Text of CDS Election Debate, January11, 2008

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Rose Springvale
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Text of CDS Election Debate, January11, 2008

Post by Rose Springvale »

Below is the verbatim text of the Debate held January 11, 2008. All questions were submitted from the audience (none from the moderator) and except where needed to put in complete question format, are unedited.

Thank you for your participation.
Rose Springvale

[15:13] You: Welcome everyone to the January 2008 CDS Election Debate: please be informed that this event may/will be recorded and posted to the forum.
[15:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and ran around
[15:14] You: Candidates, please take your seats if you don't mind
[15:14] MT Lundquist: yep jamie
[15:14] You: sorry, i f you fact the chairs directly you sit right
[15:14] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[15:14] You: lol
[15:14] You: sorry
[15:14] Sonja Strom: :-)
[15:14] ThePrincess Parisi: thatsnot polite
[15:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[15:15] You: alright
[15:15] You: The factions have information available for you at the CDS website, the CDS Forums and at inworld dispensers. Their members are also available to chat, so you shouldn't have any difficulties getting the information you need to vote. There is a guide to how voting works in the CDS, posted at http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1155
[15:15] You: The polls open at noon SLT tomorrow. If you have any problems voting, contact Jon Seattle or Gwyneth Llewelyn. Please Vote!
[15:15] You: We have four factions running in the election this term and each has(or will have) a representative here today. They are, in alphabetical order of the factions: Patroklus Murakami, for CDSf, Sonja Strom, for DPU,
[15:16] You: ThePrincess Parisi for NuCare,
[15:16] You: Brian Livingston may join us on behalf of Simplicity, but has RL conflicts
[15:16] You: We'll debate in the alphabetical order of the factions. We will begin with a five minute opening statement by each faction's debater.
[15:17] You: we will then have 30 minutes of questions from the audience. Finally, each candidate will have the opportunity to make a 3 minute closing statement.I will IM each debater with a notice that they have 30 seconds remaining, so debater, please do not be "busy"
[15:17] Ronda Rall is Online
[15:17] You: When I call time by saying "stop", I ask that speaker finish his sentence and we will move on to the next person. Should any debater crash during his time, we will move on to the next person. Upon re logging successfully, the crashee will be resume once the current debater finishes, and hopefully we will be back in order.
[15:17] You: We begin with the five minute opening statement.
[15:17] You: Pat, are you ready?
[15:17] Patroklus Murakami: not really ;)
[15:18] Patroklus Murakami: but never mind
[15:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yay Pat
[15:18] You: okay, thanks
[15:18] Patroklus Murakami: the csdf has been the major party in the RA for the last term
[15:18] Patroklus Murakami: we had 3 out of 7 seats and were the major party
[15:19] Patroklus Murakami: i think we can be proud of the achievements we have made
[15:19] Patroklus Murakami: we were really clear about what we wanted to achieve
[15:19] Patroklus Murakami: and we were successful, for the most part
[15:20] Patroklus Murakami: our watchwords are accessibilty, responsibility and activity
[15:20] Patroklus Murakami: This term we have improved accessibility by establishing an informal Government Question Hour
[15:20] Patroklus Murakami: enabled greater participation by establishing a budget for Events to bring new life to our sims
[15:20] Patroklus Murakami: enacted useful reforms by putting more power to choose in voters' hands at election time
[15:21] Patroklus Murakami: and, established licenses, a Content Archivist and back-ups for CDS infrastructure to safeguard the intellectual property of the CDS
[15:21] Patroklus Murakami: alone among the factions we have held weekly open, democratic meetings for anyone to attend
[15:22] Patroklus Murakami: our programme for this term consists of vision and a set of practical policies to make that happen
[15:22] Patroklus Murakami: our main focus is territorial expansion to allow more people to join us
[15:22] Patroklus Murakami: we would add two more sims next term by extending the Colonia Nova and Neufreistadt themes
[15:23] Patroklus Murakami: but we're also about responsibility and activity
[15:23] Patroklus Murakami: we would choose green electricity credits for our sims
[15:23] You: thanks pat
[15:23] You: time
[15:23] Patroklus Murakami: and we would also stress culture as well as events
[15:23] Patroklus Murakami: thank you
[15:24] You: Next we have ThePrincess Parisi For NuCare
[15:24] ThePrincess Parisi: Thank you Rose and everyone for being here today and showing interest in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[15:24] ThePrincess Parisi: I represent the faction New United CARE. NuCARE is a party of its people and we work together as a team to provide leadership and direction. We work well together and intend to continue to work alongside and cooperatively with the other factions that make up the whole of CDS.
[15:24] ThePrincess Parisi: We believe first and foremost that we are CDSers and then members of NuCARE and that creating a place where we all live and work together in peace and harmony is the primary matter. We are a party of consensus and cooperation.
[15:25] ThePrincess Parisi: We believe in and will continue to execute progress through collaboration amongst ourselves and our fellow citizens who are members of other factions.Let not one of us forget that we are ALL here today for one thing. CDS.
[15:25] ThePrincess Parisi: Why are we NuCARE? well, just before the election one of CARE's founders decided step down from CARE leadership. This paved the way for new leaders to step forward.
[15:25] ThePrincess Parisi: The leadership gathered and rallied and our passion for CDS led us to forge ahead with new enthusiasm, new ideas and a new great energy that has converged and become greater than before with new direction and new focus. We have both depth and newness.
[15:25] ThePrincess Parisi: And thus New United CARE was born. Alexicon, a very active member of the CDS community is very involved in the activities and commerce and a current RA member, Mizou has been around CDS for a long time and has been involved in building our community as you see from her Carpe Diem designs, has resided here and has also served in the RA, Bromo as well has served in the RA and is an active participant in CDS activities past and present.
[15:25] ThePrincess Parisi: And my MT is a shop owner, land owner and quickly got involved in the government and the faction as well as in helping new people interested in CDS get settled and involved.
[15:25] ThePrincess Parisi: Along with our active membership and new members so newly crowned citizens they are not able to vote but are supporting what we do.. we move ahead, with a positive attitude and poised for success poised for success with a base of core systems from the original founders, systems that are solid but flexible enough to lead us into the future.
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: We are still CARE.
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: We are NEW
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: We are United
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: We are NuCARE.
[15:26] MT Lundquist: yea!!
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: NuCARE's ultimate goal is to make our community a place where we can all live, work,learn and support each other in democracy and freedom.
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: * INCLUSION
[15:26] ThePrincess Parisi: * GROWTH
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: * EDUCATION
[15:27] Edward Lowell is Offline
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: * PARTICIPATION
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: * ACCOUNTABILITY
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: NuCARE is committed to democratic principles that improve the experience of the citizens who live, work and support the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. We the members of NuCARE pride ourselves on our internal democratic processes, our openess as a party and that we operate according to agreed upon rul
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: We intend to open the experience of a democratic government to as many people in Second Life who wish to participate. We propose that a new sim is opened in 2008 with a variety of small low cost lots for new citizens of CDS.
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: We in NuCARE believe in openness and that the principles of democracy as applied in CDS be widely understood. In the current Representative Assembly session we introduced the Guided Tour Bill which received widespread support and approval.This tour will provide a much needed mechanism to spread the message of CDS and democracy in an interesting way.
[15:27] ThePrincess Parisi: We intend to build on this success and make information about CDS available throughout Second Life by opening CDS embassies and stationing ambassadors outside of CDS sims. We advocate the promotion of the sharing between different Second Life cultures and systems, to promote the diversity of views, opinions and beliefs.
[15:28] ThePrincess Parisi: We intend to promote education about and the development of metaverse principles. CDS events such as the Metanomics lectures have been actively supported by members of NuCARE. NuCARE will support a two way dialogue with those at the forefront of the metaverse movement.
[15:28] ThePrincess Parisi: NuCARE is also careful to listen to the citizens and ensure their views are respected and supported. We are proactive in presenting sensible policies which benefit the community and CDS as a whole. The Direct Teleport bill was introduced by a our RA member and again received overwhelming support from the community. This change has brought benefit to citzens and business within the CDS sims.
[15:28] ThePrincess Parisi: uCARE believes in financial accountability. Therefore NuCARE will introduce legislation regarding a competative bidding process for large expenditures.
[15:28] ThePrincess Parisi: When you vote, Please rank NuCARE first.
[15:28] ThePrincess Parisi: NuCARE's ultimate goal is to make our community a place where we can all live, learn work and support each other, in democracy and freedom.
[15:29] ThePrincess Parisi: On Behalf of The New United CARE, thank you very much.
[15:29] You: Thank you ThePrincess
[15:29] Bells Semyorka cheers!
[15:29] You: Finally, Sonja Strom, for DPU
[15:29] Sleazy Writer: applause
[15:29] Sonja Strom: Greetings!
[15:30] Sonja Strom: For those who do not already know me, I am Sonja Strom.
[15:30] Sonja Strom: For English-speakers, this is pronounced like "Soneya Strome"
[15:30] Sonja Strom: It is a name from the German-speaking culture of Central Europe,
[15:30] Sonja Strom: because in RL I am originally from the German-speaking are of Switzerland,
[15:31] Sonja Strom: in the Alps.
[15:31] Sonja Strom: Now I live in RL
[15:31] Sonja Strom: and in SL
[15:31] Sonja Strom: in Colorado, USA
[15:31] Sonja Strom: in Neufreistadt, CDS.
[15:31] Sonja Strom: I have been in the CDS since last February,
[15:31] Sonja Strom: now almost one year ago.
[15:31] Sonja Strom: For about 8 months I did not join any party,
[15:32] Sonja Strom: but then I decided to suppor the DPU.
[15:32] Sonja Strom: It was the closest to my own perspective.
[15:32] Sonja Strom: Also, its most active members were becoming less-so.
[15:32] Sonja Strom: I wanted to see it continue, and I still do.
[15:32] Sonja Strom: This is the main reason why I am running as the only representative for the DPU in the RA.
[15:33] Sonja Strom: Our views are described in detail in our platform.
[15:33] Sonja Strom: It is available from DPU signs on all 3 sims.
[15:33] Sonja Strom: Or I will be happy to give you a copyu.
[15:33] Sonja Strom: I will also be happy to answer any questions you might have.
[15:33] Sonja Strom: The most important of it is,
[15:33] Sonja Strom: we want to respect the views of others and work together with them
[15:33] Sonja Strom: in a practical way.
[15:34] Sonja Strom: Thank you for being here,
[15:34] Sonja Strom: and for listening.
[15:34] Sonja Strom: And thank you very much for your participation in the CDS!
[15:34] Sonja Strom: :-D
[15:34] You: thank you Sonja
[15:34] Sleazy Writer: thank you :-)
[15:35] Sonja Strom: thank you :-)
[15:35] You: Still no one from Simplicity?
[15:35] You: We will now take questions from the audience for 30 minutes
[15:35] Ronda Rall is Online
[15:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i can tsee
[15:35] You: Please IM me if you have a question. I will call individuals by name in the order i receive their requests. Please direct your questions to a specific debater, and please keep your questions brief, and to the point.Debaters, please restrict your answers to under a few minutes in length, so as to allow for a fair number of people to participate.
[15:36] You: Questions please:)
[15:36] You: hmm
[15:37] You: i have a question for Patroklus
[15:37] Patroklus Murakami: okay :)
[15:37] You: Can you be more specific about CSDF's plans for a new sim?
[15:38] Patroklus Murakami: i don't know what we could be more specific about :) we think that the quickest way to expand is by expanding existing themes according to the regional plan rather than by holidng repeated public contests
[15:39] Patroklus Murakami: so, in our model, we would expand colonia nova by adding one sim
[15:39] Patroklus Murakami: and neufreistadt by adding another
[15:39] Patroklus Murakami: this means we can add more places for ppl to live without the hold ups that took so long to get Alpine Meadow off the ground
[15:40] Patroklus Murakami: we think that's a good compromise that enables us to expand territory and population quickly
[15:40] ThePrincess Parisi: May i speak?
[15:40] You: breifly yes, we have more questions
[15:41] ThePrincess Parisi: NuCARE agrees actually that new sims by CN are the way to go
[15:41] ThePrincess Parisi: with small lots
[15:41] ThePrincess Parisi: to let lots of ppl be able to get in to CDS
[15:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but we plan
[15:41] ThePrincess Parisi: to propse
[15:41] ThePrincess Parisi: propose a system of competitive bids
[15:42] ThePrincess Parisi: so that the problems of the past with buiders and funds arent repeated
[15:42] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[15:42] You: Princess
[15:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[15:42] You: the next question is directed to you
[15:43] You: Arria has asked to be identified with this, and would like to know the projects of NuCARE in the domain the cultural activities
[15:43] Jamie Palisades: Sonja. Territorial expansion. Pat and Prin talked, you didn't. Do you think AM resulted in more people, versus reshuffling of existing citizens? How we can best handle land use in the future so as to make citizenship attractive, and significant increases in citizenship more likely?
[15:43] ThePrincess Parisi: the most important cultural event we plan is the continuation of our most glorious success
[15:43] ThePrincess Parisi: the guided tour bill
[15:44] Jamie Palisades: ha ha oops - posted it to the open. Sorry guys :)
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: that will ...
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: u m ruler time jamie
[15:44] Jamie Palisades: <thwack>
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: the guided tour will allow citizens and visitors
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: to come to CDS
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and be able to experience our sims in a unique and fun way
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and let us educate them simultaneously
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: about what we do
[15:44] ThePrincess Parisi: who we are
[15:45] You: Thank you Princess
[15:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and where we intend to be and
[15:45] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[15:45] You: Sonja, let's take Jamie's out of control question
[15:45] Sonja Strom: haha!
[15:45] Sonja Strom: Jamie, I have done that before too.
[15:45] You: Sonja. Territorial expansion. Pat and Prin talked, you didn't. Do you think AM resulted in more people, versus reshuffling of existing citizens? How we can best handle land use in the future so as to make citizenship attractive, and significant increases in citizenship more likely?
[15:45] Sonja Strom: To Rose, in fact, so I understand. :-)
[15:46] Trico Sands is Offline
[15:46] Sonja Strom: I don't know what distribution of citizens AM has, being former ones or new ones.
[15:46] Sonja Strom: I think it expanded the territory of the CDS.
[15:46] ThePrincess Parisi: he wants to knwo what DPU palns for expansion
[15:46] Sonja Strom: My guesss is, it will result in more citizens over time.
[15:46] You: yes if you want to just address that issue Sonja, expansion please
[15:47] Sonja Strom: OK, I thought the question began with my interpretation of the effects of AM.
[15:47] Sonja Strom: Most important in my view is that the CDS be a good place for its citizens.
[15:48] Sonja Strom: For example, the government should do what it can to support those trying to make an income from some kind of business,
[15:48] Sonja Strom: by working to keep the CDS an attractive place
[15:48] Sonja Strom: and through many other concepts the DPU has described in its platform.
[15:48] Sonja Strom: If the CDS is such an attractive place,
[15:49] Sonja Strom: it will attract new visitors
[15:49] Sonja Strom: and new citizens.
[15:49] You: thank you
[15:49] You: Pat. CDS Citizens who do not own land. There was a non-RA special commission, and then an RA debate at odds, with sharp feelings on all sides, on that one. My understanding is that CDSF pretty much opposed it and defeated it. Which is not precisely a pro-growth strategy. Who's on what side, now? Why?
[15:49] Patroklus Murakami: the commission was inconclusive
[15:50] Patroklus Murakami: there was not a consensus one way or the other
[15:50] Patroklus Murakami: i have given an analysis of the outcome which has not been challenged by any of the ppl whose views i summarised
[15:50] Patroklus Murakami: the CSDF has the full range of views on this
[15:50] Patroklus Murakami: some favour expansion without land
[15:51] Patroklus Murakami: others are fundamentally opposed
[15:51] Patroklus Murakami: it became clear to us that, to enact the reform, we would need substantial safeguards
[15:51] Patroklus Murakami: under those circumstances, opposing a free for all made most sense
[15:52] Patroklus Murakami: i don't see any party standing for landless citizens in this election
[15:52] You: in fairness, a similar question has been asked, and i've been asked to post verbatim, for the record i'm going to post it now,
[15:52] Sleazy Writer: hear hear @ Patroklus.
[15:52] You: Hello all, I’m Michel Manen’s alt – I couldn’t log in with Michel – apologies. Pat, your faction’s manifesto commits itself to democracy, openness, accountability and growth for our community. However, during the last year, you have: 1. Voted down the recommendations of the Citizenship Commission to open up membership in the CDS by expanding citizenship to landless, fee-paying citizens; 2. Voted down the election of the Chancellor by all CDS citizens and not just by 7 RA members; 3. Voted down the election of al RA members directly by citizens in order to maintain the power of party grandees to decide who sits in our legislative assembly; [15:45] Aemilius Cloetens: 4. Voted down the election of a responsible Leader of the RA by the RA Members themselves, rather than automatic appointment based on faction votes; 5. Failed to live up to your commitment to set up an integrated CDS portal to give easy and open access to our community, as you had promised to do in your previous manifesto; and 6.
[15:52] You: Presided over the loss of 35 citizens – fully one-half of today’s CDS citizens. Why should I or any CDS citizen concerned with issues of democracy, openness, accountability and growth for our community entrust you and your CSDF colleagues with our votes in the up-coming election?
[15:53] Patroklus Murakami: wow, how long do i get to answer that?
[15:53] You: smile
[15:53] Sonja Strom: :-D
[15:53] You: a reasonable amoutn of time
[15:53] ThePrincess Parisi has fainted
[15:53] Patroklus Murakami: 1. i have given my answer. no one is supporting that idea in this election
[15:54] Patroklus Murakami: 2.we oppose a direclty elected chancellor, the executive is the result of a compromise. again, no one else is standing for this
[15:54] ThePrincess Parisi: Excuse me please.
[15:54] Patroklus Murakami: 3. i don't know what that means
[15:54] ThePrincess Parisi: EXCUSE ME
[15:55] ThePrincess Parisi: may we move forward
[15:55] You: princess let him finish please
[15:55] Patroklus Murakami: i haven't finished
[15:55] ThePrincess Parisi: with questoins about the future
[15:55] Patroklus Murakami: 4. i think that certainty about the leader of the RA is useful and granted by our current system, i don't think we should change that
[15:56] Patroklus Murakami: 5. we tried, not completed yet
[15:57] Patroklus Murakami: 6. we gained, and lost 35 citizens, we didn't decline. that's normal for an SL project but of course we would like to expand, hence our proposals on this issue
[15:57] Patroklus Murakami: sorry to take so much time to answer :)
[15:57] You: Thank you Pat. Princess, your turn...
[15:57] You: What problems are you talking about? --> "so that the problems of the past with buiders and funds arent repeated" in regards to competetive bids
[15:57] You: before you anser
[15:57] Sleazy Writer: actually we gained citizens, perioud.
[15:57] ThePrincess Parisi: Actually i am jus tgoign to say
[15:57] You: Ladies and gentlemen
[15:57] You: plese keep your questions brief
[15:57] You: and threatening me is really out of order
[15:57] ThePrincess Parisi: adn let the candidates each have a same ammount of time to answer
[15:58] Jamie Palisades winces
[15:58] You: the questions are directed from the audience
[15:58] ThePrincess Parisi: this is all i have to say about NuCARE
[15:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we accepted the outcomeof the commission
[15:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and decided to go with the statement made by the commission and made plans to expand with new land and new sims
[15:59] ThePrincess Parisi: thankyou
[15:59] You: you dont' want to address the issue you were asked?
[15:59] ThePrincess Parisi: i will gladly answer that too
[15:59] ThePrincess Parisi: the problem is that the AM build
[15:59] ThePrincess Parisi: did not have funding
[15:59] ThePrincess Parisi: prior to its being built
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: it was asked of the RA after it was half built
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: that we make allowances for promises
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: that were not
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and we would like ot not have that happen again
[16:00] Patroklus Murakami: hmmm. that wasn't the problem with AM
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: but rather plan ahead of time
[16:00] You: lets let her finish pleae
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: that was the problem as i saw it pat
[16:00] You: are you finished princess?
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: there is ugly water too
[16:00] ThePrincess Parisi: but that is not what i am talking about
[16:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the matter of finance was not handled before the build began
[16:01] ThePrincess Parisi: simple as that
[16:01] ThePrincess Parisi: we propose
[16:01] ThePrincess Parisi: that there be pre build bids and finance prior to the next sim
[16:02] ThePrincess Parisi: and any major expenditures
[16:02] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you i am done
[16:02] Sleazy Writer: The cost of constructing a sim is 2,000 - 30,000 US$? rough guess?
[16:02] You: from all debaters - if their factions support 512m2 plots in our sims for new-to-SL landowners. Sonja, would you start please?
[16:02] Sleazy Writer: oops 30k must be wrong :-)
[16:03] Jon Seattle: No, Moon and co charge about US$90,000 (shrugs)
[16:03] ThePrincess Parisi: a nicesim for a princess
[16:03] Sonja Strom: I would say this is this kind of issue that is good to ask the community about. We could have a poll of the citizens.
[16:03] ThePrincess Parisi: could
[16:03] You: thank you, Pat?
[16:04] Patroklus Murakami: when the AM proposals were discussed we stood up for a mix of plot sizes
[16:04] Patroklus Murakami: we were the ones who said there needed to be 512 lots to allow more ppl to live in the new sim
[16:04] You: so i take that as yes?
[16:05] Patroklus Murakami: ithink we will take the same approach to expansion, lets' have a balance
[16:05] Patroklus Murakami: but not a newbie first land type sim with lots of512 lots
[16:05] Patroklus Murakami: that's a recipe for a horror
[16:05] You: thank you. Princess?
[16:05] ThePrincess Parisi: well of course we need a balance but with CDS as a whole
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: and i see many people who are NOT citizens
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: who dont come here
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: because they dont have access to small lots
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: of course we dont want mainland ..
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: we want a residential sim
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: that has small lots to balance out the land sizes currently in CDS
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: and 512 lots have theier place
[16:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: when we poll some citizzens
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to be careful not to forget
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: to poll the poeople who DONT live here
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: the tgi
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: the guided tour
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: will allow us to do that
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: and get a feel for what we are outside our walls
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: poll the population of sl about it and us
[16:07] ThePrincess Parisi: that is the beauty
[16:08] You: okay, i have a few more questions, and we are near the end of our alloted time. I'll ask these, and ask your forbearance audience, as we address these important issues
[16:08] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[16:08] ThePrincess Parisi: so your answer is yes to 512s
[16:08] You: thank you princess
[16:08] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[16:08] You: this is directed to you Princess
[16:08] You: Social events. Over the last year or so, it seems to me that the majority of long-time government leaders do not show up at CDS social events. One could argue in any individual case ... including 1 or 2 of the speakers today ... but the general trend's evident, and has been surprising to me. And, I fear, possibly disappointing to our volunteer organizers and newbies who attend. What do we make of that?
[16:09] ThePrincess Parisi: well, i hope you are not talking about me
[16:09] Patroklus Murakami: i think we *all* need to answer that
[16:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i have and CARE and nu CARE attend these
[16:09] You: i'm just the messenger here :) yes, please all address it
[16:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i go to the dances and teh parties and to the metanomics
[16:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i see brian there
[16:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i see some of us there..
[16:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i am not sure i really know , i think you have done a wonderful job with events
[16:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and i htink anything we do to bring more people in will be good .. The Holiday party we had was well attended
[16:10] ThePrincess Parisi: teh Metanomics fill the sim
[16:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i might not have stats
[16:11] ThePrincess Parisi: but i am there and i see my neighbors
[16:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i do sleep though
[16:11] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[16:11] You: Pat?
[16:11] Patroklus Murakami: i am 100% in support of the events that we have in the CDS now
[16:12] Patroklus Murakami: they add new life to our sims and are superb. we need a round of applause for rose for organising so many of them
[16:12] Ludo Merit claps
[16:12] You: not about me :)
[16:12] Sonja Strom claps
[16:12] You: thanks :)
[16:12] Patroklus Murakami: if i can't attend many of them it's due to RL issues and time zones
[16:12] Jon Seattle cheers
[16:12] Patroklus Murakami: but some citizens do *not* support events and tolerate the fact that money goes to support them
[16:13] ThePrincess Parisi clears her throat
[16:13] ThePrincess Parisi: wow
[16:13] Patroklus Murakami: they're entitled to their view too. let's not forget that we come here for a variety of reasons
[16:13] ThePrincess Parisi: they dont want you to spend your money rose
[16:13] Patroklus Murakami: but we proposed an events budget this year and we support that
[16:13] ThePrincess Parisi: how much Pat?
[16:13] ThePrincess Parisi: how much per event?
[16:13] You: princess... please
[16:14] Patroklus Murakami: not much, enough to get them off the ground
[16:14] You: Sonja, would you like to take a shot at this one?
[16:14] Sonja Strom: Events are important to the social life of the CDS,
[16:14] Sonja Strom: and its attractiveness for everyone,
[16:14] Sonja Strom: like what I was describing before.
[16:15] Sonja Strom: I also feel it is important for our leaders to try to attend them.
[16:15] Sonja Strom: I know Dnate as Chancellor has made an effort to.
[16:15] Sonja Strom: If I am elected to the RA I will try to as much as I can as well.
[16:15] You: thank you
[16:15] Sonja Strom: But, of course, sometimes RL is important too.
[16:16] You: sorry, not trying to cut anyone off :)
[16:16] Sonja Strom: Naturally :)
[16:16] Brian Livingston is Online
[16:16] You: okay, this is a similar question.. again for all candidates
[16:16] You: For all candidates: The CDS depends a whole lot on the work of volunteers. It seems to me we have not always done a good job supporting and recognizing the people who give their time and skills to help us. We are even talking, now, about building sims with hired rather than volunteer labor. Do you see volunteering as important to the future the CDS? If so, how will each of you work to make volunteering more attractive to our citizens and make sure they are recognized for their work? If not, how do you propose to pay for the quality of work the CDS has generally had?
[16:17] You: i'll give you a second to read .. then lets begin with Pat
[16:17] Patroklus Murakami: i don't understand why we would go for hired rather than volunteer labour when that has done such an excellent job in our sims so far
[16:18] Patroklus Murakami: part of the reason for reviving the New Guild was to give our citizens the chance to participate in such large projects
[16:18] Patroklus Murakami: everybody benefits
[16:18] Patroklus Murakami: we get our sims built at frankly very low prices
[16:18] Patroklus Murakami: and people get the experience working on large projects to enable them to look for similar work elsewhere
[16:19] Patroklus Murakami: plus there's the kudos of saying 'i built that' about a key part of the CDS
[16:19] Patroklus Murakami: jamie, we pay for our building
[16:19] Patroklus Murakami: but we don't pay full market rates for the work that has been done
[16:19] Jamie Palisades: ah, thx, Pat
[16:20] Patroklus Murakami: if we did, we would never get a new sim off the ground
[16:20] Patroklus Murakami is experiencing chat lag
[16:20] Jamie Palisades mutters darkly ... volunteer? ... er, didn't the RA vote to pay people for AM? (Sorry)
[16:21] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder what 'competitive tendering' really means here. is it just a recipe for delay and for greater expense?
[16:21] ThePrincess Parisi: Well this again points to the competitive bid process, and .. infact we may get volunteers that agree to do the work for free, but we will have an agreement ahead of time with them.. and we will know what we get.................adn tehy will know what we pay.. and there will be no misunderstanding..so, there is teh competitive bids, which open up the buildging process
[16:21] ThePrincess Parisi: adn no it doesnt have to be slow
[16:21] ThePrincess Parisi: teh thing it does is not stop building by people who are disillusioned that they heard one thing and it didnt happen
[16:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[16:21] Brian Livingston sneaks in
[16:21] ThePrincess Parisi: as far as having funds
[16:21] ThePrincess Parisi: having ..
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: hi poo bear
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: the way that we can have more funds is to add onto the infrastructure
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: in the sims we have
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: CN
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: for example with residential sims
[16:22] Sonja Strom: Welcome Brian ~ ~
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: will give us a lot of tiers
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: adn teh already large lots and public spaces and shops can be seen full
[16:22] Brian Livingston: Forgive my tardiness :/
[16:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and ..
[16:23] Sleazy Writer notes the simplicity in the room has just increased with 72,81 %
[16:23] ThePrincess Parisi: volunteers can be solicitied with
[16:23] ThePrincess Parisi: you guessed it
[16:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont say guided tour again
[16:23] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you .. but we do see a place for volunteers and paid positions
[16:23] You: thanks princess
[16:23] You: brian, Welcome...
[16:24] Sonja Strom: May I answer that also?
[16:24] You: I"ll post this question again so you can think about it while Sonja replies
[16:24] You: For all candidates: The CDS depends a whole lot on the work of volunteers. It seems to me we have not always done a good job supporting and recognizing the people who give their time and skills to help us. We are even talking, now, about building sims with hired rather than volunteer labor. Do you see volunteering as important to the future the CDS? If so, how will each of you work to make volunteering more attractive to our citizens and make sure they are recognized for their work? If not, how do you propose to pay for the quality of work the CDS has generally had?
[16:24] You: Please Sonja!
[16:24] Sonja Strom: It is very important that we keep the CDS a good place for all of us -
[16:24] Sonja Strom: and in which we have fun.
[16:24] Sonja Strom: a place of which we are proud
[16:24] Sonja Strom: We should also recognise and thank our volunteers,
[16:24] Sonja Strom: builders,
[16:25] Sonja Strom: forum administrators,
[16:25] Sonja Strom: scripters,
[16:25] Sonja Strom: event organisers.
[16:25] Sonja Strom: One example of this that I have proposed is to name our roads after people who have made a big difference in the CDS.
[16:26] Sonja Strom: than if we do not.
[16:26] Sonja Strom: If we do such things, we will have more and better volunteers
[16:26] You: Thank you Sonja
[16:26] You: Brian?
[16:26] You: hmmm
[16:27] You: (he's typing)
[16:27] ThePrincess Parisi: cute
[16:27] Brian Livingston: Thank you. The spirit of Voulenteerism is one of the unique and central themes of the C.D.S. At each phase of our project, we have relied exetnsively on voulenteers of all specialities to assist in the building and maitanence of our community
[16:28] Brian Livingston: REcognizing and honoring that spirit is vitalto continuing to foster this benevloence on the behalf of our tallented citizens
[16:29] Brian Livingston: However, it is vital that as we do so, we do som completely. Rather, we must make sure that we dont inadvertently create negative feelings by recognizing some cotnrbutors while overlooking others
[16:30] Brian Livingston: As such, I support tributes to our voulenteers, be they builders, scripters, event hosts, cotnrbutors to our political and social discourse, etc - but am a bit hesitatn to support specific tributes to specific people, for the aforementioned reasoning
[16:31] You: can't tell if you are finished :)
[16:31] Brian Livingston: Regarding payment for work completed, I would prfer to see the C.D.S. built by its citizens
[16:32] Brian Livingston: as it is a direct reflection of the skills, dreams, and desires of our community
[16:33] You: finished?
[16:33] Brian Livingston: I personally have never sought payment for my work forthe C.D.S. as it is my contribution, btu am not against a citiszen reachign agreement with our executive for a cotnracted work.Done
[16:33] You: Thank you Brian!
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps :)
[16:33] Sleazy Writer: applause.
[16:33] You: We are way over time but we have one last question and then we'll have wrap up. Would each of you state the position of your faction regarding Citizen Referenda, please
[16:34] Danton Sideways: Yay Brian!
[16:34] You: Pat?
[16:34] Brian Livingston smiles
[16:34] Jon Seattle: yea :)
[16:35] Patroklus Murakami: gosh, i think i proposed referenda many moons ago. we're actually opposed to them though :)
[16:35] Patroklus Murakami: when this was an issue (many things come and go and come back again) we proposed the idea of citizen commissions to get more input on citizens' views
[16:35] Patroklus Murakami: i still think that's a good way forward
[16:35] Patroklus Murakami: referenda are a blunt instrument
[16:35] Patroklus Murakami: and the question is always the most important thing
[16:36] Patroklus Murakami: 'have you stopped beating your dog yet?' how do you answer that?
[16:36] Patroklus Murakami: bias is the big thing
[16:36] Patroklus Murakami: we favour the commissions as the way to get real involvement
[16:36] Patroklus Murakami: referenda are a gimmick in comparison
[16:36] Patroklus Murakami: that's all :)
[16:36] You: Thank you Pat, Princess?
[16:38] You: can't tell, is she frozen?
[16:38] ThePrincess Parisi: In fact we also think that a direct referenda is something that can be manipulated easily by the questions and teh way they are put forward. But if this si something that the citizens want looked at again i think .. and i do not have a party stance at this time, but we can gladly post it on the forums.. i believe that we can work together to make some compromise about this, if people are supporting this i would want to know why. IT is a delicate situation becuase if exectuted incorrectly it has the abilty to make the whole system mute
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: MOOT
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: so indeed there may be a way to have a referenda
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: to get a RA ovote
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: or commision
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: to look at an issue
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and getting input
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and i do agree we need a much better way of collecteing data
[16:39] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a way to get people to get information to us.. if they choose
[16:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but the reality is all people dont want to participate in govt , but we need avenues for them to still give their opinion
[16:40] ThePrincess Parisi: and let us know what they want. Nu CARE
[16:40] ThePrincess Parisi: listens
[16:40] ThePrincess Parisi: to what our party members want
[16:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and we will put forward legistlation on thier behalf
[16:41] ThePrincess Parisi: so if people want to have a say ingovt.. we will listen to them
[16:41] You: Thank you, Princess. Sonja?
[16:41] Sonja Strom: The DPU places a lot of importance on community participation.
[16:42] Sonja Strom: The DPU platform says:
[16:42] Sonja Strom: A Vision of the Future the DPU calls for: Listening to the Public: In addition our support of government openness and accessibility measures, we support polling and canvassing the population. This can be done in-world or through use of the forum polling feature in the CDS forum. We want the views of *ALL* citizens heard, considered and respected.
[16:42] Sonja Strom: It is good to get a sense of the community's feelings, but we are also a representative democracy.
[16:43] Sonja Strom: Binding referenda can be a valuable too, but should be used only for major decisions,
[16:43] Sonja Strom: such as directions the CDS will take into the future.
[16:43] Sonja Strom: ty
[16:43] You: thank you Sonja. Brian?
[16:43] Brian Livingston sttarts typing...
[16:45] Brian Livingston: It is incredibly important that the governemnt of the C.D.S. remain as responsive as possible to the citizens, however I do not feel that referenda are a viable option.
[16:46] You: okay?
[16:46] Brian Livingston: That being said, we do support reaching out to our citizens with a logical use of committees to brign togeather citizens who are interested in a given topic
[16:47] Brian Livingston: to collcet related information to provide teh R.A. with a more balanced and complete view of a given issue, including community opinions regarding the topic at hand
[16:48] Brian Livingston is finished
[16:48] Brian Livingston: Lastly, I am intrgiued personally by the idea of introducing a method for citizens to vote on Proposed COnstituitional amendments, given thir impact on the core CDS principles
[16:48] Brian Livingston: Adding this will allow for greater participation by some citizens but will create increased and unneccessary complexity for our system.
[16:48] You: Thank you Brian
[16:48] Danton Sideways: applause
[16:49] You: Thank you all for your great questions. Each faction will now have 3 minutes to wrap up
[16:49] You: again we start with the CDSF.. Patroklus?
[16:49] Patroklus Murakami: my final request is this:
[16:49] Patroklus Murakami: put the CSDF as your first choice for the RA
[16:49] Patroklus Murakami: or second place if another party is your first choice
[16:49] Patroklus Murakami: we had our first chance to lead the CDS as the largest minority in the last RA
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: and we achieved a lot
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: we initiated the Government Question Hours
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: we proposed a budget for events
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: and we established licences and a content archivist to preserve the CDS intellectual property
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: we enacted electoral reform to give voters more choice
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: we would like to show you what we're really capable of with a majority in the new one our programme has vision and policies
[16:50] Patroklus Murakami: check it out at http://cds-social-democrats.org/platform.html we want to promote accessibility, responsibility and activity
[16:51] Patroklus Murakami: alone among the factions we have held open meetings every week for almost two years we do what we say we will do
[16:51] Patroklus Murakami: we don't just claim to be democratic and transparent, we carry out our activities in a transparent and democratic fashion
[16:51] Patroklus Murakami: a vote for us is vote for vision and the hard graft that makes the vision into reality
[16:51] Patroklus Murakami: thank you for listening
[16:51] You: Thank you Pat
[16:51] You: DPU is next, Sonja?
[16:52] Sonja Strom: The DPU is a party with a fairly long history in the CDS,
[16:52] Sonja Strom: and one that has accomplished a lot for the community.
[16:52] Sonja Strom: It has done this in a spirit of service,
[16:52] Sonja Strom: to help the community to be better and more enjoyable for its participants than otherwise.
[16:53] Sonja Strom: It is committed to cooperate with the representatives of different factions,
[16:53] Sonja Strom: and priorities of all the CDS.
[16:53] Sonja Strom: to accommodate as much as is practical the diverse concerns
[16:54] Sonja Strom: We understand that democracy requires listening, acceptance and flexibility.
[16:54] Sonja Strom: We are working to maintain the CDS as something of value
[16:54] Sonja Strom: and to SL.
[16:54] Sonja Strom: to all of us
[16:55] You: Thank you Sonja
[16:55] Sonja Strom: Please think of the DPU when you are deciding who you will support for the next Representative Assembly.
[16:55] Flyingroc Chung: yay!
[16:55] Sleazy Writer: applause.
[16:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[16:55] Lilith Ivory: applause
[16:55] You: NuCare, ThePrincess?
[16:56] ThePrincess Parisi: Again I would like to thank everyone for being here to support our wonderful community.
[16:56] ThePrincess Parisi: IT is a community built on a system of factions.
[16:56] ThePrincess Parisi: With a potential to split us ..
[16:57] ThePrincess Parisi: I challenge each of us to think of ourselves as first of all.. Citizens of CDS
[16:57] ThePrincess Parisi: we are a community first
[16:57] ThePrincess Parisi: and factions second
[16:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and NuCARE is poised to continue on this path by making sure that we cooperate with the other factions to maintain our communtiy
[16:58] ThePrincess Parisi: Together
[16:58] ThePrincess Parisi: all of us
[16:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so we can play here
[16:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so we can live here
[16:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and build on the success we ahve acheived
[16:59] ThePrincess Parisi: but that we are proud.. to say
[16:59] ThePrincess Parisi: Please vote for NuCARE
[16:59] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[16:59] ThePrincess Parisi: alwasy
[16:59] You: Thank you Princess
[16:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn appluads!
[16:59] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you!
[17:00] You: Finally, and let's give him a little leeway, Simplicity, Brian?
[17:00] Sleazy Writer applauds @ Princess
[17:00] ThePrincess Parisi: :)
[17:01] Brian Livingston: Thank you Rose and my fellow citizens for coming here today to participate in a treuly extraordinary event in Second Life, the exchange of political discourse in preparation for our own free elections.
[17:03] Brian Livingston: The Simplicity Party is a rather young faction, having been active for just over a year at this point. From the beginning and into the future, our platform has revolved around one thing: creating an open, accessable government that is responsive to the needs and wants of our community.
[17:05] Brian Livingston: During my tterm i nthe Representative Assembly, I have worked with the other fine representatives to encourage electoral reform, but in a manner that would not radically complicate our system.
[17:06] Brian Livingston: Simplification of the C.D.S. Code has remained a top priority that i am continuign to work towards. This includes repealing obsolete codes, introducign sunset clauses where approrpaite, and always striving for clarity and simplicity in both the language and execution of our laws
[17:08] You: still typing?
[17:08] Brian Livingston: If we are brought back to then ext R.A. term, we will continue to work to make sure that our government is as open as possible and works best to serve the community, while remaining as compact and logical as possible.
[17:08] Brian Livingston: almsot done..
[17:08] Sonja Strom: :-)
[17:09] You: :)
[17:09] Brian Livingston is done ;)
[17:10] Brian Livingston: Again, I would liek to apologize for my tardiness and thank you all for coming today to hear a bit more about each of our platforms. I encourage you all to vote for the factions you msot beleive in and I hope that the Simplicity Party will be one such faction. Again, Thank you
[17:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yay Brian!
[17:10] Flyingroc Chung: *claps*
[17:10] You: Thank you all for coming, and thank you candidates for giving your time and efforts in support of this democracy. Everyone, Remember polls open at noon on Saturday. I'll post thetranscript of these debates on the CDS Forums later tonight.

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Re: Text of CDS Election Debate, January11, 2008

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