Anna Toussaint: let's begin
Anna Toussaint: are there any additions, etc, to the agenda?
Anna Toussaint: it is in the box
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Shep Titian: No not this time
Anna Toussaint: ok
Shep Titian: Altoug I do wond about votin percentages
Shep Titian: But I have'nt prepared anything
Anna Toussaint: what do you mean?
Shep Titian: Oh hell
Shep Titian: please forgive my keyboard .. it hates damp weather
Anna Toussaint: you can speak to it in new business, if you like ...
Pip Torok: 
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: Beatan, I take it you will speak to your proposals?
Shep Titian: Well I think we had a recent vote where the percentage was'nt met despite two out of three of us saying aye
Anna Toussaint: you mean here in the RA?
Shep Titian: Yes
Shep Titian: It needs to be per RA not a percentage
Anna Toussaint: ok, lets talk about it in New business
Shep Titian: ok
Anna Toussaint: I take it Beathan will speak to his proposals, and I declare that 7-day voting is in effect, unless Rosie shows up
Beathan Vale: ye
Anna Toussaint: any citizen concerns?
Anna Toussaint: RA concerns?
Patroklus Murakami: none
Anna Toussaint: By the way, Trebor told me yesterday he would not be here
Anna Toussaint: thus we will have no executive report
Pip Torok: he's trying to get in from his iphne
Anna Toussaint: oh
Pip Torok: ive tp him a couple of times
Anna Toussaint: ah, well he told me he wouldn't be giving a report
Anna Toussaint: so, we'll see
Pip Torok: will keep sending em if no joy
Anna Toussaint: if there is no old business, we'll move on to Beathan's concerns
Anna Toussaint: Beathan?
Beathan Vale: Rosie has done a good job of quickly developing a consensus on expansion -- we have an expressed majority of citizens in favor of expansion and a plurality in favor of the NFS theme
Beathan Vale: I think that is enough for the RA to take over the expansion process and to move to the guided design phase.
Shep Titian: That is assuming that those who did'nt vote .. don't mind .. sorry devil's advocate
Beathan Vale: There has been a proposal (on the forums) to wait for a process under which the CDS scrutinizes and revisions itself. while such processes can be important and useful, I don't think that the process should be linked to or prior to the expansion
Beathan Vale: Therefore, I have proposed legislation that would move to the next stage.
Beathan Vale: I would also offer a second proposal thanking Rosie for her efforts and recognizing those efforts, as Rosie's quick work, especially her survey, have brought us to this point
Beathan Vale: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you, beathan
Anna Toussaint: are those three items in the agenda your motions?
Beathan Vale: the expansion plan is; the recognition can be my motion -- as it is not legislation as such
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Beathan Vale: motion to follow passage of the legislation
Anna Toussaint: let us, save that until the legislation is passes
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: pat?
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, are you saying we should use the 'in-theme expansion act'? it would seem to be most appropriate. let me find the link
Shep Titian: You feel we can move to the next phaze without getting citizens claiming l;ack of imput?
Patroklus Murakami: http://portal.slcds.info/?qa_faqs=nl-8- ... ansion-act
Anna Toussaint: first of all, is there a second?
Patroklus Murakami: second
Anna Toussaint: ok
Beathan Vale: Pat -- yes, that can be the basiis of authority
Anna Toussaint: \open for discussion
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Beathan Vale: although I am concerned about the mix of uses
Anna Toussaint: shep had a question ...
Shep Titian: I'm oonly concerned about any backlash
Anna Toussaint: well,. to that I would say that there was a survey ...
Patroklus Murakami: who do we think that may come from? there has been quite a bit of consultation already
Shep Titian: There are those will say they had no imput
Patroklus Murakami: and i don't see anyone here to raise objections (unless pip is our silent agitator!)
Beathan Vale: and I would add to that that Rosie wanted to proceed deliberately to take such people into greater account, but big bad Beathan rocked the boat again -- BOO BEATHAN! 
Shep Titian: lol
Pip Torok: no .. my silence says the right volumes
Anna Toussaint: we hate beathan ... oops
Shep Titian: Then on you head be it
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Anna Toussaint: I have a question ...
Patroklus Murakami: i think that kicking off the process is not the same as shelling out the cash
Anna Toussaint: I agree pat
Patroklus Murakami: we could begn the preparation phase and there'll be lots of opporutunity to get involved
Anna Toussaint: is it your conception that the RA will act as the guiding committee, hire the builder, oversee the terraforming, etc?
Anna Toussaint: question to Beathan ...
Shep Titian: There will be calls for referendum
Beathan Vale: No -- we just supervise the design contest on what the sim concept will be - -and then the New Guild will take over (or if not the nww guild, we can put the build out to public bid)
Patroklus Murakami: is the new guild active any more? i'm a bit out of touch
Shep Titian: Nope
Anna Toussaint: actually, I had thought the commission chaired by rosie would have that role
Beathan Vale: I thnk that the survey was already an informal referendum
Shep Titian: Noew guild
Anna Toussaint: or a commission of RA, not necessarily that one
Anna Toussaint: the RA can certainly oversee the process in some capacity
Beathan Vale: My proposal is for design; it is intended to reserve purchase funds (not spend them) and to settle on sim design, but purchase and building are the enext phases not yet authorized and, I think, the RA could pull the plug before we reach them if doing so seems right
Patroklus Murakami: and the exec will need to be brought in too. to assess marketability etc
Shep Titian: I thought the desire was to mirror NFS?
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with that way forward beathan
Anna Toussaint: I agree, Beathan
Anna Toussaint: well, the design competition will decide a lot of what's going to be there, shep
[ssb] Currency Converter 1.03: Type the value to be converted followed by the currency symbol and a question mark into chat. Example: 500L$?
Patroklus Murakami: i would like to see NFS extended. but there are lots of ways in which that could be done! i'm excited to see what ppl come up with
Anna Toussaint: that will be another place for public input
Beathan Vale: Shep -- that is one proposal, there are also some use-specific in theme expansion ideas
Shep Titian: Yes and I think a university is a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: should we set some guidelines for the contest? in line with the expansion act? let me cut and paste the relevant bits
Pip Torok: raises hand
Anna Toussaint: one thing, Beathan, is that we might make the time-line a bit more specific in the bill
Anna Toussaint: Pip?
Patroklus Murakami: broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.
Anna Toussaint: do we have time to do all that before the 17th?
Pip Torok: may i caution the choice of a univ? .. this will entail strong committment to the speciality .. and also continuation ...
Patroklus Murakami: i would suggest giving people more time
Anna Toussaint: I think a university is one proposal, pip
Pip Torok: after all a univ is like a democracy ie .. it is NOT roleplay .. done
Beathan Vale: I would accept more time as a friendly amendment provided it not push things too far out
Patroklus Murakami: give people a month instead of two weeks?
Beathan Vale: Pip -- you are right (although it can also be rped)
Beathan Vale: Pat -- that is fine
Shep Titian: No I know that .. but it can teach inworld things as well as traditional uses
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: march 31st then?
Patroklus Murakami: i would not want to make the university an essential part of any proposal. fine if some ppl come up with that but others might have other ideas
Anna Toussaint: Pat, will you make sure that it gets in the transcript correctly?
Patroklus Murakami: yes sure
Pip Torok: with respect, prospecive students wd wish to know whether their univ is rp or no .. they do have an interest!
Beathan Vale: The University proposal should not be prejudged -- favorably or unfavorably, but only considered in its competitive context -- but I am looking at our sims and looking for new uses and new communities we can serve and therefore expand our usefulness and community
Shep Titian: I think we need to be careful any addition compliments what we have now
Anna Toussaint: they do, but it seems premature now
Beathan Vale: Pip -- I see it as both; I would approach some currently homeless SL discussion and study groups to see if they want to meet here, etc.
Anna Toussaint: lets keep discussion of the university to a separate time
Beathan Vale: Anna -- I agree
Anna Toussaint: there is a motion on the floor
Pip Torok: i agree to anna and to beathan
Anna Toussaint: I would question whether the time-line is specific enough ... I worry that our executive will jump the gun and buy a sim
Beathan Vale: So -- change the deadline to April Fools day?
Anna Toussaint: before the process outlined by beathan plays out
Shep Titian: ou know they are . pardon me ... gagging for it
Beathan Vale: The proposal is to set aside the funds not to spend them
Anna Toussaint: I know
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps, instead of part 1 of beathan's motion, we should say "The RA is beginning the planning phase for a new sim"?
Anna Toussaint: if you think that's specific enough ...
Beathan Vale: We can clarify that by adding ("but shall not purchase the sim until directed by the RA")
Anna Toussaint: good
Shep Titian: We are back peddling now
Anna Toussaint: let us add that ...
Beathan Vale: Shep -- maybe, but I think the momentum is still forward
Anna Toussaint: no, we're just making it clear that we don't want the sim purchased until we say welre ready
Anna Toussaint: this quiets many of my fears of economics
Shep Titian: Then say we'll buy it
Anna Toussaint: we do, down in step 3
Shep Titian: I men R not exec
Shep Titian: Grrrr
Beathan Vale: Yes -- but only after RA approves a plan
Anna Toussaint: oh
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: we should only buy the sim when we have a good design and we have done some market research so we know it will be filled
Shep Titian: sorry I have to beat this thing
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: agreed
Pip Torok agrees with Pat
Shep Titian: O I agree
Shep Titian: What market research Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: and sim purchase has historicaly been for the exec to carry out - they have the purse strings
Patroklus Murakami: we did market research before opeining other sims
Patroklus Murakami: we checked to see who would be interested in buying plots
Anna Toussaint: who conducted that, Pat?
Shep Titian: Such as . 'who would live on a sim like this? @ lol
Patroklus Murakami: i don't recall. could have been the guild or maybe an ad hoc cttee
Patroklus Murakami: hehe
Pip Torok: i think it was Moon Adamant ...
Anna Toussaint: ok ...
Anna Toussaint: so, we have added that sentence outlined by Beathan to point number 3?
Patroklus Murakami: i think we even did pre-sales i.e. took deposits for some plots before the sim was purchased an built
Shep Titian: ok
Beathan Vale: I think the phrase should be in point 1 -- set aside funds but don't spend them
Patroklus Murakami: yes. i've updated the motion with the amendments so far
Anna Toussaint: ok
Pip Torok: we definitely did in the case of LA ...
Anna Toussaint: are we ready to vote?
Patroklus Murakami: clarifying that purchse takes place later. and that 31 march is the deadline
Anna Toussaint: good
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, say "aye"
Patroklus Murakami: i'll cut and paste the whole thing for the record
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: 1. The Executive shall set aside funds to purchase a new
sim but shall not purchase the sim until directed by the RA.
2. The New Sim shall be Bavarian-themed, as is
Neufreistadt. There shall be a design competition for
specific Sim design. Citizens who wish to submit a plan
shall submit a plan to the RA. Such plans shall
be submitted by March 31, 2012,
3. The RA shall then consider the plans and vote on them.
The plan that receives the most support shall be
implemented by the Executive, who shall purchase a
Sim and coordinate with the New Guild for that purpose.
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Anna Toussaint: and the chair votes aye as well
Shep Titian: That does give us one tiny problem .. we don't have a new guild
Patroklus Murakami: hurrah!
Anna Toussaint: we are under 7-day rules, but the motion has carried
Anna Toussaint: now
Pip Torok claps politely
Anna Toussaint: onto Beathan's resolution
Patroklus Murakami: this might be the stimulus needed to get it back up and running
Beathan Vale: motion to commend Rosie for her efforts in this process
Anna Toussaint: we can try
Patroklus Murakami is *such* and optimist!
Patroklus Murakami: second
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: all in favor? say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes "aye"
Anna Toussaint: motion carried
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: Shep? you wanted to talk about voting?
Shep Titian: Yes
Shep Titian: I think it should be changed to using number of persons and not a percentage
Anna Toussaint: for carrying a motion?
Patroklus Murakami: just for constitutional amendments shep? or for all motions?
Shep Titian: We had a vote not passed when we had aquorum of three and two voted aye .. but we did'nt reach majority
Shep Titian: All
Anna Toussaint: but, they voted in 7-day, didn't they?
Shep Titian: If a majority of persons say aye it should be carried
Shep Titian: No it was denied
Patroklus Murakami: with our current RA size, we need 3 out 5 votes for most bills and motions. and 4 out of 5 for constitutional amendments
Anna Toussaint: yes, but they voted and were counted
Shep Titian: I did say I had'nt done prep
Beathan Vale: shep -- are you asking to abolish the 7 day voting and allow votes only by members present in an RA with a quorum?
Pip Torok wonders which motion this was ...
Anna Toussaint: it was denied because a majority voted against it, if I remember
Shep Titian: but I still think its crazy
Beathan Vale: We implemented 7 day voting, as I recall, because we had some quorum problems in the past
Anna Toussaint: yes
Shep Titian: I'll have to search back and find the point
Anna Toussaint: it was Beathan's, wasn't it?
Patroklus Murakami: but if 2/3 vote yes in the meeting, but 3/5 vote no overall it should fall shoudln't it?
Anna Toussaint: and pat and rosie were absent
Shep Titian: I do recall it was not passed without it being said lets wait for 7 day
Beathan Vale: If it was that one -- Pat had already indicated his vote on the forums; I think Rosie did as well
Anna Toussaint: could be ...
Shep Titian: No Pat was he
Beathan Vale: Or was it Pat's election amendment -- which got 3 of 5 votes bbut failed
Anna Toussaint: yeah, I thinkn it went down that way, Beathan
Shep Titian: Here
Shep Titian: Thats probably the one
Shep Titian: thank you
Anna Toussaint: I think it was yours, Beathan
Beathan Vale: I voted 7 days on that -- I think Rosie did too
Anna Toussaint: yeah
Shep Titian: Hmmmm
Anna Toussaint: the 7-day rule was put into place becaue
Anna Toussaint: there are times when folks just can't make it in
Anna Toussaint: due to RL stuff
Shep Titian: Pat also questioned why it was'nt passed
Anna Toussaint: it was an amendment
Shep Titian: He commented that his math was off that day
Patroklus Murakami: if this is my constitutional amendment i understand why it didn't pass
Anna Toussaint: it required 4 votes
Anna Toussaint: thats why
Anna Toussaint: yes, Pat
Patroklus Murakami: i got my maths wrong on the day 
Patroklus Murakami: it needed four votes and, i didnt' get them
Beathan Vale: I would like to consider changing the Constitutional Amendment process -- say 60% ofRA plus a referendum rather than 2/3
Shep Titian: Ok
Anna Toussaint: what would the advantage to that be, Beathan?
Shep Titian: I just think that there are votes where it needs a percentage to pass is plain silly if its not a whole person
Beathan Vale: well -- 2/3 always produces strange maths; and adding a referendum would both enable direct voting through referendum but also limit it to formational issues rather than day-to-day legislation
Pip Torok fears a weakening of Constitutional Amendments
Anna Toussaint: but, shep, it is a whole person
Anna Toussaint: it requires 4 now
Anna Toussaint: we round up
Patroklus Murakami: well, i was disappointed my proposal didn't pass but it's not a bad thing that we have a high bar for constitutional amendments
Beathan Vale: Besides, there might be a constitutional amendment I am only 60% for -- so I could vote 60% in favor and get to 2/3
Pip Torok strongly agrees
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Shep Titian: Lol
Shep Titian: Ok give up
Anna Toussaint: why don't you take that to the forum, Beathan, and get some feedback?
Pip Torok strongly agrees with Pat, he emphasises
Anna Toussaint: I have to think about it for awile ...
Anna Toussaint: awhile
Beathan Vale: yeah -- it was an idea I floated in the election, too -- and I think JosJos expressed support but no one else said much
Patroklus Murakami: if we were to fix the size of the RA, instead of having it change every tme. i'd be prepared to think about whether this would make sense
Shep Titian: So basically we never need a quorum
Anna Toussaint: not if 7-day rules are i place, Shep
Beathan Vale: Shep -- requiring a quorum without allowing a 7 day vote caused serious problems in the past
Shep Titian: Given that a quorum is the number of people that can take a vote
Pip Torok remembers scandalous mis-use of a lax quorum-regime
Beathan Vale: Yes -- if 2 are absent, we can't take up Con amendment
Shep Titian: Yes but what I'm saying is .. we don't need a quorum as all can be done on the forum
Patroklus Murakami: well, any change requires 4 of us to agree so.... could be difficult!
Anna Toussaint: there is still merit in direct debate, Shep
Anna Toussaint: at least to me ...
Shep Titian: Of course there is .. there should be more IMO
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any commission reports?
Patroklus Murakami: i can give one briefly
Anna Toussaint: k
Patroklus Murakami: i've called a second meeting of the citizenship transparency commission for tomorrow
Shep Titian: And of course when all can be done whether people turn up or not .. then it makes it less important maybe
Patroklus Murakami: noon SLT here in the praetorium
Anna Toussaint: you have a point, Shep
Patroklus Murakami: sudane has posted soem helpful thoughts on how to make the ideas we talked about in the first meeting work in practice
Shep Titian: Yes and if I have'nt had my PC wrested from me I'll be there
Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... =30#p19511
