Revising the GMP

Forum to discuss and coordinate the expansion of the CDS and the redevelopment of existing territories.

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Patroklus Murakami
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Revising the GMP

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

I understand the newly-established Land Use Commission has been asked by the RA to update the General Master Plan for new region development. The GMP has not been updated since 2008, is arguably in conflict with the current sims we have and is certainly in need of a refresher.

One thing I'd like the LUC to keep in mind is the Linden Lab Community Partnership Program

At some point this term I would like to begin discussions with Linden Lab about *potential* CDS participation in this Program. I'm *not* saying we will do this but I'd like to keep the option open as I can see some significant potential advantages for us. It requires lots of discussion as there are potential downsides too and we need to take into account how people feel about it too.

One requirement of the Program is that a participating community has a minimum of ten regions and at least a third of these must be full private islands.

So, I'd like the LUC to consider how we could expand the CDS to a 10-region (or larger) estate which meets the CLPP requirements. I expect this would look like a complete island with NFS at its highest point and reaching sea-level all around the coast. Many of the regions would be homesteads or open spaces to begin with and could be upgraded to full regions as our numbers expand. Our GMP should include a plan for upgrading some or all or the regions to full regions to accommodate more citizens.

We would, of course, need to consider how to pay for these additional regions. Homesteads and open spaces cost less than full regions but are by no means free!

We would also need to consider how the CDS could be expanded beyond these 10 (or so) regions. One option might be to establish another multi-regional CDS island adjacent to the original one where a joint sea link maintains physical contiguity and integrity. The CDS could then become an archipelago of multi-region private islands connected to the mainland by a sea link.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

We would also need to consider how the CDS could be expanded beyond these 10 (or so) regions. One option might be to establish another multi-regional CDS island adjacent to the original one where a joint sea link maintains physical contiguity and integrity. The CDS could then become an archipelago of multi-region private islands connected to the mainland by a sea link.

Regardless of whether we evolve into some sort of Community Partnership arrangement with Linden Lab, I find the idea of an archipelago of multi-region private islands very appealing.

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Josie Fotherington
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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Josie Fotherington »

Question for Pat: what do you feel would be the benefits to the CDS if it were accepted into the CLPP program?

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Coop »

Just to put on my 'Conspiracy Guy' hat...

It was always my feeling that this was the Lab's way of bringing successful private estates back into the fold and propping up the mainland. I'd need some really concrete and hard evidence as to the benefit of this, that would outweigh the loss of autonomy.

Plus the CLPP wiki entry says it is 500 USD down, 500 USD a year. So, add that on top of adding 5 sims (and filling those sims) and this looks like a good way to spend down that reserve in the treasury.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Timo Gufler »

If the CLPP can merge the CDS to the mainland sailing waters (and flying regions), I'm in favor of the plan and taking the merger into account in the GMP. US$500/year would be same as about US$4.17/sim/month, if we have ten sims. That's pretty acceptable, in my opinion.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Widget Whiteberry »

Why do you (or anyone with a feel for the overview) suppose that - in the eyes of LL – the mainland needs 'propping up'? edited to add "in the eyes of LL."

Last edited by Widget Whiteberry on Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Patroklus Murakami
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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

Josie Fotherington wrote:

Question for Pat: what do you feel would be the benefits to the CDS if it were accepted into the CLPP program?

I think this is one for us to consider very carefully. I'm *not* saying I'm 100% in favour of this idea. I'm quite prepared to accept that we may investigate it, hit it with a pole a few times and say "nah, not worth it mate" :) As Coop points out, there is an additional $US 500 a year fee we would have to cover. As Timo points out, that's not so much when you spread it over 10 regions and break it down month-by-month but it still needs to be paid for.

The potential benefits would be some or all of the ones enjoyed by the current private estates which link to the mainland via the Blake Sea (though that particular joining is off limits for us). These include:

  • * profile. We would be much more visible if connected to the mainland. This program would help to put us back in the mainstream of Second Life. We currently exist somewhat on the margins. We are more 'infamous' than famous!
    * visitors. If we were able to link to somewhere down the coast from the Blake Sea via a sea connection, we would become a destination. People would be able to sail to us as and land on the beach at LA. Via sea routes or just from the higher profile, we would have a lot more visitors than we currently do.
    * citizens. If some or all of the additional regions are full regions or homesteads, we will have space for many more citizens. Will they come? Well, I think the higher profile and volume of visitors would help us here

As we research this idea a bit more I expect we will come up with some other potential benefits and identify more of the downsides. I'd just like us all to keep an open mind and explore the concept without committing ourselves one way or the other. If the revised GMP could also take this into account as a possibility then that might save us a lot of time further down the track if we decide it's a concept worth pursuing.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Rosie Gray »

Might be a good idea to think about what Sudane said in her post about this topic here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 559#p36559

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Sudane Erato »

Rosie Gray wrote:

Might be a good idea to think about what Sudane said in her post about this topic here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 559#p36559

Yes, please do take note of what I said in that post. But, that said, I agree with Pat's very cautious and careful consideration of this program. It MAY have very large benefits for the CDS... it certainly has very large benefits for the United Sailing Sims (USS) estates which surround the Blake, benefits which are basically what Pat outlined. But, in addition to the cost, it might also have other disadvantages, such as perhaps there being no suitable location which would meet the goals of joining the program.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Coop »

Just based on an average of say 25 parcels for public sale per sim, times 5 sims is 125 parcels, and figuring that should be a 1 body per parcel ratio (even if you look at the reality of land caps per current resident) means CDS needs to worry more about marketing and image in the short term.

Yes expansion is great, and short term funding may not be an issue, but if you really want to pull this off you had better get some bodies.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Victor1 »

Bad idea...

Take a look at the other large estates that have been around for a long time, Caledon, New Babbage, Steelhead, the older Chung continents before they broke up, Lionheart, Winterfell...list goes on and on.

Not one of them joined the "lets glue bits to the mainland" incentive.

Maybe you should sit down and ask one good question... "Why?"

...but hey, what do I know, ive been flat out ignored anyway...

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Sudane Erato »

Victor, not a single one of those estates was ever offered the opportunity. Perhaps you should ask them now that the program is in place whether they'd see any advantage.

The very first time that that a private sim was ever connected to a mainland sim was when LL developed their own area called Nautilus. They conceived the idea of adding the Blake Sea to the east of it, and then approached the recently formed USS with the concept of connecting that cooperative of private estates to the east of the Blake. The project was wildly successful... the USS sims prospered, and we were besieged with requests to join our group. The biggest obstacle to adding new estates was that LL was very stingy in providing new connection points.

The project benefited LL hugely, because it provided all SL residents with a PG-rated recreational fun activity area. And it benefited the estates because it was grid-wide visible... especially the estates immediately butting the Blake became jammed with people... and profitable.

But there were also lots of problems... basically human behavior. Sailors conflicted with pirates conflicted with marine warfare conflicted with air fights. Finally, through many changes of LL administration, they decided to put into place many of the rules and restrictions on the Blake that we had been asking for, but they also locked down our ability to add new estates and estate owners. They conceived that this would retain the benefits for them, and eliminate the headaches for them.

Instead, they launched the CLPP, whereby any large estate could connect to the mainland. But... LL doesn't really want to encourage this, hence the complete and total lack of publicity for the program, and the high entrance fees. The program is simply a sop for those estates who really want to connect to the Blake but who are now excluded from that. Only one other estate, the Seychelles Islands, have taken advantage of the program.

Please do understand. I am the current coordinator of the USS and participated in the discussions with Patch Linden when this program was established and the restrictions were clamped on the USS. I know very well what LL's intent is here, and I know very well the huge benefit the connection provides to the USS estates. Of course, I have no idea what position other EO's take about this.

But none of the other estates had the opportunity to make this connection before, and most of them are probably not aware of it. You might chat with some of them to see what they think. There are indeed big advantages and big disadvantages.

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Re: Revising the GMP

Post by Josie Fotherington »

I'm very neutral about this. I'm not against it, but I feel like the benefits need to be amazing in order to go for it...and I am not sure if they are. We now know there can be no attaching to the Blake Sea. Is there any other place on the mainland grid that is as popular/desired as the Blake Sea? Sudane says one estate has joined the CLPP. I'd like to know what kind of traffic they have coming in from the mainland now.

The primary way to get around in SL is to teleport. Very few people walk or fly to where they are going UNLESS there is something really, really useful attached to a sim, like the Blake Sea. Perhaps Seychelles has seen increased traffic from the mainland moving through them? It would be good to know if attaching to the mainland has benefited their traffic, or if the primary entry method is still TPs.

As I said, I'm on the fence. I'd need to see concrete numbers of increased traffic and estate sales before I'd be fully on board. What can we do in order to get that information, or estimates at least?

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