PCA - Defining the CDS

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:28 pm

I've posted a Proposed Constitutional Amendment 'Defining the CDS' [url=http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtop ... 4:3vkpnn5t]here[/url:3vkpnn5t] on the CSDF sub-forum. It will be discussed on Thursday at our regular weekly CSDF meeting at 3pm in The Red House on the Lowland Road, (Neufreistadt 123, 33). I am posting it here so that others have a chance to comment.

Bromo Ivory · Post by **Bromo Ivory** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:51 pm

Hi Pat -

NIce start - Question, though - the last sentence -

The RA is elected faction-wise, but the other branches are not directly chosen - so would this mean that we are constitutionally opening ourselves for more direct citizen control?

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:14 pm

Bromo

The sentence "The CDS is represented by all three branches of government." has nothing to do with 'more direct citizen control'. If you want to argue for direct democracy or elections for all three branches, feel free, but do it elsewhere in an appropriate thread. It has nothing to do with this proposal, which is about defining what the CDS is.

Justice Soothsayer · Post by **Justice Soothsayer** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:02 pm

Pat, I'm joining with Bromo here in questioning the language "the CDS is represented by all three branches of government". I'm not sure what that sentence adds to the rest of the paragraph. " Represented" to whom, or to what?

I think it reads much better without the quoted sentence, which introduces some (unintended?) ambiquity. The CDS isn't the government, it is much more than the sum of its parts.

michelmanen · Post by **michelmanen** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:05 pm

What if we add another Branch? The Judiciary, for example?

In any case, this definition is of no effect whatsoever from a legal point of view. For anyone outside the CDS, or for any dispute that would have to be decided outside our community (IP rights issues, for example) the CDS as defined has no legal personality and therefore does not exist.

Your definition totally fails to resolve the problem you claim it seeks to address.

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:16 pm

If the phrase is problematic, what would you suggest it is replaced with?

Justice Soothsayer · Post by **Justice Soothsayer** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:35 am

[quote="Pat":18ee92ds]If the phrase is problematic, what would you suggest it is replaced with?[/quote:18ee92ds]
Just eliminate it, as it adds nothing to the rest of the Preamble.

Bromo Ivory · Post by **Bromo Ivory** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:31 am

[quote:28ens4pl] "The Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) is a self-governed community, whose purpose is to enable ownership of high-quality public, private, and open-space land; [/quote:28ens4pl]

Implications that the CDS is just a land coop.? Does this constitutionally eliminate a decoupling of citizenship and land ownership that we want to explore with the comission?

[quote:28ens4pl] create a themed yet expressive community of public and private builds; [/quote:28ens4pl]

... of public and private builds ... Hmmmm ..... I would like more emphasis on the community - since we do a lot of discussion and voting on the (ahem) forum.

[quote:28ens4pl] and implement novel democratic forms of self-government within Second Life. [/quote:28ens4pl]

I would strike out "novel" since anyone else adopting our form of government could imply that constitutionally we would then need the change - rather than celebrate someone else buying inot our already good idea!

[quote:28ens4pl] The CDS is the citizens, territory, public property and institutions of state. [/quote:28ens4pl]

How about the community? Even non citizens like TOP (I think he's not in right now) are contributors, and is the Guild which is a NGO closely associates with the CDS ... how would those fare ...

[quote:28ens4pl] The CDS is represented by all three branches of government."[/quote:28ens4pl]

(discussed already)

**For me it is the community of citizens and interested parties that really *make* the CDS - the builds certainly are nice, but it is the people that really do it for me ... I see a very strong emphasis on the SIMs and builds - and those are important, since the first purpose of the RA is to manage the SIMs, but I think the life and vitality in CDS is the people and community we foster... (Which is also what even the CDS comedian, Desmond, inferred in another thread)

Beathan · Post by **Beathan** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:53 am

I would replace it with "The CDS government represents the citizens of the CDS, being elected either directly or derivatively by the citizens, and is composed of branches of government with limited and non-overlapping spheres of responsibility under the doctrine of separation of powers."

Beathan

Flyingroc Chung · Post by **Flyingroc Chung** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:59 am

The CDS is made out of people... the CDS is people!

Justice Soothsayer · Post by **Justice Soothsayer** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:32 am

[quote="Flyingroc Chung":3udv9ub6]The CDS is made out of people... the CDS is people![/quote:3udv9ub6]
And the occasional chimp.

michelmanen · Post by **michelmanen** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:50 am

aww... chimps is people too.... if you prick them, do they not bleed?

michelmanen · Post by **michelmanen** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:13 pm

"The CDS" should encompass two elements:

1. a substantive definition, focusing on the CDS as a creative community; and

2. a legal personality, setting up an avie (for exmple," CDSPresident Oh") physically controlled by an entirely independent and impartial individual (for example, the CDS Estate Owner) and actually empowered to act by, for example, a CDS Great Council composed of the leaders of all CDS branches (Chancellor, LRA, SC Dean, Chief Justice -possibly chaired by the Chief Justice and with a tie-breaking vote held by the SC Dean) as has already been, in essence, proposed by Pelanor.

This means that:

a) CDS sources of autonomy and self-governance will reside in the citizens as a whole;

b) there will be a legal entity recognisable to the outside world (LL, RL legal jurisdictions) personifying the CDS, controlled impartially by the EO, and directed substantively by the leaders of all CDS branches of government.

c) the avie will have no role politically (at best ceremonial Head of State -or role of Flamen Dialis (Great Priest of Jupiter) in Republican Rome), but will be the repository of common CDS assets (see recent Guild discussions).

Bromo Ivory · Post by **Bromo Ivory** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:26 pm

[quote="Flyingroc Chung":3rsbkr8t]The CDS is made out of people... the CDS is people![/quote:3rsbkr8t]

LOL!

"Try new Soylent-Neufreistadt and Soylent-ColoniaNova"

Patroklus Murakami · Post by **Patroklus Murakami** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:55 pm

If we are to give the CDS legal personality in the form of an avatar then let's use 'Rudeen Edo' who, after all, provides that function right now.

I'm not keen on the idea of a 'Great Council'. It's a novel addition to our system of government which mashes up the three branches of government and brings in a putative Chief Judge - a very questionable politicisation of the judiciary. I'd prefer to see the power to represent the CDS vested in an individual, the LRA perhaps?