Where is tors declaration?

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Beathan
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Re: Where is tors declaration?

Post by Beathan »

Tor,

I now see that I have been unfair to you. I apologize, and will do so in person if I see you in-world. I don't have much quarrel with the substantive positions you took in this matter. My big problem is with the process -- and that now appears to be a failed SC process for which the SC bears primary responsibility (although the fig-leaf amendments passed by the RA are also shameful).

The bigger picture, though, is that an election that should be almost done has not started and that people who were promised a right to participate when they bought their land, and who had that promise confirmed during discussions in a meeting of the RA, are not going to be allowed to vote. That is wrong.

We should have started voting already -- and we should have done so based on the citizen list that had been circulating since the start of the month and the candidates list the SC published on close of the declaration period.

Beathan

Let's keep things simple enough to be fair, substantive enough to be effective, and insightful enough to be good.
cleopatraxigalia
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Re: Where is tors declaration?

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Just a side note, I was too, because I was spending a lot of time selling plots based on you and trebor urging me to do so for the "election sale" ... and I asked Trebor, and he clearly told me this..

Do not worry, we have this all worked out with the SC.

at the time I didnt think it mattered. Now, I wondered what he meant by that. I am not accusing Trebor of anything. And though I truly believe Bells is a better chancellor candidate at the moment, I am not writing this for that purpose. I am just wondering more about what he was actually being led to bleieve and by whom. I would say if it points to wrong doing it may actually be more on who he stated he had it workedo ut with .. rather than himself.

A fact in some of the pointing fingers at people for populating CDS and the timing of that was that not only was it being done clearly in the open and with the assistance of the executive team. No one ever mentioned a concern, if at that time, all the behind the scence finaggaling energy had been spent doign what i was donig, we would have a group of new citizens who everyone felt connected to and not be in the mess we are in. We lowered the tiers in the summer, this was to initiate the sale of land !!!! IF THE SUMMER STARTS IN JULY .. .. August September October... no wonder thats when teh land all went for sale! EVERYONE had the chance and should have taken the bull by the horns and gotten out there and become an AMBASSADOR TO CDS.

Cleo
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Re: Where is tors declaration?

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Is no one concerned that the forums we clearly point to people to read when purchasing our land clearly stated that they could vote if they bought land by November 3??

We took their money .. Maybe we should offer it all back.

Btw.. guilleme was clearly with out a parcel for a matter of many days prior to October 21st, why is on the eligible voter list " du jour". And anyone who did the same thing should be disqualified too like you did to Ceasar a few elections ago when we switched parcels during the time frame.

Cleo
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Re: Where is tors declaration?

Post by Beathan »

Cleo --

Please put your concerns in a notecard for me. I will use it to try to get my By-Election proposal passed. If that doesn't pass, I will put it in a petition to the SC to ask them to require a by-election as a mechanism to fix the irregularities in this election, and to allow all citizens who qualify at the time of the by-election to vote and run.

We might not get anywhere with those proposals, but someone has to use proper process in this mess.

Beathan

Let's keep things simple enough to be fair, substantive enough to be effective, and insightful enough to be good.
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Trebor Warcliffe
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Re: Where is tors declaration?

Post by Trebor Warcliffe »

Cleo, Cleo, Cleo,

Haven’t you learned anything over the past few days that it’s not a good idea to present something as fact when it is not a fact? I’m referring to this part of your post

“and I asked Trebor, and he clearly told me this… Do not worry, we have this all worked out with the SC.”

Where is the information that explains when I supposedly made this statement? The time, place, where were we, etc. etc. I believe the conversation took place at the RA meeting on October 30th in a private conversation between yourself and I. I will ask you here if I have your permission to post the chat transcript between you and I on this date. If I do have your permission to post our chat transcript than I ask that you also post the transcript so anyone who is concerned can read both transcripts and both transcripts should be the same word-for-word. I will help you out with this task. The chat was a private chat between you and I at the RA meeting. The first entry was October 30, 2011 12:16

[2011/10/30 12:16] Trebor Warcliffe: Need to call the FAA LOL

This was in reference to some in attendance noticing an airplane being attached to an audience member. Now along with the timestamps I’ve provided anyone, including you, can read the RA meeting transcript to see what was being said in public that coincided with our private conversation. Now I can’t post your parts of the conversation in this post because I don’t have permission. But I can do exactly what you have done to me and publicly state what you supposedly said to me.

You asked me a simple question about us still having until November 3rd to get new citizens, citizens who would be able to vote and run for office. My responses follow.

[2011/10/30 14:14] Trebor Warcliffe: NO CLUE
[2011/10/30 14:14] Trebor Warcliffe: Im totally confused on this isue now

You agreed with my confusion and then I said:

[2011/10/30 14:14] Trebor Warcliffe: I guess we'll know when the SC lets us know

Your reply *******

[2011/10/30 14:15] Trebor Warcliffe: I think the point that makes hte difference is that they HAVE TO BE A CITIZEN for at least 28 consecuitive days before
[2011/10/30 14:16] Trebor Warcliffe: not that tier is paid but actually a citizen for 28 days
[2011/10/30 14:16] Trebor Warcliffe: and thats where im gettin confused

After this you than give an opinion that you think most of the new people can’t vote which I replied with:

[2011/10/30 14:23] Trebor Warcliffe: we'll see
[2011/10/30 14:23] Trebor Warcliffe: i hope they can

Then you ask me if I knew the dates you thought were wrong and I reply:

[2011/10/30 14:33] Trebor Warcliffe: the only thing I have to go on is what Rose posted in the forums

You ask me what I think that says, my reply:

[2011/10/30 14:35] Trebor Warcliffe: give me a minute ill go read it again
[2011/10/30 14:36] Trebor Warcliffe: November 3: last day to be a citizen eligible to vote in the election (constitutional)
[2011/10/30 14:36] Trebor Warcliffe: That tells me that if you are a citizen on or before this date you can vote

You ask me why certain people are saying the new people cannot vote and why they are saying something different that what Rose posted in the forums. My relpy:

[2011/10/30 14:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Whats confusing me is this "28 days" thing

You than express your upset feelings about the matter.

[2011/10/30 14:37] Trebor Warcliffe: We'll have to do a little research on this one
[2011/10/30 14:37] Trebor Warcliffe: I think Delia and Soro are SC arent they?
[2011/10/30 14:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Who else?

Cleo ************
Cleo ************

[2011/10/30 14:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Ill ask them

Cleo ************

[2011/10/30 14:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Isnt Pat and Claude SC?

Cleo ************

[2011/10/30 14:38] Trebor Warcliffe: I'll ask Delia the next time her and I talk
[2011/10/30 14:38] Trebor Warcliffe: Im still workign with her on getting MoCA open again

Your next post is you stressing the importance of this situation to me which I reply

[2011/10/30 14:39] Trebor Warcliffe: yes trust me i know

Cleo **********
Cleo **********
Cleo **********

[2011/10/30 14:45] Trebor Warcliffe: Cleo just make sure everyone has their tier paid and are not in arrears as of November 3rd.

You remind me of the “28 day issue” and I say

[2011/10/30 14:46] Trebor Warcliffe: Dont worry about that part for now

Cleo **********
Cleo **********

[2011/10/30 14:46] Trebor Warcliffe: We will argue
[2011/10/30 14:47] Trebor Warcliffe: the Constitution
[2011/10/30 14:47] Trebor Warcliffe: that Rose posted in the forums

Cleo *********

[2011/10/30 14:47] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe the 28 days is counting back from the day that the polls are closed

You comment that you thought it was from the day the newly elected individuals took office and then we continued our private conversation that had nothing to do with the discussion above.

So Cleo I ask you just as I have asked Beathan in my posts to him to please provide proof of what you have posted. I’m tired of seeing citizens being raked over the coals from people who state something as a fact, law, regulation, or quote but don’t have the evidence or proof to back it up.

The point of my conversation with you was that I was going to do whatever I could, per the Constitution and per Rose’s posting, to argue the fact that the new citizens should be able to vote and run. That is why I told you to make sure that all new citizens had their tier paid up by November 3rd.

Also if you’re not using this post to discredit me in my campaign for Chancellor than why even mention it?

And yes both Tor and I encouraged you to sell the plots but I believe the name of the sale was the end of term sale, but I could be wrong on that part. And even though I have said this to you in private conversations and publically in the forums, thank you for doing an excellent job in selling and helping with the sale of empty parcels in the CDS this past term.

Trebor Warcliffe

Let us move away from all of the "us" and "them" and turn our attention to "we."
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