Guild Meeting Transcripts

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Jon Seattle
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Guild Meeting Transcripts

Post by Jon Seattle »

I have been able to track down the Guild meeting transcripts and will post them as a bunch as soon as I receive permission from all the people involved. With the additional two transcripts this will take just a little longer (I am still lacking permission from a couple of people who have been off line.) . Sorry for the delay.

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Patroklus Murakami
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Post by Patroklus Murakami »

Jon, if you think publication would help, why not just publish and be damned?

I think publication is likely to be in the public interest (daylight is the best disinfectant etc.) though that needs to be balanced against the risks of prolonging the dispute.

People attended a public meeting. It's best to get permissions first and then publish a transcript but, has anybody ever been reprimanded by LL for publishing a chat log from a public meeting? Prokofy Neva does it all the time on his blog, and from meetings with Lindens! (OK, maybe not the best example to follow, but you get my drift).

If seeing the transcripts of all three meetings would be in the public interest then why not seek forgiveness after the fact rather than seeking permision first? You may not be able to reach all the participants if they're on vacation and away from SL for a few weeks.

Jon Seattle
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Post by Jon Seattle »

Given the accusations, and that fact that I have always been very cautious about posting transcripts (it was one of the first things Sudane taught me when I joined the CDS) I thought I had better get everyone's permission. After a bit of IMing I now have that, so I am posting these transcripts.

1. None of these support Rose's accusations. I was not rude, and never shouted (in the SL "shout") kind of way. I did use a upper case word to get people's attention when I thought the discussion had gotten a little out of hand and off the agenda.

2. I made very very sure that everyone had a chance to voice their opinion.

3. I tried, in several different ways, to bring up my objections in this last meeting. In retrospect, I should have been much more forceful and clear. But remember, all I did, my supposed "crime" in this case was to bring this issue (without naming anyone's name) to the Guild forum for people to discuss openly.

4. You may fault my chairing or leadership style all you want. On many things I am likely to agree with you.

5. When we are talking about IP rights, we are [u:2db6uyqc]not[/u:2db6uyqc] talking about "ownership" in the Second Life sense. You can easily have an object in Second Life and not own the intellectual property rights involved. Its legal ownership that is at issue.

6. This has no direct connection to electoral politics. I intend to be quiet for now until the elections are over, but you will find that I will be every bit as concerned and vocal about this issue after the votes are counted. I would have been every bit as concerned had this arisen during a period when the elections were not underway. The core IP license issue is important to the survival of the Guild and, I think, the survival of the CDS as a representative democracy.

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Transcript of Guild Meeting, 15 July

Post by Jon Seattle »

(You: = Jon Seattle)

You: Lets wait about three minutes in case anyone else shows up
The Sojourner is Online
Rose Springvale: okay, but at 1 i'm out of here :)
Rose Springvale: er.. 11
Sudane Erato: do we expect anyone... specifically?
Rose Springvale: haven't talked to jamie, but he's online... let me ask
You: Ah, I was hoping Moon at least.. lets start then
Rose Springvale: no reply from jamie.
Jon Seattle waits for Rose to contact Jamie
You: I have one question and / or additon to the IP agreement draft.
Rose Springvale: ah, here he comes
Jamie Palisades: cheers
You: Good :)
Rose Springvale: hey Jamie :)
You: Hi Jamie,
Jamie Palisades: sorry, had some log in issues
Kate Miranda is Offline
Sudane Erato: hi :)
Dnate Mars: hello
Jamie Palisades: :)
Tab Scott is Offline
Rose Springvale: we just pulled up the license agreement for final discussion Jamie
Rose Springvale: Everyone has it, yes?
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: seems great to me
Jamie Palisades: ah good - are we not done w that last draft of yours?
Dnate Mars: which one?
Rose Springvale: marked draft 3, and dated 7/8/07
Dnate Mars: yep
You: Do we want to add any sentance saying that in case the Guild is unable to maintain backup copies of things, that the objects will be transfered to an AV selected by the government of the CDS.
You: Of course, said with better language :)
Jamie Palisades: er you could - but is that needed?
Rose Springvale: not sure that adds anything... with Guilda already specified
Jamie Palisades: contract already tells the artist we get to keep a copy as needed ...
Rose Springvale: just adds the Government level
You: Well, I worry that the Guild may not be here in ten or fifteen years :)
Rose Springvale: lol
Dnate Mars: we will be ;)
Sudane Erato: :))
You: lol, perhaps :D
Rose Springvale: i'll be in Rio
Sudane Erato: well... *I* will be! :))
Jamie Palisades: two diff levels - one is what you have to specify wit artist here -
You: Rose, Rio sounds like a lot of fun
Dnate Mars: the only thing I would be care of is the transfering for 0L... with the bots out there, we could get burned
Jamie Palisades: other is how Govt runs - which does not need to be in, or constrained by - this contract -
Rose Springvale: let me ask a practical question
Jamie Palisades: Dnate, need to transfers be sales?
You: Well, there are 'sales' and sales
Dnate Mars: no, there is no good way around it
Rose Springvale: as a builder, are you willing to commit to future governments?
Jamie Palisades: for stationaty objects, yes I guess -
Jamie Palisades: OK, let Rose get her point out, sorry
Rose Springvale: i think we need to deal with the world as we know it,otherwise we may be asking creative people to support things they may not in fact support
Rose Springvale: for example
Rose Springvale: what happens if the sim is sold?
Rose Springvale: or, if .. hmmm
Rose Springvale: i just get nervous adding that layer i guess
You: Sim owners have more power than you may think.. that is from a technical point of view
Dnate Mars: if a sim gets sold, I am going to guess it is because the CDS has failed
Dnate Mars: so, won't all the builds then belong to no one? therefore they can't be sold?
Rose Springvale: so as an artist, do you want to have an ongoing obligation to transfer rights?
Jamie Palisades: hmmmmm
Jamie Palisades: should not be that way Rose
Jamie Palisades: first sale should solve all probs in prepetuity
Rose Springvale: yes, i agree
Jamie Palisades: and that is the ONLY wat to not re-Ulrika
Jamie Palisades: *way
Sudane Erato: yeah
Jamie Palisades: so when we "take" it, we get 3 things
Jamie Palisades: (1) object, installed & xferred/sold to Guilda
Jamie Palisades: WITH full perms
Rose Springvale: where possible
Jamie Palisades: (2) backup copy - or we make one immediately, store "offsite"
Jamie Palisades: let's get back to that 'where poss"
You: Jamie, what is that second?
Jamie Palisades: and (3) right to make replacements/alterations (which we need) but NOT right to make dupes to sell (artist's protection)
You: The copy kept by the creator or by the guild?
Jamie Palisades: guild
Sudane Erato: if the object has Full Perms
You: Hmmm.. how can that work? Not Guilda's copy?
Sudane Erato: many of those terms are unenforceable
Tab Scott is Online
Jamie Palisades: Jon, it;s an axiom of all contrcat drafting by lawyers - well, competent ones - that it has to work even if your other party goes of his meds the day after you sign and will not cooeration further
Jamie Palisades: :)
Jamie Palisades: well let's stay with backup here for a sec
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jamie Palisades: Jon the artist builds us a fountain
You: Okay
Jamie Palisades: he installs it on Erato Plaza
You: And guilda gets a copy.. that I understand
Sudane Erato: a Full Perms copy
You: yes
Jamie Palisades: he xfers it to Guida in some way so that Dnate's reasonably happy it can;t be swooped by a pirate bot
Jamie Palisades: .. ok
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: lol, sure
Jamie Palisades: so Jon also, as part of deal, has sent to Guilda's inventory a dupe copy
You: Yes.
Jamie Palisades: (work out where it stays later)
Ranma Tardis is Online
You: I thought you ment one in addition to guilda's
Sudane Erato: Guilda has the ability to make as many copies as she wants
You: yes
Jamie Palisades: so when Jon gopes to work for the Bush administration the next day, moves to Iraq to help take over the gov't and joines the Republbian Party ./..
Jamie Palisades: ... he doesn;t answer out phone calls anywmore ...
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: Guilda becomes the "owner" in SL terms
Jamie Palisades: but do we care?
Jamie Palisades: yes
Rose Springvale smiles
Jamie Palisades: jon is protected because (a) we have promised not to make 20 (or even one) more installed copy
Jamie Palisades: so we can;t go create 20 more CDS sims wiht his stuff without his promise or else we have violated contrtact
You: Very funny.
Sudane Erato: not much protection there for the artist
Jamie Palisades: but we are protected becuz we can fix/replace fountain
Jamie Palisades: you think, Su?
Dnate Mars: I guess they have to trust us... there is nothing else that can be done
You: But what I am worried about is that Guilda is a Jon alt.. even though Sudane and Moon have passwords as well
Sudane Erato: well, I guess the protection is CDS law
Jamie Palisades: if our contract says "CDS only can install one & maintain replace it"
Jamie Palisades: yes
Jamie Palisades: AND
Dnate Mars: if they find out we didn't use them correctly, they could file a DMCA takedown notice
Sudane Erato: yes
Jamie Palisades: :) If I was REALLY evil I bet I could even get a copyrigth suit into court, as that artist
You: Jon should be required to transfer the objects if Guilda were to go away for any reason..
Jamie Palisades: real court
Jamie Palisades: hn\mmm not sure Jon
Jamie Palisades: you can ask - but we should not assume "Jon" will cmoply - or even be around
Dnate Mars: no, moon just changes the password on guilda
Jamie Palisades: accounts close
Jamie Palisades: ALSO
Jamie Palisades: hvaiung our CDS master backup copy on Guilda's inv = the master asset server
Jamie Palisades: whioch is, pardon me, a crap place to keep things, from my PoV as a computer security guy
You: Dante, that would not work as Guilda is still Jon's alt -- you see Jon is at some level responsible for Guilda's activities
Dnate Mars: and how can we get around using the asset server of LL?
Rose Springvale: isn't there a way to store inventory in world,?
Jamie Palisades: woudl rather see it in Guilda's Inv AND an inv-storage box, or some WH land
Moon Adamant is Online
Rose Springvale: yes
Rose Springvale: WH?
Jamie Palisades: there sare several Rose, amnd you and I probably know the LEAST in this room :)
Jamie Palisades: warehouse
Rose Springvale: k
Dnate Mars: I guess you just need 1 prim hidden somewhere
Rose Springvale: i agree i know the least :)
Rose Springvale: i bought a box, but havne' used it
Sudane Erato: well, access to that prim still depends on the owner of the prim
Jamie Palisades: Rose, the Schloss (shudder) does not live on the master asset server
You: Yes
Jamie Palisades: lives on NSF's sim server
Rose Springvale: hmm
Rose Springvale: okay
Jamie Palisades: :) think of it like a Seagate backup drive
Rose Springvale: because it isn't in anyone's inventory
You: jamie, scary thought.
Sudane Erato: hmmmm
Jamie Palisades: but my poiint here is, that's OUR problem not artist's problem
Jamie Palisades: I agree Jon
Dnate Mars: hi moon!
Jamie Palisades: I have but few things I can about - but ther's all multiply stored, in a big way ... but we digress
Moon Adamant: hi everyone!
Jamie Palisades: Hi moon
Jon Seattle hugs Moon
Rose Springvale: so... does that mean we need to change language or no?
Jamie Palisades: so to your original point 2 -
Jamie Palisades: no I do not think so:
Dnate Mars: but in the end, it is still owned by Guilda
Jamie Palisades: artist can see we will not install more than 1 "production copy"
Jamie Palisades: and can get us in trouble, or embarrass us, if we do otherwise
You: Moon, we are discussing what happens to backups if Guilda where to go away, or the Guild were to go out of business in the distance future.
Moon Adamant: hmmm, they would be delivered to the RA
Jamie Palisades whispers: .. I'm tired of trying to find a tie that matches this shirt ...
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: perhaps teh contract should include that provision~
You: Ah, the question I had is should this agreement say that, or could it just be deliverd to the RA without any change.
Ranma Tardis is Online
Rose Springvale: ah jamie, dont' worry so much about matching :) live a little
Moon Adamant: well, the contract is done between the maker and the CDS
Jamie Palisades: oh listen to you ms color me coordinated
Jamie Palisades: sorry
Moon Adamant: teh CDS is hmmm represented by its representatives
You: As I understand it the current contract is between the maker and guild
Rose Springvale: no, the contract is between the builder and the new guild
Moon Adamant: yes, but because the New Guild has been delegated into that taks by the RA
Rose Springvale: as an ngo, the guild has some level of credibility that the RA from time to time does not have, imho
Moon Adamant: what we need is an Act by the RA clearly stating that
Jamie Palisades: I agree Moon -think we ended up there, last mtg
Jamie Palisades: it;s for artist's protection
Moon Adamant: and teh contract should then say that, according to Act XXX, the Guils is mandated by teh RA to establish this contract
Rose Springvale: hmm
You: Yes, I agree. And also we need to inform the maker, I suppose, that property will be transfered to the CDS should the guild no longer be able to hold it.
Dnate Mars: yep, be the next RA meeting isn't for at least a 2 weeks
Moon Adamant: more time to prepare the bill :)
Dnate Mars: yep
You: yes
Rose Springvale: the problem then becomes that each RA member will have to understand and ... ugh
Jamie Palisades: well, we already figured out that we as Guild are happy to have artist proceed on current terms
Jamie Palisades: so
Jamie Palisades: why not go with this ... get a bill starte din RA .. and see if the actual artists insist on more?
Rose Springvale: so are we saying we don't have the authority to make a contract?
Moon Adamant: no, we do have it
Moon Adamant: but we need the mandate
Rose Springvale: so what is the point?
Jamie Palisades: well let's make one then :)
Rose Springvale: ah, well
Moon Adamant: the point is
You: we do have, but I could see the RA getting mad at having its toes stepped on..
Moon Adamant: that if you are an artist, make a contract with Guild
Moon Adamant: then Guild disappears and transfers conetent to the CDS
You: For example, say an artist G decided not to make this contract with the Guild, but instead wanted a contract with the CDS directly
Moon Adamant: the artist can contest that transfer in the terms of a hidden or unknown relation between the guild and teh CDS that wasn't established in teh contract
You: that could cause quite a bit of confusion
Moon Adamant: ah, that is not the most dangerous point
Rose Springvale: i thought the point of this was to make it clean and simple
Rose Springvale: we can come up with thousands of scenarios of what is missing and won't work, and i submit that is why there is nothing i nplace today
You: Rose, I agree.. but I am a bit worried now about how effective
Moon Adamant: becaus eteh CDS - through a RA act- can establish a proxy in any of its citizens
Rose Springvale: i know it doest' sound like a very legal approach, but i think we need to exercise some common sense
Rose Springvale: sigh
Moon Adamant: so what do you suggest?
Rose Springvale: if we try to do what you are suggesting, we will repeat the entire process we've spent that last month working on, and get even more concerns, and more complications.
Rose Springvale: i think we take this contract, post it, and ask for any further input
Rose Springvale: if the issue is raised that we dont' have authority
Rose Springvale: then .. turn it over to Beathan lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Dnate Mars: well, it kind of already has been raise
Rose Springvale: let him simplify :)
Rose Springvale: okay. well
Moon Adamant: hmmm, we'd be handing the hot potato to the RA lol
Rose Springvale: isn't that what they signed up for?
You: Well, the RA should have fun with a hot potatoe..
Eloise Pasteur is Online
Sudane Erato: well, we are a lot further along than we were
Sudane Erato: because, indeed, we do have a proposal
Moon Adamant: yes
You: yes
Moon Adamant: and it's a good proposal
Sudane Erato: i agree
You: Quite a good I think
Dnate Mars: I agree
You: I am just trying to figure out how to move forward
You: We could post it in the forums, but by fear is that we would be facred with several months of debate :D
You: *my
Rose Springvale: i think that the legal work is done then, and the politicing is up to our leadership :)
Sudane Erato: cop out! :)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: i agree with that
Rose Springvale: well, i'm ready to get a list of builders and go have conversations
Moon Adamant: we should get immediately to the rA
Moon Adamant: get it*
Rose Springvale: i believe in asking forgiveness instead of permission whne it comes to getting things done though, so ...
Moon Adamant: lol
Moon Adamant: yes
You: I suspect we will get in trouble if we do not go to the RA with a proposal.. it will look as if we are upserping their rights.
Sudane Erato: :)
Moon Adamant: but what i mean is
You: It the trouble worth it?
Moon Adamant: we don't just bang the contract on teh rA table
Moon Adamant: and say, here it is, approve it
Moon Adamant: it needs some sort of framing
Sudane Erato: a cover sheet?
Jamie Palisades: wel there is "please understand an approve this in your wisdom when you feel like it, once you are up to speed"
Moon Adamant: and that framing is the act that defines the mandate of the guild in this aspect
Moon Adamant: and lol sudane
Jamie Palisades: .. and then there is "we did this as authorized, please ratify, bulldozers are on site"
Rose Springvale: or
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jamie Palisades: I like the latter
You: Okay, I want to get a poll of where we are with this. Lets go around the room and each person say what they think should be the implementation plan. RA first or not? Sign up artists now, or not? Forums now or not?
Rose Springvale: We've worked for months trying to avoid the disaster of ulrika as we move forward, and think this give us the room to work
You: Let me call names
You: Sudane? You first
Sudane Erato: :)
Sudane Erato: well, i think the only clarification is that the New guild has the mandate to enter into contracts with artists....
Sudane Erato: if we already have that
Sudane Erato: then nothing further need be done
Sudane Erato: if nbot, we should propose to add it to our charter
You: Do you think we have that mandate?
Sudane Erato: sorry... I'm not up to date on our charter
You: Ah, it says nothing directly about contracts or ownership of work.
You: DNate, your turn
You: lol, I think we will have to return to him
You: Moon?
You: Moon, please say what you think should be the implementation plan. RA first or not? Sign up artists now, or not? Forums now or not?
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: well, we do clearly need a mandate by the RA
Moon Adamant: otherwise, the contract can be argued
Moon Adamant: what do you mean by signing artists up now?
You: So go to the RA first? As a charter revision?
Moon Adamant: no need to review our chareter
Moon Adamant: it can be a detached Act
You: Rose was going to go to makers an ask them to agree..
Rose Springvale: lol
Moon Adamant: well, i do understand Rose's pov
Moon Adamant: this can be argued and argued in RA
Moon Adamant: THOUGH
You: yes, its a problem..
Moon Adamant: RA can revoke teh proxy at any time... so i ddon't know why should they argue it much
You: Rose? Your turn.
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: frankly, i'm not sure why we've spent so much time on this if we don't have the authorization to contract. And all i was trying to do was help heal a wound that has been around as long as i've been involved in CDS. To take this to the RA now will only be one more thing for peopel to pontificate about, and i believe it will not ever be resolved.
You: (While Dnate is away I am very tempted to volunteer him for something :D )
Rose Springvale: i have other things to do besides approach artists, and offered to do so only because i'm fairly neutral as far as my position in the sims.
Moon Adamant: Rose, it is not a question of authorization or lack of authorization
Moon Adamant: the question is that the Guild - as regards this matter - doesn't have a clear standing
Moon Adamant: we can use the contract as it is for any guild work
Moon Adamant: but what happens with former content?
Rose Springvale: not sure how it differs Moon
You: Jamie, your turn
Jamie Palisades: ok - did I hear Rose vote for "go now"? Just wanted to be sure I heard right
Rose Springvale: rose abstains
You: Jamie, how should we proceed?
Jamie Palisades: My view? first, RA = get forgiveness not ANOTHER permission. Second, sign up now, yes, and be clear: tell 'em we are getting ratifying act from new RA too, as extra belt & suspender thing. (That's 2 of 3 -- I think giving a new RA another bite at the apple sets the wrong tone generally, if there is to be an EFFECTIVE Guild. WAAY too many decisions re-re-re-consulted in CDS, sorry: signal to noise ratio is a problem. Let's not make it worse, if this Guild project is to be worth investing time in) But: Forums? didn't understand 3rd Q Jon
Moon Adamant: there is another way to do this
Moon Adamant: but it is less organized
Jamie Palisades: *sigh*
Jamie Palisades: we're meandering mr chairman
Moon Adamant: the contract has a provision stating that the current laws in teh CDS apply
You: Ah, I have a definite plan for making this deicison, but I want to make sure everyone has a say
Moon Adamant: and that can include a whole spectrum of relations between teh Guild and the CDS
Pokey Edelman is Online
You: Yes, it could
You: Lets do the following. First I want us to try for concensus on Rose's proposal and if that fails go to a vote. Then I want to consider the option of the guild proposing this to the RA.
Rose Springvale: i'm a bit unclear on what "rose's proposal" is as you see it Jon
You: As I understand Rose's proposal (please correct me if wrong), 1. We adopt the IP agreement if written, and 2. We approach builders and as them to sign it. We wait for the RA to react or not as they see fit. Is that fair?
Rose Springvale: no.. not exactly
Rose Springvale: first, if there are changes that need to be made to the contract, by all means let's make them.
You: *as written - typo
Rose Springvale: Second.. if the RA is not on board with a solution to the past issue, then we can easily just drop that. But third,
Rose Springvale: as i read the forum
Rose Springvale: we do have authority to proceed with the plan for the new sim
Rose Springvale: an dfor that, getting agreement up front with anyone we work with seems prudent
Moon Adamant: yes, that was what i was saying about teh current IP working for any future guild work
Moon Adamant: starting from this day on
Moon Adamant: but my issue here is also the existing content
You: Okay, lets do this: I propose that we use the IP agreement as written for all new guild work on the new sim or other projects.
Sudane Erato: maybe we can't solve the existing content
Jamie Palisades wonders if a pregnant issue in the room is changing the deal as to completed past work
You: Please say "yes" or "object" to the proposal
You: says yes
Sudane Erato: the proposal is Rose's document?
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Yes.
Moon Adamant: yes, of course
Rose Springvale: legitimately it is ALL of our document.
Sudane Erato: haha... yes, but you drafted it :)
You: Mainly Rose's work with Jamie's and others input.
Rose Springvale: except for the parts Jamie drafted :)
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: ok :)
Sudane Erato: my "shorthand" :)
You: Jamie, yes or object?
The Sojourner is Offline
Jamie Palisades: yes
You: And this is to Dnate: please wake up if you can :D
Jamie Palisades: and I want to get back to old stuff after this vote
Rose Springvale: and i'm about at the end of my time lol
Rose Springvale: already ten past
Sudane Erato: Dnate said before that he liked the document
You: Good, then I take it we reached consensus on that. Please say yes if I may take a transcript and distribute it to members in this room.
Sudane Erato: so we should assume his "yes"
Jamie Palisades: yes
Moon Adamant: yes
Rose Springvale: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Good! We have to talk more about what to do about past projects, but lets do that next time. I have one more very brief issue.
You: I'd like to start organizaing builders to start designing the alps landscape and buildings. I've been gathering links to snapshots.
Rose Springvale: the photos you posted in the forum were awesome Jon
Sudane Erato: yes...
You: I would like permission to use the land the guild owns in CN for this purpose. Ah, I meant photos of the acutal alps :)
Sudane Erato: sure!
Rose Springvale: lol, i have a file of some too, i'll see if i can find them and send them to you
You: Absolutly! if internet links, perhaps even post some in the planning formum. :)
You: In any case I am going to organize a weekly meeting of people to start doing actual work using that plot.
Jamie Palisades: past issues = fair enough. More to chat about there. Use the 'test' land = absolutrely yes. and that was a great idea Jon
Rose Springvale: okay, and perhaps other sights in the grid that might be inspiring?
You: The main thing, I think, since this proposal is Rose's is to get feedback on what we design as we go
You: Yes! those too.
Coene Soyuz is Online
Rose Springvale: may i say something?
Rose Springvale: as far as design is concerned...
Rose Springvale: i'm NOT a builder... i know that surprises everyone here
You: Also I will be making an initial draft of a RAW file of the terrain. I was wondering, Sudane, if I might have a RAW file of CN so I can match up the edges? I have NFS's I think.
Sudane Erato: I can get one
You: Cool, thanks much!
You: Rose, its no problem. What we need most is your vision, and eye to keep us on track
You: I think it is a great project and should be a lot of fun for builders
Jamie Palisades: hm- Jon - did the vote you ran decide only to use the agreement, or did it ALSO decide whether to proceed before talking to RA again?
Rose Springvale: it' only applies going forward Jamie
You: Ah, Jamie, we decided just to use the agreement for new work. Other issues are still up in the air :D
Moon Adamant: what we can do
Moon Adamant: is to ascertain too problematic issues
Jamie Palisades: so Guild cannot proceed to engage builders yet? T or F
Dnate Mars is Offline
Moon Adamant: and get new work done for those problematic issues
You: One appoach may be to have a meeting with at least the CDS builders we know, mainly CN but also of NFS as much as we still have contact
Michel Manen: hello all sorry to come just at the tail end
Rose Springvale: hi michel
Moon Adamant: hi Michel :)
You: Hi Michel
Sudane Erato: hi :)
Rose Springvale: Jon... as a guild project...
You: We can engage builders for any new projects, yes
Rose Springvale: and as you are coralling people to begin work, why not just hand it out to anyone who wants to work? that will flesh out the issues, yes?
You: Yes, we will do that.
Jamie Palisades: and use the contract?> as of today?
You: Yes
Jamie Palisades: ok thx, I may just be slow of mind here on a weekend
You: Just not for work that was finished in the past.. we still have to resolve that.
Rose Springvale: i frankly don't want to deal with debates in three months when people start getting testy over long work hours.
Rose Springvale: brb
Jamie Palisades: hm
Sudane Erato: hehe... testy!!?? :)
Jamie Palisades: Jon you hsould anticipate that I will suggest (rudely) that the best interests of CDS are served by addressing past contract issues with any future builders, as a condition of their future work
Sudane Erato: :)
Sudane Erato: rudely indeed :)
Jamie Palisades: and you should anticipate that I am not as naive as I look about the complicated tangle of interests there, granting the good will on all sides :)
Jamie Palisades: of course the guild is free to ginore that friendly suggestion, too
You: Jamie, you can suggest that but I doubt I have the authority to untangle the mess that would result.
Jamie Palisades: :) well that's why I mentioned it. We are a community. Social ecology actually DOES matter -
Rose Springvale: i'm naive i guess, i don't quite understand
Moon Adamant: there isn't anything to understand
Jamie Palisades: - and it;s OK to decide as a group tha THIS value is MORE important that perfect protection!
Jamie Palisades: seriously! ahem
Moon Adamant: saving teh fact that most of our content isn't really owned by teh community
Michel Manen: perfect protection? smiles
You: As I understand it Jamie was suggesting that any builder who wants to work on new projects sign the agreement over past builds.
Rose Springvale: and that is a problem?
Moon Adamant: sure it is
Rose Springvale: why?
You: yup
Moon Adamant: what is stopping me
Jamie Palisades: That woudl be one solution. But! if CDS wants to accept some holes in its current protection of past builds that really IS an acceptable outcome
Moon Adamant: from removing my two bridges in NFS?
Jamie Palisades: :) exactly
Jamie Palisades: we could find that some of our members want to take their marbles and go home ....
Rose Springvale: the whole point was to determine what would be needed to address that issue
Jamie Palisades: has happened before after all
Rose Springvale: so... is it money?
Rose Springvale: or is it pride?
Rose Springvale: why cant' the issue be resolved?
Moon Adamant: well
Jamie Palisades: Moon, better to struggle htrough and talk about that stuff than leave it hang
Moon Adamant: it can't be resolved for several reasons
Moon Adamant: or better, hasn't been resolved
Moon Adamant: because of
Moon Adamant: lack of interest
You: Right now I really do not want to turn away any good builders who want to contribute.
Moon Adamant: lack of a formal agrrement template
Moon Adamant: lack of a formal entity who would legitimately hold the content
Rose Springvale: :: puzzled look::
Jamie Palisades: Let me candid - among friends. As creative builders, you are in a room full of peoplel who app[reciate you, want you to be protected and even are fond of you
You: It will be hard enough to get people willing and trained to make Alps an excllent build, and I do intend that it be.
Jamie Palisades: so if a solution doesn;t work well for you - well heck it might not satisfy other new builders either
You: brb
Sudane Erato: yes, I'm puzzled too
Moon Adamant: Jamie
Sudane Erato: i think we could make a list of past builders
Jamie Palisades: it woudl be optimal if we can understand what woudl make existing creatyive slike Moon sufficiently comfortable
Moon Adamant: i have been trying for the last year
Sudane Erato: and each would present a diff issue
Moon Adamant: to sell teh two bridges here in NFS for 1L each to teh CDS
Moon Adamant: of course that it is not ME
Moon Adamant: i am not removing them
Jamie Palisades: Like Oakland, eh? No "there there"
Moon Adamant: but i think that the community doesn't have any security as to the fact that i am not removing them
Moon Adamant: besides my personal word
Jamie Palisades: The personal integrity and generosity of the peopl in this room is BEYOND question
Jamie Palisades: and yesh, heh, we have been lucky that this happens to be true
Moon Adamant: yes, but it couldn't be true lol
Moon Adamant: and in one famous occasion, it proved not true :)
Michel Manen: well when i had my buildings done the builders always transferred to me at the end... im sorry but for builders who have no problem to transfer.. where is the issue?
Sudane Erato: yes, and wasn't once in the past
Rose Springvale: so Moon, let me understand
Moon Adamant: ah Michel, that is the third issue i mentioned
Moon Adamant: lack of an entity who would do that legitimately
Michel Manen: ah sorry i came very lte i know
Michel Manen: indeed
Rose Springvale: are you saying that if the CDS RA approves this contract as granting authority to the guild, then you could transfer you bridges to Guilda and all woudl be fine?
Moon Adamant: lol
Rose Springvale: or am i still missing something?
Moon Adamant: that isn't even the point
Moon Adamant: the point is... please tell me to WHOM i transfer it :)
Rose Springvale: ah, easy! guilda :)
Moon Adamant: i am longing to transfer it!~
You: I suspect this is too complex for us to resolve it at this meeting. I am very glad we have approaved a way forward, but lets talk more on this next week.
Moon Adamant: ah, but now you see i am an easy person
Rose Springvale: nooooo
Rose Springvale: lol
Jamie Palisades: Jon's being tolerant of this but he did suggest we hold it over for next time
Rose Springvale: but this is the fourth week
Rose Springvale: it's driving me crazy lol
Jamie Palisades: Rose dear
Jamie Palisades: new work - contract - done - a go
Jamie Palisades: odl work - needs more chat
Moon Adamant: honestly, i could transfer the bridges to Pope Benedict XVI if the CDS told me he was the proxy of teh CDS
Jamie Palisades: prob?
Jamie Palisades: oh dear
Rose Springvale: what it needs is ... attention :)
You: Rose, we have approaved the IP agreement for all future work. Certainly that is something.
Moon Adamant: but would everyone?
Sudane Erato: no... not the POPE!
Rose Springvale: my point is
Rose Springvale: that if everyone wont', lets find out why, what it will take
Rose Springvale: let's not keep discussing in committee
Moon Adamant: people could say ' i don't know who this guild is... they didn't exist at the time, my dealings were all with the RA (say)... where is it written that you have the authority to demand from me a full righst copy?'
Jamie Palisades thinks that, with all these active imminent chancellors, we need a more impressive title for Rudeen .. and heh now we have one
Moon Adamant: but perhaps that can be solved in another way
Michel Manen: lol jamie
Rose Springvale: if someone still feels negative, we can't anticipate that problem by guessing... my sense is that most people want to move forward, and if there is bad feeling from old work, and we move ahead with a new sim, we are not respecting the work that has gone on before
Jamie Palisades: Rose, do you want to hold up new work until this old work issue is resolved?
Moon Adamant: call teh former builders, ask thm if they are willing to transfer content to Guilda... if not, bunk the content and replace it for new guild-contracted content
Rose Springvale: i thinks so Jamie
Moon Adamant: emotionally
Michel Manen: hmm
Jamie Palisades: OK well there's a topic for next week
You: Rose, we have no way or forcing builders to hand over their work to an organization that did not exist at the time. This is tricky.
Jamie Palisades: I don'lt think so FWIW
Moon Adamant: i think that the work so very well done by a lot of people DESERVES to have its situation cleared
Rose Springvale: i'm not suggesting we try to force anything
Michel Manen: yes indeed
Jamie Palisades: I agree Moon but how we do it sensitively and w/ a backup plan? siiigh
Rose Springvale: that's my point Moon
Rose Springvale: that's why you use me
Rose Springvale: you let me go to the people
Rose Springvale: with the contract and say
Rose Springvale: we want to handle the situation
You: STOP
Rose Springvale: we dont' want you to feel like we haven't heard you
Rose Springvale: what do we need. ..stop?
You: STOP, we have gone on in the agenda and are scheduding this discussion for next week
Jamie Palisades: :) conversationally, BTW, the nice woman who is working on the Schloss here today - contract? No contract?
Ranma Tardis is Online
You: I proposed that this meeting be adjourned
You: Any objections?
Jamie Palisades: Happy to adjourn
Moon Adamant: none
You: This meeting is adjouned, thank you everyone
Sudane Erato: thx all :)
Sudane Erato: must run
Moon Adamant: thanks everyone
Jamie Palisades: Thank you for facilitating Jon
You: Thank you.
You: I am sure we will resolve this soon.
You: See you all, thanks and bye
Rose Springvale: wow.
Jamie Palisades: Mon, thanks so much for being candid & clear about what things we need to solve -
Moon Adamant: thanks for chairing Jon
Moon Adamant: oh Jamie, you see
Jamie Palisades: we just cannot leave our artists, past of future, hanging. It's not good behavior

Jon Seattle
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:18 am

Transcript of Guild Meeting, 8 July

Post by Jon Seattle »

(You: = Jon Seattle)

Jon Seattle pulls up the agenda
Moon Adamant: wb :)
Rose Springvale: yes, agenda.. i love agendas :)
Rose Springvale: lists too :)
You: . Continuation of progress towards implementing the Alps sim. 2. Intellectual property agreement for building and script work on CDS public projects. Compensation for work when needed. 3. Proceeds from the Ball auction. 3. Guild treasury and handling tier payments for Guild property Introducing Guilda Dollinger, our new accounting alt. 4. NFS School and citizen education programs
You: (missing the number 1. at the beginning)
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Rose Springvale: we'll forgive you
You: We have to hope that the RA will be able to meet today -- they lacked a quarum last Sunday
Rose Springvale: sigh
Rose Springvale: shall we overthrow the government? :)
Rose Springvale feels rebellious today :)
You: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: we seem to be one of the organizations that is doing stuff.. no reason to I can see to halt :)
Jamie Palisades: Rose. Sigh. I can just see you in gold braid and camo with a Kalishnikov, announcing a junta
Jamie Palisades: spare me
Moon Adamant: lol, yes
Rose Springvale: yeah yeah, well your fantasy babe
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: jamie, let me give you my notecard draft agreement
You: Rose, any comments on the Alps project? We should get the planning group together to start dealing with the technical issues
Rose Springvale: one sec...let me give this to jamie so he can be up to speed too
You: Okay :)
Jamie Palisades: got it
Rose Springvale: okay
Moon Adamant: hi Ludo :)
You: Hi Ludo
Ludo Merit: Nice school!
Rose Springvale: hi Ludo :0
Moon Adamant: indeed!
You: Sudane's work.. it is a wonderful build
Moon Adamant: this is teh nicest building in NFS :)
Jon Seattle agrees with Moon
Rose Springvale: its fantastic
Rose Springvale: okay
Rose Springvale: as far as the sim...
Sudane Erato: ty :)
Rose Springvale: I've really done nothing, awaiting some word that the RA is going to support the project, but i did clear the land that is across from the guild property
Rose Springvale: in CN... so if we want to bring the rivers together, there are no houses in the way
Rose Springvale: Michel and i traded lots so we could use the prims for the emporium, so it made sense that way too
You: Yes, I was thinking we could start developing that guild plot in CN, it really needs it!
Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to go play with rivers... both lots can be used
Sudane Erato: hehe
Jamie Palisades: I gather that all you need to start terraforming and hiring builders is for the guvmint to buy the island and plunk it down?
Sudane Erato: lets get the new sim in there first...
Sudane Erato: before we play with rivers :)
Rose Springvale: well,
Sudane Erato: so that they actually relate
Rose Springvale: okay, but i hate seeing empty land :)
You: Jamie, we generally try for free vonunteer builders first.. or have in the past
Moon Adamant: but we now have the tools to get a license of content done correctly, that's point 2
You: Yes, very important.
Jamie Palisades: :) fair enough - my Q stands then, minus the word "hire"
You: Well, I would also like to start playing with the landscape using RAW files a bit.
Rose Springvale: good :)
Rose Springvale: now you are talking that technical language :)
Rose Springvale: i can safely just nod my head
Ludo Merit: Oh, I wish I could make RAW files
You: Yes, just molding the terrain in a rough way without the sim to see how it will look and work :)
Rose Springvale: so you can make a map and put it on that guild lot for us to look at :)
You: Indeed
Sudane Erato: yes
Ludo Merit: Which sim is the guild lot in?
Moon Adamant: Ludo, you'r ein a mac? try the Backhoe modeller
You: Well, we will see what the RA does this afternoon.. anything else before we go on to the IP agreement?
Rose Springvale: in CN Ludo
Rose Springvale: next to my office
Rose Springvale: on the edge of the sim
You: Ludo, CN on the edge, south
Rose Springvale: i don't have anything else on that issue
Jamie Palisades: hmmm I wonder if scuptie tech now makes scale models .easy ..eh, tangent, never mind
Jamie Palisades: well Ido Rose
Rose Springvale: k
You: Rose and Moon made up a dreaft IP agreement for builders who work on Guild projects.. it is really good..
Jamie Palisades: :) back t my question :) what incomplete events must cocur, by whose hand, before a raw sim island actually plunks down?
Sudane Erato: yes... it looks great to me
Sudane Erato: oh
Rose Springvale: Jamie, the Ra has to approve, then we have to buy it
Sudane Erato: I guess I must order it
Rose Springvale: do we need to address financing ?
Moon Adamant: yes
You: Ah, Jamie, the RA approves, we raise (borrow) the needed additional funds, and the buy the island
Moon Adamant: the RA must approve the plan and teh budget
Moon Adamant: and btw, the name of it
Sudane Erato: yes
Rose Springvale: the RA has to get 3 people there first though
Sudane Erato: haha... yes, the name
You: Sudane wrote a budget that looks good
Moon Adamant: and then it issues an act to buy the island
Jamie Palisades: So it;s held up pending RAquorum + volitional motion (small smile) ?
Moon Adamant: we actually had the same problem with CN
Sudane Erato: a volitional motion?
You: hm?
Sudane Erato: what's that? :)
Moon Adamant: the second sim was delayed approval because of insufficient quorum in teh RA... two of the older parties went void
Jamie Palisades: bility to act consciously" - "volition"
Jamie Palisades: :)
You: Makes me wonder about involitional motion
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: hehehe
Rose Springvale pokes jamie
Rose Springvale: behave lol
You: Anyway, back to the IP agreement?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: lets make sure jamie is satisfied
Rose Springvale: how does the borrowing work btw?
Sudane Erato: well, for the last one
Sudane Erato: I published a proposal...
You: Ah, Sudane did a wonderful job last time..
Sudane Erato: giving all the details of how it would work
Sudane Erato: and then, when that was approved...
Sudane Erato: we just did it...
Rose Springvale: lol. sounds good
Sudane Erato: rasied a lot more $$ than we needed
You: we borrow from people we know (mainly citizens) willing to lend funds for the project.
Rose Springvale: k
Sudane Erato: but I argued that we should accept it
Sudane Erato: even tho the interest was increased
Sudane Erato: because it demosntsrated our creditworthiness
Jamie Palisades: sounds sensible
Jamie Palisades: Rose, back to the agreement?
Sudane Erato: btw... my proposal this time...
You: And this time we have even less to borrow, but a higher longer-term commitment
Sudane Erato: only discussed land acquisition cosyts
You: Tier, the monthly payment is also an issue..
Sudane Erato: oh yes!
Sudane Erato: a big issue
Rose Springvale: 295 month?
Sudane Erato: this this sim will have attached a much diff monthly fee
You: Jamie, also we don't want the new land to remain idle for long, so we need to be ready to build it out quickly
Sudane Erato: yes
Jamie Palisades: But only the 'carry cost' until fully sold and a reserve banked, no?
Sudane Erato: well...
Sudane Erato: the tier is generated from the "taxes" we pay
Sudane Erato: the issue is should residents on this sim
Sudane Erato: pay the higher amount... that other sim residents don't have to pay
Sudane Erato: or should it be spread eqyally
Sudane Erato: 295 is VERY diff than 195/month
Jamie Palisades: :) If CDS really federated ? (Seems east to me to answer , heh) Also, land pricing is SO different now - seems like a BIG part of your spreadsheet jockying would be setting the orig pricing for the one-time sale
Rose Springvale: yes... and if so... i still think there is an issue of upgrading the sims
Jamie Palisades: east>easy
Sudane Erato: I feel the opposite
You: Its an interesting question. There is also a difference in the server it runs on, making things even more complicted
Sudane Erato: the big part is in the monthly fees
Rose Springvale: and after the ball,i'm VERY in favor of upgrading NFS
Sudane Erato: the up front purchase is soon absorbed by the resident purchases
Rose Springvale: though i know the tier issue is a big deal to many citizens
Jamie Palisades: hmm Jon they take such care to associate related islands - may be worth confirming what it takes to get the the lot of them onto one server
You: Ah, Rose, yes, a good example.. I noticed time delation going down to 20% at times.. I was impressed :)
Sudane Erato: Rose, you mean the amount that each person must pay?
Rose Springvale: jon... whatever the heck time delation is... sudane... yes
You: Jamie, not sure what that would involve.. but we can ask
Sudane Erato: we are actually rather low, compared to SL in general
Rose Springvale: yes we are
Moon Adamant: yup
Rose Springvale: i'm willing to absorb an increase in tier on my land, but i know that many people are stretched
Sudane Erato: i see
Moon Adamant: i was just checking an ad in Slex
Ludo Merit: Upgrading does cost extra
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: 8800 L$ per 800 prims on rentals
Moon Adamant: starting at, you see....
You: In any case, we will have to do a study and propose land rental rates as we did with CN, but that can come down the road. The main thing is that Sudane's report indicates that we could do it and support the project.
Sudane Erato: 880/month!
Sudane Erato: 8800?
Rose Springvale: yes... the issue we are discussing is really beyond just the new sim
Sudane Erato: yes
Jamie Palisades agrees with Jon
Rose Springvale: can we move on? :)
You: yes, please. The IP agreement.
Rose Springvale: everyone here has a copy
Jamie Palisades: I have a few comments to ssend back in the form of an annootated notecard, but only one big one
Rose Springvale: Jamie, if you have any magic ip words we need, in very short form...
Rose Springvale: yes?
You: It dealt with several issues I had not even thought of
Jamie Palisades: mindful of Schloss Kaos up the hill from here ...
Jamie Palisades: are so so sure w want to agree NOT to copy elements? and that we do NOT want to get full rights copies of all TEXTURES separately? :)
Rose Springvale: i thought we had the right to copy for our use Jamie...let me relook
Moon Adamant: hmmm
You: Its an interesting issue -- ideally we would love to have copies of the original photoshop files if they were available
Sudane Erato: but the textures cannot be extracted
Moon Adamant: mind that the textures can be the object of the project itself, say
Jamie Palisades: WELL
Moon Adamant: for instance, if we ever get to make that reviewing of NFS textures...
Jamie Palisades: just have to balance creatorts' rights with unfixibility :)
You: The idea, though, since me pay little or nothing, is to leave the creator with the rights to use the objects for their own benifit
Sudane Erato: yes
Jamie Palisades: and of course if Guilda or Rudeen or etc. owns everything will full rights, and keeps a copy before lockeng and installing it, we're somewhat covered
You: We don't want a situation where the creator feels that the CDS will be a competitor
Sudane Erato: well, the creator can still have those rights
Moon Adamant: well, i can provide with the example of Beta
Jamie Palisades: Agreed Jon - just don't want you to discover that CDS can;t act lto fix up stuff later, if the creator vanaishes
Rose Springvale: The New Guild shall not copy, sell or distribute the Property other than as may be necessary or practical for use in the Sims, or such other use in the Second Life Grid,
Bromo Ivory is Offline
You: Ah, inventory copies are different than rezed copies
Rose Springvale: the intent there is to let us fix or replace in sim
You: I assumed that was talking about rezzed
Moon Adamant: Beta does work for the whole world... EU, USA, etc - and have workers across it too - the licensing contract is much more flexible for those situations
Bromo Ivory is Online
Jamie Palisades is acutely aware that he is sitting ina room full of people who build sims and see this from the artsit's side - being a Philistine, he's only thinking about what flexibility CDS needs to retain for ITS benefit
You: (Thats why Moon's work hours are so long ... :D )
Moon Adamant: and i think we as an international community have some interest in that as well
Moon Adamant: well, there was an issue about promotion events
Moon Adamant: like SL4B, which do not happen in the Sims
Moon Adamant: but it is contemplated in the contract too
You: Yes, I very much liked that that was covered
Rose Springvale: jamie, how can we address your issue? i'm on the same page as you
Jamie Palisades: WELL
Ludo Merit: Also we were thinking of making an infohub in Neufriestaadt style were we not?
You: Ludo, we have been talking about it, yes.
Jamie Palisades: when Ludo's done :)
Ludo Merit: Done.
Moon Adamant: there's also Anzere, which is not Sims, but it is hmmm a sort of embassy terrain
Rose Springvale takes notes
Jamie Palisades: :) yes
Moon Adamant: but that is covered too by the promotion clause
Jamie Palisades: ok rose: I see a few options
You: Jamie, the important point here, is that this is as much to sell the artists on the idea of contributing as it is to protect the CDS
Jamie Palisades: :) must do both
You: :)
Jamie Palisades: as to protection for CDS? Call it Kendra Insuance? :) - oe option is to limit what textures can be used (ick) e.g. to GPLd
Jamie Palisades: but, as I say, ick.
Rose Springvale: GPL?
You: lol
Moon Adamant: GNU
Sudane Erato: i9ck?
Rose Springvale: that's why i'd like to see us buy the textures we need
Jamie Palisades: another: builder must turn over copies of all textures used, with rights
Moon Adamant: but Jamie
Moon Adamant: hmmm
You: Yes, there are many sources of free and non-free textures
You: the GPL ones are pretty limited
Moon Adamant: my experience tells me if we put up a too complicated process people won't do it
Jamie Palisades: well SU i't s a nice political answer - but my limited aesthetic undrstanding of what's GNU'd (or avail from Linden library) is that it is a limited palette
Rose Springvale: i just am thinking of that note i get every time i go to TRU
Jamie Palisades: yes Moon too true
You: Well, in a way the textures are part of the designer's toolkit
Moon Adamant: eheheh you lost me now with SU and TRU
Jamie Palisades: does THIS work: builder turns over full-perms copyable verythig, then ...
Rose Springvale: LOL
Rose Springvale: alphabet soup
Sudane Erato: Textures R Us
Moon Adamant: well, in Ashcroft's draft for this issue
Jamie Palisades: install locked down versions, but keep backups to build from in restorative work lter?
Moon Adamant: he had specified that all elements that composed the final design were abridged by teh contract
You: everyone who does serious work collects a large pallate of textures, usualy as image files not as SL textures. Telling someone they cannot use at least some of those elements is difficult. Still, as Moon will point out.. there are lag issues
Rose Springvale: abridged?
Moon Adamant: encompassed
Jamie Palisades: abridged ... my eyes are slowly crossing here
Moon Adamant: sorry
Rose Springvale: listen
The Sojourner is Online
Moon Adamant: i'll check on google what are the uses of that word lol
Rose Springvale: in my opionion, we need to keep this simple for both sides
Sudane Erato: yes
Jamie Palisades: :) Moon does my low-tech keep-a-full-perms-copy option work?
You: yes, Rose it right
Moon Adamant: but ash's contract, i always felt, was too limitative for the builder
Rose Springvale: jamie, if you think we need to have full perm textures
Rose Springvale: then i think we need to be prepared to pay for them.. unless as jon says they are self created
Sudane Erato: well, that will often be impossible
Sudane Erato: I couldn't give full perm copies of these textures
Rose Springvale: agrees Sudane
Sudane Erato: without violating my license to use them
Moon Adamant: Jamie: the archival of copies through Guilda, say, is the best way
Jamie Palisades: not full-perm textures - just replicable objects embedding whatever textures are used. 2 years from now, you are hired to fix the broken whatvere on Sim3 ...
Rose Springvale: that's what i thought too
You: Yes, true of a collection of mine that were commercially bought too
Moon Adamant: but mind that people maynot be able togive you a full-perms copy of partial items
Moon Adamant: say they buy anims
Moon Adamant: what we can ask perhaps
Jamie Palisades: .. and we have a backup copy of Sim3 objects in a shed. Can work with that &duplicate what you need, no?
Rose Springvale: in my lay persons view of building...
Rose Springvale: if there are things we can't replicate
Moon Adamant: is a list of the partial elements used when they have not been created by the builders themselves
Rose Springvale: we just have to find another texture
Moon Adamant: but that may be too complicating
Sudane Erato: well... that would be a serious limitation
Rose Springvale: so we know where to find them Moon?
Moon Adamant: yes
Rose Springvale: i think that could work
Rose Springvale: sudane ? no?
Moon Adamant: but... not everyone ha steh patience to do it
Sudane Erato: or the skill
Sudane Erato: I could not work without the purchased textures
Sudane Erato: since my photoshop ability is not that good
Moon Adamant: hmmm
Moon Adamant: what aboiut
You: How often is it that we cannot replace a texture if we need to? Well, very difficult for large textures, but for small ones usually we can find substitutes
Sudane Erato: and many of these things are photos
Rose Springvale: so all it would require is that you say... this includes tetrue set 100 from tru on june 30 2007
Sudane Erato: you could do that
Moon Adamant: a clause protecting the Guild's right to modify buildings in case of missing elements?
Sudane Erato: but most textures are not from in world
Rose Springvale: k
Rose Springvale: maybe we should ask for that?
Sudane Erato: but most textures are not from in world
Rose Springvale: sorry, i'm ignorant about this
Moon Adamant: well, Sudane, your texture sets have a full IP, so i wouldn't worry about that
You: Rose, we mainly make the SL textures from pictures and images on disk
Sudane Erato: yes, but I can't distribute them loose
Ludo Merit: Is there any way to protect ourselves from builders who use copyrighted textures that are not theirs, and then someone sees them on our buildings?
Moon Adamant: remember i looked at them too when we built CN?
Rose Springvale: and then upload to the grid?
Moon Adamant: yes
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: but Sudane
Moon Adamant: 1. you are making derivative work
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: and that you are free to distribute
Sudane Erato: and thats fine
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: they are not those crazy CC licenses eeek
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: and 2. there's always the issue of analog hole
Moon Adamant: that means
Moon Adamant: i buy one photo
Moon Adamant: and use it for a work for a client, say
Moon Adamant: say it's a pamphlet
Moon Adamant: when i send it to him in a digital form
Moon Adamant: even if mail, he gets a copy automatically
Moon Adamant: because you can't avoid the analog hole
Rose Springvale: /nods
Sudane Erato: you mean scanning the image again?
Moon Adamant: in fact, even if i am only LOOKING at pictures in a web browser
Moon Adamant: my machine is getting them
Sudane Erato: yes
Moon Adamant: that's why i always tell people to slightly modify the originals
You: Yes, or using a capture program.. its questionable but technically easy enough
Moon Adamant: so they are always defended by doing derivative work
Moon Adamant: mind also
Moon Adamant: that there could be said that even if you used the photos as they are in a SL build
Moon Adamant: teh SL build is a different object than the pictures, and thus... derivative by essence
ThePrincess Parisi is Offline
You: .. just taking a look at this
Ludo Merit: Where should I be looking?
Ludo Merit: For these laws about derivative work?
Rose Springvale: hi brian
Moon Adamant: hiya Brian!
Sudane Erato: hi Brian!! :)
Rose Springvale: not there ludo
You: Hi Brian :)
Starsitter Quality is Online
Rose Springvale: we are talking basic copyright issues here, not the agreement
Brian Livingston: Hiya folks :)
Jamie Palisades: :) derivative by essence. as with life itself. I love that, Moon. Hi Brian
Ludo Merit: I know, that's why I asked where to find a simple explanation
Rose Springvale: yeah, let's name the new sim.. derivative by essence.. pur poetery :)
Moon Adamant: ah, tehre isn't such, Ludo
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: sadly Ludo, that would be hard to find
Moon Adamant: and lol, perhaps i am not being very explicit, or even correct
Ludo Merit: In other words, I need to ask a lawyer every time I'm unsure?
Rose Springvale: no .. i think you are Moon. I think though we need to try to address what we can
Rose Springvale: we won't solve that issue here
Moon Adamant: but at least this was the practice we have always been taught in my grads
Jamie Palisades: Please don't Ludo. Act kindly and with respect for others, assume law will keep up with you.
Moon Adamant: and makes sense from the artistic creation pov
Moon Adamant: anyway, yes, you're right
Moon Adamant: how do we address this?
You: Anyway, what is our plan for implenting this? Is it too soon?
Rose Springvale: i intentionally did not include any warranties or reps in this document
Rose Springvale: because i think we overlap with LL TOS too
Rose Springvale: Jon.. i'd like to address that if i may
Jon Seattle listens
Rose Springvale: i've been reading fourms and to builders in CDS for what? 6 months now
Bromo Ivory is Offline
Rose Springvale: and i think this whole issue leaves many people feeling ... negatively
Rose Springvale: I think even if we can't be 100 % perfect on the transfers and protection
The Sojourner is Offline
Rose Springvale: it makes sense to TRY to address the issue
Sudane Erato: i agree
Rose Springvale: I'd like to have a list of the peopel involved
You: I agree too
Rose Springvale: and I ...a nd any one else who wants to
Rose Springvale: can approach people individually
Rose Springvale: make payments that were promised
Rose Springvale: and move forward
Rose Springvale: if they want to vent
You: Such a list will be hard for NFS, easier for CN
Rose Springvale: they can vent
Rose Springvale: but lets try
Moon Adamant: i believe that Claude once prepared such a list for NFS
Rose Springvale: the worst that can happen is another kendra thing
Rose Springvale: and tat that poing
Rose Springvale: point
Rose Springvale: we know
Rose Springvale: and can just deal with it
Rose Springvale: rebuild before we undertake a whole new sim if necessary
You: How much money is needed? Could that come from the RA?
Sudane Erato: money for what?
Rose Springvale: i have no idea what representations were made, or what people expect
Sudane Erato: oh
Rose Springvale: payments to builders Sudane?
Sudane Erato: its my impression that everyone who was owed money has been paid it
Sudane Erato: that is certainly the case with Kendra
You: Yes, that was my impression as well
Rose Springvale: so for most, it's just an issue of whodo they give the property to
Sudane Erato: we made up with Dianne more recently
Rose Springvale: like brian and the amphitheater
Rose Springvale: good
Sudane Erato: yes... CN
Sudane Erato: but CN had a very mlimited group of builders
Rose Springvale: and doesn't samantha need something re textures or the like?
Sudane Erato: and I think everyone is good spirited
You: Yes, and three of those are here right now :)
Brian Livingston: Indeed. I'm not looking for any money, just I would liek to see an agreement of sorts, much liek hte one that was droppedo n me earlier, in placeso that everyone is on the same page :)
Moon Adamant: but Sudane
Moon Adamant: i don't think we have signed the licenses for the stuff done after the qauke
Rose Springvale: k
Sudane Erato: thats true
Rose Springvale: so there is all of the CN people, and the quake reconstructionists
Sudane Erato: but the obligations on our part have been met
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You: Ah, Samantha is another story.. she is doing fine work, but went ahead without approval
Rose Springvale: Brian, that's what we are talking about
Gwyneth Llewelyn is Online
Sudane Erato: yes, Samantha just kind of jumpoed in :)
Rose Springvale: with all due respect... lol
Rose Springvale: things do move a little slow in CDS :)
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: nooooooooooooo :)
Brian Livingston: Okee, I just didn't want anyone thinking i was holding out on transferign the rights for money or any other nefarious reason :)
Sudane Erato: hehe...
Sudane Erato: no Brian..
Rose Springvale: you all should have been there last week when samantha removed the schloss walls lol
Rose Springvale: ten minutes before the ball lol
Sudane Erato: oh my!!!
Rose Springvale: we know brian, that's why i picked on you :)
Rose Springvale: ah yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: We asked her for a written proposal and she never provide it.. just went to the forums to ask for funds. I suspect she needs to work with someone who can keet track of what is done.
Brian Livingston: Wha? I was sentb to NYC last minute last week
Rose Springvale: it was a good time
Rose Springvale: Rose was drinking :)
Brian Livingston: lol
Jamie Palisades: God bless Samantha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: anyway... here's what i suggest
Jamie Palisades: Jon is that 'someone' not the Guild? And does not Rose's draft make that so?
Rose Springvale: think about the issue for a few days, and send me anything you think we can add
Rose Springvale: different issue Jamie
Rose Springvale: that NEEDS to be addressed...
You: Jamie, yes, the New Guild asked for something organized.. but I think there needs to be an individual who can work directly with her
Rose Springvale: contractually or building wise jon?
Jamie Palisades: OK, so genricallyu, will we NOT use somthign like Rose's form?
You: Contractualy and also tracking time and resources, or whatever the unit is
You: Also she is not working through the guild, so we are limited in what we can do
Moon Adamant: well, not everyone can or has the patience to do projects... and would rather jump into doing
You: She is skilled in the actual building part you see..
Rose Springvale: okay, so i can go to her with this agreement ... perhaps
Rose Springvale: we need one more agreement
Rose Springvale: re project undertaking
Rose Springvale: for all builders
Moon Adamant: i feel that the Guild must provide with the admin background for those situations
Rose Springvale: scope of work, reporting, budget kind of thing
Rose Springvale: i know!
Aptly Janus is Online
You: yes :)
Rose Springvale: i'll ask samantha to help me develop that
Jamie Palisades: I am not sure about that Rose
Jamie Palisades: a secodn agreement?
Rose Springvale: then we can use her situation to flesh out issues
Rose Springvale: well
Rose Springvale: this is more of a work order thing correct?
Moon Adamant: yes, Samantha will provide the field experience, i agree
Rose Springvale: not a license agreement
Rose Springvale: this license agreement is to deal with ownership primarily
Jamie Palisades: how about just a paragraph. You will build blah, blah, generally consistent with theme ABC, and it should cost about, x, and not to exceed y, and we will strive to make it happen in z weeks."
You: Jamie, we don't always work that way when on a large project
Aptly Janus is Offline
Jamie Palisades: oooookay
Moon Adamant: well, i feel that reporting is already encompassed in teh clause about Guild meetings
Rose Springvale believes in contracts for just about everything
You: on CN, it was more," Jon, why not build Domas houses.."
Sudane Erato: :)
Jamie Palisades: hoiw do you get what you wanted, then? :)
Jamie Palisades: I competely aree with Moon that "reporting" is odious to artists and unneeded here
Brian Livingston: Hehe
Rose Springvale: are are meetings lol
Sudane Erato: haha
Rose Springvale: odious, not unneeded
Moon Adamant: well, an informal approach is generally much more efficient in those cases
You: It was more loosley organized.. but really it went very well
Ludo Merit: I have to go afk but want to stay so I can scroll back later
Brian Livingston agrees
Rose Springvale: i submit that was partly because of the character or the people... you all are easy to work with
Jamie Palisades: :) works great, Jon, except when it doesn;t. ... but some kind of paragraph-long statement up front about what's to be done? Doesn;t seem like a unreasonable request
Rose Springvale: but ... a little intimidating to new people
Moon Adamant: lol, not true in my case ;)
Jamie Palisades: .. and the WHAT of what's delivered is COMPLETELY unaddressed by Rose's contract
Sudane Erato: who... me??? :))
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: Jamie, i agree, particularly for new projects
Rose Springvale: hehe
Rose Springvale: well, rudeen :)
Brian Livingston: /mei sn't intimidating.... a bit scary with the teeth and all.. but not intimidatiing....
Sudane Erato: :)
Moon Adamant: well, i think that the Guild can make project desciptions for each project
Sudane Erato: haha
Brian Livingston can't type :(
You: Jamie, yes, it works when there is effective concensus.. but I am not sure a more formal process would have helped if we did run into a problem builder
Moon Adamant: in fact, it has advantage in doing so
Moon Adamant: and perhaps those descriptions can be annexed to the contracts?
Rose Springvale: ahh
Rose Springvale: exhibits :)
Rose Springvale loves exhibits more than contracts :)
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: much prettier :)
Moon Adamant: thanks Jamie
Rose Springvale: a scope of work kind of thing
Moon Adamant: one sec while i read this
You: Its something I noticed, lawyers work in a world where there are more a matter of resolving conflict through formalization. Few of the problems that creators face are resolved well that way.
Jamie Palisades gave you CDS license jamie comments 1 July.
You: TY Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Law. Feh. If t'were done, t'were best done quickly
You: The draft agreement we have is one where it really can do some good.
Jamie Palisades: Jon - absolutely correct - 90% of issues worked out by good will
Aptly Janus is Online
Jamie Palisades: written agreements only are for the other 10% when 'nice' doesn;t work
Sudane Erato: Jamie's notes are good too
Rose Springvale: the best contracts are signed and put away, never to be read again
Brian Livingston: I am thinking that specifically delineating the exact scope of one's participation in the project will just serve to hinder progress by discouragign builders to try their hand at building other things or moving into other fields, as it isn't in their area of focus
Moon Adamant: lol@arabic temples
Rose Springvale: agreed jamie
Michel Manen: i heard that!!!
Michel Manen: smiles
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: michel, when did you get here
You: It may make sense to always make a token payment, say $1L as I understand it
Moon Adamant: aaah Jamie, good thinking about our trademarks
You: Hi Michel
Jamie Palisades: Love 'em Michel :) Just not in Innsbruck
Michel Manen: hi all
Moon Adamant: and hi Michel! .9
Sudane Erato: hi :)
Brian Livingston: One other thing...
Rose Springvale: michel, you want a copy of waht we are looking at?
Rose Springvale: the license agreement and jamies notes to it
Michel Manen: i do yes... ;)
Jamie Palisades: (side comment - as for contracts, Jon, consider how carefully LillyBeth writes here TRU license :) there, she has interests worth carefully protecting)
Michel Manen: mm
Rose Springvale: waiting for brians other thing
Brian Livingston: Whoops
Rose Springvale: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Brian Livingston: I resolved it myself and must've forgotten to delete that...
Rose Springvale: ok
Rose Springvale: in the interest of time
Rose Springvale: may i suggest that i take another stab at a draft and circulate?
Sudane Erato: great
Rose Springvale: then we can take it up again next time
Jamie Palisades: :)
Rose Springvale: anyone who has any other comments, or even if yo think of something we should cover and ahvent', just send me a note
Moon Adamant: fine by me
Rose Springvale: and ... technical issue
Rose Springvale: does anyone have a problem with me copying this chat? do we need to consent to that?
Sudane Erato: fine with me
Moon Adamant: no issue for me
Ludo Merit: I think we need 5o]
Brian Livingston: no prob
You: Yes, seems very good
Ludo Merit: to and i5's oo
Michel Manen: well after quick perusal i think both rose and jamie did an amazing job ;)
Ludo Merit: k wi5ymew'
You: Lets discuss implementation more at the next meeting.
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: what is ludo saying lol
Rose Springvale: my typo translator isn't working
Ludo Merit: I ht
Sudane Erato: hehe
Michel Manen: lol
Moon Adamant: are you ok, Ludo?
You: Indeed, they did. Rose and Moon and Jamie :)
Ludo Merit: I think we need to ask, and I give permission
Rose Springvale: 'thanks :0
Moon Adamant: oh Moon did very little here :)
Ludo Merit: Tried to type standing up
Rose Springvale: did every one say yes ? lolo
Brian Livingston: yep
Rose Springvale: k
You: Lets talk about finances for just a moment.. this should be quick.
Jamie Palisades: And me the least, Michel. Rose, it probably would be good for CDS if all mtgs of official bodies explicitly operate under all-chat-can-be-copied ground rules :)
You: Let me see what Guilda's balance is. I assume everyone knows about Guilda Dollinger?
Jamie Palisades: Isn;t she married to Gene Wilder?
Sudane Erato: sure!
Michel Manen: Jamie?
Sudane Erato: haha
Jamie Palisades: sorry
You: lol
Rose Springvale: lol. introduce a bill will you jamie :)
Sudane Erato: but I forgot... who is Guilda?
You: Guilda is our accounting alt
Moon Adamant: she was the very dowdy avtar in an aqua dress and Publius' glasses at the ball :P
Michel Manen: smiles
Rose Springvale: i thought she was hot
Sudane Erato: who's alt is she?
You: Sudane has her password, as well as Moon
Rose Springvale: but i'm not into girls lol
You: Mine
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: ok... great
Moon Adamant: lol
Michel Manen: and i was expecting A ngelina Jolie.. grins
Rose Springvale: we'll wait patiently
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: i know she has a nice suit too :)
You: Moon and I worked to make her look like an accountant
You: :D
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Michel Manen: mmmm
Michel Manen: carful
Rose Springvale: lol apologizes to accountants everywhere
Michel Manen: foot out of nmouth plz
Jamie Palisades: siiiiigh can we stop ogling the accounting devices now?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Brian Livingston: lolol
You: Guilda has L$14,898 at present.. mainly due to Rose's wonderful work
Moon Adamant: guys, i won't be able to stand for much longer
Jamie Palisades: so Guilda has some dough
Rose Springvale: yeah!
Sudane Erato: great!!
Jamie Palisades: anythign we need to do about it now?
Michel Manen: smiles
Rose Springvale: Gulda got 9200 from the auction alone
The Sojourner is Online
Rose Springvale: payment of tier on Guild land is my concern
Moon Adamant: and the rest has come from direct donations
Rose Springvale: very cool
Michel Manen: ah yes tier fees
ThePrincess Parisi is Online
Michel Manen: how will we finance these regularly every month?
Moon Adamant: well, we have thought in several ways
Michel Manen: monthly fundraisers rose? smiles
Moon Adamant: one is trough content selling
Moon Adamant: through*
Moon Adamant: such as the MoCA does
Michel Manen: mm
You: Yes, Moon and I payed the school tier for this month, and it looks as if Guilda can pay that for a while. The other question of course is the land in CN which is now being payed for by an anonymous donor
Moon Adamant: indeed
Michel Manen: lol
Rose Springvale: i hope.. that when the new sim is developed
Moon Adamant: and Guilda has the ability now to to support that as well, what do you all think?
You: Yes, I think it would make sense to funnel it all through one path.
Rose Springvale: there will be a way for that land to be incorpoated back into the economy
Rose Springvale: for example
Moon Adamant: fundraiser events are proved also to be a good way to raise money... though not on a monthly basis lol
Rose Springvale: maybe we will have river rafts there
Rose Springvale: lol
Michel Manen: sorry if this is something you already discussed- what specifically will the Guild use the CN land for?
Moon Adamant: also suggested by Arria: paid classes
Rose Springvale: we could take turns :)
Moon Adamant: Michel, we will use it to landscape connect to teh third sim
Michel Manen: great
Michel Manen: thanks
Moon Adamant: and as Rose is suggesting, we can make it pay
Jamie Palisades: ts :)
Jamie Palisades: rafts
Jamie Palisades: heck yes
You: Actually the CN land fits into Rose' plan for Alps.. it is also useful as a park and perhaps a sandbox
Michel Manen: super
Rose Springvale: lots of options
You: yes
Sudane Erato: I must go... need a few mins before the RA mtg
Michel Manen: ah lol
Moon Adamant: in case of guild selling content
Rose Springvale: the whole idea is to have the flexibility to make the connection simpler
Rose Springvale: thanks moon
You: Well, I think we can wrap this up until next week if that is okay
Sudane Erato: ty all :)
Rose Springvale: please :)
Moon Adamant: i would liek to discuss teh possibility of having vendors owned bu guilda
Rose Springvale: everyone needs to come to the emporium and shop btw :)
Jamie Palisades: Just one parting word - I apologize that likely I can't regularly attend these - 10 am SLT is 10 am Sunday in California, and often right in the middle of family commitments for me. I don't know about you US east coast and Texas people, but my life from 9am-1pm Sunday morning has a lot to do with hustling 12 year olds to church against their will. So I may be more with you in spirit than virtually present, at this slot. Sorry about that.
Moon Adamant: and perhaps also of me lending the moonscape store...
Rose Springvale: well, we have soem room in the emporium as well Moon
Moon Adamant: ah, it's ok Jamie!
You: Jamie, thans for attending..
Brian Livingston: Mmm yea, and summer weekends are particularly hjard for me to get to...
Brian Livingston: But I;ll attend as often as possible :)
Rose Springvale: jamie, i agree, right at noon here. no champagne brunches :(
You: Well, we can discuss another time if that is better
Michel Manen: smiles
Moon Adamant: and we can surely use this building for selling stuff also - only it is not central
Moon Adamant: as Moonscapes and the Emporium are
Michel Manen: yes theres always space in the ER as rose said before im sure
Moon Adamant: there surely is at moonscapes too, lol
Rose Springvale: LOL rose likes to give away the farm huh Michel
Jamie Palisades: When we're done w official bizness, Rose, tell me about the Emporium?
Rose Springvale: okay :)
Rose Springvale: are we adjourned Jon?
You: Anyway, lets continue next week
You: yes

Jon Seattle
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:18 am

Transcript of Guild Meeting, 1 July

Post by Jon Seattle »

(You: = Jon Seattle)

Rose Springvale: hi everyone
Sudane Erato: hi Rose! :)
You: Hi Rose! Congradulations :)
Rose Springvale: what did i do now?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: you're in trouble! :)
You: Won the sim contest
You: lol
Rose Springvale: ohhhh
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: well, that means YOU all are in trouble lol. you have to make it work lol
Sudane Erato: haha
You: yes, of course :)
Rose Springvale: i'm a building hacker after all :)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: ohh, new chairs :)
You: Well, there is lots to do that is not buiulding also
Rose Springvale: :)
You: Ah :) cool
You: they look like school chairs
Rose Springvale: lol
Moon Adamant: choose No Anim when sitting
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: yes, they were topmost in my inv :)
Rose Springvale: why? what happens?
Sudane Erato: hehe...
You: There quite realistic
Moon Adamant: well, they have a complex poseball that Gwyn made
Sudane Erato: they make you do inappropriate things :)
Rose Springvale: hmmmm
Moon Adamant: and teh poseball has the anims in them
You: Oh, its asking to animate, should I say yes?
Moon Adamant: and they're couch anims, so you sit cross-legged, indian-like etc
Moon Adamant: no
Rose Springvale: yes, you say yes jon!
Rose Springvale: i'll watch lol
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: hahaha :)
Moon Adamant: one actually floats a bit too over the sofa
You: Ok, I will try the anim.. here goes :D
Auditorium Blue Chair with Desk: Say '/77 show' or '/77 hide' for the ball; you can also click on it (or say '/77 next') to cycle the animations inside
Moon Adamant: Gwyn really has to do a modification on those
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: gotta love a man who follows directions :)
Rose Springvale: lol
Sudane Erato: thats right... with all her free time! :)
Moon Adamant: that's a very modest pose :P
Sudane Erato: haha
You: lol!
Rose Springvale: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: what's under the seat jon?
Moon Adamant: that one is my fave
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: hmm.. wonder what the point of having the chair is :D
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: fidgety school boy
Moon Adamant: well, i actually don't know even how do they work in a sofa
Auditorium Blue Chair with Desk: Say '/77 show' or '/77 hide' for the ball; you can also click on it to cycle the animations inside
Moon Adamant: seeing that they don't have the same hmmm height point
You: Thats better :D
Moon Adamant: one thing i want to do when i have more time too is a series of sitting poses that are sensible
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Moon Adamant: ok
Rose Springvale: that would be really nice!
Moon Adamant: i'll have to run in a bit
Sudane Erato: and that allow you to type, move your head, and breathe
Sudane Erato: not asking too much! :)
Moon Adamant: well, Qavimator is nice to work with, but i don't understand why it isn't exporting well
You: yes, perhaps you could hook it up to a script that could detect the size of the AV
Rose Springvale: and you don't have to be a computer wiz to make work :(
Moon Adamant: yes, exactly!
Moon Adamant: oh, yes, Poser is terrible
Moon Adamant: almost as bad as blender :P
Sudane Erato: :)
Rose Springvale: i've got a zillion things iv'e bought, and no clue what to do with them lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Hi all
Rose Springvale: hey TOP!
Moon Adamant: i've been playing a lot with 3D programs
You: Hi Top :)
Sudane Erato: Welcome new citizen TOP! :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: heheh
Rose Springvale: he's a citizen again?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: but only yesterday Top sent me a tutorial that allows me to do what i think is teh best way to make sculpties :)
Sudane Erato: yes!!!!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I'm afraid so
Moon Adamant: hi RTop :)
Rose Springvale: what have i missed?
Rose Springvale: yay!!
Moon Adamant: well, Rose, Top has bought a plot again :))
Rose Springvale: congratulations!
Rose Springvale: where?
You: Oh, TOP show us the terrian model
Sudane Erato: yay!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (M > not *the* best way .. but a way to use nurbs)
Dnate Mars is Online
Sudane Erato: omg
Rose Springvale: hey dnate!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: From a .raw file
Moon Adamant: well, i managed to make a nice bean bag.... only i had a major crash and hadn't saved it :(
You: This is from a RAW file. I am impressed :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Hi Dnate
Sudane Erato: hi! :)
Moon Adamant: hi dnate :)
Dnate Mars: sorry I am late
Rose Springvale: that is amazing.
You: Hi Dnate :)
Rose Springvale wonders what the heck a .raw file is)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I happened to stumble upon the right how-to's :D
Moon Adamant: i think you'd be able to create those from oh drat what's teh name
You: Rose, a .raw file is used to define and edit the terrain of a sim
Sudane Erato: totally neat!
Moon Adamant: Backhoe raw files
Sudane Erato: backhoe?
Moon Adamant: backhoe is teh tool i use for terrain modelling
Rose Springvale: you mean they act like backhoes?
You: Backhoe is a terrian editor that Both Moon and I have used
Sudane Erato: oh!
Moon Adamant: yes, mac only though
Rose Springvale: ah, mac :)
Rose Springvale: ::strokes keys lovingly::
Sudane Erato: hehe... I edit terrain with my hands :)
Moon Adamant: it immediately saves the correct raw format for uploading in sims
You: It does a good job, but takes a little learning to do subtile things
Dnate Mars: I do like backhoe
TOPGenosse Brouwer: you mean clay, Sundane?
Sudane Erato: yes.... mushy earth :)
Sudane Erato: I love it :)
Moon Adamant: well, i generally take the approach to do with it what is a bore to make, like raising mountains, and leave the sculpting for field work properly
Sudane Erato: yeah... I guess
Moon Adamant: and doing that you can have the main features done in 10 minutes
Rose Springvale: i want to learn this lol
Rose Springvale: but then i'll want to buy sims :(
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: you have a mac?
Rose Springvale: yes!
Sudane Erato: its an addiction :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: no don't leave us! :D
Rose Springvale: yes :)
Moon Adamant: let me get the link for you
Rose Springvale: unlike sl :)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: leave? lol
Rose Springvale: <has an accumulative problem
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: Well, sim construction is lots of fun.. you are about to get as much experience as you would like :)
Moon Adamant: http://secondlife.com/devdown/detail.php?pid=00000012
Rose Springvale: i'm actually looking forward to that. New toys!
Dnate Mars: http://www.notabene-sl.com/Backhoe/
You: Lets start then.
Moon Adamant: ok
Sudane Erato: yes
You: The first issue is to begin to get the next step in the process started. Btw I posted an preliminary agenda, let me get the URL
The Sojourner is Offline
You: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1139
You: Ther is one element that may relate to the SL 4 aniversery, top has the idea of an exhibit we will talk about later
You: First question, should I present this to the RA immedeatly, or do we want to fill in the proposal a bit first?
Sudane Erato: i think immediately
You: yes, I think so too
Moon Adamant: imeediately, i'd say
Rose Springvale: me too, they will want to tweak
Sudane Erato: the less filled in we are... the more we can improvise
Rose Springvale: i'd rather you put in less time before they do
Moon Adamant: oh, btw
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (Since Jon doesn't do an 'official announcement') Congratulations Rose!! :-)
You: Ah, I did one.
Moon Adamant: something Gwyn has commented
Rose Springvale: lol thanks top... you missed that :)
Moon Adamant: yes lol, congrats Rose :))
Dnate Mars: how many people in total voted?
Rose Springvale: lol thanks :)
Moon Adamant: we will need to have a name for the sim
TOPGenosse Brouwer: but .. I want 3 chateaux, for myself ;-)
Sudane Erato: good!!
Sudane Erato: we need the tier :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: that's only my greed, not my money speaking - couldn't afford it :-)
You: This is offical as I get :D http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1138
Sudane Erato: yeah...
Sudane Erato: that was good
Moon Adamant: oh, such a nice reply from Arria!
Sudane Erato: yes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yep
You: 22
You: Someone did not spend all their points :D
Dnate Mars: 128? 25.5 voters?
Sudane Erato: :)
You: Yes, a very nice reply from Arria
Rose Springvale: ahh, very nice.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: J > Why *not* present it to the RA immediately?
You: Sorry 36, right
You: *26
Rose Springvale: (sorry, i just got home last night and haven't been to forums yet)
You: lol typing is not great.. I better sit up streight
Moon Adamant: well, Jon, you can send a notecard to LRA with the link to teh post :)
You: Yes, I will do that just after this meeting.
Dnate Mars: I will be right back, the new "communitcater" sucks....
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You: So, as I see it two processes need to start in parallel
Dnate Mars is Online
Moon Adamant: listens
You: assuming the RA approves
You: One is to begin to think about financing the expansion, I assume the method we used for CN will work well there..
Sudane Erato: yes, although remember, this will be more expensive
You: And the other is to flesh out the detail in the plan so we can get ready to start building, and also being to shop for an island
Moon Adamant: the Ra has to approve interest rate thingies
Sudane Erato: yes, so I guess i should make that proposal
Sudane Erato: re the $$
Moon Adamant: yay for Sudane :)
Dnate Mars: what is the total cost of the new sim going to be?
Rose Springvale: listens...
You: That would be great Sudane
TOPGenosse Brouwer: :)
Sudane Erato: a new one now is #1675
You: Depends on the market I suppose
Sudane Erato: $1675
Sudane Erato: and $295/month
Sudane Erato: unless we buy used
Moon Adamant: if our expansion gets a good momentum, we should start considering forming a rl non-profit - they buy sims at half price
Dnate Mars: is that all we need to raise? or are we looking for more?
Sudane Erato: used will cost a lot more
You: Do we have to buy from LL, or should we look on the market for a used one?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: wouldn't a used one need a voice-update? ($)
You: Sudane, why will used cost more?
Sudane Erato: TOP, yes
Moon Adamant: not necessarily, if used would be a class 5 sever already
Sudane Erato: because the monthly is much less
Dnate Mars: do we want to be voice updated?
Sudane Erato: so owners know that the old ones are very valuable
Moon Adamant: well, Dnate
Moon Adamant: that was actually something we were discussing teh other day
Moon Adamant: CN is ready for voice
Moon Adamant: it is an issue that some sims have voice and others don't - r can be
Moon Adamant: or*
Sudane Erato: does CN have voice now in First Look?
Dnate Mars: it appears to
Sudane Erato: oh!
Dnate Mars: but I don't use voice
Moon Adamant: i don't have first look to check, but CN is a class 5
Sudane Erato: i see
You: There may be used class 5s, I suppose it is worth looking
Moon Adamant: yes, but some reckoning must be done, i think
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon, how could I (for example) see that CN is a class 5?
Sudane Erato: i can't believe that they will not be expensive
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 'About'?
Dnate Mars: but if we want voice, don't we also need to pay $295 a month?
Moon Adamant: download the firstlook viewer and see if you can talk in CN
TOPGenosse Brouwer: aha ok
Sudane Erato: I thought so... that that was planned
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You: I think we should assume voice, if we are to remain attractive long term
Moon Adamant: from what i heard, what's happening is this
Sudane Erato: Jon, I agree
Rose Springvale: is NFS class 4?
Moon Adamant: and i agree too
Moon Adamant: yes
Moon Adamant: NFS is a class 4
Moon Adamant: so to have voice in NFS, we would have to upgrade it, the monthly tier would become 295$´
Rose Springvale: what is it now?
Moon Adamant: and i don't know if we'd have to pay soemthing more
Sudane Erato: god... we'll all have to actually *listen* to each other!! :)
You: I wonder if NFS would also be less laggy on a class 5 server
Rose Springvale: lol
You: lol
Moon Adamant: 250 or so, i think
Rose Springvale: let's investigate the cost of upgrading all of it
You: Its a good idea
Rose Springvale: i'd hate to have someone traveling up to nfs and suddenly lose their conversations
Moon Adamant: my main concern about voice is that instead of getting the griefers writing insults at people, they'll now be able to yell them
You: I suspect that NFS could survive a bit more without voice, but longer term we will want it
Dnate Mars: the sooner the better, I would guess that the monthly fees would be going up by 50% too then?
Sudane Erato: i think you'll still be able to Mute
Sudane Erato: Dnate, I think they have to
Moon Adamant: oh, i have this philosophy that the best way is to immediately kick them :)
Sudane Erato: haha
Rose Springvale: lol
You: In any case, I propose we set up two task forces, one to work on the finance, and the other on the design
Sudane Erato: great
You: Sudane, you are volunteering to do the finances?
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Very good! :)
You: Anyone else want to work on that?
Sudane Erato: the key thing i will need as an interface to the other group is now the parcels will be intended
Tab Scott is Online
You: Indeed.
Rose Springvale: i'll do whatever you want me to do
You: Rose, would you lead the group to work on the design?
You: I am volunteering for that too.
Sudane Erato: for another person, it would just be nice to have someone i can send a proposal to for feedback
Sudane Erato: great
Rose Springvale: umm
Rose Springvale: lead??
Moon Adamant: i can't offer myself for numbers, because i am not very good on those
You: Rose, you can do it :)
Rose Springvale: jon, i am better with money lol
Sudane Erato: haha
Moon Adamant: i can obviously work on the planning and building
Sudane Erato: you'll CERTAINLY have my opinions :))
You: Well, in any case we will need to consult with Rose to make sure we are being true to her proposal's vision
Rose Springvale: Top is good with design...
Rose Springvale: :)
Rose Springvale: and he made the cute houses!
Sudane Erato: hehe
TOPGenosse Brouwer: took me a lot of time heheh :-)
Rose Springvale: and he needs to be welcomed back into the fold... and isn't afraid of forums lol
Sudane Erato: haha
Jon Seattle laughs, yes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: ?? heheh
Rose Springvale: he's a natural to lead!
Sudane Erato: yep :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sorry but I'm not volunteering .. I'm cooking up something PIO-ish in the background
Sudane Erato: PIO?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: PIO-ish
Rose Springvale: pio?
You: TOP, would you be willing to volunteer at least?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: "in the background" <-- ... aka clandestine
You: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: well, i'll certainly be in the background too :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: aka not officially
You: Okay, Top (clandestine), Moon, Jon. Dante?
You: I will oranize meetings for now, but I am happy to have someone else step forward if they would like.
You: *organize
You: Any objections? Otherwise we have a start.
Rose Springvale: wait
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Rose Springvale: objections to what?
You: Two task forces.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: sounds good
You: Sudane (and other volunteers, Rose?) to plan finiances
Rose Springvale: no objections to that... but...
Dnate Mars: sorry, I will help with the build too Rose
Rose Springvale: lol
Rose Springvale: guys... i don't konw anything about building
Dnate Mars: you can just tell me where I build it wrong
You: Jon, Moon, Top, and Dante to work on the plan while consulting Rose
Rose Springvale: you saw how long it took me to put the model together lol
TOPGenosse Brouwer: defining lots, lay out and $ doesn't require building
TOPGenosse Brouwer: covenants neither
Rose Springvale: ok ok
Sudane Erato: true TOP
You: Rose, I am sure you could do it, and learn much of the rest
You: We have skilled builders to do the technical stuff :)
Moon Adamant: Top is very right
Moon Adamant: and Jon too
Rose Springvale: okay okay
Rose Springvale: um
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I'll tell you something how stupid *I* am with building: After 6 months I found out that SL DID HAVE an undo button!!
You: yea!
Moon Adamant: one learns in the making :)
Rose Springvale: and i want Arria and Ulysse too
Moon Adamant: LOL
Sudane Erato: only a tiny bit of pressure Rose :))
Rose Springvale: it does?
Rose Springvale: where is it TOP??
Moon Adamant: yes, ctrl+z
TOPGenosse Brouwer: ctrl-z or in a menu
Rose Springvale: lol
You: Yes, and Arria and Ulysse if they are willing :)
Sudane Erato: it does!!??
Moon Adamant: ahahaha
Sudane Erato: omg
Moon Adamant: yes
Dnate Mars: Edit-> undo
You: Yes, Rose, but it does not work for everything unfortunatly.. the undo
Sudane Erato: hehe... see??
TOPGenosse Brouwer laughts at Sudane!! :D
Sudane Erato: hahaha
Moon Adamant: mind you, it doesn't work if you, say, set the X size using numbers
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Or those LL sneaks put it in only recently
Sudane Erato: hehe yes!
Rose Springvale: i learn something at every one of these meetings :)
Sudane Erato: :))
Dnate Mars: no, it has been around for as long as I remember... it just doesn't always work
Sudane Erato: ahhh
You: Lets go on to the next topic?
TOPGenosse Brouwer nods
Rose Springvale: yes :)
Sudane Erato: kk
You: The SL 4 An exhibit. Top is proposing something.
You: Top?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Yep
TOPGenosse Brouwer: to show at that SL 4th Birthday three CDS sim models ... CN (a real model that Moon gave me), then .. a model of 'Alps', and after that a model of NFS
TOPGenosse Brouwer: 'Alps' and NFS with a sculptie like this one
TOPGenosse Brouwer: That would give the visitors at the event a nice idea about the CDS, .. and I could put labels with names and years on it
Sudane Erato: sounds great!
Moon Adamant: i agree :)
Rose Springvale: how can we help top?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: :-) Glad you like the idea
Moon Adamant: and i nominate Top to lead this ;)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: sure sure
You: lol, of course
Dnate Mars: is there a program yet that will convert RAW into sculpties yet?
Sudane Erato: haha
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You: Dante, you are looking at that :)
Moon Adamant: yes Dnate, blender
Moon Adamant: that's how top did this
Moon Adamant: Top, if you want also, i can get you a copy of fachwerks and insulas
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TOPGenosse Brouwer: For NFS I would need the RAW file, (Aliasi has given her OK) ... Jon volunteered to make a RAW version of the 'Alps' terrain (right?) ... so that's 2 .. and CN is finished, 'cos Moon gave the the real model, which is great.
Moon Adamant: seeing we have 4096 m2 to fill
Moon Adamant: oh
You: Yes, I will do a first cut of the Alps and send it around for comment
Moon Adamant: what about written info for visitors?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > Fachwerk yes please ... Insula .. maybe, I'll need to unlink the CN model for that I think, wouldn't i?
Moon Adamant: oh
Moon Adamant: i was suggesting the real size versions
Rose Springvale: 4096 is what we need to fill for the exhibit?
Moon Adamant: seeing you have a huge terrain to get things in it
Rose Springvale: remember we have room here you can work in if you need it
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Moon > Sure, I'll put it on a nice place at the SL4B site
Moon Adamant: ok, let me rummage
Moon Adamant: the insulas will take a bit longer, tehy're not linked most of them
You: Silly idea: do a RAW file shrinker and actually upload the NFS terrain to the 4096 plot
Moon Adamant: hmmm, perhaps it's best i give you a folder later tonight
TOPGenosse Brouwer: J > hehehe :-)
Moon Adamant: you can't
You: I know.. sorry, just being silly
Moon Adamant: you'd have to blend that parcel into the sim terrain
TOPGenosse Brouwer: M > I've already got the Fachwerk, btw
You: Oh, also Moon's cute mini Fachwerk?
You: In any case, unless anyone objects I would like to see us go forward with this under TOP's leadership
Sudane Erato: great!
Rose Springvale: please!
Moon Adamant: hear hear
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I don't have any great ideas for the rest of SL4B, but just IM me if you want to display something there
Moon Adamant: top, a concern is written info
Moon Adamant: can we get something out of the slwiki, etc?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I've got it bookmarked, why?
You: Yes, there should be some sort of introduction to who we are, etc.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: ( https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL4B )
Moon Adamant: well, you need info there
Rose Springvale: but brief...
Moon Adamant: can someone help top summarizing the info?
Rose Springvale: i'll help with that
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yes please
TOPGenosse Brouwer: ty :)
Rose Springvale: what is the date?
Moon Adamant: wednesday :P
Rose Springvale: lol
TOPGenosse Brouwer: deadline is coming Wednesday (incl. Wedn.)
Rose Springvale: np!
Moon Adamant: it opens next saturday
You: Cool. Next issue?
You: The IP agreement
Rose Springvale: uh oh
You: Has anyone had time to work on that a bit?
Moon Adamant: er... not discussed yet Jon
Moon Adamant: sorry all
Rose Springvale: rose ran off to the bahamas
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Rose Springvale: and didn't follow up :(
Moon Adamant: and Moon was ill
You: Np, we can talk about it next week :)
Moon Adamant: and didn't follow up either :P
Rose Springvale: thanks
You: Next issue, Guild tresury
Rose Springvale: treasury?
You: yes, sorry
You: typoing :D
Moon Adamant: ah, does everybody here know that we have been offered the school building?
Rose Springvale: didn't know
Sudane Erato: yes... its great!
Moon Adamant: so i thought
Sudane Erato: finally will get used
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yep very nice
Dnate Mars: Well, we kinda have already taken it ;)
You: Ah, to be sure we have been given the school building
You: Yes, perhaps we should have the next meeting there
Moon Adamant: which raises teh tier issue immediately
Rose Springvale: was it privately owned?
Rose Springvale: yes.
Moon Adamant: it was owned by the school board
Rose Springvale: (paid the tier on the cn property btw)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: S > Only 2 real companies left in the CDS?
Moon Adamant: ah, another thing we have to discuss too
Sudane Erato: only one... Pels
TOPGenosse Brouwer: and yours?
Rose Springvale: craedo is real
You: It is, I think, the best design work of any building in CDS, Sudane's work. Really a great building
Moon Adamant: anyway, in all cases, this has sped up the discussion on teh economic model for the guild
Sudane Erato: ty :)
Moon Adamant: jon and myself will assure the tier on transition
Moon Adamant: but we need to discuss in which ways the guild can raise money
Moon Adamant: several suggestions have been made already
Moon Adamant: donations
Moon Adamant: object sale
Moon Adamant: paid classes
Moon Adamant: very very briefly
Rose Springvale: how about a fundraiser?
Moon Adamant: hmmm, that's an idea indeed
You: I do think we need to discuss all that, but we also need to set up a place to keep the money
Moon Adamant: sort of throwing in an event for fundraising?
Sudane Erato: a ball at the Schloss! :)
Rose Springvale: that would be cool
Moon Adamant: ah, Jon is right too
You: Oh, a ball is a lovely idea :)
Rose Springvale: :: looks at inventory:: all these pretty dresses :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: we need to discuss how we set this treasury model
Dnate Mars: could we ask the RA for money? They were willing to give the radio money, and that wasn't even part of the CDS.
Sudane Erato: yes! :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer looks at inventory, all these pretty freebie outfits :-)
Moon Adamant: LOL
Rose Springvale: and they have allocated event money, but i don't think anyone has recieved any
Sudane Erato: thats true
Moon Adamant: you have that nice tropical SL startpage tshirt .P
You: I suspect we can ask the RA and also ask for contributions.. I suspect both will work
Sudane Erato: but... if the Guild gets money...
Sudane Erato: the MoCA will rightly ask too
Moon Adamant: lol
Sudane Erato: not that thats bad
Tab Scott is Online
Rose Springvale: hmm
You: Ah, well the MoCA is doing a wonderful job as well :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: MoCA is already considering that ... (when Delia has time to put on the MoCA hat)
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: :)
Rose Springvale: MoCa should have money
TOPGenosse Brouwer thinks MoCA will be a nice zombie again, soon
Sudane Erato: everyone should have money :)
Rose Springvale: lol
TOPGenosse Brouwer: hibernating I mean
Rose Springvale: brb.. one sec
Sudane Erato: yeah :(
You: TOP, why?
Dnate Mars: Do we want to put a bill forward to the RA in regards to collecting money for the Guild?
Sudane Erato: its only Delia
TOPGenosse Brouwer: J > Because Delia is the *only* volunteer now .. she has a plan to involve serious RL students to run MoCA as a project, but Rub. didn't have time for a meeting about that, for 2 months, afaik.
You: Dante, right now I mainly want to set up an Alt so we can have a someplace to put money :)
Sudane Erato: do we need an RA action in order to collect money?
Auditorium Blue Chair with Desk: Say '/77 show' or '/77 hide' for the ball; you can also click on it to cycle the animations inside
Sudane Erato: Jon, yes, thats really the best way
Sudane Erato: like Rudeen
Sudane Erato: and Picasso
You: hmm.. not that I know of
Sudane Erato: Mocasso :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: :)
You: yes, exactly!
Sudane Erato: whoever :)
You: But who's alt should it be?
Rose Springvale: lol
You: the chair keeps asking me about animation :D
Auditorium Blue Chair with Desk: Say '/77 show' or '/77 hide' for the ball; you can also click on it to cycle the animations inside
Sudane Erato: haha
Rose Springvale: i wants you back on the floor lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: it*
Dnate Mars: well.... um...I think you would be the best Jon
TOPGenosse Brouwer: The Secretary seems like a good person, but we would at least need a 2nd person.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: (for the password)
You: Okay, I will set up an ALt for the purpose and we can also elect a second person to have the password etc.
You: Anyone want to be the second person?
Rose Springvale: thinks three people should have it
Rose Springvale: remember we have a group too
Dnate Mars: three is too many
TOPGenosse Brouwer: why 3?
Rose Springvale: time zones
Sudane Erato: Remember, there is a serious privacy issue here
Sudane Erato: sharing the password shares the RL identity
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sudane > I think Jon could fake his RL info if he wanted to
You: yes, which I do not mind at all.
Sudane Erato: not his credit card
TOPGenosse Brouwer: And no credit card is required
Sudane Erato: oh
Sudane Erato: I see what you mean
You: Okay, I will try to make my way through the menues, etc. See where it gets me .. :D
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: can i suggest
Rose Springvale: that whoever this alt is, is the repository for IP rights as well?
Moon Adamant: what about Board Secretary (Jon) and we coudl elect a treasurer to share that info?
You: That makes sense
Moon Adamant: yes, good idea
Moon Adamant: in fact, this alt will have to hold the objects for sale for guild profit
You: yes, the treasurer as the second is also a good idea
Rose Springvale: i'm comfortable with jon, moon and sudane
Rose Springvale: :)
You: Moon, Sudane, are you willing?
Sudane Erato: well.. I can't commit any time to it
Dnate Mars: I dunno, can we trust Sudane with money? ;)
Sudane Erato: haha
Rose Springvale: lol
You: Rose, you happened to pick two others who already know my RL identity :D
Rose Springvale: i figured
Sudane Erato: but, just to be privy to a password is np
Rose Springvale: i think the three of you are well trusted withing the CDS
Rose Springvale: and you spread across time zones
Sudane Erato: oh... thats true
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Rose Springvale: not to say TOP and Dnate aren't lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
TOPGenosse Brouwer: If the USA gets nuked, Moon still has the Guild password :D
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: lol
Rose Springvale: and vice versa lol
Sudane Erato: right... but SL is gone
You: yes, true :) but if the US gets nuked will there be an SL?
Sudane Erato: right :)
Rose Springvale: sl is west coast...
Rose Springvale: :)
Dnate Mars: but I am sure they will have world wide colos by then
Sudane Erato: ahhhh
Rose Springvale: and besides
Rose Springvale: we have the big red button lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Moon Adamant: lol
Moon Adamant: i'll have to go ina few minutes, btw
You: Okay, if no objection, I will set up an alt and share it's password with Moon and Sudane. We will generally pay tier from the Alt's account.
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Rose? That copies your clothing to your bahamas server?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: red button
Rose Springvale: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: Jon, thats foine
Rose Springvale: i'm back in texas now Top lol
Sudane Erato: fine
Moon Adamant: oh, then the tier reg is easy then
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Sounds good
Rose Springvale: congratulations Jon :)
You: Thanks :)
Rose Springvale: you're gonna be a daddy :)
The Sojourner is Online
You: hm?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: and it's father's day :)
Moon Adamant: sudane will actualize the plots' list then
Sudane Erato: thats right!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: A name for the Alt? That will be fun!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Guildo?
Rose Springvale: Righteous
Rose Springvale: lol
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Guildiño?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: maybe it should be a girl!
Moon Adamant: and we'll pay teh alt the tier bit for now, Jon
Dnate Mars: We we still want to go forward with the fountain idea I could easily give what is needed to this alt
Rose Springvale: Guilda!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Brunguilde?
Rose Springvale: hey...
Moon Adamant: Guilda is good lol
Rose Springvale: we can put a fountain on the CN land
You: Ah, I like Guilda :D
Rose Springvale: for what it's worth
Moon Adamant: actually, guilda is guild in portuguese
Dnate Mars: great!
Sudane Erato: oh!
You: lol
Dnate Mars: just get a good last name ;)
Sudane Erato: Guilda Gooden
You: Okay, next I would like to hand things over to Dnate if he has anything to bring up abiout faculty etc..
Dnate Mars: er, yeah... We need to have a meeting seperate from this one
You: yes! :)
Dnate Mars: How does Saturday at 9am look for everyone?
Rose Springvale: this is for facutly?
Dnate Mars: yes
You: Good for me.. I do have another thing I go to at 10 AM SLT
Sudane Erato: hehe... yes... this
Moon Adamant: hmmm, ok by me
Moon Adamant: you'll have to send a warning though lol
You: (And sometimes with Moon too :) )
Rose Springvale: this meeting is saturday?
Dnate Mars: yes
Moon Adamant: getting too many meetings a week, hard to keep track :)
Sudane Erato: oh!
Rose Springvale: sudane is trying to confuse me lol
Sudane Erato: thats caused i'm confused :)
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I hope you don't mind if I skip the meeting, Dnate
Rose Springvale: me too, not faculty material
Dnate Mars: It is fine, I don't expect them to last more then an hour
Moon Adamant: ooh rose, you and jeremy could get us some classes on Ip rights
You: And we get to meet in the school I hope :)
Dnate Mars: yes, I was alrady promised them!
Dnate Mars: tax and SL and IP rights in SL
Rose Springvale: you know, Jamie Palisades offered to do that.. he's a specialist
Moon Adamant: btw Dnate, you did get Claude's invite for the group because of school building transfer?
Rose Springvale: I'll do Tax
Dnate Mars: Moon, I did
You: Dante, good :)
Moon Adamant: ah. yes jamie and not jeremy, sorry
Rose Springvale: jeremy likes to go to parties lol
Dnate Mars: When do you want to hold it Rose?
Rose Springvale: ah, for me it is better a little later in the summer.. i'm in the middle of a travel blitz and never know when i'm going to have access to sl
Moon Adamant: guys, this was a very good meeting
Moon Adamant: but i'll have to leave you, getting late for dinner
Dnate Mars: great, I will contact you later then :)
Rose Springvale: good :)
Sudane Erato: :)
Rose Springvale: thanks Moon!
Sudane Erato: bye Moon! :)
IM: Moon Adamant: kisses you tenderly
IM: Moon Adamant: very good meeting
Jon Seattle hugs moon as she goes
TOPGenosse Brouwer: bye Moon
You: good dinner!
Dnate Mars: Saturnday at 9am
Moon Adamant hugs Jon
Moon Adamant: bye everyone!
Dnate Mars: what is all for now
Rose Springvale: bye :)
You: Okay, thanks everyone! see you next week
IM: Moon Adamant: please delete my chairs when everyone is off :)
Rose Springvale: wait lol
Rose Springvale: shall we work on a fundraiser?
IM: Moon Adamant: and i will be around later on
Rose Springvale: won't take much to put a ball together
Sudane Erato: neat :)
Dnate Mars: and when will the alt be ready Jon?
Rose Springvale: he thought he was getting out of here lol
You: Ah, I will set up the alt in a day or so
You: and send the name around
Moon Adamant is Offline
Dnate Mars: Do we need anything else from the RA to use the fountain as a donation point?
Rose Springvale: did they okay that?
Sudane Erato: I think I have to transfer it to the alt
Dnate Mars: kinda, I know the CDS wants half
Rose Springvale: pfft
You: Well, lets get the basic mechanism in place and then we can talk about fountains and such
Sudane Erato: yes
Rose Springvale: put one up on the land we own here
Rose Springvale: and we'll keep it all :)
Sudane Erato: hehe
TOPGenosse Brouwer: I thought it was up to the chancellor only
Sudane Erato: but no one will visit :)
Rose Springvale: oh yes they will :)
You: Rose, do you have time to start organizing a ball? Sounds like some work.
Rose Springvale: it takes nothing to organize a ball lol. yes, just give me a date
Dnate Mars: Also, at all Guild events we should have a tip jar, any classes, balls, or other events
You: yes, can set one :) european friendly time of course. Weekends are good for me
Rose Springvale: sure... how about next weekedn, in conjuction with bday celebrations?
Sudane Erato: great!
You: Sure :)
Rose Springvale: okay. :)
Dnate Mars: When is N'burgs birhtday?
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: i guess it depends on what day you use
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Don't know, but tomorrow the "CDS" exists exactly 1 year :-)
Rose Springvale: tomorrow??
TOPGenosse Brouwer: yep
Rose Springvale: want to have an event then?
Rose Springvale: lol
You: wow, does it really!
Rose Springvale: i can do that :)
Dnate Mars: Well, there we go, the 1 year CDS ballm next weekend!
TOPGenosse Brouwer: Would have been nice, but it's too soon :-)
Rose Springvale: okay
TOPGenosse Brouwer: good idea Dnate :-)
Sudane Erato: hehe... great
Rose Springvale: i have some thoughts :)
You: Next weekend is the best we can do I think :)
Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to work on it, contact me... otherwise i'll just run with it
Sudane Erato: god... we tried fore months and months to have an opening ball for CN
You: That sounds truly great Rose
TOPGenosse Brouwer: heheheh
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Rose Springvale: well, we'll have an anniversary ball :)
Sudane Erato: now we get one in one week! :))
Sudane Erato: great!
Dnate Mars: Well, I have to run... I will see you all later....
You: See you and thanks Dnate
TOPGenosse Brouwer: see you later!
Rose Springvale: thanks Dnate
Sudane Erato: bye now :)
Dnate Mars is Offline
Sudane Erato: i should run too...
Sudane Erato: have to get something for TOP
Rose Springvale: assume we are ajdourned?
TOPGenosse Brouwer: :)
You: Bye and thanks Sudane, TOP
TOPGenosse Brouwer: you too
Sudane Erato: TOP
Sudane Erato: email?
Rose Springvale: ::pouts::
You: yes, adjourned

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