Election Commission - Second Meeting transcript 1/3

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

I'll add a resumed version later

[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just grab a seat and we can get started
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: hi cleol
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: tc all
[13:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hi
[13:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: im just observing and trying to not speak
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: naaah
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn wants participation!
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we sort of have something to add to the last meeting,
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: where we were addressing one issue, how to deal with the first meeting after the election.
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor and Kas who have been here for hours (hehe) suggested that nobody 'tells' the RA when to meet,
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unlike what we discussed during the first meeting
[13:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just settle on a timeline for the RA to meet,
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and they ought to be adult enough to self-organise.
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point here is to make sure that the RA is not "dependent" on outsiders — Chancellor, SC, former RA members — to get together
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that's a rather good point.
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It makes the RA more independent,
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at the cost of some extra arguing about the best time and who is supposed to chair it
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think?
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that either everybody is imitating Cleo or my connection dropped lol
[13:43] Kaseido Quandry: lol
[13:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: haha
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok! So I guess my connection did NOT drop!
[13:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no
[13:44] Kaseido Quandry: well, I think keeping the "who" open allows for RA candidates to emerge, and shows who has organizational abilities
[13:44] Emoky Zsun: lol, sorry, it's my first time here I need to undersatand...
[13:44] Kaseido Quandry: I could see a requirement that the first meeting be within, say, 7-10 days of certification of election results
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True Making them automatically good candidates for LRA hehe
[13:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: me too emoky
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh... perhaps I should give you a link to the agenda then!
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one second.... sorry about that
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2951 (agenda)
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Briefly:
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Explaining the voting system better
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Campaigning.
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Role of the SC in the election process.
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. Leader of the Representative Assembly (LRA)
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5. Citizen eligibility and dates
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6. Chancellor election
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7: Suggesting a limit of successive mandates.
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First meeting transcript: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2983
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Resume of the first meeting:
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit, trying to keep a balance between limiting spam and allowing free access of candidates to do their campaigning. The RA might pass further legislation regarding campaigning, to be enforced by the SC.
2. Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice, with an attached notecard, announcing their candidacy and stating their platform; no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed. However, if candidates wish to "sponsor" a general event and use it to raise awareness as candidates, that's fine — as an event, it will be announced as usually.
3. Each candidate should be allowed to post their own notice.
4. The SC should collect notecards/pictures from candidates and set up a board (possibly at several locations) where citizens can learn about what the candidates stand for. This is non-intrusive and gives all a fair chance.
5. The first meeting of the RA is the inauguration ceremony, during which the SC administers the oath to the newly-e
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lected RA. It shall be called by the Chancellor, as it's a public event, but it will also have as the first agenda meeting the election of the new LRA. The Chancellor shall establish the best date for a meeting until a week after the election results were announced.
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry for the spam
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: would you prefer a notecard?
[13:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sok this is fine
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: okies.
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the suggestions, on point 5., and for the record, Tor and Kas suggest that instead we set a limit for the RA to meet e.g. 7-10 days, and organise among themselves, insead of having the Chancellor call for the 1st meeting
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7-10 days after the election that is (just to be clear)
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices we lost Emoky — she had an urgent RL call
[13:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ikes
[13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that your comment? hehe
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: could you elaborate on it. Cleo?
[13:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: let me think ..
[13:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ikes too bad we lost emoky
[13:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i hope its nothing serious
[13:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hows that
[13:51] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: tors gone
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, she might be back...
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Tor needed to go really
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he already needed to go well over an hour ago!
[13:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think RA should meet regularly .. weekly honestly no matter what the LRA says
[13:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and i think the LRA has WAAYY too much power
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wellllllllll
[13:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: is that anything even near what you have been discussing?
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm afraid that we didn't discuss that,
[13:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since the issues we're supposed to address on this commission,
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: are related to problems raised during the last elections.
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not necessarily come up with new things unrelated to those issues. But...
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... good ideas shouldn't be wasted...
[13:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: seems a waste to do anything until we know if AA will absorb us and take all our money anwya
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How to get the first meeting going *was* one of the problems.
[13:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why don't you just ask the AA people how they wnat it thats what will happen
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cleo
[13:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: im selling everything off when it does anyway
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Miss Chancelor!
[13:54] Sonja Strom: Hello!
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we lost Cleo... lol
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... I think this commission is jinxed
[13:54] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seriously, I think it's me, Kas
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I scare off people!
[13:55] Kaseido Quandry: omg no!
[13:55] Kaseido Quandry laughs
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two terms ago, I was heading the citizen commission,
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and had the same trouble.
[13:55] Kaseido Quandry: seeriously?!
[13:55] Kaseido Quandry: weeeird
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Impossible to figure out a date,
[13:55] Sonja Strom: I have always been scared of you, Gwyn
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and when I did, nobody appeared
[13:55] Sonja Strom: is this transcripted?
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sonja — yes, I'm sure you are!
[13:55] Sonja Strom: uh oh
[13:55] Sonja Strom: hehee
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn clicks on the "stop" button.
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meeting temporarily adjourned!
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course,
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you wish to address some of the other issues...
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean...
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last meeting only had me and Calli
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have a 50% increase on attendancy today! yay!
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[13:56] Sonja Strom: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!!
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:57] Sonja Strom: "rapid growth in attendance"
[13:57] Kaseido Quandry: No, I think what the first meeting came up with was pretty good
[13:57] Kaseido Quandry: I think this is one of the more fix-able issues we have
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hopefully
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's try to tackle one of the other points then?
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: sure, like what?
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Citizen eligibility and dates (heh)
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we're NOT discussing citizenship
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: lol
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right now, you need to be 28 days old in the CDS to be allowed to vote
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the confusion in this case is when these days are counted and how,
[13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, a few people think that's too little,
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: others feel it's too much!
[13:59] Kaseido Quandry: which makes it a decent number
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we don't know yet if citizenship is going to be redefined
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[13:59] Kaseido Quandry: the issue seems to be dual certification, though - at the 28 day mark and at the start of elections
[13:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes! that as well!!
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should take a look at those dates first... they were impossibly confusing...
[14:00] Kaseido Quandry: if this is just pulling a report, no problem, yes?
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I believe Rose or Jamie once put a list
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope it's at easy as that, Kas
[14:00] Kaseido Quandry: I hope so too, but that should be a question readily answered, yes?
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now it's not so easy!
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah wb Cleo!
[14:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thanks i had something to do sorry
[14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow you look lovely when un-clouded!
[14:01] Sonja Strom: hi Cleo
[14:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i know.
[14:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but thank you
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[14:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: just kidding
[14:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thanks
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: latest release
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very, very nice!
[14:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: tyvm
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooook so...
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we were looking at dates
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so mmh
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: technically, 28 days before election day,
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we get a report of all the valid citizens
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is fed into the backoffice of the voting system
[14:04] Kaseido Quandry nods
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: two weeks later,
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: campaigning officially starts
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then we have a week of voting,
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so technically we have 3 and not 2 weeks of campaigning
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, I know!)
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and then we have the last election day, and a new term. Then it starts to be confusing again!
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: theoretically,
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA is supposed to meet after a week, but that was under the old rule when you knew who was LRA
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the election day
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theoretically too,
[14:05] LX Gallery Mail Box, Portucalis: Hi Gwyneth
[14:05] LX Gallery Mail Box, Portucalis: Sunday, 2pm SLT, CapCat Ragu Exhibition - Portucalis (84, 60,22) +++ Domingo, pelas 22h00 de Lisboa, Exposição de CapCat Ragu - Portucalis (84, 60, 22) +++ Ibrahim Bates & Tary Allen+++
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'd have the innauguration cerimony
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the ball
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and we lost Cleo)
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: I think that all still works
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: it just relies on the new RA to appoint a chair pro tem for a few minues
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more confusion on the dates for electing a Chancellor and presenting the budget
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: *minutes
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: eesh, yeah....
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So here is how it was SUPPOSED to be
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (theories, theories)
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Roll call: 28 days before 1st voting day
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Campaigning: "two weeks" before the 1st voting day; no campaigning during the voting, and no RA meetings during that wek either (heh)
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. On the election day, results are immediately announced.
[14:08] Kaseido Quandry: that "no campaigning" is tricky
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. The week afterwards, the RA meets with the following agenda:
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I know)
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a) Innauguration ceremony, by the Dean of the SC
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: b) State of the Nation address
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: c) Election of the LRA (if needed)
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: d) Election of the Chancellor (yes, the Chancellor is supposed to be campaigning at the same time as the RA! That was the point!)
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and e) Budget discussion and approval (yes, the Chancellor is supposed, as part of their campaigning, to do the homework and know what the budget is supposed to be!)
[14:10] Kaseido Quandry: hmmm
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're nowhere near this lol
[14:10] Kaseido Quandry: nope, and some of it is pretty unlikely
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we have too many conflicting laws who skewed all of this.
[14:10] Kaseido Quandry: yeah
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the idea is.... since the RA is not required to meet more than twice a month,
[14:11] Kaseido Quandry: maybe offset the Chancellor terms by halfway?
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: their last meeting would be before the 1st election day,
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thenext meeting would be during the innauguration cerimony,
[14:11] Kaseido Quandry: that was really problematic the last time
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the RA wouldn't be a "sitting duck"
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That could be an idea, Kas... however,
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we are also discussing, as part of this commission,
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we shouldn't change the CDS into a presidentialist system
[14:12] Kaseido Quandry: ok -
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn hopes she got that properly spelled
[14:12] Kaseido Quandry: I'm in favor of that
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would make a LOT of sense to have the election mid-way then
[14:12] Kaseido Quandry: but I think a new RA electing a chancellor, who's already suppsoed to be delivering a budget is pretty unworkable
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if it works for the US, it should work for us
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, Jamie actually managed to do that once or twice!
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: and, it just raises the visibility of the CDS government in general
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: easy if you're continuing - not so easy if things are highly contested
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was in the old faction days.... factions would discuss what budget they'd support, and nominate one of their members as candidates for Chancellor
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so when you vote,
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you'd already vote on a faction + a budget + a Chancellor
[14:14] Kaseido Quandry nods
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was the original *spirit*
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but... we're definitely NOT doing that at all hehe
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So!... should we propose that the Chancellor gets elected mid-term?
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and elected by all?
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in suggesting that
[14:15] Kaseido Quandry: I think there's a lot to recommend that, yep
[14:15] Kaseido Quandry: gives people some more experience, generates more public exposure...
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we have no more factions, the Chancellor is even more independent of political quibbling
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: People are voting more often, which is also good
[14:15] Kaseido Quandry: yes, agreed!
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd also say it would ease the tension between RA/Chancellor, because you'd know you'd just have to live 3 months with a situation, instead of 6
[14:16] Kaseido Quandry: good point that, too
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Let's put that as suggestion then
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm also fine with the suggestion that the RA has 7-10 days to figure out the first meeting
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then... it would mean that the budget is approved mid-term
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's not terrible I guess. we're taking a lot of time anyway lol
[14:17] Kaseido Quandry: that's a good thing too - gives newly elected RA members some chance to get up to speed
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true!
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in that case, I'd suggest that the Chancellors *do* their homework,
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the day they get elected, they are supposed to present the budget for discussion on the immediately following RA meeting.
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Chancellor candidates have 3 months to prepare
[14:18] Kaseido Quandry: I like that
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's better than having just 3 weeks... lol
[14:18] Kaseido Quandry: omg yes!
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... then what is left is to fix the "campaigning season", and decide, once and for all, if we have 2 or 3 weeks
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if the last week overlaps with the "Voting week"
[14:19] Kaseido Quandry: 2, overlapping with voting week
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if we use the same system for the Chancellor as well
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the same for the Chancellor too I guess?
[14:19] Kaseido Quandry: I think so
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hey, we're being productive! LOL
[14:20] Kaseido Quandry: yeah!
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Calli would say, it's easy if the meetings only have 2 people... lol
[14:20] Kaseido Quandry: depends on the 2
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Sonja is just listening )
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha! true!!!
[14:20] Kaseido Quandry: I think we could sort most things just fine
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, what next?
[14:21] Kaseido Quandry: oo, hmm....
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why, we're being productive...
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we just have 2 things left!
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is "explaining the system better"
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the other is ": Suggesting a limit of successive mandates."
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehehehehe
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor mentioned earlier today how hard it is to explain STV
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sooooo
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what can we do about it?
[14:23] Kaseido Quandry: hmm
[14:24] Kaseido Quandry: what's the downside to "vote for 13, top 13 vote-getters win"?
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don't ask me
[14:24] Kaseido Quandry: and just count raw vote?
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ask Pat!
[14:24] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that the major problem is that votes get lost that way.
[14:24] Kaseido Quandry: mm, I don't think so....
[14:25] Kaseido Quandry: take me, a solid mid-list candidate -
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I don't know, let me read on STV
[14:25] Kaseido Quandry: I got 2 first place votes, if I recall, gods know from who -
[14:25] Kaseido Quandry: but a bunch of 3rd through 5th votes -
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it was deliberately created to avoid all pitfalls of the "simple" system you describe. That much I know!
[14:25] Kaseido Quandry: dunno that it would have been very different if you just aggregated the total
[14:25] Kaseido Quandry: hmmmm
[14:26] Kaseido Quandry: I'm hard presssed to think the pitfalls are worse than a system you need a PhD to understand
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all voting systems are like that except First Past The Post!
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you should have seen us discussing Hondt vs. St. League
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn:

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

[14:27] Kaseido Quandry: true enough - but hey, aggregating works for American Idol, lol!
[14:27] Kaseido Quandry: omg!
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On STV: "The system minimizes "wasted" votes, provides proportional representation, and ensures that votes are explicitly cast for individual candidates rather than party lists. It achieves this by using multi-seat constituencies (voting districts) and by transferring votes that would otherwise be wasted on sure losers or winners to other eligible candidates."
[14:28] Kaseido Quandry: yes, but "proportional representation" assumes you're operating in a system with a number of strong political parties
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "A frequent concern with STV among electorates considering its adoption is its relative complexity compared with plurality voting methods. Before the advent of computers, this complexity could have made ballot-counting more difficult than some other voting methods." heh
[14:28] Kaseido Quandry: lol
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:29] Kaseido Quandry: I think it's far more trouble than it's worth, really
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if it's all calculated.... I'm fine
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we have to do it manually.... gaH!
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's a nightmare
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, as said, you can run the data through the online OpenSTV thingy,
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and get insgtangt validation
[14:30] Kaseido Quandry: I'm not - I think over-complex systems are inherently a bad idea, and that they discourage participation
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *instant even
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing is easier than voting for factions *grins*
[14:31] Kaseido Quandry: sure - not voting at all is easier :p
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well... anyway, I don't think we ought to change election systems all the terms
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it always sounds fishy, e.g. "the proponent didn't get all their friends elected, so she's proposing a new system"
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally would recommend keeping it for another .4-5 years
[14:31] Kaseido Quandry: oh good gods
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:32] Kaseido Quandry laughs
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to get familiar with it somehow!
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless we do one-month-terms
[14:32] Kaseido Quandry: I'd rather take antibiotics and let it clear up
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas )) hehe
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Cleo
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... let's flag that point as "undecided" for now
[14:33] Kaseido Quandry nods
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's tackle the last one then!
[14:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ty ignore me
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Suggesting a limit of successive mandates"
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn hates to ignore you!
[14:33] Kaseido Quandry: term limits?
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is to force rotativity, so that you don't get always the same people in the RA, Executive, and so forth
[14:34] Kaseido Quandry nods
[14:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: seems wise
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, in the past this was discussed quite a lot,
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but the problem was that the number of people willing to be in Government is very reduced.
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 10% of the population, to be precise...
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But... we have grown
[14:35] Kaseido Quandry: yep - and since we're elected at large, I see a lot less problem than if people were dominating districts
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and... forced rotativity might encourage others to paricipate
[14:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i think so too
[14:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: going
[14:35] Kaseido Quandry: I'm pretty indifferent - I don't think it's that much of a problem in practice, but I don't object
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. I'll be the silent voice of the minority here hehe — and ask you to suggest limits
[14:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its a good idea
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 terms?
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 terms?
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 term? heh
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would be dramatic, 1 term...
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is also tied to switching positions inside the Government... a common complain is that people who were in the RA then candidate on the next term as Chancellor, or go to the SC... and return whenever appropriate
[14:37] Kaseido Quandry: which, since it seems to happen on its own, suggests that no rule is really needed
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (although it's impossible to get back to the SC once you leave it — the same doesn't apply on the other branches)
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, some people *dislike* that
[14:37] Kaseido Quandry: really? why?
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: imagine the following example....
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you could be elected for the same branch twice,
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then would have to wait a term
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and only that run for any other branch
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would mean less "power-greedy" politicians
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (mind you, since factions are less relevant, this also means less relevance on rotativity among branches)
[14:39] Sonja Strom looks to the side, hoping not to be noticed
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that I'm just sort of summarising some arguments that have been presented
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sonja
[14:39] Sonja Strom: lol
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm the most guilty of all
[14:39] Sonja Strom:
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *nobody* left the SC to run for the RA before!
[14:39] Kaseido Quandry: why is this a problem?
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: some citizens naturally suspect "power-greedy" politicians who are always jumping from branch to branch and manipulating things
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /sarcasm off
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:40] Kaseido Quandry: then let them get involved themselves
[14:40] Kaseido Quandry shrugs
[14:40] Kaseido Quandry: Rose!!
[14:40] Rose Springvale: hi
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you are
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just in time to address "Suggesting a limit of successive mandates"
[14:41] Rose Springvale: thanks. just got back, thought i'd check in
[14:41] Rose Springvale: successive mandates?
[14:41] Kaseido Quandry: term limits, in American
[14:41] Rose Springvale: agg
[14:41] Rose Springvale: ahh
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right
[14:42] Rose Springvale: is there a concensus so far?
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[14:42] Rose Springvale: smile
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we'll hear what you say, which will be unencumbered by our discussion so far
[14:42] Rose Springvale: hehe
[14:42] Rose Springvale: you expect me to have an opinion!
[14:42] Rose Springvale: well okay
[14:43] Rose Springvale: i think in an ideal world, two terms shoudl be enough, at least successively
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sure you have an opinion
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
[14:43] Rose Springvale: but in CDS, we rarely have sufficient people willing to be tar... er.. candidates
[14:43] Rose Springvale: so making that rule may leave offices unfilled
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that used to be the old argument
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's why we never went for that
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But... these days we have more citizens
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and.... the issue was raised (by Soro, if I'm not mistaken) that if the system tries to weed out the "Power-greedy" politicians,
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more people might be willing to participate
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's the argument pro it
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the con argument is mostly what you have said...
[14:45] Rose Springvale: I agree with soro. I know that the same names keep others away
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Kas also feels that it's a non-issue, since we don't limit participation in any other way
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. if you don't like the current batch of politicians.... announce your candidacy
[14:46] Kaseido Quandry: for me that's an incentive *to* participate, but I may be perverse
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: same here, Kas!!
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or I'd have given up eons ago lol
[14:46] Rose Springvale: i think you are both perverse
[14:46] Kaseido Quandry: I'll accpet that
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we're the wrong people for this meeting!
[14:47] Rose Springvale: well, most people are simply not as interested in politics as you two
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn wants to retire
[14:47] Rose Springvale: i'm concerned that we've created honorariums instead of offices
[14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that was what I heard mostly from Soro, even though he didn't use such a nice Latin word for it
[14:48] Rose Springvale: hehe
[14:48] Rose Springvale: soro is a direct kind of guy
[14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess we *could* suggest an experiment...
[14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (he is indeed!)
[14:48] Kaseido Quandry: I think people who are active and have important voices in the community will do so, offices notwithstnading
[14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha!
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we have the role of the Eminence Grise?
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Shadow Cabinet?
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or — eek! — the Star Chamber?
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[14:49] Kaseido Quandry: loL!
[14:49] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:49] Rose Springvale: is that like the gas chamber?
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no!
[14:50] Rose Springvale: Well, here is my thought
[14:50] Rose Springvale: if we have a smaller RA, there are fewer offices.
[14:50] Rose Springvale: in the old days, they used to get things done with 3 or 4 people
[14:50] Rose Springvale: but then, we didn't do much either
[14:51] Rose Springvale: it will be interesting to see what happens in the future
[14:51] Rose Springvale: ahh, gwyn is away. i assume sonja is too as she's not speaking?
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm back lol
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja is a listener today
[14:52] Rose Springvale: ah
[14:52] Sonja Strom:
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *technically* I think that the Chancellor is not supposed to talk on commissions, right?
[14:52] Rose Springvale: i thought that was just guild
[14:52] Rose Springvale: and not vote
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps!
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right...
[14:52] Rose Springvale: i don't recall a restriction on commission participation
[14:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it could be a vague interpretation, since a commission is for all effects an extension of the RA, and the Chancellor is not supposed to be an RA member either
[14:53] Rose Springvale: smile, so do you recommend we try term limits?
[14:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but.... we should ask the SC
[14:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[14:54] Rose Springvale: well, we could apply the rules until they are so restrictive no one will bother anymre... or we could just do our best to serve the community without worrying about it
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm asking you. I personally don't see THAT many people eager to announce their candidacies.
[14:54] Rose Springvale: i always say in the US, the people who are the best candidates wouldn't subject themselves to what we put our candidates and public servants through
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine an RA + Executive next term when *none* of the existing members would run.
[14:54] Rose Springvale: so maybe we should be focusing on how to make the experience less painful
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:55] Kaseido Quandry: *YES*
[14:55] Kaseido Quandry: that's our most critical issue, I think
[14:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how should we do that? is there anything we can suggest?
[14:55] Kaseido Quandry: *enforce* civility, and make liberal use of the banhammer
[14:55] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:55] Rose Springvale: give them red cards
[14:55] Rose Springvale: two warnings, they are out!
[14:55] Rose Springvale:
[14:56] Kaseido Quandry: yep - create a culture that doesn't tolerate the behavior the CDS sees
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we're too civil compared with the British Parliament
[14:56] Kaseido Quandry: once you show you're serious, the culture tends to change itself
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: .... where they have a lot more fun, throw physical objects at each other, yell at the top of their lungs, and call it the oldest democracy in the world
[14:57] Rose Springvale: oh, that would be the one we rebelled from right?
[14:57] Kaseido Quandry: that's what you all wanted, and got - and I don't think very many people like it.
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my country, people just yell and insult each other.... I miss the throwing objects thing
[14:57] Rose Springvale: in mine, we buy expensive ads and hire models
[14:57] Rose Springvale: lol
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Rose now you know why
[14:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:58] Rose Springvale: the whole idea though is that we can do better
[14:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... there *was* a commission once to develop a code of conduct.
[14:58] Rose Springvale: this is not a world hampered with decades of baggage
[14:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for RA members
[14:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, Kas, it was another one of those that failed to meet )
[14:59] Kaseido Quandry: ha!
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:59] Rose Springvale: and you see where my ethics/conflicts effort has gone
[14:59] Rose Springvale: sighh
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: soooo
[14:59] Kaseido Quandry: "Rule 1: Don't be a dick. Rule 2: See Rule 1."
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we COULD suggest that instead of worrying overmuch with term limits,
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we propose the creation of a Comission on Ethics
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or something like that.
[15:00] Rose Springvale: oh yeah, that will go well. another commission!
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what do you think?
[15:00] Rose Springvale: what i'd like to see is a standing committee
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, this one will finish soon-ish
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[15:00] Rose Springvale: that lasts beyond a term
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a standing committe!
[15:00] Kaseido Quandry: I think everybody over the age of 5 knows how they;re supposed to behave.
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees
[15:00] Rose Springvale: but how do you staff it?
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not sure about that, Kas
[15:00] Rose Springvale: even the SC has been called corrupt
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh
[15:01] Rose Springvale: unless it has automatic members... say, retiring LRA and SC deans, or such
[15:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it's a good point. How to staff it, how to enforce their decisions....
[15:01] Rose Springvale: just needs to be NON personal
[15:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh a Veteran's Council
[15:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[15:01] Kaseido Quandry: omg no
[15:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[15:01] Rose Springvale: lots of organizations do a three up three down board
[15:02] Rose Springvale: but we are just not big enough
[15:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh good idea. and change every term
[15:02] Rose Springvale: each term somoen old goes off and someone new comes on
[15:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's an idea.
[15:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a 3-person team?
[15:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and who decides who goes in and out?
[15:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public vote? ㋡
[15:03] Rose Springvale: well
[15:03] Rose Springvale: if we had publicly elected chancellors adn lra
[15:04] Rose Springvale: we could use those offices
[15:04] Rose Springvale: and dean maybe
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we are suggesting that!
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *good* idea, Rose!
[15:04] Rose Springvale: but they serve one term only? as LRA/Chancellor?
[15:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean in that Ethics Committe?
[15:05] Rose Springvale: i mean
[15:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it sounds doable... the Dean at least would remain for long lol
[15:05] Rose Springvale: the ethics committe would only be functional with the definitions of one on one off, if the officials changed each term
[15:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hm
[15:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in that case, all would change
[15:06] Rose Springvale: and you know, i think that makes a lot of sense. those positions rotating keeps everyone on their toes
[15:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so... to recap then....
[15:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'll suggest a Standing Ethics Committee,
[15:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to review the behaviour of the members of all Gvnmt branches
[15:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: composed of 3 members, LRA, Chancellor (which we are proposing on anotgher point to be elected mid-term and by universal suffrage), and Dean
[15:08] Rose Springvale: mid term? hmm
[15:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[15:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's mostly because of the budget issues
[15:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and to give people more opportunities to vote
[15:08] Rose Springvale: any thought to making it a 12 month position?
[15:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[15:09] Rose Springvale: its very hard to get policy done in six months i think
[15:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha — next we'll propose RA terms for 12 months too
[15:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[15:10] Rose Springvale: well, you have to admit
[15:10] Rose Springvale: we have pretty much lost our attrition problem
[15:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not against it...
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's always a trade-off.
[15:11] Rose Springvale: lets try one step at a time
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I agree
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: having a Chancellor elected by all will be a big change anyway
[15:11] Rose Springvale: i'd be in favor of continued 6 mo RA terms, but try extended Chancellor, especially if elected by the people
[15:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if the Chancellor is elected mid-term, another change
[15:12] Rose Springvale: i'm not as crazy about that piece personally
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what about the following idea... allow RA members to be elected as often as possible, but not allow LRA to be elected on successive terms
[15:12] Rose Springvale: no
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[15:12] Kaseido Quandry: yep, no to that
[15:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: okies hehe
[15:12] Kaseido Quandry: each RA should elect its own leadership
[15:12] Rose Springvale: i don't think that makes sense. is LRA an popular vote or ra vote?
[15:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA vote, the LRA is just an administrative role which has gained a lot of power
[15:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a freak of nature! hehe
[15:13] Rose Springvale: i don't think there is any power to lra. Its a babysitting job
[15:13] Rose Springvale: not like anyone has to ask the lra to do anything
[15:13] Rose Springvale: or that anyone pays attention lol
[15:14] Rose Springvale: but then, i think that power in cds isnt' vested in offices. its vested in sweat equity
[15:14] Kaseido Quandry: I absolutely agree
[15:14] Rose Springvale: people respect gwyn because she's been here working forever
[15:15] Rose Springvale: lazy sometimes .. hehe
[15:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mostly lazy
[15:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... so where do we stand on the issue of limiting terms?
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I'm fine in recommending a Chancellor elected for 12 months, btw)
[15:16] Rose Springvale: maybe we should adopt a recommendation
[15:16] Rose Springvale: not restricting it
[15:16] Rose Springvale: but
[15:16] Kaseido Quandry: I don't think we need to, but I'm not opposed in principle
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. we can just say that....
[15:16] Rose Springvale: suggesting that all candidates consider taking time off after two consecutive terms
[15:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[15:16] Rose Springvale: to make room for others to have the experience
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[15:17] Kaseido Quandry: that works nicely
[15:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm fine with that!
[15:17] Rose Springvale raises brow at gwyn
[15:17] Rose Springvale: but can you do it?
[15:17] Rose Springvale: would pip stand down if he didn't have to? or pat?
[15:18] Rose Springvale: if not, then maybe we should suggest at two terms, and insist at three
[15:18] Kaseido Quandry: ok
[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

[15:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we can review this in 2 years if we suddenly find out we have not enough candidates for all roles
[15:18] Rose Springvale: yep
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what about the Chancellor? should we propose the same limitations as well?
[15:19] Rose Springvale: one year should be enough don't you think?
[15:19] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quite! lol
[15:19] Rose Springvale: we are only talking consecutive terms .. not 'forever"
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right, that's also important to underline!
[15:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh
[15:19] Rose Springvale: we WILL eventually run out of people if we make it forever
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes )))
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and with that, I think we pretty much covered everything!
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[15:20] Rose Springvale: oh
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks guys
[15:20] Rose Springvale: lol
[15:20] Kaseido Quandry: 6.5 hours striaght of meetings, woo hoo
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Rose, you're welcome to address any other of the points
[15:20] Rose Springvale: did you decide to make the SC the stop gap for lapses?
[15:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no...
[15:20] Sonja Strom: hoo
[15:20] Rose Springvale: purposely?
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have 2 suggestions.... Chancellor calls the first meeting OR the RA has a limit to agree among themselves on the first meeting.
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The latter suggestion has more support
[15:21] Rose Springvale: why not just make it automatic on the first day or the term? or first saturday, ore whatevrer?
[15:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... reasoning that nobody ought to interfere in how the RA organises the meetings
[15:21] Rose Springvale: why have someone have discrestion?
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because people might not be able to make it
[15:22] Rose Springvale: well, if they know before the sign up to be candidates...
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would be my theory too
[15:22] Rose Springvale: there are ALWAYS going to be confilcts for someone
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course
[15:22] Rose Springvale: so lets codify the conflict
[15:22] Rose Springvale: so it isn't favoritism
[15:22] Kaseido Quandry: hm, that makes sense
[15:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but at least one ought to be able to set a meeting which is quorate
[15:23] Rose Springvale: new RA, if they know, first meeting is . x... will make a point of being there
[15:23] Rose Springvale: look what we did this term. we had the full ra there for the only time
[15:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. That ties into Kas suggestion: set a date
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. "7 days after the election is the first RA meeting, unless the RA is able to agree on a different one, not later than 10 days after the election day"
[15:24] Rose Springvale: i just don't like one branch having any responsibility for the organization of the other branches
[15:24] Rose Springvale: well
[15:24] Rose Springvale: i'd say first saturday or sunday after election so you don't get caught in the busines day argument
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you side with Kas and Tor on that. Ok, I guess we'll scratch the recommendation from last time
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Rose
[15:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing like clarifying things
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me see mmmh
[15:25] Kaseido Quandry: I'm good with that
[15:25] Rose Springvale is always in favor of clear legislation
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: election day is always on a sunday at noon, or is it saturday*
[15:25] Rose Springvale: saturday
[15:25] Rose Springvale: noon
[15:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[15:25] Rose Springvale: the following sunday makes sense
[15:26] Rose Springvale: and who knows, maybe then we'd get an innaugural ball : the next week
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the same weekend?
[15:26] Rose Springvale: yes
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would be awesome!
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn is all for that!
[15:26] Rose Springvale: see, it makes it easy for everyone
[15:26] Rose Springvale: means no one has to wait around to hire djs or such
[15:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.... hehe
[15:27] Kaseido Quandry: oh, that's *nice*
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quite
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I agree that candidates will know the exact date well in advance
[15:27] Rose Springvale: yep
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and so they have 24 hours to reschedule... so they have to be quick heh
[15:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we'll give them no chance to reschedule beyond a week anyway
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can even say, "the following sunday at noon unless the RA can agree on a different date/time, within a 7-day limit" or something
[15:28] Rose Springvale: and i suspect all will be glad to have the structure
[15:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: most will, yes
[15:28] Rose Springvale: yes, i think that works gwyn
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose we could even have the innauguration ball on that day too!
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[15:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[15:29] Rose Springvale: that competes a bit with the election announcement party
[15:29] Rose Springvale: but we could
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ahhhh you're right
[15:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'd have two events too close
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: i agree, let's space them out
[15:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[15:31] Kaseido Quandry: hey all, I need to head out and tend to some RL stuff -
[15:31] Kaseido Quandry: this was good! we got stuff done!
[15:31] Sonja Strom: RL?
[15:31] Rose Springvale: i can't imagine, 6.5 hours of meeting and you have rl?!?
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks so much for coming
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
[15:31] Kaseido Quandry: lol, weird, huh?
[15:31] Kaseido Quandry: ;D
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that Kas is actually glued to her chair
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL chair at least
[15:31] Kaseido Quandry: it was getting to that!
[15:31] Sonja Strom: I have heard some people talk about RL,
[15:31] Kaseido Quandry: it's good to be back - see you all soon
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn hears the un-sticking noises
[15:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sonja
[15:31] Sonja Strom: as if it really exists, lol
[15:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[15:32] Rose Springvale: thanks kas
[15:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: meeting adjourned for now — and thanks all for coming
[15:32] Rose Springvale: sorry to be a latecomer and make it longer!
[15:32] Sonja Strom: bye Kas
[15:32] Kaseido Quandry: bye!
[15:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooooo thanks for coming
[15:32] Sonja Strom: thank you