Our third meeting of the Finance Commission was held at the Alhambra Fortress Garden on July 3rd at 8:00 AM. Sudane Erato, Treasurer provided insight into our current financial situation and prospects for the future.
I urge all interested to read the transcripts, but I will attempt a short summary.
First we are doing very well financially. We currently have about $11K USD in our account, but soon will owe tier of about $2800.00.
Sudane reported that AA is probably running at a deficit. However, this is still a murky area for several reasons. Issues of some uncertainty are tier payments before for the merger and the fact that some tier for AA is paid through August 2010. At least in part the deficit in AA results from delinquencies in tier payment. (Consensus was that this could be fixed.)
Sudane also reported that technically we are not putting any money into the reserve as we do not have a budget. This prompted the issue of what the reserve actually is. Consensus was that Sudane would establish a separate account in order to keep the reserve separate from normal operating funds. Sudane hopes to have time to accomplish this in late July or August. It was not thought that this would require additional legislation. As far as funding the reserve, Sudane suggests 25 percent of revenue after taking out fixed expenses. Our fixed expenses are the monthly tier owed to LL. Given the size of the reserve, we could suspend contributions to the reserve or lower it. Sudane favors a reserve target of at least 2xs monthly tier. Her presentation gives her reasons for that target.
However, Sudane did say that the account balances grew fast owing to the lack of program spending. Naturally, being the conservative spender a treasure must be, she suggested that we WISELY spend on some programming. Naturally, this will largely fall to the cultural commissions to take charge of spending the funds allocated to them. (At earlier meetings, the consensus was that after fixed expenses, stipends, web fees, major events and estate wide events, and reserve allocations, the balance of the operating funds should be spent equally by the cultural commissions.)
Regarding a new sim, consensus was that we could still move forward with plans for a new sim. Sudane felt our reserves were strong enough, however we must plan well and be mindful of the current land situation in SL which is not very good.
Regarding collections, consensus was that we should tighten the current law. Currently, the law usually stymies the chancellor in any effort to collect paid tier and allows scofflaws an opportunity to sell land before tier is paid, thus skipping on the tier. The people present agreed that the law remove the stipulation of a pre-payment plan being in place before owners of multiple parcels can have their land seized. Further they agreed that after a two week delinquency, Rudeen would repossess all land in delinquency, but wait a full month after payment due date before items are returned and any parcel is set for sale. These changes will limit the opportunity for one to sell he land and skip on tier as the land will be under Rudeen's control after the two week grace period.
There was consensus for revamping our tier and making it follow some uniform formula based on the number of prims apportioned to each parcel. I suggested that we take up that issue at a later meeting to be held after the next RA on July 10th. Hope was expressed that a new system could be proposed before the expansion of NFS.
There was also concern of the impact of de-merging between the five original sims and the new AA sims. We asked Sudane to look into this matter and be ready for it in the event AA elects to de-merge.
I want to thank all who have participated with the Finance Commission so far. Your input has been valuable. I also encourage all to participate so we can get a fair idea of what is important to all or our citizens. Also, communication is a key to all of this. And frequent communication cannot be discounted as what we here and what we perceive are often different. I will get my report out within the week prior to he next RA meeting scheduled for July 10th.
Thanks all.
[2010/07/03 08:05] Tor Karlsvalt: So lets begin
[2010/07/03 08:05] Ranma Tardis: really this is a public meeting, it should not be needed
[2010/07/03 08:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Welcome to the third meeting of the Finance Commission.
Notice the sign behind me.
This meeting will be recorded and transcripts of this meeting will be posted to the CDS forums. If you speak at this meeting you give permission to have your recorded statements published in the public forum.
[2010/07/03 08:06] Tor Karlsvalt: just in case Ranma
[2010/07/03 08:07] Tor Karlsvalt: In our last meetings I gave out a tentative sheet showing our expected income and spending. It was an estimate only
[2010/07/03 08:07] Tor Karlsvalt: a link in in the note card
[2010/07/03 08:07] Callipygian Christensen: I don't have permission to view the spreadsheet
[2010/07/03 08:08] Tor Karlsvalt: https://spreadsheets1.google.com/ccc?ke ... l=en#gid=0
[2010/07/03 08:08] Tor Karlsvalt: that was based on info I put together from Sudanes presentation and Jamie's last budget
[2010/07/03 08:08] Callipygian Christensen: yes Tor..but I get a 'no permission to view'
[2010/07/03 08:08] Tor Karlsvalt: oh
[2010/07/03 08:09] Sudane Erato: yes, i can't see it either
[2010/07/03 08:09] Callipygian Christensen: oh..its worked from your link but wont when I cut and paste from the notecard..so..I can see it now..sorry
[2010/07/03 08:09] Lilith Ivory: hi Soro
[2010/07/03 08:10] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[2010/07/03 08:10] Sudane Erato: hi 
[2010/07/03 08:10] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[2010/07/03 08:10] Ranma Tardis: Hello SOro
[2010/07/03 08:10] Tor Karlsvalt: trying to fix this
[2010/07/03 08:11] Lilith Ivory: Hi Anna
[2010/07/03 08:11] Anna Toussaint: Hi, all
[2010/07/03 08:11] Sudane Erato: i have it now, Tor
[2010/07/03 08:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hello Lil !
[2010/07/03 08:11] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe google is just slow
[2010/07/03 08:11] Anna Toussaint: Hi, Lilly
[2010/07/03 08:11] Tor Karlsvalt: hi stui
[2010/07/03 08:11] Tor Karlsvalt: it shows anyone can open it.
[2010/07/03 08:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hi Sweetcheeks
[2010/07/03 08:12] Lilith Ivory: /me smiles at Anna and Muhammed
[2010/07/03 08:12] Anna Toussaint: Hi, Stui
[2010/07/03 08:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Well the main thing we discussed is how we would divide the money between the cultural commissions
[2010/07/03 08:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hi Anna !
[2010/07/03 08:12] Tor Karlsvalt: consensus seems to be that it should be an equal distribution
[2010/07/03 08:13] muhammedyussif Wikinger: She will be my next wife
[2010/07/03 08:13] Tor Karlsvalt: with the chancellor assessing money at mid term to reallocate if necessary
[2010/07/03 08:13] Lilith Ivory: /me nods
[2010/07/03 08:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, we talked about raising money by re-parceling the large parcel in AM
[2010/07/03 08:14] Ranma Tardis: oh why do we need more revenue?
[2010/07/03 08:14] Tor Karlsvalt: consensus on that was that we would refer this to the NG and suggest at least some of it would be prim farm land.
[2010/07/03 08:14] Tor Karlsvalt: We also tried to assess the correct size of the reserver
[2010/07/03 08:15] Tor Karlsvalt: and what the allocation toward the reserve should be
[2010/07/03 08:15] Tor Karlsvalt: currently we set aside 25 percent of the revenue after fixed expenses to the reserve
[2010/07/03 08:15] Tor Karlsvalt: so that is were we all needed more info from sudane
[2010/07/03 08:15] Sudane Erato: well, Tor,,, thats just my suggestion
[2010/07/03 08:15] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2010/07/03 08:16] Sudane Erato: i don't think that was ever really put into the budget
[2010/07/03 08:16] Tor Karlsvalt: ok see we is wasn't sure what the actual budget was
[2010/07/03 08:16] Sudane Erato: well, thats quite fair
[2010/07/03 08:16] Sudane Erato: there really is no budget now
[2010/07/03 08:16] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2010/07/03 08:17] Sudane Erato: the primary parts of it are fixed..
[2010/07/03 08:17] Sudane Erato: and that is tier to LL
[2010/07/03 08:17] Tor Karlsvalt: we don't want to make a budget here, but naturally the chancellor can use our recommendations
[2010/07/03 08:17] Sudane Erato: sure
[2010/07/03 08:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane could you give us a rundown of where we are?
[2010/07/03 08:17] Sudane Erato: hmmm
[2010/07/03 08:18] Sudane Erato: sure... but that has many facets
[2010/07/03 08:18] Sudane Erato: as far as income and expenses
[2010/07/03 08:18] Sudane Erato: we are stable
[2010/07/03 08:18] Sudane Erato: at the moment... and for most months
[2010/07/03 08:18] Sudane Erato: we have more income than expenses
[2010/07/03 08:18] Sudane Erato: often too much more
[2010/07/03 08:19] Sudane Erato: and I've always felt we should be spending more in program
[2010/07/03 08:19] Tor Karlsvalt: that is good to hear
[2010/07/03 08:19] Sudane Erato: but
[2010/07/03 08:19] Sudane Erato: this last year has been a bit complex
[2010/07/03 08:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we're rich
[2010/07/03 08:19] Sudane Erato: some months have shown a deficit
[2010/07/03 08:20] Sudane Erato: but that is because of the complexity of managing the AA tier
[2010/07/03 08:20] Sudane Erato: overall..
[2010/07/03 08:20] Sudane Erato: we are with some surplus
[2010/07/03 08:20] Sudane Erato: which means, since we don't spend it
[2010/07/03 08:20] Sudane Erato: it increases the reserve
[2010/07/03 08:20] Sudane Erato: the reserve at the end of May was just over 2.9 mil L$
[2010/07/03 08:21] Lilith Ivory: omg wow
[2010/07/03 08:21] Sudane Erato: to put that into perspective
[2010/07/03 08:21] Callipygian Christensen: the some months showing deficit - is that due to prepayment, and then is 'fixed' as tier comes in to offset it over the next months?
[2010/07/03 08:21] Pip Torok: does that mean that the trend over a year is upward level or downward, Sudane?
[2010/07/03 08:21] Sudane Erato: i must point out that we need 1 mill of that just to administer the AA sims
[2010/07/03 08:22] Sudane Erato: because of the way we must pay LL in advance
[2010/07/03 08:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that would be roughly 11K USD
[2010/07/03 08:22] Sudane Erato: so... it's not as huge as it sounds
[2010/07/03 08:22] Sudane Erato: yes
[2010/07/03 08:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2010/07/03 08:22] Ranma Tardis: is it wise to keep it in Lindens?
[2010/07/03 08:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll stop eating in RL
[2010/07/03 08:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and save up the money
[2010/07/03 08:23] Sudane Erato: Pip, the trend in the CDS has almost always been upwards... with each month showing almost always at least a small surplus
[2010/07/03 08:23] Pip Torok: thank you
[2010/07/03 08:23] Sudane Erato: is it wise to keep it in L$s?
[2010/07/03 08:23] Tor Karlsvalt: So do you think we are ok with managing the full 11 sims?
[2010/07/03 08:23] Sudane Erato: thats a complex question
[2010/07/03 08:23] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[2010/07/03 08:23] Ranma Tardis: we pay ll in dollars
[2010/07/03 08:23] Sudane Erato: yes... I think we're ok with the 1`1 sims
[2010/07/03 08:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Ranma has a good ?
[2010/07/03 08:24] Sudane Erato: 11
[2010/07/03 08:24] Tor Karlsvalt: And we could still plan a new Alpine sim?
[2010/07/03 08:24] Sudane Erato: well... we could convert the excess to a RL dollar account
[2010/07/03 08:24] Sudane Erato: but none of the safe ones pay any interest (to speak of)
[2010/07/03 08:25] Sudane Erato: i would say that financially, yes, if the sim is planned the way it should be, with attention to its cost and to the revenue that comes from it, there is no reason we should not add sims
[2010/07/03 08:25] Pip Torok: does L$/USD conversion and vice versa form an appreciable drag?
[2010/07/03 08:26] Tor Karlsvalt: that is good news.
[2010/07/03 08:26] Sudane Erato: we have the reserve... we just need to plan wisely
[2010/07/03 08:26] Sudane Erato: Pip, yes... its a prob
[2010/07/03 08:26] Tor Karlsvalt: So we could spend more on programming and still keep he reserve funded?
[2010/07/03 08:26] Sudane Erato: thats why i do it as little as possible
[2010/07/03 08:26] Sudane Erato: Tor... YES!
[2010/07/03 08:27] Tor Karlsvalt: This is important to the cultural commissions
[2010/07/03 08:27] Tor Karlsvalt: they need to use the money they are allotted.
[2010/07/03 08:27] Sudane Erato: i think the issue is that we should not run consistent deficits because of big program spending
[2010/07/03 08:27] Tor Karlsvalt: of course
[2010/07/03 08:27] Sudane Erato: but we are a ways from that
[2010/07/03 08:27] muhammedyussif Wikinger: These reserve has it been built up since many years - was it some discussion of the amount?
[2010/07/03 08:28] Sudane Erato: Muhammed, no... the reserve has built up only because the surplus funds were not spent
[2010/07/03 08:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[2010/07/03 08:28] Sudane Erato: mind you... some reserve is very important
[2010/07/03 08:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane you suggest 25 percent of expected rev to be put in reserve?
[2010/07/03 08:28] Sudane Erato: when we bought CH, it was a nightmare raising the money, since we had no reserve then
[2010/07/03 08:28] Sudane Erato: Tor, yes
[2010/07/03 08:29] Tor Karlsvalt: CH? CN right
[2010/07/03 08:29] Sudane Erato: but... I am a conservative when it comes to money... i DON"t like to worry about it
[2010/07/03 08:29] Ranma Tardis: 25 percent is excessive in rl
[2010/07/03 08:29] Sudane Erato: sorry... CN
[2010/07/03 08:29] muhammedyussif Wikinger: but it is only 25% on the surplus
[2010/07/03 08:29] Sudane Erato: Ranma... 25% of the excess after tier...
[2010/07/03 08:29] Ranma Tardis: ah ok
[2010/07/03 08:29] muhammedyussif Wikinger: not the whole revenue
[2010/07/03 08:29] Pip Torok: disagree ... we may have to choose between new sim or activities, Ranma
[2010/07/03 08:29] Tor Karlsvalt: given the state of the reserve, could we reduce the amount allocated for it. at least temporarily?
[2010/07/03 08:29] Sudane Erato: that is only a few percent
[2010/07/03 08:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I don't agree.
[2010/07/03 08:30] Ranma Tardis: we could borrow the money like in CN
[2010/07/03 08:30] Sudane Erato: well, yes Tor, but we do not "allocate" anything to it now
[2010/07/03 08:30] Tor Karlsvalt: we have the reserve that could fund beginning the new sim
[2010/07/03 08:30] Tor Karlsvalt: sim
[2010/07/03 08:30] Tor Karlsvalt: then recoup from land sales.
[2010/07/03 08:30] Sudane Erato: there is no "allocation" if there is no proper budget
[2010/07/03 08:31] Sudane Erato: yes, thats the way we should add a new sim
[2010/07/03 08:31] Tor Karlsvalt: true, we need to have a way to clearly show what is reserve and operating funds
[2010/07/03 08:31] Sudane Erato: buy it from the reserves, and pay them back with land sales
[2010/07/03 08:31] Sudane Erato: the big problem right now with a new sim..
[2010/07/03 08:31] Tor Karlsvalt: great, so ideally the reserve would only take a dip.
[2010/07/03 08:31] Sudane Erato: let me be really clear
[2010/07/03 08:32] Sudane Erato: is that land values in SL are horribly depressed
[2010/07/03 08:32] Sudane Erato: landowners cannot sell land but for a fraction of what it costs to buy from LL
[2010/07/03 08:32] Sudane Erato: this is an underlying problem
[2010/07/03 08:32] Ranma Tardis: nods
[2010/07/03 08:32] Sudane Erato: maybe Philip will understand this
[2010/07/03 08:32] Sudane Erato: Philip
[2010/07/03 08:32] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and we need to attract new ppl
[2010/07/03 08:33] Tor Karlsvalt: hi sonja
[2010/07/03 08:33] Tor Karlsvalt: welcome
[2010/07/03 08:33] Sudane Erato: if we set the value of parcels for what they cost us, everyone would scream!
[2010/07/03 08:33] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sonja
[2010/07/03 08:33] Pip Torok: hi Sonja
[2010/07/03 08:33] Ranma Tardis: got 3k of land in Caledon for free, the last owner gave it to me
[2010/07/03 08:33] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[2010/07/03 08:33] Sudane Erato: hi
[2010/07/03 08:33] Tor Karlsvalt: but tier would make up for any discount on land right?
[2010/07/03 08:34] Sudane Erato: Tor, not sure i follow?
[2010/07/03 08:34] Tor Karlsvalt: well if we had to sell new land at a discount, would;t we still make money on the tier.
[2010/07/03 08:34] Pip Torok: I think Tor's talking from a resident's POV, Sudane
[2010/07/03 08:35] Tor Karlsvalt: or recover that cost of the new sim with the tier.
[2010/07/03 08:35] Sudane Erato: ahh...
[2010/07/03 08:35] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/07/03 08:35] Sudane Erato: yes, if we did that carefully..
[2010/07/03 08:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I guess what is acceptable in SL nowadays?
[2010/07/03 08:35] Sudane Erato: lol... we have not been known as a "careful" community
[2010/07/03 08:35] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/07/03 08:35] Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
[2010/07/03 08:36] Tor Karlsvalt: are any particular types of land preferred?
[2010/07/03 08:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Well it seems we are funded well enough to consider the new sim.
[2010/07/03 08:37] Sudane Erato: yes, i'd agree
[2010/07/03 08:37] Pip Torok: is it possible that our "beauty-premium" a plus for clients' preferences?
[2010/07/03 08:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: revenue from tier - is it growing or not?
[2010/07/03 08:38] Sudane Erato: Pip... i consider that my New England sims have surely their own beauty premium
[2010/07/03 08:38] Soro Dagostino: Excuse me?
[2010/07/03 08:38] Tor Karlsvalt: And the reserve is healthy, so we could consider not putting the 25 percent toward it.
[2010/07/03 08:38] Soro Dagostino: Beauty premium?
[2010/07/03 08:38] Pip Torok: I bow before Beauty! ...
[2010/07/03 08:38] Sudane Erato: Soro, reason that people might pay more
[2010/07/03 08:38] Pip Torok: the extra cost ppl are prepared to pay for a sims "look n feel"
[2010/07/03 08:39] Soro Dagostino: kk
[2010/07/03 08:39] Ranma Tardis: well most sims in sl are just outright UGLY
[2010/07/03 08:39] Pip Torok: my point exactly (if more bluntly put) Ranma .... 
[2010/07/03 08:40] Soro Dagostino: At least those that do not have well considered covenants.
[2010/07/03 08:40] Tor Karlsvalt: true, so Sudane, do you know how much tier we will have to pay in July?
[2010/07/03 08:40] Sudane Erato: how much tier?....
[2010/07/03 08:40] Sudane Erato: to LL?
[2010/07/03 08:41] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[2010/07/03 08:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I think GEN and ALH will be at least 1770.00 USD
[2010/07/03 08:41] Sudane Erato: I know that the old CDS sims will pay about 300,000/ about 1075 USD
[2010/07/03 08:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: are income from tiers higher or lower seen over time?
[2010/07/03 08:41] Sudane Erato: and, yes about GEN and ALH
[2010/07/03 08:41] Pip Torok: (what is GEN and ALH btw?)
[2010/07/03 08:42] Sudane Erato: muhammed, tier income over the long time is higher
[2010/07/03 08:42] Sudane Erato: Generalife
[2010/07/03 08:42] Tor Karlsvalt: so about 2845 usd
[2010/07/03 08:42] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[2010/07/03 08:42] Sudane Erato: and AlAlhambra
[2010/07/03 08:42] Pip Torok: ah ... tks
[2010/07/03 08:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Al generalife and Alhambra
[2010/07/03 08:42] Tor Karlsvalt: so our reserve then will be about 11,000-2845
[2010/07/03 08:43] Tor Karlsvalt: or abt 8155 usd
[2010/07/03 08:43] Sudane Erato: i haven't calculated that... i simply know we have enough
[2010/07/03 08:43] Tor Karlsvalt: So that is still a lot of money.
[2010/07/03 08:44] Sudane Erato: my concern now is the trend over months, rather than just one month
[2010/07/03 08:44] Sudane Erato: yes
[2010/07/03 08:44] Soro Dagostino: It seems to me we shouldn't stop building reserves -- its our bank.
[2010/07/03 08:44] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if the merger breaks - how will that influence the two economies?
[2010/07/03 08:45] Tor Karlsvalt: And we talked earlier and we still don't have full info on if AA will break even.
[2010/07/03 08:45] Sudane Erato: Soro, i agree... only we should build them slower and with more calculation
[2010/07/03 08:46] Tor Karlsvalt: yes I agree.
[2010/07/03 08:46] Soro Dagostino: I don't have a problem with that.
[2010/07/03 08:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we need to target what we need in the reserve first.
[2010/07/03 08:46] Sudane Erato: well, muhammed, if the merger does not happen... i can only speak for the CDS original sims
[2010/07/03 08:46] Sudane Erato: and they will be fine
[2010/07/03 08:46] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[2010/07/03 08:47] Tor Karlsvalt: and then the mount we apply to that can very with how close we are to that target
[2010/07/03 08:47] Pip Torok: I take it that one of Rose, delia or Micael only can talk for AA , muh
[2010/07/03 08:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane how much do we really need in the reserve.
[2010/07/03 08:47] Callipygian Christensen: I thought I read somewhere in the code that reserve was to be 2 months of operating expenses - the cushion for operation in the event of no income for a period..wa that changed at some point?
[2010/07/03 08:47] Sudane Erato: well, Calli, as I said
[2010/07/03 08:47] Sudane Erato: the reserve has not been planned
[2010/07/03 08:47] Tor Karlsvalt: the code really only seems to require one month.
[2010/07/03 08:48] Sudane Erato: it is simply our unused money
[2010/07/03 08:48] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane, how would you feel about the RA asking for the reserve and operating funds to be kept separate?
[2010/07/03 08:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I think that would help with planning.
[2010/07/03 08:49] Sudane Erato: i think thats a great idea
[2010/07/03 08:49] Tor Karlsvalt: does that have to be placed in code?
[2010/07/03 08:49] Sudane Erato: and... in August, when my life returns to somewhat normal... I'll set that up
[2010/07/03 08:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok good.
[2010/07/03 08:50] Sudane Erato: i don't think so
[2010/07/03 08:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: are not the economy of AA and the old CDS integrated now?
[2010/07/03 08:50] Sudane Erato: yes they are
[2010/07/03 08:50] Sudane Erato: but I have tracked the tier collections and payments of the old CDS and AA separately
[2010/07/03 08:50] Tor Karlsvalt: But Sudane mentioned to me that there are some issues with actually knowing who is paying tier timely in AA.
[2010/07/03 08:50] Sudane Erato: since they use totally different systems
[2010/07/03 08:51] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[2010/07/03 08:51] Callipygian Christensen: If the merger is dissolved , how much will the treasury owe to the departing AA ?
[2010/07/03 08:51] Tor Karlsvalt: while we are on this subject I feel we need to tighten the rules about tier collection.
[2010/07/03 08:51] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if the merger continue - will there be the same methods for tier payment then?
[2010/07/03 08:51] Tor Karlsvalt: good question calli
[2010/07/03 08:51] Sudane Erato: oh god Calli
[2010/07/03 08:52] Sudane Erato: i don't want to think about that calculation
[2010/07/03 08:52] Sudane Erato: but... its unclear who would owe who
[2010/07/03 08:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: 65 million thousand lindens is my cut of the amount
[2010/07/03 08:52] Sudane Erato: i guess it would depend on the date of the separation
[2010/07/03 08:52] Tor Karlsvalt: we probably have to consider that tho Sudane.
[2010/07/03 08:52] Sudane Erato: yes
[2010/07/03 08:53] Sudane Erato: but, again... i think the reserve is sufficient for that possibility
[2010/07/03 08:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I hate to think of it but...
[2010/07/03 08:53] Sudane Erato: and... the old CDS sims are fundamentally healthy
[2010/07/03 08:53] Sudane Erato: they have consistent surplus, and a healthy reserve
[2010/07/03 08:54] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, if tightening the rules of tier collection means changing the policy of warning and reclamation I think that has to be passed by RA -if it's just applying the policy as it stands, a much simpler thing I am guessing
[2010/07/03 08:54] Ranma Tardis: is non payment a problem?
[2010/07/03 08:55] Tor Karlsvalt: yes calli, but the law now really is bad
[2010/07/03 08:55] Sudane Erato: Ranma, it has been at times
[2010/07/03 08:55] Tor Karlsvalt: the gov't has no power to legally coerce payment
[2010/07/03 08:55] Callipygian Christensen: I'd agree Tor - way too long a process
[2010/07/03 08:55] Sudane Erato: it's very hard to move against non-payers
[2010/07/03 08:55] Tor Karlsvalt: we need to tighten it up
[2010/07/03 08:55] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the number of parcels should not matter.
[2010/07/03 08:56] Sudane Erato: yes, Sonja and I worked on that last term
[2010/07/03 08:56] Sudane Erato: but we didn't get there
[2010/07/03 08:56] Tor Karlsvalt: that needs to be removed from the current law.
[2010/07/03 08:56] Pip Torok: is moving in that way a prerogative of the Chancellor?
[2010/07/03 08:56] Tor Karlsvalt: nor should the need to establish a pre-payment method matter
[2010/07/03 08:56] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if the merger continue - will there be the same methods for tier payment then?
[2010/07/03 08:57] Tor Karlsvalt: We need to just remove rights on parcels after two weeks and seize after a month.
[2010/07/03 08:57] Sonja Strom: /me is looking up prerogative in the dictionary
[2010/07/03 08:57] Tor Karlsvalt: does anyone think I am too harsh?
[2010/07/03 08:57] Pip Torok: (=ability or choice to act:)
[2010/07/03 08:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[2010/07/03 08:57] Sudane Erato: haha
[2010/07/03 08:58] Pip Torok: not me Tor
[2010/07/03 08:58] Sudane Erato: I'd be worse than you... in NE I repossess the next day, to make sure they don't sell out from under me
[2010/07/03 08:58] Tor Karlsvalt: so we could propose to change the current law as I stated.
[2010/07/03 08:58] Soro Dagostino: The issue is who is to enforce.
[2010/07/03 08:58] Callipygian Christensen: My recollection is that the treasurer reports a parcel in arrears, the Chancellor officially evicts and then the EO is directed to reclaim
[2010/07/03 08:58] Tor Karlsvalt: well Sudane, can't we just take rights away first?
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sudane Erato: Calli, yes, thats kind of the way we did it with Jamie
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sudane Erato: well, Tor
[2010/07/03 08:59] Tor Karlsvalt: Keep the ownership in place but no rights
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sonja Strom: Pip, I brought a request to simplify this law to the RA two times
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sudane Erato: thats what is accomplished by re-possession
[2010/07/03 08:59] Botanical Updates and Releases: Please read the attached notecard for important information regarding the Botanical/Straylight Update Group
[2010/07/03 08:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: it should be better if we could pay tiers in advance
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sonja Strom: I am still hoping we can do that
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sudane Erato: when i repossess, i don't do anything to the parcel
[2010/07/03 08:59] Tor Karlsvalt: ok but not return anything right?
[2010/07/03 08:59] Sudane Erato: exactly
[2010/07/03 08:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if you are on a long journey
[2010/07/03 08:59] Tor Karlsvalt: ok good
[2010/07/03 08:59] Lilith Ivory: I know if someone has problems with paying tier the person can always talk to Sudane ..
[2010/07/03 09:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: journey
[2010/07/03 09:00] Lilith Ivory: if they don't we should show no mercy hehe
[2010/07/03 09:00] Sudane Erato: yes Lilith... i've always asked that
[2010/07/03 09:00] Sudane Erato: but people don't
[2010/07/03 09:00] Sonja Strom: I agree
[2010/07/03 09:00] Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
[2010/07/03 09:00] Tor Karlsvalt: well you would still have a month to pay before we set it for sale/
[2010/07/03 09:00] Sudane Erato: I guess i just seem like a cruel ogre
[2010/07/03 09:00] Ranma Tardis: our residents are worth more in the long run, what is a sim without its residents?
[2010/07/03 09:00] Sonja Strom: /me smiles
[2010/07/03 09:00] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/07/03 09:00] Sudane Erato:
[2010/07/03 09:00] Lilith Ivory: i can't understand why
[2010/07/03 09:01] Ranma Tardis: too harsh and we drive people away
[2010/07/03 09:01] Ranma Tardis: sometimes a person forgets
[2010/07/03 09:01] Tor Karlsvalt: I don't think we would be too harsh.
[2010/07/03 09:01] Lilith Ivory: too lazy and nobody wants to pay
[2010/07/03 09:01] Sudane Erato: a person has never been evicted simply for forgetting
[2010/07/03 09:01] Pip Torok: /me agrees
[2010/07/03 09:02] Sudane Erato: indeed, there are 8 reminders each month!
[2010/07/03 09:02] Tor Karlsvalt: From what I heard, we have been stuck holding the bag when some resell.
[2010/07/03 09:02] Sudane Erato: hard to forget
[2010/07/03 09:02] Soro Dagostino: Hehe
[2010/07/03 09:02] Ranma Tardis: for AA too? am still looking for my box
[2010/07/03 09:02] Tor Karlsvalt: do the reminders stop tho when you take possession?
[2010/07/03 09:02] Lilith Ivory: /me smiles
[2010/07/03 09:02] Sudane Erato: yes, sometimes a person will not pay for several months, and then just sell
[2010/07/03 09:03] Sudane Erato: Tor, the reminders happen regardless of the repossession
[2010/07/03 09:03] Tor Karlsvalt: see then we lost two months tier AND the sale price on the land
[2010/07/03 09:03] Callipygian Christensen: The reality is that everyone renting is an adult and is responsible for remembering and meeting their obligations - it's not harsh to enforce that, it's good business practice.
[2010/07/03 09:03] Pip Torok: /me hopes that doesn't happen often
[2010/07/03 09:03] Tor Karlsvalt: ok good
[2010/07/03 09:03] Sudane Erato: Calli, i totally agree
[2010/07/03 09:03] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree Calli
[2010/07/03 09:03] Tor Karlsvalt: and when we wait we loose.
[2010/07/03 09:04] Sudane Erato: yes
[2010/07/03 09:04] Sudane Erato: the rules have been based on RL law
[2010/07/03 09:04] Tor Karlsvalt: So we will propose an amendment to the current law.
[2010/07/03 09:04] Callipygian Christensen: Is not knowing how or where to pay an issue (noticing what Ranma said there)
[2010/07/03 09:04] Sudane Erato: where multiple notices are required to repossess a person's home
[2010/07/03 09:04] Ranma Tardis: will find it today, am still a new landowner
[2010/07/03 09:05] Soro Dagostino: Why is there a need to change the law.
[2010/07/03 09:05] Tor Karlsvalt: We need to have someone get in touch with new owners soon after purchase
[2010/07/03 09:05] Callipygian Christensen: well in RL law you have the option of suing for arrears when they depart in the night, here we don't
[2010/07/03 09:05] Soro Dagostino: It seems to be working now?
[2010/07/03 09:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the big problem was for large land holders.
[2010/07/03 09:05] Ranma Tardis: well we could but it would not be worth the effort 
[2010/07/03 09:06] Tor Karlsvalt: they were somehow made almost immune from collections
[2010/07/03 09:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I would still like to talk about the reserve for just amount tho
[2010/07/03 09:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane, do you think we could plan to put only say 10 percent aside for reserve?
[2010/07/03 09:07] Tor Karlsvalt: we can leave this up to the chancellor too.
[2010/07/03 09:07] Soro Dagostino: That's not much.
[2010/07/03 09:07] Pip Torok: I take it that EO's have a standard arrangement with LL for that eventuality?
[2010/07/03 09:08] Tor Karlsvalt: well I think it needs to flexible
[2010/07/03 09:08] Tor Karlsvalt: and if we have over 8000 USD already we don't need to keep putting money into it at a hight rate
[2010/07/03 09:08] Sudane Erato: Tor, in any given budget, we could put aise no reserve...
[2010/07/03 09:08] Sudane Erato: my concern is longer term policy
[2010/07/03 09:09] Sudane Erato: but
[2010/07/03 09:09] Tor Karlsvalt: well maybe we could establish a target for the reserve
[2010/07/03 09:09] Callipygian Christensen: I think the method of saying some multiple of monthly operating costs is a sensible way - and thus automatically allows for the reserve target to increase if sims are added. The need may be to identify what percentage of monthly surplus transfers over to reserve to reach that amount
[2010/07/03 09:09] Sudane Erato: there is no "putting aside" unless there are other budgeted expenditures FROM which you are putting it aside
[2010/07/03 09:09] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree to that
[2010/07/03 09:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me says hello
[2010/07/03 09:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
[2010/07/03 09:09] Pip Torok: for information 2 months op reserve = 16.67% reserve
[2010/07/03 09:09] Sudane Erato: hi
[2010/07/03 09:10] Tor Karlsvalt: hi gwyn
[2010/07/03 09:10] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[2010/07/03 09:10] Ranma Tardis: Hi Gwen
[2010/07/03 09:10] Pip Torok: hi Gwyneth
[2010/07/03 09:10] Soro Dagostino: /hello Gwyn
[2010/07/03 09:10] Tor Karlsvalt: so we are over funded in the reserver now.
[2010/07/03 09:10] Tor Karlsvalt: by alot.
[2010/07/03 09:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not advocating we go on a shopping holiday.
[2010/07/03 09:11] Ranma Tardis: we could always donate to charity like the cancer fund
[2010/07/03 09:11] Soro Dagostino: I don't think so, given the issues facing SL.
[2010/07/03 09:11] Tor Karlsvalt: that is an idea
[2010/07/03 09:11] Pip Torok: /me likes the idea of "donating" to a new sim!
[2010/07/03 09:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane, will we ever owe taxes on profits in CDS?
[2010/07/03 09:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe that's a decision for the RA
[2010/07/03 09:12] Sudane Erato: well... we ARE a charity, in essence, since we operate to no person's profit. I don't think we should be giving to other charities
[2010/07/03 09:12] Sudane Erato: Tor, no
[2010/07/03 09:12] Soro Dagostino: I agree.
[2010/07/03 09:12] Pip Torok: /me agrees
[2010/07/03 09:12] Soro Dagostino: brb -- afk for a little.
[2010/07/03 09:12] Ranma Tardis: giggles as long as we rl people do not take real money from it we should be ok
[2010/07/03 09:13] Tor Karlsvalt: WE can support charities tho like the RFL.
[2010/07/03 09:13] Pip Torok: /me feels his inner Scrooge growling ... :[
[2010/07/03 09:14] Tor Karlsvalt: So we can reduce some costs and not affect the reserve.
[2010/07/03 09:14] Callipygian Christensen: So a recommendation that a reserve amount be set, and kept in a separate account, then allocation of a percentage of the chunk left to various cultural commissions and to large events like Octoberfest etc - along with tightening repossession laws..is that what I am hearing so far?
[2010/07/03 09:14] Tor Karlsvalt: say we reduce the 25 percent contribution and just lower land prices on re-sales.
[2010/07/03 09:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Sudane I think so
[2010/07/03 09:14] Ranma Tardis: more like can we sell the land at all
[2010/07/03 09:14] Ranma Tardis: ?
[2010/07/03 09:15] Pip Torok: to be seen, Ranma ... to be seen
[2010/07/03 09:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the cultural commissions need to be encouraged to use there money.
[2010/07/03 09:15] Tor Karlsvalt: they need to come up with ideas on events or activities.
[2010/07/03 09:16] Sudane Erato: please let me repeat... we are not "contributing" actively anything to the reserves
[2010/07/03 09:16] Ranma Tardis: we do need to be civil to each other, rl is getting bad this needs to be our refuge
[2010/07/03 09:16] Lilith Ivory: what about equalizing the tier prize per prim in all Sims?
[2010/07/03 09:16] Callipygian Christensen: well to do that they need to know what their budget is
[2010/07/03 09:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I understand.
[2010/07/03 09:16] Sudane Erato: they are growing simply because we don't spend out surplus
[2010/07/03 09:16] Ranma Tardis: we need to wait until the outcome of the merger
[2010/07/03 09:16] Sudane Erato: Lilith, i like that idea... although there might be some refinements
[2010/07/03 09:17] Tor Karlsvalt: we either need to spend or reduce tier. or both maybe
[2010/07/03 09:17] Lilith Ivory: I´m aware it might not be easy
[2010/07/03 09:17] Sudane Erato: i don't think we should change tier rates at this time
[2010/07/03 09:17] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea
[2010/07/03 09:17] Sudane Erato: but
[2010/07/03 09:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we should keep it ready for the *next* sim
[2010/07/03 09:17] Tor Karlsvalt: that might be a meeting just to discuss that
[2010/07/03 09:17] Sudane Erato: we certainly should be WISELY spending more than we are now
[2010/07/03 09:18] Pip Torok: with luck we cd do both at once, gwyn
[2010/07/03 09:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me hopes that expanding the CDS is a wise decision
[2010/07/03 09:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods* @ Pip
[2010/07/03 09:18] Sudane Erato:
[2010/07/03 09:18] Tor Karlsvalt: So perhaps we can look at that later in july or August
[2010/07/03 09:19] Tor Karlsvalt: I do like the idea of using pirms to come up with a formula for tier.
[2010/07/03 09:19] Sudane Erato: yes
[2010/07/03 09:19] Sudane Erato: prims are the true basis of economic value in SL
[2010/07/03 09:19] Ranma Tardis: well prims are tied to lot size so it is already done
[2010/07/03 09:19] Sudane Erato: they are based on computer server resources
[2010/07/03 09:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Boy have i learned that.
[2010/07/03 09:20] Tor Karlsvalt: hi cleo
[2010/07/03 09:20] Tor Karlsvalt: we are probably winding up here
[2010/07/03 09:20] Pip Torok: /me wonders how the monthly bill will pan out ?
[2010/07/03 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me winks
[2010/07/03 09:20] Sudane Erato: we can adjust the number of prims per parcel
[2010/07/03 09:20] Lilith Ivory: hi Cleo
[2010/07/03 09:20] Sudane Erato: but not the number of prims per $295/month sim
[2010/07/03 09:20] Tor Karlsvalt: true haha
[2010/07/03 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if someone is kind enough to maybe give me chat if they can id appreciate it
[2010/07/03 09:20] Callipygian Christensen: only at the sim level though Sudane?
[2010/07/03 09:21] Sudane Erato: yes
[2010/07/03 09:21] Lilith Ivory: imo a prim is more expensive in CN than it is in AM 
[2010/07/03 09:21] Pip Torok: /me feels better!
[2010/07/03 09:21] Tor Karlsvalt: hey sudane do you have an opinion on prim land or charging for additional prims?
[2010/07/03 09:21] Ranma Tardis: well one costs more in tier than the other and they operate on different type servers, ah right?
[2010/07/03 09:21] Sudane Erato: well... no opinion... only that the sim should have a calculated design
[2010/07/03 09:22] Sudane Erato: AM and LA are double prim sims
[2010/07/03 09:22] Sudane Erato: hence, no prim parcels
[2010/07/03 09:22] Sudane Erato: you get twice as many prims for the same square meters
[2010/07/03 09:22] Callipygian Christensen: well since prims cost less to purchase from LL in the non-profit sims, there should ultimately be a benefit to the non n-p parcels if you equalize cost per prim over the whole land mass
[2010/07/03 09:22] Sudane Erato: no system is not better than another
[2010/07/03 09:22] Lilith Ivory: I know and I might be wrong but I still think one prim is more expensive in CN than it is in AM
[2010/07/03 09:23] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2010/07/03 09:23] Sudane Erato: Calli, I'm not sure
[2010/07/03 09:23] Callipygian Christensen: and by equalize I mean 'identify a cost per prim', not just bump up to the highest existing
[2010/07/03 09:23] Sudane Erato: it depends on the design of each sim
[2010/07/03 09:23] Sonja Strom: Calli, some of the original CDS sims have low cost to LL because of their age.
[2010/07/03 09:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes.
[2010/07/03 09:23] Sudane Erato: on this sim, for example, there is a huge proportion of prims going for public purposes
[2010/07/03 09:24] Tor Karlsvalt: I can work on that and give all a spreadsheet of what it is now.
[2010/07/03 09:24] Lilith Ivory: I see
[2010/07/03 09:24] Callipygian Christensen: /me nods to Sonja - I am thinking in the broad sense of 'how many prims in total are generating income, how much income is desired, and then divide and come up with a universal cost per prim
[2010/07/03 09:24] Lilith Ivory: for me it's ok to pay for public prims also
[2010/07/03 09:24] Tor Karlsvalt: well in NFS and AA for sure.
[2010/07/03 09:25] Callipygian Christensen: that builds in the fact that there are 'public' prims that everyone pays for
[2010/07/03 09:25] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[2010/07/03 09:25] Sudane Erato: Calli, yes.... but should we do that per sim, or over the entire estate?
[2010/07/03 09:25] muhammedyussif Wikinger: will this meeting finish in five minutes?
[2010/07/03 09:25] Pip Torok: like the idea calli but IMO a im-based cost per prim cd be better
[2010/07/03 09:25] Callipygian Christensen: I'd think the entire estate Sudane
[2010/07/03 09:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if AA sells some of its public land who gets the proceeds, all of CDS ?? like they get our reserves.. or just AA or rose??
[2010/07/03 09:25] Tor Karlsvalt: but then also, everyone ins CDS benefits from public land in AM or AA.
[2010/07/03 09:25] Pip Torok: *im-based=sim-based
[2010/07/03 09:26] Tor Karlsvalt: so some of that cost perhaps should be spread around.
[2010/07/03 09:26] Callipygian Christensen: this is a 'whole' where finances are concerned , so calculations should address the whole
[2010/07/03 09:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so AA had no reserves, now they have access to the 7k thousand usd CDS had and we owe their debts too?
[2010/07/03 09:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so i understand
[2010/07/03 09:26] Soro Dagostino: I think this is a little preliminary
[2010/07/03 09:26] Ranma Tardis: not sure if it is that easy, non citizens benefit from public builds too
[2010/07/03 09:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so if rose decides to sell off her land does she gets the money or do we get it like they got our money?
[2010/07/03 09:27] Tor Karlsvalt: well Cleo we still have incomplete info on AA.
[2010/07/03 09:27] Soro Dagostino: We came together at this meeting to talk about reserves
[2010/07/03 09:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cleo if you'd ever bothered to listen
[2010/07/03 09:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: as AA is a non profit owned space
[2010/07/03 09:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i wasn't here stui , you don't have to be rude to me
[2010/07/03 09:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if it's sold up
[2010/07/03 09:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the proceeds go to charity
[2010/07/03 09:27] Soro Dagostino: And the talk of prim changes is premature \
[2010/07/03 09:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: non profit in the USA does NOT mean no one profits
[2010/07/03 09:27] Tor Karlsvalt: yes lets not make personal attacks.
[2010/07/03 09:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Stui a non profit is NOT a charity
[2010/07/03 09:28] Pip Torok: /me agrees fully with Tor
[2010/07/03 09:28] Tor Karlsvalt: all of us need clarification at times
[2010/07/03 09:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they aren't he same thing..
[2010/07/03 09:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes and i have worked for a non profit for decades
[2010/07/03 09:28] Tor Karlsvalt: we were winging up anyway
[2010/07/03 09:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: will this meeting end in two minutes?
[2010/07/03 09:28] Tor Karlsvalt: i think we have some good things
[2010/07/03 09:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll hold my tongue not because there isn't something to say but that others would prefer it
[2010/07/03 09:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: non profit is a thing that you people obviously do not understand at all, it doesn't go to charity
[2010/07/03 09:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thank you stui
[2010/07/03 09:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane will work on separating the operating funds from the reserve
[2010/07/03 09:29] Sudane Erato: yes, i will
[2010/07/03 09:29] Tor Karlsvalt: we well suggest a change to the collections law as discussed
[2010/07/03 09:29] Sudane Erato: its a great idea
[2010/07/03 09:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia:
[2010/07/03 09:30] Tor Karlsvalt: and we will consider the prim value scheme later in the month or next month.
[2010/07/03 09:30] Ranma Tardis: how about the reserve being in us dollars as a precaution to ll insolvency
[2010/07/03 09:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: good
[2010/07/03 09:30] Tor Karlsvalt: that might be done when sudane sets it up separately.
[2010/07/03 09:30] Pip Torok: (good thinking, Ranma ...)
[2010/07/03 09:31] Soro Dagostino: Lets get it set first. and then decide the currency.
[2010/07/03 09:31] Sudane Erato: actually Ranma, I am open to all suggestions of where we might put funds in US$s
[2010/07/03 09:31] Tor Karlsvalt: so I will make a summary report for RA
[2010/07/03 09:31] Sudane Erato: but... i have not seen anything yet that actually is to our benefit
[2010/07/03 09:31] Tor Karlsvalt: RA meets on the 10th
[2010/07/03 09:31] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Since we are buying in L$ it is better to keep them L$
[2010/07/03 09:31] Pip Torok: don't agree muh for reasons we've discussed here
[2010/07/03 09:32] Soro Dagostino: At least until we see what happens to Linden Labs.
[2010/07/03 09:32] Ranma Tardis: well there are a number of large banks in the US and citizens of the us here
[2010/07/03 09:32] Sudane Erato:
[2010/07/03 09:32] Sudane Erato: yes, there are
[2010/07/03 09:32] Tor Karlsvalt: well we can look at the currency issue later when Sudane sets up the separate acct.
[2010/07/03 09:32] Callipygian Christensen: Back a ways in this meeting was also the question of settling accounts if the merger is dissolved - I think that is something that is a concern - so that neither party is at risk due to delay in working out the numbers if that happens
[2010/07/03 09:32] Ranma Tardis: why us dollars, well our tier is in dollars
[2010/07/03 09:32] Ranma Tardis: maybe the breakup will not happen
[2010/07/03 09:32] Soro Dagostino: Certainly not in Euro bonds.
[2010/07/03 09:33] Tor Karlsvalt: OK Calli
[2010/07/03 09:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS's savings should be protected
[2010/07/03 09:33] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane, I think you are going to have to come up with some report on that issue
[2010/07/03 09:33] Sudane Erato: sorry, which issue?
[2010/07/03 09:33] Tor Karlsvalt: the possibility of de-merge
[2010/07/03 09:34] Sudane Erato: ahh
[2010/07/03 09:34] Ranma Tardis: we need to think as a single community
[2010/07/03 09:34] Tor Karlsvalt: and what will be owed to AA citizens.
[2010/07/03 09:34] Ranma Tardis: doing otherwise makes breakup a probability
[2010/07/03 09:34] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Ranma, but reality is......
[2010/07/03 09:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: AA would owe CDS i think
[2010/07/03 09:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have operated at a profit, always
[2010/07/03 09:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they operate at a loss
[2010/07/03 09:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm wait, wasn't the date for deciding on the merger July 1?
[2010/07/03 09:35] Soro Dagostino: Do you have a basis for that?
[2010/07/03 09:35] Sudane Erato: this is all a very political issue... the decisions about money should FOLLOW the political decisions, not PRCEDE them
[2010/07/03 09:35] Tor Karlsvalt: not really
[2010/07/03 09:35] Tor Karlsvalt: it is July 22
[2010/07/03 09:35] Callipygian Christensen: Ranma, I agree, but also recognize that at this point in time dissolution *is* a possibility so that has to be considered too :/
[2010/07/03 09:35] Ranma Tardis: you are correct my friend!
[2010/07/03 09:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 22? Hmm
[2010/07/03 09:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they decisions about money that was CDS's should not be decided by AA
[2010/07/03 09:35] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it was 7 days after the relocation of the sims
[2010/07/03 09:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thats like getting married and the poor person writing the pre nup
[2010/07/03 09:35] Ranma Tardis: afraid I do not usually think in political terms
[2010/07/03 09:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS is politics
[2010/07/03 09:36] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Soon I have to leave
[2010/07/03 09:36] Ranma Tardis: like to think it is more
[2010/07/03 09:36] Tor Karlsvalt: well the poorest person usually gets a settlement.
[2010/07/03 09:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: haha tor!!
[2010/07/03 09:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not if the rich one writes the prenup
[2010/07/03 09:36] Callipygian Christensen: Cleo - since Sudane is the treasurer, so I am more inclined to go with her information about finances than yours
[2010/07/03 09:36] Ranma Tardis: the amounts are not that large
[2010/07/03 09:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: what amounts are not large
[2010/07/03 09:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: It smells good from the kitchen
[2010/07/03 09:37] Ranma Tardis: the CDS amounts
[2010/07/03 09:37] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2010/07/03 09:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hello
[2010/07/03 09:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane, maybe you should at least consider how you would recommend a de-merge
[2010/07/03 09:37] Ranma Tardis: you should see my cleaning bill in rl
[2010/07/03 09:37] Sudane Erato: ok... i'll give it some thought
[2010/07/03 09:37] Callipygian Christensen: Invite us all over then muhammed!:)
[2010/07/03 09:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Sudane, CDS has .. 7k usd, the cost to replace the sims and we have profit
[2010/07/03 09:37] Tor Karlsvalt: we can leave it at that
[2010/07/03 09:37] Sudane Erato: but i think everyone should too
[2010/07/03 09:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thats a lot of money to me!!!
[2010/07/03 09:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: please come but fast
[2010/07/03 09:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how much profit per month is CDS operating at without AA?
[2010/07/03 09:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: plus our 7k in cash
[2010/07/03 09:38] Tor Karlsvalt: at this point I would like the question settled one way or another asap.
[2010/07/03 09:38] Ranma Tardis: but the CDS did not buy the sims or did it?
[2010/07/03 09:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the AA sims? no
[2010/07/03 09:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Dinner is ready to eat - bye for now dear friends
[2010/07/03 09:38] Sudane Erato: bye Muhammed!
[2010/07/03 09:38] Ranma Tardis: be well my friend
[2010/07/03 09:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have a wonderful dinner, muhammed
[2010/07/03 09:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the CDS sims we bought and built.
[2010/07/03 09:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: by muhammed
[2010/07/03 09:38] Sonja Strom: bye muhammed
[2010/07/03 09:38] Soro Dagostino: Enjoy Muhammed
[2010/07/03 09:38] Tor Karlsvalt: no and one could argue that they are a great gift to CDS.
[2010/07/03 09:38] Tor Karlsvalt: bye muh
[2010/07/03 09:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are not "giving " us the sims you are taking control of us
[2010/07/03 09:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: if you were giving us the sims you wouldn't control RA and the SC
[2010/07/03 09:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. An interesting suggestion would be to buy the AA sims hehe
[2010/07/03 09:39] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not doing anything like that
[2010/07/03 09:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: prior to taking our reserves
[2010/07/03 09:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we should buy them!!!
[2010/07/03 09:39] Soro Dagostino: Cleo -- your flat wrong.
[2010/07/03 09:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is just joking
[2010/07/03 09:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it would be a better deal
[2010/07/03 09:39] Tor Karlsvalt: well I think we can call the meeting over at this point
