Resignation from the CDS Representative Assembly

[Beathan]

Michel --

You said [quote:28ktqi89]As I stated on another thread, individuals whose name appeared on the CARE ballot at tle last election are free to take up the vacated seat if they so desire, but not under the CARE banner. I have never threatened anyone with expulsion; this is another idea you picked up from one of my "friends" on the forums without even the courtesy of talking to me face to face[/quote:28ktqi89]

Presumably you mean me.

On that point, I never said that you were threatening any one with expulsion from CARE. I simply said that, on my reading of the CARE Constitution, I think you could do so it you wanted to. Specifically, I said

[quote:28ktqi89]First, Michel Manen is the RA representative from CARE and is the "Executive Council" of CARE. CARE has an elaborate Faction Constitution, giving the Executive Council (that is Michel) extreme control over the party, its positions, and its members (with regard to the members political actions). I believe that this Faction Constitution gives Michel the right to expel anyt member from CARE who acts in a way of which he disapproves.
[/quote:28ktqi89]

This was part of a larger discussion of the problem involving CARE succession. Under CDS principles, Parties hold RA seats, individuals do not. This means that a CARE member cannot, as you suggest, take up the vacated seat, but not under the CARE banner.

If no person can fill the CARE seat under the CARE banner, we need to have a special election to decide which of the other three parties picks up the seat.

On a different note, I am not sure how Ben or Dave could be citizens on the terms you propose. I know that Oni once owned land outright, so he was a citizen landowner when he joined the CDS group. This means he can continue to be a citizen by virtue of group ownership. Presumably Ben and Dave did the same. This hurdle (of the need to buy and own land personally) is the hurdle to citizenship that I object to -- and that the pending legislation is intended to lower or remove.

Again, I don't understand why you are leaving the RA because the RA is making it easier for avs to become citizens when your stated goal is to expand citizenship.

Beathan

[michelmanen]

Beathan,

I never said you explicitly stated that I would expel anyone from CARE; but as you mention, you did state that I could do so - and this idea was, in my words, "picked up" and expanded upon by Aliasi. So again, texts and words get distorted and expanded with obvious consequences. As an aside, the rest of your comments regarding CARE are not exactly flattering... I know of no other CDS party that has been attacked with the vehemence and sustained invective faced by CARE from the moment it was founded. It is not just CARE's policies, but its very legitimacy and right to exist that has been put questioned again and again. Not exactly a friendly attitude from those engaging in such acts, don't you think?

As for the pending legislation, under the guise of opening up citizenship rules, the RA will tighten them up further and intervene even more in the private lives of its citizens. In stating that couples could jointly own land and derive their citizenship therefrom, the RA passes a value judgement. What is a couple? And why just a couple, as long as the lot in question could entitle 3 , 4 or more people to become citizens? What if a repressed minority wished to join and buy a larger parcel? What if a number of individuals having a different conception of personal relationships wishes to join? What if a group of business partners wished to join? All would be preculded from doing so on the basis of this new legislation. So there is noting open, or forward-looking, or immigrant friendly about these bills. To the contrary, they remain just as exclusive and restricting - in addition to departing, now, from the objective criteria of 128 m2 per person to introducing the dangerous concept of "a couple" in our legislation.

In addition, the proposed legislation intends to limit even more the right of entry into our community by stipulating that each parcel, independently of its size, could only be the source of citizenship for a very limited number of individuals - like, for example, 4. Again, this is a new and clear barrier to immigration and a restriction which is at odds with current legislation, which states that any number of individuals may derive their citizenship from one parcel of land as long as the parcel contains at least 128 m2 for each group member.

Finally, the new legislation would require each individual to pay personally a percentage of the tier fee of the group to which he/she belongs, under penalty of loss of citizenship and possible reajustment of lands owned by the group in question. Under such legislation, not only we would not gain new citizens, or facilitiate entry of others, but we would most likely lose at least 3 current citizens (Oni, Ben and Dave Attenborough) who have not been around in quite a while and whose group tier fees are paid by other members of the groups to which they belong.

In summary, under the guise of opening up citizenship to couples, the new legislation deviates from up-to-now objective criteria, introduces value-landen concepts into our legislation, restricts entry into our community and may even force current citizens to lose their citizenship. As an aside, the proposed legislation totally fails to deal with the issue of non-land based citizenship, which has been raised before by a number of individuals on repeated occasions, and which would indeed represent a great step forward for our democracy. Therefore, I see such legilsation as an unacceptable step back for CDS as a whole and cannot in all good conscienc be associated with an institution capable of envisaging the adopion of such laws.

What disturbs me just as much is the manner in which such laws are being drafted: by 1 or 2 individuals, with maybe a few more making comments on the forums. So at most 10 per cent of the current CDS population has any input at all in this process, and the people who actually do the drafting, discussing and voting can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

This is why I stated that CARE ( and I) would agree be associated with the current RA only in the eventuality that the RA would agree to open up the drafting and debating and decision-making process regardign this matter (and three other, equally important topics) to as many off our citizens as possible, so that the legislation finally adopted does not represent just the views, opinions and value-judgements of a handful ofp people, but of CDS citizens as a whole.

[michelmanen]

Justice,

I never asked members of the RA to acknowledge their own severe failings. CDS is not a stalinist state putting on show-trials in which accused citizens are forced to proclaim their guilt out loud and beg for punishment. What i did say was the the current RA should acknowledge the severe failing of our curren system of governance, failings which I repeteadly addressed on other threads and will not repeat here. And the only request CARE ( and I) made to resume participation was that the consultation and drafting process on 4 key topics vital for our community's future be taken out of the hands of a handful of people and be expanded to all our citizens, so that such fundamental legilsation would end up representing the views of our community as a whole, and not just that of individuals who could be counted on the fingers of one hand and who, in one capacity or another, are perenially in charge of CDS. What exactly is so outlandish abou this request, in your opinion?

To conclude, I'd rather be an ineffective and even absent mebmer of this RA rather than be seen as endorsing or even acquiescing to both the substance and the form of the legislation currently being considered by its members.

Michel Manen

[Sudane Erato]

I hereby humbly ask to briefly set aside my role as EO and Treasurer in order to express my opinions on this matter. I have so far refrained from doing so in the conviction that an individual holding these roles must maintain a strict political neutrality, for obvious reasons.

But the substance of this post makes me extremely angry.

[quote="michelmanen":1s1y66ck]Sudane, from the strictly legal point of view, Oni, Ben and Dave remain citizens as members of Hammurabi Chambers and CIH. The tier fees are regularly paid and no arrears are due. They can continue to derive their citizenship from the lots owned by these groups as long as no additional, stricter citizenship requirements will be imposed by the RA on its citizens.

However, for all intents and purposes, due to various events which I shall not review here, Oni, Ben and Dave haven't been seen in CDS for a long time and have not taken any part in our community's life. It was my hope that the atmosphere in CDS would improve and that, eventually, they would return in practice and become again active members of our community.

So, to answer your question: Oni, Ben, and Dave have not abandoned their citizenship, in that they have not made such statements (at least not to me) and in the sense that the groups to which they belong and derive their citizenship from continue to have their tier fees paid punctually. So they are in strict compliance with CDS law as it stands. However, they have taken no part in the life of our community for quite some time, which I think represents a sad and real loss to the CDS.

As for Diane, although she remains a citizen, she has resigned her position in the SC and significantly curtailed her activities in the CDS, for reasons best explained be her in another thread. So, again, while she remains a CDS citizen, her active involvment in our community's life is for all intents and purposes non-existent. This, indeed, is the case for many of our "absentee citizens" who continue to pay tier fees and thus maintain their citizenship status, but take little or no part in our community's life, preferring for various reasons (RL or SL-based) to spend their time engaged in other activities. Such a purely technical compliance with CDS law, while beneficial to the CDS Treasury, does little for our life as a community and the health our our democracy.[/quote:1s1y66ck]

These examples speak volumes for what the core of the problem is here.

Oni Jiutau and Benjamin Noble both joined CDS by buying their own personal parcels, which later they sold or abandoned, and indicated to me that they would derive their citizenship from membership in Michel's groups (in their case, Hammurabi Chambers). Dave Attenborough is an example of a citizen who gained it through my strict error... he formed a new group under Michel's aegis, who purchased a "workshop" for artists, with Dave (to my understanding) as the first resident.

To my mind, there is utterly no difference between these three in the issue of their involvement as citizens. Oni did in fact, during the Ashcroft fiasco, contribute a few posts in an attempt to be a moderating voice in that conflict. Other than that, none of them has made the slightest contribution to our community. Gwyn has pleaded eloquently for volunteers for the "judicial" duties of the SC... have any of the lawyers responded?... volunteered to help??? These are simply people who have not participated in the matters and affairs of our community in any way. All three have their fees paid by other citizens, and, for all we know, may not even remember what the CDS is. There are many of our citizens for whom membership in the CDS is nothing more than a warm glow in the hearts, and, in some cases, a monthly payment.

I often receive inquiries of interest in joining the CDS. In general, I have to tell them that little or no land is available. And, indeed, it is possible that among these very inquirers might be future members who really WOULD be interested in participating in the community.

[quote:1s1y66ck]It was my hope that the atmosphere in CDS would improve and that, eventually, they would return in practice and become again active members of our community. [/quote:1s1y66ck]

Improve! It will improve when more people take it upon themselves to help! To contribute in some active way in the many things that need to be done. And helping form the systems we desparately need to enable our community affairs to be fair and just. People who simply opt to "non-participate" do nothing in my mind to make that happen. To attack the few people who do stand up and volunteer to help, volunteer to take valuable hours of their lives to contribute to something they belive in... to attack these people as the problem is the heights of hypocrisy.

Sudane.....

[Patroklus Murakami]

This discussion has moved on to consider quite a few issues that are not strictly related to Michel's announcement of his resignation.

Can I suggest that posters consider creating new threads in other, more appropriate fora so these issues can be debated better? I'm going to practice what I preach and respond to some of Michel's points on the proposed changes to the Group Land Ownership in the Legislative Discussion thread set up for that.

[michelmanen]

Sudane,

Thank you for your comments. In the interests of accuracy, I wish to clarify a few points:

Ash joined the CDS because the then-RA specifically madated him to develop the Judiciary Branch of the CDS. He also set up a qualifying test for judges.

Oni and Ben joined the CDS at Ash's behest and spent quite a lot of time and effort to learn about the CDS history, structure, institutions and laws so as to pass Ash's extremely demanding qualifying test. Whatever anyone may think about how appropriate such a test was, it cannot be in doubt that only a person who would become throughly familiar with CDS would pass them.

Once the tests were passed, and the two qualified as Judges, what did the RA do? Appoint them as Judges? Of course not - it simply abolished the Judiciary, in the process destroying six months of hard work by Ash and in effect ignoring the time and effort Oni and Ben invested in learning aobut the CDS and passing the Judge qualifiying tests.

So, with all due respect, Sudane, why are you possibly surprised that neither Ben nor Oni continue to be involved in the CDS, and that other lawyers in this sim refuse to volunteer their time and efforts to help in the development of a community whose leaders have shown themselves capable in such a wanton and cavalier manner to go back on their collective word (validated by votes in its elected Representative Assembly) and simply destroy or disrespect so many hours of free work and efforts? Laywers may indeed have a bad reputation, but they certainly aren't known as stupid - and investing more time and efforts in CDS institutions as they now stand would be nothing but the height of stupidity after the manner in which Ash, Oni and Ben were treated by the CDS oligarchs.

Dave's story is different. Dave was introduced to the CDS by Rose and I in order to breathe in some new life in our community by encouraging the arts and artistic events. Rose in fact did end up organising, out of her own funds, two very successful artists' exhibitions, the last of which was Dave's. In addition, some of Dave's work was chosen to be exhibited in the MoCA, a fact which was noted and publicised by Second Life video news channels. So, to say that Dave contributed little or nothing to CDS does not exactly represent reality as it actually happened.

Dave had every intention to become involved in the life of the CDS and help bring more artists to take up residence here and contribute to its artistic life and development .....until his art was attacked and he was personally threatened with expulssion by no less than the CDS Chancellor. Why exactly, Sudane, are you surprised that Dave is now less than enthusiastic about contributing to the CDS after being welcomed in such a friendly fashion by our elected representatives?

So really, what you refer to as "the core of the problem" is in fact the symptom: we have individuals -lawyers, artists, who freely chose to invest their time, expertise, financial resources, and efforts in this community, and were disrespected and their work debased and dismissed by the CDS oligarchs who think that it is somehow their holy right to lord it over this community for six months, in between elections. And even when elections are held, pretty much the same people remain in charge in varying positions, so really nothing changes and the vote might as well never have happened, because the the same dozen or less people remain in charge anyway.

Of course, when someone comes along and naively believes that the Community of Democratic Simulators really does wish to live up to its name of being the only truly democratic community in Second life, and invests over a period of six months a huge amount of time, efforts, and resources (financial or otherwise) to truly democratise the institutional structure of our system of governance, to bring in citizens who no longer participate, to recruit new members, to open up new avenues of membership and participation, he and his organisation are attacked and villified by this handful of oligarchs who sense that their comfortable positions as unquestions lords of the CDS is being threatened and therefore are willing to stoop however low it takes to make sure this won't happen. This, Sudane, is the core of the problem. And this problem will not be addressed by treating just its most obvious symptoms and adopting even more restrictive and exclusive citizenship laws. This is why CARE (and I) have resigned from the current RA and no longer wish to be associated with it.

And the height of hypocrisy would be to continue to pretend that CDS is an open, inviting, and democratic community and ignore the appalling manner in which a few individuals continue to mis-run and mis-manage this community and turn against and run out all those who in any way constitute a threat to the oligarchic structure of this place and to their hold over it!!!

[Rose Springvale]

[quote="Sudane Erato":1li83y2b]I. Gwyn has pleaded eloquently for volunteers for the "judicial" duties of the SC... have any of the lawyers responded?... volunteered to help??? These are simply people who have not participated in the matters and affairs of our community in any way. All three have their fees paid by other citizens, and, for all we know, may not even remember what the CDS is. There are many of our citizens for whom membership in the CDS is nothing more than a warm glow in the hearts, and, in some cases, a monthly payment.

I often receive inquiries of interest in joining the CDS. In general, I have to tell them that little or no land is available. And, indeed, it is possible that among these very inquirers might be future members who really WOULD be interested in participating in the community.

Sudane.....[/quote:1li83y2b]

Just because we are lawyers doesn't mean we want to participate in creating a judicial system. I, for one do not believe it has any merit. The SLBA(second life bar association) has taken up the issue and there are people far more qualified than any of us to create a system, and they don't see a realistic solution. So why waste time pretending?

I don't go to court in rl and have no intention of doing so in sl. So i take issue with this blanket statement. I think i raise my hand to volunteer whenever there is something i can do.

As for others... Jeremy and i have both handled issues between residents. Beathan is here, Michel is here. Justice i think is a lawyer, and there are no doubt more. So i fail to understand why even here, lawyers are the source of complaint.

I never met Oni. Ben Noble is leading the SLBA and trying to make the system we all seem so keen on getting a reality grid wide. I commend you to the SLBA forums for what HE has been doing. Just because it doesn't happen on the CDS Discussion Forum doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

We all know the story of Ash... doesnt' ANYONE get credit for hours of discussions on the discarded code? We have to have our names in these forums for our participation to matter?

Okay, my name is now here. And if you want more land to sell, then i will free mine up and make it available. I said just this morning that i have too much time, energy and money invested just to walk away. I don't believe in love it or leave it attitudes, But frankly, i expect better from the people here. You are all intelligent adults. What game are you playing?

I am not now nor ever have been under the aegis of Michel.Dave was my friend, and i will take credit and responsibility for bringing him to CN. I have personally paid enough for his art for him to have purchased many CDS plots, so your conclusions on source of funds are curious.

I do not belong to any political party. There has been almost no outreach to me or my law partner to do anything specific for CDS. The only one of the currrent RA members, or ex members as the case may be, with whom i've ever had a personal conversation, is Michel. He and i disagree often, but we seem to be able to be courteous in a way that isn't readily apparent on this board.

If you want participation, you need to make your forum a place of friendly exchange, not a shooting gallery. If i were moderator of this board, i'd have imposed a cooling off period on both Michel and Pat a long time ago.

[Jon Seattle]

1. The SC is not an attempt to create a judicial system. It is a vital part of our government and is needed to balance the power of the of the RA. The SC almost never does what might be called trying in case, for the most part it considers the constitutionality of RA decisions.

2. I see a pattern, mainly in Ash's and then Michel's involvement in the community. Both had projects in mind and carried out those projects with a small collection of friends. Few of the rest of us were involved or consulted and the feeling many of us had was that new people would be brought in to the CDS to carry out those projects.

Contrast that with the excellent MoCA revival project or even Rudy's peace seminar group where existing citizens were approached and welcomed from the start. Outsiders need not be excluded just because insiders are welcomed. In my experience CDS citizens are quite happy with projects where they are invited, even if they do not choose to participate.

I agree 100% with Sudane's post.

[michelmanen]

[quote:1v6299i7]1. The SC is not an attempt to create a judicial system. It is a vital part of our government and is needed to balance the power of the of the RA. The SC almost never does what might be called trying in case, for the most part it considers the constitutionality of RA decisions.[/quote:1v6299i7]

The SC has been for a time and is right now limited to Gwyn. Read her own post on this. Not a very healthy state of affairs, don't you think?

[quote:1v6299i7]2. I see a pattern, mainly in Ash's and then Michel's involvement in the community. Both had projects in mind and carried out those projects with a small collection of friends. Few of the rest of us were involved or consulted and the feeling many of us had was that new people would be brought in to the CDS to carry out those projects.[/quote:1v6299i7]

And God forbid that new people would come into the CDS to carry out projects! Thank you for making my point - it clearly shows the total paranoia of the small band of oligarchs who think they own CDS and regard with suspicion and xenophobia all newcomers - unless, of course, they stay in their corner, keep their mouth shut, do as they're told and above all don't rock the boat!

By the way, exactly what project did I have in mind -besides, of course, trying to make CDS live up to its claim to be the only truly democratic community in SL? And who exactly did I not invite or ask to participate?

[quote:1v6299i7]Contrast that with the excellent MoCA revival project or even Rudy's peace seminar group where existing citizens were approached and welcomed from the start. Outsiders need not be excluded just because insiders are welcomed. In my experience CDS citizens are quite happy with projects where they are invited, even if they do not choose to participate. [/quote:1v6299i7]

What nonsense! I really have to stop wasting my time answering such posts on these forums....

[Jon Seattle]

[quote="michelmanen":2kbo5786]
The SC has been for a time and is right now limited to Gwyn. Read her own post on this. Not a very healthy state of affairs, don't you think?[/quote:2kbo5786]
Nonsense. Gwyn is always humble about her own achievements, but she has done an excellent job. The current situation is to a large part a consequence of her success in running the SC and successfully mediating many potential divisions in our community. It is a good thing that the SC is a quiet place and not a source of conflict. As a result the job of SC member is rather dull. This is as it should be.

[quote:2kbo5786]2. I see a pattern, mainly in Ash's and then Michel's involvement in the community. Both had projects in mind and carried out those projects with a small collection of friends. Few of the rest of us were involved or consulted and the feeling many of us had was that new people would be brought in to the CDS to carry out those projects.[/quote:2kbo5786][quote="michelmanen":2kbo5786]Thank you for making my point - it clearly shows the total paranoia of the small band of oligarchs who think they own CDS and regard with suspicion and xenophobia all newcomers - unless, of course, they stay in their corner, keep their mouth shut, do as they're told and above all don't rock the boat![/quote:2kbo5786]Are you are claiming that I qualify as one of this band of oligarchs because I have been a citizen for a just few months longer than you have? I've always felt welcome to participate. How did I get membership in the secret club?

I have seen quite a number of people join the CDS, carry out very successful projects, and become full and valued members of our community. It is not a closed society and it is certainly not a band of oligarchs. But the people who have put in many hours to build this community do not deserve the scorn you insist on heaping on them. You seen to like the idea of the CDS while rejecting all the people (new and old) who actually built the community.

[quote="michelmanen":2kbo5786]By the way, exactly what project did I have in mind -besides, of course, trying to make CDS live up to its claim to be the only truly democratic community in SL? And who exactly did I not invite or ask to participate?[/quote:2kbo5786]Who do you think you are fooling?

[quote:2kbo5786]Contrast that with the excellent MoCA revival project or even Rudy's peace seminar group where existing citizens were approached and welcomed from the start. Outsiders need not be excluded just because insiders are welcomed. In my experience CDS citizens are quite happy with projects where they are invited, even if they do not choose to participate. [/quote:2kbo5786][quote="michelmanen":2kbo5786]What nonsense! I really have to stop wasting my time answering such posts on these forums....[/quote:2kbo5786]You could have chosen, you still may choose, to actually join and help us organize and build. But you would have to be patient and given citizens a real say in the projects they contribute to. We are a community of volunteers, and if your attitude says, at every turn that the existing citizens are ologachs etc, you are neither showing respect for our community nor for our democracy. Its too bad.

[Mizou Vavoom]

As member of CARE, i accepted to fill the vacant seat as from last week end. Politics is something I am totally new to unless home and work politics count, so then I have only practised the kitchensink variety
Working with people in a team, coming to descisions which is aimed at benefitting everybody, through listening & understanding and aimed at progressing in an organic and creative way, those principles have beeen my politics.
Transparency: In rl i teach IT; webdesign & internet. I teach adults with special needs, ranging from learning difficulties, depression, schizophrenia and Asperger Syndrome.
I am a mother of 4 children ranging from my eldest son 30 years old to my youngest daughter who is 13 years old. I have 2 grandchildren.
I live in Ireland, beautiful County Wicklow with its hills and lakes & beaches; I work in Irelands' capital, Dublin right beside the Guinness brewery.
In sl I have my own building company, Carpe Diem Design, based in Cosy Cove and I earn real euros from this business.
My sl mentor & friend is Sudane Erato whose work and personality I deeply admire. On Cosy Cove, Dianne Mechanique & Sky were my nexdoor neighbours.
I became an CDS citizen when i purchased the parcel where my taverna /shop is beside the thermae on Colonia Nova.
As a CARE representative I will continue the work Michel Manen started. More on that....