Chancellor Election

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Arria Perreault
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Chancellor Election

Post by Arria Perreault »

I will not contest the election of the Chancellor, but I am totally chocked with the process. This is the first that I see a Chancellor election in CDS.

I would like that the RA votes a bill requesting a system of election keeping the result secret until the last RA member has voted. If somebody would like to help me to write this bill, I would appreciate. We have enough people in the CDS to develop a good system of election.

It is also not acceptable to make this election over several days. In this case, the last voter had more power than the 6 others. Either RA waits for a day where every member is present, or it dedides a quorum. Or a system of suppleance.

Votation can be open (à main levée in french), but not an election.

I would like to say that the votation is the basic act in democracy. Good processes of voting are a sign of respect for the democracy, for voters and candidates.

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Post by michelmanen »

Arria,

I entirely agree with you. In fact, at the RA meeting, before the process started, I did propose that the election be delayed until every RA member would be present, but the current LRA leader disagreed and decided to go ahead even though 2 out of 7 RA members were missing.

For the future, CARE proposes that the Chancellor no longer be elected jsut by the 7 RA members, but by all citizens, in a free and open vote at the same time with the RA members. In this way, all CDS citizens would have say in who their Chancellor would be.

CARE also proposes that the Leader of the RA (LRA) be elected - by the members of the RA only, since the LRA needs the confindence of the RA to form a majority government and lead the RA. In this case, rules for the LRA election should be clear so that this situation never happens again.

In this case, CARE's [b:1ofyfv63]Leader of the RA (LRA) Act [/b:1ofyfv63]states that:

[b:1ofyfv63]1. The newly-elected Representative Assembly will elect, at its first meeting, a Leader of the Representative Assembly, from amongst RA candidates nominated by fellow RA members during that meeting.

2. The vote for the LRA will be secret and take place in the presence of all RA memebers, except in case of outmost urgency, in which case the vote will be conducted by all RA members off-world, secretly, over a one-week period, by the Dean of the SC, with no individual votes being divulged until the final result is known or the next ballot must begin, depending on the vote's putcome.[/b:1ofyfv63]

To see the entire text of the [i:1ofyfv63]LRA Act[/i:1ofyfv63], please go here: http://www.care-cds.com/forum/index.php ... sg62#msg62

For the CARE [i:1ofyfv63]Executive Powers' Act [/i:1ofyfv63](dealing with the Chancellor's elction and powers, please go here: http://www.care-cds.com/forum/index.php?board=39.0 .

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Nikki
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Post by Nikki »

Has the new Chancellor been elected? :?:

Not anywhere have I seen that - - :?

Last edited by Nikki on Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by michelmanen »

Yes Nikki. The announcement is here: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1258

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Post by Nikki »

Ah. Thank you Michel.

Congratulations to Dnate! :P

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Post by Dnate Mars »

I agree it is not the best way it could have been done. But the past is what it is, and we will just need to move on to the next election. Maybe some new laws should be proposed?

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Post by Brian Livingston »

Due to the differences in time zones and schedules, trying to isolate a 2 hour period of time for our representatives to meet is a difficult task indeed. As we grow, this will get increasingly difficult. I believe that in the relatively near future, we will have to rely on 7 day forum votes, or some other medium that permits more convenient deliberations and voting, for an increasing amount of legislation. Pat did a great job coordinating the schedules of all of the representatives and finding the best possible time, but even then it was a stretch for some, including myself. Again, as we grow, I see this as being a more pressing issue, not jsut in terms of electing a Chancellor, but more broadly in finding a suitable time for an increasing number of representatives to meet every week.

Of the options proposed, I would say that Michel's second suggestion as to conducting an election for the Chancellor by the RA seems to be the most feasible. I can certainly see why there are some concerns about the way the election was conducted, however as our regulations current work, it is the only other mechanism available to us. Needless to say, I am not opposed to adding an additional mechanism for voting in situations such as this, where initial secrecy of the vote may be vital, provided that all votes are reported by the Dean as part of the official reporting of the results, in an effort to promote transparency to counteract the necessary initial secrecy.

[quote="michelmanen":q6kqxrol]
2. The vote for the LRA will be secret and take place in the presence of all RA memebers, except in case of outmost urgency, in which case the vote will be conducted by all RA members off-world, secretly, over a one-week period, by the Dean of the SC, with no individual votes being divulged until the final result is known or the next ballot must begin, depending on the vote's putcome.[/b][/quote:q6kqxrol]

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Pelanor Eldrich
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It would be possible to use our existing apparatus...

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

Why not use FRC's voting booths for a 7 day election resticted to RA members, just as if we were electing the RA? I think that would work. The RA is likely to stay at 7 and grow which makes it increasingly difficult for all members to be present at once during future sessions. A formal 7 day election with secret ballot might not be such a bad idea. -Pel

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Post by Bromo Ivory »

Overall, It felt strange knowing the others votes before I placed mine - so a 7 day secret ballot for voting when members are not present sounds like a good idea in principle.

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Post by Claude Desmoulins »

Although you will then need "election management " (vote counting, etc.) from outside the RA. It will increase the administrative overhead.

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Post by Bromo Ivory »

Well, there could be something simple - like the head of the RA could collect the votes, then post the votes once all 7 are in, with the RA member confirming the vote is accurate?

I know, not automated, and manual, and not protected against "changing ones mind" but it wouldn't require much more overhead than exists currently.

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Tanoujin Milestone
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Post by Tanoujin Milestone »

Bromo, if the LRA collects the votes and makes a final decision with his own vote, we have the same problem as Arria described it: "the last voter had more power than the 6 others". The collector should be a (may be very simple) device or a trusted RA outsider.
May I suggest we first discuss what a proper procedure could be, care about the technical solution later?
Brian wrote "initial secrecy of the vote may be vital". Arria wrote: "I would like that the RA votes a bill requesting a system of election keeping the result secret until the last RA member has voted."
Does that mean, we get to know the vote of every RA Member as soon as the result is fixed? Or are we going to veil the individual votes of the Reps?

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Post by Bromo Ivory »

[quote="Tanoujin Milestone":10itrm1q]Bromo, if the LRA collects the votes and makes a final decision with his own vote, we have the same problem as Arria described it: "the last voter had more power than the 6 others". The collector should be a (may be very simple) device or a trusted RA outsider.
May I suggest we first discuss what a proper procedure could be, care about the technical solution later?
Brian wrote "initial secrecy of the vote may be vital". Arria wrote: "I would like that the RA votes a bill requesting a system of election keeping the result secret until the last RA member has voted."
Does that mean, we get to know the vote of every RA Member as soon as the result is fixed? Or are we going to veil the individual votes of the Reps?[/quote:10itrm1q]

In my mind - the RA member should have his or her vote as a matter of public record. Just it should be secret to all other RA members during the vote.

But Brian and I both voted for Chancellor after the others voted - and the potential flaw was apparent to me (and sounds like it was to Brian as well).

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Post by michelmanen »

The flaw was glaring from the very beginning - which is why I asked for the vote to be delayed until every RA member could vote at the same time -to no effect, of course...

The vote should be secret, and if held off-world, the SC Dean should collect each vote, which once cast cannot be changed. When all votes are in, the SC Dean should anounce the result and post how each RA member voted. If a candidate has enough votes to be elected, the process is over. If not, a new ballot will be held either by secret vote in-world with the voting record to be made public at the end, or of--world in the same manner as described above.

Please note that under CARE's proposals for Chancellor and LRA, the Chancellor and Vice-Chancellor would be elected directly by all citizens at the same time with the other RA Members, and it is the LRA who would be elected by RA members by means of the procedure outlined above (see my post above for links to both draft Acts).

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Post by Patroklus Murakami »

There has been some comment and criticism here of the way the vote for the Chancellor was taken and suggestions for how it could be done better in future.

If anyone wishes to challenge the vote they need to lodge a complaint with the Scientific Council immediately. Here was my rationale for taking the vote the way I did:

1. There is no provision for a secret ballot at an RA meeting and, to my knowledge, one has not been used before.

2. The vote was taken in the same way the previous vote was taken, by RA members stating their preference openly in the meeting. The RA has procedures for dealing with absent members which were invoked at this meeting, hence the appearance of Bromo and Brian's votes on the forums a day or two later. Fundamentally, this is no different from the way the vote was taken in the previous election; it could be argued that taking the vote in open session also privileges those who vote last because they can weigh up which way to cast their vote. The only difference is that with 7-day voting the absent members have longer to consider their vote and, perhaps, do backroom deals.

3. In deciding to employ this method, instead of inventing a new process not used before, I also bore in mind the possibility of legal challenge. Following the previous precedent seemed to me to carry less risk of challenge than any of the alternatives.

4. A secret ballot requires someone who the ballot is sent to. In this case the obvious choices were: LRA (CSDF) or Dean (CSDF). Again, open to challenge and accusations that such 'insider' knowledge could be abused.

5. Delaying the vote until the next week was not a serious option. It is unlikely that we will have all 7 members of the RA present at the next meeting. I'm pretty sure I have at least one apology for absence in already.

Let's learn from this and do things differently in future. I would favour the use of the Borda count to decide the election for Chancellor among the RA members at their first meeting. We could use FRs election booth to facilitate that. It is likely to produce a definitive result (because second choices are likely to result in an overall winner) and would be a secret ballot. The only problem is that it would encourage tactical voting but, hey, nothing's perfect :)

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