Who ARE the Candidates?

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michelmanen
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Who ARE the Candidates?

Post by michelmanen »

It is quite interesting that, while CARE has clearly anounced its candidates for the upcoming Representative Asembly Elections by informing the Dean of the Scientific Council as required by law, posting this information together with its current mebmership list on the CDS forums, and displaying the CARE RA Candidates' names and pictures in the CN Forum, none of the other parties have made any public announcements as to who their candidates are.

The CSDF RA member mentioned to me that his party would field "at least" (sic) three candidadates - but no public announcement was made giving any specific details.

When asked about the intentions of the Simplicity Party, the SP founder and current CDS Chancellor replied that she is not the party leader - "just a member"; but she "presumes" (sic) that the SP's current RA members (actually there is only one SP member in the RA) will be standing.

Finally, I have also just found out from an ex-citizen that the DPU has folded due to lack of candidates - from a party notice sent only to party members. No official announcment was made to let CDS citizens know- neither in-world, nor in the forums.

So, half-way through the RA campaign, with just one week left until voting begins, CARE feels fully justified in asking a simple question:

[size=150:2u6goapi][b:2u6goapi]Who ARE the Candidates?[/b:2u6goapi][/size:2u6goapi]

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Aliasi Stonebender
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Post by Aliasi Stonebender »

As you may or may not be aware, Michel, the candidates are not very important save to the members of that party. The entire purpose of the faction system is to avoid 'cults of personality' where people might vote for a faction entirely on the strength of a single candidate, but for a party's platform as a whole.

In every election to date, it has been uncommon for people to declare their personal candidacy. Even in the cases where it happened (I'm thinking of the old SDF here, and a couple of notable campaigns) it was plainly a campaign of the faction first, the candidate second.

I find it rather amusing that you're attacking the system working as intended as some great conspiracy of secrecy. The membership rolls of each faction are a matter of public record; if you look and find someone you would not vote for, and believe that they are a probable favorite of that faction, don't rank that faction high!

As for me: I did not intend to serve a third term. At the request of several people I shall probably keep my name in the ring for this election. Like Sudane, I'd like to shove this job onto someone else, but also like Sudane, nobody seems to trust other people enough to do it. :)

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Post by Beathan »

Michel --

Unlike CARE, which operates on a Central Committee model that disturbs be as being far more reminiscent of non-democratic institutions from Eastern and Central Europe, the Simplicity Party does not presume to speak for its members. We are a loose and free association of like-minded individuals who want to keep the CDS free by keeping CDS government simple.

I have declared my candidacy for the RA by informing the Dean and Chancellor. I presume that any other Simplicity Party member who wishes to declare has done likewise.

I also understand that the DPU, after a long stint in power -- an exhausting and rather thankless task -- is suffering from an understandable exhaustion. Rather than criticise the DPU for the humanity of its members, we should thank those members for their long and very competent service.

Beathan Vale

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Who ARE the Candidates?

Post by michelmanen »

Beathan, where is the "public record" you speak of? I for one have been unable to find it. That was the purpose of my entire query.
I didn't criticize the DPU for folding, but for failing to post even a two-line note in the forums or in the Rathaus announcing to all citizens and not just to its members that it was indeed folding. Is it so undemocratic to let citizens know in an open, public and timely manner which parties are still in the running in the upcoming elections and which aren't -especially since, according to Aliasi, only parties and their platforms count in our elections, and not individual candidates?

And since we're on that subject, Aliasi are we to understand that according to you, citizens are supposed to vote for parties who can win up to seven seats each, without knowing which individuals exactly are in the running, and then leave it entirely up to party leaders to fill in these seats [i:2d93pggd]ex post facto[/i:2d93pggd] depending on how many "party" votes their factions have won? This truly is a novel and fascinating concept of democracy! Even the old European Socialist parties published lists of their candidates before the urns were opened....

Well, this election method (as currently understood and practiced), which had led this session to a record number of resignations and of lack of quorums in the RA, togeteher with the (likely?! probable?! possible?! depending on whether she's likey to win or not?!) renewed cadidacy of a Chancellor who has been quasi absent from the CDS for this term and repeatedly failed to meet her constitutional obligations not only to implement and enforce CDS laws in a timely fasion, but even her mandatory duty to meet with the RA at least once a month (due of course to understable RL commitments!) -and who has famously declared "You get what you pay for" when requested to perform her tasks more promptly- yet who is running again for a third consecutive term, because she knows that she does not have to face the voters nor even to declare before the vote! -but only to be confirmed by the newly-elected RA members (chosen among candidates who, as mentioned, are at least to some extent unknown before the voting takes place) shows exactly what is wrong with our system of goverment and with those who have been monopolising its levers of power for far too long.

To quote our outgoing RA Leader, "It is surprising to me how quickly we have become so conservative".

So, after all this, I return to my question: where is the public record which would allow our citizens to find out [b:2d93pggd]who ARE the candidates?[/b:2d93pggd]

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Post by Beathan »

Michel --

I don't understand your question about the "public record." My post did not address or imply any such record. That said, I think that, in the past, there has been such a record -- produced by the Public Information Officer. However, I understand that the PIO position is currently vacant and that Salzie is stepping in, as a true volunteer, to fulfill the critical functions of the position (compiling the election information -- distributing the voter information packet).

To that end, under the history and current theory of the CDS (novel or not), the identity of the candidates is not essential information -- so production of a "public record" of those candidates is not a critical electoral function of the PIO. Therefore, it is not remarkable that no such record has been distributed.

You might disagree with the theory of CDS election (and I might agree with you in this disagreement). However, the fact is that the theory is that individual party representatives are fungible -- and that what matters for electoral decision is not the identity of the person elected, but the platform which is supported by the election.

Given this theory, turn-over in the RA is not a sign of lack of success. Turnover in the RA is irrelevant -- provided that the Parties continue to be represented on the RA. Given this theory, the only party that failed to fulfill its electoral mandidate this last term was CARE. It is ironic (to use the most polite of the possible descriptive terms) that you are making political points out of your personal sabotage of the CDS system.

(As an aside, I understand that your claim that there has been a "record number" of resignations from the RA this term is not accurate. (Old timers -- correct me if I am wrong.) Your mistake comes, I think, from the fact that you have only seen two sessions of the RA -- both under the able leadership of the DPU -- and are judging the second session by the standard of the first. There was a critical difference between the two sessions which caused the second to be less successful -- you were elected.)

Further, I don't see that Aliasi has failed to perform her duty at all. Rather, she (in line with her Party's position) conceives of the job of Chancellor as a minimalist position. The job implies broad and sweeping -- and therefore dangerous -- powers. These powers should be used only as a last resort or in the very short-term to prevent them from trampling on the rights of the citizens. Aliasi has been exceptionally able to perform her job without imperiling our rights or our project. A less circumspect Chancellor (as you would be) would be far more dangerous -- and therefore far more likely to cause ill-will and fear in our community.

Fortunately, the Chancellor is very easily removed. The fact that Aliasi has not been so removed is (I think ) a clear indication that she has not behaved unconstitutionally and has not shirked her duty. Frankly, I think that anyone you tries to fulfill the office of Chancellor on a different (more active, more totalitarian) model would be treated far differently (most likely, would be removed).

Beathan

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Post by Bromo Ivory »

[quote="Beathan":3194t0gy]... of Chancellor on a different (more active, more totalitarian) model would be treated far differently (most likely, would be removed) ... [/quote:3194t0gy]

I can see that there is quite a bit of attack form you Beathen - and name calling already (implied, etc.) before any serious campaigning. As a newly minted CARE party member, I would like to ask that in the name of civic debate, that we don't accuse anyone of being fascists, communists, dictators and and other things? I feel one thing that has alienated people is that kind of name calling in RL and SL. Which has motivated me, quite frankly, to put my hat in the ring, but in some it alienates - and really ought to stop.

I think you will find that CARE is standing for the inclusion of everyone - and is of the mind that "what you see is what you get" - in that we have published our candidate lists in this case rather prominently - and are encouraging the other parties to do the same. :)

I am really puzzled by the resistance - perhaps it hasn't been done before? "Citizen's don't need to know?"

The intent on attack is obvious - and I accept you feel angry and perhaps hurt due to the past perhaps, but just ask to keep debates focused on growing the SIM and making it an inviting vibrant environment - future focussed! CDS's best days are ahead of it! This is what CARE will be trying to do !

Apparently you [i:3194t0gy]legally[/i:3194t0gy] don't have to say the pool of people that are willing to serve in the RA if the faction is selected. Fine.

But because legally you don't have to, doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't!

I encourage all parties to let the voters publish their candidate pool! :D

==
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Post by Beathan »

Bromo --

I welcome you to the CDS community, although your choice of party is somewhat lamentable. ;-)

First, I am not opposed to openness and disclosure to the public. However, how information comes from a Party to the public really depends on the nature of the Party. The Simplicity Party does not speak for its members and does not guide or control its members' actions to try to muster them into collective action in support of a complicated agenda that most of them don't personally support. Therefore, I leave it to each member of the Simplicity Party to communicate their candidacy to the other citizens of the CDS. I have done so. Aliasi has done so. I am not sure that that the SP has other candidates -- but if any other person is running, I expect that they will make that fact known.

I tend to agree that the voters should be informed, by the PIO or the Dean, of who has announced their candidacy. This is for two reasons. First, only people who have communicated their candidacy to the Dean are truly candidates -- and announcements from sources other than the Dean may be in error. Second, I think that requiring Parties to speak for their members favors (inappropriately) Parties that follow a centralized power model (as CARE has historically done) as opposed to Parties that follow an individualized model (as the Simplicity Party has done).

Finally, I do not believe that I was making inappropriate person attacks in my post. I was rather using political science terms (central committee; totalitarian) advisedly and in their usual academic sense. If we cannot categorize our opponent's political methods using the terms of art designed for such categorization, we will be limited to banal, milquetoast, anemic language that is ill-calculated to achieve the kind of knowledge and exchange of ideas we need in proper political debate.

To understand where I am coming from, please reread the discussion of CARE's methods and tactics in the last election -- and the posts of Michel's inactivity while on the RA and his bullying proposals of stalking-horse legislation once he resigned.

I have never disagreed with CARE's general rhetoric or its glowing statements of principles. However, I have, from the beginning, noted that this rhetoric does not accord with the specific policy directions or centralized power commitments that CARE puts into practice. When rhetoric does not match practice, I see hypocrisy -- and I never hesitate to call out hypocrisy where I see it. Where you see a political attack, I see a straightforward and appropriate political assessment -- the kind of assessment that is necessary and proper in civil political discussion. Being nice is not the same as being civil -- i will be civil, I will not be nice.

Finally, I have, from the beginning of CARE, been hopeful that people of goodwill (and there are many such in CARE -- and I hope that you will prove to be one) who are attracted to CARE by its rhetoric and stated principles, will rescue CARE from its centralizing tendency, both within the Party and within the CDS through the Party. I continue to hope that CARE will reinvent itself in its own rhetorical image. However, at present, and contrary to the nature of politics in the CDS, CARE is set up as a political machine, on the Tammany Hall model, with Michel cast as Boss Tweed. A perusal of the excellent election statement, last edited by Salzie, will show that this model is one that the CDS specifically hopes to avoid. I hope that the CDS will continue succeeding in this regard.

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Post by Rose Springvale »

deleted because posted in anger.

Last edited by Rose Springvale on Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Beathan »

A few points of clarification (made impersonal) --

Why is Aliasi running?

I don't want to put words in Aliasi's mouth -- but I think Aliasi is running again because many people (myself included) have approached her and asked (cajoled, pleaded, begged) her to do it because we think the job takes a steady and easy hand -- a person who will not act just because she can, or just to be doing something, but only if action is truly necessary -- and then only insofar as it is necessary. We believe that government is best when it is least -- and far away.

Why is Claude resigning -- and how has he done as LRA?

Again -- to put words in another person's mouth -- but I think these observations are called for.

Claude is not a glad-hand politician. He is often hard to find inworld -- and has been for as long as I have been in the CDS. However, Claude is always present and active -- and extremely competent and organized -- exactly where the leader of the RA should be -- in the RA. I admit that he is an unusual politician in that he does not tend to socialize overmuch in world -- and when he does he is all business -- but the results have been good for the CDS. However, the results have not necessarily been good for Claude -- he is (understandably) exhausted and deserves some time off.

Generally --

There are two ways of thinking about and approaching the CDS project -- and both are right. However, both exist in tension with each other -- and this tension sometimes causes problems. Some people (Gwyn comes to mind) excel in both approaches. Others, and here I include myself, do not.

First, the CDS is a place in Secondlife -- and, like all places in Secondlife, it is a location for socializing, fun, activities, meetings, events. These things necessarily occur inworld -- and require that participants be inworld and engage each other inworld. This is right and proper -- and fun and wonderful -- and is the main reason why many people come to Secondlife in general, and the CDS in particular.

However, the CDS is also a political experiment. It is a sounding-board for ideas and theories and poilitical discussion. While these things can (and do) occur inworld, the inworld experience is not essential to this project. We can (and do) engage in many of these activities by personal email and on these forums, as well as inworld.

We need to recognize and respect that there are people who are drawn and committed to the inworld experience in itself (and that is good and proper). There are others who are drawn to the CDS for the political discussion and exchange, in and out of the world (and that is also good and proper). We need to be careful that we don't judge each other by standards that unfairly privilege one of these activities over the other -- but we also need to recognize and respect excellence in both spheres of action.

Beathan

Last edited by Beathan on Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Rose Springvale »

Beathan,

i'm going to use the "coolbox advice" and delete my post.
Please take yours down too as you totally missed my point.

That said, I'll talk to anyone who wants to talk, about these issues in world.

rose

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Theories of democratic governance

Post by michelmanen »

Beathan, given the fact that neither you nor anyone else knows if any other SP members besides you are running as SP candidates for the RA, and that the deadline for submission of each party's RA cadidates has long expired, please explain to me, under the theory of CDS governance you currently espouse (even if not outright endorse), what would happen if the SP received 80 % of the total votes in the next elections - entitling it to at least 5 RA seats? Who exactly would sit in the RA for the SP and how would such individuals be chosen?

Last edited by michelmanen on Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Beathan »

Rose --

My post contained things that need saying -- so I have modified, rather than removed it. I have also depersonalized it. I look forward to discussing things (any thing) with you inworld.

Michel --

The Constitution provides for that. Citizens vote for parties, not individual candidates. Party members vote for individual candidates. No individual needs to run for RA to serve in the RA. The purpose of the individual vote is to determine who will serve on the RA in the event that more Party members want the job than the Party has seats.

I may be the only RA candidate. If so, and the SP wins a seat, I will serve. If so, and the SP wins more than one seat, we will draw lots or otherwise draft someone to serve alongside me. In any case, given that the votes for the RA are not supposed to be personalized (but, on the contrary, our political experiment is supposed to be about ideas -- not personalities) -- personal politics is not only unncessary, it may be improper, in RA elections. This includes announcing candidates and selling candidates on their individual credentials. The key to CDS RA elections is platform -- all Parties must have (and all Parties do have) platforms. The SP platform continues to be for simple, minimal, unified government -- calculated to maximize freedom by minimizing control.

I think that the election for Chancellor may well be different. Personality matters more when a person is acting in an executive or judicial capacity (as opposed to a legislative one). The reason is that such actions are particularized to events -- not addressed to general principles and rule-making.

When we vote in RA elections -- we vote for Parties. Then the Party members vote for individual candidates. We do this by design. We do this for good reasons. One of those reasons is that we want to take personality out of legislative politics as much as we can.

Beathan

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CDS Theories of governance

Post by michelmanen »

Ah, I see. Very clear. So the answer to my question, in essence, is that if the SP receives 80% of the citizens' votes, and given that you are its only declared candidate, the other 4 (being a majority of the new RA) will be selected, [b:2rlfpd8z]after the election[/b:2rlfpd8z], by an [b:2rlfpd8z]as-of-yet unknown method[/b:2rlfpd8z] by the (currently) [b:2rlfpd8z]six members[/b:2rlfpd8z] of the SP faction. The conclusion is therefore, that in essence [b:2rlfpd8z]the majority of the RA members will be selected by six SP members in accordance with whatever method of selection they see fit at the time[/b:2rlfpd8z].

Your theory of democratic governance is fascinating indeed.... I'm glad you explained it so well.

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Post by Beathan »

Michel --

Yes, that is the Constitutional system in the CDS. The RA representatives are selected by the members of the Party, not the electorate at large. I am personally uncomfortable with that system -- but it is our system.

Notably, it makes little difference in this regard whether there are declared candidates or not. In either case, only Party members can vote for individuals for RA seats -- and then only to fill seats won by the Party.

I understand that electoral reform (there is a proposal by Patroklus for instance) is on the table for the next RA session. I hope that I will have the honor to work on this project. However, until amended, we are stuck with the Constitution we've got.

Of course -- your specific question assumes that the SP gets 80% of the vote. I don't think that is possible. It certainly is not likely. However, in any case, the SP representatives will support and stand for the SP platform. I urge the citizens of the CDS not to vote for me -- but to vote for simple, minimal and straight-forward government. In other words, I urge people to vote for the SP platform.

Beathan

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Post by Dnate Mars »

We vote for a platform, not a person. The theory is that it does not matter who from the party is serving in the RA, but the seats that the party has. It is the way it has always been, and unless you want to change the constitution, it will stay that way. I don't understand what the big deal actually is?

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