RA Town Hall Meeting 2 May 2010: Transcript - Part 1

[mikeloserevi]

9:02] Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting on the CDS forums
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: hello all
[9:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Silvia
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: i'll send a couple more IMS and then i suggest we begin
[9:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi sylvia
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: is this an open meeting?
[9:02] Kaseido Quandry: hi Sylvia
[9:02] Sylvia Tinkel: i'm not a citizen yet
[9:02] Patroklus Murakami: open meeting, all welcome
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: hey Tor!
[9:04] Lilith Ivory: hi Tor
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: Hi Sonja
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Lilith
[9:04] Sylvia Tinkel: Ji tor
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all!
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: G' Day Tor
[9:04] Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
[09:02] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting on the CDS forums
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: same Ranma
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: shall we begin then?
[9:05] Mikelo Serevi: sure
[9:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think Arias is coming
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: i'll give a quick recap of why we are here
[9:06] Mikelo Serevi: people will probably filter in
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: and then we can all dive in
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: yes, ppl will probably arrive during as well
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: these 'town hall ' meetings were set up to be held in between the regular RA meetings
[9:06] Patroklus Murakami: the idea was that we could hold these in a more informal style
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: and get more citizen input than is possible in the structured, formal RA meetings
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: so far, they've been pretty successful
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: we held one meeting previously to discuss the merger between AA and the CDS
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: let me find the link
[9:07] Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2801
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: is the first page of the transcript
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: This is the second of the meetings to discuss the merger
[9:08] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
[9:08] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know that Patty
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Hail King Stui
[9:08] Patroklus Murakami: as many of you will know, the merger has been in place for almost a year now
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening Lil
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good Evening Kas
[9:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and Good Evening Tor
[9:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening ALL
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: and, at the one year point in July, either the AA Estate Owner or the CDS Represnativative Assembly can choose to dissolve the merger
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[9:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[9:09] Arias Ahren: Hi Arria
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: so this meeting is being held to discuss our views on the merger, whehther it should continue and so on
[9:09] Sylvia Tinkel: Hi Arria
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: that will help to inform the choices to be made
[9:09] Arria Perreault: nice crown, Stui
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: i should say that it will be the next RA which makes the decision
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou AP It was a gift from an admiring fan
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: elections are this month, and the ppl elected as reps will have a chance to vote on it
[9:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I'll sit next to Patty
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: Hi Rose
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: so, now we have a few more here
[9:10] Rose Springvale: hello, rezzing
[9:10] Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: let me remind everyone to click the box in the centre
[9:11] Sylvia Tinkel: Hi rose
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: to indicate consent to be recorder
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: recorded
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: we will publish a transcript of the meeting later
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: and, with that, let's begin
[9:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I wondered what that was on your back Patty I thought it was a table tennis bat
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: i think it's called an uchiwa
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: don't be shy folks
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can't sit next to Patty it won't let me
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: this is your opportunity to say what you think about the merger between AA and CDS. go ahead!
[9:13] Danton Sideways: neat people can sit under the trees?
[9:13] Danton Sideways: q
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: aww, not my fault stui. i could not sit on that bit either. it's nothing personal
[9:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at STH we talked Merger
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: well at first I wanted the union to continue, however the merger has not really happened
[9:14] Pip Torok: can i suggest that Rose talks first?
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that was Wednesday
[9:14] Rose Springvale: not here to talk
[9:14] Pip Torok: ah
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Rose?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: yes?
[9:14] Arias Ahren: Please
[9:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's open meeting and so everyone can speak if they want to
[9:14] Arias Ahren: don't keep silent
[9:14] Arria Perreault: yes, please
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i'm here to listen folks
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: the atmosphere in the forums has become so toxic
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's a matter of choice and opinion
[9:15] Arria Perreault: there are still so many open questions
[9:15] Mikelo Serevi: I don't support the merger any more myself, partly because it seems to have annoyed so many people
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: while i would love to hear what rose has to say too, it's not really up to us to pressure her
[9:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: at STH's and talking to people we have mixed opinions
[9:15] Jayme Mistwalker: as a CDS citizen I think the merger would benefit us, but I feel like there's hostility
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[9:16] Ranma Tardis: Pat I am sure as a leader she wants to hear other peoples views and not unduly influence or pressure them
[9:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and there is a lot of that is broken down to a basic lack of trust and knowledge on one side or the other
[9:16] Pip Torok: Could I suggest that an AA resident (with nothing in CDS) speak?
[9:16] Danton Sideways: STH = Stui's Talking Hour
[9:16] Arria Perreault: for me, I think any merger is a good idea, but we really have to know all the consequences
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: do we have any here?
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I don't believe AA is atempting to change the democratic nature of CDS. The merger is good.
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: Schmilson! hey!
[9:17] Arias Ahren: Ever since humans first chisled something into stone there was someone upstream shisiling that the folks downstream were full of it
[9:17] Schmilsson Nilsson: Hello! Waiting for everything to rez before sitting.
[9:17] Mikelo Serevi: What exactly are the benefits of the merger, besides expansion?
[9:17] Pip Torok: lol Arias ...
[9:17] Ranma Tardis: the cds is an electorial democracy as Rudy would say
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Too much has been said in the forums about AA not being democratic or suggesting that CDS will not be dem. after a merger.
[9:17] Jayme Mistwalker: is that true?
[9:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think there is a basic belief in AA that the RA is somewhat indifferent to the concerns of AA
[9:18] Pip Torok: i'd say that the merger is culturally enriching on both sides
[9:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or not necessarily sympathetic to the wider cultural mission of the sims
[9:18] Rose Springvale: stui?
[9:18] Rose Springvale: are you speaking for yourself or all of AA?
[9:18] Arria Perreault: I think, if we continue the merger, we have to review the AA master plan and price policy, with a review of the CDS price policy (average prim price). If we can't act in one AA sim (in respect of the theme), it's not a real merger
[9:18] Ranma Tardis: an electorial democracy is not a true one, it has all of the apperance of one but does not function
[9:18] Kaseido Quandry: I think Pip's expressed the hope -and the reality, outside the political class
[9:18] Mikelo Serevi: we can exchange culture without merging
[9:18] Patroklus Murakami: did AA understand what the CDS democracy was like before joining?
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the two can coexist
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: it isn't a problem for CN and NFS to be together in the same estate
[9:19] Rose Springvale: i thought this was to be a conversation about what CDS citizens wanted. if its all speculation about AA then i'll go
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: some things do not mix well a peach and mushroom taste nice but not toughter
[9:19] Mikelo Serevi: well ranma, I think past a certain size, a direct democracy just won't work
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: very different sims and covenants
[9:19] Patroklus Murakami: well, the AA citizens could tell us
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: our community is very small
[9:19] Arria Perreault: Rose, we have opinions, but also questions
[9:19] Rose Springvale: you have here only one citizen of solely AA
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: I think what AA wants is important
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: we could aske questions and get them answered
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I have asked a question above. this is a key question for me
[9:20] Rose Springvale: sigh
[9:20] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:20] Pip Torok: Then what i as a half-CDS man wants are 2 EO's totally happy with whAT we eventually decide
[9:20] Rose Springvale: what do you want to know?
[9:20] Arria Perreault: it will influe my opinion on the merger
[9:20] Patroklus Murakami: how about joint citizens? do they not know their neighbours' views?
[9:20] Rose Springvale: money?
[9:20] Arria Perreault: I think, if we continue the merger, we have to review the AA master plan and price policy, with a review of the CDS price policy (average prim price). If we can't act in one AA sim (in respect of the theme), it's not a real merger
[9:20] Sylvia Tinkel: Isn't the fact that only one citizen of AA is here kind of relevant?
[9:20] Mikelo Serevi: I want to know if the AA citizens want the merger
[9:20] Rose Springvale: did you read my forum post yesterday regarding reserves?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: "clarifying misconceptions"
[9:21] Kaseido Quandry: I see at least half a dozen AA citizens here, Sylvia
[9:21] Ranma Tardis: yes it is all about the money, sighs the CDS has the highest tier rate in sl
[9:21] Sylvia Tinkel: oh, I thought Rose said only one was here
[9:21] Sylvia Tinkel: nm
[9:21] Arria Perreault: my question is: can we review Sacromonte next term?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: only one AA ONLY
[9:21] Kaseido Quandry: no, only one who isn't a citizen of AA *only*
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: money is one issue, there are others
[9:21] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement provided that no tier or land changes would occur during the first year, so long as LL didn't change anything.
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Tier might be the undemocratic aspect of CDS.
[9:22] Rose Springvale: My understanding is the Sacromonte is rented
[9:22] Ranma Tardis: I have nothing to do with the CDS by choice
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: It is too high.
[9:22] Mikelo Serevi: What is undemocratic about tier, tor?
[9:22] Ranma Tardis: I am a member of a land owning group in AA
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: It keeps many new people out of CDS
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: tor, tier rates can be changed
[9:22] Arria Perreault: it was not when we have tried to work on this project
[9:22] Tor Karlsvalt: keeps the community static.
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: not having any land to sell keeps ppl out of CDS!
[9:23] Rose Springvale: on sacromonte. but you wanted to divide it up and charge different tier.
[9:23] Pip Torok agrees with Pat
[9:23] Tor Karlsvalt: there is land
[9:23] Arria Perreault: yes, exactly
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tier is a fundamental issue
[9:23] Kaseido Quandry: Tor's absolutely right - th model makes it clear new blood isn't wanted
[9:23] Sylvia Tinkel: it can be a good thing or a bad thing but high tier can't really be "undemocratic"
[9:23] Ranma Tardis: Pat, the CDS has a obsence amount of reserve
[9:23] Mikelo Serevi: I thought we were talking about the merger
[9:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes sylvia it can and is
[9:23] Arria Perreault: if the RA decide that, can we implemente this decision or not?
[9:23] Kaseido Quandry: of course it can- high rates shut out broad participation
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa whoa
[9:23] Rose Springvale: after the merger is final, of course. but you'll have to evict the tenant
[9:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: two moments
[9:23] Sonja Strom: There are some parcels available right now that have very low tier.
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: back to the merger folks
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: Pat the RA can do anything they please, no checks on its power
[9:24] Sylvia Tinkel: it's the wrong term to use
[9:24] Arria Perreault: thank you
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: we are not discussing the high tier rates just now
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it's becoming a bit of a free for all and it's difficult to ascertain the direction of the conversation
[9:24] Rose Springvale: i'll oppose it, because its not a good way to serve people. but it will be the RA decision
[9:24] Patroklus Murakami: save it for another time
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: true, in NFS
[9:24] Arria Perreault: (we can wait a vacancy, of course)
[9:24] Ranma Tardis: that is my objection to the CDS
[9:24] Kaseido Quandry: if citizenship is tied to parcel ownership, and parcels are phenomenally expensive, what *would* you call it?
[9:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rose is right tho
[9:24] Jayme Mistwalker: good point, kas
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: people in AA don't want large land masses split into small plots
[9:25] Rose Springvale: stui
[9:25] Rose Springvale: again, are you speaking for yourself of for AA?
[9:25] Rose Springvale: i've not heard that sentiment
[9:25] Arria Perreault: we can make affordable plots and first review our price polic, Kas
[9:25] Pip Torok: well ARE they expensive if its needed to pay the sim and keep an adequare reserve?
[9:25] Sylvia Tinkel: I would call that a group of very rich peopel practicing democracy
[9:25] Ranma Tardis: why not buy more sims?
[9:25] Arria Perreault: it was one of the idea concerning Saaacromonte
[9:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have related to the nature reserve
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, look at market rates across SL
[9:25] Rose Springvale: Arria
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: we seem to be dancing around every topic but the merger at the moment
[9:26] Rose Springvale: there is land right now in a full prim sim that merely needs the cooperation of the Exec office to set for sale
[9:26] Ranma Tardis: one can be gotten cheap, people are giving them back to LL
[9:26] Rose Springvale: so why deal with sacromonte?
[9:26] Mikelo Serevi: I pay 2600/mo, I wouldn't say that's expensive
[9:26] Arria Perreault: Sacromonte makes only one person as citizen and not for a cheap price
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: "pay extra so we can maintain a slush fund" isn't exactly a big marketing draw
[9:26] Pip Torok: yes Kas but look at what we offer as opposed to what they offer ... its a buyers mkt ...
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: can i suggest some questions to structure our discussion?
[9:26] Arria Perreault: there are 3 very cheap parcels in NFS now
[9:26] Pip Torok: please yes Pat
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: what did people hope to get out of the merger?
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami: has the past year met your expectations?
[9:27] Ranma Tardis: due to the differences of the groups, I think the merger should be canceled
[9:27] Arria Perreault: I have tried to give one of them to a friend of Stui who wanted a cheap parcel
[9:27] Pip Torok: The pride of being a citizen of both without qualification
[9:27] Patroklus Murakami notes this is like herding cats
[9:27] Sonja Strom: It seems to me like the merger has been very stressful, to my disappointment.
[9:27] Ranma Tardis: the RA will get more and more involved in the AA dictating they wants and desires
[9:27] Mikelo Serevi: politically, CDA and AA are like oil and water, imo
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I mentioned tier only to point out that both CDS and AA have areas where democracy can be broadened.
[9:28] Mikelo Serevi: We share a lot of people and were friendly before
[9:28] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped to get a revitalised community out of it. joint projects, cross-fertilisation of ideas
[9:28] Rose Springvale: ranma, are you speaking for CDS or AA now?
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS should not fear AA
[9:28] Ranma Tardis: AA of course
[9:28] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo's right - if we define "CDS" as "this term's RA"
[9:28] Pip Torok: it wd be good to have a 100% AA resident to confirm that or not, Mikelo
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: i think there is too much of that sentiment.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: hi jamie
[9:29] Ranma Tardis: the FIC of the CDS makes money from it
[9:29] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
[9:29] Pip Torok: hi Jamie
[9:29] Kaseido Quandry: the more time I spend just with people in CDS, the more I realize "l'etat c'est moi" isn't nearly as true as some woud like
[9:29] Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Jamie
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped that AA citizens would learn about and participate actively in the CDS representative democracy
[9:30] Pip Torok wonders just who those "some" are! ...
[9:30] Lilith Ivory: Hi Keila
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: i hoped that the current factions would expand, new ones would form and we would do some work together on issues of religious and political tolerance
[9:30] Rose Springvale: it would be helpful to me if people would talk about facts instead of theories and presumptions
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I think there are AA citizens on RA
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: and I noticed that sevral are running for AA
[9:30] Jamie Palisades waves laggily & smiles. we ha e an FIC? damn, Gwyn & Sudane must have sent all the dough to Goldman Sachs while I wasn't looking
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: RA*
[9:30] Rose Springvale: and i don't speek french
[9:30] Ranma Tardis: yes the CDS has a inner circle
[9:30] Rose Springvale: no
[9:30] Arria Perreault: it was a saying of Louis the 14th: I am the state
[9:31] Arria Perreault: King of France
[9:31] Rose Springvale: CDS has people who have a lot of writing on the forum
[9:31] Sylvia Tinkel whispers: every communicty has an
[9:31] Pip Torok: well Rose, I feel that more objection to the merger comes from yourself than from AA citizens ... but if I am wroplease tell me
[9:31] Ranma Tardis: Neualtenberg as I knew it has been destroyed
[9:31] Rose Springvale: but i dont' believe there is an inner circle
[9:31] Sylvia Tinkel: inner circle" in the same senxe as the CDS has one
[9:31] Mikelo Serevi: Right, and it's an odd thing to say, since CDS is really about democracy
[9:31] Tor Karlsvalt: So I think AA citizens are beginning to take part in CDS institutions
[9:31] Patroklus Murakami: what did ppl hope to get out of the merger?
[9:31] Pip Torok: *wrong please tell me
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Pip, i merely am asking cds to stand by its agreement
[9:32] Sylvia Tinkel: Neualtenburg was destroyed by Ulrika Ranma
[9:32] Ranma Tardis: first the CDS will raise tier and pay themselves
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip there is opposition to the Merger
[9:32] Ranma Tardis: no it was destroyed by the coup
[9:32] Pip Torok: ye Stui BUT WHERE FROM?
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can confirm it but not who... it's for those people to state their opposition
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: /
[9:32] Sylvia Tinkel: never heard of any coup
[9:32] Rose Springvale: sylvia and ranma, i really love you both, but i don't think as non citizens you are helping our discussions right now
[9:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not for me to give them over to a badgering by witnesses of the meeting
[9:32] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. seems like so much uncertainty has been raised about whether the merger will continue or not that the CDS RA is reluctant to waste time for no outcome
[9:32] Mikelo Serevi: See, I'm hearing accusations of elitism and corruption, but where to people get these ideas?
[9:33] Rose Springvale: agree mikelo
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: well, who opposed it the first time?
[9:33] Ranma Tardis: the cds is a dictatorship in the guise of a democracy, there was no way to vote them
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: i agree with rose on this i'm afraid. a trip down memory lane is not helpful
[9:33] Pip Torok agrees with Mikelo
[9:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would say Mikelo they'd get it from watching certain RA meetings at times
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I think I have understood that the opposition is mainly seen in in-action rather than overt action,
[9:33] Sylvia Tinkel: I must object to Ranma just sputing hateful things without any kind of support and that are not relevant to the discussion
[9:33] Tor Karlsvalt: No NP set up, no effort to help run AA etc
[9:33] Ranma Tardis: I opposed it at first because the 2 groups are so different
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: It's easy to shoot arrows, and planty have been shot
[9:34] Mikelo Serevi: Is it too much to ask people to fight fair?
[9:34] Pip Torok: but Ranma youre a citizen of neither atm!
[9:34] Danton Sideways: NP= non profit
[9:34] Ranma Tardis: Sylvia you were not a citizen during that time
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: I was in another avatar
[9:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we are at times as a representative assembly very good at representing the divisions over the solidarity
[9:34] Ranma Tardis: actually I am a member of a land owning group in AA
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Can we ever just learn to let water run off our backs
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: my point is to just shout nasty things about past history is to derail the debate
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Ranma, neither were you
[9:34] Sylvia Tinkel: whether true or not
[9:34] Arria Perreault: I was very in favour of this merger at the beginning of the term. I told it publicly as LRA in my inaugural address. Then we got agressive reactions for the 2-3 first meetings. And what we have tried to do in AA was blocked. Then I have started to have doubts. Did we really merge? The only signs we have on the merger are the financial reports. Sorry to say that, but it is the reality.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: surprised to hear that ranma
[9:35] Tor Karlsvalt: Do we ALWAYS have to address little jibs.
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: I think aggressive reactions are a mild way to put it
[9:35] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:35] Rose Springvale: can we please speak in specifics?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: especially the second meeting
[9:35] Rose Springvale: generalizations do not help clarify anything.
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: bulling is more the term I'd use
[9:35] Ranma Tardis: why I am a citizen of Caledon
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: what was blocked, Arria?
[9:35] Mikelo Serevi: bullying
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: I agree Rose
[9:35] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it is my hope that the next RA can work together more
[9:35] Danton Sideways: the merged RA has worked ok for a year now
[9:36] Pip Torok: I believe the real "battle" is between the angry vs the non-angry .. not CDS versus AA
[9:36] Rose Springvale: i thnk so too pip.
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: I'm here to work out positive soutions, not squabble, but it's becoming difficult
[9:36] Arria Perreault: we have tried to start a project in Sacromonte at a time where it was empty. We have presented that as a project for both community to work together. I have personnally been very disapointed with the reaction we got.
[9:36] Mikelo Serevi: So, merger, yes or no?
[9:36] Ranma Tardis: what you did not know Sylvia, I was told to shut up and I had promised myself not to be the "angry chick" pardon me
[9:37] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am walking the thin line between one path and the other
[9:37] Sylvia Tinkel: I agree with Rose that we should stay with substantive things
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: it's felt to me over the past year like sometimes we are merged and sometimes we aren't
[9:37] Rose Springvale: Arria, i have explained that what RA wanted to do in Sacromonte was premature and that there is another sim for you to work on. Why do you find that disappointing?
[9:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree, and responces to jibs can be taken IM
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: over sacromonte, we were not mergerd
[9:37] Patroklus Murakami: warned off
[9:37] Mikelo Serevi: The merger seems to have created a lot of friction
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: concrete's good. Arria, what was blocked? Pat, the "some of RA" that you say think they don't want to put time into AA ? specifics on that? you refer to yourself?
[9:37] Arria Perreault: I am sure today that if we were able to do this project together, the mood regarding the merger would be very diferent
[9:38] Rose Springvale: then move it to almunecar.. .which is what i've said since the original conversation
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Almunecar is not rented
[9:38] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I put this on the agenda for the next meeting
[9:38] Arria Perreault: next sunday
[9:38] Rose Springvale: and start it after the merger is final but in the meantime, work on setting Albaycin forward
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Delia has worked on this and carried the tier for a year now
[9:38] Pip Torok: one thing I know is that it takes only 1-2 angries to make it appear there is no hope for a merger
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, rose. why did u not sort out the CDS side of the merger when you were in power?
[9:38] Rose Springvale: and it is tstill not set for sale
[9:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Yeah AP I think the problem with Sacromonte was just that the rental was probably being planned at the same time the RA was making plans.
[9:39] Arria Perreault: ok, Rose
[9:39] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:39] Rose Springvale: pat
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: you are now blaming the current RA and chancellor for inaction
[9:39] Arria Perreault: we can start now with the conception of the project by steeing a workgroup
[9:39] Ranma Tardis: am not angry with the CDS just disapointed
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: particularly on the Non-Profit
[9:39] Rose Springvale: jamie and i did our job pat.
[9:39] Rose Springvale: the non profit is set up.
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: why did u not do it when you had the chance?
[9:39] Rose Springvale: read my post on clarifying misconcetions
[9:39] Patroklus Murakami: which non-profit?
[9:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well it could be said that a lot of the issues with the merger are arrived at because people don't speak out
[9:40] Ranma Tardis: but the CDS makes a profit
[9:40] Rose Springvale: this RA has taken the position that there is no need for a non profit because CDS doesn't want to go there, despite its agreement
[9:40] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to see the agreement, i have it on a notecard
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: :/ pat that might take better than an iPhone connection to answer well - but we DID. that things fell apart afterwards is a good Q for current RA & govt
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: the RA has taken no position on that qn rose
[9:40] Mikelo Serevi: I don't whink we've decided against a non profit, rose
[9:40] Rose Springvale: nor any steps to complet our work
[9:40] Pip Torok: Ranma ... saying any sim "makes a profit" is misleading ...
[9:40] Patroklus Murakami: did you tell anyone what needs to be done?
[9:40] Ranma Tardis: AA is non profit, the CDS is all about profit
[9:41] Arria Perreault: Albaycin too. I will contact Delia about that
[9:41] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, profit does imply people are collecting, and we certainly aren't
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: there was the discussion about raising the profitability of the AA sims
[9:41] Rose Springvale: pat, at some point, it is the RA job to do its job
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but how can you raise profit on a non profit ?
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt: possibly the problem was the transition at the beinnig of the term-- lack of willing communication
[9:41] Pip Torok: no Ranma ... CDS is abou surviving financially
[9:41] Ranma Tardis: why do we have to make more money than tier?
[9:41] Arria Perreault: it's very important that we can influe the land management in AA
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AA has been criticised for the costs it incurs at RA
[9:41] Patroklus Murakami: hmm difficult to do what ppl expect you to do if they don't tell you what they expect
[9:41] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I have seen two sets of figures
[9:41] Rose Springvale: folks, lets focus
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we will respect the theme and until now CDS has made a good job in all sims
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which ones are the correct ones ?
[9:42] Rose Springvale: money is the least of our issues
[9:42] Pip Torok: you did nt hear me Ranma ... CDS is about surviving financially
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS holds too much money.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: e.g. on the AA voids - isn't the right question what a TENANT CITIZEN wants to to do with it? all AA land managements has BEEN subject to CDS jurisdiction for a year now
[9:42] Tor Karlsvalt: far more than necessary
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: they take in too much money
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: they pay themselves
[9:42] Rose Springvale: then you need to work on budgets. but that is NOT the issue here
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it seems to me that anyone who read the Transcripts of the RA meetings related to budget... would be lead to believe that AA was in financial difficulty
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: This is something that can be changed, ranma
[9:42] Pip Torok: oh dear .... Ranma!
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but I have heard to the contrary also
[9:42] Ranma Tardis: it is the issue Rose
[9:42] Sonja Strom: In what sense has AA land management been subject to CDS jurisdiction?
[9:42] Mikelo Serevi: I think the idea was to use it to expand, if I remember correctly
[9:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the truth is that there needs to be some clarity on that matter
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: we won't know how healthy AAs finances are until a year is up
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and some qualification and testing of the figures
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: sudane has been quite clear about that
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: what ches on rose's leg over what CDS has or hS not done w it's power over CDS?
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: otherwise that issue can't be put to bed
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: some of the projections give some cause for concern
[9:43] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the agreement states that it is Sonja.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: Jamie, can you give a couple of specific examples?
[9:43] Patroklus Murakami: but nohting we can't handle together
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: sure- of what?
[9:43] Ranma Tardis: there is no oversight on Sundane
[9:43] Danton Sideways: holy cow the chat is going too fast to follow
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but the conversations about budget and the procrastination over the formulation of the budget
[9:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and the pointy finger that occurred at one RA meeting
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: try in on an iPhone Danton
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: as a real civil servant everything I do is subject to aduit
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that made people think that AA wasn't pulling it's weight
[9:44] Rose Springvale: wait a minute
[9:44] Sonja Strom: Of AA land management having been subject to CDS jusisdiction for over a year now.
[9:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well that's bound to rather upset the apple cart on any merger
[9:44] Rose Springvale: 1) this is not a time to pick on sudane
[9:44] Rose Springvale: we are here to talk about CDS and AA i thought
[9:44] Ranma Tardis: as a political she is not inmune
[9:44] Rose Springvale: lets stay on topic please?
[9:44] Mikelo Serevi: the merger, yes
[9:45] Ranma Tardis: the question is do we want European socialism
[9:45] Rose Springvale: CDS has had estate managers and been given all the power i have to give since the merger began
[9:45] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA's managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government.
[9:45] Patroklus Murakami: yes to european socialism! it's fab
[9:45] Rose Springvale: cds gets reports of every land transaction and has the power to make them
[9:45] Sylvia Tinkel: sighs at "european socialism"
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: ok, answering Sonja; I told rose (as AA EO) what to do with rent etc. until theend of my term... and now you could have. assuming you two are communicating
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Rose, CDS estate managers have had power on AA land?
[9:45] Pip Torok: my feelings are that when CDS have and like RA meetings and that AA have and like "Town Hall" then we're BOTH happy
[9:46] Rose Springvale: CDS has estate managers that do, yes
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: hmmmm
[9:46] Sonja Strom: who?
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja, i posted that part of the merer agreement in chat
[9:46] Rose Springvale: jamie, sudane, moon, i, satir,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:46] Rose Springvale: i think more, but i'd have to go look
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: I agree with pip there, there are more happy people than trouble- stirrers
[9:46] Mikelo Serevi: I just feel like the merger has caused more trouble than it's worth
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Thanks for answering my question.
[9:46] Pip Torok: AH!! someone who agrees !! ))
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: but (meaningful look) the trouble stirrers are louder
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: sighs, because someone does not agree with the FIC does not make them a "troublemaker"
[9:47] Pip Torok: (arent they always!:)
[9:47] Rose Springvale: are there other specific questins?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: wasntvthinking of you
[9:47] Pip Torok: depends on def of "does not agree"
[9:47] Ranma Tardis: what you are saying sounds to me like "shut up"
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: I have one rose
[9:47] Keila Forager: Too much trouble , so just give up...that's very adult..
[9:48] Rose Springvale: yes Jamie?
[9:48] Jayme Mistwalker: ranma, are you here to discuss the merger?
[9:48] Jayme Mistwalker: or bash CDS?
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: Well, no one has mentioned who the throublemakers are
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: it's funny how ppl's tune has changed. we were told a few weeks ago that AA was up in arms, revolting even, at the thought of the merger
[9:48] Sylvia Tinkel: If the only benefits to the merger are social and cultural and we can have those ust by living side by side but differently, why merge at all?
[9:48] Ranma Tardis: how can a for profit and non profit merge?
[9:48] Arria Perreault: Ramna, can I explave you something? In european social-democrat states, the state finance many things like culture. In USA, the main cultural expenses are on private hands. I have found strange that it is the reverse in CDS and AA. In CDS we used to have few events paid by CDS and we have events paid by citizen. In AA, the events of the 11th terms were paid by the CDS
[9:48] Rose Springvale: who told you that Pat?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: rose, as AA EO, how
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: now, when ppl speak out against it, all is sweetness and light!
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: you did rose!
[9:48] Sylvia Tinkel: hi Delia
[9:48] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, it was my understanding that AA had concerns about the merger, fears of a takeover
[9:49] Delia Lake: hi everyone. still rezzing
[9:49] Lilith Ivory: Hi Delia
[9:49] Rose Springvale: we are here to discuss CDS i thought
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia
[9:49] Ranma Tardis: why is everything about money, in Caledon we get toughter just for the fun of it
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: we have had months of 'AA citizens are not happy, you must make concessions to them'
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: abolish factions
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: talk nicer
[9:49] Arria Perreault: so Ramna, the cultural policy of AA is closer to what you want to avoid and the CDS sims closer
[9:49] Patroklus Murakami: pay for events
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: Rose, as AA EO .. how much direction have you received from CDS govt since last election?
[9:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it was hardly that black and white
[9:49] Rose Springvale: none
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: but now, when some say that they have no more confidence in it, volte face
[9:50] Pip Torok: Ranma ... tier and events dont pay for themselves! ..
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: pretty hard to defy them, then, eh?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: as AA EO, no one has contacted me at all
[9:50] Ranma Tardis: I am a citizen of AA by choice, to learn about other cultures
[9:50] Rose Springvale: that's what i though
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: or even work with them?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: yep
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: what i'm hearing is that you dont like the result of the last election. seems to me that's the real underlying issue
[9:50] Patroklus Murakami: ppl are sore they lost last time
[9:50] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:50] Rose Springvale: pat
[9:50] StuiChicanne Darkstone: what was represented to the RA was that issues are not quite so simple as what could be assumed from face value facts
[9:50] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, could be, pat
[9:51] Rose Springvale: i am only one person
[9:51] Rose Springvale: i am a CDS citizen
[9:51] Keila Forager: OMG Pat, that is so childish..
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and that it refers a lot to the core mission of AA
[9:51] Pip Torok: if thats right, then those losers arent into democracy win or lose!
[9:51] Ranma Tardis: yes, I spent a year in Iraq getting shout at on a daily event, I meet a lot of nice people there though
[9:51] Sonja Strom: I have been in contact with Rose many, many times over this term.
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I've sensed what pat is saying myself
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask a question ?
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: everyone is so fond of answering
[9:51] Rose Springvale: and here to do what i can to answer your questions. if this is going to be a fistfight, i'd much rather go for a walk
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would like to ask one
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Rather than play fair, people are playing games, causing trouble
[9:51] Rose Springvale: not true sonja
[9:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I ask a question Patty ?
[9:51] Mikelo Serevi: Some of our RA meetings have beenn amlost impossible to run
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: *** Excuse me? NONE, Rose? CDS govt hS not contacted you on AA matters AT ALL for 4 months?
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: are we having a fistfight?
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: no one stopping u stui
[9:52] Sylvia Tinkel: this is way too unstructured for me, I don't think we are getting anywhere
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ok
[9:52] Sonja Strom: Rose, shall I forward our email exhanges to everyone here?
[9:52] Pip Torok: whats your question, Stui?
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: it takes fighters to fight
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: I think people have tried to contact rose, but she has not responded
[9:52] Rose Springvale: sonja, you will find two emails
[9:52] Sonja Strom: Many more than that,
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in one, you replied to my query about renting sacromonte
[9:52] Sonja Strom: and many IMs,
[9:52] Sylvia Tinkel:
[9:52] Ranma Tardis: I am a warrior but one that does not relish the fight
[9:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: my question is: What is the general understanding of the mission of AA ?
[9:52] Mikelo Serevi: For example, I know sonja has asked for figures
[9:52] Sonja Strom: and many exchanges in the CDS forum.
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in the other you told me" i didn't thingk you wanted a response."
[9:53] Sonja Strom: And many in meetings, like this one.
[9:53] Mikelo Serevi: ok, so we have contacted you
[9:53] Rose Springvale: i've not been to a Town Hall before
[9:53] Rose Springvale: and no contact regarding the merger at all.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: In one email I said that, that's true Rose...
[9:53] Rose Springvale: as estate owner
[9:53] Arria Perreault: everybody is invited in Town Hall
[9:53] Rose Springvale: i've never been told to repossess antyhing
[9:53] Jamie Palisades smiles. Rose and Sud
[9:53] Sonja Strom: because you were angry I had not given an answer you wanted, and I did not know you were asking me a question.
[9:53] Pip Torok: My answer to your question Stui is that AA is a beacon to the _principle_ of live-and-let-live in terms of differences between societies
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: a
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I thought you were making a statement.
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip gets a gold star
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I believe S you just leaned CDS had a responsibiltiy for AA land management.
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pip as you answered
[9:54] Sonja Strom: Then when I understood it was a question, I did answer.
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: ((sorry about the bad interface))
[9:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can you tell me how that might be seperate from the basis of much of CDS ?
[9:54] Rose Springvale: only part, and only to tell me to come pick up volleyball in LA, during the middle of ferria
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I never even asked you to do that Rose!
[9:55] Rose Springvale: and then you took it all to the forums
[9:55] Rose Springvale: oh sonja
[9:55] Rose Springvale: do you want me to copy the exchanges?