Is it the Socialism or Is it the Sims?

[Prokofy]

Forgive a rank outsider who is just popping in, but I have to ask: I see riotious and profound changes rocking this little experiment in "democratic socialism" (or maybe it's "social democracy"? ermmmm).

Dianne Mechanique leaving the SC. Ashcroft's ill-advised justice thing flopping. The news Rummell is sick (sorry to hear that, as in fact I was the one who, familiar with his works from years of Internet browsing, had urged Salzie and Gwyn to contact him about the meaning of the rule of law) and then the person Tardis selling the house where the democracy and peace seminars took place (so sorry that's ended). And other upheavals.

So even though you all advertise yourself as the first and only and best and so forth "democratically elected government in SL" the reason you don't have more support is because, well, many people find socialism not only a bore, but destructive, and even criminal. I mean, individual socialists like Norman Thomas seem honourable and interesting and all the rest, but my God, let them at the levers of government and they just destroy value.

So I do want to pointedly ask: to what do you attribute these failures, upheavals, dramas (of which Ulrika was only the first spring starling?)

Is it the socialism? or the sims?

And by "the sims" I mean:

o the exigency of life on sims -- maybe it's not meant to be? I mean, why form governments on them if they don't work? nobody said the sim has to be the unit of organization. Maybe only continents, once managed and settled can rise to the test of government. Or maybe just groups, where the land or business is completely secondary, a parliament of avian creatures who meet in the air in groups, and don't become beset with issues below on the ground.

o the exigency of sim management -- buildings, traffic, prim, upkeep. Maybe it's just too damn expensive and hard? Nobody said you have to go on doing it on the Lindens' servers. There might be something to be said for migrating to There or Kaneva or even Whyville and focusing on the governance and the process, rather than the awful cost and difficulties of sim upkeep. I mean, we all got tired of having to go to the bathroom all the time and playing pool to stay energetic in the Sims Online and migrated to SL. And pushing prims in SL gets old after awhile. Maybe in a world free of prim management, we could be free?

well, I think these things are worth thinking about.

[Pelanor Eldrich]

Hi Prokofy,

Thanks for the insight and welcome back to our forums. You're always welcome here. We are looking at ways to improve commerce and CDS capitalism in general. Despite some setbacks, I continue to have confidence in the project and I'm sure we'll grow both in population and land size in the coming year. -Pel

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Prokofy":3aa6yabk] Dianne Mechanique leaving the SC. Ashcroft's ill-advised justice thing flopping. The news Rummell is sick (sorry to hear that, as in fact I was the one who, familiar with his works from years of Internet browsing, had urged Salzie and Gwyn to contact him about the meaning of the rule of law) and then the person Tardis selling the house where the democracy and peace seminars took place (so sorry that's ended). And other upheavals. [/quote:3aa6yabk]

Could you refer to me as something other than "person Tardis"? You should really know the facts before writing.
The Land of the Joy House was donated to the Democratic Peace Group by myself and the building was built by myself. Rudy did most of the decorating inside the center. Like it or not I ended up "owning" the group. I was the sole person paying the tier. There was little to no interest in the house in the CDS. There was little traffic past the house and nOObs were using it to engage in sex. Therefore I have decided to take the following measures. The Center for Democratic Peace is not closed forever; I have decided to move it to Caledon and the new "steam airship" sim. It will reopen in a different format and instead of seminars there will be learning aids. I will have a meeting as soon as it is possible and I have time off during a convenient hour that is both north American and Euro friendly. I am still in Iraq on active duty with the US Army. Does anyone have any input?

[Patroklus Murakami]

I think we're seeing this democratic experiment enter a new phase but I don't think we're out for the count just yet! In any project, people come and go depending on their level of commitment and (critically) their Real Life commitments which, for most of us, are more important than what we do in Second Life. We have doubled our numbers and our territory in the last six months, hardly a sign of failure.

The community is going through a 'quiet period'. It's too soon to say whether that's just a lull or a sign of some deeper malaise but I think that we're all a little bruised from the very divisive Judiciary debate from last year. If that means the forums are less 'dramatic' than they have been well, that's no bad thing. The Representative Assembly meets every week (that wasn't always the case in the past) and the Citizens' Social Democratic Faction continues to hold open public meeting every week too. The New Guild is about to launch the contest that will lead to a design for our third sim and, if Colonia Nova was anything to go by, that should help to invigorate the community.

I'd like to see a more active 'civil society' in the CDS; that was one of the reasons I started the CDS Traders' Association. I'd like to see a proliferation of voluntary, religious, cultural and political associations in the CDS so that we become less 'legislature-focussed' as a community. In RL the Congress or Parliament isn't the focus of *everything*; it's the preserve of politics and the institutions of civil society provide the social 'glue' that makes us into more than a random collection of individuals. But it's easier to develop civil society with 700 citizens than 70 so we need to continue to grow first! I'm sure that we will do and that continue to learn from our experiences and our mistakes.

[Dianne]

[quote="Prokofy":6cxs0cpm]... Dianne Mechanique leaving the SC. Ashcroft's ill-advised justice thing flopping. The news Rummell is sick ... [/quote:6cxs0cpm][quote="Prokofy":6cxs0cpm]even though you all advertise yourself as the first and only and best and so forth "democratically elected government in SL" the reason you don't have more support is because, well, [b:6cxs0cpm]many people find socialism ... a bore, ... destructive, ... even criminal.[/b:6cxs0cpm] [/quote:6cxs0cpm]This is insulting garbage.

Many people find George Bush to be intelligent, Capitalism to be fair, and the Mormon religion believable, but none of those [i:6cxs0cpm]opinions[/i:6cxs0cpm] equate to an argument, let alone a valid one.

You are also engaging in a classic "straw-man" argument in that only rank free-market capitalists like yourself could really think of the CDS as "Socialist." To me the CDS is about as socialist as the United States is, which is to say, not at all. The CDS is (austensibly) a democracy and if it [i:6cxs0cpm]is[/i:6cxs0cpm] socialist(ish) it's because that is what people voted for. If People wanted it to be more like the rest of SL (free-market capitalist), they would vote for parties that also believe that.

IMO if there is a "problem" with our democracy or our community it's because of over intellectualising. The problem IMO is that the CDS lives as a community on the forum and (almost) nowhere else.

PS - I left the SC for the reasons stated, because I don't have the time to devote to it and want to spend my time on other projects in RL, not because the CDS is "failing" as you seem wont to describe it.

[Prokofy]

Your claims that you have different factions and that constitutes political pluralism as to social systems just aren't credible.

Having Ashcroft (a corporativist national socialism? just blunt tyranny of the sultanate type? hard to know what to call it) get involved in the judiciary exercise was really bad news. He's not only sectarian; he's unhinged, deranged. That can be readily determined. People should have backed slowly away, then run in knock-kneed terror, but run, run.

Is Ashcroft now gone completely from Neifreistadt? I hope so. But why is it that once again, FriesWithThat fell prey to a tyrant and a sectarian like Ulrika, no matter, of the extreme right or the extreme left or merely just the lunatic fringe?

It's because it's not really free or pluralistic; indeed it is socialist.

Why is it socialist when it claims capitalism? Members the parcels for sale, the membership in the community, is not on the open market. It depends on application and acceptance by a community, a social entity, *socialism*. It's controlled.

In any event, Dianne is just being petulant and looking for bugabears and being a hater by picking out Bush voters or Mormons and claiming they have no coherent ideology. Of course they do, and they're entitled to it. I don't see your socialist leader friends coming up with good ideas of how to get rid of a Sadam type figure -- indeed the French and Russians, good socialists all, propped him up for years and turned a blind eye to his crimes against humanity.

That doesn't make the U.S. occupation right, but it suggests that there were lots of things that could have been done to deal with Sadam differently, and that the socialists of Europe and Eurasia didn't have the answers or the stomach to stand up to tyranny, leaving the field for Bush to have the answers, which proved flawed.

As for "this person Tardis," forgive me if I can't remember a first name and a spelling and don't want to undo a temporary password by trying to go back a page. Again, it's a symptom. If somebody creates a center for peace, and it has no visitors, it's a symptom. It's a commentary.

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Prokofy":3oseuv2f] As for "this person Tardis," forgive me if I can't remember a first name and a spelling and don't want to undo a temporary password by trying to go back a page. Again, it's a symptom. If somebody creates a center for peace, and it has no visitors, it's a symptom. It's a commentary. [/quote:3oseuv2f]

Well, at least you could have done your homework before writing that message. I found it rather insulting. You could have called me Miss Tardis.
Part of the reason there was no traffic was the fact that both Rudy and myself were absent and nobody wanted to take up the slack. This is perhaps the primary reason for moving the center. Nobody was interested in helping run the center, no one.
Soon, very soon the new center will open right off of the tellehub at Caledon Steam Sky City.