10 - 18 LUC Transcript

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Mizou Vavoom
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10 - 18 LUC Transcript

Post by Mizou Vavoom »

Land Use Commission
Sunday October 18, 2020, 12:00 am SLT

LUC members: Almut - Chairperson, Em Warden - Citizens Rep, Sudane, Brooke - RA Rep, Mizou - Secretary
Absent members: Delia - Pro Tempore
Guests: Rosie - Chancellor, Tor, Lilith, Kyoko

[2020/10/18 12:00] Almut Brunswick: Hallo Lilith
[2020/10/18 12:00] Rosie Gray: hi Mizou
[2020/10/18 12:01] Lilith Ivory: Hi Almut
[2020/10/18 12:01] Lilith Ivory: Hi Mizou
[2020/10/18 12:01] Brooke Brandenburg: Hi Mizou :)
[2020/10/18 12:01] Sudane Erato: hey :)
[2020/10/18 12:01] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Hi Rosie, sudane, Lillth, Brooke
[2020/10/18 12:01] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): and Almut
[2020/10/18 12:01] Almut Brunswick: Does everybody have got the agenda of today?
[2020/10/18 12:01] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): n
[2020/10/18 12:01] Almut Brunswick: Hello Mizou:D
[2020/10/18 12:01] Brooke Brandenburg: yes
[2020/10/18 12:01] Rosie Gray: I do
[2020/10/18 12:01] Sudane Erato: no... where do we find it
[2020/10/18 12:01] Lilith Ivory: not sure lol
[2020/10/18 12:01] Lilith Ivory: looking
[2020/10/18 12:01] Rosie Gray: better make an announcement to invite anyone else
[2020/10/18 12:02] Almut Brunswick: It has been posted in the reminder yesterday
[2020/10/18 12:02] Almut Brunswick: Rosie! I did!
[2020/10/18 12:02] Rosie Gray: did you just now?
[2020/10/18 12:02] Rosie Gray: maybe it is lost in the metaverse
[2020/10/18 12:02] Almut Brunswick: yesterday!
[2020/10/18 12:02] Sudane Erato: thx! :)
[2020/10/18 12:02] Rosie Gray: oh no... I mean right now though
[2020/10/18 12:02] Lilith Ivory: thank you
[2020/10/18 12:02] Almut Brunswick: It was attached to the group message
[2020/10/18 12:03] Lilith Ivory: I clicked the one in the group note but didn´t get it
[2020/10/18 12:03] Rosie Gray: you need to make an announcement to say it is starting right now, for those that don't see when they aren't online
[2020/10/18 12:03] Brooke Brandenburg: we lack Em?
[2020/10/18 12:03] Sudane Erato: I have a hard time getting notecards out of group messages... if I'm in world to get them
[2020/10/18 12:03] Rosie Gray: :(
[2020/10/18 12:03] Rosie Gray: yeah same, sometimes they just don't open
[2020/10/18 12:04] Sudane Erato: maybe we could put a notecard giver on the table
[2020/10/18 12:04] Lilith Ivory: that´s what just happened to me
[2020/10/18 12:04] Sudane Erato: exactly
[2020/10/18 12:04] Almut Brunswick: Well, the only missing today of the LUC member is Delia. She told me that she has RL obligations just in the same rhythm like our LUC meeting take place
[2020/10/18 12:04] Brooke Brandenburg: sometimes I have better luck getting them from group notices within the group
[2020/10/18 12:04] Rosie Gray: I'll make a notice
[2020/10/18 12:05] Almut Brunswick: Well, it is in the CDS calendar and I always post a group message one day before with the agenda
[2020/10/18 12:05] Almut Brunswick: when I need to ring a bell or to blow a horn shortly before we meet, I'll do that, too
[2020/10/18 12:05] Lilith Ivory: announcements when a meeting is about to start always makes sense and sometimes it even brings more people
[2020/10/18 12:05] Brooke Brandenburg: hehe
[2020/10/18 12:06] Sudane Erato: Hmm... here's an idea... we use this in RL...
[2020/10/18 12:06] Sudane Erato: and that is we use a GDoc for the agenda
[2020/10/18 12:06] Sudane Erato: and you can attach that to the calendar event
[2020/10/18 12:06] Sudane Erato: and then... for a new agenda
[2020/10/18 12:06] Sudane Erato: just insert it at the top of the doc
[2020/10/18 12:07] Sudane Erato: so you have a whole stream of agendas
[2020/10/18 12:07] Almut Brunswick: Before we dig into "miscellaneous", let#s officially start this meeting. ok?
[2020/10/18 12:07] Sudane Erato: and can always easily refer back to an earlier one
[2020/10/18 12:07] Almut Brunswick: I assume everybody has got "now" the agenda.
[2020/10/18 12:07] Sudane Erato: sure!
[2020/10/18 12:07] Sudane Erato: yes
[2020/10/18 12:07] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes
[2020/10/18 12:07] Almut Brunswick: I call this assembly to order. It is 12:07 Pm SLT
[2020/10/18 12:08] Sudane Erato: i move we approve the agenda
[2020/10/18 12:08] Brooke Brandenburg: second
[2020/10/18 12:08] Almut Brunswick: I push a bit on th espeed because Sudane has another date today in Rl and needs to leave us at 1 AM SLT
[2020/10/18 12:08] Almut Brunswick: aye
[2020/10/18 12:08] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): aye
[2020/10/18 12:08] Brooke Brandenburg: aye
[2020/10/18 12:08] Sudane Erato: aye
[2020/10/18 12:08] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2020/10/18 12:09] Almut Brunswick: Let's move to top 3
[2020/10/18 12:09] Sudane Erato: I move we approve the minutes
[2020/10/18 12:09] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): second
[2020/10/18 12:09] Sudane Erato: I read them the other day... very neat :)
[2020/10/18 12:09] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): :)
[2020/10/18 12:09] Almut Brunswick: Thank you again to Mizou who arranged our chitchat to something really substantial and in the right order
[2020/10/18 12:10] Almut Brunswick: by the way. The MoM always mirror the agenda discussed, too
[2020/10/18 12:10] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Its usually a bit of a puzzle but interesting to read things again
[2020/10/18 12:10] Sudane Erato: :)
[2020/10/18 12:10] Almut Brunswick: Yes, and to keep tracking
[2020/10/18 12:11] Almut Brunswick: Let's vote for the acceptance of the MoC of last week
[2020/10/18 12:11] Brooke Brandenburg: aye
[2020/10/18 12:11] Sudane Erato: aye
[2020/10/18 12:11] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): aye
[2020/10/18 12:11] Almut Brunswick: errm, of two weeks ago :D
[2020/10/18 12:11] Almut Brunswick: aye. thank you
[2020/10/18 12:12] Almut Brunswick: Now let's directly move to 4.B: Sudane's coast Line Renewal project. I will briefly say something about 4A. later on.
[2020/10/18 12:12] Almut Brunswick: Sudane, please
[2020/10/18 12:12] Sudane Erato: oh
[2020/10/18 12:12] Sudane Erato: well
[2020/10/18 12:13] Sudane Erato: I have made the proposal in the forums... and updated it again today
[2020/10/18 12:13] Sudane Erato: all the comments have been very helpful
[2020/10/18 12:13] Rosie Gray: oooh, I must have a quick look
[2020/10/18 12:13] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): Greetings all
[2020/10/18 12:13] Sudane Erato: hey Kyoko :)
[2020/10/18 12:13] Brooke Brandenburg: Hi Kyoko
[2020/10/18 12:13] Almut Brunswick: Hello Kyoko, take a seat :D
[2020/10/18 12:14] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): /me giggles
[2020/10/18 12:14] Rosie Gray: hi Kyoko ㋡
[2020/10/18 12:14] Sudane Erato: I agree with everything... I think the project should be seen as ongoing
[2020/10/18 12:14] Sudane Erato: with a quick launch possible because of the Simay builds
[2020/10/18 12:14] Sudane Erato: but
[2020/10/18 12:14] Sudane Erato: that they should not just get left... but slowly upgraded
[2020/10/18 12:15] Sudane Erato: Lil's point is well taken
[2020/10/18 12:15] Sudane Erato: that do we want to add yet another variation on the theme?
[2020/10/18 12:15] Sudane Erato: but
[2020/10/18 12:15] Sudane Erato: well... everything about RL
[2020/10/18 12:15] Sudane Erato: is varying and copying and borrowing
[2020/10/18 12:15] Sudane Erato: so we are doing that too
[2020/10/18 12:16] Sudane Erato: *shrug*
[2020/10/18 12:16] Sudane Erato: so we must have a decision for or against
[2020/10/18 12:16] Sudane Erato: so that the land goes back on the market quickly
[2020/10/18 12:16] Sudane Erato: done
[2020/10/18 12:16] Almut Brunswick: I think in last consequence, the RA will decide so or so
[2020/10/18 12:16] Sudane Erato: yes
[2020/10/18 12:16] Sudane Erato: but we must advise
[2020/10/18 12:16] Lilith Ivory: I always loved those Simay buildings :)
[2020/10/18 12:17] Sudane Erato: yes, they have great character :)
[2020/10/18 12:17] Almut Brunswick: I was working in tis area in the past days and weeks and I had different ideas of how to give this quarter a unique, maritime-inspired character
[2020/10/18 12:18] Sudane Erato: hehe... a container port? :)
[2020/10/18 12:18] Almut Brunswick: It is not a secret that I do not favour, however, to reproduce the LA architecture there literally and without variation
[2020/10/18 12:18] Almut Brunswick: Not a container port, naughty you
[2020/10/18 12:18] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2020/10/18 12:19] Almut Brunswick: but something with a more harbour-like character
[2020/10/18 12:19] Sudane Erato: omg... a sailor :)
[2020/10/18 12:19] Brooke Brandenburg: lol
[2020/10/18 12:19] Rosie Gray: hiya Tor
[2020/10/18 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: hi
[2020/10/18 12:19] Almut Brunswick: not just a Mediterranean fishermen’s village mainly for tourists
[2020/10/18 12:19] Sudane Erato: hey :)
[2020/10/18 12:19] Almut Brunswick: Hello Tor!
[2020/10/18 12:19] Brooke Brandenburg: Hi Tor
[2020/10/18 12:19] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Hi Tor
[2020/10/18 12:19] Sudane Erato: Almut, I share that feeling
[2020/10/18 12:19] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor and Kyoko (sorry I missed you sneaking in)
[2020/10/18 12:20] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Hi Kyoko
[2020/10/18 12:20] Sudane Erato: that’s why i feel this project should be ongoing
[2020/10/18 12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Just arrived
[2020/10/18 12:20] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): /me snuck in
[2020/10/18 12:20] Almut Brunswick: I'm also not sure if especially Belgian spa architecture would be the 100% match. But they have built other sorts of styles and building types after the 18t/19th century :D
[2020/10/18 12:21] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Spa architecture sorry???
[2020/10/18 12:21] Almut Brunswick: I mean sea bathes
[2020/10/18 12:21] Rosie Gray: hmmm
[2020/10/18 12:21] Almut Brunswick: Spar resorts
[2020/10/18 12:21] Rosie Gray: where in Tuscany do they have them?
[2020/10/18 12:21] Rosie Gray: don't forget that it's Tuscany
[2020/10/18 12:21] Almut Brunswick: Livorno for instance
[2020/10/18 12:22] Almut Brunswick: Livorno is a harbour and a bigger city. The ferry harbour to connect Elba
[2020/10/18 12:22] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): The buildings I have in mind are seaside resort houses from 1870 ies
[2020/10/18 12:22] Almut Brunswick: I don't say. Build a copy of Livorno!
[2020/10/18 12:22] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): LOL
[2020/10/18 12:22] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): Yes please.
[2020/10/18 12:22] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): no Livorno
[2020/10/18 12:23] Brooke Brandenburg: I think Simay works well for Tuscany and for LA
[2020/10/18 12:23] Almut Brunswick: I just say. think of building e.g. warehouses converted to flats or something like that. Mundane cafés. Whatever fits the topic but please: Vary the topic
[2020/10/18 12:23] Sudane Erato: Livorno appears a bit like Venice
[2020/10/18 12:23] Almut Brunswick: I could imagine a seaside prospect of houses from the 1870 to the 1930s
[2020/10/18 12:24] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Hmmm Simay might look nice but we have already a few of those in LA
[2020/10/18 12:24] Almut Brunswick: Is Simay a brand?
[2020/10/18 12:24] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes
[2020/10/18 12:24] Sudane Erato: yes
[2020/10/18 12:24] Lilith Ivory: and the problem with your idea Almut is that we want to make smaller parcels while anything mundane doesn´t exactly fit on a small plot
[2020/10/18 12:24] Almut Brunswick: Sorry for my stupid question
[2020/10/18 12:24] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): but can be made small
[2020/10/18 12:24] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): I can build to fit the plot
[2020/10/18 12:25] Rosie Gray: hmmm, sorry but is this helpful? I mean if Sudane is going to do this, and with the Simay buildings as the basis, then I am quite confident that she will make them varied and interesting
[2020/10/18 12:25] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Rosie
[2020/10/18 12:25] Sudane Erato: well... like I said, this can be ongoing
[2020/10/18 12:25] Brooke Brandenburg: so do I
[2020/10/18 12:25] Almut Brunswick: I need to see that
[2020/10/18 12:25] Sudane Erato: so the Simay builds go in quickly
[2020/10/18 12:25] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): OK i thought that i was helping Sudane on this project
[2020/10/18 12:25] Almut Brunswick: again: Are Simay prefabs?
[2020/10/18 12:25] Sudane Erato: but then, over time, we replace them with the larger or more intended architecture
[2020/10/18 12:25] Rosie Gray: yes, Almut
[2020/10/18 12:26] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): they are Almut
[2020/10/18 12:26] Rosie Gray: didn't you go and look at the examples?
[2020/10/18 12:26] Almut Brunswick: Why don't we consider building our own houses?
[2020/10/18 12:26] Sudane Erato: Almut, it will take months... weeks at least
[2020/10/18 12:26] Brooke Brandenburg: time factor, yes
[2020/10/18 12:26] Rosie Gray: for the reason that Sudane stated in her original post on the forum
[2020/10/18 12:26] Rosie Gray: it takes a long time
[2020/10/18 12:26] Sudane Erato: thats why i keep emphasizing... the Simay houses are transitional
[2020/10/18 12:26] Almut Brunswick: I know how long building lasts :D
[2020/10/18 12:27] Sudane Erato: it puts the parcels back on the market asap
[2020/10/18 12:27] Lilith Ivory: I like the idea to place Simay builds there to bring the land back on the market and discuss to build something different afterwards without having to hurry
[2020/10/18 12:27] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): /me nods at Sudane
[2020/10/18 12:27] Sudane Erato: and then we can slowly replace them
[2020/10/18 12:27] Sudane Erato: while not losing money
[2020/10/18 12:27] Rosie Gray: I agree with Lilith
[2020/10/18 12:27] Rosie Gray: yes, that was the intent, I thought
[2020/10/18 12:27] Almut Brunswick: Well, when that helps to push things forward, I agree with this procedure
[2020/10/18 12:27] Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
[2020/10/18 12:27] Brooke Brandenburg: good idea
[2020/10/18 12:27] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): agree
[2020/10/18 12:27] Sudane Erato: what Lil said
[2020/10/18 12:27] Almut Brunswick: But such a decision should not blockade changes for ages
[2020/10/18 12:28] Almut Brunswick: so they need to be well-considered
[2020/10/18 12:28] Sudane Erato: as soon as the land is back on the market we can begin planning for the replacements
[2020/10/18 12:28] Almut Brunswick: I will inspect the Simay buildings, also in expect on their LI
[2020/10/18 12:29] Almut Brunswick: Yes, Sudane
[2020/10/18 12:29] Almut Brunswick: The other question is what we could add or change as public infrastructure
[2020/10/18 12:30] Sudane Erato: so long as the parcelling is done... the infrastructure can also be updated as we go along
[2020/10/18 12:30] Almut Brunswick: Sudane has already outdrawn how the shore line could become more organic
[2020/10/18 12:30] Almut Brunswick: yes, but don't consider that *after* the parcelling, but in parallel
[2020/10/18 12:31] Almut Brunswick: anther question is how to propagate the new parcels to potential new citizens
[2020/10/18 12:31] Rosie Gray: what do you mean by that?
[2020/10/18 12:32] Almut Brunswick: This is surely a bit beyond or LUC responsibilities, but it should be addressed
[2020/10/18 12:32] Rosie Gray: I don't understand
[2020/10/18 12:32] Almut Brunswick: Rosie, advertisement
[2020/10/18 12:32] Rosie Gray: lol
[2020/10/18 12:32] Rosie Gray: Almut, that's so much easier said than done
[2020/10/18 12:32] Rosie Gray: and also nothing to do with the LUC
[2020/10/18 12:33] Almut Brunswick: [12:32] Almut Brunswick: This is surely a bit beyond or LUC responsibilities
[2020/10/18 12:33] Sudane Erato: well, its always been my concept that people are attracted to ingfteresting space
[2020/10/18 12:33] Sudane Erato: interesting views
[2020/10/18 12:33] Sudane Erato: places that feel homey... emotional
[2020/10/18 12:34] Brooke Brandenburg: Yes!
[2020/10/18 12:34] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): Like the FS redo
[2020/10/18 12:34] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2020/10/18 12:34] Sudane Erato: NFS has the great genius of being that way from the beginning... Ulrika's vision
[2020/10/18 12:34] Sudane Erato: we need to create similar organic and interesting space in other areas too
[2020/10/18 12:34] Sudane Erato: thus this proposal
[2020/10/18 12:35] Rosie Gray: yes and a definitive vision makes a great difference to achieve this
[2020/10/18 12:35] Rosie Gray: modelling inspired by a real place achieved that for NFS, I think
[2020/10/18 12:36] Rosie Gray: and a quirky, well done element, like the post-apocalyptic bridge in NFS gives it a focus and flair
[2020/10/18 12:36] Sudane Erato: perhaps that was why.... or maybe just the organic arrangement... as if the space had grown that way over centuries
[2020/10/18 12:36] Almut Brunswick: the question is: Can we attract people outside the CDS to settle down in this new quarter
[2020/10/18 12:36] Rosie Gray: yes, and I think you see that when you look at a real place
[2020/10/18 12:36] Sudane Erato: exactly
[2020/10/18 12:36] Rosie Gray: if it's old
[2020/10/18 12:36] Almut Brunswick: It is post-apocalyptic? Oh
[2020/10/18 12:36] Sudane Erato: so we'll have to see
[2020/10/18 12:37] Lilith Ivory: citizens have often bought Simay houses in the past so I think people might like to rent them
[2020/10/18 12:37] Rosie Gray: yes I agree
[2020/10/18 12:37] Sudane Erato: Lil... that’s true... many people brought Simay builds to LA
[2020/10/18 12:37] Rosie Gray: they come pre-made with some character
[2020/10/18 12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Simay houses are great
[2020/10/18 12:38] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): But most of them are quite big ?
[2020/10/18 12:38] Sudane Erato: many of them, yes
[2020/10/18 12:38] Lilith Ivory: the ones Sudane has are not
[2020/10/18 12:38] Sudane Erato: but I got the villages
[2020/10/18 12:38] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): ah ok
[2020/10/18 12:38] Almut Brunswick: and this is in contradiction of the idea with the small, affordable parcels
[2020/10/18 12:38] Sudane Erato: and they are composed of smaller houses
[2020/10/18 12:38] Sudane Erato: yes, we'd like smaller parcels
[2020/10/18 12:39] Lilith Ivory: the big ones don´t sell well anymore :(
[2020/10/18 12:39] Sudane Erato: no, sadly
[2020/10/18 12:39] Sudane Erato: people are poor
[2020/10/18 12:39] Rosie Gray: yep
[2020/10/18 12:39] Rosie Gray: or perhaps just spread out
[2020/10/18 12:40] Almut Brunswick: so the houses should not be the usual SL mansions, but more ... I'm thinking of handcrafter's or workers houses
[2020/10/18 12:40] Sudane Erato: can we send our endorsement of this proposal to the RA?
[2020/10/18 12:40] Brooke Brandenburg: I say yes
[2020/10/18 12:41] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/SI ... ce/3328144
[2020/10/18 12:41] Almut Brunswick: I support that, too
[2020/10/18 12:41] Rosie Gray: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9618
[2020/10/18 12:41] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Is this it Sudane?
[2020/10/18 12:41] Sudane Erato: Mizou, no
[2020/10/18 12:41] Rosie Gray: no
[2020/10/18 12:41] Sudane Erato: its is call Old Italian Village
[2020/10/18 12:41] Rosie Gray: if you read her original post, you can find it
[2020/10/18 12:41] Sudane Erato: and Old Italian Village II
[2020/10/18 12:41] Almut Brunswick: Mizou, that looks more like...ermm...Connecticut
[2020/10/18 12:41] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2020/10/18 12:42] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): ok
[2020/10/18 12:42] Sudane Erato: actually, I have used that one in New England
[2020/10/18 12:42] Rosie Gray: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/SI ... ge/4859151
[2020/10/18 12:42] Rosie Gray: there it is
[2020/10/18 12:42] Sudane Erato: that’s it
[2020/10/18 12:42] Lilith Ivory: and there is another one too
[2020/10/18 12:42] Sudane Erato: yes... I and II
[2020/10/18 12:42] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): oh yes i know it now
[2020/10/18 12:43] Sudane Erato: with Lyu's help I got both
[2020/10/18 12:43] Lilith Ivory: awww
[2020/10/18 12:43] Rosie Gray: oh that was nice of her
[2020/10/18 12:43] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes that’s nice
[2020/10/18 12:43] Brooke Brandenburg: so we know she supports it!
[2020/10/18 12:43] Sudane Erato: she's very supportive of this idea
[2020/10/18 12:43] Sudane Erato: yes!
[2020/10/18 12:43] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): So how is it going to be rented?
[2020/10/18 12:43] Almut Brunswick: I need to see them in situ.
[2020/10/18 12:44] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): its kind all over the place
[2020/10/18 12:44] Sudane Erato: they are there, Almut
[2020/10/18 12:44] Rosie Gray: well there's some there now, Almut
[2020/10/18 12:44] Almut Brunswick: it is just reproducing LA
[2020/10/18 12:44] Rosie Gray: zoom with your camera and see them :)
[2020/10/18 12:44] Em Warden (emwarden): is online.
[2020/10/18 12:44] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): https://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/ ... /107/44/25
[2020/10/18 12:44] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2020/10/18 12:44] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): that’s the SLURL to it
[2020/10/18 12:44] Almut Brunswick: This is exactly what I personally do not have in mind
[2020/10/18 12:44] Sudane Erato: thats the store... its a bit of a mess
[2020/10/18 12:45] Rosie Gray: if you have other ideas, you should be writing them on the forum during the week, in my opinion
[2020/10/18 12:45] Almut Brunswick: Small parcels yes, affordable buildings which blend well in the landscape yes, cloning the same stuff again and again NO
[2020/10/18 12:46] Almut Brunswick: Yes, you can take my word for that
[2020/10/18 12:46] Rosie Gray: nobody is saying to do that
[2020/10/18 12:46] Sudane Erato: there is no cloning... there is simply a consistent style
[2020/10/18 12:46] Lilith Ivory: those buildings look very different from what we have in the fishing village
[2020/10/18 12:46] Sudane Erato: and they are intended to be temporary
[2020/10/18 12:46] Sudane Erato: as I've said before
[2020/10/18 12:47] Almut Brunswick: Nothing is so eternal like a temporary solution
[2020/10/18 12:47] Rosie Gray: please read the thread on the forum
[2020/10/18 12:47] Sudane Erato: a few times :)
[2020/10/18 12:47] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): :)
[2020/10/18 12:47] Almut Brunswick: i did, Rosie
[2020/10/18 12:47] Rosie Gray: okay, but you are asking questions about what is already said there
[2020/10/18 12:47] Almut Brunswick: because you are here right now
[2020/10/18 12:48] Almut Brunswick: ok, to come to a conclusion for now
[2020/10/18 12:48] Almut Brunswick: I think Sudane’s proposal is ready to be officially presented to the RA
[2020/10/18 12:49] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): /me agrees
[2020/10/18 12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Really enjoyed dipping into the issues here, but there is a cruise in a few. So I must leave. Take care all.
[2020/10/18 12:49] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Hi Em
[2020/10/18 12:49] Rosie Gray: hi Em ㋡
[2020/10/18 12:49] Almut Brunswick: Hello Em
[2020/10/18 12:49] Lilith Ivory: HI Em
[2020/10/18 12:49] Brooke Brandenburg: see you Tor
[2020/10/18 12:49] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): See Tor
[2020/10/18 12:49] Em Warden (emwarden): Hi all
[2020/10/18 12:49] Almut Brunswick: Bye Tor
[2020/10/18 12:49] Sudane Erato: bye Tor... hi Em!
[2020/10/18 12:49] Lilith Ivory: bye Tor
[2020/10/18 12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: bye bye all
[2020/10/18 12:49] Lilith Ivory: don´t drown
[2020/10/18 12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Em and bye
[2020/10/18 12:50] Almut Brunswick: Tor is in the sailing fever
[2020/10/18 12:50] Rosie Gray: oh bye Tor
[2020/10/18 12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: hmmm, didn't go anywhere
[2020/10/18 12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: hehe
[2020/10/18 12:50] Almut Brunswick: Tor, I think the yacht club in LA will remain a wish :D
[2020/10/18 12:50] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): /me giggles
[2020/10/18 12:50] Brooke Brandenburg: you tell her!
[2020/10/18 12:50] Brooke Brandenburg: sorry wrong window there
[2020/10/18 12:51] Brooke Brandenburg: lol
[2020/10/18 12:51] Almut Brunswick: laughs, no problem
[2020/10/18 12:51] Almut Brunswick: So do we need to vote for submitting Sudane's proposal as it it now or do we all agree for now?
[2020/10/18 12:51] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): Almut, perhaps not my place, but don't you need to vote to pass it to the RA?
[2020/10/18 12:52] Brooke Brandenburg: yes we do
[2020/10/18 12:52] Almut Brunswick: This is because I was just asking, Kyoko
[2020/10/18 12:52] Almut Brunswick: ok, then formally voting please
[2020/10/18 12:52] Brooke Brandenburg: aye!
[2020/10/18 12:52] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): aye
[2020/10/18 12:52] Sudane Erato: aye
[2020/10/18 12:52] Almut Brunswick: aye!
[2020/10/18 12:52] Em Warden (emwarden): aye
[2020/10/18 12:53] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2020/10/18 12:53] Almut Brunswick: Sudane, now you have a few minutes left to say a bit about the mesh road topic
[2020/10/18 12:53] Sudane Erato: well
[2020/10/18 12:53] Sudane Erato: the road samples are in the NFS valley
[2020/10/18 12:53] Sudane Erato: at this time
[2020/10/18 12:54] Sudane Erato: they are all the Skye Enchanted Path
[2020/10/18 12:54] Almut Brunswick: (Mizou, that is 5a on the agenda)
[2020/10/18 12:54] Sudane Erato: this is the only one I've found
[2020/10/18 12:54] Sudane Erato: which has
[2020/10/18 12:54] Sudane Erato: season change
[2020/10/18 12:54] Sudane Erato: smaller size
[2020/10/18 12:54] Sudane Erato: and an approximately suitable style
[2020/10/18 12:55] Sudane Erato: I personally feel
[2020/10/18 12:55] Sudane Erato: that we have not yet found exactly the right style
[2020/10/18 12:55] Sudane Erato: I'm not thrilled about returning everything to the old Botanical
[2020/10/18 12:55] Sudane Erato: but
[2020/10/18 12:55] Sudane Erato: I am open to suggestions
[2020/10/18 12:55] Sudane Erato: done
[2020/10/18 12:56] Almut Brunswick: I see. Would it be worth a try to develop a sort of mesh road by ourselves?
[2020/10/18 12:56] Rosie Gray: it would be very difficult
[2020/10/18 12:56] Almut Brunswick: Or in other words: I would love to see a written specification - just a few requirements - to know what is actually desired
[2020/10/18 12:56] Sudane Erato: i think the skill level would be very high... the engineering on the meshes, so that they merge well, is very sophisticated
[2020/10/18 12:56] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): it would involve sculpting in Blender
[2020/10/18 12:57] Sudane Erato: the new Skye have a very beautiful system
[2020/10/18 12:57] Almut Brunswick: This is exactly why I'm asking, Mizou
[2020/10/18 12:57] Sudane Erato: but they are not season change
[2020/10/18 12:57] Rosie Gray: and the textures required would be very sophisticated too
[2020/10/18 12:57] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): I am not at that level in Blender atm
[2020/10/18 12:57] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): indeed
[2020/10/18 12:57] Sudane Erato: the Enchanted Path is not current new
[2020/10/18 12:57] Almut Brunswick: Season change is mainly changing textures, right?
[2020/10/18 12:57] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): so no need to ask any builders here present :)
[2020/10/18 12:58] Sudane Erato: Almut, yes... mostly
[2020/10/18 12:58] Em Warden (emwarden): What is wrong with the example roads in the Valley? personally I like them very much.
[2020/10/18 12:58] Almut Brunswick: Mizou, am I not a builder anymore? :D
[2020/10/18 12:58] Sudane Erato: although some winter season change now come with extra prims
[2020/10/18 12:58] Rosie Gray: yes, but it's multiple textures on 1 mesh object, and a HUD that the group can access too
[2020/10/18 12:58] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): @almut yes but sculpting??
[2020/10/18 12:58] Brooke Brandenburg: perhaps, until Alec adds season-change, we could just have the suggestion of a path with no textures laid down?
[2020/10/18 12:58] Rosie Gray: and multiple mesh objects so that they will blend nicely
[2020/10/18 12:59] Brooke Brandenburg: season-change for his latest path, that is
[2020/10/18 12:59] Almut Brunswick: Yes, Sudane, I was thinking about snow piles on the edges or so ...haven't seen that in SL not that often, but yet, at times you can find them
[2020/10/18 12:59] Sudane Erato: Brooke... we have to have textures :)
[2020/10/18 12:59] Sudane Erato: and when winter comes
[2020/10/18 12:59] Brooke Brandenburg: ok...just a thought
[2020/10/18 12:59] Sudane Erato: they really MUST go white
[2020/10/18 12:59] Almut Brunswick: and the snow piles should be repeat every 10 m again
[2020/10/18 12:59] Sudane Erato: oops... now i must leave... SORRY!
[2020/10/18 13:00] Lilith Ivory: bye Sudane :)
[2020/10/18 13:00] Brooke Brandenburg: bye Sudane
[2020/10/18 13:00] Rosie Gray: bye Sudane
[2020/10/18 13:00] Almut Brunswick: Ok, Sudane, thank you for your interim report
[2020/10/18 13:00] Rosie Gray: thanks for all your work on this
[2020/10/18 13:00] Em Warden (emwarden): Bye Sudane
[2020/10/18 13:00] Sudane Erato: is offline.
[2020/10/18 13:00] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Bye Sudane
[2020/10/18 13:01] Almut Brunswick: When you all agree, let's jump back to top 4 A: Missing roadway to a parcel close to the lake at Monastery
[2020/10/18 13:02] Almut Brunswick: Whilst the two walkways are not yet implemented, the old sluice head or the peninsula has got its full set of textures now
[2020/10/18 13:02] Rosie Gray: oh does it?
[2020/10/18 13:02] Almut Brunswick: means: Diffuse with some "aging", Specular and Normal/Bump Maps
[2020/10/18 13:02] Lilith Ivory: does it have season change too? or will it?
[2020/10/18 13:03] Almut Brunswick: Whilst I rendered the diffuse textures in Blender, I used the well-known online tool to generate the specular and normal maps
[2020/10/18 13:03] Almut Brunswick: and that worked very well and uncomplicated
[2020/10/18 13:04] Almut Brunswick: Yes, Lilith, my build is constructed in a way that all upper surface materials can be changed separately, so the application of autumn leaves or snow and hoarfrost are possible
[2020/10/18 13:05] Almut Brunswick: the change of textures could be also managed by a script
[2020/10/18 13:05] Lilith Ivory: via HUD?
[2020/10/18 13:05] Lilith Ivory: ah good :)
[2020/10/18 13:05] Almut Brunswick: that is possible, yest
[2020/10/18 13:05] Rosie Gray: we really need things to be managed by the LV group, for best advantage
[2020/10/18 13:05] Rosie Gray: like the current Botanical roads... the old roads
[2020/10/18 13:05] Almut Brunswick: main thing is that the mesh from it’s beginning has already been considered to allow such partly or also full texture changes
[2020/10/18 13:06] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): and a copy for Archie
[2020/10/18 13:06] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2020/10/18 13:06] Rosie Gray: not always possible, but best that way
[2020/10/18 13:06] Almut Brunswick: I could add the UUIDs of all persons allowed to perform these changes to the script
[2020/10/18 13:07] Almut Brunswick: if it will be a HUD or a dialog menu, is just a detail here
[2020/10/18 13:07] Lilith Ivory: those persons changes a lot over time
[2020/10/18 13:07] Almut Brunswick: that might be
[2020/10/18 13:07] Lilith Ivory: it is :)
[2020/10/18 13:07] Almut Brunswick: and what is your message behind this?
[2020/10/18 13:07] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): If it is your own creation you can set the permissions to copy/modify and share with LV group, yes?
[2020/10/18 13:07] Almut Brunswick: You can deposit the current UUIDs in a NC read by the script
[2020/10/18 13:08] Almut Brunswick: That is true, Mizou
[2020/10/18 13:08] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): so?
[2020/10/18 13:08] Lilith Ivory: my message is that all EMs , now and in future need to be able to work on season changes
[2020/10/18 13:08] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): isnt that the way we work?
[2020/10/18 13:08] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): /me nods at Lil
[2020/10/18 13:08] Rosie Gray: yes, that's our aim with all of the public infrastructure
[2020/10/18 13:08] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): My apologies, but RL is making noises
[2020/10/18 13:09] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): See you Kyoko
[2020/10/18 13:09] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): /me bows humbly
[2020/10/18 13:09] Almut Brunswick: How is it solved with other objects which require seasonal changes?
[2020/10/18 13:09] Rosie Gray: bye Mizou ㋡
[2020/10/18 13:09] Brooke Brandenburg: take care Kyoko
[2020/10/18 13:09] Lilith Ivory: bye Kyoko
[2020/10/18 13:09] Rosie Gray: oops, Kyoko I mean!
[2020/10/18 13:09] Almut Brunswick: Bye Kyoko
[2020/10/18 13:09] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): lol am still here
[2020/10/18 13:09] Rosie Gray: sorry
[2020/10/18 13:10] Almut Brunswick: Instead of letting me playing "guess how it works", just give me some hints how to implement it:)
[2020/10/18 13:10] Lilith Ivory: there are HUDs rezzed in each region that can be accessed by all who know about it
[2020/10/18 13:10] Almut Brunswick: Scripted by CDS residents?
[2020/10/18 13:10] Lilith Ivory: or you go online with Archie who owns some HUDs
[2020/10/18 13:10] Rosie Gray: all of the EMs have access to the Botanical and the new Skye options
[2020/10/18 13:10] Rosie Gray: yes, and what Lilith said
[2020/10/18 13:11] Lilith Ivory: I feel pity for any chancellor who has to replace UUID lists
[2020/10/18 13:11] Almut Brunswick: I would need a clear description how the script inside the objects needs to look like when they need to react on the HUD commands
[2020/10/18 13:11] Rosie Gray: do you own any Botanical scripted items, Almut?
[2020/10/18 13:12] Rosie Gray: or any of the Skye ones?
[2020/10/18 13:12] Rosie Gray: it's easiest to see how they work if you own one
[2020/10/18 13:12] Lilith Ivory: you can just go to Botanical and try the HUDs
[2020/10/18 13:12] Almut Brunswick: Lilith, I'm so sorry, but I implement this build from scratch and I have not yet built anything else before that for the CDS. SO some help is highly appreciated
[2020/10/18 13:12] Rosie Gray: okay, Almut
[2020/10/18 13:13] Rosie Gray: you are in the LV group too
[2020/10/18 13:13] Rosie Gray: so you also have access to those Botanical HUDs
[2020/10/18 13:13] Rosie Gray: you can go and work one to see how it functions
[2020/10/18 13:13] Rosie Gray: but, they are no modify so you cannot see the scripts
[2020/10/18 13:14] Almut Brunswick: Rosie, how can I know them how they work? Do they have a user manual?
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: the EMs who update the seasons know where they are
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: they are obvious
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: you click on a HUD
[2020/10/18 13:14] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): at crossroads
[2020/10/18 13:14] Lilith Ivory: I guess one is right below us in the Rathaus
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: and it says 'season's' or something
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: oh yes there are 3 of them there actually
[2020/10/18 13:14] Brooke Brandenburg: you get a popup menu
[2020/10/18 13:14] Brooke Brandenburg: with options
[2020/10/18 13:14] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes one on the ground floor here
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: yes
[2020/10/18 13:14] Rosie Gray: and you choose the season you want
[2020/10/18 13:15] Rosie Gray: also the Botanical ones can be rezzed and set to the group.. . that’s how the EMs can use them
[2020/10/18 13:15] Almut Brunswick: What about equipping builds with the satellite scripts which respond on the HUD's command?
[2020/10/18 13:15] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): I think Almut that the method we have been using is quite adequate
[2020/10/18 13:15] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): and user friendly
[2020/10/18 13:16] Rosie Gray: not sure what you mean... of course the items need to have a script in order to respond to the HUD
[2020/10/18 13:16] Almut Brunswick: when there is no receiver in the object, you can click whatever you want but the object won't do anything
[2020/10/18 13:16] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): so no need to go fishing for other methods presently
[2020/10/18 13:16] Almut Brunswick: Rosie, this is what I mean
[2020/10/18 13:16] Rosie Gray: well, of course they have them
[2020/10/18 13:17] Almut Brunswick: I'm glad when I don't need to script something by myself. Just the objects need to be equipped with a script which receives the HUDs commands and change the textures
[2020/10/18 13:17] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): There are HUDs available on the marketplace and can be used to change colours and textures
[2020/10/18 13:17] Rosie Gray: well you would need to either script them yourself, or purchase scripts that allow you to do that
[2020/10/18 13:18] Almut Brunswick: I could imagine that the satellite script with the predefined chat chanel and the commands to be understood are delivered with the HUD
[2020/10/18 13:18] Rosie Gray: may I ask why we are going down this rabbit hole?
[2020/10/18 13:18] Brooke Brandenburg: we ate some of that mushroom??
[2020/10/18 13:19] Brooke Brandenburg: sorry
[2020/10/18 13:19] Almut Brunswick: Because there was a question if I can change the seasonal textures. Then came next we are using a HUD here.
[2020/10/18 13:19] Brooke Brandenburg: yes that is typical
[2020/10/18 13:19] Lilith Ivory: /me takes her mushrooms back into inventory ;-)
[2020/10/18 13:19] Brooke Brandenburg: lol
[2020/10/18 13:19] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Can we continue with next point, I am quite tired and my back in pain here
[2020/10/18 13:19] Rosie Gray: Almut, I'm sorry to say, but the project of roads that we would need are complex, and you would need to already know how to do all these things and have examples made if you were able to do them
[2020/10/18 13:19] Almut Brunswick: Mizou, then we are two.
[2020/10/18 13:19] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): so lets proceed
[2020/10/18 13:20] Almut Brunswick: The last point is Miscellaneous
[2020/10/18 13:20] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): ok here it goes
[2020/10/18 13:20] Almut Brunswick: We were talking about a LUC excursion, Ok, Mizou, go ahead
[2020/10/18 13:20] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Ville de Coeur excursion:

1.Architecture: not much mesh, just plain buildings, nicely placed a round, a lot seem empty
2. Nature: I was not impressed at all
3. Activities: quite a lot, see their newsletter 'The Voice', if you want one i can give you a copy, as shown on the table.
4. They have water sims between their land sims and space to have boats navigating, I really think that is missing in CDS and for those of us who lived on Cosy Island that was also a big attraction point

[2020/10/18 13:20] Almut Brunswick:
[2020/10/18 13:21] Almut Brunswick: Did you have the chance to talk to somebody?
[2020/10/18 13:21] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): not many people around in fact i saw nobody
[2020/10/18 13:21] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): maybe wrong time
[2020/10/18 13:21] Almut Brunswick: I see. A well-known situation
[2020/10/18 13:22] Rosie Gray: I agree about that water point, Mizou
[2020/10/18 13:22] Brooke Brandenburg: if there is an event, there will be a lot there
[2020/10/18 13:22] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): At the moment they are having a party, i made myself member of VDC
[2020/10/18 13:22] Brooke Brandenburg: perhaps I can think of a better place next time :)
[2020/10/18 13:23] Almut Brunswick: I think it makes sense to get acquaintance to somebody official there and to ask them our questions about their strategies of land development etc.
[2020/10/18 13:23] Almut Brunswick: Brooke, we are always eager for further proposals
[2020/10/18 13:23] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): sorry but if you read what I wrote Almut, i can say that we have a much better develped land here in CDS
[2020/10/18 13:23] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): and much better builds
[2020/10/18 13:24] Brooke Brandenburg: as you are a member, you could attend one of the 'kitchen' meetings
[2020/10/18 13:24] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): they have a very extensive social life /activities
[2020/10/18 13:24] Brooke Brandenburg: but that may not be needed
[2020/10/18 13:24] Almut Brunswick: the question was also about their social life, right
[2020/10/18 13:24] Rosie Gray: and thus it wanders into territory out of the scope of the LUC
[2020/10/18 13:24] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): see the book on the table
[2020/10/18 13:24] Almut Brunswick: Rosie, we are ASLO citizens. I'm sorry to state that
[2020/10/18 13:25] Rosie Gray: of course, but this isn't the mandate of the LUC
[2020/10/18 13:25] Em Warden (emwarden): Thank you Mizou
[2020/10/18 13:25] Rosie Gray: thanks Mizou
[2020/10/18 13:25] Almut Brunswick: Noted, Rosie
[2020/10/18 13:25] Brooke Brandenburg: we were discussing ways to attract landowners
[2020/10/18 13:25] Almut Brunswick: Exactly
[2020/10/18 13:25] Rosie Gray: yes, also outside of the mandate of the LUC
[2020/10/18 13:25] Brooke Brandenburg: but of course our events do not attract big crowds
[2020/10/18 13:25] Almut Brunswick: and how that could influence our work here
[2020/10/18 13:26] Brooke Brandenburg: so, if the rest of the place is not up to snuff, then it becomes useless as an example
[2020/10/18 13:26] Almut Brunswick: I agree with that, Brooke
[2020/10/18 13:26] Rosie Gray: I see they have lots of advertisers in this
[2020/10/18 13:26] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes quite a lot
[2020/10/18 13:27] Almut Brunswick: What about businesses? Stores?
[2020/10/18 13:27] Brooke Brandenburg: yes they have those
[2020/10/18 13:27] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): again i wasn't impressed
[2020/10/18 13:28] Rosie Gray: so do we, but we don't sell much
[2020/10/18 13:28] Rosie Gray: I bet they are the same
[2020/10/18 13:28] Almut Brunswick: ok, thank you for your report
[2020/10/18 13:28] Almut Brunswick: Are we done with this point?
[2020/10/18 13:28] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes done
[2020/10/18 13:28] Brooke Brandenburg: there is a wedding business there that does very well
[2020/10/18 13:28] Brooke Brandenburg: lagging here
[2020/10/18 13:30] Almut Brunswick: Thank you. Before we step to adjourn, I would like to propose to meet in Sunday November 8 (no 1 as in the agenda), because Delia asked me to shift our meeting rhythm one week further
[2020/10/18 13:30] Almut Brunswick: this way, she could prevent time conflicts
[2020/10/18 13:30] Almut Brunswick: Are the LUC members ok with that?
[2020/10/18 13:31] Em Warden (emwarden): I have problems to make it at 12:00 Sundays
[2020/10/18 13:31] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): yes
[2020/10/18 13:31] Brooke Brandenburg: sure
[2020/10/18 13:31] Almut Brunswick: I already asked Sudane beforehand and she agreed
[2020/10/18 13:31] Em Warden (emwarden): It's ok with me
[2020/10/18 13:32] Almut Brunswick: Good then let's adjourn and meet here on November 8, 12 PM, again. I will update the CDS caledar accordingly
[2020/10/18 13:32] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Ok thanks Almut
[2020/10/18 13:32] Lilith Ivory: sorry there will be the candidates’ debate at Nov 8
[2020/10/18 13:32] Almut Brunswick: when?
[2020/10/18 13:32] Brooke Brandenburg: RA meets Tuesday Mizou, can you post transcript before then?
[2020/10/18 13:32] Lilith Ivory: I have no clue atm
[2020/10/18 13:32] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): This coming Tuesday?
[2020/10/18 13:32] Brooke Brandenburg: yes
[2020/10/18 13:32] Lilith Ivory: possibly noon
[2020/10/18 13:32] Almut Brunswick: Is it in the CDS calendar, Lilith?
[2020/10/18 13:33] Lilith Ivory: nope
[2020/10/18 13:33] Rosie Gray: so fyi, Delia has set Nov. 8 for candidates debates
[2020/10/18 13:33] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): Ok will do that tomorrow morning
[2020/10/18 13:33] Brooke Brandenburg: good
[2020/10/18 13:33] Rosie Gray: at 11 am slt
[2020/10/18 13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: is online.
[2020/10/18 13:33] Mizou (mizou.vavoom): See you all Ladies LUC :)
[2020/10/18 13:33] Almut Brunswick: 11 am should not conflict too much
[2020/10/18 13:34] Lilith Ivory: I doubt it will last less than 2 hours
[2020/10/18 13:34] Em Warden (emwarden): See you Mizou, take care
[2020/10/18 13:34] Almut Brunswick: Thank you everybody and good night to those who need to go
'Egidius, waer bestu bleven, mi lanct na di, gheselle mijn. Du coors die doot, du liets mi tleven. Dat was gheselscap, goet ende fijn.'
Gruuthuuse-handschrift -circa 1400
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