Election Commission — Third Meeting Transcript 1/4

Gwyneth Llewelyn · Post by **Gwyneth Llewelyn** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:04 pm

I'll try to get the draft document revised and posted separately asap. But here goes the transcript. I think that all participants on this meeting are to be thoroughly thanked for. Their insights were valuable, and you can see that we didn't always manage to get a consensus, but at least we will present a few alternatives for the RA to vote on what they feel to be best.

[2010/07/31 09:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, homework for today...
[2010/07/31 09:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that is pretty much a draft recommendation
[2010/07/31 09:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: based on the previous 2 meetings
[2010/07/31 09:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: some things are *completely new* — see the 'rules' for the Ethics Committee
[2010/07/31 09:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose suggested that,
[2010/07/31 09:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just invented a few rules lol
[2010/07/31 09:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: definitely to be discussed —
[2010/07/31 09:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or totally dropped from the recommendations!
[2010/07/31 09:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you decide
[2010/07/31 09:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 acts proposed, eventually a 5th for the Ethics Committee
[2010/07/31 09:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: although one act is just one line
[2010/07/31 09:33] Ranma Tardis: seemes overly complex
[2010/07/31 09:33] Kaseido Quandry: I'm liking it so far
[2010/07/31 09:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe what exactly is overly complex, Ranma?
[2010/07/31 09:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, I'm also relying on you — since you were here on the last meeting — to validate that I didn't misinterpret anything you guys said
[2010/07/31 09:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Sol, feel free to question *everything*
[2010/07/31 09:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh heh
[2010/07/31 09:34] Kaseido Quandry: Yes, it's looking very good - just up to the Chancellor election
[2010/07/31 09:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2010/07/31 09:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can do this item by item btw
[2010/07/31 09:35] Second Life: You have been added to the group.
[2010/07/31 09:35] Ranma Tardis: well the more complex something is the easier it is to fail
[2010/07/31 09:35] Kaseido Quandry: other than retaining STV, this seems very straightforward
[2010/07/31 09:35] Solomon Mosely: ok, still wading through, but had a couple things with the LRA part
[2010/07/31 09:35] Ranma Tardis: term limits is a bad ideal, you have trouble getting enough canidates as it is now
[2010/07/31 09:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok...
[2010/07/31 09:36] Kaseido Quandry: Ranma, I'm surprised - I thought you'd really favor that
[2010/07/31 09:36] Kaseido Quandry: and don't forget, the RA's about to get a lot smaller
[2010/07/31 09:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, you're the only one so far that said that in these meetings, Ranma
[2010/07/31 09:36] Ranma Tardis: normally yes but not now
[2010/07/31 09:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain — I think it's worth to do an experiment for a few terms and see what happens.
[2010/07/31 09:37] Ranma Tardis: what happens when there is not enough eligable people left?
[2010/07/31 09:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My feeling is that for the next 2-3 terms we'll have plenty of choices.
[2010/07/31 09:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait
[2010/07/31 09:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This doesn't prevent them to run ever again!
[2010/07/31 09:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They can just wait a term, and then become candidates again.
[2010/07/31 09:37] Kaseido Quandry: nope, it just benches people for a term
[2010/07/31 09:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[2010/07/31 09:40] Kaseido Quandry: wb Gwyn
[2010/07/31 09:40] Kaseido Quandry: it'll depend on the census, but probably around 7, yes?
[2010/07/31 09:40] Ranma Tardis: that sounds good
[2010/07/31 09:40] Solomon Mosely: well, i really like chancellor for 12 months
[2010/07/31 09:40] Kaseido Quandry: yeah, I think that's a great idea
[2010/07/31 09:40] Solomon Mosely: are we still using the same ration for RA?
[2010/07/31 09:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hrrmpf evil evil router
[2010/07/31 09:40] Kaseido Quandry: ergh!
[2010/07/31 09:40] Solomon Mosely: ratio*
[2010/07/31 09:40] Ranma Tardis: maybe extend it to the ra as well
[2010/07/31 09:40] Kaseido Quandry: no no
[2010/07/31 09:40] Ranma Tardis: too many elections
[2010/07/31 09:40] Kaseido Quandry: *please* no - it's hard enough already to change anything here!
[2010/07/31 09:41] Ranma Tardis: change for change itself is not good
[2010/07/31 09:41] Solomon Mosely: does the same procedure hold for removing a chancellor in this scenario?
[2010/07/31 09:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn is a bit lost
[2010/07/31 09:41] Solomon Mosely: same as it is now, that is
[2010/07/31 09:41] Ranma Tardis: stability is a good thing
[2010/07/31 09:41] Solomon Mosely: ?
[2010/07/31 09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, my suggestion...
[2010/07/31 09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's do these in order
[2010/07/31 09:42] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[2010/07/31 09:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So at least we'll finish some of the points hehe
[2010/07/31 09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So on the first one we were lazy lol
[2010/07/31 09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No decision made
[2010/07/31 09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a suggestion for researching alternatives to STV
[2010/07/31 09:43] Kaseido Quandry: Calli! hi!
[2010/07/31 09:43] Callipygian Christensen: hi hi
[2010/07/31 09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Calli
[2010/07/31 09:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh I'm glad you made it!!
[2010/07/31 09:44] Callipygian Christensen: ignore my IM when you finally notice it Gwyn lol
[2010/07/31 09:44] Solomon Mosely: hi call
[2010/07/31 09:44] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Kas, Solomon, Ranma
[2010/07/31 09:44] Ranma Tardis: hi Call
[2010/07/31 09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww I crashed and lost IMs
[2010/07/31 09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my apologies
[2010/07/31 09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Calli... next to my left is a cube with a notecard
[2010/07/31 09:45] Kaseido Quandry: well, I'd like a little stronger language - like, the committee *will* research alternative voting methods this term and report to the RA
[2010/07/31 09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pretty much the same text as http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3014
[2010/07/31 09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we're on point one
[2010/07/31 09:45] Callipygian Christensen: no problem - it was a philisophical pondering of whether 'now' in the notice was now 'now' or some now from hours ago lol
[2010/07/31 09:45] Kaseido Quandry: hee!
[2010/07/31 09:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kas — but that would mean extending this committee's mandate for longer.
[2010/07/31 09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or.... we could suggest a new committee
[2010/07/31 09:46] Kaseido Quandry: hey, it happened to Comms- why should you be spared? lol
[2010/07/31 09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh!
[2010/07/31 09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in that case, I don't have any objections
[2010/07/31 09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right
[2010/07/31 09:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the 2nd paragraph would be.... mmmh
[2010/07/31 09:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delete the whole paragraph? And put: "the committee *will* research alternative voting methods this term and report to the RA" ?
[2010/07/31 09:47] Callipygian Christensen: I had a thought about point 1 if I am not too late
[2010/07/31 09:47] Kaseido Quandry: I think that works
[2010/07/31 09:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're not, Calli
[2010/07/31 09:47] Ranma Tardis: one good thing about SL is the elimination of big money from elections
[2010/07/31 09:47] Ranma Tardis: also we dont have to hear the political ads all of the time
[2010/07/31 09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Ranma
[2010/07/31 09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's hear your suggestion, Calli
[2010/07/31 09:48] Callipygian Christensen: I am not sure the majority of people care about the *detais* of how the system works, but about how they need to fill out their ballot to get the desiered outcome
[2010/07/31 09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok...
[2010/07/31 09:48] Ranma Tardis: money corupts
[2010/07/31 09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that would mean mmmh — setting up a "voter's guide"?
[2010/07/31 09:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the portal and/or the forums?
[2010/07/31 09:48] Ranma Tardis: yes and make it easy
[2010/07/31 09:49] Callipygian Christensen: For example: if I rank all 5 candidates on a 5 person ballot, or if I oly reank 3..what difference does that make in the outcome
[2010/07/31 09:49] Kaseido Quandry: that's *good*
[2010/07/31 09:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... the issue is... who would be in charge of writing that?
[2010/07/31 09:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn manifests her utter ignorance
[2010/07/31 09:49] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, lol
[2010/07/31 09:49] Ranma Tardis: as long as it is not a non partison voters guild by the Christian Coalition
[2010/07/31 09:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat hehe
[2010/07/31 09:49] Callipygian Christensen: is not ranking the equivalent of 'voting against' ..that sort of thing
[2010/07/31 09:49] Ranma Tardis: giggles
[2010/07/31 09:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... we could rephrase this as....
[2010/07/31 09:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "It was found out that STV is not really well-understood by most, and although an open-source tool exists for validating the results (OpenSTV, used by the Dean to validate the last elections), explaining how the system works is beyond the abilities of most."
[2010/07/31 09:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (cutting the bit about "mostly undecided")
[2010/07/31 09:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "This commission suggests that volunteers, knowledgeable about the STV, write a short voters' guide explaining how the ranking influences the result, to be published on the CDS Portal and the Official CDS Forums"
[2010/07/31 09:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then...
[2010/07/31 09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Due to the inherent complexity of STV, he committee *will* research alternative voting methods this term and report to the RA"
[2010/07/31 09:51] Ranma Tardis: simple is best, how about making it like it there are seven positions you can make seven choices
[2010/07/31 09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *the committe
[2010/07/31 09:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that's how it works now, Ranma... you get as many choices as seats
[2010/07/31 09:51] Ranma Tardis: missed the last election
[2010/07/31 09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aw
[2010/07/31 09:52] Kaseido Quandry: OK, I like that language
[2010/07/31 09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we have the by-elections soon... 2 seats... so, 2 candidates to rank
[2010/07/31 09:52] Ranma Tardis: is there 2 canidates?
[2010/07/31 09:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... any comments? If not, I'll take that language as final
[2010/07/31 09:52] Callipygian Christensen: I think any valid system has its complexities - I am a bit concerned that it ot end up being 'a new voting system every year' sitation
[2010/07/31 09:53] Kaseido Quandry: I'd rather change it and get to something sensible
[2010/07/31 09:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Calli — I suggested that we wouldn't change it too much before we got a chance to try it out
[2010/07/31 09:53] Kaseido Quandry: though I'd be good with a recommendation to implement it the election *after* next
[2010/07/31 09:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh.... STV *is* sensible.
[2010/07/31 09:53] Kaseido Quandry: only under certain circumstances - and if you have a PhD
[2010/07/31 09:53] Ranma Tardis: yea
[2010/07/31 09:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In effect, what every citizen does is to create their ideal composition of the RA. EVerybody does the same. And in the end... we sum votes up
[2010/07/31 09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[2010/07/31 09:54] Solomon Mosely: ok, sooo... we dont really need to change amnything about it, but just mmake a FAQ sheet?
[2010/07/31 09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/07/31 09:54] Solomon Mosely: great
[2010/07/31 09:54] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[2010/07/31 09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's just because we're split in this, Sol
[2010/07/31 09:54] Solomon Mosely: gotcha
[2010/07/31 09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly second Calli — no changes for a while
[2010/07/31 09:54] Callipygian Christensen: I am ok with that actually Kas - I dont need to undertand every detail as long as it is a validated system - I am on of those who just ants to know the intricacy of filling out my own ballot lol
[2010/07/31 09:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Kas also said last time that she would prefer a change so... no consensus hehe
[2010/07/31 09:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
[2010/07/31 09:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we go to 2/3 ? I bundled them together!
[2010/07/31 09:55] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[2010/07/31 09:55] Solomon Mosely: yup, and 2 looks the same as we've talked about
[2010/07/31 09:55] Solomon Mosely: 3 looks sensible
[2010/07/31 09:55] Kaseido Quandry: I'm good with it
[2010/07/31 09:56] Callipygian Christensen: Just a comment on wording here
[2010/07/31 09:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2010/07/31 09:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's hear it, Calli
[2010/07/31 09:56] Ranma Tardis: yes I agree
[2010/07/31 09:57] Callipygian Christensen: it became clear at the last SC meeting, with the return of a section of the ibill to the RA for revision, that the SC feels very strongly that RA shouldn not tell them what to do
[2010/07/31 09:57] Ranma Tardis: very sensible
[2010/07/31 09:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.... I was taking a look at a notecard I got from the SC....
[2010/07/31 09:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me see if I can get it
[2010/07/31 09:57] Callipygian Christensen: So wording about 'the SC should collect a notecard' is probably going to get the same reaction
[2010/07/31 09:58] Solomon Mosely: well, teh SC also needs to accept they work for the people via RA, right?
[2010/07/31 09:58] Solomon Mosely: who then, does tell them what to do?
[2010/07/31 09:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.... we can strike 5. from the act
[2010/07/31 09:59] Callipygian Christensen: Solomon, I think it's not a 'we dont work for the people' thing, more a reminder that RA and SC are a check and balance on each other, therefore neither should be telling the other what to do
[2010/07/31 09:59] Kaseido Quandry: then do we need an elections commission under the executive?
[2010/07/31 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (also, I put some things between [brackets] to open for discussion, if we require more clarification)
[2010/07/31 10:00] Ranma Tardis: what limits should there be in the notices, remember the group named the 14 words?
[2010/07/31 10:00] Kaseido Quandry: *somebody*'s got to follow clear procedures....
[2010/07/31 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just put ONE group notice
[2010/07/31 10:00] Ranma Tardis: The SC monitors them for acceptable content?
[2010/07/31 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... this act only refers to the SC as *supervising*, and, except for point 5, doesn't "demand" anything from the SC.
[2010/07/31 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would expect so, yes, Ranma
[2010/07/31 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we could just strike 5
[2010/07/31 10:01] Callipygian Christensen: (and to answer SOlomon - the Constitution tells the SC waht to do)
[2010/07/31 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Calli — we're just avoiding adding more things to the Constitution)
[2010/07/31 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We COULD suggest that things like the boad or the "meet the canddiates" event is done by the Exdecutive...
[2010/07/31 10:02] Ranma Tardis: yes it is complex enough
[2010/07/31 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek — my spelling gets worse with lag lol
[2010/07/31 10:02] Callipygian Christensen nods..just answering
[2010/07/31 10:02] Solomon Mosely: i see, so we can ask if they would be willing to set up a board and collect NCs?
[2010/07/31 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... I guess their answer is "no"
[2010/07/31 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can *demand* it from the Executive...
[2010/07/31 10:03] Solomon Mosely: does it matter who does it? could it be current PIO?
[2010/07/31 10:03] Kaseido Quandry: hmmmmmm
[2010/07/31 10:03] Solomon Mosely: isnt that bit just pr?
[2010/07/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd be fine with that, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:04] Callipygian Christensen: as a commission I think it saying 'the method of collecting notecards and making them available seemed to work, and we request that it continue'
[2010/07/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, because I like the idea
[2010/07/31 10:04] Solomon Mosely: thats a good reason
[2010/07/31 10:04] Ranma Tardis: how about setting up a place where they can post them?
[2010/07/31 10:04] Solomon Mosely: again, PIO
[2010/07/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but "someone" has to set that place up...
[2010/07/31 10:04] Callipygian Christensen: and just a pint of reference, it was Delia who caemup with the idea of doing that in the chaos last time, so I dont think the SC is averse to that sort of activity
[2010/07/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2010/07/31 10:05] Solomon Mosely: sure, i think she was just trying to get it done on the fly
[2010/07/31 10:05] Ranma Tardis: oh the town square or such
[2010/07/31 10:05] Solomon Mosely: it was a mess then
[2010/07/31 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well guys. We have two choices. 1) Suggest that the SC does this, and feel the Wrath of the Dean; 2) Suggest tha the Executive does it.
[2010/07/31 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) Drop it altogether
[2010/07/31 10:05] Kaseido Quandry: lol, I'm all for 2)
[2010/07/31 10:05] Ranma Tardis: make a bot where a canidate can place the notecard and interested people can get them
[2010/07/31 10:05] Kaseido Quandry: it's too good an idea to lose to turf wars
[2010/07/31 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 seems to be more peaceful.... hehe
[2010/07/31 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Kas
[2010/07/31 10:06] Ranma Tardis: place
[2010/07/31 10:06] Ranma Tardis: not bot giggles
[2010/07/31 10:06] Solomon Mosely: wait, are we still talking about item 5?
[2010/07/31 10:06] Solomon Mosely: in the campaign act?
[2010/07/31 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2010/07/31 10:06] Callipygian Christensen: the only problem with 2 is that the Executive has to be seen to be neutral or objective in doing so- or there will be cries of bias
[2010/07/31 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why the SC supervises
[2010/07/31 10:07] Solomon Mosely: well, the exec runs PIO, so i guess it's exec, but really on the pio to do list
[2010/07/31 10:07] Ranma Tardis: have no objections to item #5 would the SC want to do it?
[2010/07/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no, Ranma)
[2010/07/31 10:07] Kaseido Quandry: well, if we offset the RA and Chancellor elections, that's some help in removing bias
[2010/07/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sol, I always prefer to name branches on the legislation
[2010/07/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ohhh wait
[2010/07/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, how will this work with the Chancellor election? (to be presented further down)
[2010/07/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: HMM
[2010/07/31 10:08] Kaseido Quandry: oh, hmm, yes.....\
[2010/07/31 10:08] Ranma Tardis: hmmm yes
[2010/07/31 10:08] Kaseido Quandry: that *is* a problem -
[2010/07/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh
[2010/07/31 10:08] Solomon Mosely: ok, well its public information, right?
[2010/07/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Houston, we have a problem!
[2010/07/31 10:08] Solomon Mosely: why?
[2010/07/31 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the PIO shouldn't be running events and details for an election for its own Executive...
[2010/07/31 10:09] Kaseido Quandry: well, the Chancellor is in charge of campaign literature for the Chancellor election....
[2010/07/31 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[2010/07/31 10:09] Solomon Mosely: isn't this just about putting up signs?
[2010/07/31 10:09] Kaseido Quandry: well, yes
[2010/07/31 10:09] Solomon Mosely: right
[2010/07/31 10:09] Kaseido Quandry: I guess the worst they could do would be post OMG UGLY PHOTOS....
[2010/07/31 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... and possibly adding the "Meet the Candidates" event
[2010/07/31 10:09] Solomon Mosely: so it's easy to see who's doing what, they arent changing language in the NCs or the images
[2010/07/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2010/07/31 10:10] Kaseido Quandry: good point, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree too
[2010/07/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right
[2010/07/31 10:10] Callipygian Christensen: did someone mention an Elections officer back there somewhere?
[2010/07/31 10:10] Solomon Mosely: they announce and run the event, the content is up to the candidates
[2010/07/31 10:10] Callipygian Christensen: oh..it as an elections committee
[2010/07/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Calli — not on this commission
[2010/07/31 10:11] Solomon Mosely: isn't that basically the SC, they monitor and enforce the election procedues?
[2010/07/31 10:11] Callipygian Christensen: speaking personally, that is something that works for me
[2010/07/31 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... I'll suggest the writing for 5 then: "The Executive should collect notecards/pictures from candidates and set up a board (possibly at several locations) where citizens can learn about what the candidates stand for and organize events where citizens can fairly meet all candidates"
[2010/07/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Supervision is already implied in point 2
[2010/07/31 10:12] Solomon Mosely: right, so would they also act as an "election committee"?
[2010/07/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does this work for you guys?
[2010/07/31 10:12] Solomon Mosely: yup
[2010/07/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a sense, yes, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:12] Callipygian Christensen nods to the wording - and that would be overseen by the SC - check and blanace - which is what i get the feeling is desired
[2010/07/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.... whew
[2010/07/31 10:12] Ranma Tardis: nods

Gwyneth Llewelyn · Post by **Gwyneth Llewelyn** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:08 pm

[2010/07/31 10:13] Kaseido Quandry: that works
[2010/07/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, any comment about the notes I left in brackets? They're just my personal suggestions; we can leave them off from the recommendations.
[2010/07/31 10:13] Callipygian Christensen: Where am I looking for brackets?
[2010/07/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Campaigning starts officially two weeks before the last election day [My note: the second week of campaigning overlaps with the week where the election booths are open for voting]
[2010/07/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bit about "my note"
[2010/07/31 10:14] Kaseido Quandry: there's a big one in Campaign Act 2
[2010/07/31 10:14] Kaseido Quandry: 3
[2010/07/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and mmmh yes
[2010/07/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on 3 too — because of the wording on "announced as usually"
[2010/07/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to make sure we know what that means
[2010/07/31 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ideally, we should have an act establishing all official channels for communication — because they change over time — to make sure that people know what they ought to pay attention to )
[2010/07/31 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we can refer to that...
[2010/07/31 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "... announced as usually on any official channels for communication"
[2010/07/31 10:16] Solomon Mosely: *as usual
[2010/07/31 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And let the Comms Commission deal with an act listing those
[2010/07/31 10:16] Ranma Tardis: ok
[2010/07/31 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah thanks — yes, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:16] Solomon Mosely: yup, sounds good
[2010/07/31 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: okies
[2010/07/31 10:16] Callipygian Christensen: RL a moment..brb
[2010/07/31 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we can drop the extra info about the week overlapping etc. and so forth? (on item 1)
[2010/07/31 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning: is 1. clear enough for everybody?
[2010/07/31 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that last smiley should have been
[2010/07/31 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I take the silence as a) I've crashed again; or b) nobody thinks we need to clarify further, so item 1. will remain: Campaigning starts officially two weeks before the last election day.
[2010/07/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2010/07/31 10:18] Kaseido Quandry:
[2010/07/31 10:18] Kaseido Quandry: yep, all good
[2010/07/31 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your smiley, Kas, so I think I'm still in-world
[2010/07/31 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: granted, with the steam clouds here I'm not so sure... haha
[2010/07/31 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gooodie, goodie.... let's go on
[2010/07/31 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. Leader of the Representative Assembly (LRA) and 5. Eligibility and dates
[2010/07/31 10:20] Ranma Tardis: sounds good, am ready to scream after all of the political ads in Oklahoma's primary election
[2010/07/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Strike "Bundling together these two items..." hehe — I know, my writing is not always as formal as it should
[2010/07/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ranma — we hope to avoid it here!
[2010/07/31 10:20] Solomon Mosely: ok, for this:
[2010/07/31 10:20] Solomon Mosely: when do LRA candidates annpouicne?
[2010/07/31 10:20] Ranma Tardis: you had to hear the ads, PU
[2010/07/31 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LRA candidates? On the first meeting....
[2010/07/31 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we change that?
[2010/07/31 10:21] Ranma Tardis: no
[2010/07/31 10:21] Kaseido Quandry: no, as they've got a week to 10 day s to unofficially campaign
[2010/07/31 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/07/31 10:22] Solomon Mosely: i was wondering if they should before hand
[2010/07/31 10:22] Solomon Mosely: like annocune they plan to run for it
[2010/07/31 10:23] Kaseido Quandry: of course, but that doesn't need to be codified into law
[2010/07/31 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wouldn't make it mandatory, Sol, because they won't be running on a public election, just an internal RA election...
[2010/07/31 10:23] Kaseido Quandry: and anyone who can't put together a majority in a week doesn't *deserve* to be LRA, lol
[2010/07/31 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also... Rose commented (and so did I) that the LRA used just to be an administrative role lol
[2010/07/31 10:23] Solomon Mosely: right, bu then potential ra and peploe would know what intentions were
[2010/07/31 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: like the RA Archivist or so
[2010/07/31 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it just gained power over the years...
[2010/07/31 10:24] Ranma Tardis: I agree
[2010/07/31 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Kas too
[2010/07/31 10:24] Kaseido Quandry: Sol, there's no way it's *not* going to happen, and I don't think putting it in a law gets you anything
[2010/07/31 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also feel it's unnecessary
[2010/07/31 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we might not have a consensus here hehe — but definitely a strong majority
[2010/07/31 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2010/07/31 10:25] Solomon Mosely: ok, now you say " a week"
[2010/07/31 10:25] Solomon Mosely: isnt that 24 hrs to 10 days?
[2010/07/31 10:25] Kaseido Quandry: from election day to the first RA meeting
[2010/07/31 10:25] Kaseido Quandry: well, yes
[2010/07/31 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's 24 hours!
[2010/07/31 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is: voting results on Saturday, first RA meeting on Sunday
[2010/07/31 10:26] Kaseido Quandry: but it's not going to be 24 hours without strong leadership - in other words, an LRA candidate with a lot of support
[2010/07/31 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[2010/07/31 10:26] Kaseido Quandry: it's kind of a leadership test before the first meeting- who can herd the cats?
[2010/07/31 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[2010/07/31 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that image!
[2010/07/31 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: meow
[2010/07/31 10:27] Callipygian Christensen: back
[2010/07/31 10:27] Kaseido Quandry: hee!
[2010/07/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Calli
[2010/07/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're discussing the New Term Act, Calli
[2010/07/31 10:27] Solomon Mosely: well, its 24 if ther's no schedule conflict
[2010/07/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:27] Solomon Mosely: what does that have to do with leadership?
[2010/07/31 10:28] Kaseido Quandry: the meeting is the following Sunday *unless* the newly elected reps decide to meet sooner
[2010/07/31 10:28] Solomon Mosely: so, people knowing the expectgatoin of the first meeting the day after, can expect to meet then
[2010/07/31 10:28] Kaseido Quandry: which I think means somebody leading that process of setting a meeting
[2010/07/31 10:28] Solomon Mosely: so thats 24 hrs of notice and deliberation on lra
[2010/07/31 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, later, Kas — the first meeting is after 24 hours
[2010/07/31 10:28] Kaseido Quandry: ohhhhh..... I read that as the following week
[2010/07/31 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes.... on the 2nd meeting, we decided that there is no point to wait another week,
[2010/07/31 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if everybody who runs for candidate knows beforehand what the dates are
[2010/07/31 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the unlikely event that a *majority* of newly elected RA members have *no* way to meet on a Sunday, well, then they can change that date.
[2010/07/31 10:30] Kaseido Quandry: hmm, ok, that does cause the problem Sol's describing
[2010/07/31 10:30] Callipygian Christensen: /jme has read back and caught up
[2010/07/31 10:30] Solomon Mosely: sure, but item 1 says that main election on saturday, ra meeting and lra election the following day, sunday, right?
[2010/07/31 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[2010/07/31 10:30] Kaseido Quandry: yeah. that's a problem...
[2010/07/31 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? Because the potential LRAs don't have enough time to backbench and agree on who supports them?
[2010/07/31 10:30] Solomon Mosely: so, why not let everyone know who is plannign on running for lra, let that be a part of the election process
[2010/07/31 10:30] Ranma Tardis: have to run, RA is intruding
[2010/07/31 10:30] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[2010/07/31 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that what you mean?
[2010/07/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2010/07/31 10:31] Kaseido Quandry: bye Ranma
[2010/07/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for coming, Ranma!
[2010/07/31 10:31] Ranma Tardis: cya
[2010/07/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok...
[2010/07/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so... should we change that to the week afterwards?
[2010/07/31 10:31] Solomon Mosely: no,
[2010/07/31 10:31] Kaseido Quandry: well, I'd think it'd depend a lot on the makeup of the RA, on who gets elected
[2010/07/31 10:31] Solomon Mosely: just have more notice on lra candidates
[2010/07/31 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[2010/07/31 10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I'd go for the week afterward - give the elected reps time to meet informally and get to know each other
[2010/07/31 10:32] Solomon Mosely: right, kas, but then at least it would also be a vote of the people who theey want as lra, in a sense
[2010/07/31 10:32] Kaseido Quandry: hmm, that's a fair point
[2010/07/31 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your point, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. It's a fair point.
[2010/07/31 10:32] Solomon Mosely: so leave it all as is
[2010/07/31 10:32] Kaseido Quandry: ok, I can buy that!
[2010/07/31 10:33] Solomon Mosely: just have lra candidates announce that at least a week before elections
[2010/07/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And just add a comment that candidates for LRA should also announce their willingness to be LRA?
[2010/07/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2010/07/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what if everybody announces that? hehe
[2010/07/31 10:33] Solomon Mosely:
[2010/07/31 10:33] Solomon Mosely: ok
[2010/07/31 10:33] Callipygian Christensen: Gwyn, they'd be crazy not to lol
[2010/07/31 10:33] Kaseido Quandry: well, it'll be an interesting first meeting :p
[2010/07/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: under the previous system, everybody would automatically run for LRA — who got the most votes from teh citizens would *be* LRA
[2010/07/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Calli
[2010/07/31 10:33] Kaseido Quandry: well, I don't think everybody would *want* the job -
[2010/07/31 10:34] Kaseido Quandry: gods know I wouldn't touch it for anything
[2010/07/31 10:34] Callipygian Christensen: I dontthink a week will actually make a difference though
[2010/07/31 10:34] Solomon Mosely: right kas
[2010/07/31 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about putting on the OTHER act,
[2010/07/31 10:34] Callipygian Christensen: I expect people will vote for LRA to be someone they know, like, and can work with..most will already know who qualifies and aweek wont change it much
[2010/07/31 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that candidates to LRA should announce their intentions before the campaigning starts?
[2010/07/31 10:35] Kaseido Quandry: no, but it allows for deals....
[2010/07/31 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me check something...
[2010/07/31 10:36] Solomon Mosely: no, at he same time, but give people like a week to think about it and throw hats in for that
[2010/07/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wish to re-read the law that introduces the dates when candidates have to declare their intention to be willing to run.
[2010/07/31 10:36] Solomon Mosely: which happen anyway
[2010/07/31 10:36] Callipygian Christensen: asking people to declare does remove the 'omg..it looks like X is going to be LRA, Ill stand too just to not have it be them' sort of thing
[2010/07/31 10:36] Callipygian Christensen: that may be good or bad depending on your viewpoint lol
[2010/07/31 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes
[2010/07/31 10:37] Solomon Mosely: yea, i think announceing by the end of the first week of the election fortnight is fair
[2010/07/31 10:38] Solomon Mosely: did i spell that right?
[2010/07/31 10:38] Callipygian Christensen gets the whiteout and covers the 'e'...there you go
[2010/07/31 10:39] Solomon Mosely: right
[2010/07/31 10:39] Callipygian Christensen:
[2010/07/31 10:39] Kaseido Quandry:
[2010/07/31 10:39] Solomon Mosely: lol, i was actually talkign abotu "fortnight"
[2010/07/31 10:39] Callipygian Christensen: LOL
[2010/07/31 10:39] Solomon Mosely: but good lookin out
[2010/07/31 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2010/07/31 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sadly, the CDS Portal is missing a lot of laws...
[2010/07/31 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2010/07/31 10:40] Solomon Mosely: ok, well you were just proposing two weeks for elections, right?
[2010/07/31 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No... two weeks campaigning
[2010/07/31 10:40] Solomon Mosely: right
[2010/07/31 10:40] Solomon Mosely: so, then by the end of the first week, lra announcements are made
[2010/07/31 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so after the first week of campaigning — the day the booths open — candidates to the LRA should publicly declare their willingness to run for LRA, if elected.
[2010/07/31 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[2010/07/31 10:40] Callipygian Christensen: thinking ahead..who are LRA candidates declaring themselves to? Is it just a matter of posting to the Forum?
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a point sandwiched between 1. and 2.
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Calli
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOOD point!
[2010/07/31 10:41] Solomon Mosely: ohhh... i missed that part. polls open after the first week?
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So mmh
[2010/07/31 10:41] Solomon Mosely: so its really a week of campaign?
[2010/07/31 10:41] Solomon Mosely: .
[2010/07/31 10:41] Kaseido Quandry: no, two - but one while the polls are open
[2010/07/31 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well.... one week before booths open, one week during open booths.
[2010/07/31 10:42] Solomon Mosely: after people have started voting
[2010/07/31 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[2010/07/31 10:42] Solomon Mosely: for them, the campaign is over
[2010/07/31 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2010/07/31 10:42] Callipygian Christensen: I'd think a forum post would do it..and then the exectuive could send an inworld notice listing who announced?
[2010/07/31 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Calli
[2010/07/31 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Sol is right
[2010/07/31 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: At the beginning of the campaigning, the LRA intentions should be announced
[2010/07/31 10:43] Solomon Mosely: or we just open polls after two weeks
[2010/07/31 10:43] SignpostMarv Martin wonders how many of CDS's processes are documented to assist other communities wishing to engage in in-world democracy
[2010/07/31 10:43] Callipygian Christensen: oh.didnt see you come in Marv..hello
[2010/07/31 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Marv!)
[2010/07/31 10:43] Solomon Mosely: all of them, as tehy're updated
[2010/07/31 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we transcribe *everything* since 2004
[2010/07/31 10:43] Solomon Mosely wonders what marv thoguht of the portal cds has
[2010/07/31 10:44] Solomon Mosely thinks a revision of it is in order if it was so difficult to navigate....
[2010/07/31 10:44] Callipygian Christensen: Candidacy for LRA really isnt an issue for voters, so much as it is for RA candidates, so I think a minimal approach to notification works.
[2010/07/31 10:44] SignpostMarv Martin looks it up
[2010/07/31 10:44] Solomon Mosely smiles
[2010/07/31 10:44] Kaseido Quandry: agreed, Calli - it's inside business
[2010/07/31 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so mmmh... new point 2. Candidates intending also to run for Leader of the Representative Assembly should announce their itentions by publicly posting on the Official CDS Forums, no later than one day before the first day of official campaigning. The Executive shall post a public notice on the official CDS group with a full list of all candidates willing also to run for LRA.
[2010/07/31 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[2010/07/31 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so no need for a group notice?
[2010/07/31 10:45] Kaseido Quandry shrugs
[2010/07/31 10:45] Solomon Mosely: it's also the best way to reach the ra folk
[2010/07/31 10:45] Solomon Mosely: sure, the "usual" channels
[2010/07/31 10:45] Kaseido Quandry: can't hurt, I suppose
[2010/07/31 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... so you're fine then with the New Point 2. as stated?
[2010/07/31 10:46] SignpostMarv Martin: portal html is invald btw
[2010/07/31 10:46] Callipygian Christensen: no, not really..and I know i suggested that lol..but the forum should be enough, since a RA candidate should be reading the forums
[2010/07/31 10:46] Solomon Mosely: "the day before the first day of official cam-aign"?
[2010/07/31 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (heh Marv)
[2010/07/31 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the idea is that on the first day you get the whole list....
[2010/07/31 10:47] Callipygian Christensen: Gwyn, would simplify it if you said 'before the polls open
[2010/07/31 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok
[2010/07/31 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2010/07/31 10:47] Solomon Mosely: thats different than the campaign though
[2010/07/31 10:47] Callipygian Christensen: that sets a sepcific time, since we are very precise about poll times
[2010/07/31 10:47] SignpostMarv Martin: someone visiting the site who aren't all that familiar with the CDS might get confused about the list of themes (perhaps expecting it to reskin the website)
[2010/07/31 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Candidates intending also to run for Leader of the Representative Assembly should announce their itentions by publicly posting on the Official CDS Forums, no later than the day the voting booths are opened.
[2010/07/31 10:47] Callipygian Christensen: oh right..good point Solomon lol
[2010/07/31 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Marv — there is actually a commission just to decide on that, too
[2010/07/31 10:48] Callipygian Christensen: does it make a difference if its declare that day, not a week before?
[2010/07/31 10:48] Solomon Mosely: hi marv, welcome to cds and the election committee meeting
[2010/07/31 10:48] Kaseido Quandry: "no later than"
[2010/07/31 10:48] Callipygian Christensen: still give RA candidates a week to manouvre, and is a simple way to be specific
[2010/07/31 10:48] Kaseido Quandry: I have to say, I can live with this, but I'd much rather do away with the whole public notice thing and allow a week to self-organize before the first RA meeting
[2010/07/31 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: copies & pastes again: "2. Candidates intending also to run for Leader of the Representative Assembly should announce their itentions by publicly posting on the Official CDS Forums, no later than the day the voting booths are opened."
[2010/07/31 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Kas.... me too But since I don't actually *oppose* this idea, I'll be fine with it.
[2010/07/31 10:49] Kaseido Quandry: Could we present both alternatives to the RA?
[2010/07/31 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure!
[2010/07/31 10:49] SignpostMarv Martin: What was the intended purpose of the requirement to do the public notice ?
[2010/07/31 10:50] Solomon Mosely: i can see that, so push the firast meeting to withing the first 7 days after elections?
[2010/07/31 10:50] Kaseido Quandry: I fear this turns the LRA into a public office, right as we're enabling direct elections for chancellor
[2010/07/31 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Marv: letting people know who is actually running for leader of the representative assembly might make citizens willing to change their vote
[2010/07/31 10:50] Kaseido Quandry: yep, Sol
[2010/07/31 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's what I actually wanted to avoid, Kas...
[2010/07/31 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok...
[2010/07/31 10:50] Kaseido Quandry: I'd misread it as the Sunday a week later in the first place
[2010/07/31 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would be far more comfortable with the idea of a week later
[2010/07/31 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2010/07/31 10:50] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, I thought so, and I agree strongly
[2010/07/31 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: last meeting, Kas, we agreed we'd fix the date
[2010/07/31 10:51] Callipygian Christensen: Marv, appointment of leader of the RA was automatic when factions existed - factions have been removed it left a vacuum of 'who organizes the meeting to actually get things started'
[2010/07/31 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooooooooookay
[2010/07/31 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to recap....
[2010/07/31 10:51] Kaseido Quandry: yep, but all this stuff is so interconnected!
[2010/07/31 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Strike the public announcement of LRA candidates!
[2010/07/31 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And 1 becomes....
[2010/07/31 10:51] Callipygian Christensen laughs
[2010/07/31 10:51] Solomon Mosely: no, i would leave it the way you just did it last
[2010/07/31 10:51] Solomon Mosely: to just before polls open
[2010/07/31 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last day the voting booths are open is always a Saturday (until noon). The newly elected Representative Assembly will automatically meet on the immediately following Sunday at noon, unless the newly elected RA members decide, by majority, in the 24 hours following the closing of the voting booths, to meet at a different date, which cannot be set beyond 10 days after the voting booths were closed.
[2010/07/31 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops

Gwyneth Llewelyn · Post by **Gwyneth Llewelyn** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:11 pm

[2010/07/31 10:52] Solomon Mosely: it diminishes the public vote but gives ra time
[2010/07/31 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SORRY
[2010/07/31 10:52] Kaseido Quandry: just change that Sunday to Saturday, yes?
[2010/07/31 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ignore that!
[2010/07/31 10:53] Solomon Mosely: sure, kas, right
[2010/07/31 10:53] SignpostMarv Martin wonders if the timezone is specified next to "noon"
[2010/07/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. The last day the voting booths are open is always a Saturday (until noon). The newly elected Representative Assembly will automatically meet on the Saturday on the next week at noon, unless the newly elected RA members decide, by majority, in the 24 hours following the closing of the voting booths, to meet at a different date, which cannot be set beyond 10 days after the voting booths were closed.
2. The agenda for the first term meeting mandatorily.
[2010/07/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: grr sorry about that, I'm not good at c&P
[2010/07/31 10:53] Kaseido Quandry: all times SLT - there's actually a law to that effect, lol
[2010/07/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes :_) lol
[2010/07/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... the Inauguration Ball would be on the same weekend as the first meeting?
[2010/07/31 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it should.
[2010/07/31 10:54] SignpostMarv Martin: except that LL policy is to not refer to SLT any more
[2010/07/31 10:54] Kaseido Quandry: agreed!
[2010/07/31 10:54] Kaseido Quandry: yeah, we amended the law to that effect
[2010/07/31 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose suggested that we'd have an "election results" party, and a "inauguration ball", spearated by a week
[2010/07/31 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so 3. would read...
[2010/07/31 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah no
[2010/07/31 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that can stay as it is
[2010/07/31 10:55] Kaseido Quandry: yep, that's good
[2010/07/31 10:55] Solomon Mosely: and what ahppend to the lra intentions?
[2010/07/31 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stricken
[2010/07/31 10:55] Solomon Mosely: so then when do they get announced?
[2010/07/31 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They don't
[2010/07/31 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather
[2010/07/31 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: candidates can announce their intentions voluntarily
[2010/07/31 10:56] Solomon Mosely: so new ra shows up a week later and surprises each other and makes a decision?
[2010/07/31 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but not mandatorily
[2010/07/31 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yep
[2010/07/31 10:56] Solomon Mosely: nop
[2010/07/31 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 10:56] Solomon Mosely: heh
[2010/07/31 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's propose the end of the LRA, to be replaced by the RA Archivist...
[2010/07/31 10:57] Solomon Mosely: ok, so, seriously, lra intentions announced by the polls opening
[2010/07/31 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Sol, your idea is that the public should have an idea on who is running for LRA, because that influences their vote...
[2010/07/31 10:57] Kaseido Quandry: I really don't care for that idea
[2010/07/31 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2010/07/31 10:57] Solomon Mosely: well, the potential ra members more so
[2010/07/31 10:57] Kaseido Quandry: hi Rose!
[2010/07/31 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd simply let that to the canddiates' conscience
[2010/07/31 10:57] Rose Springvale: hi all
[2010/07/31 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Rose
[2010/07/31 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well met
[2010/07/31 10:57] Solomon Mosely: y7es, but it was a mess this last time
[2010/07/31 10:57] Solomon Mosely: whgy go through that?
[2010/07/31 10:58] Kaseido Quandry: I don't know, but I don't see runnign for the LRA in the abstract - but rather running for LRA of the specific RA that gets elected
[2010/07/31 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the mess was because nobody had the power to call the meeting really
[2010/07/31 10:58] Solomon Mosely: and why not let peopel know what the intentions are of the people they're electinfg?
[2010/07/31 10:58] SignpostMarv Martin: One assumes that if a candidate doesn't make their intentions known in sufficient time, they don't care too much for getting any votes
[2010/07/31 10:58] Solomon Mosely: does one?
[2010/07/31 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we went for fixed dates instead, and a fixed agenda, nobody needs to discuss what or when to do things
[2010/07/31 10:58] Solomon Mosely: did you want to find land in cds marv?
[2010/07/31 10:59] Callipygian Christensen: hell, have the chancellor chair the first meeting, first point of business elect LRA, hand over the gavel, done
[2010/07/31 10:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/07/31 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually agree with Marv hehe — if candidates are very hush-hush about their intentions, they will not find it easy to get elected
[2010/07/31 10:59] Rose Springvale: i would not support having the chancellor chair
[2010/07/31 10:59] Solomon Mosely: why wouldnt we want thre potential lra candidates to announce themselves?
[2010/07/31 10:59] SignpostMarv Martin: I'm a friend of gwyn's and I had nothing running on this monitor so I thought I'd join her on her rezday
[2010/07/31 10:59] Rose Springvale: Dean of SC if necessary
[2010/07/31 10:59] Kaseido Quandry: omg! happy rezday!
[2010/07/31 10:59] Rose Springvale: its your rezday!
[2010/07/31 10:59] Callipygian Christensen: hey..happy day Gwn
[2010/07/31 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Calli, not even the Chancellor needs to chair — on the first meeting, the SC does apply the oath, and then we immediately vote on LRA, end of story.
[2010/07/31 10:59] Solomon Mosely: happy rezday
[2010/07/31 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Calli!
[2010/07/31 10:59] SignpostMarv Martin: MUHAHAHAA
[2010/07/31 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all hehe
[2010/07/31 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: evil Marv, evil!
[2010/07/31 11:00] Rose Springvale: Hqppy rez day
[2010/07/31 11:00] Callipygian Christensen: ok..same effect Gwyn..works for me lol
[2010/07/31 11:00] Rose Springvale: have you already talked about the chancellor election?
[2010/07/31 11:00] SignpostMarv Martin: case in point. you don't tell people it's your rezday and they don't assume it is
[2010/07/31 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Rose!
[2010/07/31 11:00] Kaseido Quandry: not yet
[2010/07/31 11:00] Rose Springvale: kk
[2010/07/31 11:00] Callipygian Christensen: so, the whole declare thing is goen or not?
[2010/07/31 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: shh Marv — I had completely forgotten it, until I suddenly got a gift coming in from XStreetSL lol
[2010/07/31 11:00] SignpostMarv Martin: so if a candidate doesn't say "hey, you can vote for me", hardly anyone is going to vote for them.
[2010/07/31 11:00] Kaseido Quandry: we may not get to it before I have to leave to start trying on gowns, lol
[2010/07/31 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wouldn't make the declaration *mandatory*, no
[2010/07/31 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2010/07/31 11:01] Rose Springvale: well, i only wanted to say one thing aobut it
[2010/07/31 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's do the following, or we'll be stuck on this forever
[2010/07/31 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's put the announcement of the intention in the Campaigning Act
[2010/07/31 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And with a note,
[2010/07/31 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [no consensus on this item]
[2010/07/31 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it will be up to the RA.
[2010/07/31 11:02] Solomon Mosely: lra candidates announce the day after the elections
[2010/07/31 11:02] Solomon Mosely: why dont you want lra candidates to announce, gwen?
[2010/07/31 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I want them to announce; I don't want to make it *mandatory*.
[2010/07/31 11:02] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/07/31 11:02] Solomon Mosely: why not?
[2010/07/31 11:03] Rose Springvale: i think you are making a bigger deal out of lra than it should be, there is no real power
[2010/07/31 11:03] Solomon Mosely: then there's no debate, and thats not democratic
[2010/07/31 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because it gives the notion that the LRA is far more important than it actually is!
[2010/07/31 11:03] Kaseido Quandry: it's simply not a public issue
[2010/07/31 11:03] Solomon Mosely: other than running ra agendas
[2010/07/31 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Rose said.
[2010/07/31 11:03] Rose Springvale: agrees with gwyn
[2010/07/31 11:03] Kaseido Quandry: this is "who chairs meetings"
[2010/07/31 11:03] Solomon Mosely: right, so lets let marv do it
[2010/07/31 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And should only be that, not a political office
[2010/07/31 11:03] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[2010/07/31 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you'd be surprised, Sol — we *did* have an LRA once who was NOT a member of the RA!
[2010/07/31 11:03] Rose Springvale: its mostly watching the clock lol
[2010/07/31 11:03] Solomon Mosely: then lets draw straws
[2010/07/31 11:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/07/31 11:04] Kaseido Quandry: Not everyone is competent or interested
[2010/07/31 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's what we do
[2010/07/31 11:04] Solomon Mosely: and have a time keeper
[2010/07/31 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok
[2010/07/31 11:04] Solomon Mosely: "competent" good point kas
[2010/07/31 11:04] Rose Springvale: and commit to being at the meetings
[2010/07/31 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[2010/07/31 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we could have a bot...
[2010/07/31 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Auto-LRA
[2010/07/31 11:04] Kaseido Quandry: I *like* our 8-person RA meetings, lol
[2010/07/31 11:04] Rose Springvale: jamie had a robo one
[2010/07/31 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sorry. Or we won't finish
[2010/07/31 11:04] Rose Springvale: he developed for sl6b
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose
[2010/07/31 11:05] Solomon Mosely: then why was there so much positioning around this last lra election?
[2010/07/31 11:05] Callipygian Christensen: actually Gwyn, an LRA who isnt a voting member makes perfect sense if you go with traditional rules of order
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, slowly, the LRA has gained power & influence....
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Calli
[2010/07/31 11:05] Solomon Mosely: wellll......
[2010/07/31 11:05] Solomon Mosely: all the more reason to take it more seriously
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or put a stop to it now
[2010/07/31 11:05] Rose Springvale: maybe we can set that aside for further consideration
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, we're split
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so
[2010/07/31 11:05] Solomon Mosely: really? thats going to happen?
[2010/07/31 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll go with Rose's suggestion.
[2010/07/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Leave that to the RA
[2010/07/31 11:06] Solomon Mosely: right, the inmates will do best
[2010/07/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can put an addendum on the Campaigning act,
[2010/07/31 11:07] SignpostMarv Martin wonders how much oversight there is on campaign expenses, given the amount of trouble MPs are getting in over here
[2010/07/31 11:07] Solomon Mosely: just have people sday, "i want to be LRA" a week before the election, why is this an issue?
[2010/07/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Candidates for the Leadership of the Representative Assembly should publicly announce their intentions on the offical CDS forums before the election booths open [no consensus on this recommendation]
[2010/07/31 11:07] Rose Springvale: Sol, its not unlike the chancellor election... has a chilling effect on others
[2010/07/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Marv, the only campaign expenses we have here is to organise the Inauguration Ball
[2010/07/31 11:08] Rose Springvale: we might have had more options for candidates if two hadn't already split the vote
[2010/07/31 11:08] Solomon Mosely: good nuff
[2010/07/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: granted, now the Campaigning act allows explicit sponsoring of events
[2010/07/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2010/07/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's stay that point 2.
[2010/07/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *keep
[2010/07/31 11:08] SignpostMarv Martin: I don't imagine candidates make use of the in-world classified ads
[2010/07/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the note of no consensus
[2010/07/31 11:08] SignpostMarv Martin doesn't remember the last time he actually looked at them
[2010/07/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah Marv — touch the box to my left
[2010/07/31 11:09] Solomon Mosely: well otherwise, at one meeting, suddenly everyone wants an inquisition and the vote gets tabled ofr weeks
[2010/07/31 11:09] Kaseido Quandry: that's what that intermediate week is for now
[2010/07/31 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2010/07/31 11:09] Solomon Mosely: only if people announce intentions before it
[2010/07/31 11:09] SignpostMarv Martin pokes gwyn with the google docs stick
[2010/07/31 11:09] Kaseido Quandry: I *really* dislike the idea of requiring declaration before the RA is elected
[2010/07/31 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Marv: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3014
[2010/07/31 11:10] Solomon Mosely: ok, then the day after elections
[2010/07/31 11:10] Solomon Mosely: sunday
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: that's the day of the meeting lol
[2010/07/31 11:10] Kaseido Quandry: not anymore, Rose
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: or did you change that?
[2010/07/31 11:10] Kaseido Quandry: we
[2010/07/31 11:10] Solomon Mosely: no, the meeting is the next week
[2010/07/31 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no, Rose, we now postponed it one week)
[2010/07/31 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: oh, i still like it right away
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: sorry
[2010/07/31 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too!
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: i hate that week of limbo
[2010/07/31 11:10] Kaseido Quandry: yep, to allow for LRA candidates to campaign/organize
[2010/07/31 11:10] Kaseido Quandry: well, then that makes for a public LRA race
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: again, assumes that LRA is a candidacy thing
[2010/07/31 11:10] Rose Springvale: i dont' like that eiether
[2010/07/31 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blame it all on Sol
[2010/07/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 11:11] Kaseido Quandry: right
[2010/07/31 11:11] Solomon Mosely: but it is
[2010/07/31 11:11] Rose Springvale: well, i'll have to vote it down !
[2010/07/31 11:11] Solomon Mosely: it is anyway
[2010/07/31 11:11] Rose Springvale: i disagree
[2010/07/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too, Rose!!!
[2010/07/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehehehehehehe
[2010/07/31 11:11] Rose Springvale: only this term
[2010/07/31 11:11] Solomon Mosely: how, we just went through an election of it?
[2010/07/31 11:11] Rose Springvale: because "they" didn't like "me"
[2010/07/31 11:11] Solomon Mosely: and i didnt like arria for it
[2010/07/31 11:11] Solomon Mosely: it was an election
[2010/07/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok ok guys.... anyway....
[2010/07/31 11:11] Kaseido Quandry: who chairs the RA meetings shouldn't be a public issue
[2010/07/31 11:11] Rose Springvale: had never had controversy before
[2010/07/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we digress a TINY bit
[2010/07/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's keep Sol's recommendation with no consensus
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this will be discussed and voted by the RA anyway
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok?
[2010/07/31 11:12] Solomon Mosely: well, before that it was a public votte for the party
[2010/07/31 11:12] Solomon Mosely: saouddns good
[2010/07/31 11:12] Rose Springvale: would rather see the top vote getter if this is an issue.
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, with STV, we don't get that
[2010/07/31 11:12] Rose Springvale: we can though
[2010/07/31 11:12] Solomon Mosely: then we're back to a public election of it
[2010/07/31 11:12] Kaseido Quandry: yeah, but with STV... right
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thus the suggestion to get rid of STV hehe)
[2010/07/31 11:12] Rose Springvale: it shows in the stats
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the top vote getter BEFORE votes are transferred?
[2010/07/31 11:12] Kaseido Quandry: does it? I couldn't find it
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's an idea!!!
[2010/07/31 11:12] Rose Springvale: yep
[2010/07/31 11:12] Kaseido Quandry: no.....
[2010/07/31 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[2010/07/31 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose you're SO clever!
[2010/07/31 11:13] Kaseido Quandry: it shows who got the most first place votes, *not* the most votes
[2010/07/31 11:13] Rose Springvale: that might stop some of the gaming of the system though
[2010/07/31 11:13] Rose Springvale: well, Kas, i'm sure they can glean that. Maybe we need to talk to Jon
[2010/07/31 11:14] Kaseido Quandry: this is a parliamentary position, the parliament should decide
[2010/07/31 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: gosh now I'm split lol
[2010/07/31 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on one hand, Kas is right
[2010/07/31 11:14] Kaseido Quandry: if people are publicly campainging for it, we end up with two rival executives
[2010/07/31 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the other, Rose's suggestion is much nicer and pretty much what we had before.
[2010/07/31 11:15] Rose Springvale: so you think we should go back to factions?
[2010/07/31 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2010/07/31 11:15] Solomon Mosely: god no
[2010/07/31 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not saying anything!
[2010/07/31 11:15] Kaseido Quandry: nobody's saying that
[2010/07/31 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not allowed to!
[2010/07/31 11:15] Kaseido Quandry: let the elected RA choose their own chair- that's as simple as it gets
[2010/07/31 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2010/07/31 11:15] Solomon Mosely: yes, and give them time to think abotu it
[2010/07/31 11:15] Rose Springvale: i think campaigning is silly though
[2010/07/31 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too.
[2010/07/31 11:15] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[2010/07/31 11:16] Solomon Mosely: let tthe gamers find their own time for it
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we're giving them a week, Sol
[2010/07/31 11:16] Rose Springvale: i disagree completely with that.just do it
[2010/07/31 11:16] Rose Springvale: hate that week ofwasted time
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2010/07/31 11:16] Solomon Mosely: its not
[2010/07/31 11:16] Solomon Mosely: why is it wasted?
[2010/07/31 11:16] Rose Springvale: remember the RA only has 26 weeks
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/07/31 11:16] Solomon Mosely: so get together and organize?
[2010/07/31 11:16] Kaseido Quandry: the proposal says they can meet sooner -
[2010/07/31 11:16] Solomon Mosely: .
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 24 hours should be enough
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[2010/07/31 11:16] Kaseido Quandry: that's a challenge to an LRA candidate to make it happen
[2010/07/31 11:16] Rose Springvale: and if they want to DO things, just do the organization likewe had it. I agree gwyn
[2010/07/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas is right!
[2010/07/31 11:16] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2010/07/31 11:16] Solomon Mosely: it doesnt stop anyone certainly
[2010/07/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: whatever. I"m not running again anyway, if you all want to lose time and goodwill, go for it
[2010/07/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: i think the risk is more polarization and gaming
[2010/07/31 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: O-kay.... I'm fine in adding that giving the week to do LRA backbenching politics is NOT consensual, and put that on the recommendation too.
[2010/07/31 11:17] Solomon Mosely: but it will turn into a week of tabled debate anyway
[2010/07/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: didn't this year
[2010/07/31 11:18] Kaseido Quandry: (afk a min)
[2010/07/31 11:18] Solomon Mosely: no, it took weeks to do it thoguh
[2010/07/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I suggest the following....
[2010/07/31 11:18] Rose Springvale: no, we had the meeting on june 1
[2010/07/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's keep point 1 as it is
[2010/07/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the alternative point 1, giving a week
[2010/07/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as an option
[2010/07/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with a comment — there was no consensus
[2010/07/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and leave it to the RA
[2010/07/31 11:18] Rose Springvale: the un organized RA
[2010/07/31 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the current RA, Rose
[2010/07/31 11:19] Rose Springvale:

Gwyneth Llewelyn · Post by **Gwyneth Llewelyn** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:13 pm

[2010/07/31 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can discuss this at the RA... and *vote* on the final text.
[2010/07/31 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok?
[2010/07/31 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fair?
[2010/07/31 11:19] Rose Springvale: agreed
[2010/07/31 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[2010/07/31 11:19] Solomon Mosely: right, we could just leave the debates in teh backrooms, thats fine
[2010/07/31 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Chancellor election" - here we go
[2010/07/31 11:20] Rose Springvale: sol?
[2010/07/31 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we ought to listen to Rose first on this?
[2010/07/31 11:20] Solomon Mosely: yes?
[2010/07/31 11:20] Rose Springvale: backrooms?
[2010/07/31 11:20] Rose Springvale: i think the point was to bring it to the floor of the RA
[2010/07/31 11:20] Solomon Mosely: uoh, sorry, i thought we all knew there was no santa
[2010/07/31 11:20] Rose Springvale: not the backroom of the thermae
[2010/07/31 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok guys... let's move ahead... some of you want to go to the ball!
[2010/07/31 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2010/07/31 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, you wanted to say something re: Chancellor elections.
[2010/07/31 11:21] Rose Springvale: My thought on the chancellor election was simply that it should be at the same time as the RA election, for two reasons
[2010/07/31 11:21] Rose Springvale: one
[2010/07/31 11:21] Rose Springvale: We have short terms, and we really don't need to be always focussed on one election or another
[2010/07/31 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. The issue about not having the terms at the same time were two-fold:
[2010/07/31 11:22] Rose Springvale: two, i think each RA should have one person's program to deal with, provided the chancellor is a leader
[2010/07/31 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 - budget!
[2010/07/31 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 - more voting, more citizen participation!
[2010/07/31 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, on 2, I agree it's also "more mess" so... fine
[2010/07/31 11:22] Rose Springvale: 1. would ask that to be part of all chancellor campaigns, ready to propose at the first meeting
[2010/07/31 11:23] Rose Springvale: then we could see if they actually bothered to look at it
[2010/07/31 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the budget, my THEORY was that the Chancellor, DURING the campaigning, would be preparing the budget, but last time we sort of thought that to be impossible.
[2010/07/31 11:23] Kaseido Quandry: (back)
[2010/07/31 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wb!)
[2010/07/31 11:23] Rose Springvale: 2. i bet that we'll see with this by election that mid term elections don't bring out as many votesr
[2010/07/31 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guys, what do you think?
[2010/07/31 11:23] Rose Springvale: thats the reality in rl anyway
[2010/07/31 11:23] Solomon Mosely: i agree with rose, keep them at the same time
[2010/07/31 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm siding with Rose on this — it was my original thought as well. I was just gently persuaded that nobody can do the budget in time for the elections...
[2010/07/31 11:24] Solomon Mosely: but i like the year term
[2010/07/31 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha — Kas — your turn
[2010/07/31 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (me too, Sol!)
[2010/07/31 11:24] Kaseido Quandry: hmmm.... year term, same as *one* RA election? ok
[2010/07/31 11:24] Rose Springvale: our budget just isn't that complicated
[2010/07/31 11:24] Rose Springvale: yes, kas
[2010/07/31 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow. Ok, this is a change from the last meeting!
[2010/07/31 11:24] Callipygian Christensen: you can have the electon at the same time and still have a one year term..just alternate elctions
[2010/07/31 11:24] Rose Springvale: the second ra term woudl know who they have
[2010/07/31 11:25] Kaseido Quandry: I'm good with that
[2010/07/31 11:25] Solomon Mosely: what do you mean rose?
[2010/07/31 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wonderful, guys
[2010/07/31 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, a consensus
[2010/07/31 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
[2010/07/31 11:25] Rose Springvale: i meant ra terms are 6 months, chancellor 12
[2010/07/31 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes yes Rose
[2010/07/31 11:25] Rose Springvale: would go into the second ra term with full program
[2010/07/31 11:25] Solomon Mosely: consensus on the election timing or the term?
[2010/07/31 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the election timing
[2010/07/31 11:25] Solomon Mosely: right, i think that sounds good
[2010/07/31 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we just need to figure out WHEN that happens: in February or July?
[2010/07/31 11:26] Callipygian Christensen: I am hearing elect a chancellor for a year, hold the election at the same time as the RA elections..just skip evey other one
[2010/07/31 11:26] Solomon Mosely: are you sdaying thats bad?
[2010/07/31 11:26] Rose Springvale: my vote is Feb.
[2010/07/31 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd be for February, makes more sense
[2010/07/31 11:26] Kaseido Quandry: yep, especially given current circumstances
[2010/07/31 11:26] Rose Springvale: i like it
[2010/07/31 11:26] Solomon Mosely: ok
[2010/07/31 11:26] Solomon Mosely: yes, more people around
[2010/07/31 11:26] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[2010/07/31 11:26] Rose Springvale: and beginning of the year, good to start that way
[2010/07/31 11:26] Solomon Mosely: thoght the holidays are busy, still more folks in world overall
[2010/07/31 11:27] Rose Springvale: at least we moved it a month later!
[2010/07/31 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note also that under this proposal, the Chancellor cannot be immediately re-elected for another 12-month term; likewise, RA members cannot server for more than 12 months consecutively
[2010/07/31 11:27] Solomon Mosely: though
[2010/07/31 11:27] Rose Springvale: no more declaring on christmas eve
[2010/07/31 11:27] Solomon Mosely: yup
[2010/07/31 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes
[2010/07/31 11:27] Solomon Mosely: is thatt good?
[2010/07/31 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'll fill in the [TBD] bits on the notecard,
[2010/07/31 11:27] Solomon Mosely: no teo term chancellors?
[2010/07/31 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the same dates as for the first RA term in the year
[2010/07/31 11:27] Kaseido Quandry: ahhh, breakfast - life is *much* better now!
[2010/07/31 11:27] Solomon Mosely: two
[2010/07/31 11:27] Kaseido Quandry: not two in a row
[2010/07/31 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no. One year is enough!
[2010/07/31 11:27] Rose Springvale: not with 12 month terms.
[2010/07/31 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[2010/07/31 11:28] Solomon Mosely: ok
[2010/07/31 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's more for the Chancellor's sanity sake lol
[2010/07/31 11:28] Solomon Mosely: didnt jaime have four 6's in a row?
[2010/07/31 11:28] Rose Springvale: no
[2010/07/31 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then they can take a year off and anjoy themselves in the CDS for a while, and if they wish, they can come back
[2010/07/31 11:28] Rose Springvale: and he burned out
[2010/07/31 11:28] Solomon Mosely: after 3?
[2010/07/31 11:28] Rose Springvale: or we haven't actually limited other offices have we?
[2010/07/31 11:28] Rose Springvale: so if chancellor wants to go to RA or SC
[2010/07/31 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just RA and Chancellor
[2010/07/31 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They can, yes
[2010/07/31 11:28] Rose Springvale: they can yes?
[2010/07/31 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[2010/07/31 11:29] Solomon Mosely: cool
[2010/07/31 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2010/07/31 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession.
[2010/07/31 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See also my note
[2010/07/31 11:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/07/31 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the note is not to be published as part of the recommendation btw=
[2010/07/31 11:29] Rose Springvale: on to the standing committee? had one comment on that
[2010/07/31 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes please.
[2010/07/31 11:29] Solomon Mosely: or one term, in the case of chancellor
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Sol
[2010/07/31 11:30] Kaseido Quandry: yes, better to break that out
[2010/07/31 11:30] Rose Springvale: good catch
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Addition noted.
[2010/07/31 11:30] Solomon Mosely: yum
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vell spotted, thanks!
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Well
[2010/07/31 11:30] Solomon Mosely: zank you
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, the Ethics Committee is completely out of my mind, we didn't define anything last meeting
[2010/07/31 11:30] Rose Springvale: when we talked about the standing committee, i thought we were talking about the FORMER positions. not the current ones. So former chancellor and LRA and current dean
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just its composition
[2010/07/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhhh
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, duly noted — and I agree, Rose!
[2010/07/31 11:31] Rose Springvale: would be wierd otherwise
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might have misread that
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ageed.
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *agreed
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SEC will be composed of three members: the Dean of the Scientific Council (who presides), the last elected Chancellor, and the last elected Leader of the Representative Assembly.
[2010/07/31 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something like that?
[2010/07/31 11:31] Rose Springvale: last elected would still mean current
[2010/07/31 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or "previously elected"?
[2010/07/31 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2010/07/31 11:32] Solomon Mosely: now that bothers me i think
[2010/07/31 11:32] Rose Springvale: why sol?
[2010/07/31 11:32] Rose Springvale: BRB
[2010/07/31 11:32] Solomon Mosely: does that put them in the position of singling out ra memnbers or other officials that confront them or their initiatives?
[2010/07/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's an advisory body, remember...
[2010/07/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No "powers".
[2010/07/31 11:33] Solomon Mosely: why the leaders oof the most powerful committees running the ethics council
[2010/07/31 11:33] Solomon Mosely: arent they most likely to be the most serious offenders?
[2010/07/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sol!!!!
[2010/07/31 11:33] Solomon Mosely: right, so then why have it?
[2010/07/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who would you suggest then?
[2010/07/31 11:33] Solomon Mosely: why not just leave eithics to the SC?
[2010/07/31 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about if the SC doesn't behave ethically?
[2010/07/31 11:34] Solomon Mosely: they monitor and enforce the spirit and letter of the constiutution already?
[2010/07/31 11:34] Solomon Mosely: right?
[2010/07/31 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[2010/07/31 11:34] Solomon Mosely: well, then why wouldnt they be fit to oversee our ethics?
[2010/07/31 11:35] Solomon Mosely: if its only reccomendations
[2010/07/31 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the suggestion was made to allow a body that oversees *all* ethics, not only the RA
[2010/07/31 11:35] Rose Springvale: back... sol your point is why we would not have sitting members of elected bodies
[2010/07/31 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, his point is more why the SC doesn't do all the work
[2010/07/31 11:36] Solomon Mosely: well, mnore that, why would we haqve the leaders of those bodies
[2010/07/31 11:36] Rose Springvale: but maybe we should make this an elected committee
[2010/07/31 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm a bit stumped with that argument actually. Sol is right...
[2010/07/31 11:36] Rose Springvale: As much as i love the SC
[2010/07/31 11:36] Rose Springvale: traditionally they have been very hands off on ethical issues
[2010/07/31 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we *do* have the SC for that... the problem is that the only way to "oversee" the SC is through impeachment.
[2010/07/31 11:36] Solomon Mosely: like the chancellor
[2010/07/31 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor can be voted out of office at any time.
[2010/07/31 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No impeachment is necessary
[2010/07/31 11:37] Solomon Mosely: impeachment?
[2010/07/31 11:37] Rose Springvale: how do you do that with 12 month terms Gwyn?
[2010/07/31 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (unless the *SC* wants to impeach the Chancellor...)
[2010/07/31 11:37] Callipygian Christensen: I think the issue is actually a step further back..defining what is ethical for here and what are conflicts ofinterest etc
[2010/07/31 11:37] Rose Springvale: i agree calli
[2010/07/31 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.... Rose, nothing changed on that... the Chancellor can still be voted out of office at any time.
[2010/07/31 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it still has a veto on RA laws too
[2010/07/31 11:37] Callipygian Christensen: creating a council to oversee a huge grey area really does nothing
[2010/07/31 11:37] Rose Springvale: so all that needs to happen is somone to call for a vote?
[2010/07/31 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeppers.
[2010/07/31 11:37] Solomon Mosely: well, i also didnt want to create yet another committee, but otherwise i would suggest a civic council do it
[2010/07/31 11:38] Rose Springvale: i think this needs more thought, don't you gwyn?
[2010/07/31 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would be a "civic council"?
[2010/07/31 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree!
[2010/07/31 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 11:38] Callipygian Christensen: (sorry..I am trying to prep for the ball as well as this so am a bit distracted
[2010/07/31 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[2010/07/31 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right!
[2010/07/31 11:38] Rose Springvale: hehe, i still have a speech to write lol
[2010/07/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's strike all that — and suggest that we recommend the RA to create an Ethics Commission, with the mandate to propose a method to create a Code of Conduct for public officers of the CDS Government.
[2010/07/31 11:39] Rose Springvale: i tried
[2010/07/31 11:39] Rose Springvale: but okay
[2010/07/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know!
[2010/07/31 11:39] Solomon Mosely: oh, let the citizeans choose their own ethics committee, to oversee their government
[2010/07/31 11:39] Rose Springvale: but we are making a lot of progress, so maybe another commission will be better recieved
[2010/07/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... that just requires a post on the forums, Sol
[2010/07/31 11:39] Kaseido Quandry: elected guardians of public morals? eugggghh
[2010/07/31 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm
[2010/07/31 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Kas!
[2010/07/31 11:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/07/31 11:40] Solomon Mosely: the forums with half the population involved?
[2010/07/31 11:40] SignpostMarv Martin: government-mandated moral values quickly go stale
[2010/07/31 11:40] Rose Springvale: well, how about a community forum on ethics
[2010/07/31 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sol, only half the citizens vote anyway — the same that read the forums
[2010/07/31 11:40] Rose Springvale: where we can get together and talk aobu tit
[2010/07/31 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's a start, Rose!
[2010/07/31 11:40] Solomon Mosely: do we know that?
[2010/07/31 11:40] Rose Springvale: so we have a chance to see where the disconnect is
[2010/07/31 11:40] Kaseido Quandry: it *is* a start
[2010/07/31 11:41] Solomon Mosely: sounds good
[2010/07/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean.... this is the ELection Committee... we do NOT need to worry about this issue at all hehe
[2010/07/31 11:41] Rose Springvale: good, i'll put that on the fall agenda
[2010/07/31 11:41] Solomon Mosely: and we're talking about a state mandated ethics council anyway, run by the state leaders.....
[2010/07/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Yes. "We recommend that the SC creates a new forum for discussion on ethics"
[2010/07/31 11:41] Rose Springvale: if we only deal with the things you've got already, we are way ahead on the issues
[2010/07/31 11:42] Rose Springvale: hmm, i was going to do it inworld as an event
[2010/07/31 11:42] Kaseido Quandry: that's what I was thinking too
[2010/07/31 11:42] Rose Springvale: we can do both
[2010/07/31 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
[2010/07/31 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[2010/07/31 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[2010/07/31 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I much rather prefer in-world meetings ))
[2010/07/31 11:42] Rose Springvale: and i think we can get some experts to come facillitate
[2010/07/31 11:42] Kaseido Quandry: I really like that!
[2010/07/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. But... this should then be a recommendation from the RA to the SC to run it.
[2010/07/31 11:43] Solomon Mosely: can we hold it at the gadfly?
[2010/07/31 11:43] Rose Springvale: the in world one too?
[2010/07/31 11:43] Solomon Mosely: it would do it's namesake proud....
[2010/07/31 11:43] Callipygian Christensen: straight in the pool
[2010/07/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Sol said, if we're not really proposing a new "branch" or something... the role of dealing with ethics is part of the SC's attributions
[2010/07/31 11:43] Callipygian Christensen: I have to go gwyn..the ball is in 15 minutes
[2010/07/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[2010/07/31 11:43] Rose Springvale: see you in a bit Calli
[2010/07/31 11:44] Kaseido Quandry: gaak, I've got like 87 gowns to try on....
[2010/07/31 11:44] Callipygian Christensen: hope to see you all there!
[2010/07/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn sadly has a RL dinner and has to leave acccccccck
[2010/07/31 11:44] Rose Springvale: kas, just pick one lol
[2010/07/31 11:44] Rose Springvale: ahh, too bad gwyn! you will miss my yet to be crafted speech!
[2010/07/31 11:44] Kaseido Quandry laughs
[2010/07/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[2010/07/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn kicks herself
[2010/07/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway
[2010/07/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we did a good job IMHO
[2010/07/31 11:45] Kaseido Quandry: we did!
[2010/07/31 11:45] Rose Springvale: thanks for chairing, i think so too
[2010/07/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we won't talk about ethics, lol
[2010/07/31 11:45] Solomon Mosely thinks he should start a female avie too, and get the better wardrobe
[2010/07/31 11:45] Rose Springvale: one thing we didn't do...
[2010/07/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not make any recommendations except perhaps pointing out that this commission would like to see a public forum about ethics to be created
[2010/07/31 11:45] Rose Springvale: was turn over loose ends in elections to the SC officially
[2010/07/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh?
[2010/07/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elections to the SC? Oops
[2010/07/31 11:45] Rose Springvale: so we don't have all the bickering
[2010/07/31 11:46] Rose Springvale: when somethign we've not foreseen comes up
[2010/07/31 11:46] Rose Springvale: or dealt with tie votes
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.... we reinforced that overseeing the elections is part of the SC's duties
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but just.... "overseeing"
[2010/07/31 11:46] Rose Springvale: lots of people thought the SC should have doen RPS for the chancellor vote
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: actual work is not
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2010/07/31 11:46] Kaseido Quandry: "real person slash"?
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooo
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2010/07/31 11:46] Rose Springvale: rock paper scissors
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rock-paper-scissors
[2010/07/31 11:46] Kaseido Quandry: ahhh!
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it IS in the Constitution.... somewhere!
[2010/07/31 11:46] Kaseido Quandry likes her idea better
[2010/07/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or was
[2010/07/31 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: just use the scissors? hehehehe
[2010/07/31 11:47] Rose Springvale: yes,
[2010/07/31 11:47] Kaseido Quandry: haa!
[2010/07/31 11:47] Solomon Mosely: what time is the ball?
[2010/07/31 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13 mins to go!
[2010/07/31 11:47] Rose Springvale: kas,feel free to run for chancellor
[2010/07/31 11:47] Rose Springvale: 12
[2010/07/31 11:47] Kaseido Quandry: ok, I'm off to wardrobe!
[2010/07/31 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[2010/07/31 11:47] Kaseido Quandry: nuuuuu!
[2010/07/31 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all righty guys
[2010/07/31 11:47] Solomon Mosely: shi......

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