[10:05] You: well, i'll start in any case
[10:05] You: please recall that Guild meetings are recorded
[10:05] You: there has been some smaller adptations to the plan
[10:05] You: namely on roads
[10:06] You: and also on the laying of the plots CS1, CS2 and DS5
[10:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
[10:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Princess
[10:06] Jon Seattle: Hi Rose
[10:06] You: their access is now done from the north, from that alley that comes from the hamlet
[10:06] Rose Springvale: hello arria, Jon
[10:06] Diderot Mirabeau: hey 
[10:06] Rose Springvale: still rezzing
[10:06] Sudane Erato: hi ThePrincess... hi Rose
[10:06] You: Hi princess and Rose
[10:06] Rose Springvale: he Sudane, moon
[10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: hi there
[10:07] Rose Springvale: hi prin
[10:07] Jon Seattle: Hi Princess
[10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: hi sudane and moon and jon and arria and everyone lol
[10:07] You: so we took away the small alley on teh border, moved the Cplots towards the border
[10:07] You: and separated the DS5 plot to allow an alley
[10:07] Sudane Erato: yes, that seems to work well
[10:08] You: ehehe, i noticed yesterday suddenly that CS2 suddenly didn't have access
[10:08] You: as regards roads, Sudane has proposed a few changes that will better the current layout
[10:08] Rose Springvale: what are the red pins?
[10:08] JCNY - BULKE RETRO Ring, Hyper-Gems Fashion Ring whispers: stones set to Crafty
[10:09] Diderot Mirabeau: sold plots I believe
[10:09] You: i agree with those, since i am not very good at terraforming so my road is a bit eek
[10:09] Rose Springvale: wow, wonderful
[10:09] You: yes, red tacks are sold plots
[10:09] JCNY - BULKE RETRO Ring, Hyper-Gems Fashion Ring whispers: stones set to Purple Glass
[10:09] Sudane Erato:
[10:09] Diderot Mirabeau: these changes will they change the locations of bridges across the stream?
[10:09] You: i don't think so
[10:10] Diderot Mirabeau: ok!
[10:10] You: they're mainly to address some steep ramps
[10:10] Sudane Erato: yes... one very steep spot
[10:10] You: ok hmmm
[10:10] You: now
[10:10] You: as you see
[10:11] You: we have tons of plots sold
[10:11] You: also, we must take in consideration that Promotion needs to start, and needs some finishing of what we have
[10:11] You: also, Winter Holidays are happening in 3 weeks
[10:11] You: so we must now organize our work as a team on the sim
[10:12] You: first task is of course finalizing teh terraforming, landscaping and infrastructure
[10:12] You: let's talk landscaping and terraforming first
[10:13] You: i asked everyone who has told me that they would like to help with landscpaing to please call Sudane
[10:13] You: seeing she is on the field and can organize stuff better
[10:13] Sudane Erato: yes, and i have spoken with Jon and Tony... who have started work
[10:13] You: yes
[10:13] You: i know that Jon is working on the monastery quadrant
[10:13] You: dunno where Tony is working
[10:14] You: and i would like to know then which quadrants are missing and where we can help you best
[10:14] Sudane Erato: well... Tony said he is working around BS1 and BS2
[10:14] Arria Perreault: It's quiet flat now and I have asked to let a hole for a crypt
[10:14] Sudane Erato: so we need attention to the mid high
[10:15] Sudane Erato: and the low area
[10:15] You: ok
[10:15] Arria Perreault: he told that it is done, but I did not had the time to see it
[10:15] Sudane Erato: i worked on both somewhat
[10:15] Jon Seattle: Yes,
[10:15] You: also very important: the area around the backwater, which is a small wood or park of sorts
[10:15] Sudane Erato: Arria, we can dig that when the build is ready to go in place
[10:16] Sudane Erato: easier when you are clearing around a sited build
[10:16] You: so let's summarize
[10:16] Arria Perreault: ok. I am glad that I don't have to add big walls to sustain the building
[10:16] Jon Seattle: Ah, it is there alrady, we can fill in part if it is not all covered
[10:16] You: terraforming extra work is needed for
[10:16] Sudane Erato: oh... great!
[10:16] You: High slope near AT1
[10:16] You: hamlet area
[10:16] You: and the backwater area
[10:17] You: hey Sleazy
[10:17] Sleazy Writer: Evening guys .. sorry for being late ..
[10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: hi sleazy
[10:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Sleazy
[10:17] Diderot Mirabeau: hello Sleazy!
[10:17] Rose Springvale: hi SW
[10:17] Jon Seattle: Hi Sleazy
[10:17] Sleazy Writer: heheh, great pins
[10:17] You: another issue is
[10:17] You: landscaping proper
[10:18] Jon Seattle: Yes, Moon, I am quite impressed with your pins. Only two prims!
[10:18] You: i asked Sleazy, our sculpty master, to make us some boulder shapes
[10:18] Sleazy Writer: (ahem - I've got four, so far)
[10:18] You: but i think we must agree on trees and vegetation to be used
[10:19] You: so i would like to hear your views on this
[10:19] You: consider that in NFS we have hmmm pine trees mostly
[10:19] You: and in CN pretty sparse vegetation
[10:19] Sleazy Writer: Not massivly plant Kriss Lehmansculpted trees! .. they're great but all over SL .. so that seems like a bad idea I like LL Pines
[10:20] Sudane Erato: yes... LL trees are great
[10:20] Sudane Erato: one prim
[10:20] Sudane Erato: and they move
[10:20] You: yes, on that issue consider that the commons have 2500 prims
[10:20] Sudane Erato: and we should emphasize pines
[10:20] Sudane Erato: evergreens really
[10:20] You: of which Diderot thinks we will need more than 500 prims for the river
[10:20] Jon Seattle: Yes, certainly even more pines near NFS
[10:20] Sudane Erato: yes
[10:21] Arria Perreault: and some flowers ...
[10:21] Arria Perreault: edelweiss
[10:21] You: can we agree then on evergreens mostly?
[10:21] Jon Seattle: yes, and flowers
[10:21] Rose Springvale: yes, are there snowy ones?
[10:21] You: yes
[10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[10:21] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:21] Jon Seattle: May we use non-LL evergreens also?
[10:21] Sudane Erato: yes... snowy and non-snowy
[10:21] You: not only snowy, as only skeletal trees
[10:21] Sleazy Writer: I like Arria's idea too ... we could do flowers in the middle, in an open terrain, it's good for the view
[10:22] You: ehehe more view?! .))
[10:22] Sudane Erato: well, don't make the trres too big... and the sim will look bigger
[10:22] Arria Perreault: i can try to design an edelweiss
[10:22] You: good, Arria
[10:22] Jon Seattle:
[10:22] Diderot Mirabeau: that's a rough estimate based on historical evidence .. mind you some of that count goes toward establishing bedrock formation alongside the slope of the waterway so in that sense it would contribute to overall landscaping .. and some skillful use of megaprims if allowed could possibly reduce the number further
[10:23] You: and Jon, about non-LL trees
[10:23] You: i think their use must be sparing
[10:23] Jon Seattle: Well, will mega prims disapear?
[10:23] You: for two reasons
[10:23] You: one is primmage alone
[10:23] You: the second is that it may be difficult to change the landscape from summer to winter if it is mainly non-LL trees
[10:24] Sleazy Writer: Can someone please tell me what I missed?
[10:24] You: afaik, megaprims will be kept up till the 256*256 size
[10:24] Jon Seattle: true
[10:24] Sudane Erato: the trees are difficult, no matter what
[10:24] Diderot Mirabeau: we played a round of strip poker Sleazy
[10:24] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:24] Sleazy Writer: damn!
[10:24] You: yes, and Diderot lost 
[10:24] Sleazy Writer: I missed that
[10:24] Rose Springvale: i made some edelweiss for the last ball
[10:24] Sudane Erato: and I won!
[10:24] Diderot Mirabeau: and now I'm overcompensating
[10:25] Jon Seattle: Moon, what will happen when they release 256 ^2 prims?
[10:25] You: ehehe nobody knows
[10:25] Jon Seattle: will everything using megaprims disappear?
[10:25] You: no no
[10:25] You: just the ones larger than 256*256
[10:25] You: but for the rest, building is the same
[10:26] Jon Seattle: Okay
[10:26] You: ok guys
[10:26] You: so to summarize
[10:26] You: we will try and keep evergreens on the upper side
[10:26] You: we may have non-LL trees but with some caution
[10:27] Jon Seattle: Oh, another question.. what about water not on the main waterway.. there are quite a few places where small falls may work very well
[10:27] You: and Arria will try to make an edelweiss cluster, so that we can have some open meadows on teh midslopes
[10:27] You: hm
[10:27] You: about that lol
[10:27] Rose Springvale: i'll share the ones i did with you arria
[10:27] Rose Springvale: they were fun
[10:27] You: i would say.... why more water?!
[10:27] You: now seriously
[10:27] Sleazy Writer: that summary sounds great Moon
[10:28] You: i would leave smaller waters to be done after we have done the big things
[10:28] You: and se ethen how many prims we have left
[10:28] Jon Seattle: Okay
[10:28] Sleazy Writer: Moon > see IM
[10:28] You: let me look at agenda
[10:28] You: btw, another point for agenda: we must discuss teh group too
[10:29] Rose Springvale: people may want them on their land, as well as non LL trees, and we wn't have to worry about it
[10:29] You: sorry, but i made the agenda still not completely awake
[10:29] Sudane Erato:
[10:29] Sleazy Writer: Can I introduce thatone?
[10:30] You: sure, please so, while i edit the agfenda on teh forums
[10:30] Jon Seattle: Well, much of the land that is appropriate to water and trees is in the boundries, not on people's land. So it has to be done out of the public prim pool.
[10:30] Sleazy Writer: Someone will have to make a calculation for that then ..
[10:30] Sleazy Writer: Okay the buildign group
[10:31] You: calculation is done: circa 2500 prims on teh commons
[10:32] Sleazy Writer: I had a chat with Dnate a while ago, about the new sim .. and he remarked that he wants to insist on turning on * auto-return * in the new sim ... that has advantages (1) no cleaning up for caretaker (2) you can allow people to rezz things (60 min.) without having to clean up. .. But the only way you can do that is by setting the public land AND all objects to the same group. "Alpine Meadow" group for example.
[10:32] Sleazy Writer: Now, NFS has several groups, ... but either they're too old, or never set up right (afaik) ... so auto-return is very difficult or impossible to turn on there ...
[10:33] Jon Seattle: Yes, we do it on Cedar and it works well, -- once people learn how to set the goup on objects
[10:33] Sleazy Writer: CN has 2 groups for the sim .. the builders group and a citizens group ... but all objects are NOT set to one group or another ... so it's very hard to turn on auto-return on CN ..
[10:33] Diderot Mirabeau: (speaking of groups - could anyone please invite me to the AM group? thanks!)
[10:33] Sleazy Writer: So ...
[10:33] Sleazy Writer: Why not do it right for Alpine Meadow?
[10:33] Sleazy Writer: We could use 1 group, "Alpine Meadow" for both building AND the citizens ...
[10:33] Rose Springvale: can we use one of the old groups?
[10:34] Rose Springvale: so many of my 25 are already taken with cds groups 
[10:34] Sudane Erato: the citizens don't need a "sim" group
[10:34] Sleazy Writer: The only big drawback that I'm aware of is that this way the number of groups starts grouwing ... 4 CDS groups now inc. AM .... So we might want to use the CDS group
[10:34] Diderot Mirabeau: (alright I'm in, thanks!)
[10:34] Rose Springvale: or even the Land V group
[10:34] You: the thing is
[10:34] You: we need a different group for building and land management, from my experience
[10:34] Rose Springvale: i'd rather keep the cds group so we can invite outsiders
[10:35] You: this happens because when you have people in the same group
[10:35] You: inevitably you end up by someone inviting citizens for teh wrong role
[10:35] Sleazy Writer: (PS. Sudane is right about there not being a need for acitizen's group)
[10:35] Jon Seattle: I have to run.. please feel free to volunteer me for something see you all later.
[10:35] Sudane Erato: bye Jon
[10:35] You: ehehe can i really volunteer you up for things? 
[10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: bye jon
[10:35] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[10:35] Sleazy Writer: bye!
[10:36] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[10:36] You: so in my opinion, this is what we shoudl have as groups
[10:36] You: a CDS one, for all citizens and friends of the CDS
[10:36] Rose Springvale: it woudl be excellent if we coudl combine all three sims
[10:36] You: for notices, etc
[10:37] You: eventually, a Civil Service group, that has the land management
[10:37] You: so all areas that are public would transit to that group when finished
[10:37] You: temp building groups for work being done
[10:37] Rose Springvale: we should do it now.. when we have ten sims... it will be a mess
[10:37] Sleazy Writer: but you'll need to change all objects!!
[10:38] You: you can group select and change groups
[10:38] Sleazy Writer: M > Why not *build* with the Civil Service group ... and eject people that are not civil servants (like me)
[10:38] You: oh, Sleazy, we can do that
[10:38] You: but exec needs to autorize it
[10:38] You: really, you have a few options here
[10:39] You: but one thing is straight: land management group MUST be fdifferent from citizen groups
[10:39] You: mind though that this will bring another point up, which is IP- but on its time
[10:39] Sleazy Writer: I like your idea Moon ... CDS (for citizens) .. CivilService (exec, caretaker, .. =new) ...... Landver/CN/AM = reserve for name only
[10:39] You: what we must discuss now is
[10:40] : Hello, Avatar!
[10:40] You: shall we set up AM for AM group momentarily
[10:40] You: ?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: is there anyone who id building that isn't in Land V or CN?
[10:40] You: opinions...?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: i honestly have NO groups i can drop
[10:40] Rose Springvale: unless one of the cds one
[10:41] You: i have the same issue as you, Rose
[10:41] Rose Springvale: or that i want to drop. lets use one we have then?
[10:41] You: hmmm
[10:42] You: i would need a public officer here to advise on that... janitor or even Chancellor
[10:42] Sleazy Writer: welll ... I see no problem with using an existing group like "Colonia Nova Builders" use it as Civil Service, even when it has the *wrong* name .. names don't matter
[10:42] You: i never was in the LV group
[10:42] Rose Springvale: what do you need to know?
[10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry i have to go
[10:42] Rose Springvale: i'm in all of them
[10:42] Sleazy Writer: bye Princess
[10:42] Rose Springvale: sudane you are too yes?
[10:42] Sudane Erato: bye ThePrincess
[10:42] Rose Springvale: i've got caretaker status
[10:42] You: i am not sure what are the rules for LV group
[10:42] Sudane Erato: well, I dropped some of them
[10:42] You: who decides what, etc
[10:42] Sudane Erato: rules?
[10:42] Arria Perreault: i have to go for one moment too
[10:43] Rose Springvale: rules? lol
[10:43] You: well, Sudane
[10:43] Rose Springvale: LV is .. who can build, who can't
[10:43] Sudane Erato: there are no rules... people are placed in roles as they need to be
[10:43] You: if we decide to build immediately in the LV group
[10:43] You: then the whole guild (lol) must be invite dto it
[10:43] Arria Perreault: i come back or you can ask me if you need something from me
[10:43] Sleazy Writer: (Sudane .. you can remove me from that landmanager role in LV)
[10:43] You: ok, Arria, thanks
[10:44] Sudane Erato: Sleazy, better if you just quit
[10:44] Sudane Erato: I hate expelling people
[10:44] Rose Springvale: there are people in that group i don't know
[10:44] Diderot Mirabeau: hello Bjerkel
[10:44] You: hello Bjerkel
[10:44] Rose Springvale: I'll fire him lol
[10:44] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:44] Sleazy Writer: hi Bj
[10:44] Sudane Erato: hi
[10:44] You: everyone, meet Bjerkel, who is one of our prospective citizens in AM
[10:44] Rose Springvale: but if we are going to use it, you should stay sw
[10:44] You: and who is also a friend
[10:45] Rose Springvale: hello Bjerkel!
[10:45] Sudane Erato: she IS a citizen!
[10:45] Rose Springvale: welcome!
[10:45] Sudane Erato: she has bought 2 parcels in AM
[10:45] Rose Springvale: oh yeah!
[10:45] Diderot Mirabeau: woohoo!
[10:45] You: yay, welcome then
[10:45] Bjerkel Eerie: THANK YOU LL AND ONE
[10:45] Diderot Mirabeau: to the home of bureaucracy and building (tm)
[10:45] Rose Springvale: noting her tag.. we have an AM citizens group?
[10:45] Sleazy Writer: heheh
[10:46] You: yes, Sleazy created the Alpine Meadow group
[10:46] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:46] Rose Springvale: sleaaaazzzyyyy
[10:46] Sleazy Writer: R > yes if you bought land or are intending to build I can add you
[10:46] Rose Springvale: move them all to the CDS group please!
[10:46] Sleazy Writer: So.. We're discussing how to use groups for AM ... Special building group -- or use an existing one
[10:46] Rose Springvale: it is sooo hard to manage these groups for notices and events as it
[10:46] Sudane Erato: yes, i agree
[10:46] You: btw, today i invited MT Lundquist to the CDS group... he was a citizen and not in it
[10:46] Rose Springvale: good!
[10:47] Sleazy Writer: good
[10:47] Sudane Erato: yes
[10:47] Rose Springvale: he's been around a long time too
[10:47] Rose Springvale: see, if we have two groups
[10:47] Rose Springvale: one for build, one for all, for all of CDS
[10:47] Rose Springvale: we won't miss anyone
[10:47] You: exactly
[10:47] Rose Springvale: i want to do a welcom package too
[10:47] Sudane Erato: could everyone please sit over here on the gray chairs?
[10:48] Sleazy Writer: Okay .... guys, tell me what is wrong with this proposal: (1) Using existing builders group "Colonia Nova Builders' ... and (2) Let Dnate, the Chancellor decide later if he wants to turn this into a "Civil Service group" or simply keep it as a building group
[10:48] Rose Springvale: well
[10:48] Rose Springvale: more people are in LV
[10:48] Rose Springvale: and it's more generic
[10:48] Rose Springvale: i'd rather move to that one an delete the CN group
[10:48] Sleazy Writer: I don't like the "unknown people" in LV, what do you think Sudane?
[10:48] You: we will need to pass stuff into the LV group in CN then
[10:49] You: but it can be done
[10:49] Rose Springvale: we can remove them SW
[10:49] Sudane Erato: who is unknown... if need be, we can expell them
[10:49] Sudane Erato: hi Balder
[10:49] Rose Springvale: we CAN manage with group powers too
[10:49] Sleazy Writer: Hi Balder
[10:49] Balder Laasonen: haalo
[10:49] Rose Springvale: hi balder
[10:49] You: hello Balder
[10:49] Sudane Erato: welcome!
[10:49] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:49] Balder Laasonen: thank you
[10:49] You: newcomers: welcome, and this meeting is being recorded
[10:50] Sleazy Writer: Okay ..... who does *not* like to use the "Landverwaltung" group for Alpine Meadow?
[10:50] You: transcript is posted in the CDS forums
[10:50] Rose Springvale: btw, remember LV is also the one enabled in ...
[10:50] Rose Springvale: hmm
[10:50] Sleazy Writer: Anzere yes
[10:50] Rose Springvale: someone tell me the mainlaind hub name again.... yes. lol
[10:50] You: i would prefer to use LV justly so for neutrality of names
[10:50] Rose Springvale: sorry .. bad week
[10:51] Sleazy Writer: So let's just use "Landverwaltung" for ALpine Meadow?
[10:51] Rose Springvale: me too Noon
[10:51] Rose Springvale: yes!!
[10:51] Rose Springvale: Moon
[10:51] Sudane Erato: great
[10:51] Rose Springvale: geez
[10:51] Sleazy Writer: but ......
[10:51] You: yes?
[10:51] Sleazy Writer: Big Caveat IMO
[10:51] Sudane Erato: it means... Land Management
[10:52] Sleazy Writer: I think we should scrutinize the 'abilities' of "landmanagers" (=officers?) .... Theofficer role is rather strong for builders ... Officers can expell people (we dont'want that) and they can set land for sale .. we don't want that
[10:52] Rose Springvale: yes, there is a lot that can be done with the group powers
[10:52] You: yes lol
[10:52] Sudane Erato: yes
[10:52] You: that's why i asked about groups
[10:52] You: and rules
[10:53] You: because... quite honestly
[10:53] Rose Springvale: but even if we just set the land to build only by group
[10:53] You: the CDS group management is still back in 2004
[10:53] Rose Springvale: and give no one in the goup powers.. it works
[10:53] Sleazy Writer: ohhhh good idea ...
[10:53] Rose Springvale: that's how we do it in A A
[10:54] Rose Springvale: group generally can only get notices unless specifically granted other powers
[10:54] Sleazy Writer: that would mean, Sudane kicks out all Officers expcept the people with official roles like caretaker Tanoujin and Dnate and those in goverment?
[10:54] Rose Springvale: ahem
[10:54] Rose Springvale: and pio!
[10:54] Rose Springvale:
[10:54] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:54] You: guys, wait a sec
[10:54] Sudane Erato: well, the officers are people who are given powers
[10:54] Rose Springvale: she doesn't have to kick them SW, just reassign roles
[10:54] You: i propose that we do this instead
[10:54] Sudane Erato: whether they are in govt or not
[10:54] Sleazy Writer: But Dnate shold do that, not you
[10:55] You: we call Exec to define a better group structure
[10:55] Sudane Erato: sure
[10:55] Sleazy Writer: or if he says OK that you do it, that's fine too of course
[10:55] Sleazy Writer: hear hear to what Moon says
[10:55] Sudane Erato: np with that
[10:55] You: and in meanwhile, we build in the group, but don't share with group
[10:55] Sudane Erato: yes... thats important
[10:55] You: untill the drat group structure is in place!
[10:55] Sudane Erato:
[10:55] Sleazy Writer: sounds like a good idea ...
[10:56] Sleazy Writer: (1) we can turn on auto-return ... .but (2) others can't modify them
[10:56] You: i can even share with you guys a group structure we did for one of our clients, that has some 5 or 6 roles
[10:56] Sleazy Writer: I volunteer for taking a look at it and saying "good idea" or "bad idea"
[10:56] You: (including a role for the terminally daft company staf, that are totally FORBID to edit objects
[10:57] Sleazy Writer: heheh
[10:57] You: ok, so let's agree on that
[10:57] Sleazy Writer: Gwyneth?
[10:57] You: h, i meant the client's staff lol
[10:57] You: after they returned a dozen objects
[10:57] You: ok guys
[10:57] You: so let's agree on this
[10:58] You: AM is set to a group
[10:58] You: builders build on that group, don't share for now
[10:58] You: meanwhile, Exec configures teh group roles
[10:58] You: group is Landverthingy
[10:58] Sleazy Writer: aye, sounds good.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: sounds good
[10:59] Sleazy Writer: Bjerkel, still there?
[10:59] Sleazy Writer: If you're volunteering to help with landscaping, you should probably vote
[10:59] Bjerkel Eerie: yes i am
[10:59] Sleazy Writer: (Isn't that right, Moon?)
[10:59] Rose Springvale: are we voting?
[10:59] You: not formally lol
[11:00] Sleazy Writer: why not?
[11:00] You: but we can state our agreement
[11:00] Sudane Erato: oh... sorry... i'm in favor
[11:00] Rose Springvale: just business sleazy
[11:00] Rose Springvale: lol
[11:00] Rose Springvale: guess we are voting
[11:00] You: i am planning to make a votation machine lol
[11:00] You: aye on that then
[11:00] Sudane Erato: hehe
[11:00] Sleazy Writer: In case Bjerkel got confused by our tech talks ... "Landverwaltung" is the existing landmanagement group for this sim .. So we want to recycle it .. or keep it for AM too
[11:01] Sleazy Writer: Any suggestions what I should do with the AM group?
[11:01] You: and later on for CN
[11:01] Rose Springvale: have private parties
[11:01] You: hmmm, keep it for a while
[11:01] Rose Springvale: invite me
[11:01] Rose Springvale:
[11:01] Diderot Mirabeau: use it for fancy titles
[11:01] Sleazy Writer: sure thing ROse
[11:01] Sudane Erato: hehe
[11:01] You: ok guys
[11:01] Rose Springvale: to the parties lol
[11:01] Sleazy Writer: "VonTrappian"
[11:01] You: more points
[11:01] Bjerkel Eerie: sorry i dont feel i understand processs enough yet adn their implictions to vote
[11:01] Sleazy Writer: ok
[11:02] You: before we address issues like building proper - and define building tasks
[11:02] You: i would like only to comment on this
[11:02] Rose Springvale: it's okay Bjerkel.. there are lots of voting opportunities in CDS
[11:02] You: as you are aware
[11:02] You: the drat IP issue isn't solved yet
[11:02] You: so hmmm
[11:03] You: i am in a quite uncomfy situtation as regards you, the builders
[11:03] You: situation*
[11:03] Rose Springvale: moon?
[11:03] You: yes?
[11:03] Rose Springvale: last spring before it all fell apart we DID have agreement on how it would be handled in the new sim, just not the old
[11:03] Rose Springvale: i believe there was a vote taken
[11:03] You: yes
[11:03] You: but you see that atm
[11:04] You: the only thing stopping us from using that fine draft you and Jamie did
[11:04] You: is the HEADING!
[11:04] Rose Springvale: heading?
[11:04] Sudane Erato:
[11:04] You: the first sentence, that defines the CDS
[11:04] You: or that defines Guild, as a n organization of teh CDS
[11:04] Rose Springvale: oh, so was there a vote to NOT use it?
[11:05] Rose Springvale: just trying to understand the process
[11:05] Rose Springvale: was it overturned?
[11:05] You: (the definition cascades into the other)
[11:05] Rose Springvale: i understand the argument, but LEGALLY
[11:05] Rose Springvale: we passed it
[11:05] Diderot Mirabeau: argh
[11:05] Diderot Mirabeau: oops sorry .. pressed the wrong button when editing gestures!
[11:05] Sudane Erato:
[11:05] Rose Springvale: lol
[11:05] Rose Springvale: it was totaly appropriate Diderot!
[11:05] Sudane Erato: yeah... right
[11:05] You: hmmm, i would have to check the transcripts back - becuase i must say myself too am a bit lost on this
[11:06] You: but the issue has passed into the RA
[11:06] You: who got the task to define teh heading for us
[11:06] Rose Springvale: unless there was some affirmative action to withdraw what we did in this room,...
[11:06] Rose Springvale: well
[11:06] You: well, not only us... but to the whole CDS
[11:06] You: and then the discussion on the legal personae began
[11:06] Rose Springvale: i will say no more, but it does undermine our work
[11:07] Sudane Erato: hi Audemar
[11:07] Rose Springvale: so much wasted time
[11:07] Sleazy Writer: No I think it would be good for the Guild to have a contract *besides* a CDS-contract ... but if the Guild 'pirated' content taht should actually go to the CDS that would be a very bad thing
[11:07] You: my issue here
[11:07] Rose Springvale: no one wants to pirate anything
[11:07] Sleazy Writer: oh .. pirated, bad word .... I mean .. : signed contract *before* the CDS
[11:07] You: is that atm, i don't know what to advice people
[11:07] Rose Springvale: w just dont want to sit around and create more nonsense issues when no one intends them
[11:08] Rose Springvale: if i build for the cds, i don't intend to hold anyone hostage and i don't believe anyone here does
[11:08] You: this has more complications than just AM building... also complicates the issue of Guild objects for sale etc
[11:08] Sleazy Writer: yes if you build for the CDS you should sign with the CDS .. so there's one aspect where your drafted document is *not* ideal ...
[11:09] You: the thing is
[11:09] You: Sleazy and Rose
[11:09] Sleazy Writer: but a contract for the guild is good in general
[11:09] Rose Springvale: okay, i withdraw all comments. i won't particiipate in this
[11:09] You: independently of signing to the Guild or to the CDS
[11:09] Sleazy Writer drops topic too
[11:09] You: the issue is that atm, what teh CDS is is what is in discussion
[11:09] You: and the Guild, as an org of the CDS
[11:09] Rose Springvale: with all due respect
[11:10] Rose Springvale: we drafted that document i believe in june. it is now the end of november
[11:10] You: depends its definition on teh primary definition
[11:10] You: i am totally ok with the document
[11:10] You: my question as sec of the board is
[11:10] You: what is the heading? do we have it?
[11:11] You: also, it is my function to worry that builders may have issues on we not having this issue completely solved
[11:11] You: so i would like to propose this
[11:12] You: that builders having issues
[11:12] You: should commit to tasks that don't hmmm mix with this issue
[11:12] You: like helping in terraform, landscaping using SL trees, etc
[11:13] You: making stuff for sale, which then becomes an issue of IP licensing between seller and buyer
[11:13] You: anyone wanting to build infrastructure
[11:13] You: like bridges, roads, waterfalls, etc
[11:14] You: must understand that atm we are going through a period of indefinition~
[11:14] You: and that even if a contract is signed already with teh Guild
[11:14] You: then a second contract in the future will transfer teh IP license to the CDS
[11:14] You: what do you think?
[11:15] Sudane Erato: i guess we should write a document to that effect
[11:15] Sleazy Writer: that last scenario sounds possible .. though not something that would occur often .. personally I would rather wait for a CDS contract instead of signing with the Guild
[11:15] You: understand my position here, please
[11:16] Sudane Erato: why can't we as builders just release all rights?
[11:16] Sleazy Writer: (but for small items it could be great to let the New Guild sell it)
[11:16] Sleazy Writer: S > maybe I'd have to give that some thought
[11:16] You: Sudane: the problem atm is to whom you are releasing all rights
[11:17] Sudane Erato: there is only one CDS, and it is quite clear who that is
[11:17] You: you have tons of heated pages in the forums about SL-only CDS vs RL-incorp CDS
[11:17] Sudane Erato: oih!
[11:17] Sudane Erato: pshaw!
[11:17] Sudane Erato: there is no RL corp!
[11:17] You: lol, yes
[11:17] Sleazy Writer: no but we could have one for FUN
[11:17] You: but there are citizens who think tehre should be
[11:17] Sudane Erato: and unlikely to be one
[11:17] Sleazy Writer:
[11:18] Sudane Erato: we are who we are now!
[11:18] Rose Springvale: terrific waste of time, money and personal resources
[11:18] You: i am trying to get a solution for the moment here
[11:18] Sudane Erato: we cannot plan for all contingencies of the future
[11:18] Sudane Erato: or we will have to install bomb shelters
[11:18] You: so what would you propose then?
[11:19] Sudane Erato: that all builders release all rights... for here in CDS
[11:19] Sudane Erato: but retain the right to sell things elsewhere
[11:19] Bjerkel Eerie: to be a bit cheeky the swiss have a lot of them Sudane
[11:19] Sudane Erato: hehe
[11:19] You: yes, Sudane
[11:19] Sudane Erato: it must be SIMPLE!!!
[11:19] You: that's the essence of the draft that Rose and jamie did
[11:19] Sleazy Writer: Sudane > is that some unilateral license agreement ... Is that possible Rose?
[11:19] Sudane Erato: and it was a perfectly good draft
[11:20] Sleazy Writer: (or between creator and owner/rezzer)
[11:20] Rose Springvale: sorry sleazy, i'm abstaining from the conversation
[11:20] Sleazy Writer: too bad
[11:20] You: it is the draft i will always recommend to be used
[11:20] Sudane Erato: then why don't we use it
[11:20] You: well, we can kick responsbility above lol
[11:20] You: we'll prepare the drafts - and give them to Exec branch
[11:21] Sudane Erato: kk
[11:21] Sleazy Writer: wait a sec ........ I guess the question is: Do we use ONLY a cds-contract ... or BOTH a cds contract AND a NewGuild contract?????? and further: what do we recommend to builders
[11:21] Sudane Erato: the only authority is the CDS
[11:21] You: my main issue here atm is what to recommend to builders
[11:22] Sleazy Writer: (I happen to disagree with that .. the New Guild is not the CDS, strictly speaking ..)
[11:22] You: and thsu my proposal
[11:22] You: to anyone with issues, that they don't create objects
[11:22] You: but help around
[11:23] Sleazy Writer: fine
[11:23] You: to the rest, that they:
[11:23] You: either sign a contract with the Guild so far, with a clause for future transfer of the license to the CDS when the RA solves teh heading and persona issues
[11:24] You: or either sign a contract direct to the CDS, which we Guild will prepare
[11:24] You: and which will be signed by Chancellor
[11:24] Sudane Erato: yes
[11:24] You: and atm, this is really my best proposal
[11:24] Sudane Erato: that makes sense to me
[11:24] Sleazy Writer: I'm fine with that
[11:25] You: it's more work for teh Guild... but hmmm
[11:25] You: i hope everyone is comfy then
[11:25] Sudane Erato: what work?
[11:25] Sudane Erato: only that the Guild provides the contracts
[11:25] You: work preparing two versions of Rose's draft
[11:25] Sudane Erato: even the Chancellor could provide them
[11:25] You: and work discussing it with each builder *sighs*
[11:26] Sudane Erato: no, only one version
[11:26] Sleazy Writer: nah .. that's worth it
[11:26] Sudane Erato: the last proposal
[11:26] Bjerkel Eerie: someone please IM me the context of this disscussion when they have time, i dont want to interupt
[11:26] Sleazy Writer: sure
[11:26] You: Sudane, i can't only offer that
[11:27] You: because i ahve builders who won't work in that condition
[11:27] Sudane Erato: then they take the first option... don't work
[11:27] Sudane Erato: it has GOT to be simple
[11:28] You: sighs, i am afraid it is not
[11:28] Rose Springvale: the draft can be revised to make it very easy moon
[11:28] You: can it?
[11:28] Sudane Erato: yes!
[11:28] Rose Springvale: there is no reason to address this issue for building purposes.
[11:29] You: ok
[11:29] Rose Springvale: the problem is someon needs to do it, and i woan't be called treasonous again, so i wont' touch it
[11:29] You: then let's do it like this
[11:29] You: who has issues, doesn't create objects, helps on what they can
[11:29] Sudane Erato: yes
[11:30] You: who doesn't have issues, signs directly and the future definition of the CDS will act retroactively, is that correct?
[11:30] Sudane Erato: ok... sure
[11:30] Rose Springvale: for sl purposes in building, why do we need to define CDS?
[11:30] Rose Springvale: just say it
[11:30] Rose Springvale: CDS is what the contractors think it is
[11:30] Sleazy Writer: so that means "no issue' people signa NG contract witha CDS clause in it?
[11:30] Rose Springvale: eliminate the heading
[11:30] Sudane Erato: yes
[11:31] Sudane Erato: the CDS is the CDS as presnetly made up
[11:31] You: Rose, i also do believe that the persons defined by the contract have priority
[11:31] You: but... i am a rare bird lol
[11:31] You: ok
[11:32] Rose Springvale: not sure what you mean by priority in this context
[11:32] You: meaning that the CDS person as understood by the contract is what both contractees agree what it is
[11:32] You: independently of it being SL-only, RL-incorp. etc
[11:32] You: ok guys
[11:32] You: not to prolong this further
[11:33] You: i will post to the effect on the Guild forum
[11:33] Rose Springvale: well, that matters when someone wants to sue... but .. we are seeking understaning here, not what holds up in an american court of law
[11:33] You: ok guys
[11:34] You: with this in mind
[11:34] You: let's discuss teh building of infrastructure
[11:34] You: meaning
[11:34] You: roads, bridges, waterfall and D plots
[11:35] You: Let's start by wtaerfall so we don't delay Diderot too much more
[11:35] You: Diderot has made a plan of the waterfall, that can act as a spec
[11:36] Sleazy Writer: Ehm ... Moon .. Can you please recapitulate on the IP thing, by sumarizing it in 1 sentence ... what the hell was just decided?
[11:36] Sudane Erato: yes!... its great!
[11:37] Diderot Mirabeau: oops sorry
[11:38] Diderot Mirabeau: I'm present
[11:38] You: IP: decided that builders willing to give the CDS an IP license will sign a contract prepared by the Guild. Other builders that are atm worrying about the CDS definition problem are invited to work in a way that doesn't involve their creation of objects
[11:38] Diderot Mirabeau coughs
[11:38] Bjerkel Eerie: like all meetings everywhere, but the alternative can be sen best in few of teh snow sims
[11:38] Sleazy Writer: ty
[11:38] Diderot Mirabeau: are we at the waterfall item now?
[11:39] Sleazy Writer: yes
[11:39] You: yes lol
[11:39] Sleazy Writer: Let's first do Waterfall IP!
[11:39] Diderot Mirabeau: excellent! well as a few of you may know, Delia Lake, Bjerkel Eerie and I met up last night (with some input from Sleazy Writer) to look at the waterways for Alpine Meadow
[11:40] Sudane Erato: great
[11:40] Moon Adamant listens
[11:40] Diderot Mirabeau: I've done some preliminary work measuring up the 'canals' as indicated by master planner Moon and summarised the flow in a descriptive notecard, which I shared with Delia and Bjerkel .. we tried to estimate the prim usage on the basis of that ..
[11:41] Diderot Mirabeau: as far as I could tell the waterway will be around 350 metres long .. and most waterfalls I have seen of that width require between 1.5 - 3 prims per metre
[11:41] Sudane Erato: so about 700
[11:41] Diderot Mirabeau: leading to an expected prim count of between 500 - 1000 although the consumption could be reduced by way of various optimising measures such as the use of extralrage prims for bedrock and similar
[11:42] You: yes
[11:43] You: we definetley must aim at 750-800
[11:43] Diderot Mirabeau: we felt that there is a need to take some general decisions regarding design issues .. for example the choice of textures to use
[11:43] You: ok
[11:43] Diderot Mirabeau: and how to organise the work to go ahead in general .. for example whether we would make it a team effort or entrust the building to one person ..
[11:44] You: a question for you three - and for anyone else willing to help on teh wtaerfall
[11:44] Bjerkel Eerie: i would suggest we conduct a few quick experiments with carefully selected hugh sulpty prims as water wit appropriat textures and colors (and try them out in windlight)
[11:44] You: would you like to constitute yourselves in a Waterfall Workgroup?
[11:44] Diderot Mirabeau: but we were a bit at a loss as to how such decisions would be made .. to which extent should the workgroup consider itself a formalised decisionmaking body
[11:45] Diderot Mirabeau: that sounds like a good approach Bjerkel .. but first I think we would want to make sure that the "political" backing is present
[11:45] You: you would decide on all waterfall-related issues
[11:45] You: condition would be that you would open to more volunteers
[11:45] Diderot Mirabeau: I would propose that we formalise ourselves as a working group where every member has a vote
[11:45] Sudane Erato: there are no alternate "water" proposals
[11:45] You: and that you would report back to the Guild
[11:45] Sudane Erato: yes
[11:45] Diderot Mirabeau: it would be open to membership of course .. I understand that Jon and Sleazy also have specific waterfall interest and experience
[11:45] Diderot Mirabeau: and presumably other people ..
[11:46] Sleazy Writer: No specific interested, but I can explain some basics about sculpted water, to those interested
[11:46] Diderot Mirabeau: since Delia is probably the one with the more building experience and CDS experience combined I would propose that she be made the leader of the workgroup .. but I haven't cleared it with her if she wants to be the one to take the initiative
[11:46] Rose Springvale likes to watch the water fall
[11:47] Sudane Erato: hehe
[11:47] Sudane Erato: me too
[11:47] You: ok the internal org depends on you guys really
[11:47] You: so let's vote
[11:48] You: all agreeing that a waterfall workgroup be created, is responsible for ewaterfall-related decisions and building, who shall be self-organized, open to more volunteers and which shall report back to the Guild, say Aye
[11:48] Sudane Erato: aye!
[11:48] Rose Springvale: aye
[11:48] You: (sorry about the grammar)
[11:48] Sleazy Writer: aye
[11:48] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:48] You: aye too
[11:48] Sudane Erato: everyone here can vote
[11:48] Diderot Mirabeau: aye!
[11:48] You: yes lol
[11:49] You: passed
[11:49] Bjerkel Eerie: town hall nay sayeer soeks
[11:49] Bjerkel Eerie: speaks
[11:49] Diderot Mirabeau: that's great thank you .. this is of course within the previously mentioned prim considerations also .. in other words if we expect to go significantly above 500 prims we would of course report back to the guild for further discussion
[11:49] You: and flogging, yes
[11:49] Diderot Mirabeau: lol
[11:49] Sleazy Writer: hahah
[11:49] Sudane Erato: hehe
[11:50] Diderot Mirabeau: I have prepared some design suggestions that I will bring forth within the group and publish in the forums ..
[11:50] You: ok guys
[11:50] You: roads, and bridges
[11:51] You: i plotted a very bad road, sudane already has some suggestions to better it up
[11:51] You: as it is a bit of a boring work, i propose that Sudane and me take care of it
[11:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[11:55] Connected
[11:55] Diderot Mirabeau: welcome back!
[11:56] Diderot Mirabeau: are the neighbours downloading LOTR again?
[11:56] Sudane Erato:
[11:56] Sleazy Writer: heheh .. the movie with the awful WindLight colors
[11:56] Sudane Erato: cat must have pulled the cable out of the wall
[11:56] You: sorry guys
[11:56] Arria Perreault: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teufelsbr%C3%BCcke
[11:56] You: no, my ISP has this habit of disconnecting people when the DSL cell gets too full
[11:56] Arria Perreault: in the french page, you can a painting of Turner representing this bridge
[11:57] Sudane Erato: Arria, neat!
[11:57] You: ok, what was the last thing you heard from me?
[11:57] Rose Springvale: free beer?
[11:57] Sleazy Writer: Bosnian bridge .. nice but too large: http://www.media-sport.com/images/cliff ... bosnia.gif
[11:57] Diderot Mirabeau: where? where?
[11:57] Sudane Erato: hehe
[11:57] Diderot Mirabeau: "Moon Adamant: as it is a bit of a boring work, i propose that Sudane and me take care of it"
[11:57] Rose Springvale: (always worth a try Diderot! )
[11:58] Diderot Mirabeau agrees wholeheartedly
[11:58] You: oh, ok
[11:58] You: i was suggesting then that people could tackle a bridge on tehir own though
[11:58] Bjerkel Eerie: that is teh bridge aat Mostar and was blown up durng the recent war, it connected christian nd muslim communities
[11:58] Sudane Erato: yes
[11:59] You: and i do like that bridge that has a bend
[11:59] Diderot Mirabeau: what about the Mistake Bridge from Neufreistadt? Was it not going to be removed? Would it be possible to transplant it from Altenburg in Neufreistadt to somewhere in AM and would people consider that to be a good idea?
[11:59] You: mind that one of the bridges i marked also has a bend, and another has a slope
[11:59] You: well, the mistake bridge is a çlittle bridge~
[11:59] You: dunno if it would fit
[11:59] Arria Perreault: well if we impose to the owners of plots to respect the theme, why don't we do it
[12:00] Bjerkel Eerie: I like teh implicit structures moon hs lid out
[12:00] You: in any case, it will be removed most possibly when we re-deploy altentadt
[12:00] Arria Perreault: the bridge of Moster is very well known and people will ask it is in the alps
[12:00] Sleazy Writer: I like the idea of moving the Altenburg bridge to AM ..... nice idea and makes building in Altenburg/Undeveloped Area easier
[12:00] You: btw, is there a RA meeting today?
[12:01] Sudane Erato: no
[12:01] You: oh arria
[12:01] You: i don't mean that you replicate Mostar bridge
[12:02] Bjerkel Eerie: it is on teh wy to sriavjov (sp) teh ski town in the boznian mountians
[12:02] You: what i mean is... bridges don't have to be straight, on arches, etc
[12:02] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:02] Sleazy Writer: the Teufelsbrücke is nice too
[12:02] Rose Springvale hums Bridge over Troubled Waters...
[12:02] Bjerkel Eerie: the bridge was built by teh romans i belive
[12:03] You: i would like to see - my opinion here, only - a difference in bridges
[12:03] You: that they would be all different
[12:03] Bjerkel Eerie: yes yes
[12:03] You: and possibly different maetrials too
[12:03] You: like the taller bridge on wood
[12:03] Sleazy Writer: pink bridge, aqua bridge, tangerine bridge?
[12:03] You: as it is very small
[12:03] Bjerkel Eerie: from geologically plausible stone or timber??
[12:04] Rose Springvale: i'd love to see them named for their rl counterparts and notecards loaded to tell their background
[12:04] You: possibly the lower bridge on wood too, if we make that road there a definite earthen alley
