Dougga SAC Survey Results

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Guillaume Mistwalker
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Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Guillaume Mistwalker »

Hello everyone,

As promised, here are the results of the last week's survey results:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-HiJg ... sp=sharing

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by AbbyRose »

I am glad the people have spoken. Will the few who have control of the sim, take heed and listen?
Do we have a Gov that listen to the people?

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by AbbyRose »

I am glad the people have spoken. Will the few who have control of the sim, take heed and listen?
Do we have a Gov that listen to the people?

Do Good. Be good. Try to be happy.
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Bells Semyorka
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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Bells Semyorka »

Thank you so much G for taking the time to do this for all of us. It's such an extensive and thought out survey. well done! **claps and sends hugs.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by ButterfliSummers »

Thank You Gaius! This is awesome feedback. I did not take this survey for two reasons:

1. I have not been here long enough to have a feel for what the community wants and I did not want to bias the results even by a small fraction on how I felt about Dougga.
2. I was asked to be on the committee so I wasn't sure participating in the survey from citizens was the proper thing to do, even though I myself am a citizen of now two parcels in CDS. lol...

With that being said and Gaius can verify as he was there...I tried to ask questions and make suggestions from the very first walk through...how much concession is there on this or that...made many suggestions as far as road choices, animals, how can this sim benefit the community, etc...my mind was on what would make the sim beautiful that would make people want to call this home. I can see from the feedback that either citizens either didn't want the sim at all or felt exactly how I had in mind.

Without going into details, I will say....most if not all of my suggestions or to be honest from what I heard that day Gaius' either have not been carried out for one reason or another. For that; I am sorry to the citizens of CDS. Keep in mind, it was an advisory committee and I did just that...advise.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Thanks for doing this, Gaius! Nice work and good presentation of the results. And the responses were quite entertaining to read!

A pity that only a third of the citizens replied, and half of those came from the anti-Dougga camp (something in line with my previous claim that only a dozen or so people are against it, but they're always very vocal about it). One would assume that such a low turnout comes mostly either from indifference, disgust and resignation (too late to change things, so why bother?), or such a trust in the success in whatever is planned on the new region that they didn't bother to answer. Sadly, we have no way to know what the vast majority of citizens actually think about it.

But, quoting Calli's quote:

Walter H. Judd wrote:

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote -- a very different thing.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Rosie Gray »

Actually, I think that some of these answers reflect the findings of the New Region Commission's findings through that commission survey and the in-world meetings. Only a few people are interested in an ancient Roman theme. Most people find it too restrictive and uninteresting.

We had 50 avatars participate in our survey and they supplied names and only one per computer could participate so that we could ensure that nobody was double-dipping to skew the answers. The survey was available for 2 weeks and widely publicized, plus we had 3 in-world meetings at various times to ask the same questions and have more in-depth discussion about the questions. The majority answers were still the same - little interest in ancient Roman.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Bagheera »

Gwyneth Llewelyn wrote:

Thanks for doing this, Gaius! Nice work and good presentation of the results. And the responses were quite entertaining to read!

A pity that only a third of the citizens replied, and half of those came from the anti-Dougga camp (something in line with my previous claim that only a dozen or so people are against it, but they're always very vocal about it). One would assume that such a low turnout comes mostly either from indifference, disgust and resignation (too late to change things, so why bother?), or such a trust in the success in whatever is planned on the new region that they didn't bother to answer. Sadly, we have no way to know what the vast majority of citizens actually think about it.

But, quoting Calli's quote:

Walter H. Judd wrote:

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote -- a very different thing.

Well, we do have a way....Bromo is taking all the risk and Dougga is ready for transfer...so there will be no need to speculate, the answer will be soon before us.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Bagheera »

Guillaume Mistwalker wrote:

Hello everyone,

As promised, here are the results of the last week's survey results:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-HiJg ... sp=sharing

Some interesting information from this survey, thank you, Gaius.

Some thing obviously cannot be changed - it is a Roman sim - however it is, I hope, not purely Roman but an opportunity to integrate elements from other cultures that were intrinsically involved in the melting pot that was the theme's time and place in the world. If you remember, Gaius, I told you part of why I picked it is because I feel CDS needs some color - socially and artistically - Dougga represents the opportunity to bring in a whole new palette.

Obviously, with only 13 people, this survey doesn't represent a consensus but in a community where every voice should count, I think some valuable insights can be found here.

I think the person who thinks the current sims could benefit from some major renovations is correct, however I disagree with their opinion that all growth should stop until we currently renovate what we have. Our sims are full to bursting, making room for new people is a different track than building renovations, and opening up the door to one often catalyzes the other, at least from what I've seen in the real world.

Since this survey was released the same day that all the initial work on Dougga has been completed, it makes it a challenge to integrate some of the ideas but I am happy to report that some of them are already part of the sim design. There is a 32m wide greenbelt spanning the length of the sim where it will join with Colonia Nova, a smaller meeting space (with consideration of Gwyn's public request for something VS might use) and park has been planned for the Northwest overlook, the Northeast Harbor has space for small gatherings, etc. Poses have not been integrated into anything yet but can certainly be done.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Bagheera »

ButterfliSummers wrote:

With that being said and Gaius can verify as he was there...I tried to ask questions and make suggestions from the very first walk through...how much concession is there on this or that...made many suggestions as far as road choices, animals, how can this sim benefit the community, etc...my mind was on what would make the sim beautiful that would make people want to call this home. I can see from the feedback that either citizens either didn't want the sim at all or felt exactly how I had in mind.

Without going into details, I will say....most if not all of my suggestions or to be honest from what I heard that day Gaius' either have not been carried out for one reason or another.

I think going into the details would be important, Butterfli.

For example, you wanted the roads narrower, Gaius said they were fine. I narrowed the roads half as much as you recommended because otherwise there would be huge gaps and also Dougga is a terraced city. I shared with both of you a photograph of Dougga showing the wideness of the road which inspired my decision.

Gaius wanted the layout to be both urban and rural. I explained to him that I had taken the actual map of Dougga and overlaid it on a sim-grid in GIMP to see what would work, ultimately deciding on an urban core because it was just too much to stuff both urban and rural into the space of one sim.

People wanted a forum, a bathhouse, an amphitheater, a whole host of things - and in fact, these all existed in Dougga - but if the sim is going to support itself, the government cannot build all of these features into the sim, along with the greenbelt, the harbor, the park, and have enough land left over to support itself. It is hoped that if someone wants something - for example, a bathhouse - it is something that they can integrate into their own parcel, much like people have done in other sims in CDS - from the Antiquariat in NFS and the Old Bowl in AM, to Tor's winery in LA.

As I understand it, also, the commission's work is not done, so it would be premature to say the commission was ignored. I hope I have already demonstrated that I did listen, at least. There is a reason for every design choice I made and I am happy to go over all of them, which I hope was obvious already.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Cadence Theas »

Bagheera wrote:

Obviously, with only 13 people, this survey doesn't represent a consensus but in a community where every voice should count, I think some valuable insights can be found here.

Then why bother consulting with anyone? What is the point of a consultative process that the chancellor himself approved if then the chancellor and his commission disregard the results? Very convenient to say, "yes, but..." Results are results. It would be like saying that the person with the sixth number of votes take the fifth place in the RA, because after all, he or she represents a minority opinion. Bags, you cannot invent democracy on the fly. That is dishonest, bad politics, and against the expectations of the CDS citizens. And you can imagine the incoherence of governance, if the chancellor disregards the results of his own commission's survey. Lets see if you can spin that out of existence.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Bagheera »

Cadence Theas wrote:
Bagheera wrote:

Obviously, with only 13 people, this survey doesn't represent a consensus but in a community where every voice should count, I think some valuable insights can be found here.

Then why bother consulting with anyone? What is the point of a consultative process that the chancellor himself approved if then the chancellor and his commission disregard the results? Very convenient to say, "yes, but..." Results are results. It would be like saying that the person with the sixth number of votes take the fifth place in the RA, because after all, he or she represents a minority opinion. Bags, you cannot invent democracy on the fly. That is dishonest, bad politics, and against the expectations of the CDS citizens. And you can imagine the incoherence of governance, if the chancellor disregards the results of his own commission's survey. Lets see if you can spin that out of existence.

Cadence, did you read what you are quoting past the first comma? the part that says ....every voice should count...? and then I go on to talk about the results of the survey and how much has actually made it into the sim already? Did you read the part that you did NOT quote that pointed out the challenge of incorporating information submitted AFTER the sim has been prepared to turn over to CDS? no spinning happening here.

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Makes Me Appreciate the Light of the Moon
- impromptu poem composed by Gen'i
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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Cadence Theas »

Bagheera wrote:

Cadence, did you read what you are quoting past the first comma? the part that says ....every voice should count...? and then I go on to talk about the results of the survey and how much has actually made it into the sim already? Did you read the part that you did NOT quote that pointed out the challenge of incorporating information submitted AFTER the sim has been prepared to turn over to CDS? no spinning happening here.

And no regard for the fact that the majority opinion is to develop NSF East and West, and not a Roman sim. Sounds like someone is bicycling in the air.

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Re: Dougga SAC Survey Results

Post by Bagheera »

Cadence Theas wrote:
Bagheera wrote:

Cadence, did you read what you are quoting past the first comma? the part that says ....every voice should count...? and then I go on to talk about the results of the survey and how much has actually made it into the sim already? Did you read the part that you did NOT quote that pointed out the challenge of incorporating information submitted AFTER the sim has been prepared to turn over to CDS? no spinning happening here.

And no regard for the fact that the majority opinion is to develop NSF East and West, and not a Roman sim. Sounds like someone is bicycling in the air.

Majority opinion?

NSF East and West are happening on a separate track. Bromo explained his decision.

I'll be bicycling in the air if Dougga doesn't fill up...until then, let's wait and see...

Usually I Dislike a Cloud Sky
Tonight I Realize That a Cloud Sky
Makes Me Appreciate the Light of the Moon
- impromptu poem composed by Gen'i
as depicted in Yoshitoshi's 100 Aspects of the Moon
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