What CDS Chancellors Should Do (but Haven't)

[Jon Seattle]

Hi FR,

First off, I have wanted a sandbox sim since we first started discussing expanding into CN. We, however, are not yet able to support having a sim that does not generate revenue.

Well, thats great! But can we start with some sandbox land first? We need not wait until we have an entire sim.

Doesn't the land under the platz work anymore? Used to be where the guild built stuff... Unfortunately, both CN and NFS are really high-prim places, so it's really hard to set aside enough prim space. Maybe next sim we can set aside land specifically as a sandbox.

That was withdrawn from use just after I arrived actually. Both because it is very cramped and because of the prim issues. It has been used for other purposes (most recently as a sports arena ), as far as I know Dianne was last to use it for building.

As for recognizing volunteers, I am frankly wary of official government recognition of volunteer work. It can very quickly turn into currency for paying people to do work, and thus "volunteering" becomes meaningless. It can also cause a lot of rancour, when some people who think they (or their friends) should be recognized are passed over for someone else. If you are passionate about giving people their due recognition, start an organization outside of the government to do specifically that, give out a yearly Zugzwang award for contributions to the CDS or something.

I very much disagree for three reasons:

1. The CDS can easily delegate the decision to, say the guild, if it wishes. But providing recognition helps people to feel their work is appreciated and motivates people to give more of their time. To do otherwise impoverishes the CDS because fewer people will offer their time.

2. When someone does a creative work they have the right to attribution. We could opt for a system where every bridge and building includes a sign telling who made it, or even better we could have a single monument (one in each sim) listing who contributed. How does Moon sign her work on terrain or plots? Creators do have the rights to sign their artwork. Right now that right is denied. And one of the probable consequences of not allowing artists to sign their work is to lower the quality of the contributions.

3. The CDS is ordering the projects and appointing volunteers to do them. To do that and then tell, for example, the volunteers who built AM we want you to give us the your work and license and then we are not even going to organize a celebration or construct a monument with your names seems very mean-spirited.

All of this also applies to people who set up a web site, organize events, write software, create a tour, etc. Doing this through private channels only means the wrong people are offering recognition, and sends a message that the people who benefit do not care. And then a private organization (who knows how controlled) is likely to be even more problematic.

So in summary, by not organizing and recognizing volunteer contributions we are leaving CDS poorer, over the long term lowering the quality of contributions, and asking for things and not saying thanks. If you are concerned about the "government" being involved (really just the cooperative, not the government in the usual sense of the word) then part of the process can be delegated.

[Sudane Erato]

2. When someone does a creative work they have the right to attribution. We could opt for a system where every bridge and building includes a sign telling who made it, or even better we could have a single monument (one in each sim) listing who contributed. How does Moon sign her work on terrain or plots? Creators do have the rights to sign their artwork. Right now that right is denied. And one of the probable consequences of not allowing artists to sign their work is to lower the quality of the contributions.

A point of information here that everyone should be aware of. The name of the creator of every object in SL is embedded in that object, and can be seen easily by right clicking on the object and selecting "Edit". I my experience in SL, people are much more likely to click on things than they are to read signs.

Sudane.................

[Jon Seattle]

2. When someone does a creative work they have the right to attribution. We could opt for a system where every bridge and building includes a sign telling who made it, or even better we could have a single monument (one in each sim) listing who contributed. How does Moon sign her work on terrain or plots? Creators do have the rights to sign their artwork. Right now that right is denied. And one of the probable consequences of not allowing artists to sign their work is to lower the quality of the contributions.

A point of information here that everyone should be aware of. The name of the creator of every object in SL is embedded in that object, and can be seen easily by right clicking on the object and selecting "Edit". I my experience in SL, people are much more likely to click on things than they are to read signs.

While this capability exists, I would point out:

1. I and I think many people do not click on things that are part of their normal surrounding. Very very few people even know who built the public spaces in our sims. I've had to tell about ten people that Moon, for example, built the NFS bridge.

2. No one at all clicks on every part of a structure built by several people. I can think of many such.

3. A good chunk of many of our projects are not "objects" in the usual sense. They are nevertheless design.

[Bromo Ivory]

2. When someone does a creative work they have the right to attribution. We could opt for a system where every bridge and building includes a sign telling who made it, or even better we could have a single monument (one in each sim) listing who contributed. How does Moon sign her work on terrain or plots? Creators do have the rights to sign their artwork. Right now that right is denied. And one of the probable consequences of not allowing artists to sign their work is to lower the quality of the contributions.

A point of information here that everyone should be aware of. The name of the creator of every object in SL is embedded in that object, and can be seen easily by right clicking on the object and selecting "Edit". I my experience in SL, people are much more likely to click on things than they are to read signs.

While this capability exists, I would point out:

1. I and I think many people do not click on things that are part of their normal surrounding. Very very few people even know who built the public spaces in our sims. I've had to tell about ten people that Moon, for example, built the NFS bridge.

2. No one at all clicks on every part of a structure built by several people. I can think of many such.

3. A good chunk of many of our projects are not "objects" in the usual sense. They are nevertheless design.

Jon - Princess has proposed just such a bill - to create some sort of monument to honor the builders and creators of CDS.

[Cindy Ecksol]

1. I and I think many people do not click on things that are part of their normal surrounding. Very very few people even know who built the public spaces in our sims. I've had to tell about ten people that Moon, for example, built the NFS bridge.

2. No one at all clicks on every part of a structure built by several people. I can think of many such.

3. A good chunk of many of our projects are not "objects" in the usual sense. They are nevertheless design.

Hmmm. Actually right-clicking to see who made something was one of the first tricks I learned in SL. Whenever I see something interesting, I'll check it out. If someone really feels the need for a monument to the builders, that would be fine I suppose, but I love the fact that when I create something it's automatically "signed" and anyone who cares to can come find me to talk about it. That's more motivation for me than a monument would ever be. And I definitely DO NOT want to live in a place where every bridge, building, and room has a plaque saying who made it. I can go visit a synagogue in RL if I want that experience....

Cindy

[Leon]

Thank you for that lovely image CIndy.

Made me chuckle as erecting shrines in SL is just so self indulgent

Leon

[Flyingroc Chung]

All of this also applies to people who set up a web site, organize events, write software, create a tour, etc. Doing this through private channels only means the wrong people are offering recognition, and sends a message that the people who benefit do not care. And then a private organization (who knows how controlled) is likely to be even more problematic.

Who would you exclude from recognition? I do not know of a single citizen of the CDS past or present who has not contributed positively. But if everybody gets a gold star, what's the point. Perhaps we can recognize only the person who has made the *most* significant contribution--how does one do that, should it be moon, or gwyn, or sudane, or me? (it obviously should be me, but that's beside the point) Or should we divide the populace into two classes: those who contribute, and those who don't?

[Jon Seattle]

Who would you exclude from recognition? I do not know of a single citizen of the CDS past or present who has not contributed positively. But if everybody gets a gold star, what's the point. Perhaps we can recognize only the person who has made the *most* significant contribution--how does one do that, should it be moon, or gwyn, or sudane, or me? (it obviously should be me, but that's beside the point) Or should we divide the populace into two classes: those who contribute, and those who don't?

Its an interesting point, but it is not different from the problem of who to pay for work, if we do that instead. Clearly we need to have some categories of contribution, but in practice that is not so difficult to implement. And yes, everyone who does some serious work, does deserve recognition.

* The New Guild has a criteria written in to its charter: ten hours of work on project each quarter. If we got that much from each citizen the CDS project would be very very wealthy indeed. If we don't try for that we will be that much poorer.

* There are also a very short list of people who deserve lifetime recognition, for example Sudane, Moon, Gwyn, and I would include you FR. Probably others.

You can rail about setting criteria, but every organization on earth must do so. Shall we also hand out Ph.D. degrees in Computer Science to everyone who has written a program? Do you value your own achievements?

[Sudane Erato]

There are also a very short list of people who deserve lifetime recognition, for example Sudane, Moon, Gwyn, and I would include you FR. Probably others.

I respectfully decline such "recognition". Having a street named for me in NFS (by Ulrika Zugzwang, no less) is quite enough recognition, thank you.

Sudane.....................

[Jon Seattle]

There are also a very short list of people who deserve lifetime recognition, for example Sudane, Moon, Gwyn, and I would include you FR. Probably others.

I respectfully decline such "recognition". Having a street named for me in NFS (by Ulrika Zugzwang, no less) is quite enough recognition, thank you.

Makes my point exactly. What about the others who have contributed?

It amazes me that some of our leadership is so ultra-libertarian that even things are are commonly done by professional societies (the ACM for example) are way way too radical for this crowd. How do we signal to the CDS that contributions are appreciated? Or maybe the fact of the matter is that volunteer contributions are not at all appreciated.

http://campus.acm.org/public/pressroom/ ... awards.cfm

As the old saying goes: no good act should go unpunished..

[Cindy Ecksol]

It amazes me that some of our leadership is so ultra-libertarian that even things are are commonly done by professional societies (the ACM for example) are way way too radical for this crowd. How do we signal to the CDS that contributions are appreciated? Or maybe the fact of the matter is that volunteer contributions are not at all appreciated.

http://campus.acm.org/public/pressroom/ ... awards.cfm

As the old saying goes: no good act should go unpunished..

Um, Jon? I don't know how it is for you, but for me just the pleasure of making a thing (especially a thing that benefits an entire community) and seeing people use it is more than enough reward. Perhaps we could have a little discussion about our motivations for being in SL and for choosing CDS in particular. I'll go first: I love the opportunity SL gives me to be creative in ways I can't be in RL. And I chose CDS in part because I perceived that those who have been building it over the last several years were open to others joining in that process. I expect to meet and get to know a lot of interesting and creative people, to learn a lot and to have some fun that gives me a chance to exercise my creativity not just artistically, but socially, managerially, and in a zillion other ways, some of them unique to SL. To put it in more concrete terms, if someone put me in charge of building fountains in CDS and over time I created a bunch that were appreciated by everyone who saw them, I'd be perfectly thrilled and not need any more recognition than that. If I were you and Moon and Sudane, watching people enjoying and using productively the spaces I'd created, I can't imagine how else I'd need to be recognized. When I've managed to make it to Guild meetings, I've heard discussions about re-swizzling spaces that AREN'T working to make them more attractive -- that's the other side of the creative process, fixing things that are not useful, admired, productive, etc. I love all of that, including the process, and that's why I'm here.

Although I'm sure there are those who feel like they need something more formal in the way of recognition, my perception is that there are many more among the CDS builders who have done (are doing) this merely for the fun of it. Certainly there are plenty of opportunities to "build for pay" out there -- payment is the ultimate recognition of effort, after all. So those who are still here building just for fun must be.....well, having fun!

I tell you what we can do, though. You make up a list of everyone you think needs "recognition." Then we'll go around and ask them privately how they'd like to be recognized and ask the RA to give them whatever recognition they want. Or maybe the RA could just authorize a nice party and pay for some good music and the LRA and the Chancellor can stand up and read off their names as "Heroes of the CDS." Everyone there will applaud, all the honorees will say "Aw, shucks, it was nothing!" and we'd all feel good about ourselves. Or....well, maybe you can come up with a better idea. But for heaven's sake, let's stop whining about this (and other issues) and DO something about it if it's so important! And if it's NOT so important, let's just drop it -- it's boring!

Cindy

[Jon Seattle]

Its interesting to see how the opponents of this proposal all ran to focus on the recognition aspect -- something I consider a very minor aspect of what I proposed. But apparently it is something that some people disagree with me on.

1. The Chancellor should be organizing projects. I can think of a lot of things that need doing. In particular I once proposed creating a "democracy in a box" for SL communities. It should also do this in conjunction with NGOs.

2. The Chancellor should establish a registry of people, self-reported skills, and skills they would like to acquire. Projects should draw from these. And we can use the registry to keep track of what skills are available.

3. The Chancellor should not discriminate on project management the basis of who is in his clique or political group. I see this happen all too often. A number of very glaring examples of this, and it is really not something we ought to do.

4. We ought to have space devoted to builders and building.

[Cindy Ecksol]

Its interesting to see how the opponents of this proposal all ran to focus on the recognition aspect -- something I consider a very minor aspect of what I proposed. But apparently it is something that some people disagree with me on.

Well, Jon....it seems as though not being recognized is at the heart of your discontent. We followed after you in this I think -- no one else was leading the way. YOU consider it important enough to have an extended discussion -- why should we disrespect your feelings on this?

1. The Chancellor should be organizing projects. I can think of a lot of things that need doing. In particular I once proposed creating a "democracy in a box" for SL communities. It should also do this in conjunction with NGOs.

I'm a little confused by this -- seems like 3 sentences that don't go together. Can you explain how "democracy in a box" is related to "The Chancellor should be organizing projects?" And what is the reference for "It" in the third sentence?

2. The Chancellor should establish a registry of people, self-reported skills, and skills they would like to acquire. Projects should draw from these. And we can use the registry to keep track of what skills are available.

A registry of skills sounds like a nice idea. But why should this be the Chancellor's job? Seems more like a Guild thing to me, especially since the Guild is talking about setting "certification" skill levels. I'm sure this is not the first time something like this has come up -- what has the prior discussion been about it in the Guild? Why has no one taken the initiative to establish such a registry? Doesn't seem like rocket science or even political dynamite. Just a good idea that shouldn't take too much of anyone's time or energy...

3. The Chancellor should not discriminate on project management the basis of who is in his clique or political group. I see this happen all too often. A number of very glaring examples of this, and it is really not something we ought to do.

The first sentence is just a truism, something that none of us could possible disagree with. The rest of the statement is opinion, and I'm not sure the "glaring examples" of favoritism that you perceive are apparent to us all. Can you share with us some of those items where you think there was some sort of discrimination? Please be specific about why you think a particular person put in charge of something was not qualified, and who you think was better qualified (and willing) yet excluded from consideration.

4. We ought to have space devoted to builders and building.

Hey, good idea! I hear the Guild is going to be working on a plan for a new sim -- maybe they could propose some dedicated building workspace as part of that plan. Of course the RA might veto that, but we'll never know unless we give it the old college try...

Cindy

[Beathan]

1. The Chancellor should be organizing projects. I can think of a lot of things that need doing. In particular I once proposed creating a "democracy in a box" for SL communities. It should also do this in conjunction with NGOs.

Yes, this is true -- but we have special offices for that. Rather than saying that the Chancellor should organize projects, I think we should say that the Chancellor should coordinate projects passed by the RA or undertaken by the Guild, the NGOs, MOCA and other project-oriented offices or organizations.

2. The Chancellor should establish a registry of people, self-reported skills, and skills they would like to acquire. Projects should draw from these. And we can use the registry to keep track of what skills are available.

Excellent proposal -- but why should this be a Chancellor function and not a Guild function. This project seems perfectly suited to the Guild. Further, I don't really like the idea of Chancellory lists of citizens.

3. The Chancellor should not discriminate on project management the basis of who is in his clique or political group. I see this happen all too often. A number of very glaring examples of this, and it is really not something we ought to do.

I agree with this. I also agree that Moon, in particular, seems to have been mistreated -- but she is far too nice to complain. (Before I am flamed on this -- let me quickly point out that I have no real clue what I am talking about, as I have not been a major participant in the guild. However, the rumor has been around for a while -- and it has not been dispelled.)

Jon Seattle wrote:4. We ought to have space devoted to builders and building.

Hey, good idea! I hear the Guild is going to be working on a plan for a new sim -- maybe they could propose some dedicated building workspace as part of that plan. Of course the RA might veto that, but we'll never know unless we give it the old college try...

I agree. Although the bill that passed the RA has a lot size component, I would like to see the number of lots control over lot size, with the remaining land set aside as sandbox built (in theme) to look like a Gladiator training field. (What I mean by this is that the sim should have 50 1024 lots. That should leave about a quarter of the sim (14336 meters) for other uses. Assuming that roads must be built, I think we should still have at least 1/8 (8196) for sandbox/gladiator training field area.) Doable?

Beathan

[Flyingroc Chung]

You can rail about setting criteria, but every organization on earth must do so. Shall we also hand out Ph.D. degrees in Computer Science to everyone who has written a program? Do you value your own achievements?

I value my achievements whether or not I get a piece of paper saying I achieved something; getting the PhD in itself is not an achievement, doing interesting research, and growing as a shcolar is. In an ideal world, we should not hand out Ph.D. degrees at all. Working at Microsoft, I know a *lot* of people who do not have a Ph.D. in computer science, but deserve it more than me. When I was still working as a teaching assistant, the *worst* part of my job was passing judgment on people--who to pass and who not to--*every* kind of metric excludes some of the deserving, and includes some who are not.

It amazes me that some of our leadership is so ultra-libertarian that even things are are commonly done by professional societies (the ACM for example) are way way too radical for this crowd.

In fact, I would say the idea is socialist, rather than libertarian: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."