REPOSTED RA/SC review, please-resolution re: group-owned lan

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

Please bear with me if I'm being stupid — my lack of knowledge of land ownership and permissions is legendary! — but what happens if currently deeded land is simply un-deeded and set to group? What dramatic consequences will happen?

I dislike the idea of 'breaking land apart', taking at away from citizens, and giving it back (even if to the same citizens again), because it's a bad precedent, as Tor has pointed out. However, I remember that ages ago I turned parcels from deeded to merely set and back again (and vice-versa) and no catastrophe occurred. Have things changed?

Besides streaming — which, as said, can be fixed with a special object — what main differences exist between deeded land and land set to group? I mean in the CDS; I'm aware of the 10% tier bonus on the mainland.

Also, I'm reluctant in accepting 'grandfathered deeded land'. If it's more damaging to the CDS, why should we accept that 'grandfathering'? I remember when we stopped having microplots. Many complained that the mini-plots allowed poor citizens to still remain citizens, and now we removed their option of keeping their citizenship, so this was unfair, etc. and microplots ought to be grandfathered... but at the end of the day, we just created a law that allowed a transition phase, but, eventually, microplots were abolished. There are a lot of rules that never get 'grandfathered', and often for good reason.

Mind you, I'm not opposed to grandfathering deeded land in general — if there is a good reason for it, then sure, let's hear it!

That said, I agree with Rosie (sorry, Cindy!) — handling 'group citizens' was a mess when we allowed that, and it's really hard to track down, as membership comes and goes... also, someone who has partial rights to a group, are they citizens or not? You can see how quickly this becomes unmanageable.

And yes, like Bromo said, it would be fair to keep group-owned land to a limit as well. It looks like a good idea to make the group-owned land the same limit as individually owned land.

On the other hand, I'm always happy to hear people worrying so much about all land getting sold Doesn't that mean that we should be worrying about adding more regions? Heh. My expansionist soul rejoices hearing that!

[Sudane Erato]

Please bear with me if I'm being stupid — my lack of knowledge of land ownership and permissions is legendary! — but what happens if currently deeded land is simply un-deeded and set to group? What dramatic consequences will happen?

The difference is fundamental concept.

Land "Set To Group" has a named owner. The named owner has simply declared, by "Setting To Group", that others in the group have basically two privileges on that parcel: (1) they can rez things there and not have them returned if the parcel is set to autoreturn or if the "Create Objects" is restricted to "Group"... and... (2) they can Set Home there. If you inspect "About Land", a parcel which is "Set To Group" still has an owner with a name.

An owner with a name. For the CDS, a very fundamental concept.

Land "Deeded to Group" has no named owner. Inspecting "About Land", one sees that the owner is the Group. There is no avatar name anywhere to be seen, which is why parcels deeded to group were excluded from citizenship qualifications. A parcel "Deeded To Group" means that everyone in the group who holds the roles which enable the abilities which control the parcel... can do so. There is no "owner". EVERY function of land control is divvied up, possibly to dozens of people. The status of "Deeded To Group" is literally a status for an active group... such as Virtus on Monastery, or the Artisan Guild on NFS. There is literally a group which has a GROUP interest in the parcel, that group controls the parcel, there is no INDIVIDUAL owner responsible for the parcel.

These are the differences. How they may be currently used is a different matter.

Sudane............................

[Bagheera]

Please bear with me if I'm being stupid — my lack of knowledge of land ownership and permissions is legendary! — but what happens if currently deeded land is simply un-deeded and set to group? What dramatic consequences will happen?

The difference is fundamental concept.

Land "Set To Group" has a named owner. The named owner has simply declared, by "Setting To Group", that others in the group have basically two privileges on that parcel: (1) they can rez things there and not have them returned if the parcel is set to autoreturn or if the "Create Objects" is restricted to "Group"... and... (2) they can Set Home there. If you inspect "About Land", a parcel which is "Set To Group" still has an owner with a name.

An owner with a name. For the CDS, a very fundamental concept.

Land "Deeded to Group" has no named owner. Inspecting "About Land", one sees that the owner is the Group. There is no avatar name anywhere to be seen, which is why parcels deeded to group were excluded from citizenship qualifications. A parcel "Deeded To Group" means that everyone in the group who holds the roles which enable the abilities which control the parcel... can do so. There is no "owner". EVERY function of land control is divvied up, possibly to dozens of people. The status of "Deeded To Group" is literally a status for an active group... such as Virtus on Monastery, or the Artisan Guild on NFS. There is literally a group which has a GROUP interest in the parcel, that group controls the parcel, there is no INDIVIDUAL owner responsible for the parcel.

These are the differences. How they may be currently used is a different matter.

The documentation for Groups and Roles/Abilities is not well documented within the regular SL resources (i.e. wiki, etc.) but I did find a useful page that does outline all the group abilities and even gives opinions how they might be used for an educational group on a private island... here: http://skills.eloisepasteur.net/groups.php.

There are also abilities that can be restricted to group members in the About Land menu...there are actually a lot of controls available but the documentation for them is hard to find.