Transcript of Discussion, 1-5-15 -- Part II, Procedures

[Leslie Allandale]

[2015/01/05 11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Gaius.
[2015/01/05 11:14] Rosie Gray: waves at Gaius
[2015/01/05 11:14] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Hi ㋡
[2015/01/05 11:14] Leslie Allandale: welcome Gaius
[2015/01/05 11:15] Rosie Gray: I feel that we can't move on with the building inspections until our parameters are resolved
[2015/01/05 11:15] Leslie Allandale: Exactly
[2015/01/05 11:16] Swan Chair: Saved
[2015/01/05 11:16] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): In what way has this commission overstepped it's lines, according to the Chancellor?
[2015/01/05 11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I think we are at an impasse until Pat returns to get his views.
[2015/01/05 11:16] Leslie Allandale: I feel that the covenants will clarify some of the issue, but we still need to establish procedures
[2015/01/05 11:17] Leslie Allandale: Pat is adamant that the commission is "only" advisory.
[2015/01/05 11:17] Rosie Gray: Pat feels that nobody should be talking to people about covenant infractions but himself
[2015/01/05 11:17] Rosie Gray: or advising about covenants
[2015/01/05 11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Well that is rather hard on himself if we get lots of new builds in CDS.
[2015/01/05 11:18] Leslie Allandale: Exactly
[2015/01/05 11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: at the moment things are relatively stable.
[2015/01/05 11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: But it would be too much work if there was a lot of building.
[2015/01/05 11:18] Leslie Allandale: But Vic's build is sitting there in obvious violation
[2015/01/05 11:18] Widget Whiteberry: I think the basic issue is advisory vs regulatory ... and I've found a lot of what's been said ... unclear.
[2015/01/05 11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: imo
[2015/01/05 11:19] Widget Whiteberry: Could you use Vic's build as a test of the relationship between the LUC and the Exec? Pat returns in 3 days ...
[2015/01/05 11:19] Leslie Allandale: If the Commission is to be responsible for the graphical representation of CDS, and the Chancellor is responsible for day to day management, we need to be clear on who does what.
[2015/01/05 11:20] Leslie Allandale: I think the definitions are moot
[2015/01/05 11:21] Leslie Allandale: Commission advises Chancellor that build is non conforming; Chancellor acts
[2015/01/05 11:21] Leslie Allandale: that is okay with me
[2015/01/05 11:21] Widget Whiteberry: is it ok with Pat?
[2015/01/05 11:21] Rosie Gray: what if the commission and the Chancellor don't agree on this?
[2015/01/05 11:21] Catz Jewell Lane (catz.jewell): is offline.
[2015/01/05 11:22] Rosie Gray: on something being conforming, or non-conforming
[2015/01/05 11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Still I am fine with the Chancellor making the final call. If he is smart he would rely on commissioners/inspectors etc. It would just be easier.
[2015/01/05 11:22] Leslie Allandale: But as it is there is no paper trail, so a build could be "approved" by the chancelllor by default, and sit there as an eyesore, who can complain?
[2015/01/05 11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I think he worries that some inspectors are too heavy handed.
[2015/01/05 11:22] Leslie Allandale: Where is it written that the chancellor is smart
[2015/01/05 11:22] Leslie Allandale: And he isn't heavy handed?
[2015/01/05 11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2015/01/05 11:23] Rosie Gray: at some point, you have to trust the people who are doing the job
[2015/01/05 11:23] Rosie Gray: as long as they are well appointed
[2015/01/05 11:23] Rosie Gray: this is true in RL as well
[2015/01/05 11:23] Leslie Allandale: But he wasn't appointed, or elected, he vounteered
[2015/01/05 11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: all true.
[2015/01/05 11:23] Rosie Gray: I'm talking about the inspectors now
[2015/01/05 11:24] Callipygian Christensen: /me coughs
[2015/01/05 11:24] Leslie Allandale: So, can we get the RA to give us guidance in this matter?
[2015/01/05 11:25] Callipygian Christensen: I am reading comments about trusting those who have the job - and that applies to the current Chacncellor and RA also..they all 'volunteered'..and all have a mandate, since no one else out of 60 or so qualified citizens stepped up and ran against them.
[2015/01/05 11:25] Rosie Gray: I agree on that ㋡
[2015/01/05 11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: nods at callie.
[2015/01/05 11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: That mandate argument is just a bugaboo.
[2015/01/05 11:26] Leslie Allandale: But it i a matter of accountability
[2015/01/05 11:26] Rosie Gray: whatever the procedures are should be applicable to whomever the Chancellor and Inspectors and RA are
[2015/01/05 11:27] Callipygian Christensen: The LUC is appointed, and currently appointed as an advisory committee - so my personal understanding would be that the Chanellor has a final say - but that doesnt preclude working *wth* the Exec (whomever it may be) to get things inspected and changed or whatever so no Chancellor 'veto' should ever be needed?
[2015/01/05 11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: nods
[2015/01/05 11:28] Leslie Allandale: However, the Chancellor is upset with us trying to formulate a procedure for doing that, and is not making any suggestions of his own
[2015/01/05 11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree, the Chancellor is elected and should have a major role as to how his administration works. If we don't like it, we throw the bum out. That said, this place can be too much for one person to do all if there is lots of building and movement. It seems bad policy to not have a role for inspectors or commission members.
[2015/01/05 11:29] Leslie Allandale: TY Tor.
[2015/01/05 11:30] Rosie Gray: I think I can amend these draft procedures to be conciliatory to the Chancellor's concerns. It is just a draft after all.
[2015/01/05 11:30] Leslie Allandale: It seems that the Chancellor would like the Commission just sit on its hands and be available for the RA or him, when called upon
[2015/01/05 11:30] Leslie Allandale: Kind of like kids at the dinner table
[2015/01/05 11:31] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): I disagree.
[2015/01/05 11:31] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): It appears that this commission has plenty of things to do.
[2015/01/05 11:31] Callipygian Christensen: I think on that note, I'll head out to get some things done. Enjoy the day everyone.
[2015/01/05 11:32] Rosie Gray: bye Calli
[2015/01/05 11:32] Leslie Allandale: ty Calli
[2015/01/05 11:32] Leslie Allandale: have a good day
[2015/01/05 11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree to Felicia. I think at the moment, the new sim is paramount and then the covenants themselves.
[2015/01/05 11:32] Timo Gufler: bye Calli
[2015/01/05 11:32] Leslie Allandale: The second issue is transparency
[2015/01/05 11:33] Rosie Gray: I disagree, because until we have our mandate settled, it is difficult to know how much we can do
[2015/01/05 11:33] Rosie Gray: for instance, when talking about the new sim
[2015/01/05 11:33] Rosie Gray: when it comes to the builds for it... who assigns the builders for the public parts?
[2015/01/05 11:33] Tor Karlsvalt: And I also worry that we will not always have enough people to man these commissions and the RA.
[2015/01/05 11:33] Rosie Gray: once we get past the acceptance of a design, there is a gap
[2015/01/05 11:34] Rosie Gray: on procedure
[2015/01/05 11:34] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Not with the law we just voted on a few days ago, is there?
[2015/01/05 11:34] Timo Gufler: all the commissions require quite much time
[2015/01/05 11:34] Rosie Gray: which law, Gaius?
[2015/01/05 11:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Transparency is important and too often that is a bugaboo thrown out to discredit any initiative as if it is all evil and some anti democratic conspiracy.
[2015/01/05 11:34] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Coop's law.
[2015/01/05 11:34] Rosie Gray: no that doesn't answer the question
[2015/01/05 11:35] Rosie Gray: and also, it's not applicable to NFS W and NFS E
[2015/01/05 11:35] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): It doesn't answer the question of procedure?
[2015/01/05 11:35] Rosie Gray: no it doesn't
[2015/01/05 11:35] Rosie Gray: have a look
[2015/01/05 11:35] Rosie Gray: does anyone have a link to it?
[2015/01/05 11:36] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): It's in the box
[2015/01/05 11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: it is on the botom of the transcript
[2015/01/05 11:36] Second Life: Object owned by secondlife:///app/agent/60b888be-68f2-4 ... d974/about gave you 'Agenda for LUC 2' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/8/148/23 ).
[2015/01/05 11:36] Leslie Allandale: it says that " we work together" what ever that means
[2015/01/05 11:36] Rosie Gray: yes, there you go
[2015/01/05 11:36] Rosie Gray: so what does that mean?
[2015/01/05 11:36] Second Life: Object owned by secondlife:///app/agent/60b888be-68f2-4 ... d974/about gave you 'Law Review-Omnibus New Region Expansion Act' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/8/148/23 ).
[2015/01/05 11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: work together = make a decision and get the job done.
[2015/01/05 11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2015/01/05 11:37] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): lol
[2015/01/05 11:37] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): You don't need an English degree to figure out that "working together" means you coordinate your efforts.
[2015/01/05 11:37] Rosie Gray: there is nothing specific
[2015/01/05 11:37] Leslie Allandale: I have an english degree, and don't know what it means
[2015/01/05 11:38] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I am sure that the LUC can find out how to improvise working with the Executive.
[2015/01/05 11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: First the principal parties have to agree on the goal and realize that each will not be totally happy about particulars.
[2015/01/05 11:38] Rosie Gray: it says the Executive will consult with the LUC
[2015/01/05 11:38] Rosie Gray: but that doesn't mean a lot when it comes to specific work
[2015/01/05 11:38] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): What article is in question here?
[2015/01/05 11:39] Widget Whiteberry: I've a suggestion
[2015/01/05 11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Well it helps to have a Chancellor who is not a builder. So the details of what works and looks good should be left to those who are good at that.
[2015/01/05 11:39] Leslie Allandale: should?
[2015/01/05 11:39] Leslie Allandale: we need a procedure
[2015/01/05 11:40] Leslie Allandale: plan goes to commission, commission approves, sends to chancellor, chancellor expedites
[2015/01/05 11:40] Rosie Gray: I guess the piece I missed initially was Phase I, k.
[2015/01/05 11:40] Widget Whiteberry: /me coughs
[2015/01/05 11:40] Leslie Allandale: Widget
[2015/01/05 11:40] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): What article, Rosie?
[2015/01/05 11:40] Widget Whiteberry: Use Vic's build as a test of the LUC working in advisory capacity to the Chancellor.
[2015/01/05 11:40] Rosie Gray: the Omnibus act
[2015/01/05 11:40] Rosie Gray: Phase I, k.
[2015/01/05 11:40] Widget Whiteberry: learn something from it
[2015/01/05 11:40] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): There's a number missing.
[2015/01/05 11:41] Rosie Gray: well there's only one k under Phase I
[2015/01/05 11:41] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Ah... I, 2k
[2015/01/05 11:42] Rosie Gray: I didn't see that before... so that answers my question about procedure
[2015/01/05 11:42] Rosie Gray: as the LUC would make proposals to the Chancellor as to whom does the work
[2015/01/05 11:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Well, can you develop a procedure and then leave it at the Chancellor's doorstep. Eventually RA would have sort it out if the impasse resulted in no action regarding the new sim or covenants. And perhaps one could show how not having this procedure in place threatens the Sim project.
[2015/01/05 11:43] Rosie Gray: I think I answered my own question Tor
[2015/01/05 11:43] Tor Karlsvalt: If the Sim Project is at risk then we need to resolve this quickly.
[2015/01/05 11:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Even though this law isn't supposed to be used for the two new sims (I suspect because RG didn't want to violate the work you all were doing), you can still use it as a procedure.
[2015/01/05 11:43] Rosie Gray: yes
[2015/01/05 11:43] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): It just comes into force after the two sims are done. ㋡
[2015/01/05 11:43] Rosie Gray: I agree... and I like his planning
[2015/01/05 11:44] Tor Karlsvalt: good point gaiius. Consider it a template
[2015/01/05 11:44] Rosie Gray: what do you think, Les?
[2015/01/05 11:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Actually would bolster the LUCs request for a procedure.
[2015/01/05 11:45] Leslie Allandale: I agree that we do the best we can, and develop some calluses
I am not sure we will escape criticism, but that comes with the territory
so two things Get the design proposals And get a new covenant that will help everyone Anything else?
[2015/01/05 11:47] Leslie Allandale: Oh, Vic's build
[2015/01/05 11:47] Leslie Allandale: We should make a comment on that.
[2015/01/05 11:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Well one thing I don't want to see is the sim project delayed or scuttled over this.
[2015/01/05 11:47] Widget Whiteberry: /me looks up
[2015/01/05 11:48] Leslie Allandale: No, we are moving ahead, by all means, tor
[2015/01/05 11:48] Rosie Gray: how long has Vic's build been there? If it is more than 15 days then it's too late to ask for changes
[2015/01/05 11:48] Leslie Allandale: No
[2015/01/05 11:49] Widget Whiteberry: It's been more that 15 days... Ceasar was Chancellor
[2015/01/05 11:49] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2015/01/05 11:49] Leslie Allandale: I think the Commission can advise for any changes it sees fit
[2015/01/05 11:49] Widget Whiteberry: Vic intended it as a challenge to Ceasar. (He told me)
[2015/01/05 11:49] Leslie Allandale: we are advisory
[2015/01/05 11:50] Leslie Allandale: we can always advise
[2015/01/05 11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Shoot I think any citizen could advise the Chancellor as to what changes should be made.
[2015/01/05 11:50] Rosie Gray: that makes the LUC redundant then, Tor... but you are correct
[2015/01/05 11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I surly got more than my share of advice from some individuals.
[2015/01/05 11:50] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): lol
[2015/01/05 11:50] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2015/01/05 11:51] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2015/01/05 11:51] Leslie Allandale: According to our new thinking, there is nothing grandfathered
[2015/01/05 11:51] Rosie Gray: <-- is guilty
[2015/01/05 11:51] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Aye, Leslie.
[2015/01/05 11:51] Rosie Gray: that might be our thinking, but is is law?
[2015/01/05 11:51] Leslie Allandale: If it doesn't fit the zoning, it needs a variance to be legal
[2015/01/05 11:51] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): That mentality will cause heads to turn.
[2015/01/05 11:51] Leslie Allandale: It is the only fair way
[2015/01/05 11:52] Leslie Allandale: If Vic can do that there, why can't Widget do what she wants on her parcel?
[2015/01/05 11:52] Leslie Allandale: She could make a 20 story skyscraper and bribe the chancellor to turn his head
[2015/01/05 11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: You know I remember in Chicago, at least it used to be, that the City Council had to vote on zoning changes. Just saying.
[2015/01/05 11:53] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Because the law is the law? If you don't like it, get it changed.
[2015/01/05 11:53] Leslie Allandale: And then we have no recourse?
[2015/01/05 11:53] Rosie Gray: Tor that happens all the time in RL
[2015/01/05 11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: /me dreams of reclining on big rabbits.
[2015/01/05 11:53] Rosie Gray: everywhere
[2015/01/05 11:53] Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
[2015/01/05 11:53] Leslie Allandale: Changing the law is exactly what we are requesting
[2015/01/05 11:54] Rosie Gray: Les, if Widget made a 20 story skyscraper, then she would be clearly going against the covenants
[2015/01/05 11:54] Widget Whiteberry: hmm wait
[2015/01/05 11:54] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Say "advising," Leslie, it's more welcoming. ㋡
[2015/01/05 11:54] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): What about the Kirche? Isn't it too tall?
[2015/01/05 11:54] Rosie Gray: the public buildings are exempt, Felicia
[2015/01/05 11:54] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): oh.
[2015/01/05 11:54] Widget Whiteberry: if Vic built and then X resigned, do we have a loophole?
[2015/01/05 11:54] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I could only imagine 20m tall Kirche or Schloss...
[2015/01/05 11:54] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): /me shudders.
[2015/01/05 11:54] Rosie Gray: hehe
[2015/01/05 11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah, not too awe inspiring.
[2015/01/05 11:55] Rosie Gray: you know, since his build has essentially been accepted by the Chancellor of the day, I think it would be wrong to make him change it, even if we could.
[2015/01/05 11:55] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): "Welcome to our Castle made for vertically challenged people."
[2015/01/05 11:55] Rosie Gray: that's just my personal opinion
[2015/01/05 11:55] Widget Whiteberry: /me prefers giant bunnies to most buildings
[2015/01/05 11:55] Leslie Allandale: You need to wait till Pat goes on a two week vacation, widget, then we will build a Radio Hall
[2015/01/05 11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I kind of agree with you Rosie.
[2015/01/05 11:56] Widget Whiteberry: /me laughs
[2015/01/05 11:56] Leslie Allandale: in the image of a giant hare
[2015/01/05 11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2015/01/05 11:56] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): You guys missed your chance: he's been gone for 2 weeks!
[2015/01/05 11:56] Leslie Allandale: sighs
[2015/01/05 11:56] Leslie Allandale: And guess whose view it would ruin?
[2015/01/05 11:56] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Mine.
[2015/01/05 11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: And in case there a planes you better have a beacon on it.
[2015/01/05 11:57] Leslie Allandale: bingo
[2015/01/05 11:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I think the LUC can advise changes be made to a building. Nothing says that your advice is law.
[2015/01/05 11:57] Leslie Allandale: Can we re-set our meeting now?
[2015/01/05 11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods.
[2015/01/05 11:57] Leslie Allandale: Would next Monday work?
[2015/01/05 11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Really, if this build is so bad, can't we appeal to the builder?
[2015/01/05 11:58] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Certainly, private buildings horribly in breach of the covenant can be advised to be changed, per the definition of 'land use.'
[2015/01/05 11:58] Rosie Gray: Gaius, according to the Chancellor, he doesn't want the LUC to made suggestions to owners about their buildings
[2015/01/05 11:58] Rosie Gray: that's one of the critical issues here.
[2015/01/05 11:58] Rosie Gray: he doesn't want anyone to do that but himself
[2015/01/05 11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Well couldn't the LUC just advise the Chancellor. Let him take it or leave it.
[2015/01/05 11:58] Rosie Gray: something I think he would find an onerous job
[2015/01/05 11:59] Leslie Allandale: exactly, Rosie
[2015/01/05 11:59] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I don't think that's the entire case, Rosie. It's also an issue of incongruences with our legal tradition for both grandfathering in buildings and upholding the covenant.
[2015/01/05 11:59] Leslie Allandale: I am puzzled by that attitude
[2015/01/05 12:00] Leslie Allandale: We would appear to be a useful tool'
[2015/01/05 12:00] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Your job as a committee is to advise the Chancellor and the RA on land use issue. If the Chancellor doesn't want to be advised, then I think you could advise the builder himself...
[2015/01/05 12:00] Rosie Gray: as we have been speaking, I've made some suggestions on the Procedures for Inspection document that would hopefully be more acceptable to the Chancellor
[2015/01/05 12:01] Leslie Allandale: Super
[2015/01/05 12:02] Rosie Gray: Gaius, that is specifically the issue I am talking about. That the Chancellor does not want anyone but himself advising owners about their buildings
[2015/01/05 12:03] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I do worry tho that the poor land owner, perhaps not Vic who probably does push the envelope, will be caught between a commissioner telling him to do something and a chancellor who says what he is doing is ok.
[2015/01/05 12:03] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): But you can advise him and he can indirectly send your advice to the builders.
[2015/01/05 12:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I would avoid that scenario.
[2015/01/05 12:03] Rosie Gray: /me sighs
[2015/01/05 12:03] Leslie Allandale: As it is 12, I would like to adjourn, with the announcement that we will reconvene the meeting next Monday at 10:00
[2015/01/05 12:04] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Yes, that's true, Tor. In that case, don't tell the builder, but go to the Chancellor or the RA.
[2015/01/05 12:04] Rosie Gray: you know what... If I was building something and it wasn't in line with covenants and wouldn't be allowed, and nobody just told me, and I finished the build and was happy with it... and then someone came along and said no, it's against the covenant
[2015/01/05 12:04] Tor Karlsvalt: awe, this was fun. And I think useful.
[2015/01/05 12:04] Rosie Gray: then I would be pissed off... I'd say, why didn't you tell me when you saw what I was doing?
[2015/01/05 12:05] Leslie Allandale: Very, thank you all for your comments and support
[2015/01/05 12:05] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Because we don't see things sometimes until they're complete.
[2015/01/05 12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: so true Gaius.
[2015/01/05 12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The story of CDS.
[2015/01/05 12:05] Rosie Gray: but often we do
[2015/01/05 12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think 90 percent of what was ever done had good intentions.
[2015/01/05 12:05] Rosie Gray: well anyway
[2015/01/05 12:05] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Because people haven't had the time to critique things.
[2015/01/05 12:06] Leslie Allandale: Well, laws are, of necessity, arbitrary, but what do you have without them?
[2015/01/05 12:06] Rosie Gray: I think people have had good intentions too
[2015/01/05 12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks for all your work Commissioners.
[2015/01/05 12:06] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Vic's building might not abide by the 5m rule, but it's a relatively fine building.
[2015/01/05 12:06] Rosie Gray: it's a tricky business
[2015/01/05 12:06] Rosie Gray: yes I agree
[2015/01/05 12:06] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah I agree
[2015/01/05 12:06] Widget Whiteberry: Rosie, I agree with that last comment of yours
[2015/01/05 12:06] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Here here! This is not easy work. I've been involved with "zoning boards" and this is difficult.
[2015/01/05 12:07] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I'm not sure how tall it is either. I wish it would be a smidgeon shorter... you can walk onto the roof from the balcony of the museum!
[2015/01/05 12:07] Leslie Allandale: Vic's build violates the principle of a transition zone between urban and rural
[2015/01/05 12:07] Rosie Gray: and I don't think that asking him to change it now would be very good
[2015/01/05 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: and if the neighbors don't mind, you can go too far at times just inforcing the rules cuz they da rules.
[2015/01/05 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2015/01/05 12:07] Rosie Gray: yes that's true Tor
[2015/01/05 12:07] Leslie Allandale: Tor for Chancellor
[2015/01/05 12:07] Rosie Gray: perspective is so important ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:07] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Well, not necessarily, Leslie. The building itself is a villa rustica, if I recall correctly.
[2015/01/05 12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: /me sinks into the floor unnociteced
[2015/01/05 12:08] Widget Whiteberry: As a neighbor, it it really bothered me I'd derender
[2015/01/05 12:08] Leslie Allandale: There is hardly any open space, Gaius
[2015/01/05 12:08] Leslie Allandale: And two of the trees are cartoons
[2015/01/05 12:08] Leslie Allandale: as if any aren't
[2015/01/05 12:09] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Well, the open space is an issue.
[2015/01/05 12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Well Leslie your house for that spot was very nice.
[2015/01/05 12:09] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): It is possible to ask Vic to change it some.
[2015/01/05 12:09] Leslie Allandale: Ah, yes, Tor, it was excelllent
[2015/01/05 12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I liked looking at your garden.
[2015/01/05 12:09] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): The way it's built on a large terrace... the terrace can be shrunk some and some terraforming can be done.
[2015/01/05 12:09] Rosie Gray: /me notes that there are other cartoon trees around too
[2015/01/05 12:09] Leslie Allandale: Yes, we should have that conversation with him, but would the Chancellor approve?
[2015/01/05 12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: hmmmm
[2015/01/05 12:10] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Ach, sorry, terraforming not allowed in CN...
[2015/01/05 12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: sticky point.
[2015/01/05 12:10] Rosie Gray: I think he has to have that conversation, if it's to be
[2015/01/05 12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I would let the Chancellor do the talking.
[2015/01/05 12:10] Leslie Allandale: So, that makes for a lot of talking
[2015/01/05 12:10] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I wouldn't rush into that now.
[2015/01/05 12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: me neither.
[2015/01/05 12:10] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Ideally, you want the person who is most level headed, not the person who holds the reins.
[2015/01/05 12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: not over that build
[2015/01/05 12:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Esp. the person who can calm him down.
[2015/01/05 12:11] Leslie Allandale: As if we didn't have anything else to o
[2015/01/05 12:11] Leslie Allandale: do
[2015/01/05 12:11] Tor Karlsvalt: if it was the Tower of Pisa clocking in at about 60 meters yes
[2015/01/05 12:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Hah.
[2015/01/05 12:11] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Well, we know who built that, Tor... ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:11] Widget Whiteberry: just wondering about how this transcript will read to the Chancellor
[2015/01/05 12:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I think people have been level headed.
[2015/01/05 12:12] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Yes, but enough to navigate that high energy discussion?
[2015/01/05 12:12] Leslie Allandale: But we as the land use commission are responsible to the citizens for how their neighborhoods look We need to have some method for applying that mandate
[2015/01/05 12:12] Rosie Gray: who is going to post this transcript?
[2015/01/05 12:13] Leslie Allandale: this is not a meeting
[2015/01/05 12:13] Leslie Allandale: We had no quorum
[2015/01/05 12:13] Rosie Gray: oh... yeah I guess it's not
[2015/01/05 12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: gosh I just had deja vu
[2015/01/05 12:13] Leslie Allandale: what Tor?
[2015/01/05 12:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Hah.
[2015/01/05 12:13] Timo Gufler: ohh, this wasn't a meeting
[2015/01/05 12:13] Rosie Gray: we are inquorate
[2015/01/05 12:13] Leslie Allandale: No, but we got a huge amount done anyway
[2015/01/05 12:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Remember to write up the minute
[2015/01/05 12:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): *minutes
[2015/01/05 12:13] Maria Zarco (maria.zarco): is offline.
[2015/01/05 12:13] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Well, you should post it. For transparency.
[2015/01/05 12:13] Leslie Allandale: loll
[2015/01/05 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: oh it was Gaius' comment. I feel I had that in a dream,
[2015/01/05 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: minutes yikes
[2015/01/05 12:14] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): About the minutes?
[2015/01/05 12:14] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): That was Calli's comment originally... ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:14] Leslie Allandale: Can you post the chat, Rosie
[2015/01/05 12:14] Leslie Allandale: ?
[2015/01/05 12:14] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): The minutes just need to list the topics discussed.
[2015/01/05 12:14] Rosie Gray: /me hears some incessant giggling from somewhere
[2015/01/05 12:14] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Felicia's right, too. You should post the transcript.
[2015/01/05 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Well there were no voes.
[2015/01/05 12:14] Rosie Gray: yes I can
[2015/01/05 12:14] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Doesn't matter.
[2015/01/05 12:15] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): It's only proper. ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well it was a good discussion.
[2015/01/05 12:15] Leslie Allandale: We are happy to share the experience
[2015/01/05 12:15] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Otherwise people will accuse you of meeting in secret.
[2015/01/05 12:15] Rosie Gray: fgs
[2015/01/05 12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Felicia.
[2015/01/05 12:15] Leslie Allandale: Yes, we are trying to pull one over on the CDS's eyes
[2015/01/05 12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well they did send at least four notices.
[2015/01/05 12:15] Rosie Gray: it's hardly been secret since it was announced publically
[2015/01/05 12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I myself saw one on the forum and three in world.
[2015/01/05 12:16] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): When ever you have a meeting involving government officials, whether anything was decided or not, you need minutes and transcripts.
[2015/01/05 12:16] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Still, you should publish the transcript from when you were quorate.
[2015/01/05 12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: They never were quorate
[2015/01/05 12:16] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Or, if you never were (since I arrived late), it's still proper to publish them.
[2015/01/05 12:16] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Since you did decide things. ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Well three commissioners were absent.
[2015/01/05 12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: one resined and two didn't show.
[2015/01/05 12:17] Leslie Allandale: I, personally, enjoy the additional perspective provided by guests
[2015/01/05 12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Les.
[2015/01/05 12:17] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Plus, it would look better to Vic if he knew that his would a long time coming. ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:18] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Thanks.
[2015/01/05 12:18] Leslie Allandale: It wasn't the meeting, which will be resumed at our normal time next week
[2015/01/05 12:18] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Thank you, Les ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:18] Leslie Allandale: But we will be happy to post a copy of the discussion
[2015/01/05 12:18] Leslie Allandale: You will find it on the Commissions thread in the forum
[2015/01/05 12:19] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Well, thanks for letting me talk!
[2015/01/05 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Besides, you will do an end run on the transparency charge.
[2015/01/05 12:19] Rosie Gray: glad you came, Felicia!
[2015/01/05 12:19] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): Have a great day everyone!
[2015/01/05 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: see you Felicia
[2015/01/05 12:19] Leslie Allandale: Absolutely Felicia
[2015/01/05 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: have fun on the slopes
[2015/01/05 12:19] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): lol
[2015/01/05 12:19] Rosie Gray:
[2015/01/05 12:19] Felicia Fortune (feliciafortune): thanks!
[2015/01/05 12:20] Leslie Allandale: Sadly we didn't get the world's problems totally solved..
[2015/01/05 12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2015/01/05 12:20] Leslie Allandale: but, oh well
[2015/01/05 12:20] Rosie Gray: hehe
[2015/01/05 12:20] Rosie Gray: oh well!
[2015/01/05 12:20] Swan Chair: Goodbye!
[2015/01/05 12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: Actually I find good conversations with citizens refreshing lately.
[2015/01/05 12:21] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Speaking of the world's problems totally solved, I need to get mine done too!
[2015/01/05 12:21] Leslie Allandale: thank you especially, members of the RA, and Widget
[2015/01/05 12:21] Rosie Gray: Les, I cannot post to the Commissions thread for announcements, I don't think
[2015/01/05 12:21] Leslie Allandale: Give it to me, I will post
[2015/01/05 12:21] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Need to go decide if I'm taking a graduate student-level course next semester or not (!)
[2015/01/05 12:22] Rosie Gray: ok
[2015/01/05 12:22] Leslie Allandale: You should
[2015/01/05 12:22] Rosie Gray: bye Gaius
[2015/01/05 12:22] Rosie Gray: well I'll try and if I can't I'll send it to you
[2015/01/05 12:22] Leslie Allandale: kk.
[2015/01/05 12:22] Rosie Gray: well I have to go too
[2015/01/05 12:22] Rosie Gray: bye all!
[2015/01/05 12:22] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Bye Gaius. Do you need approval for that?
[2015/01/05 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Rosie
[2015/01/05 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: see you
[2015/01/05 12:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): I do, yes ㋡
[2015/01/05 12:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (guillaume.mistwalker): Bye all!