Sim 4 Discussion Thread

[Patroklus Murakami]

We didn't have time to cover this issue at last night's RA meeting (we had a very packed agenda) so this item is being kicked off in the forums. The "In-theme" enablement act suggests the following questions, we should also consider as well whether to purchase sim 4 (and 5).

Phase I: PREPARATION
In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.

Please post your thoughts here.

[Bromo Ivory]

I don't know which type of SIM sells faster, but I would love to see a SIM with primarily affordable plots (we just completed a SIM with a bunch of mixed plots) - such as 512's or double prim 256's.

I fantasize about the second half of NFS...

[Beathan]

I would like to see us bring in two new sims. I'm less concerned with the theme -- but if we bring in 2, it would make sense to expand both NF and CN.

I would like one sim to be our equivalent of "high density residential" to leave avenues for immigration open. Personally, I would like to see us have no less than 10% available residential lots at any time -- so that we always have a place for people to come in and join us immediately.

I would like the other sim to be dedicated commercial/event/activity space. One problem (I think) with commerce in the CDS is that it is spot-zoned and centralized in each sim -- but not centralized in the CDS in general. If we had a major commercial area (a commercial sim), we would get more bang for our advertising buck and could create a destination for commercial traffic.

Beathan

[Sonja Strom]

My only concerns are:

1) I would like the CDS to eventually have mountains. To me it seems most appropriate for them to be related in some way to the city of Neufreistadt. On the east side of the city would work best, I think. That said, it would be possible to have the city continue to the east of where it is now, and have mountains go up to the east of there.

2) It would seem really odd to me for Neufreistadt to be a walled city at the top of a small Alpine island in the middle of the ocean. This is the way it will be if we follow the current Master Plan without any changes
(see http://neufreistadt.info/images/Masterp ... y_copy.jpg).

3) Both of these point to my overall concern, that I would like the terrain of the CDS to approximate the way landscapes naturally flow in RL - like a model, even if not of any particular place in the real world.

4) No further Seven Dwarves Bridges should be built in the CDS. In fact, the existing number of them should be reduced.

One idea I have is, we could perhaps have an open area that could be used as a sandbox.

[symokurka]

In the event we choose expansion of CN i would suggest a large "sea area" with seaside roman villas, some beach and a roman port for commercial activities....

[Dnate Mars]

Just my thought, I would love to see Cn be expanded. With the 4 corner design for the city center, we could have the commercial center some want.

[symokurka]

About residential areas.Why do we "need" a high density residential extension of CN?
Are we sure that a high density Sim is "more appealing" than a diversified one?
Do we know the actual level of satisfaction of CN, NFS and AM inhabitants?
Is population more stable in a low density rather than in a high density area?
Do we have or do we plan any market survey on these subjects?
Does environmental and architectural quality concern anybody in CDS?
Well, as a newbie I'm legitimated to expose my doubts and pose some questions.

About commercial. Well I absolutely agree with Beathan.

And, by the way, Sonja, I love mountains too, but I think sooner or later we'll need some "real" sea.

[Sonja Strom]

As I understand it, the RA has already approved a new sim being added to the eastern side of Colonia Nova.
To see what I am talking about, you can go to the RA Meeting transcript from March 2 at:
http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... +2%2C+2008.
About half the way through this transcript the RA passed “Option 1: a sim to the E of CN.” I do not see anywhere there that the RA specifically voted to have this new sim continue the Roman theme of CN, but this certainly would make sense and I believe was everyone’s intention. Earlier in the discussion we had talked about this being the concept, and in regard to this specific proposal I did say, “We know that we will want a theme appropriate to CN next to it…” and no one disagreed with me. Then, with regard to Moon’s request for a “min-max number of residents, min-max size of plots,” towards the bottom of this transcript the RA also passed “Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total.”

In this meeting Moon Adamant also asked the RA to decide on “…things like what is the percentage of public space, if any infrastructure should be present…” The meeting was closed before the discussion got that far. If helpful, these items could be placed on a future RA agenda.

I am proud to have supported this expansion, for several reasons. Not the least of them is that right now there appears to be more demand for people to have a residence in the CDS than there are properties available. Personally I would not choose the word "need" for high density residential expansion, but I believe there is a wide consensus among the factions that this is the most desired direction for the CDS to take. So far as I know there is only one citizen who has been completely against it, Salzie Sachertorte.

I see no reason for this new sim not to extend to the sea in some way, and it seems like a good idea for it to do that.

Personally I do not know if any market or satisfaction surveys have been made of the citizens of the CDS. However, we do have this open forum and hold elections every six months. These sources give us some idea of the feelings and opinions in the community.

Symo, what do you mean by "environmental quality"? - the attractiveness of its appearance?

[Salzie Sachertorte]

I am proud to have supported this expansion, for several reasons. Not the least of them is that right now there appears to be more demand for people to have a residence in the CDS than there are properties available. Personally I would not choose the word "need" for high density residential expansion, but I believe there is a wide consensus among the factions that this is the most desired direction for the CDS to take. So far as I know there is only one citizen who has been completely against it, Salzie Sachertorte.

*sigh* I am not against new sims, I am against expanding when we do not have our house in order, as evidenced by the recent RAquake. I see individuals who have strong ideas as to how they would like the CDS to evolve, and they push for their visions. Nothing wrong with that, but there seems to be no common vision as to what the CDS stands for and where it is headed.

I believe that is largest challenge facing the CDS. I feel it needs to be discussed and resolved before we engage in more construction.

[Beathan]

Salzie --

I think i understand your point, but why can't we just blindly forge on ahead and see where we end up? That is, why can't we let our community evolve organically based on our growth? We build our sims, see who comes, and become whatever we want based on who we are (who the citizens are) at any given time. Real life -- and RL communities (and nations) work like this.

We have the means to define and redefine ourselves whenever we choose (democratic processes). I think we have the community coherence to survive far worse than the RAquake. (Indeed, we have survived far worse than the RAquake -- there was Ulrikaquake; then the JAquake; then CAREquake. In fact, it could be argued that are quakes are getting less and more localized ... not a bad thing. One day we may grow up and grow out of quakes altogether. On the other hand, in the words of one of my favorite poets -- it is also possible that this shaking keeps us steady.)

Let's worry less about what we are and what we should be -- and worry more about being it, and being it better than we have been.
Beathan

[Sonja Strom]

How would we know when we do have our house in order?

[Salzie Sachertorte]

How would we know when we do have our house in order?

When we have developed a unified vision of what the CDS is, where we want it to go and how we plan on getting there, a/k/a strategic planning.

Once you have accomplished this, individuals can see what the CDS stands for (the vision thing) and whether or not they adhere to the vision, and how they can work to support that vision, within the CDS.

[Beathan]

Salzie --

I have added a specific "strategic planning" discission period to this week's RA agenda.

Beathan

[Arria Perreault]

Then, with regard to Moon’s request for a “min-max number of residents, min-max size of plots,” towards the bottom of this transcript the RA also passed “Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total.”

I agree with this expansion. I just would like to be sure that this sim will have the same quality than Colonia Nova. I am surprised to see that 50 plots will be planed. I try to figure out how will be this roman extension. If we extend the theme, the urban density can only be in the zone inside the walls of Colonia Nova. Usually a road leaving a city has the graves along, small but interesting monuments. In the roman countryside, we usually have villae. The villae are our farms: big houses occupied by a patrician family. This part can be very luxurious, with mosaics and paintings. The wealthiest villae have even private therms. Around we have garden and fields. This sim cannot be different then the Rhenus valley of Colonia Nova. So it hard to imagine such villae on plot that have 512 or 1024.
If we imagine that Colonia has a east quartier outside the walls, like in Pompei, we have to imagine a urban density. The model is the urban villa, like my domus arriana, with the two little shops on the street. The domus arriana is the half of a urban villa: the part with the peristyle lacks. At least a urban villa (a small one) need 1024. Anyway it is an evidence that the plots cannot be square. This will not function for small urban villa, wich are narrow and long. The biggest were square, but much bigger.
The RA doesn't seem to have a strong knowledge in roman urbanism and architecture. If I don't have doubt with the theme, I strongly doubt that we can set 50 plots and keep a high quality of architecture on this sim. Why 50? We have also to give to the future inhabitants of this sim a good quality of life. In the other sims, the density of habitants is less. Why people on this new sims have to be so clothes each others. If we will more citizen, we build more sims. If I am well informed, people are more interested with big plots where they can install more furnitures.

[Rose Springvale]

agrees with Arria.