Request for Comment: Rezoning of Undeveloped Area

Claude Desmoulins · Post by **Claude Desmoulins** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:22 pm

I have no idea how feasible this is. but....

What about running the waterfall down the slope under the current Schloss balcony and putting the Platz that Sudane suggests at its base (at the NE corner of the area in question -- Wasserfallplatz, perhaps?) Then run the street out from there in some meandering way to the south gate.

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:21 pm

Can't make it more creative than this

This map contains 3 kinds of data:
- green boundaries = property lines of proposed parcels
- color of boxes = proposed use, see legend.
- color of grid = current parcel that box is part of:
........ ### Black grid = frmr. Altenburg.
........ ### White grid = frmr. 1290 Kendrastr..
........ ### Yellow grid = part of Kendrastrasse.

Merits:
+ meandering road
+ mini docks serve as 'mini platz' hang out without wasting much space
+ pond preserved:
........ + looks great
........ + smaller size
........ + convenient end point for stream
+ balcony preserved
........ + sub balcony possible
+ plots have convenient primmage >220% of Platz shops

Notes:
* pond or no pond, opinions differ
* houses not close together caused by 'convenient' primmage.
........ * can be solved by dividing west section not in 3 parcels but in 4.
........ * can be solved by active executives encouraging residents for creative remedies (own architecture, walls or plants).

Parcels:
905 Kendrastrasse 368 sqm = 84 prims, purchase: 10.68 US$ or 3251 L$, monthly: 2.84 US$ or 867 L$, (= 1420 Gwynethstr. + 1230 Talenstr. = 224 plot + 144 plot)
950 Kendrastrasse 320 sqm = 74 prims, purchase: 9,28 US$ or 2828 L$, monthly: 2,48 US$ or 754 L$, (= 133% of 1645 Sudanestrasse Viertel 2)
1005 Kendrastrasse 320 sqm = 74 prims, purchase: 9,28 US$ or 2828 L$, monthly: 2,48 US$ or 754 L$, (= 133% of 1645 Sudanestrasse Viertel 2)
1050 Kendrastrasse 352 sqm = 81 prims, (no prices yet)
1105 Kendrastrasse 384 sqm = 88 prims, (no prices yet)
Pond Parcel 480 sqm = 110 prims, owned by City

Some thoughts:
Most noticeable is the pond. First of all, in this plan the bridge will have to go (sorry Moon!). I have kept the pond not only because I think it's a good end point for the stream, but also because I like city parks, incl. small ones, and in my opinion SL-water does a better job for this than say a stretch of SL-grass would. The 'mini docks', as well as the plants, serve this city park purpose too. The mini docks would be some simple woodwork over the edge of the pond. I think it should provide space for two people and perhaps an animation such as the 'day dream' anim. in the Thermae. This parcel will also have a road to a future sim to the east of NFS, but I don't think it's necessary to build a new city gate right now. The water in this pond should be elevated from its current position: increasing the surface and making it less of a pit. The pond will not only look very good (reed, waterlillies) but also could have some fun applications like adding some of the excellent ducks or fish that SL has or even having some submerged 'archeological artifacts' (!). Let's give this pond a creative name like 'Mud Puddle of Democracy' or something less sarcastic or maybe calling it after Dianne Mechanique; I still think she deserves more thanks than L$ 1000 for the flag only.

The meandering road requires that the parcel that is now "Kendrastrasse" be changed. It comes down to chopping off 5 squares and adding 16 squares to it (the latter being a road to Trotski's and red areas too close to the city walls).

The residental plots have been expanded a bit. As said this departs from the original idea of high density city buildings to some extent. But given the significant number of people complaining about the limited prims their parcel provides, I think this is the right choice. While creative building would be the logical way of preserving some more inner city atmosphere, I don't see this happening. Perhaps it's time for a covenant adjustment.

Agreeing with Sudane that the previously proposed prim parcel should stay with the city, this eliminates the need to move the balcony eastwards.

Finally, I think we should consider getting rid of the clock tower, but for now, it's part of my plan as shown in the map by the red squares.

Sudane Erato wrote:
I volunteer to build this area, once a decision is made.

Great!

Bromo Ivory · Post by **Bromo Ivory** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:34 am

Hi TOP - I got your IM about my comments as a "new resident of NFS"

(I will show Asha this evening - and of course if anyone wants to meet me or her, we will be both in-SIM probably some time between 4PM and 7PM SL Time - IM me or her if you want to meet/chat and can't find us!)

Anyhow, here are some impressions/thoughts:

1. The biggest barrier to owning land in NFS and CN is (no surprise) the low number of prims available to those living in the village. I would not have moved in if I could not have secured the 77 I currently hold (minus 2 for trees currently placed on my prim lot! ) - I think with careful management someone could get as few at 50-60 have good effect, so I would not want to have it go lower than that for sure - and 70-80 gives a nice comfortable, though not extravagant, setup.

2. I like the number of prims and layout per lot in the "pond plan" - though I think with the larger lot sizes, it doesn't allow for the "village feel" of the other part of the village (which is part of the entire charm of the place!). I am wondering if you could do it with 12x12 or 12x14 lots, with special "prim lots" tied to the lots? I know this is not standard - but guaranteeing a certain number of prims for a new resident - rather than "fighting over scraps" (as is done currently) will make the place much more attractive! (for instance a friend of mine just opened a private SIM and he went "double prim" in order to preserve the village feel - and since NFS doesn't work that way - maybe we can "double prim" to 60+ prims per lot, through prim/village lot tie ins as a package? If that were impossible for some sort of legal reason, I would make it the large lots proposed. [In fact based upon lessons learned, every village lot should have a prim lot to match it after personal experience]

3. Looking at the bridge and pond plan above - and I think the amount of prims freed up for use outweigh the need for the current arrangement of bridge and river (though I really like that bridge, though the river seems kind of strange the way it is!). I feel the pond is a good compromise arrangement (I think waterfall and stream would be good if it flowed away for the pond into "Ost-NFS or one of the elevations downward off the hill - though how often are there springs in Bavarian towns near the top of hills? Is this "realistic" in Real life?), that preserves a certain "feel" - and a road "going to" the Ost-Neufreistadt SIM is an absolute must - though I would hesitate making it a Platz for fear of taking away from the current, under-utilized Platz! (Since the telehub is there, having people chatting in the cafe, and going through the shops - maximized "perceived" activity)

Wow - I typed a lot more than I planned. I will add other comments later - and like I said I plan on being in NFS sometime between 4 and 7PM SL time "tonight."

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:05 am

Thanks

[quote="Bromo Ivory":m9rzv4wa]if you could do it with 12x12 or 12x14 lots, with special "prim lots" tied to the lots?[/quote:m9rzv4wa] Possible, very interesting. I don't know how 'land managers' Sudane and Aliasi feel about this.

[quote="Bromo Ivory":m9rzv4wa]* maybe we can "double prim" to 60+ prims per lot, through prim/village lot tie ins as a package?
* the larger lot sizes, it doesn't allow for the "village feel"[/quote:m9rzv4wa]So you want [i:m9rzv4wa]both[/i:m9rzv4wa] double/extra prims and compact, high density city buildings right? Here's a quick sketch I made where I looked how these two would work out:

[img:m9rzv4wa]http://schallplatten.files.wordpress.co ... sketch.png[/img:m9rzv4wa]

My conclusion: Both demands is [i:m9rzv4wa]too[/i:m9rzv4wa] much. Unless you want to make life for the cultural folks such as the museum very difficult I propose to go for something like either
-- plan (3) "pond plan", low density
-- compromise between (3) and (4), medium density

Bromo Ivory · Post by **Bromo Ivory** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:08 pm

[quote="TOPGenosse":37g5biz5]
My conclusion: Both demands is [i:37g5biz5]too[/i:37g5biz5] much. Unless you want to make life for the cultural folks such as the museum very difficult I propose to go for something like either
-- plan (3) "pond plan", low density
-- compromise between (3) and (4), medium density[/quote:37g5biz5]

How about keeping the land "prim neutral" to your other proposals - but try to keep a tighter cluster of houses? (thorugh swapping "prim lots" with "public lands?")

Nikki · Post by **Nikki** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:20 pm

The flowing water and bridge over it in this area was kind of strange for me. In RL I have seen constructed canals in towns like Neufreistadt, but not an open stream like that inside the walls of a single town center - although I have seen such flowing water between two parts of a town. For example, just outside of a wall with houses on the other side.

The main problem I think is that the stream would apparently have gone under the city wall, but where? Then where is it going from there? If this water runs mostly under the ground, why should there be a bridge over it only in this one area? If these questions were answered by a stream of open water running through the town in a way that one could follow from beginning to end, then I would be in agreement with it.

Claude Desmoulins · Post by **Claude Desmoulins** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:49 pm

[quote="Nikki":1v1lic3f]

The main problem I think is that the stream would apparently have gone under the city wall, but where? Then where is it going from there? If this water runs mostly under the ground, why should there be a bridge over it only in this one area? If these questions were answered by a stream of open water running through the town in a way that one could follow from beginning to end, then I would be in agreement with it.[/quote:1v1lic3f]

Since the city wall in question is also a sim edge, we can dodge the question of where the water comes from until we expand east of NFS. Where it goes is trickier.

Reuben Handrick · Post by **Reuben Handrick** » Tue May 22, 2007 9:43 am

Nice and interesting plan. I love the possibility of new residential zones, and the existance of not straigh streets I think can make NFS old city more medieval. Only thing I look with sad eyes is the demolition of old bridge... Could be possible to find an alternative? Perhaps a narrow bridege integrated in the plan... You can call me conservative... I would like to keep that nice unique part of NFS.

PS: I know I only ask and dont say how to do it, but I am too young in SL to know how to do it.

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:34 am

[quote="Nikki":n6m6wo86]flowing water ... kind of strange for me. ... If (...) a stream of open water running through the town in a way that one could follow (...), then I would be in agreement with it.[/quote:n6m6wo86]
[quote="Claude Desmoulins":n6m6wo86]Since the city wall in question is also a sim edge, we can dodge the question of where the water comes from until we expand east of NFS. Where it goes is trickier.[/quote:n6m6wo86]

In the map above, I tried to show that the pond is supplied by a stream that starts below the Schloss balcony. The question where the water should flow to, and that it should look credible are good points. I think Nikki's concern can be addressed by applying Claude's suggestion the other way around:

[color=blue:n6m6wo86]1. stream/waterfall [b:n6m6wo86]starts below balcony[/b:n6m6wo86] of Schloss
2. [b:n6m6wo86]reaches pond in north west corner[/b:n6m6wo86] of pond (near clock tower)
3. pond water slowly flows West --> East
4. [b:n6m6wo86]water flows to edge of sim[/b:n6m6wo86] (in the east), through the pipes, or a small pedestrian bridge
5. [b:n6m6wo86]future sim in east can let the water flow naturally[/b:n6m6wo86], like Nikki wants to see, providing interesting opportunities for that sim.[/color:n6m6wo86]

PS. Aliasi asked, in the first post, for prospective citizens if they would share their thoughts about the area. Since I don't know any of them, I asked some of the newest citizens for their 'fresh' view on this matter. So thanks everyone for your comments

Bromo Ivory · Post by **Bromo Ivory** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:13 am

I have been looking at the area a bit more. I think the flowing water is good provided we can make it credible - the way you suggested just now, TOP, is a good way. I would go with that.

Any thoughts on the lot allocation?

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Fri May 25, 2007 11:13 am

[i:2q65xecl]
'Preserving City Atmosphere'[/i:2q65xecl]

Both Bromo and Sudane expressed their concern that my proposal/map with 5 plots would not preserve the 'city feel', with the closely built houses. I think two things can remedy this:
[list:2q65xecl]
* Make 6 parcels instead of 5 (7 or 8 will result in low prim numbers)
* Adjust the covenant slightly: buildings must be directly adjacent to the street (=no front yard).[/list:u:2q65xecl][quote="Adjusted NFS Covenant, for inside city walls":2q65xecl]Zone I

* All buildings must be consistent with a Medieval Germanic style
* All buildings must have functioning doors
* All structures must be placed immediately adjacent to a street or connect to it via a path
[color=blue:2q65xecl] * All structures on the Kendrastrasse must be placed immediately adjacent the street <-- New[/color:2q65xecl]
* Commercial activity is permitted
* No person may hold more than 1024 m2 in zone I
* No person may hold more than two lots in zone I
* All parcels in Zone I must have on them a building that comprises a house and/or shop. [/quote:2q65xecl]
Brian's difficult parcel and Jonty's existing house on this street will get a covenant waiver. The chancellor can make small covenant modifications, right?

Hmm, now I think about it. Adjusting a covenant for 1 street is a bit silly Bah, I really can't think of any way to get this 'city feel' except having 1 or 2 more plots. I don't like 8+ parcel plans, 'cause they'll have 30 or 40 prims on some parcels and that -uh- sucks. Maybe we could drop [i:2q65xecl]'or connect to it via a path'[/i:2q65xecl] from the covenant (as it is now), and not mention the Kendrastrasse?

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:40 pm

[color=blue:20y27wvc]* * UPDATE * * :[/color:20y27wvc]
A summary of this meeting [url=http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtop ... 7:20y27wvc]can be found here[/url:20y27wvc], I didn't want to distract the attention from Arria's interesting new post.

WHAT: Meeting about NFS Undeveloped Area and about prims in general.
WHEN: Wedn. 3pmSLT in Trotski's and Sat. 11amSLT outside Absinth Neufreistadt (the wine store)
AGENDA: (1) Prims and planning of NFS Undeveloped Area (2) Other prim related discussion and discussion of goal of this 'taskforce'
WHO: You, if you've followed the discussion and know what this thread is about.

We hope to see you there! --Bromo Ivory/Rose Springvale/TOPGenosse Brouwer

[size=92:20y27wvc]
MORE INFO
- - - - - - - - -
At last Sunday's Guild meeting, a question about prim management regarding redevelopment of NFS's 'Undeveloped Area' soon turned into a big discussion about prim management in the CDS in general. A 1-week taskforce was proposed to look at these things more closely. We hope to see the interested people at the two meetings for this taskforce:
- Wednesday May 30th at 3 pm SLT in Trotski's
- Saturday June 2nd at 11 am SLT, outside the new wine store Absinth Neufreistadt

UNDEVELOPED AREA
I've put the Undeveloped Area on top of the agenda, because I think we can all agree that after a year of emptyness,
redevelopment should start soon. There is one big remaining issue for this area:
How to combine lots with many prims with keeping a 'city atmosphere' with houses close toghether?
This is what I would like to focus the discussion on.

OTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT PRIMS
Some people expressed unhappiness about the availability of prims or the policy. Does this need to be looked at or not?

GOAL OF TASKFORCE
What advice/statement do we want to make regarding the above?
[/size:20y27wvc]

[color=blue:20y27wvc]* * UPDATE * * :[/color:20y27wvc]
A summary of this meeting [url=http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtop ... 7:20y27wvc]can be found here[/url:20y27wvc], I didn't want to distract the attention from Arria's interesting new post.

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:02 pm

My last plan was this one.

Some pro's, cons and tweaks to it were discussed in subsequent posts.

- - - - -