots

[2016/06/26 15:35] Delia Lake: I'm in agreement, Coop

[2016/06/26 15:36] Arria (arria.perreault): as you know that is a crypt under the Monastery building. I thought that we could dig a kind of channel at the level of the crypt and recover it with a giant rock. It could be a secret entrance or even the only secret entrance into the crypt.

[2016/06/26 15:36] RG Cooperstone (roguegeek.cooperstone): I'll leave my comments about the flying community aside, other than saying that I have flown in SL since 2008, and there are much worse fields on the mainland.

[2016/06/26 15:38] Delia Lake: a "secret" entrance to the Monastery crypt iw a great idea

[2016/06/26 15:38] Arria (arria.perreault): :-)

[2016/06/26 15:38] Arria (arria.perreault): (like the Cloaca Maxima in CN)

[2016/06/26 15:39] Delia Lake: yes

[2016/06/26 15:42] Delia Lake: we've had some good, and lengthy, discussions today

[2016/06/26 15:42] Delia Lake: and some good ideas have surfaced

[2016/06/26 15:43] Delia Lake: and we have a proposal on the numbers

[2016/06/26 15:43] Delia Lake: is there anything else of a critical nature that people want to add before we adjourn?

[2016/06/26 15:43] Widget Whiteberry: next meeting?

[2016/06/26 15:43] Aedan (aedan.charron): I think this has been quite productive.

[2016/06/26 15:43] Delia Lake: I think so too, Aedan

[2016/06/26 15:44] Widget Whiteberry: me too... and brava! Delia

[2016/06/26 15:44] Delia Lake: apologies for it being so long but it was necessary this time

[2016/06/26 15:44] Delia Lake: calendars?

[2016/06/26 15:45] Widget Whiteberry: perhaps you can send a doddle for 2 wks from now?

[2016/06/26 15:45] Delia Lake: 2 weeks would be 10 July. we have design work to do between
now and the next meeting

[2016/06/26 15:45] Delia Lake: we can do doodle, yes

[2016/06/26 15:46] Widget Whiteberry: I see nothing on the CDS calendar for July 9/10

[2016/06/26 15:47] Aedan (aedan.charron): That weekend is clear for me

[2016/06/26 15:47] Widget Whiteberry: ah, my Sunday is busy

[2016/06/26 15:47] Delia Lake: Sunday would be better for me. 9 July is my rl 39th wedding anniversary

[2016/06/26 15:47] Leslie Allandale: Mine too, least as it looks now

[2016/06/26 15:48] Widget Whiteberry: I'm only avail till about noon

[2016/06/26 15:48] Widget Whiteberry: or 1pm

[2016/06/26 15:48] Widget Whiteberry: but maybe we can schedule so I can be here for at least part of it

[2016/06/26 15:49] Delia Lake: ok let's do a doodle

[2016/06/26 15:50] Delia Lake: today's meeting is adjourned
Post Reply

Return to “Land Use Commission-Announcements”