Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Bags - please provide the text from your notecard. I'll work from that suggest language for Tan.
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

Maybe we should try to keep it simple and leave some room for individual solutions instead of prescribing a detailed process how to determine what to record and how to anonymize anyone (the more for Bags said the options were never used). So we could add something like

--

5. The Chair shall keep a transcript of the meeting and post it to the CDS forums.

--

comments?
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Works for me
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Bagheera »

My personal opinion is that we should not enforce a completely public transcript as, in my experience ever since I came to CDS in 2010, there are numerous instances where someone is concerned about what some other specific person will interpret/think of what they say.

In short, it just seems a recipe to inadvertently create ill-will where none may be intended. Just because no one used the option to be anonymous in the 5 or 6 meetings I held is not a sufficient test. I believe there is value in creating a process that allows for anonymity and gives people a safe place to talk about even difficult issues.

My personal opinion, fwiw.
Tanoujin Milestone wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:11 am Maybe we should try to keep it simple and leave some room for individual solutions instead of prescribing a detailed process how to determine what to record and how to anonymize anyone (the more for Bags said the options were never used). So we could add something like

--

5. The Chair shall keep a transcript of the meeting and post it to the CDS forums.

--

comments?
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Han Held »

We're talking about formalizing something which is intended to be informal. We should be bearing that in mind.

Bagheera, please forgive my offensiveness, but your notecard idea strikes me as cumbersome and awkward. It would be better if the transcript portion was optional.

There's no requirement for permission to post logs on this (third party) forum from SL. That's a myth -we've been posting logs on SLU since 2003.

My suggestion:
5. The Chair may keep a transcript of the meeting and post it in whole or in part to the CDS forums. This is only as a courtesy for those unable to attend, and is not intended as a formal record.
That last sentence is intended to head off the cleos of the world who will argue to death the exclusion of a comma,
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Bagheera »

Widget Whiteberry wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:20 pm Bags - please provide the text from your notecard. I'll work from that suggest language for Tan.
I tend to be overly wordy, lol, but here is a sample from one of the meetings (this one was about Locus Amoenus, thus the extra questions):

= = = = = = = =

This meeting is being recorded. If you look on the carpet in front of the sofa, you will see a cat avatar named EduCat3D. This is my alt - who has no friends or groups to mess up chat, so useful for taking transcripts and keeping records.

Please complete the following questions in this notecard, save it and give a copy to EduCat3D before you leave today. Thank you.

1. Your (avatar) Name:

2. Do you own property in Locus Amoenus:
>> YES


3. Do you agree to have your conversation today included in the transcript of this meeting which will be posted on the CDS forums?
>> YES


(Opting out means your words will be replaced with an ellipses "...")
Example:
[2014/01/17 10:41] Bagheera Kristan: ...

4. Do you agree to have your attendance today included in the transcript of this meeting?
>> YES


(Opting out means your avatar's name will be replaced with "Anonymous #" )
Example:
[2014/01/17 10:41] Anonymous #1: Hi there.

Opting out of both 3 & 4, means that there will be a record of something being said at that point in the transcript.
Example:
[2014/01/17 10:41] Anonymous #1: ...


OTHER - Is there something you want to share with me, Bagheera Kristan, privately ? Please feel free to include any comments or notes.

PLEASE GIVE THIS NOTECARD to EduCat3D Resident when you are done. Thank you!
(the cat sitting on the carpet in front of the sofas)


= = = = = = = =
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Han, how is informal the equivalent of outside the intent of the law?
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Rosie Gray »

Han Held wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:55 pm My suggestion:
5. The Chair may keep a transcript of the meeting and post it in whole or in part to the CDS forums. This is only as a courtesy for those unable to attend, and is not intended as a formal record.
I like this; it's simple and to the point, leaving some room for common sense. Oh.. .wait... hmmmm :wink:
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Han Held »

Rosie Gray wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:45 pm
Han Held wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:55 pm My suggestion:
5. The Chair may keep a transcript of the meeting and post it in whole or in part to the CDS forums. This is only as a courtesy for those unable to attend, and is not intended as a formal record.
I like this; it's simple and to the point, leaving some room for common sense. Oh.. .wait... hmmmm :wink:
Thanks :D
Widget Whiteberry wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:04 pm Han, how is informal the equivalent of outside the intent of the law?
As I understand it, the intent of the law is to allow for an informal (and relaxed) meeting between government and citizenry. If we go overboard on the formalities I feel that we will end up strangling the relaxed nature and that would be counter productive. Obviously we want some structure, but we don't want to end up in a place where a relaxed meeting needs to follow roberts', either.
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Bagheera »

Han, I do not find you offensive nor do I take offense, lol. I prefer civil and honest dialogue, even when viewpoints disagree, so thank you :)

I agree with you that the transcript ought to be optional and not legally mandated. I also believe it is worthwhile to find a balance between when valuable information comes up in the same event where, at the same time, some people might choose to stay silent if they thought their words were going to be posted in a public record that would be part of the perpetual history of CDS.

Yes, people have been posting transcripts since 2003, but it is another thing entirely when it is part of a formalized procedure.

Although technology and people's blithe disregard for other's sensitivities are swiftly removing the degrees of privacy one might expect, I intend to kick and fuss over stuff like this because I believe it is the right thing to do; even as I suspect I am as effectual as a sandcastle against the tide, lol.
Han Held wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:55 pm We're talking about formalizing something which is intended to be informal. We should be bearing that in mind.

Bagheera, please forgive my offensiveness, but your notecard idea strikes me as cumbersome and awkward. It would be better if the transcript portion was optional.

There's no requirement for permission to post logs on this (third party) forum from SL. That's a myth -we've been posting logs on SLU since 2003.

My suggestion:
5. The Chair may keep a transcript of the meeting and post it in whole or in part to the CDS forums. This is only as a courtesy for those unable to attend, and is not intended as a formal record.
That last sentence is intended to head off the cleos of the world who will argue to death the exclusion of a comma,
Usually I Dislike a Cloud Sky
Tonight I Realize That a Cloud Sky
Makes Me Appreciate the Light of the Moon
- impromptu poem composed by Gen'i
as depicted in Yoshitoshi's 100 Aspects of the Moon
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

I'm all for informal. I'm all for leaving the level of formality up to the person in the gov't role who is hosting the gathering. I'm also for increasing the numbers of us who, through participation, increase our understanding of participatory, representative democracy.

Transcripts are an aid to both expanding the numbers of us who can benefit (in real time and asynchronously) and an aid to the memory of all of us. Beyond a record of what transpired, transcripts are not a mark of formality and we in CDS are familiar with the courtesy of being reminded that a meeting is 'on the record' and the option of removing ourselves from the preserved record.
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

So, can we agree on Han's formulation or are there other suggestions?
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Let's be consistent with other public meetings mandated by law; e.g. SC, RA, Commissions and Chartered NGOs.

5. The Chair or their designated agent shall capture a transcript of the meeting and post it to the CDS forums.
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Han Held »

Widget Whiteberry wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:57 am Let's be consistent with other public meetings mandated by law; e.g. SC, RA, Commissions and Chartered NGOs
That's overkill, and would stifle discussion as has already been pointed out. I strongly suggest we keep the transcripts optional, and related to governance only.

Those meetings have a different mission and intent. What is appropriate for them is not necessarily appropriate for the question hour.

Not everything needs a transcript -this is a case where I think we need to specifically allow leeway to post or omit conversation. My proposal wording strikes the right balance and I'd encourage Tan to accept it as part of the proposal he presents to the rest of the RA.
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Re: Updating NL 7-1 Gov't Question Hour Act

Post by Coop »

While I am of the opinion that a transcript has never stopped some folks from speaking their mind (or putting their foot in their mouth), I think the optional transcript is a prudent way to go. What I would like to see is a mandate for an executive summary on the meeting, even if it is short and sweet. This way you can keep track of who came and things discussed on a high level, and if something gets testy, you can have the option for an 'in the weeds' transcript.
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