Work on the Election Commission has been slow because of the difficulties of meeting, so, although there were just two people attending,we've still went ahead and discussed some of the issues.
A few suggestions have been made so far:
1. Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit, trying to keep a balance between limiting spam and allowing free access of candidates to do their campaigning. The RA might pass further legislation regarding campaigning, to be enforced by the SC.
2. Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice, with an attached notecard, announcing their candidacy and stating their platform; no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed. However, if candidates wish to "sponsor" a general event and use it to raise awareness as candidates, that's fine — as an event, it will be announced as usually.
3. Each candidate should be allowed to post their own notice.
4. The SC should collect notecards/pictures from candidates and set up a board (possibly at several locations) where citizens can learn about what the candidates stand for. This is non-intrusive and gives all a fair chance.
5. The first meeting of the RA is the inauguration ceremony, during which the SC administers the oath to the newly-elected RA. It shall be called by the Chancellor, as it's a public event, but it will also have as the first agenda meeting the election of the new LRA. The Chancellor shall establish the best date for a meeting until a week after the election results were announced.
[09:42] Callipygian Christensen: so..I a tring to recall the highlights of what points the commission is hoping to cover
[09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure... let me copy and paste
[09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (quite a lot actually!)
[09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Explaining the voting system better
[09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Campaigning.
[09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Role of the SC in the election process.
[09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. Leader of the Representative Assembly (LRA)
[09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. how the LRA is selected/elected
[09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5. Citizen eligibility and dates
[09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this ought to be clear, but if it isn't, this is the place to review!)
[09:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6. Chancellor election
[09:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the possibility of universal suffrage and not collegial voting)
[09:44] Callipygian Christensen: do you think that item 1 will result in more actual voting?
[09:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7: Suggesting a limit of successive mandates.
[09:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (feel free to take a seat as soon as something rezzes for you!)
[09:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is just an opinion... I don't think so, it will just make people more comfortable about understanding how things work.
[09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it's also important that they know why they vote and how 
[09:46] Callipygian Christensen: which of these do you feel area priority
[09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: More reference material...
[09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2951
[09:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would hope to discuss the priorities on these meetings hehe
[09:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The major reason for the commission was really the snafus during the last election,
[09:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. campaigning, eligibility, and how the SC was seen to interfere,
[09:47] Callipygian Christensen: well that whole 'interfere' thing is rather a silly choice of words
[09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and after the elections were over, it was unclear who would call the first RA meeting, as this is something done by the LRA.... which is only elected during that first meeting
[09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Calli
[09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *asked* the SC to make a decision!
[09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... since we couldn't agree!
[09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's not interfering lol
[09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, but *some* saw it as "unnecessary meddling"
[09:49] Callipygian Christensen: exactly..people
[09:49] Callipygian Christensen: it seems to me that the SC is the perfect group to administer
[09:49] Callipygian Christensen: they are meant to be theobjectivecheck and balance
[09:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, that's the kind of change that would be an excellent recommendation from this meeting
[09:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *commission
[09:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *traditionally*, the RA sets the dates for the next election, and the Chancellor is supposed to "oversee" that everything is done
[09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why the Chancellor?.... Well, because mostly they have managing powers to set up areas for campaigning, setting up booths, etc, while the SC usually has not.
[09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but...
[09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Chancellor is "political" and not really "neutral" or "objective"
[09:51] Callipygian Christensen: its pretty clear in the current situation anyway, and no doubt has been so in the past, that the chancellor is not always a neutral party..no one on the RA is of course..
[09:51] Callipygian Christensen: haha..get out of my keyboard woman
[09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you do have a point
[09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
[09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well goody
[09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if more people think that the Chancellor is not neutral... and agree that the SC is "more neutral" than the Chancellor... giving the SC more overseeing powers isgood
[09:52] Callipygian Christensen: to be honest, I see a lot of the political behaviour here as very manipulative of the system as it stands
[09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (right now, they just announce the results after validating the votes — that's the only role the SC has in the elections)
[09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Calli... everybody says the same
[09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "when two people meet to decide about the fate of a third, that's politics"
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: yeah lol
[09:54] Callipygian Christensen: ok..well, I am in the 'put the SC in the role of administering elections
[09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The best we can hope to achieve is having as many people "meeting" as possible, so at least people feel they're part of the decision process
[09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd be fine with that too, of course
[09:55] Callipygian Christensen: RA can define the rules..all SC does is appply them..it should be enough of a balance
[09:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are some balances, after all... imagine that teh SC, all of a sudden, decides to exclude some citizens/groups(parties from participating in a debate. Since they have to ask teh Chancellor for permission to use a space, the Chancellor could deny it on the grounds that the SC is not giving fair and equal chances to everybody. So there would be still some checks on what the SC could do or not
[09:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right hehe
[09:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then we really, really need to review the "rules about campaigning"
[09:56] Callipygian Christensen nods
[09:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The philosophy behind the "limitations" and "restrictions" was to avoid unnecessary and bothersome spam.
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: personally i dont want a barrage of political info in a group notice
[09:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[09:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was trying to suggest something, but the truth is, i would like to have conflicting and opposing things...
[09:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no spam, but no "restrictions" to campaigning either
[09:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it would mean no access to group notices, but allowing candidates to campaign wherever they want... but that seems to be an impossible goal
[09:58] Callipygian Christensen: well the two are contradictory..some will see any campaign material as spam..some will welcome it
[09:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, how can we avoid that during the campaigning season, candidates sponsor "leisure" events to get them announced, but use them for political messages?
[09:59] Callipygian Christensen: I have no problem with that
[10:00] Callipygian Christensen: as long as the event post doesnt tout anyone ..if they want to glad hand the crowd, thats up to them
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could live with that!
[10:00] Callipygian Christensen: Other candidates can always attend and do likewise
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, that way you could really forbid the group notices to have any political messages,
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: candidates would just have to be creative and sponsor events,
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and events are not bad lol
[10:01] Callipygian Christensen: I would thinka 'you may send ONE group notice, with an attached notecard, announcing your candidadacy and stating your platform' would be reasonable
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, *more* events, even if it's just for political campaigning, are not such a bad thing
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And who sends the notice.... the candidate, or someone who is in charge of the notices? (Chancellor, PIO, SC...?)
[10:02] Callipygian Christensen: and something that pushes candidates to actually GO to event and meet people..not such a bad thing
[10:02] Callipygian Christensen: I thikthat would fall to SC in the administrationrole
[10:03] Callipygian Christensen: I see campaigning as something anyone running is doing on all fronts..I judge peopele by what they say at events, how they behave, what they post on forums...
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, just remember that as a rule of thumb the SC does not have access to the groups.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that's true!!
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (on the other hand, teh SC has access to the *forums*)
[10:04] Callipygian Christensen: Ibut forums are not read by everyone..and you cant make them oligatory
[10:05] Callipygian Christensen: obligatory
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely not!
[10:06] Callipygian Christensen: givingaccess to the group notices for an SC member to handle those notices shouldnt be an issue..
[10:06] Callipygian Christensen: a question..how many people can actually post to the CDS group?
[10:06] Callipygian Christensen: I am not IN it, so have no access to the list
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea...
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't know if I can check... let me see...
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... 18 on the "Executive branch" which apparently includes RA members.... all with posting ability
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: plus owners and chancellors
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so mmmh I'd say, close to 20 people have posting abilities?
[10:11] Callipygian Christensen: ok..but when I want an event posted I need to track down the chancellor?
[10:12] Callipygian Christensen: or do all of the executive role have the freedom to post at will?
[10:12] Callipygian Christensen: as in..yes they can..but will they
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theoretically, they should not!
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theoretically, only the PIO is supposed to post notices.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But... again... this is not crystal-clear
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, let's say... the Executive... not just the PIO)
[10:13] Callipygian Christensen: I mean, you could designate one of those 20 to post the 'I am running' notices if that route is chosen..but that is back to a partisan person controlling information
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could also understand that the SC might require an "emergency" post
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was the reason why Sonja was so criticised... she didn't want to have the responsibility to post "On behalf" of the candidates, so gave them all posting abilities
[10:14] Callipygian Christensen: well when no PIO is appointed, as in this last term that points to a risk if only one person is responsible/permitted
[10:15] Callipygian Christensen: I have no problem personally with what Sonja chose to do in those circumstances
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quite so
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Well we can list that as a recommendation.
[10:16] Callipygian Christensen: the level of burocracy, along with its vageuness , doesnt lend itself to immediate action when its required..no secret there
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh true, true
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm ok with some rules, so long as they are clear to follow and not too ambiguous
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: yes..minimal and clear is usually the most successful lol
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We tended to go for "minimal and vague" 
[10:17] Callipygian Christensen: and no mega prim campaign signs overhanging the platz!
[10:18] Callipygian Christensen: I actually think the board with the candidates pictures and notecards was a good thing last time
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, too!
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even that was criticised because it was an initiative from the SC!
[10:19] Callipygian Christensen: placing those in a *lot* of public spaces makes info easily accessible, but also makes it reactive..I am not getting spammed by it unless I choose to access it
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... at least... we can suggest that this becomes part of the duties of the SC from now on, and so people are supposed to accept those ideas
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Calli
[10:19] Callipygian Christensen: yeah well..people who ar e polarized lose sight of 'good diea' behind' dont trust that person'
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why I actually liked that idea very much
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ and agrees with that
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: no one is immune to that..its at the point that you cant even list objective pints of discussion without someone getting defensive..a sign of the times here really
[10:21] Callipygian Christensen: ok..let me scroll back to the points lol
[10:22] Callipygian Christensen: LRA
[10:22] Callipygian Christensen: this one seems to me to be rather simple
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: in the faction days, the faction with the highest votes put forward thier choice ..
[10:24] Callipygian Christensen: so there was acceptance that having the bulk of voter support was an element of who became LRA
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right... so in effect, when the election results were announced, you immediately knew who was LRA.
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now... I really don't understand why under STV this isn't the same thing.
[10:24] Callipygian Christensen: so what is wrong with making the highest vote getter LRA
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't know!
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I just heard everybody saying that "under STV that doesn't make sense!"
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we faithfully listened to that and believed it without discussion.
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was hoping that in this commission someone would explain to me what's wrong with having the candidate with the more votes be automatically the LRA.
[10:25] Callipygian Christensen: well who siad that originally?
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose and Pat I think...
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat is *very* familiar with STV
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: Pat also has vested interest in how its interpreted
[10:26] Callipygian Christensen: one moment..let me ask my husband
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh good! Thanks
[10:30] Callipygian Christensen: he isnt overly familiar, though they use it for their BoDelections..but he says that in theory..
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok...
[10:31] Callipygian Christensen: he understands why they are saying it doesnt work..
[10:31] Callipygian Christensen: say you get 20 of 100 votes..
[10:31] Callipygian Christensen: and I gt 5...
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok...
[10:32] Callipygian Christensen: but as votes' rollover' in the process...I get a number of votes, but through the ranking..not with me as first choice..
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes...
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but you still get the votes, even if it's not for "first choice"
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: in theory I can surpass you not because I a peoples first choice, but because I am not totally undesired as they go down their list
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I see. Well, it's philosophical, but ok...
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: true..but..once I have enough votes to be elected..I dont get more rollovers right?
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather... I think so, yes
[10:33] Callipygian Christensen: so t be valid it would have to be 'the most votes in the first round
[10:35] Callipygian Christensen: I suspect its that 'not getting more votes once elected' that makes it invalid to them
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: i *see*
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the point is not really "having the most votes" but "having enough votes — either direct ones or coming from rollovers — to get a seat"
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'm persuaded
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: yes.I think thats how thee system works
[10:36] Callipygian Christensen: I may be totally wrong lol
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it means we need a mechanism to at least call for the first meeting, when the *new* LRA is supposed to be elected
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... the way your hubby explained it to you certainly makes sense
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could, in theory, suggest the following scenario...
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC does the "inaugural cerimony" at the first session anyway.
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's just tradition, no laws
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can turn it into a law: the SC will call the first RA meeting for the inaugural cerimony,
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and during that meeting, the RA, since it IS meeting anyway, elects their LRA.
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: I dont have any problem with that..but Ican hear the pitchforks already..
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too!!
[10:38] Callipygian Christensen: that is giving the SC an active role in when a metting is held blah blah
[10:39] Callipygian Christensen: my personal reaction is so waht..someone has to do it..but I dont think that one will fly lol
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... we have the following alternatives:
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) The SC calls it.
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) The Chancellor calls it (the term for the Chancellor is better defined)
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) One member of the newly elected RA is selected by random choice, and calls it
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) The old LRA calls it
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What other choices are possible?
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: slaughtering a gaot and trying to discern a date from its entrails
[10:42] Callipygian Christensen: Id go with the randomly selected probably
[10:42] Callipygian Christensen: or the old LRA
[10:43] Callipygian Christensen: hmm..Chancellor is elected afte RA is seated..
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:43] Callipygian Christensen: yeah..Chancellor works too
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the old Chancellor is in charge until then — on that, the law is quite clear,
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it was meant to avoid the trap that the RA doesn't immediately call for a Chancellor election, leaving the CDS Executive-less
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. We *could* use the notion that the "cerimony" is, for all purposes, a public event,
[10:44] Callipygian Christensen: ok..I'd think that is the most sensible solution
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since it's a public event, its organisation is a responsibility of the Executive
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (in practice, that's what happens... since we usually have the ball afterwards... all is organised by the Chancellor/PIO)
[10:45] Callipygian Christensen: build in a timeframe though
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely!!!
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can make the Chancellor be bound by duty to announce the innauguration cerimony to be on the weekend following the election results or something like that — so s/he will have a week to find the most convenient time.
[10:46] Callipygian Christensen: inauguration ceremony and first RA meeting
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:47] Callipygian Christensen: or someone will opine that you can have one without the other
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes hehe
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can even put in the law that one point of the agenda is mandatory: election of the LRA
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Calli... I'm afraid I should be going by now...
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you don't mind if I post the transcript...
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's true that we were only two lol — but... at least we have SOME concrete suggestions, which is better than nothing!
[10:48] Callipygian Christensen: ok..Id liek to talk again on the other points though.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh for sure
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was *hoping* to do at least 8 sessions (I'm very optimistic!), one hour each: a general discussion first, and one session for each point.
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or possibly 9, where the last session would be summarising the recommendations
[10:49] Callipygian Christensen: well if its only you and me at the next one..we can wrap it up lol
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha quite so!!!!
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the commissions have no quorum... lol
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but perhaps the suggestions we came up today will enrage our fellow citizens so much that they'll attend en masse next time
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: haha
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: wouldnt that be typical
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: theyll blast them on the forums..
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm fine! So long as we get some results...
[10:50] Callipygian Christensen: but still wont come to meetings
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn winks
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Rose suggested that I'd announce it earlier...
[10:51] Callipygian Christensen: it might help..hard to know..people are busy
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the truth is that I tried several approaches... two weeks in advance... one week but with an intermediary message... just one day
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes they are!
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, and last week there was an unfortunate mistake... the Google calendar apparently listed the meeting on the wrong day!
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Google Cal *sometimes* gets confused with timezones.
[10:52] Callipygian Christensen: yeah..I was around and didnt see a notice so figured something was up
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh well.
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me just grab a copy...
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and thank you again!
All formal meetings ought to have an agenda; it's just more efficient that way. The overall list of issues to be analysed was set (in a typically minimalistic way) by the RA; actual procedures for meeting and establishing recommendations are not codified in law, so I just use the approach I'm more familiar with — agenda with reading material, open discussion point by point as we progress through the agenda, gathering suggestions, finding a consensus if possible (if not, dissenting opinions will mandatorily be added on the final document), writing a document, presenting it to the RA. Would you like to recommend a better way of doing things?